How to orchestrate your success with Delphi and David, Founder of By Teddy

In this week's episode of Business Class, Vicky Owens sits down with Delphi and David, the husband and wife founders behind By Teddy, one of the UK's fastest growing pet lifestyle brands.

In just a few short years, By Teddy has grown from an idea into a nationally recognised business, securing partnerships with major retailers including John Lewis, Pets at Home, Pets Corner and Very. But behind the growth is a story of persistence, strategic networking, bold decision-making and building a brand customers genuinely love.

In this episode, Delphi and David share the realities of scaling a product-based business, navigating cash flow challenges, securing retail partnerships and growing a brand in a highly competitive market.

Together, Vicky, Delphi and David discuss:

• How By Teddy went from startup to stocked in major retailers
• Building a business with your partner
• The challenges of scaling a fast-growing e-commerce brand
• How to get your products into major retailers
• The power of networking and relationship building
• Why persistence is one of the most underrated business skills
• Cash flow, inventory management and growth challenges
• Leveraging TikTok Shop and social media for business growth
• Brand collaborations and creating standout marketing moments
• Building a premium brand in a crowded market
• Lessons learned from rapid business growth
• Advice for aspiring entrepreneurs and founders

Whether you're launching a product-based business, building an e-commerce brand or looking to scale your company, this episode is packed with practical insights and actionable advice from two founders who are doing exactly that.

🎉 This episode is sponsored by Plannerly

Plannerly is the all-in-one creator toolkit designed to help you plan content, schedule posts, manage your social media workflow and grow your business online.

👉 Use code VICKY10 for 10% off your Plannerly plan.

Subscribe to Business Class with Vicky Owens for weekly conversations with founders, entrepreneurs and business leaders sharing the lessons behind their success.

Produced by TAEPodcast www.taepodcast.co.uk

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome forward to business cleaning. If you were on your journey to success, you'll be sharing the ups, the dumms, and everything in between. Just a disclaimer that this is all my own and famous and what if you want works for me as a first-hand business owner. So please take everything I'm gonna say with a pinch of salt. So take your seats, strip a pin, and welcome forward to business committee. Hello, happy Monday and welcome to business class. I've got another really exciting guest episode today. And I've got the incredible dynamic duo couple, Delphi and David, who are the owners of Buy Teddy. By Teddy, I would say is such a rapidly growing dog brand. Like they do dog beds, they do dog outfits, they've got loads more going on in 2026. They have scaled this brand so quickly. They've collaborated with the likes of Odd Muse, John Lewis, Pets at Home, so many more that we speak a little bit about in this episode that I don't know if I can actually speak about myself, but they're just incredible and they've done it in such a short space of time. Their episode that we've just filmed was literally just touching on how they've managed to do so much of what they've done by making the right connections, just asking for the things that you want, outwardly getting it. Like they are so strategic in how they've planned that almost like none of this is an accident. So I'm really, really excited to get into this today. If you are someone that's just starting a business and you're kind of in that slump of wanting to wanting to get it off the ground, how do you get in front of the right people? How do you make those connections and get the ball rolling? This is the episode to listen to. And it was also there was so many golden nuggets in here. So I'm really excited for you to tune in and listen. So let's get on in to today's episode. Hi, Doug. Hi, David. Hi. Welcome to business class. So excited to have you both here today. And we've also got our first furry guest in today. We do. We've got Theodore. How are you feeling about him being there?

SPEAKER_03 2:02

I'm so worried he's gonna be naughty.

SPEAKER_05 2:04

I think he's gonna be naughty. He's just having a bit of a clean. He's having a clean. Can we see it? Oh, there we go.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Yeah, they can see him. Okay, go. We should be able to see him. He's just repping the brand today by Teddy, of course. So I want to start this conversation off a bit before the business and with you two. So, how did you both meet and like end up being business partners?

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Um, do you want to take this one?

SPEAKER_05 2:27

It's gonna be I mean, you take it. I mean, we've been together for what, 12. Well done.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

Well done, and that he gets it right. He still can't remember my birthday, but so yeah, we haven't every time he has to put fill in a form, he's like, Is it what day is it?

SPEAKER_05 2:40

Yeah, I kind of do that as a bit of a joke.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

He does it a bit of a done.

SPEAKER_05 2:43

Um yeah, it's been 12 years, but you know, we only started by Teddy two years ago, so there's obviously 10 years of backstory. Do you want to take that?

SPEAKER_03 2:51

Yeah, so we met at school. Oh so we've known of each other since we were like 12, 13. Oh, both went to the same school, yeah, and then we ended up together when we were like 17, 18-ish. Oh yeah, it's crazy, and then we've been together ever since. It's been it was very full-on from the beginning. Like, I moved in to his parents when I was 18. So I've like we've lived together. Yeah, we went to unis that were like super close as well. So he went to Bournemouth, I went to Southampton, so it was like really easy to like stay together, like we didn't have to do long distance, and then we both did like placement years, and we both like stayed together through all of that, and now commuted to work together. Commuted to work together, literally lived with your parents for a long time, which there was a time where we had to move. Um, and then we bought our first place together. Literally, it's been like very smooth sailing, like we've never really had any drama or anything, it's always just been very easy, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:45

Always very kind of if we get in an argument, it's always about kind of the most trivial thing.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

Like it's like um bickering, yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_05 3:54

This morning I got told off for wearing all chocolate brown because it wouldn't because it wouldn't go with the set.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

She thinks of these things rather, like you need someone to think of these things, which is incredible. Yeah, what do you think has been like what is the secret for a long-lasting relationship? Do you guys think that's such it?

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Um, I wouldn't say we're sometimes like the best at communication, but communication is definitely key. I think trust and it has to be easy, like you shouldn't have to work really hard for it, like it should just like naturally happen. Like everything's always like worked out really nicely and might magically happen at like the right time. Hello, you're off here, and have a de fur baby and have a dog, get a dog, that's like the best.

SPEAKER_05 4:34

I think just have like a laugh and be silly and have a good time.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

Yeah, exactly. And I also just like finding your match, like we both like very similar things when it comes to like our music taste, or like how we like to travel and things like that. That's very important.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Do you also like balance each other out, like especially in business? Like, what would you say each other's like strengths and weaknesses are within the business?

SPEAKER_05 4:56

So, I mean, I I would say naturally, and um, this isn't like putting anything down on down on Delphi again. But I've I guess I'm kind of maybe more god, this sounds so egotistic, but I've kind of framed this in such a wrong way, but I've probably always been more of like that entrepreneurial character.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

Yeah, no, he's right. I I can get into my side on it as well, but he is totally.

SPEAKER_05 5:17

And I've kind of like moulded and like forced Delphi into into that world. So I think sort of that whole creative side definitely comes from from my side, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

Yeah, no, definitely. He's like, it's much more like natural for David, and he has like a very specific vision. Whereas I I think, but you were kind of like, I guess like encouraged a little bit more, and I think your environment that you grew up in, if we're gonna go deeper, like from a young age, you started a business with your friend, you like did a lot of like music producing, like it's very like creative, always knew you wanted to start your own business out of uni, like this is always what he was saving towards. Whereas like my background is very much like I was a lot more shy, I like hated like drama and things like that, would never like put myself out there, and I knew after university I just wanted a stable job. Yeah, and I when I I mean my career was just at L'Oreal for like six years, and I just always saw myself being at L'Oreal till I was like 60, 70, till I retired. Like that's what I thought my future was. Um, so it's very different in terms of like the way you grew up, like you always had that entrepreneurial entrepreneurial bug where he was always we'd go to like the pub and all he'd talk about was his business ideas, or we'd be in the car on the commute to London, always like, what do you think of this idea? What do you think of this name all the time? So it's we've got very different skill sets.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

And then where does Buy Teddy like how does that happen?

SPEAKER_05 6:43

So I guess so. I mean, we started Buy Teddy in April 2024, so it's been like two years now, and I guess it's just off the back of kind of what Delphi was saying, like everything that we've kind of been like, or sort of the ideas and kind of just life, and then it all accumulated to kind of this moment really of I've like people kind of say like success happens overnight, but I guess by teddy was like, like I said, that accumulation of going through loads of different entrepreneurial ventures and having loads of failures and like things being like a disaster going back into like the corporate world, learning so much more and um just kind of having a bit more of an understanding of like crafting and building brands and propositions and kind of just having a bit more I don't know, foresight and I don't know, understanding of how to kind of view you know categories and consumers, etc. So I kind of like went on that own own journey, and then I guess at a stage, you know, we decided to to get a dog.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

Um yes, and then as soon as we decided to get a dog, like even pre-theater, it was like you were literally working on building by Teddy for a year. He was like doing all the sampling, like all of the product ideation, like the brand. He created like a hundred page page Canva document on what the brand should look like, who our target persona was.

SPEAKER_05 8:01

Kind of a pointless activity, like you don't need to create an 100 page, but it but it makes it real, yeah. It makes it feel real, like all of the packaging mock-ups and how the and it kind of just brings it to life in your brain. It's like, oh shit, this is actually like could happen.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

Yeah, exactly. Like it wasn't just like oh we decided to launch a car see, and that's like kind of how it happened. It was like there was a lot of thought and like articulation I think that went into it.

SPEAKER_05 8:22

But essentially, yeah, we were thinking of of getting a dog um or puppy for the first time, and then just like the way that my sort of brain starts working is well, first you start looking for like let's what like what things are we gonna get for our dog? What better are we gonna get? And we just couldn't find anything out there at all that kind of connected with you know our own personal style or our aesthetic or kind of things that we we really really liked. And then my so I worked at Unilever for a couple of years, and what's very sort of Unilever is they kind of deeply ingrained kind of this whole thing around like what's the consumer insight, build the concept, what's that concept based on, what's that, and it's all got to be based on data and like how consumers are feeling in the world and whatever it's based on, etc. So I kind of took that sort of Unilever brain that had been sort of molded into me just for a couple of years and said, okay, what's really going on here in the category? Where's the growth coming from in the category? Like, how are these people feeling? And yeah, really took a step back, and essentially what we found was where the growth of you know the pet space or the dog space in particular was coming from was you know, people like ourselves, you're like young couples. I think it was something like 18 to um 30% of 18 to 24 year olds got a dog during lockdown, yeah, and then that same cohort of consumers spend 30% more on their pets than any other generation, then you kind of start going into it a bit deeper, and you could start looking at kind of the micro macro economic lens and the cost of living and kind of everything that's going on, like people like us, like not having children or having children much later, or getting married much later, really difficult to get on the housing ladder, all of these different things. And what's happening is these people are choosing to get dogs, and the way that they're you know, the relationships they then have with their dogs are way more sort of dramatized or um maternal, or it's called like the humanization, the humanization of pets is like the phrase that's kind of used. Yeah, it's like our baby, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 10:19

Yeah, but like it's their child. It's actually a lot more deeper than humanization of pets now.

SPEAKER_05 10:24

Because I think it's the way it actually manifests in people's lifestyles now, in terms of how deeply integrated their dogs are into their lives, is so so different to what it's ever been before. And I think that and you know, we kind of took that kind of viewpoint and said, you know what, there isn't actually a brand that is speaking to this kind of consumer or this person or this demographic or whoever it might be. Um it sounds quite clinical the way I'm talking about it now, rather than kind of a you know, a deep passion of you know, we just wanted to start a start a dog brand. But kind of that's where it essentially stemmed from was kind of seeing that opportunity for, you know, as much as the market was extremely saturated with so many brands, so many people kind of doing the same things, that was kind of almost the opportunity because it was so saturated, but saturated with stuff that wasn't actually meeting those elevated expectations that was actually growing the category.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

So yeah, it's the same. Well, we were looking for dogs, so it's so like tacky and just like I didn't like any of them. And I think it's so interesting, like the conversation around like neutrals because I think neutrals have just taken off in the past couple years. Like, I think it's just there's there wasn't I don't really remember neutrals being a thing before that. I think about what we used to wear when we were like the 2010s. It was not it was not neutrals, like why is that what you think was missing in the industry? And how do you I suppose respond to you know, when people are like, oh, neutrals are so boring and things like that. Like, what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_03 11:49

We are a very neutral brand, but I think it's because we want to keep things timeless and classic, and always we don't want to encourage people to buy like a new thing every month just for a trend purpose. We want things to be like timeless and classic and like match your outfits, and that's I think because people are seeing dogs like almost like as an extension of themselves, they want like the harness to match their outfits and things like that. So that's why we've done it. Um, it's no hate towards like patterns, and we have started to introduce like some patterns within the range, like for summer we did like stripes, but that's very classic summer, yeah. But yeah, I think we'll always stay with the neutrals um and keep it very timeless and classic.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

And what was the first product you brought out? Like, what was the actually bringing something to market?

SPEAKER_03 12:33

Yeah, that's a really good question. The first one we brought out, we actually brought out a variety of products, which I actually don't think you need to do. Like a lot of people say you just need that one product, and I do think they're right. Like, I think we launched with almost too much to start with. Yeah, and on launch day, it wasn't like that huge success story that you have where people are making like a hundred thousand pounds under one. It was very much we sat there and we were like, Oh, a couple of grand. This is we've got work to do. But we had done a lot of backwork to kind of build to what we did that day. But the products we launched with were our car seat, our carrier in boot clay, and our like vegan leather collars, leads, and our some of our boot clay harnesses and things like that. So it was quite a big range in different colours. I think how much did we spend when we first launched? Like 30k?

SPEAKER_05 13:15

Yeah, it was around 25 grand.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Yeah, and didn't I like research this right where you had to basically like give up a house you wanted to get to put the money in for that?

SPEAKER_03 13:25

Well, kind of. So we at the time when we launched by Teddy, we we really wanted to move because we knew that if we decided to quit our corporate jobs, that it would be harder to get like onto the next stage of the housing ladder because obviously mortgages and everything. So we were like, okay, maybe we should move now whilst we have the salaries and everything, which was probably quite stupid anyway. Like everyone around us was saying, like, all your family friends were like, I'm so glad you pulled out of that house.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

It's just like so true. Starting from zero as well is is really tough. And I think like so. When you brought out your first products, how how did you do it? Did you launch, did you build an audience for us?

SPEAKER_03 14:02

We did build an audience first. We were really big on trying to build a bit of a community community, nothing like we have now, but I think we started teasing the launch like six months out, almost too far out, and the content wasn't amazing, but it wasn't like it was just it wasn't like your crazy kind of stories that you see nowadays of like people talking about building an audience before you like build a product and then launching off the back of that platform.

SPEAKER_05 14:24

Like, I think there's a lot of probably good examples of that. Now, probably more so in the past like year and a half, two years. Like it's kind of like the playbook now to like build a brand which is build your audience first, and then like you see it either with creator brands, where that's where a lot of the kind of interest and traction is from like customers or investors or whatever, like everyone's just talking about creator-led brands, etc. Or if you're like a nobody, like us, then it's like like become a creator and like build that audience and then build and then and then kind of launch your product off the back of that. So it wasn't anything like that. What we did, like we've tried to like dibble and dabble into that, but it's definitely much harder than it kind of looks like. It I think social media makes it look really easy, like just kind of post about like building the journey and whatever. But when once you're actually like in there building your business, it's like I don't have time to document building a journey because I'm too busy building or whatever. Yeah. But I think in terms of how we launched it, yeah, we like built like a profile for our dog and did it and kind of built it.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

So he had an account called Chill With Teddy and like was getting like ads and stuff from like food brands and things, which was great. And then that's kind of how we did it, and we we've stopped running that account now because it's honestly like just you've got too many Instagram. Too much Instagram accounts. Um, but yeah, and then I guess like we didn't have crazy social media success really until I guess last year, and I even would say we still got so we have so much work to do, but like we were only on 10,000 followers, like on the back end of last year, and like it's grown a lot more rapidly this year. So it I think our story is quite interesting because it's definitely one of like persistence and perseverance, not like an overnight I just made X amount of money and like got grew like a hundred thousand followers in a day or whatever. Um, it is like per, but it's working, and I think it's like a good example to show people you don't have to have like that quick moneymaker or that like viral moment all the time to have like a successful business or a successful brand.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

What was the first moment where like you guys actually were like, This is actually working, and something started selling a lot? Like, was there a specific pinpoint moment?

SPEAKER_03 16:30

Um well, uh it was all like snowballing uh towards the end of last year, I would say. But I think when we look at it, um, we always say TikTok shop was like a catalyst, like we don't go live on TikTok anymore, and we don't really sell much through TikTok. But when I was so I was made redundant in June last year, which was like the best thing that ever happened to me, and I am very cautious when I say that because I know a lot of people are being made redundant at the moment, and it's not their ideal situation. But for me, it was like our perfect scenario because when I set out last year to like look at the full year, I knew I wanted to leave my corporate job to help David full-time. It was just getting too much, like I couldn't manage both, and I wanted to help David more, and I couldn't. Um so around this time last year, we started going live on TikTok shop, and I had just been found out I was being made redundant, so I had like a lot more free time. Um, and it did give us like a lot more like visibility on the brand, a lot more people, like followers and like people knowing about us, and a lot of people buying from us, and a lot of cash, like a lot of cash, like injected into the business quite quickly. I mean, I'm sure you talked about all the problems, but it was like it was like a moment where we were like, Oh shit, yeah, we hadn't really been making like crazy amounts of money each month, and it was that's why I couldn't quit my corporate job. Like we thought we would get to that put point, and we weren't, um, and it was a bit of a struggle. Um, and then we just started going live, and sometimes I'd be live up to six hours a day, and we were making like thousands of pounds on each live, and I was like, We've never made this kind of money before. Um, and then TikTok gave us like an account manager and we started working with them. But the problem with that was that they really wanted us to discount a lot, they wanted us to give away a lot for free um to affiliates because they have a big affiliate strategy, and it just wasn't really where Byte Teddy was going in terms of brand positioning. Like, we're not a discount-led brand, and being told that you have to do discounts or spend so much on ads as well, just to get the visibility that we were getting like the month before, it just didn't sit really right with us. There was so many other issues as well with TikTok shop, but uh it did give us the cash to like really go big on autumn winter, which is when everything started to change for the business, which was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

And what did you learn from being on TikTok shop? Like what works, what doesn't work, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

Yeah, um, I learned so much. Well, first of all, we established like a really strong community from it. Like, I there are people that watch TikTok lives like so much, like they just literally they spend their evening watching lives, and we actually have a group chat on WhatsApp with a lot of our community who used to watch every single live, and we speak to them nearly every single day.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

Yeah, which is so nice, and they're actually the nicest like group of girls. All have dogs, they come to all of our events. Like, some people travel all the way from like up north down to London for our events because like we've really like connected with them and like made this community community for them, which is so lovely. Um, so I think community is a big part of it, and like just seeing those like recurring people come back each time and really fall in love with the brand. Um, confidence in like talking about our products, confidence for me, because I was just it's quite soul destroying like talking to a phone for like six hours a day. It's a lot of things. It's you also establish like a parasocial relationship with people, yeah. And it's very odd, um, and things go wrong and everything, but it was so good for us, like it really helped our like business grow. So I think that was like a really big thing. Um, and there was a lot that is wrong with it though, which we should probably talk about.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Yeah, so safety issues, safety issues we spoke a little bit about. I went to um one of your what would you call it? Like a walking club.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

Yeah, walking club. Like it's yeah, we do it each month and we try and make it fun and like partner with different brands.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

It was so and the weather was just amazing. It was brilliant, like, and I've never been to anything like that before, and I I really enjoyed it, and I think you just get to meet so many people, and it's so weird, but it's like if you have a dog, you've just got something in common with people, and you can just speak about it for ages. But we were talking about, yeah, like what is one of the hardest things that you guys have been through, and it was a bit about the safety issue with TikTok, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:29

So I'd just like literally finished at my job, and you know, like my days were TikTok lives, and it was exhausting. Um, and you do just get interesting characters out there that just want to play on your emotions and I think it's just your live reactions to things. Yeah, I don't really know what it is, but there was basically an instance where someone started almost like trolling us during our lives and sharing like personal information about us in the comment section. Stuff that you I actually genuinely don't know how they found out some of the information. Some of it came from company's house, such as like our address and things, which has all been changed, so you can go look it up and it's it's not on there now. You only noticed that though once something like that happened. And his parents were like, it was yeah, anyway. So we um and but there was like certain things about me that they found out that I was like that wasn't on company's house and that wasn't on my Instagram, so that was a little bit strange. Um, so I was like live reacting to these comments and being like, where the hell have I got this like freaking out because I'm also like not someone to hide my emotions and stay contained and ignore things.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

So but it really throws you off when you're there from work and you're in like sales mode, and someone like I've had it occasional things before come up. It's really hard to just like read it and just act like it's not bothered you, and I think that's what they the kick that they get out of it.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

Exactly. So they got a kick out of it, and then they started like just almost like trolling us off the lives as well. So they had this an account where their TikTok account was showing like not them particularly. But burning down houses, like an arson aspect to their account, which was super strange. I can't even believe that was even allowed to be a little bit more than a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 22:07

And then they would start like sending photos of flat from like outside. And I was like, oh my god. I was like, he's in the book, he's looking in the book.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

And like we've got like a gate, we're in like a gated. It's still quite sick. Yeah, I'd I've never been so stressed. I was like, I've quit my job for this. Like it's all gonna go.

SPEAKER_05 22:23

I was like shutting the curtains and everything. But then we realised it was just like a photo from like right movies.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

Right from when we were had like our flat listed because we were obviously gonna smell at that point. So that was a book. So we were like comparing the photo. Like, does our flat look like that right now? Um, and they had put our address on it, so they posted it and like started like saying this is like their address and like all my private like information and like certain things that I won't disclose, but yeah, that was really, really stressful. And they were then getting other spam accounts to try and like get I think get money out of us. Um I won't say what those accounts were because they were like really deeply disturbing, um, and it got really, really, really messy in that it was we just weren't being left alone, so we called the police. Um, and luckily the police were amazing, by the way. Like I would actually, I was I was pleasantly surprised at how like quickly they reacted to it. Um, however, they just couldn't do anything about it because TikTok refused to give them the profile information of who had started that account, which to me is insane because like that's probably happening to so many different people and your like safety's at risk, yeah. Like they know where you live. Yeah, and was that a fear that they would just turn it? Yeah, for sure. And like we've like blocked the accounts and everything, but there's only so much blocking you can do before they start were starting like new accounts and things as well. I think as soon as we stopped giving them a reaction over time, it's not.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

But it was really stressful. So, how did you overcome that? Did it fizzle out? Like, did you just have to just yeah, like when they showed up on the live, would it just be block and ignore? Block and ignore.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

Yeah, and there was a lot of weird characters on the live stuff that would yeah, very, very strange. It that's the thing that was like starting to put me off it definitely is like the regulation on it. And then like the other things about TikTok shop, as much as I love it, and I think it's amazing for so many brands, especially beauty brands and like food or drink brands. I think they do incredibly well on there. Um, but for like more like brands like us at a premium and you're selling like physical products, like car seats and things, it's hard, it's very different.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

Yeah, it's uh it's a harder sell, I guess, a little bit as well.

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Like if you're buying like a five-pound drink or something, it's just like yeah, and they can afford sometimes to do like crazy bundles and crazy offers, which we couldn't really, really like afford to do.

SPEAKER_05 24:32

There's like policies and stuff on TikTok shop where like perishable goods like food, drink, you can't return it. So if you so like with us, you get a lot of irrational buyers where you're like flash there or the that and they're like shit, and then it's just like and they like a day later they just go, I don't want any more cancel, or they receive it and they go, Oh, I did that by accident.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

Yeah, and then they return it in a bin bag. Oh god, it's the worst. And my warehouse was like, I don't know what to do with these returns, they were unpackageable, like people would rip labels off, and then TikTok would side in favour of the customer, and it was like this isn't the direction we want to go in. And I think like the like what's it called? The the straw that broke the hammer's back? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was close enough. Was when um we had a a lot of orders coming through, and um TikTok marked them all as undelivered, so they basically said that we hadn't shipped them when we had, and basically hundreds of customers got their orders for free because TikTok marked them as undelivered and then said that we owed like crazy amounts of money and withheld, I think it was like £10,000, which at that time was so much money for us, and we needed that to fund so many different things. Um, and it was really stressful. I remember we were on holiday in Greece and we just couldn't even enjoy the holiday. And we're like, this was that was the first holiday. We were like, we're never gonna be able to enjoy a holiday again. Um, because you were on the phone to like the TikTok shop manager, and like they to be fair, it took them two months to resolve it to understand like there was a it it they did no being fair, yeah. Being fair, because I think a lot of people don't get their issues resolved with TikTok shop, so we were really lucky that we got the money back. We really fought hard for it, but we obviously had a very clear case that we hadn't done anything wrong and all these customers had received it, but they had refunded all of these customers, so they had got all of these products for free, like 10,000 pounds as well. That's insane.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

And beyond, like beside that, with the with the crazy TikTok situation, have you had anything that stands out as uh the hardest thing you both have been through in business so far?

SPEAKER_05 26:35

I mean, I think it's just like the accumulation of everything that goes on on like building a a business, like no metal wall businesses like that you do. Everyone has like their different kind of challenges in terms of like what the day-to-day kind of looks like. But for us, where it's like a typical you know, product, almost like a fat, we it's kind of like almost run like a fashion business. There's so many kind of day-to-day things from you know, sales, marketing, product development, designing products, speaking with retailers, filling out all of the forms for retailers. We do all of like the yeah, I know all of the I know I say like, oh, I have to fill out the forms for all of these research.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

No, but it's a lot for two people.

SPEAKER_05 27:14

But it's like, and it's like you you see kind of like your your to-do list kind of ramp up and stack stack up, and then like you get an email from like someone or like a customer service message, and then you're doing all of the customer service, and then we're like, oh, we've got a launch. It's like all of this that kind of just accumulates inside your brain, and you're just trying to like fix it's like a jigsaw puzzle or like whatever, and you're just trying to put all the different pieces together and prioritize things and whatever. Like it's great, and it's like the reason why we do it is because we enjoy it and it's like our passion and we love it. So this isn't me complaining, I can't even remember what your question was. It was like, what's the challenge? The hardest thing, I think, is just like it's cash flow for sure. It's like cash flow, but just like building a business with like two people and trying to kind of I guess naively do everything ourselves, but just try and yeah, it's just a lot. It's a lot, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 28:05

We should be hiring at we're getting to that point where, but you have to really push yourself to the limits with before hiring and things, because otherwise you can start to make really expensive mistakes, which is why we haven't done it.

SPEAKER_05 28:16

Yeah, I think we're just playing a bit of a game of how long can we go.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

Yeah, yeah. But I think like to touch on that cash flow is like the biggest thing, and I honestly don't know how people do it. Like, it's so hard being a business owner out there, and when you're growing so quickly and you're working with a lot of retailers, which we do, we have to like so. For example, if John Lewis are placing an order for autumn winter, we're buying the stock like two months ago, so they say two months ago, we're putting the order in, you're having to spend like 30% up front and then 70% when that stock's produced, say like next month. We're not seeing that money from the retailer probably until the end of the year. Wow. Yeah. So as much so you're really having to think ahead and like how can you, and if they're placing bigger orders than they have before, you don't suddenly magically have that money. Yeah, so you're having to really go through different ways of like financing that and taking big risks, and it's very stressful.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Yeah, because I think like I always find it fascinating to speak to product-based businesses because I'm service. So the concept to me of having to think can I, you know, spend £50,000 and hope that I'll either make it back or that it will be in trend at the time when it comes out. Like, how what have you learned about cash flow and how have you been able to manage it? Are you still figuring it out?

SPEAKER_03 29:29

Figuring it out. It's like because I think it's only growing bigger and bigger, and like we're working with a lot more retailers, but we're also wanting to fuel our D2C side of the business, and often we do have to take a hit on the D2C side where we're like, okay, well, this stock we will have to reserve for John Lewis or we will have to reserve for pets at home um or any other retailer that we're working with, um, and not make like the full margin that you would normally make because you obviously you make less when you said a retailer because you have committed to that retailer, and there are penalties and charges if you're not in stock all the time on the product, so it's a really difficult balance, isn't it? Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Um, what's it been like with the retail side then? So we've got John Lewis, Pets at Home, Pets Corner, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Um there's one more. We're launching with very.co.uk, which I can say. Wow. Um, which will be great, um, which a lot of you will know. And then there is one big one coming from you would probably have to be Pat. Yeah. So yeah. That's like a really like crazy moment to kind of have all those different retailers and prove that we can make that by teddy work in such a variety. We wouldn't take any more on at this point, though. That is um maximum. And that's like a dream, aren't you? Yeah, exactly. And I think like the and what we're doing with them is like especially special because it's not just like online, so yeah. It's gonna be quite it's our biggest moment, I think. Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, and we've got some exciting things coming with John Lewis this year, which is like more bespoke space in store and things like that. I think we can say that that's fine, yeah. And doing things a little bit differently, which is uh being brilliant exciting.

SPEAKER_05 31:03

It's just like moving so quickly. So, like, for example, in autumn winter last year for John Lewis, they took like 10 products or 10 10 10 SKUs, whereas this year they're like uh what's one more than quadruple, what's five drupal, five drupal five drupal, five times.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

Yeah, so they're basically taking over 50 SKUs and massively upping their quantities as well. From like they basically give you like an initial buy and then you get a forecast for the season. Um so then they tell us, okay, well, say they buy like a hundred units now, but we might need 400 for the whole season. So you're having to factor in 400 not knowing that they're gonna buy 400, because if the product doesn't do well and they only buy 100, then you've still got to shift it.

SPEAKER_05 31:42

And we're not working on the timelines that a lot of these like big fashion businesses are working on where we have all of our like collections ready a year before. So we're pitching, like we probably pitched autumn winter for John Lewis back in when was it, January, February? Yeah, and it was all like AI images of like this is what we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

This is the this is the and they're like, This is amazing, this is incredible, and we're like, oh shit, now we have to go make this because we always like to pitch before, and then we get our designers, and we have like so we have a designer um who works on a lot of like our designs because we're not from like a design background, and then we have like a tech pack designer who works on all like the detailed tech packs because we have no idea about anything like that, especially clothing for dogs, is so difficult. Um so we work with two freelancers on that.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

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SPEAKER_03 33:36

I think we're a very unique case.

SPEAKER_05 33:38

Yeah, I think it it's different for every for every brand and category and buyer, and you kind of have to dunno, I've I mean the story I always like to share. So I had a a drinks business, but like that was one of my one of my ventures. And I have like a story of when I was trying to get that brand into Holland Holland and Barrett. I remember having like hearing this story around like the Innocent Drinks uh like the smoothies and how they essentially got into Sainsbury's for the first time. And essentially it was they it's kind of weird and creepy, but I think they like followed the Sainsbury's buyer home from out of out of their office and like basically tr mapped his like cube route from like the office home. Wow. And then they basically bought billboards along his like route to work. So then when he went into work, he basically saw like innocent smoothies everywhere and he was like, Oh my god, this brand is everywhere. Like, what is it? Oh, they're really smart, and it's like what's going on, and then they essentially got listed by Sainsbury's because they were like, I've seen your brand like everywhere, like like whatever. So I kind of took a bit of inspiration from that, and um, I don't know if I should be revealing it now in public. I'm sure it's I can always cut it. No, no, no, I'm sure. No, I'm sure it's no, this was a long time ago, and it's all it's all like fine. I basically found like the Holland and Barrett buyer and like basically found his like Strava account, yeah, and I thought and I saw that he was like really into cycling, he was like a Leeds United fan, etc. So I was like deeply like trying to understand who this person was so I could like connect with him on like a real personal basis. So glove. So then I sent like all of our drinks to like all of the Leeds United football players and like got photos of like the Leeds United football players like drinking the drinks and everything. And I just like followed up, I waited to like to get those photos and the tags on Instagram and stuff, and then I just followed up to the Honan Barrett buyer and was just like, Hey, just um hope you had a good weekend, had a really nice long cycle ride in in Leeds over the weekend. Well, I don't know what you've been up to. Oh yeah, by the way, um, check out this. It's well, I can't remember who it was like I can't remember the the name of the footballer, and then he like replied within like 20 seconds. Yeah, so and I was just like, that is wild.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

We haven't done anything like that with By Teddy, but by Teddy's been really different. I feel like yours is so good. Yeah, it's a lot of per perseverance and persistence. Yeah, you've got to bother people. Yeah, I I keep going till I get a no. I always say, like, David loves an email, he loves a lot of things.

SPEAKER_05 36:07

What's my phrase? Um no means yes.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

No means yes.

SPEAKER_05 36:12

Yeah, or like uh no means ask again. No means ask again, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

And you I mean you get really creative with your subject lines and which you have to do. Yeah, and I think like the key part of like where we've had success with buyers is telling the story of Buy Teddy, like using the market insight and everything. We won't reveal too much because then we're giving away all of our secrets, but yeah, but yeah, it's really like articulating that story and really taking time on that rather than saying like we've got X, Y, and Z products.

SPEAKER_05 36:38

Because these people they get emails from like people, yeah, hundreds of emails a week. Yeah. So you have to not only find a way to you know stand out, but you have to find a way to like it's all it like you you've got to be like strategic about it at the end of the day because you're trying they're trying to grow their category, they're trying to grow their business. You can't just be passionate about your brand because everyone's passionate about their brand. You know, so like with pets at home, for example, it was all about like telling the story of you know, looking at their you know, uh management accounts for the like previous financial year and looking like the accessories category was like in decline, and it was like all of these like commentary on what was happening with the accessories category for pets at home. And it's about taking those nuggets of information and going, okay, how can we like help revive the accessories category for pets at home? And like that's through premiumization and innovation, and kind of you the only way to kind of grow a category, for example, like that is through you know premiumization or creating like a really clever, sort of good, better, best tiering system. I won't go into the details, it's quite boring. He loves this. I can tell you all I think. But kind of what you were seeing from like a pets at home sort of lens was you know they were constantly competing with like the jollies or the BMs and they were essentially trying to compete on value, and that was where that decline in the category was coming from. So we essentially you know articulated this whole sort of brand story on like how buy Teddy was the solution of essentially bringing back growth to the to the category and helping them create this sort of premiumization strategy, and it didn't happen overnight. Like we were speaking with it was like two it was like a two-year you know thing. As soon as we started the brand, I was like speaking to the buyers straight away when we had like nothing. But if I hadn't started from that point when we had nothing, yeah, you know, you wouldn't have been like passed on to the next buyer or you wouldn't have got the And they said no to him a lot of times so many times, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

And so like that means yes.

SPEAKER_05 38:31

Yeah, and all it takes is like the m the best success I've actually had from like retail buyers is like when you actually get like an out of office from them and they go, I'm out of office, but you can contact because then you've got another name. And it's like, hey Jane, thingy pass me on to you, or whatever. And you go Oh, you're so clever, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:49

And then it just it's just being a bit kind of yeah, because we have a very retail first strategy, which is probably very different to some of the brands you've spoken to that are very much online. Like online will always hopefully bring in like 70 to 80 percent of our business. You would think that working with all these retail partners that would bring in a lot more than like 20 to 30 percent, but well that's how we always will keep the split, I think. Um but retail is like very, very and I think it brings like really good like brand equity and people really like trust your brand. Like a lot of people say to us like, Oh, I've seen you in John Lewis, or I've heard about you through John Lewis. I know you're like more of like a reputable or trusted brand because if John Lewis trusts you, hopefully they can then trust you, which is which is true because they've seen the product John Lewis buyers and they love them and they they get it.

SPEAKER_05 39:33

So yeah, there's like a clever business principle. Cool. I can't remember what it is. It's like the six touch points, or like it's like someone has to see your brand like six times before they take action. So it's like what are those six touch points? Is it they see you on social media, they see you, they get an ad from you, then they see you in John Lewis, yeah, and then they see someone wearing it in the street, and then I don't know, whatever, and they go, Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

And I think what people have also really connected with with us is the fact that we are like a couple business as well, because I feel like it's you don't see that that often. No, yeah. Um, so I think that's like people really loved it when we started like doing like those carousels on TikTok of like our story and like just a cute photo of like me, David, and Theodore, and like kind of going through like our relationship history and how we've got to where we are, and people do like resonate with that. And I think a lot of people probably do want to start a business with their partner, so it's quite nice to see.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

I always get comments though, because I work with my partner. How do you do that? I could never work with my partner, but I think it just works or it doesn't. I think some people's relationships like like I'd say me and Matt aren't very like fiery people, so we don't really argue that much. And if we do, it's just like I'm just gonna go and sit in the other room, you just go and sit in that room. How do you guys yeah, balance the relationship and the work relationship at the minute? Okay, we don't balance that.

SPEAKER_03 40:47

It's completely blended in, and you just have to accept that. Like, I don't think that is a world where you can like really ever separate the two when you're in a relationship, and thinking that is like very unrealistic. Like, we're trying to think about like, oh, we really want a holiday this year, but we both know that we will not be able to switch off from that holiday when we go on that holiday, and that's okay. Um, that to be honest, I would be worried if we did go on holiday and didn't talk about the business, yeah. Because like that is what it it is gonna be like and it will it always will be like because we're both very passionate about it and it it's exciting to talk about. Yeah, well, I mean it's literally our life now, so there's no I mean we work from home as well still, so like we're very much like working from a small flat, living in the small flat. We don't go out and do much, like we do say no to a lot of like friends things, family things, like we do put a lot on the side for just doing our thing, and that's just how it is. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Yeah, I'm the exact same. Just like I think it it either just works or doesn't. I think the people that that it doesn't work that their relationship is a bit they love an argument, or they do just get kind of hate an argument, yeah. Like I'm just like right, okay, and I just I don't have the break, I we don't have time to argue. No, the business is actually more important, yeah. Like, why are we having an argument for the sake of that? Yeah, and you've got the same things in common as well. Um, can we speak a bit about the odd muse collab that you did? Because I feel like that must have been a really big moment for you guys. And didn't you orchestrate that in like the clever way of I need to find Amy and I need to guess?

SPEAKER_03 42:10

Like, what was that story? So, I mean, everyone knows Amy, she's amazing, but um, when we saw she was moving to New York last year, and you know, she has Oddy, and I just thought maybe we should get her some gifted product. We very we don't actually really ever gift to many people, um, but we should probably get her some bits to take with her for Odie because like she, you know, she's gonna have to carry her dog on the tube and things like that, and we've got all the right products for her. So we reached out and her assistant replied saying, like, yes, Amy would love this, send it to this address, and we knew that she was going quite soon, so we'd have to get it there quite quickly. I was still working my job at L'Oreal, so you had to go and deliver the products. Like, he literally drove all the way, it must be like two, three-hour drive.

SPEAKER_04 42:53

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

To drop them, not even thinking that Amy was gonna be there, just that like their office, just to hope that she could get them before she left. Um, because we just knew that the postal system, you just never know. Yeah. Um, I'll let you tell this part of the story because like you you it was.

SPEAKER_05 43:07

Yeah, well, I mean, I just kind of rocked up and it was just like the odd news office. And then Amy basically like came around the corner and I think she had like a rented Bentley, like she'd been like gifted like a Bentley or something. I don't know. And I was like, uh that's Amy. I was like, oh shit. So he like called me. I like got out, yeah. So I like got out of the car, got my phone. I think I had my tripod or something.

SPEAKER_03 43:31

No, you didn't, you you I haven't.

SPEAKER_05 43:33

Oh no, it was on like a skip, and like she basically got out of the car and I was like, Hey, I'm David from Buy Teddy, and it's like I've got you and she and we basically like chatted for like 10, 15 minutes outside.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

And he filmed the whole interaction, she let him film.

SPEAKER_05 43:47

Yeah, I was like, Can I film like our interaction for like social media? So I like put it on like a skip, like just like balance that up and like we were unboxing it together.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

But that's so good though, because she gets it right, like she's like absolutely like filming. She knew that what that would do for our business, if you know, so it's so good.

SPEAKER_05 44:06

And that was kind of like the starting point, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 44:09

Of the yeah, and then so after that, we just had like a little thing, and like collaborations have always been at like the heart of what we wanted to do. We just hadn't really got there yet. Like, we had been let down by another brand on like a real like a really big brand on a collaboration we really wanted to do that year. And we were like, what can we do that's different within the pet space? Like, no one's really doing collaborations. Um, and you're seeing a lot of them within like bigger brands and different categories. So um we emailed Amy after that interaction and just kind of sent her this whole proposal of like Oddi in New York and like in matching pieces from like her collection at Odd Mews in like dog jumpers and things like that. So we sent her this we put Audi in through Chat GPD through like AI and like put him in a whole jump. So we like really articulated it super well, and she literally came back to us and was like, This is like the best, one of the one of the best things. I'm not gonna say the best because I don't think she said that um but she was like, I think she absolutely loved it, and because you made it like relatable and personal to Oddy, of course, which I think she loved. And immediately she was like, Let get working on some samples and we'll go from there. So we literally did.

SPEAKER_05 45:15

Yeah. Um, and we made like a whole like collection of like dog, like matching dog pieces for odd mews. Different jumpers and things. She had like there was like the white, I can't remember like a collared like jacket thing. Yeah, so we made that for dogs. We made like a little odd mews cab.

SPEAKER_03 45:31

Yeah, but we just went with the jumper in the end and which was perfect. Yeah. Yeah, we did a hoodie as well. Which Oddie did wear a lot, which was I loved seeing that when when she was posting that.

SPEAKER_05 45:41

And then we did like the like Odmus, like netted jumper, which is like one of her I don't know if it's her most iconic, but she's quite well-name. Yeah, yeah, it's more recognisable when it's like.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_05 45:53

So that's kind of yeah, the one we ended up going ahead with.

SPEAKER_03 45:55

Yeah, and throughout the whole process, she was amazing. Like she was always the one we were communicating with, pretty much, which from someone who has such a big company, for her to be doing that was like so lovely to it's like very personable.

SPEAKER_04 46:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

Um, and she's such a busy lady, like I just honestly don't know how we managed to get it off the ground, but we did. Um, there was actually like a really stressful point though, because our samples to her to get to New York got stuck in customs in the US, and we had like a very short time frame to turn it around. Yeah, like if we didn't get that like confirmation from her that she was happy by a certain date, we knew we wouldn't be able to launch it that year. And it was like before Christmas we wanted to launch, and she wanted to time it with her uh Bond Street launch with her new store. So, like, if we didn't make that, the collaboration probably wouldn't have I think it still would have done well, but I think it wouldn't have had the impact we would have wanted it to. And I had a really big like vision for it, and we then paid a lot of money to get a whole nother round of samples made up because we were really worried about this. They were stuck in customs for over 30 days, it was really stressful. I literally like couldn't even sleep in the same bed as David. I was so stressed. I went and slept on the sofa one night because I was so anxious that these samples were, and I just refreshed the FedEx page every hour because they were five hours behind. I was calling them, I spent so much money on like um custom yeah. You can do like yeah, and that's when you go from being nice and polite to like please can you just zones out? Like the governor were like, I can't do anything. I don't know what you expect. Like, this needs to be properly inspected. Um, so we had this whole other batch of samples made up, which costs a lot of money by the way, like it's not the same as like a normal unit cost. Um, I even got my passport renewed and went like next day delivery because my passport was like running out, and I was like, if I have to fly over with these samples, I'm not taking another risk. Wow, it was honestly the commitment to the case. It was a real surprise when you guys didn't know. I literally was ready to get a flight over just to go there and back and drop them off. Like I didn't even need to meet Amy, I just like needed to drop them off.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

That's insane. Yeah, and what was the impact that that that club had on your business?

SPEAKER_03 47:52

Yeah, I mean, it just I guess gave like us so much more credibility as a brand. Um, I think we executed the campaign really well as well, in terms of like not to do our own trumpet, but like I think like people loved seeing like Theodore in the Odmuse store and like sat on like the little plinth from the window, and like we actually had this moment where he was doing that, and then loads of people in the street were like just taking videos of him, so it's like he was like being papped in the store, and it was just really cute, and it just worked really, really well. Um, and the impact with it was amazing. Like, we had so many like people discover us for the first time, and because the collection was only like an in-store exclusive, like people were travelling all over just to go get the piece, which was amazing. It sold out pretty quickly, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:34

For an in-store piece, I think it was a lot of the perception of like I don't know, doing collabs and stuff is I mean, for us anyway. I mean it's yeah, for us, it's not about like driving loads of revenue or money. No, it's not. It's about kind of like just having a bit of like a brand moment and just kind of creating a bit of like a buzz around.

SPEAKER_03 48:55

We don't make money off our collaborations, really. It really is that like marketing keys, limited edition.

SPEAKER_05 49:01

Yeah, so it's like really difficult to unless you kind of really go big on it and really commit to saying, well, let's make this like a huge, huge moment, and it's gonna be like a consistent, like core piece of like both of our collections, whatever. It's really, really difficult to do.

SPEAKER_03 49:14

Because you're doing limited front of stock as well, and you're paying for like the minimum order quantities, or if not less, sometimes you're paying higher amounts for that unit than you normally would.

SPEAKER_05 49:23

Yeah, but it's just like the credibility piece for us, the talkability, the it's the long-term vision as well.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

Like, even someone in a year's hand going, Oh, they were the brand that collabed with Odd Muse. Yeah, it's just like even if they didn't buy at that time.

SPEAKER_03 49:34

Well, that's how we've ended up getting like native, so we work collaborated. Do you have you seen Native? They do like the homeware pieces, and and Molly from that brand is amazing, but it helps kickstart those conversations, and then we also collaborated with Perfect Head as well, which was so fun on that dog toy. That was so cute, yeah. Just like, and people wouldn't normally expect, like, I think OddMuse makes a lot of sense, and so does Perfect Head, but with Perfect Ted, it was almost like they were really unexpected. Like us creating a bright green can into a toy isn't really very on brand for us. But the fact that both brands are like Ted, yeah, and you had met the founders, so like it made a lot of sense in terms of like that that piece, and there's a lot of crossover with the target audience of like who Perfect Ted are targeting in terms of their target demographic and who we are, like a lot of um crossovers, so it worked really, really well. And there's more to come, yeah, there's more collaborations on the horizon. Wink wink, wink, wink.

SPEAKER_00 50:26

And what have you found? Have you had much impact from like influencers or celebs that post and tag? What is that impact?

SPEAKER_03 50:34

Yeah. Yeah. I would say there's been like two big ones that really stand out to me. I mean, I'll let you talk after me, but for like the first one is Chintzia.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:43

Chintzia is amazing. Well, both actually circumstances were completely organic, but a lot of the time we find that people will, like influencers or celebrities, will discover our products organically, so they will buy the product, love it so much that they post about it, which is what you want essentially by the way. Yeah, because you're not sure. Like Chinzia was a complete surprise. Oh my god, yeah. Everyone was like, I've never had so many messages, friends, like just everyone, like people from like L'Oreal that I used to work with, be like, oh my god, Cinsia has literally just like she's in it's in the YouTube video. I was like, where the hell did she get that casting from? It must have been like a boutique store that we sell it in in London. Yeah, I was like, that's insane. And like, and it was all on her like post with Blueberry when she yeah, it was just honestly amazing. Um, and then obviously we've gifted her since, and she's also bought from us since as well. Um, and it just shows that and we always see blueberry in the different pieces, which is so lovely. Um, so that's that's great. And then the second one is Louisa from the Luana podcast. Do you know who she is? Yeah, this was like a really unexpected. This was really unexpected, but that's why I like to talk about it because I often it's like those unexpected moments that so she was on The Apprentice, I believe. Yeah. A long time ago.

SPEAKER_05 51:53

Well, when back when it was good.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

Yeah, back when the apprentice was good. David actually applied for The Apprentice, by the way. Year code of COVID and it got axed the show. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_05 52:01

But you didn't I didn't actually get selected, but it was a whole I don't know if you've like been through that whole spiel of whatever. I did it once and it I mean I can talk about it quickly, but essentially it's a wild experience. It's like this whole building in London, and each level of the building is like a different stage of the interview process. Wow. So you like start at the bottom and it's like a 10-second elevator pitch, and there's like a room of like 20 people all in a row, and you have to do like a 10-second elevator pitch. And then you've got like a number on you, and then they're like you, you, you, you, you, you go that way, and then the other people get on the left and go up to the next level. And then there's like a one on one-on-one like interview, and then there's like a group task, and then there was like it just basically keeps like these different levels, and it's like you go that way, you go up to the next level, and you kind of like get kicked out of each other.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

Who did you speak to at the top? Was it like Lord Sugar's business advisor or something like that?

SPEAKER_05 52:52

And then there's like Lord Sugar's like business advisors on like the second to final level, and then they like rinse through like your like whole business plan and everything, and then it's just like pre-going on the shirt.

SPEAKER_00 53:03

Yeah, not even like you're on the shirt.

SPEAKER_05 53:05

This is like the application, and then like the final level was they put you in front of like a camera. Do you know those like pre-clips you see when you're like introducing yourself in your arrogant and they're like, My name's David, and I and success is the only thing that matters to me, or whatever. And it was like, and they were like asking you these like quick fire questions, yeah, and I just like sh spieled the most unmutable stuff, like just this horrible stuff that was just so unmugu. Because you think it all because I was like, this is what I need to say, because this is what someone that's on The Apprentice, this is what they would say. I was like saying, I can't even remember, it was just some horrible, horrible stuff. Anyway, anyway, I didn't get the call back. So that is the model of story. The best thing that ever happened. I'm so glad you did not go on that show, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 53:48

Um, but yeah, no, Louisa was amazing. Well, that was probably the most follows I think we've ever had from like a creator and purchases and people saying, like, that actually got us um in with one of the buyers of the retailer we're launching with later this year because she heard about us on the Luana podcast because Louisa gave us like an organic shout out. That was brilliant, and so many people since have said, I've heard you on the Luana podcast or like I've done heard you here. Yeah, and she like posted about us and she's been so lovely and so nice.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

So that's incredible. What stands out so far as the biggest pinchy moment you've both had?

SPEAKER_03 54:21

Um there's a lot coming this year, but for me it would definitely be like the odd me's collaboration and launching in John Lewis because John Lewis is just such like a it's a place that I've always been to, like on shopping and stuff just to see our products. Yeah, yeah. You grew up with them. And I think I mean all I love all our retailers, by the way. I don't want to buy a single one.

SPEAKER_05 54:40

Yeah, I think just whenever you get like a yes from someone where you've been like working on that yes for like such a long period of time, like a two-year build-up, and then you get the yes, that's kind of always it's kind of I mean, it's actually it I've got to be careful kind of how I page it because I don't want to sound ungrateful, like you said, like it's it's all good problems to have. But sometimes because we are growing like super super quickly, and those yeses do actually happen probably a little bit more often now than they ever did in the past. I wouldn't say we're becoming like numb to like the yeses, but you do have to kind of try to find time to like celebrate your wins because you could you get so like kind of not worn down, but kind of you're in the trenches all of the time and you get this amazing email, and you're just like, I don't even have time to think about that right now.

SPEAKER_03 55:28

Yeah, it's so crazy. Like, we'll get an email from a retailer that should like like last year we would have been like jumping for joy. Let's go for a drink.

SPEAKER_05 55:36

And we got like the yes and we got the order free from John Learse, and we were like jumping on the bear.

SPEAKER_03 55:41

But now it's like, oh my gosh, that's like a lot to deal with. When we've really got so much, but it it is one of those things where it's like also you're getting like these yeses, but you're celebrating in the moment, so when they actually do happen, you've kind of moved on from it because there's more things coming. Like when we're like talking through what's happening in autumn winter this year, I know when the moment comes along, we really should celebrate that moment and be excited and really be present because they are really big moments. But I know in my mind I'm gonna be like, I've got this, this, and this to do for like next year, yeah, which is insane. You're always thinking ahead.

SPEAKER_00 56:12

You never sit with it. It's even like you know, if you have like your best month ever in sales or something, you're just like, right, well, on it needs to be the next one now, or it's like more money, more responsibilities, or it's still it's the whole comparison. Like, even like with this podcast, if I reach a certain like figure of listeners, I'm like, that's still really small compared to everyone else. So I need to work harder to make it bigger. Like when you're never like settled, but I think you've got it.

SPEAKER_03 56:36

But I think it's a good thing. Like, I think in business you do have to push yourself and not be happy with the standards you're at and always excel, otherwise, you're just never gonna get to the next level. Such a toxic way of thinking. No, but it is you can't ever settle, things change so quickly.

SPEAKER_05 56:50

Yeah, that's been like the most like trending topic, I guess, in our conversations in like the past month or so, which is I I can very this is like um I can often very much find myself kind of complaining about good things. Yeah, you know, and and you have to tell him to check himself. I know and the phrase that's kind of been used so much sort of recently is from other people or ourselves is like, oh, it's all it's all good problems to have, or whatever. And like what you just said, which was like more money, more responsibilities, it's like more money, more problems. Like it's so real. Like you kind of think, I don't know, two years ago, if we looked forward and we were in this position, we would have been like shocked, like, how did we get there? Or like this is incredible, this is like we've achieved so much, but now we're actually kind of like there and living it. It's kind of just like um it's just trying to find that perspective of like how do we actually like live more in the moment and like really enjoy what we're doing, but then also just be mindful that the more money, more problem thing is like a very, very real kind of situation.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

It's like how do I not lose this now?

SPEAKER_05 57:57

Because you can't like be naive and think like you know, the bigger you grow, kind of the easier it gets because it is literally the opposite.

SPEAKER_03 58:06

It is just like and we are creating a lot of problems for ourselves, like we are launching into like loads of different categories this year which we haven't ventured into before, and they come with a lot of challenges, and it is gonna just amplify. But I think you have to take those challenges on.

SPEAKER_05 58:21

Yeah, another phrase that we use is um just say yes to everything, yeah, and then we'll figure it out. And then figure it out later. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:28

It's been interesting, so I think you guys are defin are one of the first guests that have come on that have spoken about um how you can orchestrate your success. Like you've thought about what you want and thought really strategically about how you want to get there. But like a lot of people haven't gone like said that, and I've always done that in my business. Like, I keep like spreadsheets of everyone I keep in contact with and like what they are like good for if I need them for something, or I what I can help them with and stuff. So I've always got a person for a thing, and equally like reverse engineering things of like I want to get to this. Is there any rooms I can get in with someone that works there, or like using people at LinkedIn? Like, I think that's so clever how you've managed to do that, even with Amy and like going out of your way to personally deliver that. Like a lot of people would have just posted it. But it's like if you have that conversation, you're remembered. I think that's so clever.

SPEAKER_03 59:21

Yeah, I think manifestation is key. Like, I feel like a lot of people would think I'm quite woo-hoo for saying that, but it does actually work. Like when I look at last year, like in January, and when I set out like my vision for last it was 2025, yeah. I really wanted to quit my job and do the business, but I knew I wasn't in a position to, so I like really put that as like a focus on my vision board to achieve that that year, and I put the date of 30th of June on my vision board. I got my my notice period was three months, so I got to the 30th of March and was like, I haven't handed my notice now, like freaking out, I haven't achieved what I wanted on my vision board, this isn't gonna work out. But then I got the call that I was being made redundant on the 30th of June. But like I got this call in May, and I was like, isn't that so weird that that was the exact date I had in my vision board? Like that's just unheard of. That's mad. And I just think if you do write it down or you think about it, or you articulate it or you talk about it with someone, whether it's like a collaboration you want to do or a business you want to start or whatever you want to do, keep like talking about it and thinking about it because it actually will happen.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:21

Yeah, this is quite sad, but oh yeah, this is also true.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:24

This is what David did. What you did a similar thing in terms of your calendar invite. Is that what you were gonna say?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:28

Oh no, it wasn't. I mean, yeah, I did the same as well, which was when he basically I worked at yeah, the Unilever for a couple of years and then was gonna start by Teddy and essentially wanted to kind of Unilever was like super not stressful, but it was like a lot. Like it was like working really late, so I was working in the global team, so I was like working quite late evenings and and whatever. I basically just needed something a little bit sort of more chill that I could essentially build something on on the side. So got a job at Wagam. I'm not saying it was more chilled, it was like a really good opportunity, and when it was actually really intense. It was actually so naive thinking it was getting more. It was still like really, really good. Um, but on the day that I started, I literally put in my calendar the day that I was gonna hand in my notice, like a year later, and on that day, yeah, I did that. And I think it's just little things like that. What I was gonna say was how um this is quite this is the thing that's quite sad, but we love it because it's what we like to do. Is on New Year's, New Year's Eve every year we do our like little manifestations. Oh yeah, we don't go out. We don't we don't go out and put it. We do not go out. We like stay at home and do a manifest manifestation. A couple of drinks.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:34

We've got a few shrinkers, have a couple of shops.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:36

Or we'll get our little like notion board. That's incorrect.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:39

And we just think about the whole year.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:40

And we look back at what we did for the previous year and then like take things off and go, we did that, we did that. Or we did that. We didn't do that, or we didn't do that. Not in like a toxic kind of way, just in like a way to kind of and like we don't I haven't looked at that manifestation board, but it's in my mind. Like I I can remember what we've put on there.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:57

I did say to David, I was like, we actually wanted to do more this year in terms of like a podcast. And like now, we're going on this today, and like we've got an ad with um like a brand for like through by Teddy, and I was like, this is like what was on the vision board of things we wanted. We're not doing crazy amounts, but it's like slow little wins, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

And I think as well, just asking for things. Like people people think that because I say this all the time, just ask for things. People are like, Yeah, well, that's easy for you to say because like you built up the following now, but even before that, I've always just asked for things, and even like, for example, there's this girl that works for us now, Gemma. She would apply to work for us every single month, even when we weren't hiring, and sometimes we turned her down, we were like, You're just not that experienced yet, blah blah blah. It took us six months and she got it, and she's like one of the best in our company now, but it's like she was so persistent that even when I was like, No, no, she was like, No, no, I I'm still applying, I'm still applying. I think you've just got to like literally pardon the pun with this podcast be like a dog with a bone, yeah. Literally be like have your teeth sunk into it and not let it go and build those relationships with people. I think that's so clever. Yeah, um, so to sort of round off with, can you think of I love to say like the most non-generic business advice you can give to someone that's sort of sat listening to you guys feeling inspired?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:12

Yeah, I think for I think it actually has been a big theme of this podcast, but it's like being perseverance and persistence and not taking no for an answer. Sorry, David, if that's what you were gonna say. But it is just like and also like not falling down when you do get a no and like pick yourself right back up again and move on to the next thing, because it's really easy to like wallow in like getting a no or feeling down and depressed that something didn't work out, but the people that are probably more successful are the ones that just moved straight on to the next thing and just took it as like a positive, and maybe that's not the right direction you're going in, and it shifts you in a new direction. So that's what I would say. I love that.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:53

Mine I don't know, because my this piece of advice is kind of uh I can't think of like a good metaphor phrase that everyone's been using today, but it's kind of like been a burden of me, but also like it's brought out so many successes as well. It's just like have like really delusional like naivety about kind of what you can achieve and what you can do and how big you can grow something. Like if you go in with like such a you know small mindset about what you want to achieve, then that's kind of how you're gonna be living your day-to-day life and running your business and kind of attracting the people around you. But we've always gone in with like we're gonna be the biggest dog lifestyle brand in the world, yeah, yeah. And we're gonna be blah blah blah and whatever, and we're gonna do this, and we're gonna work with these people, and we're gonna do and we're gonna do this amount of sales in year one, year two, year three, dah-da-da. And just kind of have this like huge vision and huge mindset and the naivety in your brain that you can actually achieve it. I think it's good because like I said, it's uh given us all of the opportunities that we've had in terms of like the amazing retailers that we work with and the amazing opportunities that are gonna be hopefully revealed later this year and kind of everything that's happening. But at the same time, it can always like work against you as well. So I guess it's always having I don't know, the balance or I don't know, the I don't know clarity in your head of kind of just making sure that you don't overstep sometimes. But just having that kind of delusion, I think be delusional. Yeah, delusional phrase.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:18

You have to have the right people around you because you can say that some people they'll be like, oh yeah, right, like they don't believe it, but I think you know within yourself, you're just like, Yeah, that's just yeah what I am, that's what I'm gonna do. Like there's just no like nothing that's gonna get in your way from doing it, but not everyone can think like that. No, they can't.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:34

A lot of my friends are in like corporate jobs, they're very supportive of like what David and I do, but we're just in such different wavelengths, like our day-to-days are so different. It could not be and what these people have grown up with, and I'm like, they're my closest friends, but they are very supportive. But I am very delusional and like living a very different life.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:53

But it's not like being delusional and like not acting, it's not like being delusional and just hoping it's gonna come true. It's like those connections working hard and making the connections, etc. Like our day-to-day, like as much as you kind of see like the highs on like Instagram of us out and about doing content sheets and meeting these people and going into stores and whatever, it's literally just me sat at a desk, like staring at a screen, filling in forms and doing editing photos or whatever it could be. It's just like it's so like mundane and not boring because it's like what we enjoy, but it's like you really do have to sometimes just close yourself off from the world for the short term at least, just to kind of get things running, get things off the ground, and make a lot of sacrifices.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:33

So another piece of advice I would say, and I think it's something we've done really well in, is trying to do everything yourself. We did mention this briefly, but like to this day, David will still capture every piece of content, edit every single photo, edit every single video, like teach yourself those skills if you can, if you're starting like a product-based or service-based business, because that will cost you a lot of money, and there are so many ways that you can save money, especially with AI these days. There's so much more you can do and just yeah, figure it out. Yeah. Without David, I don't honestly know what this brand would be.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:04

You balance each other out. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Incredible. Well, is there anything you can uh promote or like anything that you can shout about on the pod?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:13

Def yeah, definitely go and follow by D on Instagram, TikTok, check out our website, or check us out at any of the retailers. We also love it when people go into a retailer and like photograph it and say, Oh, I saw you in here. You don't have to buy anything necessarily. That's so surreal. That's so surreal. Um, and then I in terms of what's coming, we've all we've got so much coming from like the end of July onwards, it's gonna be a bit more.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:35

We were looking at um holidays last night for December.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:38

Because we were like, I think we're gonna need a break.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:40

Yeah, you need to switch off and maybe a hire. Yeah, yeah, definitely a hire. If anyone wants a job on social media, God, yeah. You need I don't even know how you two have done in this much, just the two of you.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:50

No, it's a lot. We definitely do need help with someone in social, though. So, actually, if anyone is listening to this, if you're like a Farnkart personality, a Vicky Owens, yeah, then give them a shot. Sophie, Sophie from OdMuse slash so like someone like that we're looking for.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:04

So God, I'll just duplicate myself. Um, well, thank you so much for coming on. I think this has been such an inspiring conversation. I feel like I feel quite like pumped up and ready now for this conversation, which is so nice. Um, and yeah, you plug socials on there, right? So bye Teddy, if you want to go and give them a follow. Um