Episode 7 - An Education Task Force (featuring Andri Orphanides)

Upon Further Inspection is pleased to welcome back Andri Orphanides, API’s Director of ICP. We had such a great conversation going with Andri that we extended our chat and split her interview into two parts. Here’s part 2:

Part two of our conversation with Andri is centered around the need for developing programs and educational pathways to attract younger generations, particularly Gen Z, to the industry. She highlights the concerning trend of Gen Z's (and Gen Alpha’s) lack of interest in mechanical integrity and the challenges it poses for the future workforce. The discussion includes ideas for integrating certifications with academic degrees, creating mentorship programs, and using modern advertising methods to engage younger audiences. The discussion also touches upon the importance of mentorship programs, onboarding processes, and continual learning to foster a growth-oriented culture. Finally, you’ll get a sneak peek into some of the 2026 API Mechanical Integrity and Inspection Summit planning. NOTE – the abstract submission deadline is coming up in August!

If you missed Part 1 of our interview with Andri, listen to “Episode 6: It All Starts with the Standards” today.

00:00 Introduction 

00:37 Evolution of Inspection Practices

01:29 Addressing Workforce Challenges

03:12 Engaging the Next Generation

04:21 The Role of Certifications

10:01 Mentorship and Career Pathways

20:19 Expanding Industry Opportunities

21:27 API Mechanical Integrity & Inspection Summit 2026

24:46 Conclusion and Acknowledgements

++++++++++++

Episode Acronyms & ICP Certifications

API – American Petroleum Institute

Cert - Certification

ICP – Individual Certification Programs

ISO – International Organization of Standards

STEM – Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics

1169 – Pipeline Construction Inspector

1184 – Pipeline Facility Construction Inspector

510 – Pressure Vessel Inspector

570 – Piping Inspector

571 – Corrosion and Materials

576 – Inspection of Pressure Relieving Devices

580 – Risk Based Inspection

653 – Aboveground Storage Tank Inspector

936 – Refractory Personnel

982 – Refractory Inspector

Thank you for listening to Upon Further Inspection! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss the next one. 

 We’d love to hear from you—connect with us on LinkedIn and share your thoughts on the episode. Have ideas for future topics or guests? Email us at inspectionpodcast@gmail.com.

Join us next time, wherever you get your podcasts. Until then, stay safe and stay informed.

Note:  The views and opinions expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the hosts or the Upon Further Inspection podcast. This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal or professional advice. Listeners should seek their own qualified advisors for guidance.

Transcript

Branden 0:00

Upon further inspection, a Mechanical Integrity podcast goes beyond the data and dives into the people challenges and stories behind reliability and inspection. Whether you're in the field or in the office, this podcast is for you because mechanical integrity isn't about assets. It's about the people who keep them running. This is episode seven, an Educational Task Force, which is part two of our interview with Andri or Director of the Individual certification programs at API. When, when Greg was talking about. 25, 30 years ago. The idea was let's just go out and like look at things, do our inspections, make sure we've got people who are doing a good job of that and gathering that data. We're now at the next point where we have all the data that those folks have brought in. Now let's put together programs to help those folks to make sure that the folks that are looking at that data, analyzing that data and making decisions with that data are also to a certain level that we feel that, that they should have. It allows people to come from, not just within, but from the tech industries and from, as you said, heavy industries, other places, and be able to come in and not be an outsider. They can come in, they can say, Hey, I have this or this, or this cert, and put that on their resume or work towards it to put it on their resume and be able to be, within our industry Then, so I, I love it. I it's a great idea.

Andri 1:39

so one step further, because again, I'm always constantly looking to see how can, how can we go in And, get, get people into this pathway, for our industry? And, and especially because it's concerning to me that Gen Zs are not so interested. we have, I, I think that the oldest band of Gen Zs right now is about 26 27. so they're pretty well into the workforce at this only. That to me is a little bit alarming because on the same, on the same band for millennials, however many years ago when they were in that same age group, we had hundreds of them coming in. as you see soon, in the next five to 10 years, we'll start to see your baby boomers kind of, I know people tend to stay in our industry and that's great, but your baby boomers, I think we have, I forget what the percentage is, but roughly somewhere around 3,400 who are still holding onto their certifications, whether they're holding onto them because we're still working in their position or they're consultants in the industry. they're there, but in the next or so, they're probably gonna wanna actually retire. and then you've got, uh, your, who are probably a good number of them are over well. And so they're gonna be that next group of people. millennials probably hold over 40% of our certification, so there's a good number there. But at some point, when these 12,000 or so people walk off the, the field or out of the industry because they're gonna retire, where is that of people to kind of come in? And so one of the things I'm looking now is to do an education. Well, I'm calling it an education task force. Somebody can come up with a better name. But, there's this thought that, you know, maybe we go to the colleges and the universities and see how we can stack credentials with degrees. go where this next generation is and see if we can build a program and a, and a academic pathway for them to come in sooner into the industry as well. So I don't know what that curriculum looks like yet. I trying to build, some, Get people into this task. So something next year.

Branden 4:09

Sorry, my, my brain's running. I love, I It's such a, that's such a cool idea. Right? Hit 'em. Get, get people in even earlier. They have to go to, you know, they're going to high school, they're, they're choosing to go to college or, or technical colleges or vocational schools implementing there. I mean, that's, now, now you're really, I, I love it. I think that's a really cool idea.

Andri 4:31

I was just gonna say, I think millennials were the first ones to come out of college and be like, oh my God, I'm, I'm so many thousands of dollars in debt and, you know, I can't find a job and if I, even if I do, it's more like an entry level thing. And I went and got my degree and they were looking for, well, maybe I could get certified in something to as a quicker pathway in. And so, certifications really of the certifications or quicker ways in which you can get gain employment. Kind of started with millennials and I think are growing with Gen Zs, who are also like, from what I see, gen Zs stand to be, as they say, these researchers say they're gonna be the most educated, because most Gen Zs come from a two household, you know, unit that already has degrees. And so they are, they know whether it's an associate's degree or a four year degree or whatever their, that upper level education's gonna be. They're still looking for it, but they also still wanna know, well, what do I get for this? And probably more than millennials, they're gonna be asking that question. So, or how, how much sooner can I get in? And that's kind of where this idea came from, is like, go to them. and I don't think, Alpha, I know nobody wants to think about them yet, but they're not that far behind and, you know, so how do we, how do we entice them and offer them these opportunities and make them aware? It's mostly about making them aware. These, they're, they're all like, one has, no one ever thinks about, you know, engineering. Everybody knows an jobs exists, doctor jobs exist Some people, all the opportunities that exist and our of what.

Branden 6:16

I, I, I like, the idea of going to the tech schools and the vocational schools because like, those are the trade schools. It's been very different for me coming into this industry because I live in Ohio. Trades here are carpenters, plumbers, electricians, like if you're in the trades, you're building houses and you're doing that type of stuff. When you go to the south and you're down in Texas and in Houston, everybody talks about trades. I remember when I first went and they're like, yeah, we gotta get the trades out working on this stuff. And I'm like, working on working on what? And then it started, I started realizing, oh, it's like welders and boiler ma. Like it's a very different, like the demographics are so different. So any way to be able to get more information about there out there to. Yeah. Even if it's different regions or different areas at that younger age, to let them know that there are other opportunities. That's awesome because up here nobody thinks about, I can guarantee you very few people think about going to being a welder in oil and gas here in Cleveland, Ohio. They think I'm gonna go be, a welder and I'm gonna, I wanna work in the manufacturing plant, or, you know, or I'm gonna go be, work for a car manufacturer. It's not, it's not that I can get a certain, Yep. A hundred percent.

Andri 7:31

How do we, how do we work with, entice is it, you have to look for those influencers because a lot of, you know, your, and your, and alphas and whatever the next generation is, you know, they're, they're getting, their news in short spurts, right? They have their core news outlets that they go to. I, we call them news. I say that in, in, quotes, to speak. and then, you know, every, every, the rest of their time, I can tell you even from my kids, like my daughter's on YouTube shorts and like, I know 10 hours a day I feel sometimes, I'm like, whatcha doing? Like, how many things can you see? but, you know, but. whether, you know, they're, an inspector or they're a welder or they're in whatever, they're, they're starting to emerge on YouTube channels. So how can we maybe even partner with them to get the message out? and see, and, And we have to rethink how we're advertising to these people because they're not nobody who watches who commercial.

Branden 8:40

My, my daughter goes, my daughter doesn't know life without or with commercial. So when a commercial show comes on, she's like, Why can't we fast forward? I don't have to pause it, I just go while this is on. Yeah. A a a, actually, your, your statement there about, about influencers on YouTube. I literally just yesterday, was scrolling. Yes, I have TikTok and I'm on TikTok. I was scrolling through it and I found, I found somebody on the north slope at one of the well pads who was, they had polar bears and so they were videoing the polar bears walking around and stuff. And so I was like, oh, I'll look and see what else they got. And you know, it's them recording themselves doing like their daily work jobs up on the slope.

Andri 9:22

have followers? do they like?

Branden 9:29

well, that's the thing, right? If it's, if it's made it to me,

Greg 9:34

It's okay.

Branden 9:37

Yeah, but you know, my thought is if it's getting to me, then the algorithm knows that there's some type of oil and gas or inspection you know, branch. And eventually there, there's something there. I mean, I've seen A lot of people, in the fracking space that show up, you know, on, on the pad. A lot of the guys on the, on the well pads are what I typically end up seeing. so shout out to those guys. But yeah, you're right. You know, there's, there's influencers, there's people trying to figure out how to just make it work, figure it out. So yeah, it's a great way. so if you were talking to some of those folks, like your daughter who maybe, I don't know what path she's going or how old she is, but if she was looking to get into. This industry, is there a certain path you would tell her to take from, credentials? Like, Hey, go get your 510, or is there a way that you would try and direct her?

Andri 10:25

Well, so I would say one, because we did a, we did a session of this at the, in summit. I brought in, my counterpart at we you know, credentials and how you choose the right one. Uh, I think the most important thing when you're, not saying this for teenagers because they're probably still out there, TikTok and whatever, but when you start getting into, you know, your late teens and you're like, am I gonna college? Am I not? Am I doing a vocational program or not? start to think about what, what, what do you wanna do? Are you, are you better, working with your hands? Are you a book person? Are you not a book person? I was talking with a colleague, who, uh, the other day who was like, you know, his son already said to them, I'm not gonna, college, college is not for me. And you, the, the parents are like, we had to wrap our heads around this idea that a four year degree isn't for everyone. Right. And that's okay. Are other ways you become in society gainfully. I would say maybe start to think about what that career plan looks like. Start to map it out a little bit. I'm not saying you have to have everything and then see what are those certification programs or whether it's a certification program, whether it's a vocational school, what gets you there and how do you continue to build on it and make sure you review it too. And are really big. I think I, I, I feel like I've lost out so much in my life because I never had a real mentor in my life to help guide me through anything. I just kind of had to figure it out. So, you know, if you, if you, if there's a mentor, if there's a teacher, if there's a person who's already doing something that you see and you can get in and ask them questions and help, have them help you get, you know, under their wing and, and see how they did it. I think that's really great. It is also one thing that we're, I, I almost hate to say this, so we're looking at a mentorship program for ICP as well. that's something that I'm hoping I'm crossing fingers and toes that we can possibly get in there because I think there's a lot of people who come in looking to see if they want to become an inspector and what, you know, where, where, what do they do first and what do they do second and what do they do third? in terms of that. But if you wanna be an inspector, usually, it depends on which year. I talk to people who are coming in. They're like, yeah, I was gonna go for my five ten first because I heard that's the hardest one. Pass. Then the other two should be easy and I'm. Oh, I, no, I did my 570 first because I heard that was the hardest one to do. And so if I can pass the 570, then I can get the, and I'm like, that's great. but they have at least an idea that like this year I'm doing my 510. This year I'm, next year I'm doing my 570. Some people get ambitious and they're like, beginning of the year, I'm gonna do my 510 By the end of the year I'm gonna have my 570 then, you know, the following year I'll do, my 653 So I say, have a plan, and, review it. Sit down and, see where you wanna be. If you wanna be like, I like our 1169 guys. We, when we talk to them and they're like, you know, there's these people who work in the ditch and they see the guy walking around and in.

Branden 13:42

I love it. The, the career path thing I think is so important. because esp, I dunno if it's, especially in this industry, but within this space, there's, so, there's such an ability to go out and freelance. You can go get your certs and then you can run the circuit. There's at times there's, as you said, like you didn't, you, you mentioned that you didn't really have much of a mentor. I think there's a lot of times here in that there isn't a lot of mentorship. It's a lot of figuring it out. you learn, you fall into a role, you learn something else, you move to a different role. Like there's just a lot of moving around without a lot of people helping guide you on what's the best way, here's what I want to do, how do I get to that point? so creating that path just through certification helps with that.

Andri 14:25

Are,

Branden 14:26

Mm-hmm.

Andri 14:31

A second a second and be like, you know, a lot of the millennials kind of started with the whole, they, they're, they're interested in advancement and how they can enhance their skills and things like that. And they're constantly hearing like, make sure you don't get fail. Right. Well, are you offering training opportunities? Are you offering a space where these, people can come in because Gen Zs are gonna want that even more? They're, they're interested in companies that are in, also interested in helping advance their and interests too. Right. So you don't have a training program. Why is it, is it, is it a costing or is it just because you don't know? Or maybe, I dunno. I mean, I'm, I'm not gonna tell anyone what to do, but I think more and more the younger generations are gonna go into companies kind of looking for what is the atmosphere there, what is the culture there? What is what, what do I also get? Like, I don't wanna just sit at my desk and do my task day after day after day after day with no way, in sight for me to do better, they're going to want to do better. So how, can we create that, that environment for them?

Branden 15:36

I I mean, I've experienced that firsthand. going through the, the hiring process. I can't tell you how many of the, the students that we've interviewed and that we talked to, they're asking us back, how are you, what is your plan to develop me? What does my onboarding look like? What is my growth like? Right. They're asking me that, you know, in the interview process, and I'm like, I don't even know if I want to hire you.

Andri 16:00

Day, day one. I was just gonna throw you

Branden 16:02

Yeah,

Andri 16:03

And. see what you're

Branden 16:03

yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly right?

Andri 16:05

Yeah, I think back to even like my first day at API, right? Where they, I, I was brought in and someone took me around and introduced me to people and then they put me on a desk and I'm like, okay, now what do I do? Like, what do I do? somebody was like, go look at the website. I'm like, okay, I, you didn't hire me to sit here and like, you know, look at, I almost had to train myself basically. Like there was no onboarding process even. so that was the other thing looked at when, when I, when I was kind of in more in a management role, I was like, how are we onboarding on new hires? Like, that's important to people. Like, you can't just, they can't show up first day and be like, where do I go? go stand over there. And they go stand over there. what them to do? Stand over. No, you make, know. what are all the, IT that you need? Like, do you have a computer? Does it work? Does it get to all the software you're supposed to have access to? Like these little things and someone to sit down and make sure rather than trial and error. Like, and they've been there a week and all of a sudden it's like, oh, I, IT didn't give to Like, I find this all the time with my new hires, so I'm.

Branden 17:15

No, no. Nowhere else. This doesn't happen anywhere else other than a.

Greg 17:20

Andri So, something you brought up earlier about mentorship and how little of that we have anymore today, what are your thoughts? What, what are your thoughts on the best ways to develop critical thinking skills to people? Has a test. Um, And then this idea of continual learning, right?

Andri 17:42

I think, I think if you aren't interested in at least learning, every day, because even I'm still learning, like I've been in this credentialing field for 14 years. I don't know everything. I'm always learning, you know, how the ISO standards work, how collaborations can happen, how themes are built, whatever, whatever it is, I'm always learning. and I, we've been looking at, uh, the idea of this mentorship program and I, I always hate to talk about it because we're, we're fine tuning some pieces to it, and hoping to have it out later and. Have these people who have certifications for 10, 15 years, and maybe there's a way that they can help those who are looking to come in, whether it's they start an application, they're not sure which application, they at least create a, a profile, let's say, within the, within the ICP platform. And they don't know where to go and they just need someone to talk to because, you know, I I'm not gonna, I dunno, I dunno what to tell them if they should start with the 510 or where they're, and, you know, with what company they're look working for or where they should go. there are others who have been, where they were previously 15 years ago who might be able to say, you know what, here's what I did. Here's how you can do it. Here's, you know, how you can work with your employer. Here's how you can talk to your supervisor. Here's how you can, you know, talk to your HR and see if there's opportunities and what there is. Them a little bit with their questions, or maybe they just have one question they need to ask about, you know? And so we're looking to see how we can pull, pull in these certification holders. I hate to see the senior inspector because that's gonna start a whole other, discussion. But these, these people who have held their certifications for a long time, who have something to offer to this younger group of people who are like, I'm not sure where to start. Where do I start? Here's what I wanna do. Maybe I, maybe they don't even know what they wanna do, but they, that person can help them shape what they wanna do. and that value to a mentor, but also gives value to a mentee, right? have that, that pairing there. so I, I, that's what something we're working on. Hopefully it clears my legal, hopefully we can figure out the right way to, to figure out how we match people and that kind of thing. I'm excited for that as well. Um, but anyway, I dunno if question a little bit or a lot.

Branden 20:13

So you, you said you like new challenges. We're now in 2025. You mentioned, working on developing the, the next gen program, but there's, there's other things that you've now taken on. Is that right?

Andri 20:26

education task force, so we could look at workforce development a

Branden 20:29

Yeah.

Andri 20:30

Um, I think that's really important as we go into the next five years. looking at, ICP program grew up in a downstream environment, and so feel like we haven't, the midstream, we just sort of tapped into it. The upstream, we've almost haven't touched it. And so what are those other opportunities? Because I'm, I'm positive there are other opportunities where people might need some credentialing programs and, you know, we, we, we start looking at, start looking at portfolio of what we inspector. Down the build it out into other areas as well. How do we grow in upstream? How do we grow in midstream? Are there other areas that we're not even looking at?

Branden 21:18

Well

Andri 21:19

that, challenge for us in the next, you know, three to five years as well.

Branden 21:23

in in, talking about those different tracks, right, the inspection summit now has different tracks specific for, for the midstream in those different areas. And am I right? You have some level of involvement with the inspection summit?

Andri 21:36

Some, a little touch. So, yeah, no, we're well underway into the 2020 summit. we've a meeting. about who's, who are our track leads, who start looking at reviewers because, the call for abstract is gonna go up soon. this year we did add the petrochemical track, that wasn't added in the past. So you talk about expansion, you know, the first inspection summit, Greg, you might remember this better, a little bit better than me. but, the first inspection summit was, think really they thought about it just for the inspector, and it was really downstream focused. And after about, you know, after about the second or third, they were like, you know, maybe we should start to add these other tracks. and so we are now at our 10th edition of the inspection summit. So we've been doing this for 20 years. I say we very loosely, right? Because I've only been it for, for, for less than 14, um, in the inspection summit. So this is our 10th one, and we're like, okay, how do we make this even better, brighter? again, we added the petrochemical, track to this. We're looking at the panels, we're looking at what I like to call fireside chat in a way that are a little more interactive with the inspection summit. Not just the panel where someone's gonna go in there and you talk at them, but maybe a little more interactive, types of discussions with people. guys and gals are gonna come up with, probably a, much pit name than Fireside chat, at the end of this. So we'll see what, we'll see what we come up with. and then, you know, just looking at the emerging showcase and making sure that we can still bring that to light. And, we're gonna have a golf Andri Golf Antonio in July, and I'm like, golf in July. Why like, golfers still golf in July. They don't take a hiatus.

Branden 23:33

It'll be fine. plenty of water on the course. There'll be no problem.

Andri 23:36

Yeah. Yeah. and so we're doing it as a charity event for, with So, yeah. And then I'm, look, yeah, I'm to see how we maybe do work with, other companies out there who usually do their side, you know, celebrations and maybe we come together and we all do one big bang event of these smaller ones. We'll see. I'm open to anything and everything, although I only have how many months left. all that out.

Branden 24:05

And, and when are, when you said abstract call for abstracts is gonna come out, do you know when, when that's gonna happen?

Andri 24:10

the plan is.

Branden 24:15

Okay. That's when, that's when the initial request will go out and say, yeah.

Andri 24:19

initial abstract, and then, uh, the due date I think is August 18th, for getting me any

Branden 24:24

Okay.

Andri 24:25

any abstract submissions in. and just like last time, we are allowing folks to do their abstracts and their presentations. So if they've already got, their presentation and they just wanna update it and submit.

Branden 24:39

Well Andri thanks so much for taking some time to talk with us. I've learned a ton. I've learned a, an absolute ton. I have not been anywhere near, uh, I, I tell people my, my experience with API has been very small. Um, I I'm pushing my folks to go. I want to push them and and get them out there and have them, uh, get as much and experience with the whole process as, as much as they can. to sit and talk with you has been awesome. so thank you. Thank you for taking your time.

Andri 25:08

Yeah,

Branden 25:13

That's the important part. All right, well, thank you So, much. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks again to Andri for joining us, and also thanks to the entire planning committee who's helping put together next year's inspection and mechanical integrity summit held in San Antonio. For more information on the summit, including registration and abstract submission details, please visit events.api.org. Thank you for listening to Upon Further Inspection, a Mechanical Integrity podcast. This episode was co-created by Inspectioneering and Corr Solutions. Our producers are Nick Schmoyer, Jocelyn Christie and Jeremiah Wooten. This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal or professional's advice. Listeners should seek their own qualified advisors for guidance. If you enjoyed this episode. Please join us next time wherever you listen to your podcasts. Until then, stay safe and stay informed.