How to manage a team : everything I wish I knew at the start

In this week's solo episode of Business Class, Vicky Owens shares the honest lessons she's learned from building and managing a growing team.

From hiring your very first employee to leading a larger business, Vicky opens up about the mistakes she's made, the challenges of managing people in your twenties, and the leadership lessons she wishes she'd known from day one.

Managing a team isn't something anyone teaches you. Whether it's setting boundaries, building company culture, giving feedback or learning to lead with confidence, Vicky shares the real experiences behind growing a business and the people within it. 

In this episode, Vicky discusses:

• Hiring your first employee and growing a team
• The biggest mistakes first-time managers make
• Leading a business in your twenties
• Setting boundaries without losing approachability
• Building a positive company culture
• Managing difficult conversations with confidence
• Delegating effectively as a founder
• Why making leadership mistakes is part of the journey
• Creating a team that supports business growth
• Learning to become a better leader every day
• Balancing empathy with accountability
• Scaling your business without losing your culture

Whether you're hiring your first employee, growing a startup or leading an established team, this episode is packed with practical leadership advice and honest reflections from a founder who's learning in real time.

🎉 This episode is sponsored by Plannerly

Plannerly is the all-in-one creator toolkit that helps you plan content, schedule posts, manage your social media workflow and sell products, services and digital downloads, all from one platform.

👉 Use code VICKY10 for 10% off your Plannerly plan.

Subscribe to Business Class with Vicky Owens for weekly conversations and solo episodes covering entrepreneurship, marketing, leadership and business growth.

Produced by TAEPodcast www.taepodcast.co.uk

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome aboard to Business Class. The only place to be if you are on your journey to success. I'll be showing the ups, the downs, and everything in between. Just a disclaimer that this is all my own advice and what inform works for me as a first-time business owner. So please take everything I say with a pinch of salt. So take your seats, strap in, and welcome aboard to business classes.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Hello, happy midday, everyone. Welcome back to another solo podcast episode. Setting the scene for you today. I've got a McDonald's Diet Coke next to me. It's a Wednesday today, but it feels like a Friday. I am literally on death's door. I am so close to going on my holiday. It's on Friday, and I'm just, you know, and you're just crawling to it. That is me today. Um, I'm gonna jump in with my takeoffs and departures because I feel like if you can watch me visually, you might actually be able to see my departure on my face today. That's your little teaser for today. But my takeoff this week is that I've just come back from Can Lion in France. Um, if you're in the world of business marketing, which most of you should be, this would have been all over your social media. Everyone seemed like they were at Can Lions this year. And how would I describe my experience? I think as someone who is definitely an extroverted introvert, it is a lot. And when I say I'm an extroverted introvert, I mean I can speak to anyone. I'm very good speaking on stage, one-on-one conversations. When it's like uh socializing and things like that, that's just when I just find it really overwhelming. So I would say I enjoyed it from a stance of it was really cool. Like I got to speak, uh I got to work with YouTube and a French brand called Les Bouques um at a private villa. Like that was all really cool. And even just being asked to to be in the south of France to collaborate with brands was just insane. I'd say, from a social battery perspective, it was a lot. Like we had to wake at 2 a.m. wake up at 2am for the flight, got there, out all day. It was so hot. Apparently, it's like one of the hottest summers France has ever had. I think it was near like 40 degrees. There was no food anywhere, and I'm not exaggerating with that. Like, there was no food stalls. The most was like ice cream. Um, YouTube had some apples and plain crisps. I was like, oh my god, I just want a burger so bad. Like, I don't do very well when I've not eaten in a while, and I need substantial meals. That was really tough. There was a lot of cues, and I'm always just gonna keep it real with people. Like, I could definitely be just another person that comes on and was like, it was just amazing. And you know, there is downsides to things, and especially when things look so glamorous, that's not always the case. But I would say benefits to be able to have done that is incredible. We had a good time, I made some great connections, but I was very glad to be back home. I'm not gonna lie, it was a lot, and I am so ready for my holiday this week because every single week in June we've been abroad for some sort of work commitment. Like a few weeks ago, we were in Paris with Forbes, and yeah, it's just absolutely exhausted me, which brings me into my departure. I don't actually know if you'll be able to see this on the cameras today, but I've spoken in the past about my eyes, okay? And you probably, if you're a regular listener, you're like, yeah, I already know what you're gonna say, Vicky. Basically, when I get run down or stressed or whatever, my um the heat that's created in my body that's made in your liver is connected to my eyes, so it comes out of my eyes. So this week, I have literally, I mean, I put on makeup this morning. My eyes water so much, it's just, it's just no makeup can stick to my eyes. So I've literally got like a black eye on my left eye yesterday. It I'm not again exaggerating, even though I am the biggest exaggerator on this planet. It looked like I'd been given two black eyes. Like I literally woke up and it looked like I'd been punched in the face twice. They were like purple, red, swollen, itchy, not a vibe. And at the same time, as much as I was like, oh God, because it for me it is preventable. I just have to stay on top of my habits and things like that. I am always one of those people that just ignores people when they're like, prevention is better than cure. Like I wait for something bad to happen before I go to cure it. Whereas I should be doing regular little things to stop this from happening. However, when you travel so much, you kind of can't have a routine. Like I was into my running every day, and I, you know, like have my uh green juices every morning. And like when you're out of your routine, that also is quite a lot for your nervous system. And as much as I haven't been stressed this month, as in everything I've done has been so amazing, I've not had a regulated nervous system. I've been like really out of whack. So I think that's something to note as well that when you know, it doesn't have to be bad stress. There's good stress and there's bad stress, but you need to be regulated, like you know, as in your calm. And I'm not very I've not been very calm over the past few weeks. So that's my departure. I'm not feeling very hot today because literally the eye is dripping. I'm constantly like dabbing it. That's what I'm gonna be doing this whole episode. So you're very lucky if you're listening to me today, not watching. Um, but today's episode I'm really looking forward to actually. So my main focus today is to speak about my experience with managing a team and just working with people in general. And I've not filmed an episode like this, I think for a while. I think I've done one near towards the start of my podcast, but it was more things that I had learned from other people. I hadn't really put it into practice. But now I feel like is a really good time for me to speak about managing a team and my experiences and what I've learned because I've done it for a good couple of years now, and I really wish there was a podcast like this for me to listen to when I had just started. Like, especially someone that was in their 20s. I do think despite people saying your age is not important when you run team or um own a business, I do think it's important. I do think the way that the experiences I've had with team have um massively played into my age. Like, my age has definitely been a factor in how things have gone. So I'm just gonna speak about it from day one, you know, having a team of one to two to today, where we've got a much bigger team. So let's get on into today's episode. So, the first thing I want to say when it comes to managing a team is the only way I can learn and give advice is by going through things and making mistakes. And I had a really good conversation with someone recently about this, where you can definitely listen to this podcast and take notes from it, but really and truly, the only way you will be able to really learn and take on board this stuff is by making mistakes and by doing things wrong. No one in the history of the world has started a team and it's been perfect from day dot and they've got nothing wrong. It's such like no one actually speaks about this. It's such a weird dynamic to have a team. You live with these people every day, you can't really be friends with them, but then you don't want to be unapproachable. You don't want to be, you know, you need to be nice, but you can't be too nice, friendly, but not too friendly, personal, but not too personal. It's so tough, especially speaking from a startup perspective of things to factor in. Most of us, we've never managed a team before. We don't know what we're doing. Um, it's our first team. We are working usually in a very small space. It can be our home, it can be a small office that you've first got, and you're expected to not have a personal connection or relationship with these people. So I think a lot of people that own a business that I've spoken to, they would be lying if they say, Oh, I have a perfect team and nothing's ever gone wrong. Like there is a reason why everyone says this is the hardest thing, and I think that is why is is for those reasons. Like we're a startup, we've not done it before, we don't know what we're doing, we need to make mistakes to learn from it. And even though I've definitely found it by far to be the most challenging thing I have ever, ever done, um, it's very rewarding when you get it right. So, the first thing I want to speak about, starting off with my team journey, which so I started my business in 2021. I want to try and get the dates right here. I'm gonna get this so wrong. I just know it. I think a couple months in, I hired my sister to work for me part-time freelance. Then I think a couple months later, I took her on full-time. And a couple months after that, we bought our first office space. It was only a small shared office space. And then I think that same year to maybe 2022, 2023, again, I'm so bad with dates, I need a proper timeline of stuff. Um, we hired our first part-time freelancer, and then within a couple of months, she was full-time, and then it just flew from there. It was like next full-time, next full-time, next full-time, next full time, and it just literally snowballed. So the first thing I'll say is if you're in a position right now where you're solo and you're thinking about starting a team, one thing I wish I could go back and tell myself was first of all, really think about if you do need this team member, or is there ways that you can outsource? You know, there's virtual assistants, um, what else is there? Just like different freelancers, because to hire someone as a full-time employee is a really big commitment. So I would always say start small, really think about whether you need this team member. It's really easy to have a team for the sake of having a team. I think naturally when we hear someone say they have a team, we think, you know, they're they're successful, they're doing well, they're well established. When in reality, you know, I think I definitely rushed a lot of hires to add just more numbers to my team to make it sound, oh, look at me, I have a team of eight. Like, I think that was one of the reasons, and that's not the right reason. So it's just thinking about that first of all, and whether you can get freelancers in first before taking that leap. Um, also, a lot of people ask me about, you know, advice on how do you know when you're ready, how do you know you can afford it. I can't remember who it was, but someone was saying a really good piece of advice when it comes to making big investments, like it could be an office space, team, whatever it might be, is for a few months to put away the money into a savings account of what you would be paying that team member or you know that big expense. And if you can do it for a couple of months and not feel like, you know, that's a big chunk of money, it's stressing me out, then you're in a really good position. But I think we just know when we are pushed to our limits, and we also don't have to do everything. Like I recently I would say in the last, oh my god, six months to a year, I've been complaining about how busy I am. And I've tried working with mentors, coaches, uh, I've tried buying every organization tool you can possibly think of. And recently I've just given into the fact that do you know what the actual issue is is that I need to outsource and it's actually impossible to get all of this done. It's not even an organizational thing, it's just too much work. So I've just hired um a PA. So they're starting soon. But that's you know, even now I get scared to hire people. Um, the next thing to think about, okay, so we've got our first team member. This could be for, you know, a team of one to three, let's say, like a small team. I would say a big mistake I see a lot of people make, like a lot of people make, especially my age, is they want to hire someone who they think they would get on with. Like they want to hire someone that they think they can be friends with. Um, and it is important, obviously, you want to hire someone that you can get on with. Like who who doesn't want that? You want to get on with this person. But it's that is something I used to do with my first couple team members. I would literally hire people that I would be friends with, um, and it actually makes things worse because you actually can't, it's a lot harder to manage people that you're friends with, and also there's no sort of hierarchy, um, which sort of brings me to my next point of, and this is a controversial one, but I'm just gonna say it. There needs to be hierarchy in teams. Um, when I had a team of four, we would all sit on the same table, we would work together all the time. I would tell them too much. We were basically just like a uh a friendship group of four, and there was absolutely zero hierarchy. I they didn't see me as their boss. Um, I never acted as their boss equally. Um, so do whatever you can do to create a hierarchy. And even uh a small change we made was moving my desk to be separate in the room, like by itself, and then the three girls would sit like somewhere else in the room on their own table. So even psychologically, you know, my I'm sat over here, like that's you know what I mean? No, I can't explain it, but that's what I'm trying to say. There has to be some sort of uh a clear hierarchy, and I've always made that really clear, even now, you know, it'll be like me, then managing director, then um operations manager, then senior person. Like there always needs to be a really clear uh lineup um in a business in terms of who works there. The next point is that you are going from a startup to a company, and that is the hardest thing you will go through. I think the reason why I found last year so hard is because we were essentially behaving like a startup, um, and then we transitioned into a company. So we didn't have things set up properly like HR policies, and this all comes with just having a bigger team, um, health and safety, um career development, you know, all of this sort of stuff. It took, I think we got to about a team of seven or eight before we were like, you know, right, we need to have this all in order now. And I don't even feel any sort of way about that in terms of, oh, I should have known. No, I shouldn't, like, I shouldn't have known because no one teaches us these things. You only know from you only know what you know, you know? So that's when we made the switch to, you know, invest more in things like that. We have all the correct policies in place, contracts are correct, um, HR we have, but you only know that from making the mistake of not having those things in place. And also, one thing about team I've learned is the people you start with will very, very rarely be the people you finish with, and that's okay because the company goes through a lot of different phases. My business, even a year ago, two years ago, is a completely different place to what it is now, and the person that would have worked there a year ago would have a completely different experience working here today. So you are gonna get people that struggle to work in a messy startup and it's too much for them. You are gonna get people like I've had people leave because they want more structure, they want a clear career path, and I caught I couldn't give that to them at the time. And you also have to think as well that especially in a startup, that is typically not a lot of people's forever job, especially when you're hiring people in your 20s, and you are gonna have a slightly higher turnover because people are just using it as like a uni experience or like a stepping stone to getting a bigger job. And you just have to accept that. I would take it so personally when people used to leave. But now, when people leave, you know, we still get great feedback and it'll just be like, I've just found my dream job, or um, I was just using this for some experience or whatever it might be. So you just have to get used to those sort of things happening um and knowing that it will happen, and sometimes it won't get any easier. The one thing I would say that I would say is more of like a negative, I suppose, is that I try, and I feel like this just sounds so Debbie Downer. Um, I tend to try my best to not get super like close to my team because I am very realistic in the sense of anyone can just leave at any moment. And I guess I don't know if that's like a defense mechanism. Um, but as much as I love my team at the minute, I mean it's the closest it has ever been to being a perfect team, and I've worked so hard to achieve that. You know, I do have boundaries set in place, and I have my own separate office, and I think, yeah, I think at the start I was very naive in thinking these people are all gonna be with me forever, we're all gonna build this dream business, and it's just not how it happens. Um so anyway, let's move on to the next point because I could literally um fix it on that for ages. I am so excited to say that this episode is sponsored by Planally. Now I've been using Planally since I was about 16 years old in my very first marketing job, and I used to use it to basically plan out content for the feed, get it looking all nice, but now it does so much more. It's basically a full creator toolkit all in one place. You get your social media planning, but you also get a free Link in bio tool and a built-in customizable storefront with checkout. So you can schedule your post, preview your feed, drive people to the link in your bio and actually sell your products, services, digital downloads, even one-on-one coaching without juggling five different tools or paying transaction fees on top. As a business owner, I know how easy it is to batch your content and then just forget to post it, or how hard it is to stay consistent on social media. I've used so many tools, but Planally is the one that makes my workflow feel so seamless. And it has everything I need to manage my clients' content and my own. So if you're looking to take your social media growth seriously this year, start with Planally and you can use code Vicky10 for 10% off your Planally plan. The one thing I got wrong for such a long time that I have definitely gotten a lot better at is uh being kind and not nice. And being nice is actually one of the most dangerous things you can do as a leader and a business owner. And by that I mean if you are not willing to have the difficult conversations, they would just get more difficult down the line. And my worst skill as a leader before, I'd say even last year, was that I would be terrified of confrontation. I'd be terrified of pulling people up on things in case they resented me or the job. So I would just let so many things slide. You know, if someone was late, I wouldn't mention it. If someone wasn't putting enough care and attention into their work, I wouldn't mention it. And actually, one thing I've written down on here that I have learned is that people really value feedback. I used to think that people wouldn't want any type of feedback. Um, you know, positive, yes, but negative, I was like, who would want to know that? But people want to know how they can progress. And the thing is, is once you've done a couple months of you're amazing, this is great. I've got no negative feedback for you, nothing you can improve on. It starts to not become, it starts to be, you know, the job isn't challenging in any way, it just becomes easy. So actually, that can be a negative thing, you know. We've had someone leave before because they weren't challenged enough. Like their job was so easy. They had a good salary, they had a good role, um, there there was no challenge whatsoever in the role. There, there was no feedback. And, you know, they left on really good terms, but they were just like, that there's no challenge. There's just there's nothing for me to work towards. And I had never thought about it like that before. So be kind, not nice. Being kind is giving that feedback and knowing that that's going to help them progress in the role. And we've just learnt as a rule of it's almost like a 24-hour rule. So if something comes up for us, that's a concern. So it could be someone's late, someone is a bit snappy, rude, someone isn't, you know, sending their work in on time. Me and my sister have a 24-hour rule where we're like, we get them straight in, we pull them up on it, and it's squashed straight away. And quite a lot of the time, people have really appreciated that and they're also aware of it themselves. And I feel like it's a lot better to speak about it in real time as opposed to letting it drag on and on. Um, and then that is when things like resentment comes into place because people bottle up. And hold on to things. And then also just communication. One thing I will tell you that has been the best piece I have piece of advice I have ever received about being a leader, that I, if you can take one thing from this episode, let it be this. And that is that when you're a leader, you are responsible for everything and everything is your fault. And that sounds really doom and gloom, but it's just so accurate. Like if someone's coming in late every day, you're allowing them to come in late every day and there's not enough repercussions if they don't. If someone is always sending in their work late, you're allowing that to happen. If, you know, we work obviously in social media. If someone's creating work and we're frustrated because we're like, oh, that they just don't understand, you know, how to make a TikTok that performs, that's on us because we've not given them enough training. Everything is your fault. And me and my sister almost have an inside joke about that now because she might say, you know, oh my gosh, this has happened this week, this person's done that. And I'll go, that's your fault though. And she'll be like, Yeah, it is. Like it is. And I think as well, it's kind of it applies to lots of different areas of your life as well. Like, you know, it could be you're a friend and you feel like all your friends take advantage of you. Like, that's on you because you've let that happen. I carry that in so many different areas of my life to this day. Um, so communication is super important, and on that note, I will say again, please take this advice away. Pay per trail the frick out of everything. Like, keep paper trails of everything. And that is not just team, that is clients, people, whatever you can get. Paper trail everything. Because, you know, I think the one thing I've been really lucky with is that touch wood, we've not had any legal incidents yet. But I know as the team grows, that's just kind of inevitable based on people that I've spoken to that have a large team. You know, there'll be someone that might file for unfair dismissal or whatever it might be. I mean, maybe I'm just thinking the worst here. Document every conversation. By that I mean when I have one-to-ones, which I believe should be pretty regularly. I speak to people that do these um either never, biweekly, monthly, quarterly. Um, I would say people again like to receive feedback. So what we do is we have monthly one-to-ones. Um, I note down everything that's been said, I print it off physically, and I get them to read it and sign it, and I also sign it. And that basically just says we both acknowledge that this is what the conversation was about. Um, so that if something happens, it can't be like, oh, well, she said this or she said that. Like everything is documented. Um, screenshot, text messages, emails, just pay per trail everything. Even if it's something small, like you are pulling someone up on being late, make a note of it and you can even get them to sign and acknowledge. Today we've chatted about you being late, whatever it might be. Just make sure you pay per trail everything that you possibly can. Then again, when it comes to feedback, this is something I've always struggled with. How do I give feedback when someone, you know, isn't doing something right or things aren't living up to what I would expect them to be. My best advice that I was given that I use to this day, that not everyone's gonna agree with, but I think works great, is the out of 10 method. So basically, what this is is where I will look at all the attributes of the job. So it'll be like time management, um, it might be contribution, creativity, general like attitude in the workplace, like different areas and attributes of that job. It's going to look different for every single person and job. Um, we go through and before the meeting, I will go through and rank this person out of 10 in terms of where I think they're at and add a bit of feedback. And also they will do the same. And then we come together and we compare answers. And the reason why I think this is so important and works really well for us in our company is because A, it means that you can't avoid difficult conversations because let's say, for example, someone's late every day and you get too nervous to bring it up to them and you don't want them to hate you, whatever. If this person's late every day, they know they're late every day. So most likely, I'd say nine times out of ten, when there's an issue, you both come together and say, look, we both see that the time management isn't great. Um, so it gets you to have those difficult conversations as well because you've already written it out, typed it out. So you have to go through it. You kind of can't chicken out of saying it. But also you get to see it from their perspective as well and understand what they see. Um, so that's really helpful. And also, I think it just gives you a really clear understanding of where they feel they're at, but also where you feel they're at. Because when you're ranking something out of 10, you get a more accurate answer than just good or bad. So if I'm like, how do you feel your creativity is? They might be like, Yeah, good. Whereas if they're like, I think it's like a four out of 10, could be better, blah, blah, blah. So it works really well for us. Again, we document all of this and then we towards the end of the meeting go over um, what are you enjoying? What do you want to improve on? Have you have they got any feedback for us as a as managers as well, like and as a team? So that's been really helpful. Um, and then when it comes to giving negative feedback, it's never easy. One thing that I have done in to do with again, it's not just team, but working with difficult clients or anyone in business pretty much, is acknowledging that there's people and then there's people in business. So I like to the best way I like to describe this is I've got some of my bestest friends in the world that I love, but I could never work with. Like it would be a nightmare to work with them. The same as there might be some clients that you absolutely hate, you can't stand, they're being a nightmare. They might be a lovely person, but just a nightmare to work with. So just acknowledging that you have yourself and then you have you in business. Um, and it's I think really easy sometimes to get too personal with things. And let's say, you know, I do have to give someone feedback and say, your attitude isn't great in the office at the minute, you know, no one is gonna take that on board and be like, I'm so sorry. And, you know, they're usually gonna then resent you as a manager for saying that and get angry and upset. And it's really easy for you to take that on board and think, am I a mean person for saying that? And now, oh no, she doesn't like me now for saying that. But that's it's you in business and the situation that they don't like, not you as a person. The same as if you have a difficult client that is on a Zoom call and you're having a meeting and they are saying, I don't like the work, it's not great. Like, they're not saying they don't like you as the person, it's the work and it's the situation. Um, so that's just something I've tried to implement is that, you know, whatever happens in business is in business. Like there'll be some people that I've worked with in the past that might not like me in business, if that makes sense, but they don't know me, the real me, outside of business. So just try and separate the two, you outside of business and you in business. Um, then the next thing I've written down is sort of about career progression. So when you are a startup and like I said, you do have a team of, you know, it could be under five people, like a smaller team. It is really easy to just be like, you know, um, I just need someone that I can pay minimum wage for to pack orders for me or something like that. And that's okay, but I think it depends what the job role is, really. I mean, for our people that work with us, like our team, it is like social media um managers, social media assistants. And at the start, I did just hire people and pay them a salary and that was it. And they just created content for the clients. I think when you get into the swing of like, you know, these people have been here a year now, it's the same week in, week out, um, they're just getting paid their salary. There was no clear career progression. So I think when you make it clear what that looks like, it makes people feel a lot more inspired to work there because they know what the next steps are. And then also just thinking of, and this is definitely one that you can implement as you get later into your business because it does require more cash. Is what can you give people beyond just a salary? So when I say this, yes, you can obviously do free things like perks with our company is like flexi work times. You can start at like do seven, three, eight, four, nine, five, ten, six, whatever that might be. Uh, work from home, um, really long Christmas break, monthly team days, things like that is great. But you want to think of what else can people work for beyond just their salary? Um, it could be commission, it could be, I mean, for us, commission is a really, really hard one because um I've thought about it. It just doesn't really work with our business because all of our leads come in through socials or word of mouth. Um, and they're quite big clients, ones that the team wouldn't have connections with. So we thought about commission, but ultimately what we've landed on is a wheel spinner. And I actually got this idea from Benji Leslie, who is the founder of Connect, and he came on here a couple of months ago. Really good podcast chat. If you want to learn a little bit more about team and management and things like that, especially with Gen Z. Um he said that Gen Z especially needs something that's a little bit more stimulating for their brain. Um, and also just like, yeah, just something beyond just a salary. So we do a wheel spin and we set people their KPIs. So that again is a really important thing of this isn't just your job, but these are like your goals to hit. So people can feel the satisfaction of working towards something, ticking it off, feeling proud that they've achieved it. I actually wish I could have someone set me KPIs because I feel like that would motivate me a little bit more. So, and that can also play into the monthly chat that we've had with them. So we've said, you know, this month um your client wins, we'd rate out, we'd rate you like a four out of ten because you've had two. So your KPI is to get seven wins this month or whatever it might be. Anyway, when they have hit those KPIs, we do a monthly wheel spin and we really wanted to listen to the team with what they want on this wheel, like what motivates people. And this is another thing to think about. Different things motivate different people. And I know this sounds crazy, but not everyone is motivated by money. People are motivated by feedback, by um small gifts. So it could be someone's hosted their first client shoot, and we get them a bunch of flowers, and that means more to them than like, you know, I've given you an 100-pound voucher for self-ridges or whatever. Um, for some people, it's time off. It could be extra holiday days, it could be um, what else motivates people? Experiences. So we got the team to come up with a wheel that motivates them. So it's like mystery holiday, could be like a cash bonus, a meal for two, a spa day, like little things that actually they would want to work towards. Because I think if you're saying, you know, you get to spin the wheel, and on that you get, I don't know, a £10 voucher, people aren't really gonna feel that motivated to work for that. But I think if it's something that they have chosen as a team and we're working towards, they're gonna want that. So that's been working really well for us, and it just lifts the spirits a little bit each month, like people look forward to it. And I think as well, you know that if you've not hit it, yes, you know, they are always, we're very lucky that they're always happy for the people that have hit it, but it motivates you to work more for the next wheel spin, if that makes sense. So I'd say ultimately, looking back on things I've done right and wrong in business, I would say things I've done wrong is where would I start? Being too nice, um, letting a lot of things slide, which in the end was one of the worst things that I ever could have done. Like where people want the feedback, they want to be told. So then eventually what I would let happen is I would let so many things slip that they would fester and fester and fester, and one day one thing happens and you literally pop your lid, and then you'll get them to come in, you'll pull them up on it, and it all comes out. And to them, it's like the biggest shock because they've never been put up on anything the whole time they've been here. And then that's when things can lead to resentments, disagreements, all of that jazz. So I would say being too nice really bit me in the bum. I would say not looking enough at career development really bit me in the bum as well because I had some staff members that were really loyal there for a couple of good couple of years, but they just didn't know where their place was or what they were working towards. And I could not give them that because I didn't even know where the business was heading because it was growing so fast, I didn't know what direction it was going in. So I think on my side, I've definitely thought more about the longevity of the business and where I want it to go and what different people's roles can be. What else would I say? Oh, I would say I definitely have a good policy now around firing fast. Um, and just know as a leader what your rights are and what you can and can't sort of get away with. So I would say one thing I would let slide a lot is if I felt a bad egg in the company, I would just ignore it and just be like, you know, what what can I do? Like I can't, there's nothing I can do about it. That this person's a bad egg. Whereas now I'm a lot more ruthless of if I feel anyone come into our team that has negative energy, is like a whingy, whiny person, um, makes other people feel uncomfortable because we've had that a few times, they've got to go. And I think one thing I wish I knew sooner, um, which I'm definitely not gonna get this right and I'm gonna butcher it. So please look at this from someone who is actually a trusted professional. When you are an employer, I think within the first two years, you can pretty much just get rid of someone um without a lot of paper trail and proof and things like that. Um, it's now changing to six months. So within the first six months, um, again, please don't quote me on that. That is, and I have a whole HR team that deals with all this for me. So they are more aware of it than me. But that's like the thing I wish I knew. I would be like, I can't let this person go because I've not had enough proof that this happens and this happens and this happens. Um, whereas I wish I just knew I could, I could have just got them out and it would have been the biggest benefit for the team. So there's that, and then also having a policy around making sure someone is the right fit. So we have a classic like three-month probation just to make sure someone is the right fit. But um, I definitely try to hire a lot slower now. So, for example, I've hired my PA and I've started I'm starting them on three days a week just to make sure it's the right fit for the first month. Because I'm gonna have to spend so much time with this person, so it has to feel like the right fit. And then once I feel it's a good fit, then we can expand to a full five days a week. Um, whereas in the past, I would have just been like, Yeah, you got the job, you hired, and that's it. Um, so that's my advice, really. It's so tough, and like I said, yes, I hope you do take something away from this episode, but you're not really gonna know till you've got to go through it yourself. Um, and just something like food for thought is where do you want to go? Do you want to be someone that has a large team? Do you think it's actually scalable without having a large team? Because it is really difficult. Um, you know, and I don't think it will ever get any easier. I think you just learn more and more, and you learn what you can do as a manager. Um, and I feel in a really good place that now, in the best place that I've been in the past few years, there was a time where I felt I was a bad leader, I didn't deserve to have a team, I didn't really want to run the company anymore because every single day I would come in, be full of anxiety, have to do a big breath before I like walked into the room. Um, just because I would always feel like no one's happy, everyone hates me. Um it was really, really tough. I'm gonna be honest, and yeah, I think I've just learned so much from that time. Um, so that today we have a lovely team, there's no negative energy, there's no silent competition, there's no like nasty vibes because it's just it gets cut out as soon as I see it. Um, people love their job genuinely. I just did all the appraisals recently. Everyone was like, I just love my job, I just love working here, and it makes me beyond happy to hear that and to know that you've created that culture. Um, so I hope this has helped. I really do wish I had this episode to listen to a couple of years ago, it would have saved me a lot of time and a lot of money and energy. Um, but that is pretty much all from me today. I hope this has helped you out. Um, if you've got any questions or you know, if you're going for anything similar, please feel free to send me a DM on Instagram and we can chat about it. But I think other than that, I have given away all of my knowledge today. So I will see you on the next episode.