"I made £1 million from going viral" Sofia Panwar, Founder of Unndr

Welcome aboard Business Class - the go-to podcast for ambitious founders, entrepreneurs, and anyone building something from the ground up. This is where we share the real journey to success: the highs, the lows, and everything in between.

In this episode, I’m joined by the incredible Sophia Panoir - founder of Under, the lingerie subscription brand that scaled to seven figures in just two years. Named on the Forbes 30 Under 30 list, Sophia has built a community of over 300,000 followers and reached millions through viral social media content - all while navigating the realities of startup life.

But this isn’t your typical “overnight success” story.

This is one of the most raw, honest conversations I’ve had on the podcast. We dive deep into:

• The truth behind scaling a business fast (and what no one tells you)
• Going viral on social media and turning views into paying customers
• The pressure of cash flow, stock mistakes, and financial stress
• Building and managing a team as a first-time founder
• Leaving a 9–5 career to start a business (law to lingerie!)
• The reality of burnout, imposter syndrome, and mental health in entrepreneurship

Sophia also shares her blueprint for creating a subscription-based brand, building a loyal customer base, and standing out in a crowded market by redefining what lingerie means — focusing on confidence, self-care, and empowerment.

If you’re an entrepreneur, small business owner, or dreaming of starting your own brand, this episode is packed with real talk, lessons, and insights you won’t hear anywhere else.

Get your notebook ready - this one is full of value.

🎧 Topics covered:
entrepreneurship, startup growth, social media marketing, going viral, female founders, subscription business model, scaling a brand, business mindset, cash flow management, team building, founder life, online business

Strap in… you’re now flying Business Class ✈️

Produced by TAEPodcast www.taepodcast.co.uk

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Welcome aboard to business class. The only place to be if you are on your journey to success. You'll be showing the ups, the downs, and everything in between. Just a disclaimer that this is all my owner teammates and what if someone works for me as a first-time business owner. So please take everything I say with a pinch of salt. So take your seats, strip in, and welcome aboard to business classes. And welcome back to another episode of Business Class. I know I say this every week, but I've got a really, really exciting guest on today. I've got the incredible Sophia Panoir. I have literally just finished speaking to her before recording this intro. And it's probably one of the most real, sort of eye-opening chats I've had with a guest so far. She was so open about things she's been struggling with. We're both just trauma-dumped about how hard business actually is. So I'm really, really excited for you to get your teeth into this episode. For those of you that don't know Sophia, she is the founder of Under, which is a lingerie brand that she scaled to seven figures in just two years. It's a really unique brand as well because it's on a monthly subscription service, which is so smart. So she basically shares with us the blueprint for brands that want to sell out through going viral on social media. She's reached millions and built a following of over 300,000 in such a short space of time. On top of that, she's gone on to be named on the Forbes 30 under 30 list, featured in the press, built a team, and so much more. I am truly so excited for you to listen to this conversation. Get your notebooks out for this one because it's going to be a good one and we're going to learn a lot. So let's get on into today's episode. Sophia. Welcome to business class. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited for this chat. And I was just saying to Sophia before filming that I remember seeing her videos ages ago where you were like packaging orders, and to be sat here now with you on the plane seats is such like a 360 moment of how far you've come because it's boomed in such a short space of time.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

No, thank you. And honestly, I was saying the same thing to you because when I first started out, I was seeing a lot of your TikTok content, that's great. A lot of your stuff where you were speaking about your struggles, and I thought no one was doing it at the time. And you were the only one who was being really vocal and really honest. And I just thought you were breath a breath of fresh air. Oh, you were so good.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

It's it's hard to actually do that, isn't it? Because I know you've you've done it as well, and it's you always wonder whether it's the right thing to do and how you're going to be perceived, and people have opinions, and I think sometimes I get really scared about coming across as someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. Yeah. But I kind of think no one really does know what they're doing. Um, so you went from going to uni to become a solicitor, right? To now owning a lingerie brand. So, how on earth do you go from one extreme to the other? Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Honestly, we we amongst my friends, we say, Oh, you've gone from lore to lingerie, like with two L's. And I'm like, I really have, like, I've gone from one industry to another, and I feel like it's quite a classic thing that a lot of founders do do. They're normally in an industry that they just don't sit well with. And I think for me, it was all about wanting to help people. That's what I wanted to do from the very beginning. And as soon as I sat down in that nine to five desk in the city, I immediately knew it wasn't it wasn't for me. Yeah. Um, I don't know what it was, it was the culture, there was a lot of um misogyny, there was a lot of racism, and I was like, you know what? I have bigger things meant for me. I'm not built for this. I'm not built for this. Yeah, this isn't for me. So I want to take myself out of the situation, but what can I do that's gonna help me fuel my purpose and to still be able to do that that's not law? And I thought, business, why not just start an underwear company and see how it goes and then sort of never look back after that?

SPEAKER_02 3:56

I think it's incredible because I think when you think of lingerie and you're not, I suppose, in touch with your femininity almost, you see it as like sexy and like porn and like bad, you know. Like I bet you get a lot of people that are like, oh, why are you doing that sort of thing? But I love how you've almost spun it on its head. And I always think when I think of lingerie, you wear it for you. You wear it because it makes you feel confident. You don't wear it for the for the other person. And I think I love how you've like flipped it on its head of being like this is like us reclaiming it back, it's feminine, it makes us feel like in our feminine energy, and I think it's really cool how you've got that message across. Was that an easy thing to do, or have you found it quite difficult to like reclaim what lingerie is almost?

SPEAKER_01 4:47

You know what? At the beginning, I felt that it came so naturally, and I think why social traction was there from the jump was because it was something that was missing. Yeah, I think it was something that I felt was present on social media in terms of a lot of brands were hypersexualizing underwear, making it out that you needed to buy it for somebody else, or you needed to buy it to make yourself feel um a certain type of way that honestly a lot of women don't feel comfortable with. And I think I just wanted to make a safe space for women to want to own underwear for themselves and to feel really powerful and to reclaim that as you say. And I think it was just a journey of being really honest with women online and to explain to them that you don't have to be wearing underwear for somebody else, like you can wear underwear and you're chilling at home, yeah. It literally doesn't matter, it's how it makes you feel. Um, so yeah, it was just a really natural, sort of easy way in to the industry.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

And then how did you make the decision to make it a monthly subscription? Like, were you like, I'm just gonna launch each individual piece, or were you like, no, actually, I can go a step above that?

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Yeah, that's a funny one because at the beginning I had so many people ask me, like, why subscription? Why did you do it? And it stemmed from lockdown. So I didn't start the business in lockdown because I was finishing my master's in law. But what happened during that time was that I don't know about you, Vicky, but I was literally spending so much time on self-care. Like I felt like you went one or two ways in lockdown, and I was doing the running, the baths, everything you could imagine self-care was doing. Then I obviously went into the world of work, and I felt like all that self-care and that ritual stuff I was doing just went out the window.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

So when I casted my mind back to that time, I'd also bought a lingerie set during lockdown, and I wore it for me because we weren't seeing anybody. But I remember that when we went back to work, that feeling had completely diminished. So when I then was thinking about okay, how do I want to bring this feeling of self-care to women? I thought of the subscription service because I wanted to make sure that women were being taken care of every single month and to have that little monthly reminder that oh, I can actually choose a moment for myself this month and indulge in a really beautiful underwear set that's just for me.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

That's so nice. And you know what? Like going back to when you left your lines five when I was doing my research on you, the the email they send back when you send a resignation in is just like so cold and like what did they say? I can't remember what it was.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

It was something around the lines of I'm not surprised we saw this coming, but something all of us.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Like I just think that's crazy. And I think what I love about people now, like us in our 20s, who have experienced really shitty nine to fives, is how we are creating a new workplace for people of where we would want to work. Yes. And like it, but also it's obviously not all sunshine and rainbows. And I've had people who have given in their notice and they might be on not the right path or it's not the right fit. But I would never just email someone cold like that and be like, I saw this coming. It's like it's the conversation, it's the, you know, whatever sort of grounds you leave it on with someone, you know, what can I do for you in the next job? Do you want me to write you a reference? Do you want me to do this? Like it's just crazy how nine to fives they do have a bad rep because of people like that. Yeah. But I love that we're trying to reclaim that. And also, I know like you've got your team now, and how have you found growing a team? Like, has it been easy for you? Has it been difficult? What's that process been like?

SPEAKER_01 8:17

I think it's probably been like yourself, honestly. Like just Rocky. Yeah. But I think it's always gonna be when you and I have never done something like this before, it's like, how do you navigate this? Like, what am I meant to do? Yeah, but I feel like us girls that have like left a nine to five. I feel like one thing that we all have in common is that we're all really big empaths as well. Because I'm a super big empath, like I treat the people around me with respect. And listen, if if someone who's working for me maybe doesn't enjoy the way we work, or it's not for them, or they want to have a different opportunity, or honestly, it doesn't matter what the reason is, I'm always gonna give that person the utmost respect. I think that's the bare minimum, despite because people are on their different journeys, you don't know like what people are wanting in their life, and that's absolutely fine. But I think in terms of hiring, it's been a mixed bag. Yeah, it's um it's tough because at the end of the day, your business is like your baby as well, and you're navigating how you want to get it to grow, and also then trying to deal with uh managing expectations and having the right people on the path, on your path, is a f it's a hard task to find. But I feel like when you find those people, it's so glaringly obvious when they're amazing and when they're there for the right reasons. And I think that's a really big point, like being here for the right reasons, being here when the times are tough, yeah, being here when the times are good, is finding those people that are resilient and are gonna fight like you would as well.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

I think that's why it's so tough, is because, like you said, we've never led a team before, we've never, you know, like HR and policies, and like I didn't know what that is. Like I've had to learn all that, but I think even though you explain that to people, they still expect certain things when coming into a company, which rightly show sure, rightly so they should, but also it's like giving us a bit of like patience and grace, and like this is off, you don't understand. This is actually my first time doing this. I'm almost no better than you are at leading a team. I think that's why it's tough. But I also think it's the fact that because we are young people running businesses and we share it online, it's it seems like so much fun to be a part of. And they're like, oh, this will be so fun and cool and and chic, you know, like coming in every day with my little work bag and like my little blazer on and stuff. But then it's when you actually have to do the hard work that comes with a startup that is not glamorous at all, is what sort of makes or breaks people. But I think that's why, like, as founders and as young people as well, who are doing it for the first time, we have to speak about things because otherwise we're all just gonna keep bottling it up and think, well, am I a really bad boss because I've had someone leave, or am I a horrible person because this person's left? Like, it's so normal to not like finish with the team you started with as well, and like find the right people and create the right culture has been really tough. So you managed to grow the business super fast. I've got here you've done seven figures in just two years, which is incredible. So, how much of that do you feel like was down to going viral on social media? And how do you ensure you're not too reliant on social media for sales?

SPEAKER_01 11:30

I think at the beginning it really was, and it was like really quick as well. I feel like as I say, I was so I was in the job um at the time of starting under. Under then started picking up, I would say maybe three or four months into launching, which was quite surprising because in my head mentally, I was like, oh, we're gonna take a couple of years to get to this point. And it was like, no, like you're gonna be there in six months. Yeah, you're gonna hit that seven-figure point very, very quickly. And I had no idea. I'd never even I didn't even know I was capable of achieving a number like that. Not even a lot of people. Yeah, you can't fathom. Like I was on minimum wage. I think at the time it was about 18 grand a year that I was on, and then all of a sudden the business is like doing numbers that I cannot even fathom at the age of 24, 25. Um, but it was a lot to do with social virality at the beginning because I didn't have money for ads, and to be honest, I didn't know what ads were. No, so I mean, so I was very much a social, organic girl posting what I wanted, what I felt like, what I felt like girls wanted to see. Um, and I guess girls really resonated hardcore with it. Um, and it really was a six-second video for me that achieved like 25 million views, and it went absolutely insane. And I'm talking not even the underwear, it was literally the box slightly opening and slightly closing. And I like peaked the set, and I then I shut it and then it went ballistic, and I don't understand how. That's crazy. But it honestly, that was like a good momentum for like two years, and organically, we were absolutely killing it. But obviously, that runs its course as well, and I love to be completely transparent about that, and to always say that you can have your organic time, but you always need to understand that that probably will come to an end as well, naturally, um, just as times change, algorithms change, and all the rest of it. And I think now, in the in the last two years, building out that page structure alongside organic has been really needed, like it's so necessary in order to um be able to sustain the figures you were doing and to not heavily rely on organic and to be able to diversify that um stream of income there.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Yeah, and I think as well, like being comfortable with that every month is not gonna be your best month because I remember my business grew not as fast as that, but fast, where it was like um, you know, we'd have a great month, then um like twice the size of that, then double it and double it, and you're like, oh my god, this is crazy. And you get almost a bit cocky and like, I need to hire, I need to do this, I need to do that, I'm gonna buy a big fancy car, I'm gonna buy a house. Like you get really excited, and then you have to come down, and it's back to being like back on the floor, and you're like, oh, I'm humbled now. And then you think, am I doing a bad job? Am I not a good business owner? Does no one like the product? But I always just say, like, if you think of the biggest brands in the world or like big retailers, they have bad months. Everyone has quieter months. It's just a natural normal thing that you're not always going to be increasing every single month, and that's okay. But I think it's just being smart with your cash, isn't it? Like having cash in the bank when you have a good month. Like, I we usually keep a lot of it in and reinvest it. We don't really like go crazy and you know hire loads of people and stuff. What do you think has been the toughest lesson you've had to learn? Like something that well, out of all the lessons that's really like shaped you guys as a business.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

I think it's off the back of what you said, Vicky, in terms of that come down, yeah, and realizing that everything that you felt like you could do with that money, like we reinvested heavily at the time, but I think when you have that come down, you understand where the holes are, where you spent too much money on. For us, it was stock. Like I ended up thinking that because we were going like this, I was like, Yeah, in six months' time, we're still gonna be doing that. So let me order more and more stock. And when it comes to underwear, you have to be ordering like six months in advance. So when I'm giving my manufacturer quantities, I'm like, yeah, add on 20% every single month. And then the time comes and you're literally like, oh my god, I'm not doing the same numbers, but at the end of the day, I've committed to buying that stock. Yeah, and that was a really big error that we made, and I'd say that was about two years ago, and we're still coming out of that situation because a lot of money got tied up into stock, and it was a really hard pill to swallow because almost as a founder, you need to have that accountability there because it's no one else's fault but your own because you made the decision to do that, but at the same time, you sort of beat yourself up a bit, and it's like, but how am I meant to know when it's the first time I'm doing something? I don't know, like it's a really difficult one to kind of navigate. But I think over ordering stock because you're thinking the glory days are gonna continue, continue, and continue, and not understanding and not preparing yourself that a bad month can come. And are you gonna be prepared for that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Um, and I think I wasn't but you don't know because it's your first time doing that. Like you can't even describe to people the highs you feel when things are going well, like you feel untouchable. You're literally just like you can't, I can't even put it into words. You know, when you're like driving home and you're just like, yeah. The music's high, music, the vibes are so high, and you you just can't, you're like, nothing can go wrong. And it can even be the next day when that's down. Like the next day, you're crying, you're stressing, you're like, How did I not see this happening? But I think I've just tried to be more, yeah, like more graceful with myself being like, Vic, this is the first time I've ever handled this. And do you know what? The next time it happens, I'm gonna feel so much better because I know how to handle it and to go about it. Um, but people don't speak about that either because you don't even want to admit you're wrong online. Like for you to go on and be like, oh, I've had a really bad month this month, like for me to go on and be like, I need some new clients, I'm really not doing very well. That's it doesn't look good for your reputation and what people are gonna think. And it's so hard to know the fine balance of what we should and shouldn't be sharing. Have you had anything so far, or has it been that moment where you've been like, I don't even know if we can carry on this business, or has it luckily not gotten to that point yet?

SPEAKER_01 18:04

No, I think it honestly did get to that point, and I think that's something that I wish was spoken about more online that there are certain catastrophes that happen. Yeah, you're this close to closing your business, and I always think like every day it can end. Yeah, like you just don't know, nothing's permanent. Yeah, it's so weird. I'm always sometimes I have these like irrational thoughts at night, and like I'm just like, what if my suppliers go bust? Like, what if I don't have a manufacturer tomorrow? What am I gonna do? Like, there's all these things, and I think it's really you know what, it's a scary thought, but it's really nice to know that you are in the same boat as everybody else, and no one's you know, no one's better than you, no one's got that sort of leg up that you don't have in terms of like a business potentially closing. Um, and I think that was definitely a catastrophe for us because it affected cash flow so badly and you know, cash is king. So when you don't have that, I mean the decisions that you make afterwards are gonna be affected by it, and not only to mention not only to add you know, add on from that, but my mental health was obviously like going through because I feel like as you say, the highs are so amazing, but dealing with financial stress is another difficulty that again, not spoken about online, happens to the best of us, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

And have you put anything in place so that when things like that happen again, you'll be able to mentally deal with it better, or do you think it just is that case of I've been for it before I'm now to deal with it again? I think it really is that to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yes, because you just don't know when it is gonna happen again. You don't know when it comes to, I guess, with fashion and ordering stock, it is one of those things where you're forecasting a little bit. You can only hope that you hit those numbers and you can put your time, money, resources, energy into making sure you know a certain amount of people order X amount, but at the end of the day, it's also like not up to you as well. So I think it's being mentally prepared. But if you are having those good months, keep that cash to the side. Yeah, as you say, like don't be doing silly hires, don't be getting a new big office. Like, if these if these expenses don't make sense just because you're seeing it online, absolutely do not do it, it's not worth it. It's all vanity at the end of the day. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Like, I used to be so obsessed with like um making it look like I had a huge team because then everyone would be like, She's so successful and she's so cool. She has this big team. And then when I had the team, I was like, I don't want the team anymore. Like, I can't I can't deal with that. So if you think about like your toughest moments have been almost like finances and team, how have you so if you go on to like the team side, yeah, what are some things that you've biggest lessons you've learned and how you're a better manager today? Like, what are some things that you kind of got wrong at the start where you're like, I would never do that again?

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Oh my goodness. First one that's come to my head is um keeping people on for too long. Yeah. Like higher fast, fire fast. Yeah. Oh, 100% what I mean. Like that mentality is just, I think it's needed because you'll just sit and fester with this feeling and you know that that person's just not right for the company or whatever reason it is. And it's about like growing a pair and like you know, I need to just saying it, like I need to do it. And I think I've uh go going back to me being an empath, I find it really difficult to be able to let someone go. And it's never personal, you know, it's never like, oh, you know, you've done something to me. It's not that, but it's just about putting on your big girl pants on saying, like, you know what, you're just not right. And I think not doing that quick enough is such a hindrance. You lose money, you lose time, like it's just all these things that could be going towards fueling the business and making better decisions. And I think wasting a lot of time not making the right decisions is honestly sometimes one of the worst things that you can do as a founder.

SPEAKER_02 21:59

Yeah, and I think the whole Team can sense it as well, like they kind of can lose respect for you by putting up and tolerating with certain behaviour. And one way I've tried to think about it because I'm such an empath, and I think, well, you know, I'm I'm getting rid of their salary, they might need that to pay their mortgage or or whatever it might be. And also, there's the added stress of are they going to take it to social media and say, I worked under and this is what happened. Like so many things to sort of like think about there. But the way I've thought about it, and also have sometimes described it to people that I've had to let go instead that you've got a person in business and you've got a person out of business. So like I've got some of my bestest friends that I would never want to work with because they're just so I'm chaotic. I wouldn't want to work with me. Like, so I always say to them, you know, as a person, because I've had some people that have been a lovely person and I'd be friends with them. Yeah. But for the business, they've not got the right work ethic or they've not got the right mentality. And it's just I try and separate the person and like the work they do almost, so that it's like this truly is nothing personal. It's just it's not making me money and it's not adding to the energy of the team. Because do you have your team in house or do you have them remote?

SPEAKER_01 23:12

We have them remote. So the team is rather scattered, but um, so we had an office, don't have it anymore because it doesn't make sense. Like if it's not making sense money-wise, I'm not gonna have it, I'm not gonna keep it for the vanity. So I did have a couple of the girls come to the office, but now we just make do and we find spaces to make it work because I want the b I want the best of the business. I couldn't care about how I look on social media, I just want to do right in order to build something so amazing. And you know, your first five years are the toughest, you're gonna see super highs where you can do all of those amazing stuff, but you're gonna see lows too, and it's completely okay. Yeah. Um, but for the moment we're remote and we work so so well together.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

That's so good. Because I know that, like, when if I was in your position a couple years ago, I would have kept that office so it looks like I've got an office. And to be like, look at me with my girly glam office, and I want to show that I've got a team. So I bet even that was hard to just like almost like swallow the pride and just be like, this is what's best for the business, not how it looks.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

100%. Like you've got to put your ego to the side, and that's one thing I've learned. Like, there's no point having an ego in this game.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

And it doesn't even feel good to you in the moment. Like, I would do things and just be like, it looks great, but I feel just really crappy and low about it.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

So, on like the positive side of business, let's flip on to that. What has been the biggest? Like, I always call it like your out-of-body moment when you've just had the best highlight in your business so far where you've just felt you can't even put it into words how like incredible it has been.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Straight one again for me that came into my head was Forbes 30 under 30 last year. I actually can't deal with that. I just it was it was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Insane.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Like it was such an it was an out-of-body experience. Like genuinely, I remember I I woke up and I am that person that checks her phone first thing. Yeah, me too. I'm not that person that has it aside, like I do check it. And I remember I just looked and I saw an email there, and it said, congratulations, you are part of Forbes, and I couldn't read the rest of it because my eyes had just opened, and I was like, You're what? Was it just like you were like, This is a scam? Yeah, I was like, this must be a scam. Like I only I literally I applied myself, I just submitted it for myself, and then that was it. Like, I just didn't hear it. You didn't have like any inking or anything. I had a questionnaire that they'd sent like a few months later, yeah, but then after that, nothing. Yeah, literally nothing. Like I I even forgot about it, I think. And then I got it, and I remember running downstairs. I went down, I was like to my mum and my dad, I was like, Oh my god, I've gotten into Forbes. First, my dad was like, Oh, what's Forbes again? And I was like, This is Forbes, like this, this, I'll show him, and he was like, Oh my god, and I was explained to my mum, and I was like, you know, it's harder to get into Forbes than it's to get into Oxford or Cambridge. My mum's like, what? And I was like, It's huge.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Like, I was trying to explain it to I think it was like my dad or my dad's partner, um, and I was just like, it's like, it's not even Forbes 30 in the 30 UK, it's your perfect like you are the third, like under 30 years of age, the most successful 30 people in one category. Like I think that's what it is. Yeah, no, you've got like one, yeah. Like that is an insane achievement, yeah. And to like let that sink in and be like, that is what I've been chosen for is just insane.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

I still doesn't feel real. It's nearly been a year, but I'm just like, how? Like how old are you now?

SPEAKER_02 26:48

28. That's crazy. Yeah, and I as well, I always say to people, when you've had a business that's grown so fast, you've had to cram so much knowledge into such a short space of time. So I think it just it really I would say it matures me. I'm 25, but I'm 40. Like I tell everyone I'm like, I'm 40 because like the conversations I've had to have and like the things I've experienced, no one my age has experienced that. And you can't even like put it into words. So being your age and having a team that are most of them similar age to you, would you say?

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Yeah, I'd yeah, I'd say a little bit older, a little bit younger, but not too far.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

How have you found managing a team that are of pretty much the same age? Because I know there's loads of you shouldn't be friends with your team, your team shouldn't be your family, and like I found it quite difficult having a team that's the same age as me or a bit older, a bit younger, me telling them what to do sometimes can be a problem. Yeah. So, what have you found with the age thing? Has it been an issue or not?

SPEAKER_01 27:47

I don't think it's been an issue, but I will say that lines can blur very quickly, and I think it's about steering it back on track just as fast. Um and I think that we have a balance. Um, it's really, really difficult not to see my girls not as family. Yeah, it is really hard because we are honestly like in the trenches every day, like whether it's a good day, whether it's a bad day. And you know, we're the girls who work for me with we're full-time, so it's like we're in each other's lives day in, day out. If I need them on the weekend, you know, they're there, and it's like we really are building something. And I think a startup culture is like that. You see the worst of people, you see the best, and it's really difficult not to have that sort of care and family aspect to the to the girls on the team. But I've always made it very clear that we when we work, we work, and when we have fun, we really do have fun. But I think those lines for the girls and for myself, we don't seem to abuse them, and maybe that's because I found a really good bunch of girls and they get it, they know that we're here to work and we need we we've got targets in mind, and I think setting that precedent at the beginning of the week, like a Monday, is always like we have a little chit-chat and then we get right into things, and then by the time Friday rolls around, we're all sort of like laughing and it's all happy families again. But like we know, and I've sort of instilled that, but I'm not perfect, you know, and like I feel like there are some times where we do get a little bit carried away, and yeah, you have to steer it in. But I think it's all about building that work culture where you feel like you do want to come to work because like you can probably relate to me, like going to a nine to five, you don't you didn't even want to go in. No, so it's like, what's the point of treating your staff like you they don't want to be there? Like as long as you know, treat them well, and I am sure that they're gonna want to work their asses off to make sure that this company goes so far.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

Yeah, but I think you're so right, like you can't be perfect, and everyone's management style is totally different as well. So, like, there's some people who I've had on the pod that they want their team to be in every day, there's some that are remote every single day, there's some that are best mates with the team, there's some that are not close to them at all. I think it completely depends on you as a person. Um, I ever think it's so much like it'll be something as simple as my team have asked me to go out for a drink after work. And I'm like, should I go? Should I not? Is that am I crossing a line? Am I and then my mum's like, Vic, like you're with them every day, like you're allowed to go and like be yourself. Because I think for ages I was like, I need to behave like a manager and a boss and have no emotion. And like, but it was just exhausting to not be myself. Like, do you feel like you've got your more like you know, you're like your CEO energy that you like step into, or do you feel like you're just Sophia everywhere?

SPEAKER_01 30:41

I feel like I am Sophia everywhere, and it's like I've tried, I've I've I've tried to do the whole like let me be a manager today. And by the end of the day, I just I just fall out of it. It's like I'm being someone I'm not, and I really don't think that you cannot achieve the results by being you. I just think there needs to be like a bit of discipline in place, some boundaries there, but I think if you if your team value what you're building, it won't get disrespected. Like no matter if you do go for a drink with them after work, like it's so fine, like you're so allowed to do that. And if they respect you and they respect the business, then they'll want to see you have your hair down. Like it's it's gonna be just as much as fun for them as it is for you, and I and I think that's okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

What's been your sort of daily routine as the manager and the leader? Like, have you really found where you flourish and where you should be and where you shouldn't be, or is every day different and you're just trying to figure it all out?

SPEAKER_01 31:38

You know what? I think recently we've established a bit of a like a routine because I will say for the first like three years, it was on a bad day, I wasn't doing my non-negotiables. Whereas now it's like I've learned that a bad day is gonna come regardless. No matter what you do, you can't actually avoid them like all the time. So I'm like, I always go for my run in the morning, the team know I go for a run. I really like that they know that I do something for myself in the morning. I just feel like for them it's really nice for them to see that you know she's waking up, she's doing something for herself. So I always go for some sort of exercise in the morning. Um, and then we don't have meetings until 11. Like I set that in place because I just want people to have their their own morning routines as well. Because I never had one when I was working, and I really wanted people to have that because it's such good quality of life being able to do that. So yeah, make sure we all have a morning routine um and then start meetings at 11 if we do have any, cut them off at a reasonable time. And then the girls do know that I work a bit afterwards as well, because like at the end of the day, I want to be the first one to start and the last one to go home. And I feel that there's a few things that you can do as a founder that sets those little boundaries and reminders to your team that you know what I'm working hard, if not harder, than everybody, and at least I can have my hair down when I want to. Yeah, yeah. So there needs to be time for that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

So, what do you think then? So, we've talked about like daily habits and and self-care and things like that. Have you found it easy to implement things like running or mindset, you know, going out for a walk, going out on the weekend, or do you think that's sort of a newer thing you've found with like work-life balance? Have you found that tricky to solve? Tricky.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Yeah, because I think the problem with me, um, and I think a lot of other founders will relate to this, but you just get so consumed by everything, all the fires, all the problems, like it consumes you so much to the point that you don't want to go out in the evening and spend time with a friend, or you don't even like sometimes I don't even have time for my family, and you know what, it feels really bad. And and there are gonna be times and months and years where you're you're just gonna want to grind it out. Um, but I think I've learned very recently that it's not the be all and end all, and I'd rather not literally work myself to the ground because if I'm not mentally there and I'm not mentally solid, then how am I gonna tackle half the problems I have? Like it's not worth it. So it's been tricky and it's been mind over matter. Like you've gotta show up for yourself even if you don't want to. And I know that sounds like so bizarre because it's so you one could argue it's really easy to have an evening to yourself and put on Netflix, but to someone who's a workaholic who wants their brand to grow, like that's not an easy task. Like, it's not easy to put the laptop away, like you want it strapped to you, and I think it's learning that it's okay to rest and it's okay to just rejuvenate for an evening, like nothing's gonna happen, nothing's gonna turn. No one's gonna die. I'm gonna die.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

And suppose it's the most productive thing you can do, isn't it? Like I feel so good sometimes. Like if me, because I work with my sister, so if we take a spa day, yeah, we're like, I'm like, get off your phone and read a book, like to go and do something else, and you feel panic, and you probably get loads of messages when you're away. But if you're not at your best, your business can't be either. And it's so evident, like whenever I go through times where my self-care lacks, that's when my business lacks, and you know the two sort of loop together, don't they? Yeah. Um, how was like how have you found your friends and family supporting you? Like, have they been behind you? Have have your family been like, you're starting a lingerie brand? Like what you're doing? Like, how has that been for you? The support from them?

SPEAKER_01 35:24

I always get this question from especially uh South Asian girls, because I'm of the South Asian heritage, people are like, Were your parents not just like, what the heck are you doing? And actually, they weren't. Like, I think at the beginning, if I had maybe if I'd gone to them saying, Oh, I want to start this business and I hadn't finished my degree, yeah, that might have been a different story. Yeah. But I did it, I finished everything. To be honest, the idea wasn't there at the time. So actually, that there was no fear of me doing that before I'd gotten that law degree. But once I got the law degree, once I got in the job and I started it at the same time, I said to my parents, like, Oh, I'm not gonna leave, I'm gonna do it at the same time, right? To keep them happy almost. But then there just became a point where I was so unhappy with work. I was like, I'd rather just be honest with my parents and be like, I want to do it full time. And I went to them and I said, Listen, this is what I'm doing. Like they sort of knew what I was doing, but they thought it was more like a hobby. Um, and I was like, I'm not posting pictures in the underwear at the end of the day, like I think I'm good to run this business. And they were like, Yeah, like why not? Like it's not affecting anyone, and I was doing it for all the right reasons as well. Like, I really just wanted women to feel amazing about themselves, and I was so passionate about that. And I would literally tell them about it day in, day out about how I'm helping more people doing this. Like, Laura was never gonna do that behind a desk. I was almost becoming a barrister, like trying to convince my parents every night, but there wasn't much convincing, everybody was really on board. Um, I think friends were, but you know, naturally you do lose some along the way. I don't know, like sometimes they just don't get it. Um they don't get it, and that's completely fine as well. It is what it is. Um, I think extended family may be thinking some things, but who cares about those?

SPEAKER_02 37:16

And how have you found it being just a young woman as well in business? Like, do you find you have setbacks, people don't listen, you get treated any differently, or do you feel like it's it's been pretty smooth?

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Um, I think it's a difficult one because it depends who I speak to. I feel like there was a stage right at the beginning of the business where I was like, Oh, do I want investment? I don't know. I'd heard everyone I heard people talking about investment online, and I was like, maybe I should ask. Yes. You know, when you're like, Oh, maybe I should ask. Do I need that? Do I need it? Like, I don't know. So I remember speaking to some men um about investment, and I had some of the just the most like stupid responses, honestly. Like, what woman would want to buy this on repeat? Or what why would women want? And it's just like, why are you speaking? Like, why are you speaking? So there was a bit of that, um, a bit of friction, I think, of men not understanding the idea, but it's not for you to understand, respectfully. So a little bit of that, but in terms of my integrity as a business owner, um, it I don't feel like it's been threatened by a man or anyone of the sort. Amen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

So in terms of your offering and people saying, you know, it is a unique offering, like a monthly subscription, brilliant, because you get people to come back, which is amazing. Has it been quite easy to manage and retain customers, or do you have, I feel like everyone sometimes just has like a bit of headache customers and you know, complaints and the negativity? Like, how do you deal with that side of things?

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Yeah, I think in terms of retaining, we're doing pretty good at that. I think because we make it such a big thing every single month. We create a world around a set, like we don't just drop a set and put it in a polymeller and out it goes. Like we customize the box, we have a matching satin bag to the set, we have inserts that have like activities on the back in terms of like improving your mental health. Like, we have all these little added extras that we want to make the box feel like you can't live without us, and we make it really good value for money as well. So, in terms of making the experience a good one and sort of tweaking it here and there every month, just so you feel like you're getting that added bit of excitement and you feel like you don't always know what you're gonna get, and you are getting that element of surprise has been really good, but you are also not gonna please everybody. Um, and I learned that really quickly, um, especially when you're dealing with things like underwear, where I don't know, I've always said that being a part of the subscription, you need to be really open-minded about the kind of underwear you're gonna get. Like, you're not gonna just get a black and a white underwear, and I know so many girls that's what they want, and that's so fine, so okay. And it's about being able to put that across on socials, but then you will get the odd email, like, I hate the colour orange, and I never wanted this, like yeah, and I was just like, but um, the whole point is to be open-minded, otherwise just don't, like, because it's not for everybody, and I'm so aware of that, and I'm always like, if you're open for an experience of wanting to find certain colours and patterns that you didn't realise that you would like yourself, that that is where we become like a part to play with almost like a personal shopper in a way. Um, but I think at the beginning the customer service side of things really did affect me. That was like the first hire I made as well. It was customer service. Um, but now not blind to it because I'm very aware of everything that goes on just in all aspects of the business, but I'm very self-assured that I know that I've got a cult of girls that really love what we're doing. And just because I can't please the majority, that's so fine. Doesn't mean that we can't go on to be a successful business.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

And do you think that's taking a while for that mindset to come into place? Because you know, at the start, if it's like I don't like it, or it's the wrong colour, and like it always does set you back, especially when it's your first few negative reviews, like it really hurts, and you're like, you've not given it a chance, and you try and like really get in the head about it. Do you think it just has taking you time to be like, do you know what? I know my offering's good, I know it's strong, so if you don't like it, you're not for us, sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

It took a while, I think. I think it goes back to the empath. Like, I think I cried the first two few times, like the negative reviews came in, and it sounds really silly, but it's personal, like when you feel like you've put everything into it, but then you've got to learn it's not personal. Like customers don't realize certain things, like they don't realize there's you behind the brand, for example. Like, I feel like in recent years, I feel like I've stepped away a little bit from maybe being so front-facing on the business page, just because like I feel like I just want to establish the business for what it is as well. I'm here there, here I'm here sometimes, sorry, in the content, but not all the time. And like those people might not know, and even if they do know, it's so fine, like they're they're entitled to their opinions, and we're okay with that. And I think um even the girls who run customer service, they get a bit emotional about it as well because they bec they're they're so involved in the creative process of the sets, like all the girls have their own sort of parts to play in the business. But when it does come to the product, I don't know why we all get involved. But I think it's really good because at the end of the day, I want to know, like, as women, like, do we like these colours? Do we like the fit? And that's why it's so good having the female team because it's so easy to ask, like, someone with a bigger chest, someone with a smaller chest, or whatever it is, like it's really good to get that little bit of feedback and we're all on board, but at the same time, it does cut a little bit when we do get those negative feet that the negative reviews or the negative customer service um side of things. But it's taken time, but I think we're there now.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

And because the brand grew on social media and you have such a big presence on there as well. What have you found really works for you guys and what sit doesn't really always hit and you try to avoid doing now?

SPEAKER_01 43:10

What always works is integrating our product into like a how do I say this? Like a like the social, like a social example. So for example, we would pair our sets with like the dresses that they wore, the Oscars. Yeah, that's good. Like, I don't know, like we use like pop culture, that's good. Like we kind of like integrate it with the product, it always hits. I don't know why people love it. Um, maybe they like seeing the product integrated with things that we as women like and enjoy. Um, so they're really good, but I think the things that maybe don't work as well is honestly just like plain model material, like just standard e comm shots. Like they just never do their thing. I don't think it's interesting enough. I don't Think it's we have so much more to give that when we do like if I have like a day where we just don't know what to post on socials and we post something from a photo shoot, it just never pops off.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

No, no, it's good, it's really good that you recognise that because like me owning a social agency, I have to convince brands like that just doesn't work. Like, yeah, the stand the stuff you put on your website will not work as a social post because I think as well, we just live in this time where everything's an ad. So we see this like really polished high-end stuff, and we think you're trying to sell me something. Whereas if you just see a girl just like plonk her phone up in a bedroom and talk about something, you feel so much more connected. And also with like the trending topics and events and stuff, I think it works because it's like audience borrowing, so it's like this this huge audience is interested in the Oscars. So we're gonna borrow that audience and like bring it to Under and speak about that. So I think that's amazing that you've even understood sort of why that works and like why it hits and stuff. And do you try and like post quite regularly, or is that even something where you're like, you know, if you're really busy, that drops and something else attention has to go over here?

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Yeah, sometimes I think it's it's really funny because I obviously am not my like pop culture is not ingrained into my memory, so I won't know when the Oscars is on. But if I wake up and I've realized the Oscars are on, I'm like, girls, yeah, we need to make the post, like we need to do it now, like whatever we had in the calendar, get it out. We want to do it tomorrow. Like, we need to jump on this now. We do it all the time.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

Yeah, million percent. Yeah, um, what is something that you feel like isn't spoken enough as business owners than that you wish was more acceptable to speak about?

SPEAKER_01 45:35

I think back to what we were talking about at the beginning, I think it is those like financial pressures. I think it's one of those things where as you say, like, we don't know how people are gonna perceive us, but it happens to the best of us. And I think people who will be listening in, and if they own businesses, I reckon that they will feel like a weight is lifted off their shoulders, even just hearing it from just two successful founders that you can have money problems, like it happens, and you can have bad months, you can have good months. Like, we are speaking about it, but to the point where it can affect your mental health, like I don't see that online enough. And I think I want to be a bit more vocal about it, but again, I get a bit shy. I don't know how much I should say, yeah, even though I want to pull my heart out and say, like, it's been really bad, like, cash flow is so bad.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Yeah, like especially when you're scrolling and everyone's like, I'm doing this and I've got this collab and this is going well. And it's so hard to find what you should and shouldn't post. Like, I've had some days, like I had an example recently where like I had to like let someone go, and on the same day I posted a brand collab and I felt so fake, like I was like crying in bed, like upset and and panicked and stressed. And then I was like posting like hashtag collab and you know, everything looked great. But then I think to me that changes the way I use social media now because I think whenever I see anyone's post, I just take it with a pinch of salt, and I'm just like, you know, it's great to post your highlights, and I love posting my highlights, but ultimately we were posting that to stay connected with people, to show them what we're doing. We can't always speak about things in real time as well. So, like I always think about how I can post like big sister advice. So I try and wait a year or so until something's happened, the wound has healed, and then I can speak about it and like give my advice, but you should never do it as it's happening right now while the emotions are still fresh as well. Like that is tough. Yeah. Have you had any business mentors or people that you've worked with that have had an impact on you or like giving you any advice that's really stuck with you?

SPEAKER_01 47:37

I feel like I work with um my partner as well, who's also a co-founder as well. So he is a film director and he does directing, but he's got his own production company. So when I was learning the ropes of business, I learned a lot from him. Yeah. Um, and I feel like resilience was a huge thing that I learned from him. And seeing him go through like setbacks, and when I was just in my job at the time, I didn't quite understand it. And it's like having somebody that's on your side, but also can give you a bit of tough love, and to tell you that you know, this you didn't do so well, but this is how you should come back, or this is how I would come back from it. And I think for me, I I need a bit of that tough love because I think if everybody gave it treated me like with with just so much like niceness, and I just wouldn't change. Like, I don't know, like I feel like I need a little bit of steering into the right direction. I also get the same thing from my best friend. Again, she's not in the business world, she's in the creative industry, but the way she is as a as a woman, and I feel like she's so self-assured. I feel like when you run a business, almost that feeling of you being self-assured can sometimes get a bit lost. Like I get a lot of imposter syndrome. Sometimes I don't know if I'm good enough, I don't know if I what I'm doing is right, and I need these key players around me to sometimes just check me and be like, you know what, you've got this. And I know that's not exactly, they're not exactly mentors, but they're just huge, significant people in my life that have seen my lows, have seen my highs, and are they just know what to say to me. And I think that's really important. And it doesn't have to be someone in the world of business, it could just be somebody that just gets you.

SPEAKER_02 49:25

Yeah, yeah. And I love like I think when you're doing something as big as this, you have to be surrounded by people that are very self-assured and they've done the mindset work because you can't really put into words some of the stuff you have to deal with. It's serious shit. Like it's serious shit. It's really serious, it's scary, it's some of it can be like legal stuff, like it's terrifying. And sometimes when you do go and speak to friends that um they don't own a business or they don't understand what you're doing, and they're like whinging about someone's boyfriend or gossiping about stuff, you're kind of just like, you do don't get what I'm dealing with right now. And sometimes it's a good thing because you want to switch off and you do just want to chat with your girls and like speak about people you went to school with 10 years ago. Like that, there's nothing better than that. But I I think you've also got to have people that own a business, so that I just love the quick reassurance of like texting one of my business friends and being like, oh my god, I've lost this huge client today, like really struggling, blah blah blah. And they'll be like, same lol, like we're fine, like it happens, we'll get it back up again. And just having that like outlet is so comforting. And I love it. I'm gonna finish on a quick fire round. Okay, okay. Let's go. You'd have to be quick, quick, because I feel like we tend to yap as girls. Um, what was your most recent business-related cry or just mental breakdown that you've had? Oh, um cash flow pinch.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Yeah. It just happens every now and then. So just be crying about it.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

Can't help the tears. I feel like I had a cry recently. Oh, I yeah, I had a cry because we just had um a huge client just disappear and they owe us like loads of money and they just disappeared. And I do think for us, I don't know whether it's just me saying it in my head, it's an age thing, but I do think it's an age thing that a lot of people are like, I could just not pay you, what are you gonna do about it? Sort of thing. So that, but then I also I was um in my Lucial phase on my in my cycle. So same thing. I was just you know, when you don't, you know, it's like a big cry, it's just like, oh my god's sake. This is overwhelming, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:28

Yeah, you just say for me, it's that like you know, I don't know if you've seen those memes on Instagram, and it's like on Friday you can have 30,000 pounds in your bank, and on Monday you have£1.50. Yeah, it's like that, like balancing those emotions. Like that can be a lot.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

Yeah, and even are you someone that that knows their numbers, or are you like, I've got someone who knows my numbers for me?

SPEAKER_01 51:49

Yeah, I have got someone who knows their numbers, but I'm very much encouraged as a CEO to learn my numbers.

SPEAKER_02 51:56

Yeah, so I think it's again one of those things that we should do, and I would say I know them like briefly, yeah, but and I I know when that I need to know something, yeah, but I have my partner and he knows my numbers, like he's our ops director, so he knows everything about the business, and I think that's okay. And I used to be really embarrassed to say, I don't really know my numbers. No, I think it's fine, but I'm like, I don't have enough time to know everything.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

So um, what is a quote that you live by? Everything happens for a reason. Yes, like I've said that from the since I was young, yeah. Like anything that happens, I'm just like it has to happen for a reason, it might not make sense right now. Yeah, um, like I remember back in the day I failed my A levels and I felt like it was the end of the world and I didn't understand why that happened. But then, like when the course of life happened and certain you met certain people because you failed that and then you're like, oh, I'm here now. That made sense.

SPEAKER_02 52:53

Yeah, and I think especially with the bad things in business, what I hate but love is that if I look back on the worst, most hardest things I've been through, all of them have bettered our business. Of course. So, like every single one, I'm like, I'm so glad that happened. But at the time, you're like, How am I supposed to actually get through this? Yeah, I think it's one of those quotes that's like it's a cliche, but it's so true, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 53:17

Cliche, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

Like I've had so many things where I'm like, it was like when I was looking at buying my first house, I had this one I was set on, and I knew I you know, when you're like manifesting, I was like, I've got it, I can envision the rooms, I've already got it. And then we didn't get it because I had to have, I think when you're self-employed, you have to have like two years on your books or whatever, and I had like not enough yet. And then anyway, we didn't get it, and then now I'm in my house and I prefer it over the first house. Yeah, I always go back to that. Um, what has been your proudest moment so far?

SPEAKER_01 53:45

Proudest moment, um, probably Forbes. Yes, it's still up there, it's still fresh for me. It's gotta be Forbes.

SPEAKER_02 53:53

You've gotta like frame that. Have you framed it? No, you should print that and frame that and put it in your little office. I should do that. That's iconic, iconic. I remember I I saw that on TikTok, I think when it first happened, and I was like, is this AI? Like I was just like, this is crazy, like it's just huge. Um, what is a book or movie that's changed your life?

SPEAKER_01 54:17

Shoe dog by Phil Knight. Oh, is that the one about Knight? I've not watched that. It's so the this this the book, the so the film is very different from the book, but the book is incredible. Oh, okay. Like I was like, my eyes were open in terms of like business problems. Like, if you want to know about a business problem and like one that's like one that you and I have never faced, read that book. Oh my god, the problem adding that to the list. That's huge.

SPEAKER_02 54:44

Is the film good then, or is just the book bad?

SPEAKER_01 54:46

I think the the film is more like uh theatrics and doesn't really go into like the hardships of Nike, whereas the book is the story of Nike and how it literally struggled for 15 years to be profitable. They were like um on track to like be profitable, and then all of a sudden they got like a tax bill from the US government for like 25 million pounds, and he was like, I don't have that in my bank account. What am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_02 55:13

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

And it's like those things that we maybe feel on a smaller scale, but then you read the book and you're like, Oh my goodness, like how does how do you deal with that? Now everyone knows Nike, and it's like yeah, that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 55:26

Like everything we only see the end result on social media, like it's the long-term gain of like I've been doing this for 10 years, like I've been doing this for like 15 years, but we see the end bit, and we're like, I want that. Yeah, but it's like, are you willing to go through the 10 years like prior to that? Which most people cannot.

SPEAKER_00 55:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 55:43

What is one thing you cannot live without as a business owner?

SPEAKER_01 55:49

I'm gonna be so typical at my phone.

SPEAKER_02 55:51

Yeah. Where would I be without my phone? Yeah, it's a good thing and a bad thing, isn't it? I've tried. Do you know what I need to get one of those blocks? Have you seen it? Like a square. They're called block, and they're this is hashtag not sponsored, and it should be. So it's like a tiny block and you buy it and you go and put it in your house somewhere, and you can only go on social media or whatever app you want to use if you go actively go and walk to the block and tap your phone on it. So you get the block, you can like put limits on it. So it might say past 7 p.m. social media's blocked. So I'd be on my phone, it would just go off and say, if you want to go back on it, you've got to get out of bed, go downstairs and put your thing on, which I think is so clever because I'd be like, Oh, I can't be asked to do that, so I'm not gonna do it. So I need to get one of those. Um, what's one person you couldn't live without as a business owner?

SPEAKER_01 56:40

Probably my dad.

SPEAKER_02 56:42

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 56:43

Yeah, like my dad just gets my struggle in a different kind of way. Like, my dad came to this country when he was like 13. He came with his brother, he didn't come with his parents, and the life he was able to build, like not having parents around and being able to give that to me and my sister. Like when I tell him I have a problem, like sometimes he just like he laughs and it makes me feel good because my dad's just like he'll be fine, like you'll be good. Like, you've got your problems, but like you're literally you've got a roof over your head, you've got food on the table, like we're here if you need us. Like, you don't need to worry about anything, and it's like having that person in my life is like so like uh so important. Is he quite entrepreneurial? Not even like it's super random. My dad was a software engineer, so he was in a nine to five. Like, my mum's a teacher as well. The person who was an entrepreneur was my granddad, who had a um like a health food shop, so it was like Holland and Barrett, but like not, it was like an independent one that he had in East London, and it was like the first one before Holland and Barrett, and he would be so busy. But he was the only person that I knew was an entrepreneur, but he unfortunately passed away before he even got to see me do like anything entrepreneurial. So I was just a bit like whenever I think, oh, who did I get it from? I was like, must be my granddad. Yeah, just skipped a generation. Just skipped a generation and then then landed on me. At least your dad's got that mindset that you've got to do it. Yeah, he's come from hardship, so it's like I can kind of like that. I will never I never had to face when I was younger. So at least, like, there's that, which is you know, really, really hard to go through. So shout out to dad. Shout out to dad.

SPEAKER_02 58:22

What is your daily non-negotiable? Like rain or shine, it's gotta be done.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

Oh, um, daily non-negotiable. This sounds really silly. Like doing my hair, yeah. Yeah, it makes such a big difference, doesn't it? I need to have my hair done, yeah. Even if it's a slick back, which I tend to do. Slick back and grateful.

SPEAKER_02 58:42

Like, I'm like, I've not washed my hair in 10 days. So it's gonna be a slip back. Today I did, but prior to this, like 10 days straight, there was no wash. Like my fiance, he um he I think he's never had his eyes open to how long a girl can go without washing her hair. Because I'm like, you actually don't understand how much of a commitment it is to wash my hair. It takes me like an hour and then I have to like dry it, and then I have to style it, and then the next day it's like usually all frizzy and stuff. Yeah. And I'm like, if I can slick back it for one more day, I absolutely will. 100%. And it makes you look more put together as well. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 59:15

I love a slick back.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

I do think I'm starting to recede though.

SPEAKER_01 59:18

Same my hairliners, my parting's like sparsing, and I'm like, okay, we'll do that. We'll do that later. Do we need that later? I need the boss babe look altogether.

SPEAKER_02 59:26

And then what is something that you feel pressured to be great at as a business owner that you don't feel like you've quite mastered yet?

SPEAKER_01 59:34

I think it's my numbers. Yeah, yeah. I think it is like I think there's so much pressure to get it right, and you do need to know your numbers, like absolutely. But I will say that it was something that I just gradually got better at. So maybe at the beginning, like, don't make any rash financial decisions if you're not too well versed. Like, keep it small so you can understand the slight numbers and then build your knowledge up. I think the problem was because we went from here to here so quickly, I didn't have time to learn, where I wish I did have the time to be able to sit down and understand certain things with numbers, then it maybe could have avoided certain mistakes that did occur.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:13

Yeah, and you can be like smarter with money and you know, like getting a tax bill down and what's an expense, what's not an expense. Like I feel like that just goes over my head. And also, you know, like when you do have quieter months, I used to get anxious about looking. I'd be like, I don't want to look at the PL. I'd be like, Yeah, literally. Someone else can do it for me. But someone else can do that. Um, well, Sophia, thank you so much for joining me. That's been a very refreshing conversation, and I'm sure a lot of people will find a lot of comfort in hearing us speak about these things. Have you got anything you want to plug or promote? Like, where can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:48

Oh, people can find me on every kind of social area, like Instagram, there's underofficial, there's me, Sophia Panwa, or there's TikTok as well. Same handles, and yeah, you can find out everything we're doing on there, all the crazy stuff we got do. Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Sophia.