IP Innovators
🎙️ Real Stories. Evolving Practice. The Future of IP Law
IP Innovators features in-depth conversations with leading patent practitioners about their career journeys and how technological advances—from automation to AI—are reshaping the way they practice law every day.
Hosted by IP journalist Steve Brachmann, each episode offers candid insights from attorneys on the front lines of innovation, sharing how they adapt, grow, and lead in a rapidly changing IP landscape.
📌 IP Innovators is proudly sponsored by DeepIP – your trusted AI patent assistant.
IP Innovators
Counting ROI or Chasing Hype: Stephanie Curcio on the True Test of AI in Patents
In this episode of IP Innovators, host Steve Brachmann sits down with Stephanie Curcio, CEO and co-founder of NL Patent, to explore how AI has evolved from concept-based prior art search to touching every stage of the patent lifecycle. Stephanie reflects on her journey from patent prosecution to legal tech founder and what she’s learned from being an early mover in AI for IP.
She also digs into the real ROI of AI tools, why efficiency isn’t the only metric that matters, and how firms should think about ethics, security, and the quiet comeback of the build vs. buy debate. From sneaky “AI features” in legacy tools to modular tech stacks and in-house workflows, Stephanie shares a candid view of where AI in patent practice is today—and where it’s headed next.
👩💼 About the Guest:
Stephanie Curcio is the CEO and co-founder of NL Patent, an AI-native platform for searching and analyzing patent data. A former patent attorney, she has held leadership roles within the American Intellectual Property Law Association’s Emerging Technologies Committee and serves on the advisory board of IP Watchdog.
🔧 Sponsored by DeepIP — your patent intelligence platform, from idea to enforcement.
🛎️ Subscribe to hear more real stories, evolving practice, and the future of IP law.
Hello. My name is Steve Brachmann, and welcome to IP Innovators, where we profile the careers of patent attorneys and explore how technology and legal practice has advanced with time. This podcast is brought to you by Deep IP, the first trusted AI-powered patent assistant integrated into Microsoft Word. Deep IP helps patent professionals draft better patents faster and analyze office actions to craft responses that win. By handling tedious tasks, Deep IP frees you to focus on delivering higher quality work and greater value to your clients. Fully customizable, it adapts to your style. So it sounds like you, only quicker and sharper. Trusted by top law firms and in-house teams across the US and Europe.
Steve Brachmann:Today on IP Innovators, I am joined by Stephanie Curcio, CEO and co-founder of NL Patent. Stephanie, thanks for taking the time to talk with us today.
Stephanie Curcio:Thanks so much for having me.
Steve Brachmann:So can you start and take us through a little bit of how you got interested in AI and patent law? I know you don't have the same pathway into it as a lot of our other guests have had on the show.
Stephanie Curcio:Yes, absolutely. So this is a long and winding journey. I hope you have a drink in hand, preferably something stronger than coffee to hear this story. So it all started, of course, you know, went to law school, went through the legal education, graduated, got a great job at a great firm practicing in IP law, more specifically in patent law, focusing on patent preparation and prosecution, you know, young, eager, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to hit the ground running. And, you know, out of left field comes an introduction to AI-based systems. And having a technical background in the life sciences, I was not exposed to any AI capabilities before this encounter. This was way pre-ChatGPT. So it was not in the mainstream at all. And I was quite interested in the way that AI can understand and interpret language. And of course, as lawyers, we're working with a lot of language. So it piqued my interest that I thought, huh, this is something that can be very helpful as a lawyer. And when my friends started to kind of tinker around in the patent space and build a tool to research patent data, um, my ears sort of perked up. That's super interesting. I'm working in this field and patents are written in language. Seems like there's probably a better way to search and analyze patent documents because the technology is nuanced. There's a million ways you can describe some things.
Steve Brachmann:Can you give a sense of what they were using AI to work on with patent data at this time?
Stephanie Curcio:Um it was a search platform.
Steve Brachmann:OK, OK.
Stephanie Curcio:So searching patent documents.
Steve Brachmann:Um like prior art search?
Stephanie Curcio:Yeah, prior art search. So finding patent documents that are similar to some technology area when the technology area is sort of nebulous and difficult to describe in words. And as you know, or many people listening will know, uh, patents are written in a purposefully sort of obfuscated way. Because when you're trying to describe a simple invention, you want to maximize the scope of protection for your client rather than narrow it, narrowly couching it in one particular field. So by virtue of this process, patent drafters will use um more nuanced language to describe something that might be quite simple to describe in layman terms. So all of these factors taken together made patent documents really difficult to search manually, i.e., through keywords or other strategies. So the system could search patent documents based on concepts. Super interesting. Uh nothing like this really existed before. I was very intrigued, very interested. And when my friends started building this, uh, and it started to outperform me and start to outperform our expert searchers that we were outsourcing and paying lots of money for. That's when I was sort of swayed to leave the profession and start to do something crazy. Not because I was necessarily thinking this was going to be, you know, amazing business. Um, you know, of course, that's kind of the hope on the side, but really that it would change the future of practice. And that was something that was very intriguing to me. Because this, you know, this AI thing, I was like, hmm, this is something here. I feel like there's going to be a pretty big change in my profession based on this technology. You know, I could never have foreseen the way it would change the world, but certainly, certainly in patent practice and of course, you know, the rest is history.
Steve Brachmann:Do you think there's anything about patent practice or intellectual property that makes AI adoption make more sense in that field, maybe compared to other legal fields?
Stephanie Curcio:Uh, sure. I mean, I feel like it it makes a lot of sense in legal generally, because lawyers deal with language and the choice of words can be very indicative of how um ironclad a particular agreement might be, for example. Um, but of course, you know, the choice of language, the choice of words, the choice of punctuation can make a great patent, um, or it can make a patent that ought to have been great, um, full of full of holes that that can be exposed later on in the process. So even if it's issued, I mean, you need to make sure that you're protecting something that is enforceable uh and not not something that um is not going to hold water uh when it is valuable or when it is perceived to be valuable. So that's the that's the issue. And um it it's pretty pretty high stakes at the end of the day. I mean, if you're spending a lot of time, effort, energy, resources um creating a patent portfolio, of course, there's different motivations to create a patent portfolio, but you know, the hope is that you're creating something valuable. Um and you only really know if you're creating something truly valuable uh if you get sued, I guess.
Steve Brachmann:Right.
Stephanie Curcio:Um and if if you're if your patents are are valuable um and they're uh strong, then they will hold water in those circumstances, and that's that's imperative. Um sort of bet the company litigation at that stake.
Steve Brachmann:Yeah, especially with so many validity issues nowadays and and uh standards changing in recent decades, just making sure that validity is airtight is so important uh nowadays.
Stephanie Curcio:Yeah, I think that the advancements in AI hopefully will lead to stronger patents at the end of the day. I mean, that's kind of remains to be seen because the technology is so new and it's evolving so quickly. Um, you know, we've had sort of search capabilities for the last, you know, five years plus um using AI-based systems. Uh, but with the more generative models, um, you know, you know, it kind of remains to be seen what happens in the profession as those patents sort of move through the system, um, are litigated, et cetera. So I mean, it's a it's a big change in workflow and how attorneys are operating on a day-to-day basis and how patents are being created and enforced. I mean, there's a there's a lot of different aspects of patent practice in particular. I mean, you asked me about IP, but if talking about patents, I mean, there's a lot of change and a lot of different aspects of how AI has influenced the profession.
Steve Brachmann:Can you give a couple of examples of those that you've seen that have probably uh advanced the profession the most in recent years?
Stephanie Curcio:Sure. I mean, well, we we started in search because that's all we could really do at the time. I mean, there was no generative AI. And so the the only thing that we could really, or the biggest problem that we could solve, I'll say, using um any sort of sophisticated AI systems is to search and analyze uh patent information. So this has been around for a while, and of course, you know, we've seen the benefits hopefully many of most of us have seen the benefits of search systems that are based on AI technology. Um, but today, I mean, it touches every aspect of the workflow. I mean, I've seen companies working in um the very, very early stages of the process. So, you know, harvesting inventions, creating invention, um, usable invention disclosures from you know various amounts of uh information provided by the research department, um, moving through the process, patent drafting, patent uh prosecution, um, and then you know, later on in the process, I guess, you know, uh assuming that you know a patent is issued, you can use AI in in various different stages of litigation, including, you know, drafting claim charting and other aspects of freedom to operate, etc. Um AI is really touching it all uh and hopefully making it better. I mean, you know, again, it's to be seen. It's definitely changing it, uh changing the workflow, changing the profession, you know, hopefully uh improving it, but again, it remains to be seen.
Steve Brachmann:Yeah, and it's always improving productivity. Uh, there's definitely a double-edged sword to the adoption of any new technology, especially in legal, where you have so many ethical considerations and just uh uh Pandora's boxes to open when you're applying new technologies. And you don't know what the bad is that you're getting with the good sometimes.
Stephanie Curcio:Sure, yeah, I think that's that's true. And you know, you raise an interesting point around like efficiencies. And of course, that's our belief, and that's our strong position, I suppose, as a profession that adopting these AI technologies is going to increase efficiency and introduce new um productivity gains. I I hope that's the case as well, but I I I read a really interesting article a couple weeks ago. Um, oh, where was it? Now I can't remember the um the source, but it was uh the Atlantic. It was an Atlantic, an article in the Atlantic. And this article was quite interesting. It was not about legal tech um in particular, it was about AI technologies to improve coding efficiency. So these AI systems um such as Cursor and the like are meant to improve efficiency within development teams. And this study revealed that at the end of a process of uh observation, these tools actually decreased efficiency across the subsection of uh professionals that they were uh studying. And what was super interesting to me is reading this, the professionals that they were studying believed that they were gaining efficiency. So they they themselves thought they were being more efficient, but the study revealed that they were actually less efficient. So obviously, I I hope that is not the case for us, but I think, you know, I think that we ought to pay attention to this. I mean, you know, introducing certain efficiencies in one aspect might introduce inefficiencies in others. So I think it's a matter of checks and balances and ensuring that we're deploying in the right way that's going to prove to be effective across the workflow of the end user and not just create more problems as you start to introduce technology along the way.
Steve Brachmann:So, based on your understanding of patent law, the patent profession, and uh what you learned in this Atlantic article, do you think there's anything actionable that patent firms, uh professionals can take away as far as aspects of the profession where those kind of inefficiencies could creep in during adoption?
Stephanie Curcio:Yeah, I've been thinking about this lately. And of course, as an AI vendor and a herbinger of AI techno technology and solutions to the IP profession, we want to believe that we're doing something good and not just creating more problems. And so I think what we try to encourage our clients to do and folks that I speak with in the IP industry is try to get some measurable sense of ROI. Um, and are these tools and technologies that you're deploying internally, are they actually leading to you know decreased prosecution time, some sort of um efficiency gains within your organization in terms of time spent on each task? Um, and not just you know, finger in the air is this feeling right or not. Um, I think the other thing to consider is that efficiency is only one aspect of the equation. And, you know, the the accuracy of your end work product and the quality of that work product can certainly be quite impacted by um AI solutions. And that for sure should be a gain as well. So, you know, there's different sort of levers that have to all be pointed in the same direction into in terms of what ROI looks like for particular organizations. And efficiency is just one piece of the puzzle. But if you're ending up with a better work product as a result, that is a significant gain too, even if it takes you a little bit longer. So it depends on the organization and it depends on what success looks like on a you know, uh case-by-case basis.
Steve Brachmann:So coming into the AI space at a time when prior art search was really the most that could be accomplished. Where are we now in 2025? Uh where have we developed in AI systems for the patent profession? And where might we be going in the next couple of years?
Stephanie Curcio:What a question. I mean, there's a lot to unpack there. I feel like, you know, it's a brave new world. There's so many capabilities and possibilities and building on foundations. Uh it's it's a really, really exciting time to be part of the landscape and be have been an early mover to kind of see the evolution of the of what is possible. Um, you know, the every aspect, and as we talked about earlier, every aspect of the patent profession is touched in some way by AI. And I think that's almost trite to say because every profession is touched by AI at this point. It's it's interesting that you know, all of this technology advancements have coincided or dovetailed with the sentiment of the end user. When I first started Ann All Patent, the sentiment was, oh, AI, interesting. Good luck to you. Um, whereas today it's like, oh, AI, oh, okay, and we need to talk because you know this is part of our mandate is to adopt AI technologies to stay relevant. So everybody is very quickly racing to adopt AI solutions to improve internal efficiencies, to unlock new workflows, and to increase their ability to, you know, move locks up and stay competitive, frankly, uh, in the future. So, with these two forces kind of working in tandem, the the field has exploded. And we've seen this be evidenced by a number of different companies entering this space. And of course, you know, they say an overnight success happens over five years. Um, so you know, it's going to take some time to kind of you know develop the um the foundation to uh to bring these companies forward in the space. But at the same token, it's exciting. I mean, there's there's so much opportunity and there's so much excitement, both from a vendor perspective as well as an end user perspective, and the whole ecosystem is really moving in the right direction. Um we have to do it responsibly, obviously, and make sure that we're putting certain checks and balances in place such that AI solutions are being deployed in the right way, um, and that ethics and other security um concerns are addressed when you're in deploying these solutions. Um, but you know, we've seen such a change in the ecosystem. And even capabilities that are within our platform today are things that I couldn't even imagine being possible a few years ago. Um, we're seeing such a quick evolution in the technology. Um, and the profession is here for it. It's like, give me the AI. Let's go.
Steve Brachmann:Yeah. Shut up and take my money, kind of that Futurama GIF. Yeah.
Stephanie Curcio:Yeah. You know, in the early days, it was like, please buy it, please buy my software. And now it's just, you know, I'm not gonna say, you know, where people are banging down our door, but at the same token, it's it's it's a lot easier to to connect with the end user and to express the value because the value is so inherent in the solution that we provide.
Steve Brachmann:Right, right. I wanted to touch back. Uh, you had talked about making sure that we're being responsible in the ethical use and adoption of AI. Uh are there any particular ways you think firms should be thinking about that? Um certain ethical considerations that, given the current state of AI, uh, need more focus during that adoption?
Stephanie Curcio:I think that there's been, there's a, there's like a spectrum, right? So you have certain organizations that are like, here's my security questionnaire. We need to see all of your, you know, your your penetration tests and your SOC2 reports, and we need you to put you through the ringer, essentially. Uh, and then the other end of the spectrum is like, we just need to move on this. So let's sign where we need to sign and let's go. So I mean, I I think there's some firms and some organizations that kind of get in their own way a bit, um, because they really tried to like, you know, keep everything in like a really tight sandbox and and such that nothing can germinate in it. Um, whereas on the other end of the spectrum, there's a bit of loosey-goosiness that might you know not be the right strategy. Um, so I think, you know, finding the right balance between, you know, the two extremes is really critical because you don't want to get in your own way. You do want to make sure that the systems that you're employing are secure and that they work for your organization. Um, but at the same time, you you don't want to move so quickly that you're ignoring some of the some clear red flags that might exist within certain solutions. So um, you know, that's that's up that's what I'll say on that point.
Steve Brachmann:So you've been in the AI space for at least a decade now, and that has led you to some really interesting opportunities in the sector. And I'm wondering if you're able to talk a little bit about your work with uh some of the more well-known organizations in IP and patent law.
Stephanie Curcio:Absolutely. Yeah. So I I've really leaned into industry organizations for my own professional development and um uh keeping up to date in what's going on in the profession, particularly as it pertains to AI, which is of course extremely relevant to my business. Um, I've been uh part of leadership for the AI PLA, the American Intellectual Property Law Association, for um for a number of years now, uh specifically working with the Emerging Technologies Committee. I currently chair that committee. Um, this is my last year as chair, which is actually going to be super sad because I've been in leadership at this committee for for well, I don't know, six or seven years. I feel like it's really been a long time. Yeah. And I, you know, being an early mover, like I said, in an AI for IP has opened up doors for me that as a young professional would not have been opened up otherwise. Um, and I've been really embraced by the IP community to help educate them on AI issues. Um, and I've been obviously extremely careful. You know, I never sort of mix business and you know industry events. I don't go in with them on aim to kind of sell my product, but rather to be a voice in the room and have a seat at the table.
Steve Brachmann:So, with your work with the Emerging Technologies Committee, uh, how much of that encompasses AI and what other technological sectors has that work encompassed?
Stephanie Curcio:Yeah, absolutely. So being being leadership at that this particular committee has been quite interesting because I started as co-chair of the AI subcommittee within this committee. And it's funny because that was the only AI sort of aspect of the AI PLA at that time. And now every single committee has an AI subcommittee because AI has now touched every aspect of IP, um, not just patents, but everything, and especially copyright right now. Um, so there's a lot of interesting developments and there's a lot of questions that remain to be answered. And AI is really part of every single conversation. I mean, you can't go to a conference without there being every panel mentioning AI in some one way or another. It's pretty crazy, actually, um, how influential this technology is to our profession. Um, it's it's really the biggest thing to kind of rock the profession since probably email or maybe cell phones. So, I mean, it's it's significant. And so, you know, leaning into that a little bit, we've seen such a change in the technology since I have been leadership of the committee. And I think I'm I'm leaving at quite an interesting time because although there is a clear move towards an early majority adoption of the technology in the profession, there's still so many questions to be answered. So I'm just in the process of writing an article with a you know professional that I know in the IP community around some of the ethical questions and some of the um the surprise AI that kind of shows up in software that was never AI and now every single software has an AI feature. Um, and there's questions, okay, are you signing new terms of service? You know, what does that mean? Where is your data going? Um, all of these questions are sort of being not really paid attention to in the same given enough weight, um, I guess, as these new features and capabilities are being rolled out. I mean, I'm speaking from like an AI-native software perspective. Um, but as I said, you know, even legacy solutions that never had any AI are now, you know, all of a sudden turning around and like, ta-da! We're an AI company. Um, and what does that mean for the consumer and how is their data being used, if at all? And I I think that these questions are, you know, very interesting, um, hence why I'm writing an article about it. Um, but there's no answers. I mean, I the article right now is just a whole bunch of questions, uh, things that people should think about and consider, but there's no right answer right now. There's no gold standard, there's just all these questions that ought to be considered and probably evaluated on a case-by-case basis.
Steve Brachmann:Yeah, and I think we're at a really interesting spot right now where it almost seems like with AI, it's been like promised use case, and then the use case explodes. And then because that use case explodes, we get so much more promise. And right now, uh, we're seeing these big deals. I think NVIDIA just had a big deal with open AI. I I believe there's another, I don't want to I don't want to say the company did it wrong, but they're having these big deals uh with open AI, uh they're flight to product at GPT, and some of the coverage around these deals has been like great $100 billion investment. Uh, what is that actually going to look like in implementation? Because it it seems to be a little bit beyond it's more money than the AI company knows how to apply right now. Uh and and maybe that's we're currently in that promise stage again where we're trying to figure out what's the next uh wave of use case, maybe at least commercially.
Stephanie Curcio:Oh, yeah, there's a lot there as well. So I think first of all, we can talk about the convergence in the industry. So I feel like right now we're sort of at a stage in time where there's a whole bunch of companies doing a whole bunch of different things, um, some of them related, some of them overlapping, other than others like completely distinct. Um, and the ecosystem, we're, you know, we might be in a bit of a bubble, you might say, right? Um, and so I mean, I don't want to put that word out there, but it's it's quite possible that we are. And I think that um the only way that we're going to see like this bubble sort of relax without popping is through natural convergences within organizations. And I think that's even true in the IP AI ecosystem. And I think you know, interconnectivity between different platforms and capabilities allows you to have, you know, best in class solutions across the board. I mean, you look at companies like Clay, which folks might be uh familiar with, perhaps not. It's just like this, you know, fantastic interconnective way to connect best in class solutions that do very specific things together. I think that the IP ecosystem is ripe for a clay-like company to come and connect the best solutions together to uh have the best outcome for the individual user. And that'll change depending on who the individual user might be. So I think like a modular-based approach to creating the right tech stack for your organization and connecting it through some platform that you know remains to be seen in the future might be the way to solve this problem. Um, rather than, you know, throwing way too much money at one particular company and expect them to do it all. Because frankly, that's you know not in their DNA to do absolutely everything. Uh, you know, you can't boil the ocean, as they say. So, you know, if you focus on one problem, you'll you have the possibility to be the absolute best at solving that problem. Um, and if you're able to kind of connect different companies together that each individually solve the problem that they're best at solving, I mean, that sounds pretty good to me. Um, and I think that's kind of where we're headed as a as a uh as an ecosystem in the AI world generally. And I think IP is no exception.
Steve Brachmann:Yeah. You know, we've had some guests on this show talk about uh solutions, generally speaking, about solutions that their firm has implemented, uh AI products that are from third-party vendors, and then stuff that they're implementing in-house. Uh you know, taking away the bias of the fact that you're an AI vendor yourself, uh what is your viewpoint on are law firms well adept at handling in-house IT like that uh versus what you've seen out of vendors in the space?
Stephanie Curcio:Oh, a very astute question, actually.
Steve Brachmann:I tried, I tried to make it as unloaded as possible.
Stephanie Curcio:I I have so many thoughts on this topic, and something that I am I have been thinking for a long time about writing um an article of some sort on, um, and also talking about potentially doing a webinar on this topic too with some folks, because you know, I don't know how much I want to give it away right now, but honestly, okay, when I started in this profession, um, I mean, not the practicing attorney profession, but more so in the business of AI for IP, there was a lot of momentum or a lot of discourse, I'll say, around build versus buy, right? So, like, do we build our own solutions that are very highly customizable to everything that we need, or do we just buy something from a vendor off the shelf and just like hope it works and hope for the best? And at that time, it was sort of like it was a debate. I mean, there was no clear answer. And there were some organizations that were hiring software engineers and building in-house solutions and really making a go at it. But at some point in time, that sort of fell away, you know, and and then just off-the-shelf solutions became really powerful and you know, somewhat flexible, so not as rigid as they had been before. And the cost of maintaining a build yourself solution as an organization got too high to maintain. Like, even though, you know, you could host things in the cloud, whatever. Um, the whole architecture is it was too expensive, and especially employing software engineers to maintain it, et cetera. You know, it's not the business of law, right? I mean, lawyers are not, you know, managing software engineers. It's not what we're trying to do. So ideally. Yeah. Until now, you know, um, no, I I think, you know, but but but quietly though, quietly though, this, you know, build versus I question has come up again, but nobody's really talking about it. And I just happen to have my ear to the ground and have been hearing this in the ecosystem, um, that folks are now taking, you know, there's vibe coding solutions where you don't even have to be a software engineer to build a um a workflow solution internally. You know, there's this, you know, whole mentality of like some level of customization specific to the firm to increase efficiencies so that you're not just using some generic solution that's you know applicable to all, you know, people that fit their ideal customer profile, but rather something that's designed specifically for the workflows within your organization. And this is happening right now, and not a lot of people are talking about it. It's a really interesting evolution. Um, In software, that you know, I have more thoughts and ones that I'm not going to share right now. But I think we we we have to be aware that this is happening, and I think it puts it puts larger firms, I would say, or larger organizations at a distinct advantage um over smaller ones that don't have the ability or perhaps the foresight to kind of do this on their own. And you know, I'll leave it at there at that, but I I I think that there's a lot here, and it'll be very interesting to see how it evolves in the next, you know, six, twelve months as quickly as things are kind of moving and shaking right now.
Steve Brachmann:Uh yeah, every day a new thing happens in the AI space. But yeah, that's been very interesting to me to talk to people and hear just the variety of what are we trying to address in-house versus you know the third-party vendor? Um, I want to kind of get now to the current state of AI. And speaking generally, uh just with the technologies that you've seen in current implementation, are there any pros and cons as far as like what do you find that AI handles really well for the patent profession? And then generally speaking, where do AI developers need to put more of their time and focus in order to create tools that actually uh benefit uh patent practice?
Stephanie Curcio:That's a really tough question to answer. I think that it depends on the lens that you are addressing this question through. So, you know, you take uh a situation in which there's this very niche, like one-off use case that AI is not well suited to do. Well, are you are you somebody that works in that particularly niche area of law, or are you a vendor who's trying to make money? Because if you're trying to make money and you're solving this very difficult, nichey problem, then that's not going to be a very good solution for you. And in fact, I would argue this is a great opportunity to kind of build your own. Because, you know, as we discussed, it's uh the barrier to entry has decreased significantly in terms of compute resources, um, uh cost uh for sure, in terms of like software coding ability, in terms of access to great third-party models. I mean, there's there's so many things that you can do in a sandbox um that were unimaginable a number of years ago. I mean, I remember when I was practicing, you know, you had your like document management system that was like absolutely unusable. Um like you could never find what you were looking for because it was so clunky and very difficult to retrieve documents. I mean, I'm not practicing anymore, but I mean that's such an obvious area of improvement that I'm sure that solutions are are out there.
Steve Brachmann:Some of us still use Windows and hate it, so some of us still find it too clunky.
Stephanie Curcio:I know, I know. It's um it's all sort of um relative, I'll say.
Steve Brachmann:Yes. Hate's a strong word. I it's it's difficult.
Stephanie Curcio:There we go, there we go. Uh yeah, so you know, where should we pay attention as a profession or as an industry? I think it just, you know, to wrap this up, just depends on where you operate and it depends on what your motivations are. Um, there's a lot of opportunity to create right now because the barrier of entry has gone down. Um and it's an exciting time to be in the ecosystem. And I'm really, really excited to see how it evolves uh from here.
Steve Brachmann:Recently you were also added to the advisory board for IP Watchdog, which is a top patent law blog publication in the space. Uh, and I know that you spoke uh at the Women's IP forum, and I don't know if there was anything from that. Uh Judge Pauline Newman, she had a really great talk with Renee Quinn. Uh, was there anything from that conference that came up that you think uh deserves some more uh attention mainstream?
Stephanie Curcio:Absolutely. I mean, there's so much. I I think everybody should listen to that interview um with Judge Newman. It was like one of the best uh fireside chats that I've ever listened to, let alone you know be in the room for. Such incredible wisdom um was dropped during that conversation. And um, you know, I I shared some thoughts uh about that interview and about some of the um some of the insightful, you know, very wonderfully articulated uh words of wisdom that she provided. It was just it was so good. Um, so I think overarching, there's a few things that I'd like to probably call out here. One, um I think Watchdog is a really great organization. I just have to say that. Um, you know, doing things differently, you know, Jean and Renee really helped to promote um folks who may not have the opportunity to shine in their you know regular setting or in other industry associations. So at the women's forum, um they gave opportunities to several uh individuals in the first few years of practice um to speak on panels and to contribute to conversations, and something like that would never be possible at most organizations, and they you know allow people to um uh to get as much out of these uh um opportunities as they wish. And having the ability to speak, to write, to contribute, I mean, they they really do a great job in that regard. So just wanted to give credit where credit's due. I think that they're doing something different and it's really working. Um the other thing is um every single panel pretty much uh talked about AI. And I feel like, you know, this has been the way it has been for the last like year at least. Like you can't go to a conference without getting hit in the face with AI. Um, and that's a that's a good thing, I think, because it means that people are are thinking critically about these solutions and how to um effectively deploy them and also make the most out of them, uh, no matter what your workflow is, no matter how you endeavor to employ it. Um, the other thing I'll say is that it's pretty ubiquitous as a result. So, you know, it doesn't matter if you are um using a generative AI solution or one that has, you know, sneaky AI features that you may not traditionally think of as AI, it is ubiquitous. And if you don't think you're using AI, you are. So you know bury that thought to perish that idea in your mind. Um AI is everywhere and you are being exposed to it. So it's it's very important that you are intelligent and um you about what is out there and about how it is being deployed, but it still never ceases to amaze me how little people know about AI solutions and what is AI and what is not AI. Um, so you know, I had this whole conversation around, you know, not all AI is generative AI, and people were like, what do you mean? Um I I just I can't believe that we're still here. You know, I thought that we saw this, this, this, this roadblock or mental block many years ago, but we're not. Like we still have the majority of people, you know, really having no idea that AI is goes beyond Chat GPT. Like it's pretty remarkable. Um, certainly there are folks that are extremely savvy about it, you know. Um I don't want to discredit those that have, you know, thought critically about um uh leveling themselves up as a professional. But at the same time, there are a lot of people who really don't know what AI is. And you know, I I think that we need to arrive at a place at which you know that kind of conversation doesn't happen anymore.
Steve Brachmann:Yeah. And how much of that is the fact that generative AI is really at the center of all, you know, the lawsuits, the, the, the big, like we said earlier, uh business deals currently, and people just assume that's that's the be all and end all, even it, even though that's just what's getting the most focused right now.
Stephanie Curcio:Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I mean, I I tell this story sometimes uh when I talk about the early stages of uh my company. Um my my mother, who is uh a hairdresser, both my parents are hairdressers, so um, you know, barely know how to turn on the computer, you know, like um, but like, you know, incredibly lovely and supportive, amazing people, but not technical at all. And so when I first started my business, you know, no nobody had any idea what I was doing. Stephanie has officially lost her mind. We have no idea what's going on over there. She's doing something on computers, I don't know. Um, and then one day my mother called me and she said, Oh, Stephanie, I know what you do.
Steve Brachmann:Okay, what do I do?
Stephanie Curcio:And she said, Chat GPT. And I was like, Oh man, if my mom knows what Chat GPT is, you know, this is this is a thing that's going to rock the world and like loads beyond that's indeed what happened. So she had heard about it on the morning news. And I, you know, if if it's reaching, if it's reaching everybody at that level, um, that is what people think of when they think of AI. They think of Chat GPT because of that like, you know, incredible sort of moment in time, that pivotal moment that really rocked the world. And, you know, that is hard to undo and hard to re-educate folks on.
Steve Brachmann:Yeah. Well, we're coming to the end of our time here today. So, Stephanie, I always like to end these podcasts with just a few moments of uh the person behind the profession. Where do you find Zen in your own life uh that uh you know gives you an escape from all the dense uh IP AI and patent law?
Stephanie Curcio:Unescape? Well, I don't want to escape. This is I love this stuff.
Steve Brachmann:Maybe escape was the wrong word.
Stephanie Curcio:I'm just kidding. No, I absolutely I mean I think that there's a few things, of course. You know, I'm an avid runner, I run almost every day, and it gives me a lot of clarity if I don't, if I skip a day or God forbid, two days, you know, I feel like a crazy person and I need to to to move my body every day and get some fresh air. Um, but the other thing is, you know, I'm a mom and I'm very open about being a mother and being an entrepreneur. And I don't think that these two things at all need to be mutually exclusive. And I want to um be there for my child in the same way that I am there for my company. Um, you know, it's hard, of course. I mean, there's not very many other things that I do besides, you know, run for 30 minutes a day. Um, but at the same time, I mean, it's very rewarding. I think, you know, prioritizing what is important to you is extremely important to find fulfillment at whatever you're doing.
Steve Brachmann:Yeah, agreed. Yeah, and I totally understand if I miss my two-mile run and it's only two miles, but if I don't get it in, it's a waste, it's a ruined day. I did not, I did not hit all the objectives.
Stephanie Curcio:I feel you. I feel exactly yeah, I'm uh I'm I'm happy that you understand that that feeling and you know that that fresh air and that exercise. There's something about it.
Steve Brachmann:Yeah, it's it's not quite, we've had some guests that have done running of the bulls uh in Pamplona, so it's not quite that, but I guess as patent professionals, we we just like uh high octane sports of of different types.
Stephanie Curcio:I mean, running with the bulls, that's yeah, that's um that's an extreme one. I can't say that I've done that before, but there's been times where there's been coyotes running around.
Steve Brachmann:In Toronto?
Stephanie Curcio:Like in Toronto it's um it's it's yeah, there's a lot of coyotes around. It's pretty crazy.
Steve Brachmann:Oh wow, okay, great. A few too many maple leaves as well, yeah. Anyways, Stephanie, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today. Uh be well.
Stephanie Curcio:Yeah, thank you too. This has been a lot of fun. I appreciate the conversation.
Steve Brachmann:Absolutely. Uh well, that is IP Innovators for today, and until next time, happy patenting.
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