Arcane Tides: A Journey Within w/Lance Krautlarger

What does it take to turn real pain into a world worth exploring? We welcome author Lance Krautlarger to talk Arcane Tides: A Journey Within, a character-driven fantasy that treats mental health with honesty and heart. Eldrin’s path mirrors Lance’s own time leaving the service, navigating PTSD and anxiety, and relearning how to belong—first to himself, then to others.

We trace the book’s DNA from a single therapeutic writing session into a full draft. Then the hard part: cutting a 150k-word manuscript, fixing head-hopping, and compressing travel to keep momentum on the inner quest. Along the way, Sanderson lectures and classic epics influenced structure, but the true guides were therapy and self-help—voices that shaped tone, pace, and purpose.

The story gets personal through chapter-opening quotes lifted from Lance’s own journals. We also dive into the cozy layer: in-world books, a bark-and-amber cookbook, and real recipes—pumpkin bars, porridge, muffins—recast with magical ingredients. Food becomes a ritual of care, a way to ground panic and grief in the small good things.

Alara, inspired by a real friend who demanded help be sought, anchors Eldrin’s growth with judgment-free support. The cleric is a therapist in fantasy clothing, the journal a tool that only reveals what you’re ready to read—because validation can’t be borrowed, only claimed. By the end, Eldrin discovers that the point isn’t rank, adventure, or lore; it’s presence with family, the capacity to rest, and the courage to move forward without outside permission.

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Transcript

Name, Book, And Big Idea

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome everyone to In Other Worlds, a Lit RPG Game Lit and Fantasy Podcast. I am your host, Jess, and today we have Lance. I'm not gonna try to pronounce your last name because I feel like I don't do it correctly.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

I will go ahead and break it down because I think a lot of folks would like to know how to say it. There's a lot of bookmail that goes around on TikTok where everyone's like, I don't know how to say this. So I'm gonna make it very simple. So break it in half. So kraut. So think German, sauerkraut, kraut, and then for the end, lager, like beer. So kraut lager.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Yeah, see that's easy. Now I'll never forget it.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Nope.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

So you have just written your debut novel, Arcane Tides, A Journey Within. What's it about? Give us a little breakdown for people.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Probably in the most openness of terms, it's a mental health journey. More importantly, it's my mental health journey. Essentially, it follows Eldrin, who is a we wouldn't say out-of-shape adventurer, but he's been on harder times. And it's kind of following how he's trying to re-enter the world because he's kind of lost himself in a lot of ways and kind of detached himself from groups of friends, from adventuring, from being part of the adventurers guild. He's just kind of taken a step back. And it in a lot of ways, it's it's that kind of like leaving the service, because I also was in the military, and Eldrin kind of has that same background for obvious reasons, but trying to find yourself in a world that doesn't really understand you anymore. And it's you know, it's kind of hard because, you know, as much as we all kind of go through the same stuff, we don't all see the same through the same lens. It was kind of like my mission to get out of my own head and try to get back into the world. And I thought I would do that with this story and then see where it takes me and see what it could do for me down the road.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Yeah, uh, so Eldrin in this story is he is just a very deeply to me, it felt like a very deeply internally broken guy. Like he just lost all confidence in himself and belief in who he was and belief in the people around him.

Mental Health As The Core Story

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Somebody asked me the other day, they're like, What books inspired you to write what you wrote? And I was like, you know, it's crazy because it's not like they're like um they use Sanderson as like the world building stuff. They're like, you do a lot of like Sanderson type world building, and I was like, no. And they're like, okay, well, was it, you know, Wheel of Time, Robert Jordan? I'm like, no. They're like, well, what was it? I'm like pulling self-help books out. And I'm like, okay, look, like I read this book or this book, and that's why I started having the tone that I did in the book.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

So you spent some time writing this book. Do you think that you took the more um like did you have everything planned out, or did you kind of let it organically flow as you were writing it?

SPEAKER_01 3:08

No, that's and that I think that's what's holding me up now on trying to write something else is I sat down the night I sat down to write for for therapy, I wrote the first chapter, and I was like, what the hell is this? I was like, I don't have no idea. And it, of course, there was a lot more to it. There was more, a lot, a lot of lore dumped into it. And I was like, okay, let's just see where it goes. Like, let's let's just pants our ass off all the way and see where where I get.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Having kind of pants most of the story, did any of your characters surprise you with where they ended up going or how they ended up being written?

SPEAKER_01 3:47

So maybe not the the first half of the book, because a lot of those characters were based on the friendships that like that I made going back to school. So I kind of made sense on where they went. In the later half of the book, there's a couple of characters, uh, Tink and Fitz that came out of kind of nowhere. They're both based off of people I knew and the and the service. They kind of just placed themselves there. Like I didn't plan on them, like it was very much okay, we're gonna start writing this scene and we're gonna go transition here. And then it was like, all right, well, I don't know where these three chapters and these two new characters came from. Like, I don't know what to do with this. But it was like, it was one of those things, and I told my wife, like it helped with a lot of it because the friends that Eldrin meets in the beginning are friends that I still have around, but in the later half, there are people that aren't around anymore. And it's like didn't expect to write them, didn't expect to go into that detail or how they help Eldrin on his way. But it's just kind of part of like bettering my craft because there were things with with Fitz and writing that character and Tink, like they had more personality, they had more depth, and it was like, oh, I kind of write, I want to write more now about them. But at the same time, it's like, okay, well, that story's over, move on to new characters and try to reinvent and do something else with the next characters I come up with.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

I actually really liked Fitz, like he's not a huge main character in the story, like you really only see him in a couple of scenes, but I think he pro I don't know why, he just was one of my absolute favorite characters. I just absolutely loved him.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

I'm a really big fan of Labyrinth, and he is based off a hoggle. And like when I when I was writing it, I had the voice in my head, and I was like, man, what is this from? Like, I know this from somewhere. Because you subconsciously you pull from everything, right? And so I'm like, where is this? Like, I have an idea, but like, where's the voice in my head? And then I just randomly turned on the movie one day and I was like, son of a bitch, there it is. I was like, there it is.

Pantsing The Draft And Surprises

SPEAKER_00 5:55

But yeah, maybe that's why maybe that's why I liked him so much, was because I love that character in the labyrinth. At the beginning of each chapter, you had quotes. Uh, where did you get these? Were those quotes that you yourself wrote? Did you read them in other places?

SPEAKER_01 6:13

They are part of my journaling. So for therapy, I had to start journaling, and I would I would write things that just kind of meant what I was going through in the day, or something I'd read, you know, in a book, and then I kind of twisted it into to kind of fit my life. And then as I wrote the book, I was like, oh, that would be really cool to have those kind of mental health quotes and then kind of twist them into a fantasy setting. And so that's kind of where they came from. I'm glad you asked that because nobody's asked that. They all just assume it's kind of like the Sanderson thing where he just puts random co-text information or lore dump and then moves on. And I'm like, somebody asked me about that. Like, like somebody asked, because I I've been willing to share that.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

I really liked, I really liked the quotes at the beginning of the chapters.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

I think the harder part was writing the chapter and then going back and trying to decipher through all my notes. Like, what fits here? Like, what could I twist or manipulate?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

So you wrote them, you went back and you chose the quotes after the chapters were done.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Uh, I like that. That's even more neat. Because that's that makes it a lot more thoughtful for the chapter instead of just randomly picking one because you liked it.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah, I think at first it was more random because there there are a lot of I think there's one mantra that I I just have adopted over the last couple years is the keep moving forward one, which is kind of synonymous with a lot of veteran healing stuff, veteran organizations. But then I was like, well, I want something more personal, more attached to what I'm doing. And then I think it was probably maybe around chapter 11 or 12. I was like, well, I'll just tailor them to the chapter I'm writing. And then that was the hard part, was then going back and looking at the gibberish I had written in my notebooks, where I'm just like, what was I, what was this, what does this mean here? What does this mean? And then just tailoring it back and kind of tying it back in. But I think that's where it became more therapeutic because even now, like my wife will send me a picture, like, hey, I'm reading this chapter, and I'll read the quote and I'll be like, oh. And I immediately remember what was going on in my head, what I was writing about, and why. And it's just like those little lines, just they always make me happy, especially when somebody sends them to me and they're like, Oh, I like this quote. I'm like, Yeah, but ask me why. Ask me where it came from.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Well, now, now someone has asked. I really I like them all. I thought they were really good quotes. And I was like, I wonder where these came from.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Uh so now that the book is written and it's out there, is there anything that you would go back and change in the book or rewrite?

SPEAKER_01 9:00

The first half, I always told it, I told this to the editor, and I've told it to a couple of friends that have written it or read it. The first 15 chapters was really me pen to paper, writing notes out, typing up what I had in my mind. I did a lot of like voice texts and stuff because I'd be out on a walk or driving, and I would basically write, you know, I'd of course dictation on some of the Apple phones is not correct, so I would have to decipher like why did I mention Crocodile? Like, what does that have to do with this? And so those first 15 chapters I felt were better written than what my later half was, but I did better character development in the lighter, so it's kind of like going back and finding the things that I did really good at and turning the knob up on that, and then kind of condensing it because I didn't think the book was gonna be that long. And originally it was, I think, 150 words, 150,000 words. And I got to see the editor, and when she started showing me what I could cut, you know, we cut it down pretty quick, and she's like, you know, it's gonna be really hard, you know, and you know, people don't want to get rid of their stuff and this, that whatever. And I was like, delete, delete, delete. Like, I was like, I don't care, delete, delete.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

I don't have that problem.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Like, no, not mine. That's not mine. Somebody else's therapy session, not mine.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

What do you think you're most proud of out of the book? What did you write? And then you were like, that was it. That was perfect. I love that.

Character Inspirations And Fitz

SPEAKER_01 10:34

So there are a lot of things that my wife will she'll send me text, like I was saying, right? During a lot of, and I've told this to I told this to my writer friend the other day. Writing when your body's in survival mode, you forget a lot of what you write. So there's a lot of times where I will get a text from somebody or a quote, and they'll be like, Where did this come from? I'm like, I don't remember. I don't know. Like it just so there's a lot of like one-liners that I wish I could recall something off the top of my head. But there are there are a lot of times where you know, at the end of the chapter or in the middle of it, you know, just a moment of like clarity, healing, like this, that mental awareness to where I'm just like, oh, okay. Like it it did help me, it did get me past it all. But I think I think for like a lot of that, it really is just the quotes. A lot of times I will just open the book up because I have I'm have a couple behind me, where I'll just open it up and I'll read some of those quotes from the beginning of the chapter, and I'm like, You did it, dude. You got it, you you got it figured out. Not all the time. I'm not you know, it's like not all the time, but it's I think some of those quotes are like the high points, but I think it was just just getting it done and checking that box off that I wrote a book.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

In the grand scheme of of things and how many people there are, not a lot of people write books. No, no, and even less uh publish them. In the book as I was reading it, I realized that it didn't really feel like much time had passed in the book. How long was it so he comes back home after being out for who knows how long in wars and campaigns and and things he comes back home and then he goes to the Mage's Guild to um try to learn more, and then I feel like he almost immediately leaves to go back out. How long is he actually gone over the course of the book?

SPEAKER_01 12:46

So in the very beginning, he's returning from the Grand Arcanum, which is probably a tier three day ride from him. Um, and then it's more or less like getting said those first chapters are really just him preparing. So like maybe a couple of days have passed. Um, but for the over length of the book, I mean it's really probably from like maybe say early fall to the following winter, the and maybe the beginning of spring, so just a couple of months.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

I think that was part of, and that's that's actually a good point that I'm glad you asked that because that's part of like thinking about timeline and writing. There was a Sanderson lecture I set in one night where he talked about writing traveling and writing when your characters are traversing. And I, of course, that weekend I was like reading different books. I was reading Lord of the Rings, I was trying to figure out like how do you convey that people are spending X amount of time traveling? And Sanderson was just like, they just show up. He's like, he's like, so if you're going from here to the grocery store and nothing is happening between here and the grocery store, you just show up. And so I was like, all right, delete the time, delete the like so I took a lot of that out, but it I mean, it really in the span of things, it's almost like a fall, kind of like a fall semester in college, is really what it kind of falls behind. Because in those later chapters, it's like fall's passing and it winter's approaching, so it's not a whole lot of time has passed.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Who do you think had the biggest positive impact on Eldrin?

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Oh, that was Alara.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Yeah, that's what I figured.

Chapter-Opening Quotes And Journals

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Yeah. So when I went back to school, I was working um really closely with our three PL at the time, our ex you know, external warehouse. And on the roster for the school list, I saw this person's name, and I messaged her and I was like, Hey, is this are you in this class with me at OU? And she's like, Yeah, and she's like, What's up? And I was like, Oh nothing, I'm I'm going through these same classes, you know, and we had already been in class probably for two or three weeks, and the the classes were starting to get harder and harder, and it was like you would get paired with people, but like you might get a crappy lab partner or you know, somebody that wouldn't ever be online. And I was like, hey, do you want to start tagging up and go through this together? At the time, I was not social, I'd cut myself off from a lot of people, and my friend Julie, who Alara's written over, was the one that was like, Oh, yeah, we'll tag up. We started hanging out all the time. We would meet up at a Starbucks and she would talk me through things, and we got really, really close, hung out all the time while she lived here and here in the city. She really helped because she was also a veteran, really helped with getting my diagnosis for PTSD and anxiety depression. She was like, Because there would be times we'd be sitting at her house and she'd be like, dude, there's something wrong with you, go get checked out. And I'd be like, Oh no, no, I'm fine. And she's like, No, you need to go go do this. And so, like, she really like helped me out in a lot of ways, judgment free in the ways that Alara is for Eldrin in the book. Was no judgment, very easy to get along with, very supportive. And just like in the book, she at the end of us finishing school, she moved back to Tulsa. And it went from hanging out every day, going, you know, going to softball games and all kinds of different stuff. Um, you know, hanging out with her, her wife, and her daughter, you know, that all went away. And it kind of was like, oh, lost my support group. Having that relationship opened me up to a different viewpoint in the world. I'd had friends that had, you know, same-sex marriages, that kind of stuff. But then being invited and going over their house and being accepted for how broken I was, and then, you know, kind of getting that educational, like how their life is, opposed to mine. And it was like it was like the first relationship I'd ever had in my life where there was no judgment. If you didn't understand something, you could ask. If you needed help, you could ask. And probably the best human being I've ever met in my entire life.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

In the series, before they leave to go on their adventure, Eldrin goes to the temple. Alara pushes him to go to the temple and talk to a cleric, and the cleric gives him a journal that he can write in. That how did you come up with the responses that the cleric had?

SPEAKER_01 17:34

This is kind of one of those things now that you bring it up. Maybe I I could have done these parts better. So really the cleric is the is my therapist, and kind of her responses sometimes. So a lot of it was how do you how do you put a therapy into a book where you're not having to go back to the town, right? And so that's kind of where the RuneTech journal came in. And a lot of those responses were from our real sessions, from things that I would talk to her about, probably did not understand at the time. There's stuff even now today. I'm like, hey, I remember you saying this six, seven months ago, and now I remember. But it's just like those really came from our sessions just sitting there on the couch, talking, and then trying to work through whatever disaster I was going through at the week.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

So, how do you think the process of writing this book changed you or influenced you?

Editing, Cuts, And Craft Lessons

SPEAKER_01 18:35

It made me more comfortable with myself. But I think honestly, it got me to the point where it's like getting me happy, getting back to where I'm happy about myself. I'm confident, slowly getting there. Being content with what I'm doing in the world and not really giving a shit about what anybody else is doing. I think it really helped with that. But at the same time, it's it's so hard to put yourself out there creatively because there are people that they're miserable in life and they're gonna have their narrative and turn you to you know tear you down. But I think in a lot of ways, it's allowed me to be more open of how who I am as a person and like you know, being honest and genuine when you meet somebody and just being that way with them.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

I think that's awesome. I mean, it's I'm it's better than writing the book and being less happy.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Um or learning nothing. I think it's important to when you put yourself through anything that's rough, that you learn at least something about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Yeah. I mean, it's it's very therapeutic and the way that I was writing everything down and like learning about myself because then it becomes very more you become very more self-aware of the actions you're doing and like we're talking earlier, like the relationships you're building with people, and you kind of realize you don't have to give yourself to everybody, which is kind of hard to do when you're trying to be open and honest about stuff.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

In the book, Eldrin goes to I gu it may have been a bookstore or a magic shop that had books, and he finds this tattered journal who we eventually find out belongs to someone else that shows up in the book later. Uh the back pages of the journal are empty. They're blank. Um and you can't write anything in on their magic pages. You find out later that there are things written on them, and he's told that when he is ready to read those pages, that is when he will be able to read them. I don't think there ever comes a point in the book where he can read those pages. Like the last page, there ends up being a a sentence on the last page, I think he says in the top corner.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Um, but I don't is it because he is still on the journey or yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

It's because he's still going through the journey. The idea is, and that's that's part of like writing and not remembering what you wrote, is because part of it too is the self-awareness of like when you're learning and like realizing stuff, like like I was saying earlier, like, right? My therapist has told me things, and I'm like, okay, yeah, great, I got that. And then six months later, I'm like, oh, that's what that meant. It's kind of self-reliance of like realizing, and I think for him, once the journey's over and realizing none of this shit mattered, right? Like the years of his service, yeah, cool, great. There's one percent of people that do that, great. The adventuring, all that stuff, it doesn't matter. It doesn't really define who you are, but like what matters is like for him, his family. You know, that is his like safeguard. That is, you know, proving that like there's no special text, there's no special formula that's gonna fix you. Like this path is meant to teach you. Like what matters in your life and then move forward. And I think for like Eldrin, I as I wrote that, I didn't realize that's what I was doing in a lot of ways. But I think for for him, that's really what it is, is even when I was going through school and like we would go through everything, like I would steamroll through everything, but then like on the therapy stuff, that's where I was doing like the real homework and doing the real work. Because like I would sit here and read. She'd give me these giant ass books to read, and I would go through them and I would spend more time on that. And then we would get into lessons, and people are like, Hey, did you go over this? And I'm like, No, like, no, I'm doing this, you know, or I'm doing that. But I think that was kind of the way of getting to the point of like, you know, we're always searching for somebody else to have the answer. We have the answer. We always have the answer. So I think our problem is we're always looking for you know, either justification in somebody else or that stamp of approval, like, oh hey, yeah, you're you're a good worker or hey, you're a good individual.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

And that validation.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Validation, yeah, exactly. And it's like that's not for anybody else to give except for you to yourself when you're ready. And like I said, sometimes it takes me a long time to realize that I've already said something six, seven months ago to the therapist, you know, and I'm like, oh, you gave me the tools. Oh, I did not know how to use them, you know. But I think that's really what it is, is like realizing that validation is something you hold the key to, and then in doing so, like lean into the things that bring you joy. So like for Eldrin, it's it's his wife and his kids and being home and being present, and you know, it echoes a lot with me and my kids.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Do you think that once Eldrin uh made it home that I don't want to say that he was content to stay home because it's not like home was ever a place that he didn't want to be, but do you think that he was finally at a place where he could enjoy just being at home?

Timeline, Travel, And Pacing Choices

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Yeah, I think I think for him at the end it's more of like leaning in that and being like, okay, great, I've taken stock of what I have done, what I have going on, and then looking and being like, okay, I can do the adventuring, I can do the questing without all the pain and the agony, but like I can now finally like rest, and because I have the quote formula, right? He's got the formula that works for him, and then he can be content. Which makes it hard because it's really like everybody that's read it, they're like, Oh, so he's gonna go eventually like what are we doing now with him? Oh my god, I don't I don't know, like wait out of that because I I even wrote another character because the idea was that if I did write a series with him, he would have a sidekick.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

And you know, that would have been what the little halfling that he picked up, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

The little gnome or halfling. See, I don't even wonder if what what race, I just remember I made it a short race.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Uh you know, you might not have said.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

You may not have said. I just in my mind it went to halfling. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

It sh it it could be. I know the person I wrote it off of, so I'm I'm 6'4, right? So I'm a big dude compared to most of my friends, and the guy that I kind of mimic it's after, he's like five, five-one. And so he's like, Did you make me a short character? And I was like, I did, like I did. And he's like, Why? And I'm I sent him a picture of us, and I'm like, here's my height, here's him. I'm like, dude, I'm a foot and a half taller than you. Like, it's just what it is. And he's like, Well, just don't toss me. Whatever you do, any of the other stories, just don't toss me. And I'm like, all right, cool. No promise.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

And you helped to that. You didn't toss him. No, he never got tossed.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Other stories will be made at some point, I guess, where I toss him.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

I would read a novel I would read a novella of of Eldrin's past experiences. I think that would be interesting.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

I've heard that. I've heard that from a couple of people where they want they want those kind of quests and kind of side stories, and I'm like just like a short, like a short little novella, you know, hundred, hundred and twenty pages. Yeah, that seems doable. I don't want to do anything.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

No, no, not a whole not a whole big thing. Like a little, you know, because you do start, you do get into those kind of cutscenes where he goes back into the past um when he's dreaming or when he is uh on the verge of a panic attack.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

And I think it would be interesting to kind of see that expanded upon. Um but yeah, just you know, just like a short little just a tiny little bit.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Yeah, I'm gonna have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

There's there's a couple-page novella.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

I think I think the the story about the golem that kind of destroys his adventuring party, that was kind of fleshed out in those early chapters. Like I wrote a very extensive to the point where I was like, this looks like a whole nother book. And you know, going through it and then trying to take trying to take like snippets of it to be like a flashback. And I remember my editor, she's like, let's just cut the whole thing. And I'm like, no, no, no, don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

I don't want to cut the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

I was like, we'll do little snippets.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

That would make a good novella. And you could even read, like, you could even and obviously there would be overlap with what's in the book already. Um, so it's not like you'd have to create a whole new story. Just use what's already use what's already there.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

So smart guess.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Just a little, you know, short 120 pages would be would be fun. I would read it. When their quest is over. Alara Katharek?

SPEAKER_01 27:42

Kraythak.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Krayth. Uh he is an is an orc, right? Okay, so he's an orc that they end up picking up in the first town that they stop in on their way to uh uh learn everything they can about the ley lines. And we find out a lot about him over the course of their adventure. Uh some of it makes Alara angry. Some of it Eldrin is like, listen, he's trying to do better. So he's coming along. He ends up getting accepted back by the other orcs, and Alara decides that she's gonna go back home. Do you ever think about what happened to them when they went back home?

Alara’s Impact And Real-Life Roots

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Yeah, so in some of the earlier drafts, I kind of had like almost like letters written back to Eldrin telling him what was kind of going on. And so, you know, for the orc, it was kind of going back in and doing his doing his thing, being part of, you know, that tribe again and kind of kind of going back into the same role he was. Whereas like Alara went back um and just kind of started a whole new life, and then going from there, it just kind of got to the point where a lot of that got cut because it came to the point where it was like, well, whose journey are we are we like tracking here? And that was part of like the writing because during one of my re-re-edits and rewrite period, I had to learn what kind of POV I wanted to use. And in that, you know, some of the great editing advice I got was like, you're doing too much head hopping. You're going back to you know what this character is doing or what this character like focus on Eldrin and really lean into that. Because if you go too far into the other people, then you open a whole new, you know, slew of issues, problems, and things that you're gonna have to, you know, answer at the end. So it kind of stopped that early development of like what they would be doing afterwards, because in my mind at some point I was like, well, if I do do a series, like I would want them to kind of get all back together and kind of all come together.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

I like that you put pictures in the book, um, kind of sporadically, and then a few pages at the end of different things that were going on. I liked that a lot. I think it would have been neat to have one letter from each of the two characters, just kind of back there at the end, where near where the pictures were. Would have been would have been nice.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

I might I might make note of that. Because there are some pictures that didn't make it into the book. For whatever reason, Amazon wouldn't print them. So, like, there's all the books that Eldrin picks up along his journey. I extensively designed those with the Illustrator, and they were at one point fleshed out, but like Amazon for whatever reason won't print them. I think a hardcover that we're working on, like it looks like they're in the manuscript now, and they're more fleshed out, but yeah, at one point, every book that I wrote in the story was it had its own character, and it was really like uh because the first book is um kind of like the cookbook alchemy book that he gets at the end, and like I think I spent an afternoon really like creating that, and I told the illustrator, I'm like, okay, look, the book is made out of like tree bark, and she's like, Oh, okay, and I'm like, and you know, instead of like having sap and stuff, it's like a very bright gold amber color, and she's like, Okay, great. So this is a big focal point of the of the story, and I'm like, No, like it's very, it's very like very early on, and then it's kind of you know, it's because at that point, like with that book, he gives, you know, Eldrin gives it to his wife, and she's like a kind of like a herbalist, alchemist, cook, and that was kind of showing because I buy a lot of cookbooks for my wife because eating was healing for a lot of years until I packed on the pounds. Um but you know, that's like that comfort food. And so like I started putting a lot of care into all those books, and I kind of wanted to have all that kind of stuff. But I remember the illustrator, she was like, So do these books just come and go? And I'm like, Yeah, and she's like, Oh, so which book's important? I'm like, I don't know, I haven't figured that out yet. Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

All of them.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

I was like, I was like, all of them, none of them, I don't know. Maybe the one I'm writing, we don't know. She's like, okay, so you're making it up. I'm like, yeah, it's all made up. I don't know what I'm doing. It's like, whose line is it anyway? Exactly. It just we just we make up the points and the rules as we go.

The Cleric As Therapist And RuneTech

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Yeah, and so that cookbook that he finds, you actually have a couple of the recipes from that in the book. Are those actual? I mean, obviously, we can't get those ingredients here because they're magical ingredients, but is there a real-world equivalent to those ingredients and are those actual recipes that can be made?

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Yeah. So I believe it's the pumpkin bars, is the first one. Um, my wife makes those every fall, and they are delicious. They are not nutritious, though. Um, but she my wife does a lot of cooking. Um and if I'm ever like, hey, I want to try this, or she'll do that on a Saturday afternoon. Like she'll turn on the music, she'll go in there, she'll make stuff all the time, all the time. It doesn't matter what it is, like how ridiculous it is, she'll make it. And a lot of what she makes, it's so good. Like I'm trying to think of the other recipes because I think there's one for porridge, and there's some kind of like some muffin things in there too. But yeah, it's all of its real recipes that she makes. And you know, sometimes like she'll have a recipe and she'll tweak it, she'll get feedback from me and then retweak it again. And so it's like I go through like seven iterations of a banana nut muffin before we get to what the what the one that we like. And yeah, they're absolutely like all those recipes that are in there, like they've I've cranked them up with fantasy. So I think there's one in there, it's like moon hen eggs or something, like raining ass shit. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, that sounds like fantasy, you know. Yeah. Because at the very beginning, it was it was supposed to be a very cozy book, and so that's why I leaned into that kind of stuff. And then as it got on, I was like, I don't I don't know what this is anymore, but you know, now it's cozy.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

What do you think the hardest part of writing your first book was?

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Kind of knowing what I'm doing. I'm such a perfectionist, so like, you know, because we've been ingrained, like when we were because we're about the same age, so like growing up, there was a strict way of how to write.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

And there were rules.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

And you know, as I've read more and more as an adult, there are not rules. People write any way they want. And you know, I've seen people that write in that traditional way, and I've seen people that write in untraditional ways, and to me, it's you know, it's enjoyable either way, but I think a lot of it was getting out of my head that there was a particular way to do it, which I still struggle with, but I think just getting it out on paper. There were nights that I would just write. Like I would be, I I couldn't sleep, I was depressed, and I would write, and my wife would get up the next morning, she's like, How did it go? And I'm like, I got five chapters, and she's like, Oh, okay, cool. And I'm like, I don't know if it's cool or not. Just keep on writing, you know, and I would do that every night. You know, everybody would go to bed, I'd get up, didn't know what I was doing, and I would ask people for like feedback or whatever, and of course, everybody gave generic feedback. I'll be like, Oh, just write. Okay, that's what editors are for, they'll fix it in the post. And it's like, well, yes and no, you know, a lot of it's still just like therapy, it's on you to do. But I think it's just understanding for me, and it one thing that I'm still trying to learn is flow and pacing, which nobody has been able to give me an answer on at all. Like, they're like, Oh, I think they're like, I think your flow could be improved upon, and maybe you're pacing. I'm like, okay, cool, how do I do that? And they're like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Right, like in what ways?

Healing, Validation, And Family

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Yeah, I'm like, okay, corrective criticism, tell me how to fix it. I don't know. Okay, well, that doesn't help. But it's I think that's one of the things where even now as I read, I'll sit here and I'll have a notebook off to the side and I'll read, like, okay, chapter one did this, chapter two, this author did this. And then I go back and I look, and I'm like, okay, there's no, there's no flow. Like, there's yeah, there's story flows, and there's nothing wrong with it. But then you put another book that's probably in the same genre, or maybe a knockoff, and it's like, okay, there's flows a different way, and the pace is either quicker or slower. It's like there's no right or wrong answer. So I think really for me, it's just getting out of my own head and just just writing it and then getting better, just figuring out what my craft is.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

And just you'll, I guess, just keep writing.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

I know. I was about to say, I I wanted to kick myself, I'm like, just keep writing. Keep writing. Like Dory, just keep on swimming. Just swimming, go figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

So you mentioned you're doing a hardback of Arcane Tides. When's that gonna be? Do you have a date for that yet?

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Or so I have the proof. It's supposed to be delivered today. So a lot of like my mental illness, it sucks. My anxiety, my depression, it kind of hindered me to just okay, just figure out how to do how to get the first one paperback done, how to figure that out, and then go on to the next one. Right. And then in the last couple of weeks of like getting out of that pit, I was like, okay, now we're gonna figure this out, we're gonna figure out how to do canvas, we're gonna figure out how to do this. And I tried to fumble through it and couldn't really figure it out. I couldn't line up everything, and so finally I was like, I told the the lady that helped me with the first one, I was like, Okay, look, I don't care, just tell me what you'll charge, help me out, help me fix it. And because everybody was really bugging me about the hardcover, and I'm like, man, I can barely get my shit together to figure out the paperback. Like, just give me a second. But um but like we we were working on it the other day, and she was like, Look, we're gonna, I'm gonna send this through, request a proof, and we'll see how it looks. I was like, okay, so of course, using the printers through Amazon, they are usually pretty quick on turnarounds. I think this one has been about a week and a half trying to get a proof in, so it's been a little bit. But based on how it looks today, when I look at it, we'll make our adjustments and then roll it out. Like I'll release it. As soon as it becomes available, I'll just release it.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Is it gonna be the same artwork on the cover of the hardcover?

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Yeah, I thought at first about doing something kind of like a special edition or something, but I was like, you know what? I was like, I just need just just to get it done, and I'll worry about that kind of stuff later. Because it's I mean, there's a lot of guys that, you know, a lot of authors that they'll have special editions, they'll have different artwork for paperback to hardcover. And I was like, you know what, I'll just keep it simple, stupid, just copy and paste, we'll figure it out and move on. And then maybe down the road, if I ever do a rewrite or a republication on it, maybe I'll do the different artwork. But I think for me, it's just learning what I need to do because there's not for me, it's been such a hard learning curve that it's just like in a lot of ways, I was like, you know, the very beginning, I just wanted people to like hold my hand. I'm like, help me, help me figure this out. I don't know what I'm doing. And I would get horrible like help, and I'm like, oh, like never mind. Like, I'm just gonna go lay down on the couch and we'll figure this out in two weeks when I maybe feel better. Right. I don't know. It's it's one of the things now, even with trying to get artwork for an audible book or audiobook, like I have to retailer that image because now I don't have an image that fits, so it's like like trying to work that out and try to compress the files to get that too.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Because those have to be square, don't they? They have to be more of a square.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Yeah, there's a image, I think it's like a thousand by thousand, I think, or whatever it is. Um, and of course, the images that I I have for everything is so much bigger, so I'm gonna have to like figure that out, get a file. I I don't know, all the technical stuff. I used to be able to do that kind of stuff when I was like 18, 19.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

So you uh said that people have been asking you what's next. What's next?

SPEAKER_01 40:30

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

No, um it's a valid answer.

Sidekick, Past Quests, And Novella Ideas

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Yeah, it's there's a couple, so there's four or five stories like I have started writing on, just kind of seeing what I want to do. I mean, they go from all over to deals with demons and wishes and figuring out what you want to be in life, kind of thing, to kind of like a mentor wizarding story. The I've got the dungeon baddie leaving the dungeon to become something else in the world, and then what I started writing on this weekend is kind of more probably what I'll go with, but it's more of a camaraderie story of like you know, friendship, found family, really leaning on those people and like the support you get from the people that matter, kind of like we were talking about earlier, and that kind of seems to be the story that I'm kind of more developing. So it's follows the main character who once again can't do what he used to, so he goes home to kind of like reclass and kind of find a new a new um lot in life, and is kind of surprised by the people that step up for him, so in that way, and I think I think with that story, and I'm kind of still hinging on how to do it, because a lot of it, I think all the characters for the most part will be dwarfs, and there will be one character that is isn't, which is deliberately done for the individual that it's kind of for. Um, but I think that's kind of what it is. It's like everybody's kind of that cookie cutter type, you know, brother in arms, and then you know, you have somebody that's completely out the realm that's completely different. But I think I think that's kind of where it's going. I don't know. I writing that first book, I think it was so therapeutic to where it's like now, it's like, oh, do I want to write more? I do, I mean, I write all the time, but at the same time, it's like, well, what what am I gonna put out there next? Um, but I guess kind of pulled the trigger. So much of my anxiety and depression hinters on me to where I haven't pulled the trigger on getting artwork, even though there is an artist that has been chopping at the bit to do stuff for me. And I'm just like, dude, I I don't know. I gotta figure out what I'm doing in life. You know, he's like, well, he's like, I'm I'm you know, eager to do something again for you. And I'm he's like, you know, he's like, I know you want me to do like he's like, I'll do character art for you, I'll do this, I'll do that. I'm like, I know, I just gotta make a decision on what I'm writing. Yeah. Because there was there for a time in talking with Rec, I was writing, you know, a minister, a minotaur story, and I got probably 14, 15 chapters deep into it. And Rec would always be like, okay, so what's next? And I'm like, I need that they're like, I need the next chapter. And I'm like, eh, I don't know. Like, I'm taking a break. And he's like, What do you mean you're taking a break? I'm like, I need a break. I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. Or like, it's really good. I'm like, yeah, I don't know. And then I just fold up shop and I just go to the next thing, and he's you know, he's like, What are you doing, man? Like, like you had me, and I'm like, I don't know, I don't know what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

There's nothing that says that you won't wake up one day and be like, you know what? I feel like writing some more of that story.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

That's kind of where I'm at. I mean, that's how I was this weekend with that one, with the you know, it's just like I started writing and I got so into the character development and more of a planning aspect to where I was like, okay, this this is great. I've created a town, I've created the background, the scene that the The landscape. Okay, great. This is awesome. And then I emotionally like went to the bedroom and told my wife, I said, Hey, this is what we're doing. This is what I got. And she's a great, go write it. And I go, Oh no, I've written in my head. I don't have to do it now. No, I've I've scratched that bug. I'm good.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

Yeah, I'm good. I wrote it.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

I wrote it in my head. That's all I needed.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Yeah, that's all I needed. And who cares if anybody else ever reads it? I don't care.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

That's funny. Uh, are we gonna see you at any events this year?

SPEAKER_01 44:34

So I'll be at Jordan Con.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Me and me and Rec are gonna traverse that together. Um, so we'll be coming down together. Um, and I'll be at LitRPG Con again. Um nice. Had fun. I had a lot of fun last year at the tail end of it. It was a nice little vacation for my wife. She I almost wasn't gonna go last year. I got a I had a whole bunch of anxiety and really got caught up and just not wanting to socialize. And so she went with me and we kind of had a whole vacation out of it. And then that's where I met, you know, Tim McGowan.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Hung out with Rec, hung out with quite a few writers. TJ hung out with him for a little bit, Jay Krause, kind of getting getting to know everybody um at the tail end. And that's the only part that sucked. It was like, oh, I'm starting to be social now.

SPEAKER_00 45:25

And now it's over.

Art, Photos, And Cookbook Lore

SPEAKER_01 45:26

But it was, it was, I think that first day, like going into the um oh, the sales hall, I forget what they called it, but like we went in there and it got crowded very quickly. And people were in my bubble that did not need to be in my bubble, and I was getting to a point where I was getting irritated because I was like, You okay, come on, stand back, get get a little bit ways from me. Yeah, but I mean there were a lot of really cool people that I got to talk to, and I think, you know, if nothing else, because a lot of people are like, Well, you're gonna write a lit RPG book. I'm like, no, I just want to go hang out again, you know, hanging out with people, um, you know, like Richie and Joel and you know, all those kind of folks. Um, but outside of that, I don't know what else I'll do for the rest of the year. I'm kind of to the point where like I want to go hang out and be social with a couple of you guys, but then at the same time, like it's like, well, have that fun. I'll just fade into the background.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Uh all right. So we'll see you at JordanCon. We'll see you at LittleRPG Con. Who knows if you'll be anywhere else? Maybe some local event will come up and you'll be like, you know what? I'm gonna head out to that for a day.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Yeah, it really depends on what Record me and Rec hang out quite a bit, and it kind of really depends on what they want me, like they'll send me, and I'll be like, okay, we'll go do it. I think it was a couple weeks ago. They're like, hey, do you want to go do this convention? I was like, sure. And I was like, I don't care. I don't even have to look at it, like, we're gonna go hang out in Bud. And they're like, oh no, it's in Iowa, and they're like, we're not driving to Iowa. I was like, I was like, okay, because I thought it was something like maybe in Kansas or you know, Missouri, close to where we're at, and they're like, Iowa, and I'm like, I'm not going to Iowa.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

I uh have asked every question that I have wanted to ask. Is there anything that uh I didn't ask that you wanted to bring up or anything that you wanted people to know?

SPEAKER_01 47:12

No, that that's fine. I usually have you know verbal diarrhea of the mouth where I can't shut up sometimes, but I think a lot of times it's just you know that awkwardness of where you're just trying to fill time. But it's it is kind of too weird too, because like in doing this being my first interview, right? And like people asking you questions, like nobody asks questions about yourself, you know? And so it's like, you know, people are like, Well, what do you want to say? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

Yeah, like you know, I always I I told Rec this because I I have an interview with Rec this week as well. Like, I'm an open book, you can ask me anything, and they're like, Are you sure? I'm like, Yeah, I don't care. Like the worst I can tell you is like I'm not gonna answer that. Like, oh we'll we'll skip over that, you know. Yeah, you see me doing this kind of weird head nod, like we'll I was like, it's few and far between. Um because it wasn't until here recently where I put those kind of gates up to where I wouldn't answer questions. Yeah, I think that's I think it's a lot of being misunderstood. I think now I'm kind of getting that angry state of where it's like, okay, I don't care if people misunderstand me. Like, fine, we'll just we'll figure it out at the end. And they want to know something, they can ask. I am I'm not hard to reach. I mean, I got a pretty unique last name. I'm not hard to find on social media.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

Unique enough that a lot of people get it wrong.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Why?

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Uh if you had one stat or ability as your main stat or ability, what would it be? And this can just be like basic like DD style stats or abilities.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

Yeah, I always I always lean more towards like intelligence or wisdom with that kind of stuff. Just because I even even in our DD group, I am a hoarder of books and more. Like we just did a campaign where I literally hoarded every book we came across in this library, and it was like, you know, you know, a lot of people would always say knowledge is power. I love learning about new things. I like even if you know they used to have that show of like how it's made, right?

SPEAKER_00 49:16

And I was like, I love that show. That show is so good.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Just because I wanted to know how to do everything, and I think even with like lit RPG, like learning how the progression of everybody's you know skills are and stuff, like anything knowledge base, I'm all on board just because it's just one of those things where it's like you know, you can never not learn. I mean, you're always learning, even even now as you get older, like you're learning all all the time. Anytime I turn on a computer, I see pop-pop trying to figure out it, you know, technology. So we're always learning, we're always learning. Yeah, but I think that's what it I think that's probably what I'd lean to. Um, not that I think I'm smart, I just think it's one of those things where it's like I love picking up a book and learning about random stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

I like it. And that's a good one. That's a good one to pick and a good reason why. How it's made is a great show. All right, where can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Social media, just type in Krautlogger, you'll find me. There's not there's not very many of us. I I have a Discord, I'm I haven't been active on it very much. I'm on Facebook, Instagram, I'm on TikTok. Um, but I think a lot of times, like I right now I'm in a state where I have to kind of pull back from social media, so I'm not posting as much. I did get really into TikTok there for a while, and I grabbed a ton of followers at first.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

You did good TikTok. You you make good TikToks, good talks.

Real Recipes And Cozy Elements

SPEAKER_01 50:48

I tr I try until they redid the damn platform during the last couple weeks. It messed up. I I love messing with the music and the voiceovers, and they kind of messed with a lot of that, but I don't know. Sometimes for me, and it's not that I don't care about anybody out there like supporting their platforms or supporting their content. Sometimes I just have to disengage and kind of go off into my own little world and watch movies or listen to books or whatever, or read or something. Um, but yeah, I'm I'm not hard to find on social media. Um type in the last name, you'll find me. I think a couple of people have found me on LinkedIn, which kind of threw me off because I was like, I was like, I didn't know you people were on LinkedIn. I thought y'all stayed on the other kind of apps, but it's it's kind of always funny to find narrators finding me on that. So that's kind of neat.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Yeah, it's weird to see the book world people show up on more of like a business style platform like LinkedIn. I don't know, it's just weird. I've seen a couple and it caught me off guard.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Yeah, because I don't I don't think I've looked up anybody and then you know I get a couple of people and I'm like, let me look at this. What do you what do you got going on over here? You know, because it's always it's always because it's a business site too, so you see a different side of people and it's like, oh you, mm-mm. That's not how you are. It's like stop odds.

SPEAKER_00 52:11

I know the real you.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

I know the real you, and you like to use four-letter words. Where are those posts at on here?

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Exactly. I'm going to link to your socials in the episode description so people can find them easier. Uh, that way they don't have to worry about trying to hunt you down. Thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

This was fun. We don't we don't talk very often outside of Discord, so this was kind of neat.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

Um, it's a good time.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

I'm glad I could be your first interview. That's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

Yeah, yeah. Pop that cherry. Now on to the next one.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Now the next one will be easy, it'll be no problem.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

Gotta hope it is because it's these are kind of nerve-wracking. They really are, because it's like trying to find that balance of giving you enough information, but at the same time trying to prove that like my mental health isn't so trash that I forgot what I wrote, which is crazy because like you know, there are some people that remember every detail, and I'm sitting here going, Whoa, I forgot about that. Yeah, I don't remember that.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

Yeah. I I finish a book and I put the book away, and then I forget 90% of what I've read. So it's not that far off from from you.

SPEAKER_01 53:23

Yeah, yeah. I'm the same way. It's like I I I think that's why every year I reread The Hobbit, just to have like it's kind of like getting dementia every year. I'm like, oh, I get to read this again. I don't remember this part.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Yep, I got a few series that I do that with. Not every year, but every so every few years or so I'll reread a series and I'm like, man, this is great. I forgot 90% of what happened in here. I completely forgot about that character. I forgot this happened.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

If I ever get dementia, I'm gonna be in heaven. Like, look at all these books I can read now.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

And now I have the time. I know it's yeah. All right, thank you so much, Lance. Thank you everyone for staying tuned in. Uh, I will link to your socials down below. And for everybody hanging out, just keep leveling up.