Knights of Eternity w/Rachel Ni Chuirc

An arcade robbery, a fatal shot, and a sudden awakening inside a favorite game... only not as the hero. Rachel Ni Chuirc joins me to unpack Knights of Eternity, a LitRPG trilogy that flips the script by dropping its protagonist into the villain’s body with Zara the Fury still in her head. What starts as a classic “save the princess” dungeon crawl unravels into a layered story about identity, agency, and the cost of choices when your own thoughts aren’t entirely your own.

We dig into how Rachel wrote the trilogy alongside her intense years on Baldur’s Gate 3, and why a pressure valve morning draft became a published series with Legion Publishers. She explains her “creamy” system design (immersive, character-led, and light on stats), and the craft behind alternating first-person chapters for the mc with third-person perspectives for everyone else. That structural shift delivers intimacy where it counts and scale where it matters. Expect honest talk about pantsing as a writing style, ruthless editing, and learning that the most powerful scenes are often quiet, human moments rather than big set pieces.

We also explore the broader world around the books and the warmth of the LitRPG community. Rachel shares early influences from anime to life in Japan, growing up over a book-filled shop in a tiny Irish town, and what’s next (a romantasy featuring a monster hunter and a sentient French-accented sword). If you care about game writing, audiobooks, or villains you can empathize with even as you want them to lose, this conversation is for you.

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Transcript

From Larian To Legion

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome everyone to In Other Worlds, a lit RPG game lit and fantasy podcast. I am your host, Jess, and today I am sitting down with the author of the Knights of Eternity trilogy, Rachel Kneekirk. Rachel, how are you? I am so excited to be here. Thank you for having me on, Jess. This is very exciting. Thank you. It's exciting having you on. So Knights of Eternity was your first trilogy. It was. How did it go? So give us a little rundown of the trilogy. So I started the trilogy when I was working at Larian Studios in Baldur's Gate 3. And it was an amazing time. Loved all of it. But we're like five years into production at this time. So it's like 2022. Release stage is like looming. And just the stress was building up. And I was like, I need something else to work on. Like I need something to write in the mornings before I go into work. Um, because there was just so much pressure. And writing was starting to become because we we had such a high quality bar that we kept trying to surpass every single time. And I needed something that was a little bit more relaxed. So I started writing this trilogy, thinking no one's gonna read this, I'm just gonna write this for fun. But I had a blast, and writing this actually really helped my writing on BG3, and having worked on BG3 really helped my writing on this. So it was actually, I'm really glad I was able to work on both of them at the same time. So I wrote, I think, something like the first 30 or so chapters, and then this guy called Brian J. Norden was like, Rachel, Rachel, you should uh you should submit that to this uh publisher. And I was like, why? And he was like, No reason. And I was like, I'll look okay. And Legion had literally just started, so I sent it my stuff, not expecting to hear anything back, and then they came back and they said, Yes, we're absolutely interested. And I was over the moon. And I then so by the time BG3 came out, I had finished the second book and was doing edits for the first. And BG3's success was amazing. Uh, we knew it was good, but in the way that we were like, we we've put a lot of effort into it, we've seen how much love and craft has gone into this. So we think it's good because of that, but we don't know what the rest of the world is gonna think of it. So it really, it just absolutely exploded. And then it got to the point where I had this book deal with Legion, who were absolutely amazing. I'm big fans of them. And but I was writing book three, editing book two, and during promo for book one while working a full-time job, and it was just it was making, it was making my brain break. And the people at Larren are so wonderful. Like I'm so forever grateful to the writing team. They taught me so much. They, they, like they are more than half the reason I am the writer I am today. And I was like, I would rather leave now than when things get really, really busy, because then my workload will just get put onto, you know, the rest of the team. It'll get split up. They might have half a situation done and they're looking at my squirrel writing and my all over the shop um setup of interactive dialogues, and be like, what, what was she at? I have no idea. And they would have to, it's it's quite hard go back to ground zero when you already have like two-thirds of a hot mess in front of you. So I said, I don't want to do that to them. And so I I left, which was super scary, and we had a big going-away party. But literally the year I left, so it was last year, the year I left, um, all three of the Knights of Eternity trilogy came out. So the first one is called Calamity, the third one is called Divinity, and it was an absolute whirlwind. We actually had a little launch in my hometown. Now, for context, I'm from Ireland, but I'm from like, do you know on the postcards where they have all the sheep and then the sea in the background? Like, that's where I'm from. Uh, I'm actually a little jealous. Don't don't be jealous, girl. Don't be jealous because, like, where I'm from, there's like they call my bit the town, and all my city friends say it's the village. And I'm like, no, you don't understand. When people say they're going into town, they're coming to my village. There's 1500 of us, and we're the biggest bit in yeah, of that part of the county. I don't know. I still think it'd be pretty nice. Try being a teenager, and your options are drink in the abandoned church or drink in the park, which was and it's I mean, definitely. It feels like it's that far off from teenagers here now, like when I was a teenager. I mean, honestly, it's just probably a bit wetter in Ireland. Like, that's that's probably the only I think it's a pretty universal experience. And everyone thinks everywhere is better, and it's only when you leave did you kind of go, oh did a wash, and wasn't actually so bad. Yeah, you're probably right. All right, so the trilogy is uh divinity, desecrate, or no, it's yeah, no, no, you had it, it's calamashi, desecrate, and divinity. So you had it, you had it, you just had the wrong order, it happens. The trilogy follows a female main character, which you don't see very much of, and her uncle owns an arcade, and her and her nephew spend a lot of time there, and I guess a kid comes in and decides he's gonna stick up the arcade. She gets shot, and then she ends up inside of one of the games in the arcade that she uh loves playing. I guess her favorite game, Knights of Eternity. The one she was playing with her nephew is the one she ends up in, and it's one of those I really wanted to give my own kind of twist on Lid RPG. So um, there isn't a huge amount of stats. So anyone listening to this looking for Rex and they're like more like a hard system kind of fan, this is it, this is this is more creamy, right? This is this is more this is a creamy system. But what I really wanted is I wanted one a female main character, and the majority of characters in this are in fact female. That was not a conscious decision, that's just how things ended up. And I wanted a really thank you, and I wanted a really classic uh a twist on a classic. So it is your your basic Daunt and Crawler, bunch of knights have to go save a princess. That's the setup of the game. But then when you go into the world, you realize it is so much more complicated than that. And the knights are not who they say they are, and the princess is not who she says she is. So it's it's very much a twist. And I also wanted it that so often when someone gets isokite, especially if they end up in a different body, they end up in the hero's body. She ends up in the villain's. And that's the first twist. And then the second twist, of course, is the villain is still in her head. That is a tiny, tiny spoiler, but it becomes very apparent very quickly. So the villain is in her head, and I love those kind of stories where her and the villain, in a way, like they have a whole arc over the three books as they get to know one another, as they try and foil one another, sabotage, all this kind of thing. And I really wanted that to be kind of the story. It becomes herself and the actual villain's story over three books. And it really, the villain's name is Zara the Fury. So initially, I don't mind saying this. So initially, the first book was supposed to be you uh Zara rescues eternity, right? Who is the the princess, right? And the plan was they were then separated, and they were going to spend all of book three together. So they were going to separate at the beginning, and then they were going to reunite in the third book. That had been my plan. But then Zara the Fury, the villain, came along and went, Fuck you. This story is actually really about me, and kind of completely derailed it. So while they do have their moment of reuniting in the third book, that it the book series became more about the villain and the protagonist. And it was such a blast seeing how like I look at how different their relationship is in book one versus at the end of book three, and there are total opposites. Yeah, they yeah, it's it's very, very different. Um, so I take it then that you had kind of the Panther method of writing, and you just kind of let them take you where they took you. Oh my goodness. I and this I did this at at Larion as well. Like I this isn't like something when I'm at novels, I I have a different method. Um you know, whenever I would get a dialogue at Larry and I had like a little mini brief, right? Now you could do what you wanted with with the brief most of the time. Like Larion was very freeing in that, which I really appreciated. But I really didn't know what the dialogue was about until I finished it. Which is why I'm I'm such a fan of editing. A lot of writers hate editing. I absolutely love it because I feel like, oh, now's my chance to make it good. Because I can't make it good until I I know what it's about, but I don't know what it's about until I finish it. Yeah, I never really thought about it that way before, especially when you're kind of a panther. Like it's hard to edit while you're writing because you don't know where it's gonna end up. So literally. Yeah, I and I I really respect. I remember I was at Little PG Con this year and I was on a panel about panters, and it was fascinating. Because you have people like Shami Stogel who plans everything out in advance to a T. So she's describing how she writes, and I'm looking at her in horror. And then I describe how I write and she's looking at me in horror. And it was fascinating. So, yes, I am a pancer and I love editing, thank God. So I don't I really respect people on Royal Road who who post like three to five times a week and just keep on top of it. I I think you're amazing because how on earth do you know what your story is about? Because then when they go back to edit it, of course they can make some changes, but they can't like move things around like I do when I'm done. So I just I respect the hell, I respect the hell out of anyone who like either through Patreon or all road or whatever it is, you guys are amazing. Yeah, I mean it's pretty impressive. Uh it's it's gotta take a very, very organized kind of person. Uh I'm I'm organized, but I don't think I'm quite that organized. Well, there's different levels of pantsing, right? Like it it's another thing. Like, I'm I'm on the pretty extreme end of pantsing. Like, I know some authors who are like, okay, I pants, but I always know how the book is gonna end. And I'm at the level of pants where I'm like, what's a book? You know, I'm pretty like it's not. I I'm I'm really hoping it'll click for me eventually. Like Jack Fields, who also raised Literal PG and has a fabulous series of books. Oh, and he's so just eloquent with the way he writes and speaks. He was on that stage at Liter PG Con. He did a three-hour live DD session. Uh he he was amazing, and we couldn't find you know the little DM board, like the little the the the board that DMs have in front of couldn't find it when we were running down. So he's like, oh, it's fine, I'll just stand up. So he stood up on stage doing all the voices, essentially like doing a performance. Oh, it was fucking amazing. Yeah, I've I've watched some of the clips of you guys playing DD, and it is always just so much fun to watch because you guys have so much fun doing it, and uh all of you players and and him as the DM, you all do such a great job. Thank you. That's really kind of you. You all do fantastic. And I one of these days, I'm gonna be able to sneak my way into that game. I honestly, if I have to write a book to do it, I will. Uh it it's honestly a privilege to be DM'd by Jack. So, and he's so over to doing it for anyone. He's such a good egg. I I think you I think you'll get in there, Jess. I think you'll get in there. People are gonna say, Jessica, what made you decide to write a book? And I'll say, I wanted to play DD. That's a solid answer. Yeah. I wanted to play DD with the DD group. Mine was I don't want to lose my mind from the weight of expectation. I mean, it's not there's many reasons to write a book. Yeah. One of the things I noticed when I was reading the book is throughout the book, you follow different characters, right? So you have Zara, who ends up becoming nicknamed Tima. So you have Zara and Tima. Yeah. And then you also follow uh the princess. Sorry, for anyone listening who's confused. So the protagonist doesn't remember her name. So that's the first thing she loses. So I realized this by about halfway through that, you know, it it was getting confusing. So the protagonist's nickname is Tima, and then Zara is the villain in her head. Sorry, for context. So you have Tima and you have Zara. Keep going. Yes. So yeah, the longer that she's in this game world, the more she forgets about her life in the real world, her nephew's name and the name of her uncle and all that stuff. So you have Zara and Tima who you follow around for a while, and then you also follow around the antagonists, uh, Valerius and Magnus and all of them. And I noticed during the book when you are writing from the perspective of Zara and Tima, you use first-person language. And then when you're following the story of everyone else, it's third person writing. Is that something that was intentional or did it just kind of happen that way? It's like you're watching their stories unfold, but you're participating in the main character story. It was, it's interesting because it wasn't exactly a conscious decision at the time. But I've since written another book, which I can talk about in a little bit. And I did exactly the same thing. And it just feels really natural because I want the reader to be like, okay, and in her head, and I see what she's thinking, because first person is reading, it's really personal. You know, there's a lot more emotion, there's a lot more what the what is going through the person's mind. And then you can have more like a third-person omniscient narrator. And honestly, like reading first person and writing it, it can get exhausting because you're like, oh my God, yes, a lot of things are going on. You're you're going through a lot of things, but let me see the other cool shit happening, which is exactly what I used it for. Because then I want you to see what they think of her when they see her and what she thinks of them. Like, I I love seeing the complete difference between those two sets of perspectives. So for me, it just makes the story more interesting. And I love seeing in other books. I don't see it too often, but I it is out there. And I just love seeing that in books because I I think it just spices things up a little bit. So it wasn't necessarily a conscious decision, but when I started, I was like, God, I'd love to see like what the Queen's thinking. God, I'd love to see what Valerius is thinking. And then it just kind of went from there. Yeah, I mean, it feels like when you're reading the book and and you have these perspective shifts from first person to third person, it it makes you feel a little more connected to the main character, Zara and Tima. And then it's for the other characters, it's like you're watching everything unfold. I think it helps you feel a little more connected to the other characters, then, because you can see where their thinking is coming from. Like Valerius, who is one of the knights, I really wanted to write him as if things have been different, the protagonist Tima would have ended up like him. Like they are, they are two sides of the same coin. And I wanted you, I love I'm a sucker for villains, where even if you don't sympathize with them, you understat, you can empathize with them because you understand why they ended up the way they did. And that's really what I wanted in the villains here. I wanted them to feel more like real people. Yeah. I mean, the the villains, uh, you do, you kind of you understand why they have done the things that they have done and how they really don't feel like they had a choice. And I mean, I guess it's kind of a spoiler, but what the main one of the main villains, I guess the main villain in the series, uh, is also from our universe. Yeah. And he had no idea, and he also didn't really have a connection. This is so much so many spoilers. Um, he also didn't really have a connection with the person that he was inhabiting. So he didn't get to have that uh relationship or perspective that Tima does, and he just kind of ended up going with the flow because he felt like that was what he had to do. I think so many people, and this is in real life as well, so many people are a product of of circumstance. You know, I think when we we talk about the nature versus nurture debate, I really think nurture plays so much more of a part in it. Because, you know, you can be the nicest person in the world, but if life beats you down enough, like we're not superheroes, we're just human at the end of the day. And I I really love those stories where okay, yeah, you want to kick the villain's head in, because you're like, just fucking do the thing. But at the same time, you're like, but I also see why you're so scared, I see why you're so angry, I see why you feel you have no choice, and I still want you to lose, and I still want the good guys to win, but I understand you better as a person. And I'm always just me personally, I love sucker for stories like that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I love them so much. So it was very, it was very much I wanted that were complex, I wanted heroes that couldn't always be heroic because other things held them back. I wanted a damsel in distress who was really horrified by her circumstances of why she's a damsel in distress. And it's really complicated why she is stuck in a tall ivory tower, essentially. So it it's something I I really enjoyed, and it is it is I the first two books are suitable for like 13 plus. I didn't write them specifically for teens. I wrote them so it's the kind of fantasy I loved reading when I was a teenager, and it's something I could chat about with my like with my folks. I could chat about with my friends. Like I wanted to write something that a lot of people could enjoy because one thing I love about Little RPG is so many people read it with their kids, which is lovely. It's super cute. I I'm a big fan. The third book is slightly older, I would say 15 plus. You know, I wanted to write something that parents and teenagers could read together and discuss. Yeah. And there's really not a lot of that. There is there is some in litter pg, but uh I would say a good chunk of it is probably not kid appropriate. Which which is totally because I I see it on Facebook all the time being like my my kid has been asking about this thing I'm listening to, but oh my god, I can't show the 99% of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you told you no, it's it is good. It it would be good for teenage-age kids who maybe really like video games but don't like books or have something they want to listen to with their parents, and their parents like Lit RPG. I think it's just a really good mix. It will, and and it's narrated by Andrea Parsnow, who is I love Oh my god. I finally I got to meet her for the first time at Lit RBG Con. And when I tell you I tackled this woman, I doubt. This woman. And she oh, it was just it was just phenomenal. And like listening on the recordings here and the care she took with every single character. Like I I cried when she started the book, and I cried when she ended the book. It was it it was just it was such a privilege to listen to her perform. And you know, I hadn't yeah, I've worked with voice actors like a little bit on BG3, like there was a couple of sessions, especially if it was like a very specific kind of characterization, like Pit Sop are amazing, like we could sit in on like the first session, or you know, it was it was a pretty open kind of setup, and like I I I yeah, I didn't really pass comment on the performance because like it's it's not my area. But if it was if some notes got lost in the mix, you know, maybe I'd I'd lean in there, but I hadn't really appreciated how artistic it was until I listened to Andy. And oh, sorry, I could gosh. We could spend the whole thing discussing about her. Yeah, I mean she's she is fantastic. Uh, I've listened to other I have not listened to the audiobook version of yours. I read the physical ones, but I've listened to books that she has done, and man, she is wildly talented. She really brings out all of the emotions. Oh, all of the emotions, and she gives like the best male voices ever. Like really, I I don't I don't know how I don't know how she gets her voice that low. It's it's it's it's some kind of superpower. That's why she's the talented one. That's why she's the one doing the books, that's why she's doing it and not me. Everyone would just sound like vaguely Irish American if it was me. So I really, I really appreciate. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah, that's why she's doing it. I finished the book and I just kind of had to sit there for a little bit. Um, I know I did my review of this, the trilogy on TikTok, and it wasn't my most energetic review because I was just kind of I would I wouldn't say I was in shock when I finished the trilogy, but I felt some emotional like damage. Good. So did I. So did I. I I balled my eyes out right in the finale. Yeah. So do you find your that you you find yourself as emotionally connected to the characters that you write as uh the people who read the books? A hundred percent. I always find, regardless of what I'm writing, my first the first book in it or my first pass on a character, if it's in dialogue in game, the first dialogue you have with them is always the worst because I'm I'm I'm getting to know the characters because I'm such a panser. This is a very instinct-based, gut-based kind of way of writing, which will one day bite me in the ass and I'll deserve it. But it's it so much more refined the further you get in because I get to know them so well. So by by book two, they are very real people to me. By book three, I'm like, I have to say goodbye, and I don't know if I'm ready for it. Yeah. I won't want to do details for people listening, but there's a final scene with Zara, the villain, and Tima, the protagonist, which you learn Tima's real name. And when I tell you, I was sitting alone in my on like on my couch and just having a cry. Well, it was it was very emotionally touching. But one of the reasons, and this was something I learned from BG3, is it wasn't a complicated moment. It was simple, it was quiet, and you don't have to do anything huge or big for something to be touching. It just has to be human, it has to be real. And that was a lesson I tried to put into the finale. So I'm delighted to hear it upset you as much as it upset me. And usually when a book or a series ends and and I finish it, I'm usually like, okay, no, I like that ending. Like, I wish that I had learned more about this, or I wish that I had learned more about that. This one was just, I couldn't have imagined a better way for it to have ended. I wish that we had maybe touched on the aftermath of once everything wraps up to see what happens um after that. So there's there was a very specific narrative reason for that, which was Rachel ran out of time. It's very, very literary reason, you know, storytelling focused, and I'd already gone, I wanted to keep each book around the same. So the first two books are 120, and then because Rachel is Rachel, the third one is 150. So I was like, if I wrapped up everyone in the way I wanted to, would have added another 10,000 words. And Rachel was already writing up until about midnight of the deadline. I mean, I'm really organized and and everything always goes according to plan. I drank so much. I was in Scotland for a couple of weeks then. My my little sister very kindly let me crash with her to finish the fourth book because I was just like bang it, or third book because I was just banging my head against the wall. And when I tell you the sea of Coke Zeros around that desk, yeah, we have very healthy coping mechanisms. It's fine. So healthy. Oh, stop. I was like, there was a 24-hour gym near her because I was writing for like 12 to 14 hours a day. I then was finishing by 1, 2 a.m., but then I couldn't sleep because obviously I had not been moving physically all day. So I'm going to the gym at 2 a.m. just to walk in a treadmill and like listen to some ASMR just to feel something again, to then go back and repeat the whole thing with stay very healthy. Very healthy. I mean, it seems very emotionally taxing, but yeah, I mean that's the only that's that's really the only thing that I I wanted which is fair or wouldn't have wanted from the end, was just little, you know, here's what happened after for Zara. Had been the plan. Uh didn't happen. That's okay. It's still the ending was still I don't I don't think it could have been better. Uh I just I loved that. I that was my favorite. That was the only thing that was missing for me. Yeah. Zara and team would just sit in the protagonist just sitting down together and having a quiet moment at the end of the book that I couldn't have ended it any other way. In terms in terms of that, their specific relationship. And uh oh no, it was just it was it was just a joy, and it's and I loved it in BG3 as well. Like there was a couple of characters you meet in act one, and when you meet them in act three, they've come such a long way, they've changed sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. In the case of Auntie Ethel, she was just exactly the same, and it was amazing. But it it's it's such it's such a joy to go on a journey with them. And when I say my characters feel real to me, like they do, and if they don't feel real to other people, or other people find them stereotypical, or they couldn't connect with them or anything, that's completely fine. It it would be one thing. Like, we're all gonna like different things, we're all gonna have different things we connect to, but it's I'm such a character-driven person, just like an imagination in writing and how I think of stories. So I end up getting very attached for sure. So have you have you always been that way? Or do you think that uh your time writing at Baldur's Gate before you started writing the books uh had any influence on that? So I always have, and then BGT ramped it up by about 10,000%, to be honest, because it's so character focused, you know, because I was I was mainly working on rather than big story parts, I was mainly working on, okay, this is your area, these are this is what you're working on. And then it like that just I think wired what was already there into being more character focused. I really appreciate people who can think in high level, but even I'm like I'm working in another game studio at the moment, can't say who, but we are working in things that are very character arc focused, and that then the story is we have an overall story, but we'll tweak it to match the characters. And it's it's I'm living the dream. I'm like, yes, this is exactly how my brain works, right? I'm absolutely delighted. Rather than making characters to fit the story, we're making the story fit the characters, and it's just uh I love it. Yeah. Well, that's exciting, and I can't wait for you to be able to tell us what game you're working on. That's gonna be very exciting. Um, yeah, so you mentioned anti Ethel. Did you kind of base Auntie Ethel on your grandmother? There was no kinda. She is my grandmother. Does she live in like a boggy swamp? And I I cannot like like she's my nana ramped up by about 800%, but she's my nana. Like, so uh we called her Nana Juju. She actually only passed away a couple of months after the game came out. So I was delighted that I got to so for context, Auntie Ethel is this little old lady you meet in act one of Baldur's Gate 3, and slight spoiler, but it's all over the internet. She turns out to be a hag, but she is such a sassy, horny question mark old lady who is who has some very fun one-liners, bullies you, but in a way that you're like, I'm kind of into this, and is just a very fun character. And I remember I had only been at Larian for like nine months. I was still on probation, and I was like, oh my god, I'm not meant to be here. Imposter syndrome, everything is terrible. Oh sweet Jesus. And I get this dull. It never goes away, by the way. Ever. Like ever. I was working, I was I got handed this character Auntie Ethel, and like because it was her first kind of moment in the game, and it was meant as a setup for like her later area, I could kind of do what I wanted. And I just it just popped into my head, my nana. And to give you context about what my nana is like, when I my my nana was like the OG edgelord, right? I was like 16, and I remember sitting in a cafe, my nana would do this thing where if there was a cute well maider and he wasn't at her table, she'd be she, you know, she made jokes that oh, I wish she was, I wish she was serving us, like, oh, I was newer here. Like, you know, she she made cracks like that. So she's doing her bit. Yeah, she's doing her bit, but I'm used to it at this point. So I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, Nana. So she's like, Well, this won't do. I'm not gonna reaction out of Rachel. She so she points at like at this guy in his twenties, and she's like, Do you see him? And I was like, Yeah, nah. I'd write the hole off of him. And when I tell you, I'm nearly passed out from embarrassment.

unknown 30:47

Oh my gosh.

Anime Influence And Life In Japan

Discovering LitRPG And Community

Publishing Paths And Market Reality

Growing Up Over A Bookshop

SPEAKER_00 30:49

That sounds pretty amazing though. She's amazing. We used to camp in her backyard when we were kids, and she would wait until we were asleep and then come out and jump on the fucking tent and then run back into the house, and all we'd hear is he. Yeah, that is that is that seems very anti-atal. Now, did she eat children? Not that I know of. But she'd probably have threatened us at one point. So you lived in Japan for a while. I did, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How do you think Japan influenced uh your writing? Were you I know you're a big anime fan. Were you a big anime fan before you went to Japan? Did it kind of ramp everything up for you? So I wasn't a huge fan of anime when I was in Japan. I went to Japan because I was a huge fan of anime. Like this didn't you know that kid in the back who's the total weeb and is kind of a weirdo? Yeah, that was me. And like again, in my in my village, you know, I remember someone asking me when I was like 13, you know, what hop, you know, an adult trying to talk to a teenager and adults with no idea how to talk to teenagers, and teenagers don't know how to talk to adults. They were like, What do you like? What are you into? And I said, Oh, I like manga. And they were like, What kind of fruit is that? Not mango. Yeah, I know. I I was like, no, no, honey. Um, so I like I was a huge anime fan, and I should still remember, I'm gonna show my age here a little bit, but there was a video shop in my town, and Spirited Away came out and like go in with my little sister, and when we see this, and I'm like, what is this? Like, oh, it's animated. Like, look, I that's something I can watch with the I'm the eldest of four. So I was like, that's something I can watch with like all the kids, and that's uh that's m Miyazaki, isn't it? Yeah, it's to do Jibya Miyazaki. He does such good work. I watched it every night for two weeks. I watched it every night for two weeks. I was I was blown away, and then I was like, what is this? And then I discovered anime, and then it was just I just off to the races, and How's Women Castle is also amazing. Yeah, the movie is better than the book, and I will get hate for that, and that is okay. I haven't read the book, but the movie's fantastic. Movie's better, movie's better. But um, yeah, so I really I was incredibly anime influenced, and I so I moved, I lived in Japan twice. So once when I was a student, I was very lucky that my university had kind of like a working semester, but they had like a whole bunch of contacts. So, like some people went to Ghana, it was amazing. Some people went to the States. Oh wow. So they had a contact in Tokyo, so I went there for a couple of months. Yeah, I went there for a couple of months to teach just to see like, did I like it? And it was so overwhelming. Again, I need to stress this. I was from a tiny village, and this was my first time seeing a skyscraper. Ooh. I I was I just I couldn't I couldn't wrap my head around. I actually felt kind of dizzy and a bit claustrophobic because I I just couldn't, I had seen them in American movies, like growing up with American movies, but I this was just so mind-boggling to me. And the fact that there was people on the 400th floor, oh, it just I still remember that moment like standing in Shinjuku, just like mentally tripping. Yeah, the first time I flew to New York, I remember looking out of the airplane. And I, you know, I've I've lived in Atlanta, I've lived in big cities, so it's not like I had never seen a very tall building before, but flying into New York and seeing New York out the airplane window was it was wild. It was wild. I was like, all these buildings are so close together and they're all so crammed and they're all so tall. How does anyone even see the sky when they're in the I only I only went to New York for the first time this year and was standing at the top of the Empire State and just like looking out and being like, I cannot like I can barely mentally comprehend how large this place is. It's just yeah, it's meant it was wild. And that and that's like I could never live here. Oh, it's just I mean, part of me would love it, but I couldn't afford it. So I lived in Tokyo a couple of months, and then afterwards I moved back. I went with something called the Japanese Exchange Teaching Program, Jeth. So it's like a government job. You go out, you don't get to pick where you go, but you you you get placed. So I got placed in Oita, which is like a 30-minute plane from Osaka. It's like right next to Fukuoka, which would be one of the bigger cities down um on the island of Pyushu. And I was there two years, and I actually loved it. I loved it so much. I mean, I died in the summer because I'm placed the Irish girl, if that wasn't obvious. And the Japanese do not really believe in air con. I'm also not very dark. Oh, listen, I I burn, I don't tan. It's same. I I had this little kid come up to me, and he was like, it was like sports day. So I'm wearing shorts, like like as in just above the knee shorts and a t-shirt. Obviously, every other female Japanese teacher is covered from the sun, head to toe. So I'm the only one there showing like a bit of knee. And this little kid comes up to me. And he he asked me, like in the cutest little Japanese, um, excuse me, Rachel Sensei, can I ask you a question? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, what is it? What's up? And he's like, can you tan? And I was like, because like my my my my legs are so pale, you could yeah, my legs are so pale you could see through them. So I was like, not really, no. And he he was like, wow, and he just ran off to tell his friends. I think he was seven. Oh, so I was great. I loved I because I a lot of the time I was the first foreigner any of these kids had ever spoken to. And look, I get it, and but I loved a lot of them were like because I'm tiny, so the 12-year-olds were like my height, so I got an awful lot of I thought foreigners were tall. And I'm like, would you like to not have kneecaps, child? Anyway, I pretended to karate chop a lot of students. I I I I was I was totally a good teacher, guys. I was I was very responsible in the classroom. I bet they loved it though. It was fun. I I I had a lot of fun. Little kids were my favourite, so like, you know, once they got to teenagers, they would ask more questions about like what is life like in Ireland. I loved going, I only went to a kindergarten like twice this semester, like in in the first uh half of the year. And I loved them because you'd have a five-year-old being like, What is your favorite colour? And then I'd be like, it's purple, and I just hear a whisper of, oh my god, my favorite colour is purple. And then it was it was just the fucking cutest. I blew their minds one day because they cut up their apples there. So it's really like they don't just take a bite out of an apple, they will slice it. So I brought an apple as a snack without thinking. I just like ate it during lunch and I looked around, and there's like 85-year-olds staring at me like I just walked on water. Amazing. I wonder why. I don't I think they they they they're just like, oh, it's it's too tough for your teeth or something. The teachers actually asked me to bring an apple next time and do it again. The next time I came. It became your party trick. My party trick is I I I I eat, I just eat it. It was amazing. I just eat food. I just eat food, man. I don't know. It was great. I loved it. But after after two years, I I really missed home. And I I came back, but I would absolutely say like going to Japan was great because obviously, and I think this is completely normal. When you love a country's culture, but you have never been there and you kind of love their media and stuff, you build up a certain image of what it looks like in your head. Because of course it's based on the media you have seen. And then you get there and you realize it's literally the same as any other country. There's pros, there's cons, there's good, there's bad. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter where we're from, we are all just people. Yeah. So so I'm sure that's the same. Yeah, I'm sure it's the same here. Exactly. Well, exactly. Like, I mean, there's people who romanticize America, there's definitely people who romanticize Ireland, you know. So, and then they get here and it's just like, no, it's just, it's just like anywhere else, you know, it's totally fine. Like, so it, I I think it was it. I'm really glad I went, and I knew that was gonna happen when I went over because I had spoken to other people who had lived in Japan, and they're like, it'll be fine. Like, you just it it you'll see, you'll you'll find things you like and you find things you dislike, and that's totally fine. And that's exactly what happened. So I still watch anime, but it's not nearly as much as like it was very much an escape for me. Like, I felt really, I think, and a lot of people who read Literal PG and Game Lit, and a lot of people who write it and whatnot can relate to this. I think I felt like an outcast. I think a lot of us get into this looking for a sense of communic community. And, you know, I found one through watching anime and reading some very dodgy scans in 2003 from people with very debatable Japanese. Japanese and I'm very grateful to that. Wouldn't have read it since that was the only option. Oh my god. I don't know. Like I remember reading like dodgy as hell Death Note uh scans when they were coming out. So did you know about LitRPG before you started writing your book? I had. Or did it just kind of happen to end up being a LitRPG book? So Brian had told me about it, and I had read some of it, and I was like, this is amazing. I've never heard of this. Like, and then I saw how big it is, but it's it's big in a niche corner of the internet with people who and the community is just so lovely. I need to stress this. Like, I am a tiny, tiny, tiny author, right? But so many people at Lid or PG Con, like whenever I've been on, like in Facebook groups, whenever I've done other interviews, they are so fucking nice. You know, and they're they're so nice. So I immediately started reading loads. So my my first two were the Bright Lade series by uh Jess Kio. Kajio. I still can't say that man's name. And Somnia Online, which I absolutely oh my god, and I was just like, Yeah, this is yeah, this is so cool. Yeah. I've not read anything by Jazz, uh, but I have I have read Somnia Online. It's good. It's so good. So it it it's just and library system reset is fantastic as well. So I have that one, I have yet to start it. It's a different tone, it's a little slower, but I kind of like that because you get a little more time with the character, so it's it's it's great. So it's it I it blew my mind. And I, as someone who initially for years, I wanted to be an editor working in trad publishing. And I think in trad publishing, there's definitely uh you uh you self-publish. Like I'm sure there is. Oh, there, oh, it can be so hoity-toighty, right? And so when I saw this and I saw these people who are self-published, and they're almost like kind of sticking it to the traditional publishing, who are like, we're gonna make our own money, we're gonna have our own fans, we're gonna do this. I thought it was amazing. And it's also why I love that publishers like Legion, who are a hybrid publisher. So, hybrid, all hybrid means is that there is, there will be a round of professional edits, a round of say copy edits, a round of beta reading, and that's it. So you still get a professional kind of run through of your book, but it won't be as long as say tribe publishing, where you know, your book might be two years in edits or circulation, depending on before it even hits a shelf. And that's after you've written the thing. So it's it's it's a much longer, slower progress and uh process rather. So I just loved seeing it and I thought it was it was fascinating. I hadn't read a huge amount about when I started it, but I was like, I wanna, I wanna do my own spin on this, and I want to give it a go. Yeah, I mean, a lot of the authors say that they all started off as fans, and yeah, a lot of the fans of the genre end up writing in it. Which is wonderful. It's it's just so heartwarming to see. And I I see a lot of I met a lot of people literally Lid RPG con who hadn't written for years or had never called themselves writers, and they started writing because of Little RPG, and it just warmed my heart so much. Jez is a perfect example. Like, Jez like got talking to authors in in the genre, and they're like, Do you know what you need to do? You need to write. And he was like, Well, I'm not a writer. And look at him now, he's got his own publishing house and everything. How many books he is? A million. That's not an exaggeration. Books out. No, that's not far off. But it's not far off, and it it's wonderful. I think it it gives people who would not have, you know, found a place and tried publishing. It gives them a place and it gives them a home. And I absolutely adore that about the genre. I mean, you because you think about these kinds of books in the genre, and they're not. I mean, morale you can find some in bookstores. It's becoming a little bit more popular, but yeah, before you would think, well, I have this idea for this story, but there's nothing like this. So why even? Like it's never gonna get I I'm even like the fact that like if you look at it, like we're coming up to 2026, right? It'll have been like 11 years really of literal PG common to Western audiences. And it is only now about to be published in traditional publishing formats, which is absolutely wild. And it really and it it kind of I think it's it's good in a way because I think because traditional publishing uh because it we've we've moved from so um like say 20 years ago, it followed roughly the 80-20 rule, which meant that 20% of authors earned 80% of the money in a traditional publishing house. So what that meant is we had a mid-tier list. So you had people who did extremely well, people who did okay, and then people whose book didn't really sell. And the benefit of this meant that you could still make a living off writing, even if you weren't like on a New York Times bestseller list. And what's ended up happening is we are now in a stage where I think it's five percent of authors earn 95% of the money, which means mid-tier authors are vanishing. And what that ends up Yeah, they just don't exist. They just don't exist. And this isn't just books, this is music, this is films, like it it's it's across the genre. So you end up with more and more money is put into one project, it's a huge swing. And if it's a miss, that's can be devastating. You see that with game studios as well, because things are so much more expensive and advances are so much bigger, and it's wonderful seeing self-publishing and hyper publishing be so on the rise and also be rightfully recognized for how important they are. I completely agree. Um, I'm so happy to see just unknown authors that are like, well, I'm just gonna publish it myself. I wanna do well and and do well because that makes more people say, Hey, well, I can do this. Exactly. I can self-publish my book, or I can find a small independent publisher. That's good. It gives everyone more books to read, which is fantastic. Oh, I'm I'm I'm delighted. And it's it's I at another con I went to like a year and a half ago, there was a romance writer there, and she said that like a friend of hers was getting his debut novel, right, with the travel publishing house. And she was like, Congratulations, like, that's huge. Obviously, congratulations, whatever. And he was like, Yeah, finally there's an author in the group. And she was like, I've written 25 books and I'm on six figures a year. But he's like, Oh, it's not, but until until you've been published. And I'm like, Oh fuck yourself. That is, it's still there, so that attitude is still there, yeah. Which I don't like. I'm I feel like that's always gonna be there. There's always gonna be those authors who think that if you're not trad published, you're not really an author. It doesn't, it doesn't count. Yeah, I'm I'm sorry, like I'm holding my book. It counts. I hope she runs around his numbers with hers. She's doing very well even since. Good.

unknown 47:36

Good.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

So I'm delighted. I'm delighted. I'm delighted. But yeah, yeah, that was my TED talk. Thank you for coming. So growing up, your dad owned a news agent. Yes. Now, I I'm assuming over there, because I was not familiar with that term um or that name. So it's like a little you don't have news agents? We don't have news agents over here. So I'm as I guess from what I was reading, it's like a little shop that sells books and magazines and newspapers and like candy and cigarettes. It's it seems like it's just a little like a bodega. Do you is that yeah, I guess that would be kind of the clo I guess we'll just call them something different over here. It'd be like a bodega or just a shop, like yeah, it's like a corner shop. Newsstand. A newsstand. Yeah, kind of like a new standard. Yeah, I'd be like a new store. Like because it changed. Like when I was a kid, we had a deli as well, you know, like that kind of thing. And then as I grew up, we moved away from that because a couple of more shops moved into town, so we became much more like gifts and toys and books, and like w we were where you get cigarettes and milk at 11 o'clock at night. Like that kind of, you know, it's that kind of shop. Yeah.

unknown 48:52

Yeah.

What’s Next: A Romantasy Duology

SPEAKER_00 48:52

It's like a newsstand. Yeah. And I think that influenced your love of reading. I we didn't do like allowance or anything at my house, right? Oh, I was so deprived. No, I'm joking. But we we didn't do allowance, and if we wanted like sweets, if we wanted like, you know, chocolate or something, or crisps, chips, I think you call them. But if we wanted crisps or something, we we had to pay for that. The thing we did not have to pay for is books. Oh, that's dangerous. Oh, it was, right? So that's dangerous. My dad really gave us free reign. We could order whatever we wanted. Now it did blow up in his face when I think I was 13, and I I lived above the shop. And he comes up the stairs and I hear him roaring from the bottom of the stairs, Rachel! And I was like, What? What? What did I do? I mean, it wasn't me, but what did I do? And he's like, You ordered orgy books. And I was like, You you you didn't you didn't say I you I mean, I didn't know there was like a limit. Mother We never put parameters on this. No, we didn't. We didn't we didn't put parameters on it. Really, it's your fault. But I mean, what so it it was really, it was a hugely encouraging encouraging, and it was one of those, like, and I would help out, obviously in the shop in general, but like when I became a teenager, the kids and young adults section was under like the I I was in charge of that. It's yeah, it was so nice. So it was like feeling like I had like responsibility, and this is my area, and I took it very seriously, and it was great. It was it was hugely it was hugely influential in how much I read. Um, and also how uh grateful I was for it in my 20s when I suddenly had to buy books myself. I was like, these are okay, I see now why he was so mad. Yeah, yeah, it's an expensive habit to have. Oh, don't yeah, it's it's it's I I have four bookshelves. Love it, and it's not enough for year, and they're all full. And some of the books are stacked in front of other books, and I keep telling myself, I'm gonna read more of my books before I buy more books, and then it's a lie, I buy more books. And that's okay. That's okay. We accept that. We accept that what I love doing is at the end of the year, I set myself a challenge that I try, say in the month of December, I try to read only stuff from my own shelves, right? And one of the reasons I love doing that is I I end up with the most random mix of books I I end up reading at the very end of the year. And it's really I highly recommend it if you're feeling guilty about it. Set yourself a little this month. I will only read stuff I already own, and then the rest of I can buy as much as I want because I did that. I did that month, so it's behind. Yeah, then it works. That's good. Yeah, I've gotten into the habit of after I read a book, not so I I will keep all my low RPG books because at this point a good number of them are signed. And but I I still have two full bookshelves of non-lit RPG books. And so if I read a book and I decide I probably will never read this book again, I will put it in a pile in the corner, and then when that pile gets big enough, I'll take it to like a bookstore that sells or buys used books, and I'll sell it to them for store credit. I I I think that's fair. I I think that is I think that's more than fair. So what are you working on now? What's next? Uh so it's I finished my fourth book a while ago, and I know I was just bitching about trad publishing, but um, I'm trap publishing my fourth book.

unknown 52:32

Yeah.

Stats, Strength, And Charisma

SPEAKER_00 52:33

Is it gonna be a series? Yes. Well, it's the plan is for it to be a duology and it's a romanticy duology. Um so I have an agent which is very fancy. And one of the reasons I picked her is we had it when we had the the first mean, you know, when you're both kind of like she's feeling me out, I'm feeling her out. We're trying to see, can we work together? And we knew we got on with the alpha when we both started bitching about things we didn't like in the trap publishing industry. I'm like, I like you. Nice. And I also wanted someone who who wouldn't look down on self-publishing or hybrid or anything like that. Like she gave some very practical advice on it, but it was, you know, it was great. And she was like, listen, if you want to self-publish your hybrid during your career with me, that's fine. Just give me a heads up. So she like she was fantastic. Now, will we sell it? Who knows? But we're gonna try in the next few months, which is very exciting. Because again, try publishing it all shuts it down before December, like from October onwards. Yeah, I know. And then don't submit in January, apparently, because everyone submits in January. So you should submit in February, unless January's kind of quiet that month, that year for some reason. Weird. I don't know. I just yeah, I'm like, because at this point, the nice thing I suppose about it is it's not my problem anymore. She has the book, she sells it, or she doesn't. And if she doesn't sell it, I'll write another one. Well, you'll sell at least one. I'll buy it. I like romantic. Oh, that's so kind of you. It is about I I yeah, I can tell you what it's about. It is about a monster hunter with a French talking sword. Okay. Okay. Does it so does it have a French accent or does it speak in French? Has a French accent.

unknown 54:18

Nice.

Practical Wisdom And Show Flow

Where To Find The Books

Encouragement To New Writers

Recommendations And Sign-Off

SPEAKER_00 54:18

Okay. Sentient sword. I like it. Yeah, there you go. Uh but we'll see. Uh, and who knows? And look at it, it's it's one of those things where, and this is why I'm so glad I worked with Legion and might again someday, who knows, if I do another literal PG. But why I was so glad to work with them, because it it was so amazing to see my book on a shelf, realize I did it, and then also be able to go, and I'll do it again. And yeah, and it does- I'm doing it again. Exactly, and I'm doing it again. And if it doesn't get tri-published, I'll self-publish it, or I'll go to a hybrid publisher, or I'll do something. You know, it's it's it's it's one of those moments in which I am so grateful that I've been able to write in so many different formats. Um, because it's taught me that you can't fail. You can finish and start again. Like that's it. There's no there's no such thing as failure. So it's made me you only fail if you don't try. Lit like literally. So if I seem kind of cavalier about it, it's like that's that's the reason why. Like the Knights of Eternity, I'm super proud of it. It didn't sell as well as I hoped it would. And that's okay. Yeah, it was good though. Thank you. It was good. You only fail if you don't try. Do you think that you will ever write in Little RPG again? Or is it one of those things where it really just depends on whether or not you wake up one day and you go, you know what, this would be a really good idea. It's more this would be a really good idea. Like I had that idea for that story. The next idea I had was for romanticity. If I get another liter PG I like idea, I'll I'll just do that. Um again, we're working on vibes. There's not a grand, there's not really a grand plan here. Yeah, I like that you don't try to force it into a specific genre. Because I imagine there are probably authors that will try to do that. They're like, I really love this genre and I really want to write in this genre, and here's my idea for a book. And maybe that idea would be better in a different genre, but they try to force it to fit the little RPG mold. And it's it's it's one of those things where and there's nothing, I think writing to market gets kind of shit on by authors sometimes. And I I must say, like, there's nothing wrong with it if you can do it well. And I think that's the thing. I think I think so many of us write from our gut that when we try to make the shoe fit, it doesn't, it doesn't fit. And that's that's I think that's more a proper criticism of it. It's and like some people can do that. They're like, I want X, Y, and Z trope in it. They build the whole story around that, and they can knock it out of the park, and that's great. Like that's that's no different than the one writing on the wall in Crayon, their magnum opus, right? That that sells millions of costs. Like that's that's oh I knocked my laptop, we're fine. That's like that's totally fine. I got I just got very passionate. But yeah, no, we're just vibing with it. And as I said, I can only fail if I don't try. And I had such a blast. I think one of the things that I see, and it's why I love talking to especially writers who like I've met so many people who are like truck drivers, work in ITs, security guards, like everything in between, who are like, okay, I'm six books in, haven't really sold any, but oh my god, I can see how much better I've gotten. And I'm like, yeah, writing isn't like this magical thing that you're born with and you wake up and you're good. Like my writing before I started learning was like, eh, it's fine. It's all right. It was good enough to get me the job, but there was like a lot of polishing to do, you know? And my writing since Nights of Eternity has massively improved. And I'm hoping a couple of series from now, I'll look back on the romanticity and go, and I've improved since then. Like it's it's it's literally practice. Like, I don't the the the guy who releases a debut and every single book after that is a knockout of the park. They are one in a million, they don't really exist. Yeah, it's way more often the guy who's been writing for years and years and years. Even Colleen Hoover, who I think last year had 14 of the books in the in the top 50 best-selling books across the world, were hers, which is insane. She self-published for years. She was just writing at home, like having a blast. And regardless of whether you love her or hate her, you you have to admit her books are everywhere. She makes a lot of money and she makes a living off of it. Like, and that's success. Well, I think sometimes that can be part marketing too. Oh, for sure. Like, I think if it's marketed well enough in the right way, even if the writing is not great or the story's not great, it'll it can still do really well. But there's a couple of books that I can think of that are not great books that just sold massively well, despite many people saying how horrible the writing. The only thing I would say that's true. Everything you said is true, but I bet you won't see another series from that author. Sometimes you do, but most of the time you don't. There's a huge push behind their first one. Yeah. It sells loads, and then they kind of vanish because the huge marketing push was enough, but then they're kind of left, like their name has to carry them, and it doesn't. Yeah, I mean, the one that I'm thinking of, they have not written anything else that I that I'm aware of. Nothing that was marketed well or widely publicly known. I will have sometimes bad opinions of books, and uh, but I will never publicly shit talk a book or an author. I can do constructive, I can do constructive feedback. I've done a couple of TikTok videos where I really didn't care for the book, but I I still, you know, I was like, this is what I did like about it, and this is what I did like about it, and this is you know, where I thought it could use. An improvement, or here was my opinion on this. Those were the reviews I learned most from. It's the ones who were like, This book was meh, but here's why it was meh. Like someone just like commenting, this is shit. I'm like, thank you for your opinion. But I haven't actually but it hasn't, I mean, it doesn't offend me because people are allowed to like dislike my stuff. Yeah. But the ones that really, really helped me are like, I didn't this bit worked, this bit didn't. I didn't like it because it did this, etc. And those are the ones I'm really, really grateful for because those are the ones that helped me learn. So this whole thing is like, I I and I 100% agree. There's a big difference between like constructive criticism and just being a dickhead. Yeah, like this book fuck sucked. Yeah. And you're like, well, oh my god, my imposter syndrome already knew that, but thank you for explaining why. So it's it's actually, I did a TikTok of all my favorite bad reviews, and one of my favorite ones of all time was someone saying, if you're looking for a unique world, creative characters, a well-written prose, read something else. It was so good. I was this and laughing. I was like 10 out of 10 review. Can I five star a review? I would like to do it. You got me. That was great. So good. Loved it. Wow. Carry that to my grave in the best way. Wow. Loved it. Okay. If you had to choose one stat or ability that you have that would be your primary stat or ability, what would it be? For something I really wanted to be good at, I would love for it to be strength. Okay, I see these buff Amazonian women, and I want to be one. Okay, I don't mind you getting that. You can be. It takes working on it. We're working on it at the moment. Zara is is goals for me. Like there's once I'm there, I once I'm there, I will cast play Zara. Oh, I will see it someday. You don't you don't even have to be there to cosplay her I'd be over the moon. And like it's it's it's one of the there's a reason there's a there's muscled women in my books, right? So if I had if there was one that I I could just pick, it would be that because personally on women, I love the look, right? If we were going by what you are currently good at, or at least sort of in life, I would probably do charisma because I never shut the fuck up. You are very charismatic. Oh, thank you. Well, at my at my the little book launch we did in my in my town, my dad was very funny. He said, uh, you know, Rachel really got her love of English and the English language off her mother. But you need more than that to be a writer. You need neck and you need bullshit. And she got both of those from her father. There you go. There you go. So I like it. Yeah, yeah. There you go. So desire, strength, reality, charisma. Both good stats, though. Thank you. Thank you. What are yours? What's yours? Now I want to know. My wish would be probably endurance. Maybe my actual would be wisdom. Why endurance? I mean, I'm I'm thinking of endurance kind of similar to stamina. I just would like to be able to go and go and go and go. Because that's why let you survive. If the zombie if zombie lands on me anything, that's how you that's how you live. Yeah. You endure through the hard times and you keep going and I like it. I like and I like wisdom. I wisdom suits you, actually. No, I see it. I I agree. I agree. Thank you. Yeah, I think I think it'd have to go with wisdom. I could do with a bit of that, I won't lie. No, I like it. I like it. No, I can see it because you you you I see it when you ask questions. Like you think about it, you phrase it carefully, you come prepared, other than like myself and Brian. Brian, who did the opening ceremony at Lid RPG and didn't was home over there? He was fucking brilliant, the prick. And he had no questions prepared, and he got up there and it was phenomenal. And I was just like, I don't know how you do it. I don't either. It it was it was hit between him and Jack, two charismatic pricks. For for context, I really like these people for anyone listening. I say pricks because Irish people can't express affection. They are horrendous and I hate them. But that's how we express affection. Yeah, I can't do that. I can't. I I do all of this preparation and I plan out all of my questions because I am really bad at thinking of things on the fly. I can't, I just don't, for whatever reason, I don't have that. I can't do that. You have the harder job here than I do because I just have to respond, but you have to like navigate and keep the flow going and stuff. So, like, you know, you you have the harder one. I just have to shut it on. So where can uh where can people find you if they want to uh get your books or follow you on social media? So the place I really recommend you get the books from is Legion Publishers, because not only are they have their own storefront and not only are the books beautifully printed, but they're cheaper there than they are on Amazon, and I get a bigger cut. So it's like a win, it's a winner-winner chicken dinner. For everyone, for everyone involved. Um, the audiobook is on Audible, I think, since they went wide, I think it's on Spotify and everything as well. I'm not sure, but it's definitely on Audible. And then in terms of social media, I have a Facebook page, Rachel Nickirk, but you can also find me on TikTok, where when the mood strikes me, I'll make a video about writing in video games. And shite on about my favorite bad reviews. Well, I will put a link in the uh YouTube video description of where people can find your books and where they can find you on TikTok. That's all I have for you, unless you have something you wanna get out there. Well no, I'll all I would say is anyone listening to this who wants to write in any capacity, I really think literal PG is a great example of like if you have tried to get trial published before and you have felt rejected, the thing you have to remember about trial publishing is they're not looking at whether a book is good or not, they're looking at whether or not a book will sell, which is fine. That's what they have, that's what they have to do. They are a business at the end of the day. Whereas literal PG is so much more open, you're gonna find people who are like, you know what I really want to read a book about? And like you're gonna find you're gonna find it. You can find it. You're you can find it. And there is so much opportunity to reach such a wide audience. So if you have been afraid to write, if you've been nervous about it, like literally go out and write it. The literal worst thing that can happen is it doesn't sell as well as you had wanted. You don't die like and then you just write another one and you keep going. That's like that's it's it's I I highly encourage anyone who wants to write, just do it and don't listen to anyone say that wouldn't sell, or like there's no market for that, does it? It's it's literally gemail. It's it's there. I mean, yeah, you you're not wrong. There are there are books about ants, there are books about little mushroom men, there are books about vending machines. Oh, I I I apocalypse. There are books about anything really. A mom and her three kids navigating uh an apocalypse in which the kids very quickly uh have powers stronger than hers. Fucking great. Like I didn't expect to get parenting advice and like you know, how do you deal with a five-year-old and make sure she doesn't pick an ability that can blow up her brothers? You know, it's great. Like there's just it's so interesting. Yeah, yeah. You can find anything. I know I agree. Do it. I can't write kids for shit. I'm so bad at writing children. Now, apocalypse parenting, the best kids I've ever seen written. Honestly, it is so good because she has three kids. Ah, well, that makes sense. Yeah, but it's it's so good. It's I'm like, oh my god, this is what children actually sound like. Can I can I copy it? No, I suck at this, but I appreciate it when I see it. Uh, I'll have to add that one to my TBR. I've not read that one yet. It's really good. I'll add that one to my TBR. It's so good. I love it. All right. Well, Rachel, you magnificent, beautiful unicorn woman. Thank you so much for coming on. Everybody else, thank you for sticking around and hanging out with us. Uh, you can check out my website, iowpod.com, for links to all my socials and where the episodes will be posted. You can find links to the YouTube as well. And that's all I have for today. Everybody keep leveling up.