Beyond Birth: Maternal Health, Mental Health, and the Power of Support

A smiling pregnancy can still be full of fear, and a “healthy” birth can still be followed by a mental health crash. We sit down with Pastor Jamie Bruning and Pastor Todd Bruning for an honest, personal conversation about maternal mental health, postpartum depression, and what support actually looks like when the house gets quiet and the days blur together from exhaustion.

Jamie shares what it was like to carry deep anxiety while loving pregnancy, then hit a wall after their son arrived early: feeding challenges, severe sleep deprivation, and a loneliness that made even basic meals feel overwhelming. We talk about why postpartum depression often goes unreported, how guilt and self-blame keep parents silent, and why “bounce back” culture harms mothers and families.

Then the story widens into parenting a child with special needs and navigating an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis. Todd and Jamie explain what helped them stay connected as partners, why a safe space matters more than unsolicited advice, and how therapies such as occupational therapy, speech therapy, applied behavior analysis, and food therapy became practical bridges for communication. We also get specific about community care: respite, rest, listening without fixing, and consistently checking on caregivers.

If you know a new parent, a caregiver, or a family in your faith community who is carrying more than they admit, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share it with someone who may need it, and leave a review with the one kind of support you wish more people offered.

Transcript

Why Maternal Mental Health Matters

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to One Soul Matters, the podcast where we engage conversations around healing, hope, faith, relationships, and the realities that shape our everyday lives. I'm Reverend Jermaine Alberty, coming to you from Las Vegas, Nevada.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

And I'm Reverend Jamie Bruining. Thank you for joining us for another episode.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

And I'm a guy. I'm Pastor Todd Bruning.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Yeah, Todd is a very special guy to both me and to Jamie. We are so happy that he has chosen to join us for this episode, One So Matters. May is several things. It is Mental Health Awareness Month. It is Maternal Health Awareness Month. And so many times there is this connection between mental health and maternal health. And so we thought we would have a conversation. A conversation that we wanted to have that would be honest about maternal health that goes beyond pregnancy and even childbirth, but also one that talks about what it's like for mothers who may be experiencing postpartum depression. Pastor Jamie has bravely agreed to share her story with us. And you cannot go through a storm and weather that storm without a strong partner. And so we're grateful that Pastor Todd has decided to join us with this conversation also. Maternal health is not only about delivering babies, but it's also about emotional health, mental wellness, recovery after birth, caregiving fatigue, family support, parenting children with special needs, and the ongoing health of mothers long after the hospital stayed in. Pastor Jamie, I want to invite you to share with our listening audience that personal story you shared with me about your experience when you found out that one, you were pregnant, and then share with us what that experience was like after you gave birth. So I'm going to just pass them on to you. And I'd love for you just to share with you our story. And then Todd, I invite you just to jump in wherever you see a need to fill in that gap. And then we'll come back with another question. So, Pastor Jane, talk to us.

SPEAKER_04 2:23

Thank you. Sounds great.

Pregnancy Joy With Hidden Fear

SPEAKER_04 2:25

So we had been trying for about two years to get pregnant, and I had just kind of given up and decided it was never going to happen. And then we found out after we moved to Texas that I was pregnant. And I felt like I was so nervous and so scared. And I believed that I had done something to mess this up. We were with family and friends, and I had a margarita. And then two weeks later, found out I was pregnant. And I thought, oh my gosh, I've already messed this up. And all throughout my pregnancy, I was scared that I wouldn't make it to full term. I mean, it had taken us two years to get to this point. And so I remember seeing a therapist because I really wanted to deal with this. And then there was also the whole issue of, you know, once he was growing and inside of me, I didn't want him to come out. I wanted to keep keep him there to keep him safe and protected and really had to work through all of those issues. And then was so excited to see what he looked like. And with every sonogram, I just wanted to see him more and be able to meet him. And at the same time, wanted him to stay right where he was because I knew he was safe and protected inside of me. And so it's it's interesting because it's not anything that I've ever heard any other mother talk about was this desire just to keep their their baby safe and fear of them being born.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

I know that one of the things I remember is that you absolutely loved being pregnant.

SPEAKER_04 4:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Just about every second of the experience.

SPEAKER_04 4:12

Yeah. I had a little bit of nausea, but I didn't really have morning sickness, and I had an excuse to be bigger. And so as I grew larger, uh it was okay. So I didn't have to worry about body shaming or any of those things. Yeah, I really, really loved being pregnant. It was a fun time for me.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

But as you share, there there was a backstory there and great apprehension and anxiety as you share the story now.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

In the midst of what looked like constant exuberance.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

As I was watching you go through the whole experience of just smiling and talking to people, and you couldn't say enough about how excited you were and how blessed you felt. But there was something else stirring.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

I didn't really know anything till you read those journal notes to me. So it's just kind of wow.

SPEAKER_04 5:12

Yeah. And it's interesting because I think as women, we kind of put that front up or have that persona of everything is fine, and we're excited and happy, and we don't necessarily share the backstory or share what's going on behind the smile. Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

One of the things that we couldn't talk much about was getting his room prepared and all of the things necessary in order to plan and prepare for a child coming into our house, baby proofing and all of those things. And I kept trying to get your opinion on different things. And that was not something you really wanted to do.

SPEAKER_04 5:53

No, I couldn't even do the baby registry. I kept looking at things and it was so overwhelming. And I even the thought of going into a store to pick baby things, I couldn't do it emotionally. And so then I started looking at things online and trying to think pick things online. And I did some of that. I think you did quite a bit of that. Because I just, I don't know, emotionally I couldn't deal with it. So it was interesting because it's there's this excitement, there was this overwhelm that was going on, and then fear all at the same time. But there is such an exhaustion in carrying another person, and I wasn't used to that level of exhaustion. Then that hidden that hit the emotional piece too of why am I so exhausted? I should be able to do this, I should be able to pick toys or clothes in a baby registry. How come I'm not able to do this? And so it was just this cycle of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

Yeah, and then you use the word cycle, and like there were ups and then there were crashes even during pregnancy.

SPEAKER_04 7:01

Yes, definitely. And then during pregnancy, doing all the tests and doing all the checkups and everything, and then finding out that I had gestational diabetes and having to manage that in the midst of everything else. Yeah. It was a lot.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Yeah. I mean, you were handling a lot.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

I was. Well, first of all, I want to thank both of you for your transparency of sharing this because oftentimes with faith communities, we don't get this transparency. We typically say, hey, just believe God, we're gonna do this thing by faith. And what you're sharing is huge because when people think about maternal health, they often don't think about the emotional and the psychological health that goes along with that. They tend to think strictly about the physical complications. But these things matter.

What Postpartum Depression Felt Like

SPEAKER_00 7:51

And so I want to pivot as we prepare for this interview. We talked about postpartum depression. And the research tells us that one in seven women experience postpartum depression. And some studies suggest the numbers may actually be higher because many women never report the symptoms or receive treatment. Postpartum depression doesn't always look the way people's back. Sometimes it looks like sadness, sometimes it looks like irritability or withdrawal or emotional numbness or exhaustion or fear, or even the person feeling overwhelmed. And here's one last thing. Sometimes feel guilty for not feeling joyful all the time. Jamie, share with us to the best of your ability and desires, what it felt like during that time when you were experiencing postpartum depression.

SPEAKER_04 8:45

Okay, thank you. So he came three weeks early, my sweet boy, and I had no idea what I was doing. I I wasn't producing milk yet. And just that piece right there was so demoralizing because I didn't immediately I didn't feel like I was doing what a mother should do. So there was that piece, there was the joy of having him, but he also we had to supplement with formula, and so he was feeding every two hours, and so I was up and he would take 45 minutes to feed. And so I was not sleeping hardly at all. And Todd was senior pastor at a congregation and still in not even a fur, not even one year.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Yeah, I mean, it was as we were moving that we discovered you were pregnant, and so this was all occurring. Pregnancy was in the first nine months, and then I hadn't even been there a year when he was born. Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:52

So and so with the demands of the church and being the senior pastor and evening meetings, I was alone quite a bit, and I had no idea what to do other than feed him and you know, try and get him to sleep. And I was trying to like the first two weeks, we got meals and it was wonderful. And after that, it was like, okay, what do I do for lunch? You know, what do I do for dinner? And even trying to sort those things was so much, it was so overwhelming. And I thought, what is wrong with me that I can't figure out lunch? And it was so hard. And I thought, I'm just failing. I am failing at this mothering thing, and trying to juggle everything and not recognizing that I was experiencing postpartum depression. It was just this deep, deep, deep loneliness. And I didn't know how to talk about it. And I think at some point someone offered me a Stephen minister, and I thought, how can I have a Stephen minister? I don't have time. Number one. Number two, my fear was all I would do is complain about my senior pastor husband who was so busy with the church that we didn't get time together, and I didn't think that was a good way to work with the Stephen minister from the church where my husband was serving. It just, I just did not, I didn't know what to do. And I was in such deep pain, emotional pain, and sadness.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

If I remember, it took us at least a couple of years before we attached the words postpartum depression to that whole time frame.

SPEAKER_04 11:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Right? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

And because I wasn't telling anyone, I wasn't telling my OBGYN, I wasn't telling anyone else what I was feeling or how alone I was feeling. And so no one could help me say, hey, maybe this is what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

One of the most unhealthy expectations society places on mother, and that pressure is to bounce back quickly. Yes. You know, they want you to bounce back physically, bounce back emotionally, bounce back professionally, bounce back socially. And sometimes, as you point out, women are expected to recover while barely sleeping. Yes. And then people often don't recognize or acknowledge how traumatic childbirth itself can be sometimes for women. And you mentioned having to deal with a health challenge. So the health challenge during pregnancy, and then there's all these different things like Nick Hughes days or even loss experience, people often don't leave room for the healing process emotionally that it takes after childbirth, not alone, physically.

Early Signs And Special Needs

SPEAKER_00 12:55

And so what I'm really love to hear from you uh about is that you go through this stage where you're dealing with postpartum, and then both you and Todd discover that you have a child with special needs. Yeah. Talk to us about that.

SPEAKER_04 13:15

Okay. I remember when Nikhil was in the bassinet, and I would see the bassinet kind of moving, and I would go and check on him, and he would be moving his head and bumping it against the side of the bassinet. And I thought, what is wrong? Why does he keep doing this? And so, like almost immediately, I noticed some very different things about him than other babies. Looking back, what I realized is he was looking for stimulus, some sort of input, which they call stimming. Yeah, stimming. So as he grew and as he progressed, every time we went to the doctor, he wasn't hitting some of his cognitive milestones. And we just kept thinking, well, he was three weeks early, and we had him at the preschool at our church. And someone came out in when he was in the toddler class and just was evaluating all the little babies. And they did an evaluation of Nikhil, and they said he's really behind on his developmental skills. And they said he doesn't stack blocks and he doesn't pick up Cheerios. And I was like, he doesn't pick up Cheerios because I haven't given him any. So he doesn't know how to pick up Cheerios. What do you mean? And they were talking about just his fine motor skills, his fine motor skills. And and I was so mad at this person. I was like, how dare you? You don't even know him, you don't know us. And turns out she was accurate, but just that even that little visit from that lady and her words were devastating because I was doing everything I could as a mother to take care of him and to, you know, do right. And now you're telling me that something's wrong with him. And so I immediately went to, what did I do wrong? And what have I not been doing? And okay, what do I need to do now? And the pressure was enormous, which then I think that kicked me into a different depression or even further into depression. And I think it was around that time as we were talking about this, and mentioned it to someone who had a counseling background. And she said something about postpartum depression. And I thought, well, that doesn't make sense. Postpartum depression is right after you have a baby, right? And, you know, and she said, no, it doesn't, that's not necessarily how it works. And it just hit me finally that, oh my gosh, all this time I've really, I've really been struggling. And maybe I have been dealing with postpartum depression this whole time. And then started asking for a little bit of help in that.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Yeah. And so meanwhile, we're we're tracking his development now. We're very conscious of that and start to set him up with speech therapy and occupational therapy. And somewhere in the corner of our minds, we began to, you know, just track his development with other kids that we had seen, and the word autism started to creep into at least our thoughts. I'm not sure if we even dared to say anything. And I just remember one meeting that we had with an occupational therapist, and and she asked whether or not we had had him screened yet for autism. Do you remember that at all? No. Okay. I'm not a hundred percent certain. I was trying to remember whether you were there or not. And I just I I remember feeling it was I think it was one where I was I had taken him and just feeling like it was a gut kick. And then I needed to share that information with you and kind of figure out okay, so where do we go from here? Anything about this? Do you remember?

SPEAKER_04 17:25

I don't. It doesn't mean that we weren't together.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Right. No, I know.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

I mean, it was it was a lot that we were dealing with and a lot that I was trying to take in.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

I'm just curious as to when you remember that word autism coming in first into the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

I think it was somewhere in the journey with speech therapy and with one of his first speech therapists.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Yeah. It's amazing how as uh partners, as parents, when we're going through things, people ask me, Do you remember when your children were growing up? I'm like, huh? What do you mean? Because I I feel like back in the day they used to have these things called cassette tapes. And so you would be able to record over the cassette tape, you know, and I feel like that's what our brain does sometimes. I feel like it has information and then it records over information, and so you get a blend of information. And so what we what we what we know is studies consistently show that parents of children with disabilities experience significantly higher rates of stress, anxiety, depression, and care for caregiver fatigue. And many of those parents don't feel seen, and many may admire them from a distance, but really don't understand what daily life is actually requiring of them.

Practical Support That Actually Helps

SPEAKER_00 18:56

And so what I'm what I'm really curious about is this is that what would be some ways, practical ways, that persons could help parents who are living with children who have disabilities of any kind. What kind of ways might a person support or help help a family? Because my hope is that as people listen to this podcast, not only do they hear your story, but they also pick up some ways that they can be supportive when parents are dealing with children who may have special needs, but also just how they can support that mother after childbirth. So, what kind of suggestions do you all have? Some practical help.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

The first thing that I think about immediately is started with our conversation about postpartum depression and me knowing about Jamie's exhaustion and just the dire need to rest during that time, to be able to get a break from the child who was so demanding, and just to be able to get some time, unbroken time to sleep.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

How desperately that's needed. And I would say, as a parent of a special needs kid, who especially we have to follow the lunar calendar, because you know, if the moon is in a certain stage, he doesn't sleep that night. So we're constantly monitoring exhaustion still, and just to be able to get a break for an hour or two, just to be able to get some respite, so helpful. But when you have a special needs kid, when you have a kid with autism, that volunteer, that person needs to know the kid well enough that there's a trust bond being formed. And so there's almost a trap that we set up from the beginning where he trusts us, but trusting others is a challenge. And so that respite care, there's nothing there's no other need that I know of that is so continuous as the need for just two or three hours, two or three hour break. You know, for me, I we're always talking about how to plan a weekend because it when he's in school, there's a rhythm, but when he's not in school, he needs a rhythm. And so we have to keep going constantly to keep him engaged, entertained. That's what jumps to mind immediately for me.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

Yeah, sleep. Sleep, absolutely. The other thing I thought of was just safe space to talk. Someone who'll just listen, not fix anything, not have any answers. Excuse me. Safe space just to share and not a no judgment, no answers, just space to talk. Space to talk.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

And this is just That dawned on me that the one of the one of the things that I so much appreciate, you know, in this process of discovery about what was going on with Nikhil, once we settled in on we're dealing with autism, this is an autism spectrum disorder. It felt like both of us clicked this language and this approach. We're not going to try and cure him. We don't think that there's something wrong with him that we have to fix. We want to be able to adjust our lives to respond to what his needs are. And that we both did that together in the midst of all of this. It it became instead of the disability becoming something that pulled us apart, we had a common purpose. And that was how do we learn as much about him so that we can work together to be as helpful as possible. And that's the orientation that it was really hard to get other folks, especially other folks in church, to wire in. Everybody else had ideas on how to fix him. If we change his water pH or do something, this is how you know people have cured their autistic kid and gotten him to speak.

SPEAKER_04 23:23

And and if you eat this certain food or go to this certain doctor, yeah. Lots of advice on things to do, but no safe spaces just to be able to say, this is hard.

unknown 23:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:41

And just leave it.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

I think for us, we began to see, I mean, because because we needed to see it this way. Autism is a gift from God. Nikhil is a gift from God. I mean, it was a surprise, it was a miracle. We weren't quite sure that this was ever going to be able to happen for us. So there was a miracle there. God brought him into our lives for some reason. So help us, God, to figure out how this is a miracle. And somewhere in that, it felt like that separation that occurred while we were going through the postpartum timeframe started to heal. I mean, there were still different things that we weren't on the same page about, just like all couples.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

But once we realized, okay, we're gonna work on this together, we've got a plan. We've got OT, we've got PT, we've got our speech, and all that.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Then it was horse therapy, and then it was OBA therapy, applied behavioral analysis. And and that's something that was a life changer for us because we had no way of communicating with him. I mean, verbal expression has always been his challenge. And so he never developed the ability to really form complete sentences on his own. And so being able just to understand what he was looking for, what he was needed, what was needed to have a bridge, and applied behavioral analysis therapy helped begin to create bridges for us, create a vocabulary for him. So he was able to communicate with us at least his essential needs, and we were able to understand his expressions. And then food therapy. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

We've done a lot of therapy.

Choosing Acceptance Over Fixing

SPEAKER_00 25:39

Yeah. Well, I you know what I think this conversation has exposed is maternal health is not solely a woman's issue, it is a family issue, yes, a relationship issue, a community issue. And that just having Todd on this podcast with us really shows how important partners matter deeply in maternal wellness and the support that partners can provide is so very important. And sometimes that means noticing that exhaustion, noticing that withdrawal, noticing when someone no longer seems like themselves. And partners can be able to provide that support. And I think also what you all have conveyed is the support that you all begin to have one for the other. And so I think it's so important that what you all have conveyed is that healthy communication matters. And so asking your partner, what do you need, or how can I help, or what's overwhelming you right now, those can be things that can change that emotional climate of the household. And so I'm hoping that grandparents and siblings and friends and faith communities that are listen to this podcast can help that mother, that father, those partners who are raising children know that they are not alone. And I really feel like that we have to make sure that our communities stop remotely romanticizing and exhaustion and being over wham as some kind of badge of honor, but recognize it for what it really is. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

I do want to take a moment just to shout out to Jamie's parents. Sometimes, as you're talking about in-laws, it can be easy to you know see an intrusion or something like that. And and they were they knew that we needed help and support with Nikil. And so for a number of years, we lived in the same house together, and they stepped in in so many different ways to to help us be able to have respite, to watch Nikhil so that we could go out to a restaurant, or we could watch a movie, or we could do self-care. And without that kind of you mentioned grandparents, and I just said, you know, that was a life changer for me.

SPEAKER_04 28:17

It was actually because they because we were living together, I was able to go back to work. That's the only way I could do that. So they were an enormous source of help. Enormous.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

And still to this day, pick Nikhil up from school, you know, so that I can finish a day's work and Jamie can finish a day's work before we get into our evening routine.

Asking For Help And Tag Teaming

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Well, as we come to a wrap up, I really want to make sure that people understand that one of the most harmful beliefs in some spaces is the ideal that asking for help means weakness. But healing often begins with that honesty. And I heard y'all mention therapy a lot. Therapy is not weakness. I heard y'all mention rest. Rest is not weakness. I heard with us that there may be a need for even support groups. That's not weakness. And even if you need to take medication to address whatever you're dealing with, that's not weakness. What we want to make sure we have our emotionally healthy communities that create room for vulnerability and that people have permission to say, I'm tired, I'm overwhelmed, I need support. And so today we want you to know that your health matters. So, Jamie, Todd, would you all like to give us any closing words for our listeners who are listen to our podcast?

SPEAKER_04 29:45

Ask for help. You're not alone.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

This one's not really brief, but I'll try and make it brief. One of the things we dealt with with our son was meltdowns. And they could go on for hours. He just something would wind him up, it set him off, and he could not come back down. And it's still a challenge that we deal with on an ongoing basis. And the ability to say to each other, tag.

SPEAKER_04 30:16

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

It's, you know, I have my turn dealing with it, and when I've had too much, I need to tag and say, help. And then that there's a partner who tags in, and then we'll probably need to tag out again. And and the the necessity of being able to rest while the other person is doing whatever the intervention is that we've trained, and the willingness then to step back in. Because sometimes a meltdown could last four or five hours. And there's no way one person can manage that all by themselves.

SPEAKER_04 30:51

And shouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:53

That's the thing. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Don't do this alone. Yeah, don't, yes. Well, for every mother listening today, you deserve care too. Not just appreciation on holidays, not just compliments about your strength. You deserve support. And to every partner, family member, pastor, leader, or friend listening, check on the caregivers in your life. Not only when there's a crisis, not only during pregnancy, but consistently and ask those deeper questions, listen longer, and offer practical help. Because paternal health is not just about surviving childbirth, but it's about helping mothers live healthy, supported emotionally, and whole lives afterwards. So this is Jermaine Albertie. I want to thank you for joining us for this episode of One Soul Matters. And if this conversation encourages you, share it with someone who may need it. And remember, healing grows in community. Pastor Jamie.

SPEAKER_03 31:55

Thank you so much. Grace and peace.