Stumbling Up: A Loser's Guide to Progression by Reck Well

A quarter life crisis turns into a dungeon crawl, and somehow the most confident member of the party is a banana slug. We sit down with Reck Well to talk about Stumbling Up: A Loser’s Guide to Progression, a LitRPG progression fantasy that leans into messy friendships, bad decisions, and the slow, awkward reality of leveling up when you’re wildly unqualified for the job.

We get into the story’s hook: three friends sign up as adventurers after a drunken “is this all there is?” night, then get thrown into a brutal trial dungeon where survival feels optional. Reck Well breaks down how Meredeath, an isekai character from our world, changes the party’s dynamic as an accidentally overpowered Death Knight, and why keeping her as a secondary main character creates dramatic irony that both clarifies the world and deepens the mystery. 

Find Reck Well here:

Facebook

Amazon

Transcript

Welcome And New Release Setup

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome everyone to In Other Worlds, the Lit RPG Game Lit and Fantasy Podcast. I am your host, Jess, and today we are here with Reckwell.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Hi everybody. Yeah, I'm doing all right. Yeah, thanks for having me, Jess. Excited to not be on the other side of the microphone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

To not be the one asking all the questions.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Yeah, yeah. It's like refreshing. I don't have to think about. That's right. It's fine. I do it enough to other authors, so it's uh, you know, it's justice.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

There we go. So we're mostly going to focus on your new book, Stumbling Up, A Loser's Guide to Progression, which is coming out on March 13th, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So uh physical and digital, March 13th. We're the audio might be a little bit behind, but we'll it'll be just a couple days. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

I mean, that's usually pretty typical though.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Yeah. Yeah. The ACX is yeah, it just takes a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Yeah. So you usually do cozy fantasy, and this was your first foray into Lit RPG, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Yeah, so I actually um I've got a couple books out. I've got another pen name that I write sci-fi under. Um, but Reckwell, I've got cozy fantasy with it. Um, Potions and Perils, which I did a couple years ago. Um, it's a lot of fun. It was I Legends and Lattes was out, and I was like, I can do a cozy, like I could do cozy fantasy. Like I, you know, it was just inspired, it was inspiring.

Premise And The Trial Dungeon

SPEAKER_01 1:34

So give us a rundown on Stumbling Up.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Stumbling Up is about these three friends who have their like quarter life crisis. The the last friend is turning 25 and they get really drunk and they're like, is this all there is to life? So they go and sign up to be adventurers. And the adventure, right, is kind of it's kind of like joining the military where you're just like, you know, you're an adventurer, and um, they get thrust into a trial dungeon, which they're very woefully unprepared for. And the only thing that really is on their side is they've got an issachide goth lady from our world named Meredith, who um the system when she got issachide in kind of look took a look at her aesthetic and was like, hmm, we'll make you a death knight. So she's a little OP. And they have a little bit. Just a little bit. And they have uh Richard, who is this uh fanged banana slug that claims to be immortal that is uh Cole's Cole's animal companion. And um Richard is kind of like, I don't know, snark and wisdom sometimes, and every once in a while just like a little bit of slime to help. So yeah, yeah. Richard kind of steals the show pretty quick. But um, but yeah, so they they become adventurers and they start start down that route and have to figure out like what they're doing, is it worth it? Can their friendship survive? There's there's a lot that's going on.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

In the beginning of the book, they had they had to go to the trial dungeon, like you said. I'm gonna try and I want to try and keep this as spoiler light as possible. Yeah, we'll try. It's very difficult. Um, Jared joked that I should call my show spoiler sessions because it's so hard to keep the spoilers out. Um, I just don't do the deep dives like he does. Yeah. So when they go to the dungeon, their trial dungeon, it is they get portled into a giant mouth. Is it all are all the trial dungeons the same? Is this just like one big giant behemoth that for some horrible reason is just constantly punished with adventures?

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Yeah, indigestion. Yeah. No, the the trial dungeons are all different. Um, there's actually so I mean one of the advantages to reading on Royal Road is there's um bonus chapters that are from other perspectives. And there's a bonus chapter that talks about how when they first portled into the trial dungeon, it was it, it takes a little bit of like what Cole's thinking about and creates the trial dungeon. And so it create created like Cole's anxiety, made a trial dungeon that they were not gonna survive. So Richard uses some of his powers to have the system try again. So then the second time it also dumped them into a dungeon that they weren't gonna so like Richard like had to use his like immortalish powers to get them to a dungeon that he thought that they could actually survive, which just happened to be you know working their way through the digestive track of the Leviathan, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:43

And they barely survived that.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Yeah, and I mean yeah, yeah. Well, and that's the whole thing is they they really like they have most people in the world when they become adventurers, they're they've trained for it for years, they've already got skills and backing and equipment and all the rest of it. And there's no real reason that these folks should survive. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

I mean, they're all like Cole has some skills. Tandy is the most proficient out of all of them. The third companion that his name is escaping me.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Leo, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Yeah, Leo, not his biggest fan. Leo just has nothing. He's just poor guy.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

He's he's a lumberjack, so he can swing an axe and he's got he's pretty. He's strong. He's the himbo of the group, right?

Why An Immortal Banana Slug

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Yeah, he is the himbo. So Cole has a companion. I think he's the only one in the group when the group starts and they go into the dungeon who has a companion, and it's a banana slug.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

What made you choose a banana slug and how much research on banana slugs did you have to do?

SPEAKER_00 5:43

I had a friend and I that were talking about like animal companions, and we were like, we were like, I was at Dragon Con like two years ago, and uh we were sitting there at the bar and we're like, what would be the most useless companion you could think of, you know? And we went down this route of like a slug, right? Like just a slug that, you know, how useful could a slug be? And I used to live out in the Pacific Northwest, like 10 years of my life, I was out there, and um banana slugs are like I was far enough north that they weren't like super common. They were kind of like the mythical creature that you heard about, but like you didn't see too often, but they're so distinctive, right? And so, you know, we went with banana slugs, but then we had this whole thing about like it's it's we'll name him Richard, and it's a dick joke because he's like a foot long or claims to be. And like it just, it's just yeah, right. And he's a slug and you know, slime, like I mean, it's just like the jokes write themselves, right? Um, yeah, and I I have done a fair amount of research on slugs, like you know, it's like can slugs breathe underwater? Like if you lick a banana, like banana slug slime actually has some numbing qualities.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Really?

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah, you know, um banana slugs, uh the spots on their back are various patterns. Some have a lot more, some don't. It's an adaptive, like camouflage thing, right? Like, I mean, all this stuff that you kind of pull out that you know makes the story a little bit better.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Um Richard claims, he claims, right, that he is an immortal banana slug. We don't know why. Uh it wouldn't surprise me if he just claimed it because he's Richard.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Yeah. Yeah, he claims he says he claims to be an immortal because he hasn't died yet, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:31

I mean that kind of makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Um, Richard finds him after his night of drunken partying uh in a trash can of all places at the pub that he works at. And this is at the beginning of the book, so this is like chapter one, you guys. Why was he in the trash can? Did did he know that Cole was gonna be there? Did he pick Cole? I know later on in the book you kind of find out something that makes Cole angry.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

So I'm assuming he picked Cole.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Um yeah, let's see. Spoilers, right? Uh so he he does pick Cole. Um, again, there's some bonus chapters that get into this a little bit, which I'll probab I'm like about to stub off railroads. I'm probably gonna put the bonus chapters up on like my website, but there's there's a little bit of serendipity of it. You know, whether Richard's immortal or not is kind of an unknown, but he is very long-lived and he's been around for a while. Serendipity kind of put him in Cole's path, but like there's like between Cole, Tandy, and Leo, there's there's things afoot. Like there's there's a little bit of this like chosen one element. Um, but I think that Richard isn't necessarily sure he's chosen the right one or that like the chosen one is in this group. He it's just you know, slug instincts, I guess. Um he's gonna he's willing to hang around and find out and uh maybe taunt them into being successful. Or push them.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

He doesn't necessarily have to talk them into it. He can push them.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

I mean, and he is very long-lived. I mean, they talk about in the book, they meet some characters uh throughout the course of the story that are very old. And Richard knows them personally. He does, has a long history with them. Maybe intimately was he always a slug then?

SPEAKER_00 9:30

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Oh man, nah, that's that I don't need that picture in my brain. I don't need that picture in my brain.

Immortality Themes And Long Games

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yeah, yeah. One of the themes of the series is um you you end up running into these, this cast of these sort of immortal, certainly long-lived, um different creatures. And um what you know, part of it, what of it it's exploring is like immortal immortality, like the different ways that different people have maybe kind of stumbled upon it. Is is that worth it? Have they have they kept their humanity? How do they find meaning in life? Or, you know, like all these different questions and in the arc of the series that has like meaning for the next the next heroes that are coming along and and the choices that they're gonna make about their lives and where they're going and you know the price of power is is part of this, right? So um it all it all kind of plays into it. Um it's not all realized in book one because it is kind of this more like meta arc for the whole series, but um, yeah, you're you're gonna keep running into the revosses and the the Richards and you meet another slug rafe in book two, and you know, like there's these there's these immortals that um have been around that are kind of the guardians of the world and they're not all friendly, you know, and they all weirdly seem to know Richards.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Cole's the only one that we see, at least in the first book, that has a companion. Is that like a common thing? Do a lot of people have companions, or is that just less common?

SPEAKER_00 11:09

You know, I honestly haven't thought about that. Um Meredith picks up a companion in book two. Um, so we get to see that kind of play out in a different way. Um, she's got like Death Knight power, so it's maybe more minion, permanent minion. I don't know, companion-y sort of you know, aspect to it. But yeah, I don't know. Maybe I should throw in some more adventurers with companions. He does seem to be, I mean, he's certainly a unique companion. He's not the dire wolf that uh that Cole wanted, right? I actually like totally punched that a little bit in book two because you do meet a hero with a dire wolf.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Just a rubbit and Cole's face.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Just a rubbit and Cole's face. Like he's like, son of a you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Is he is the so is the direwolf in book two like a very nice, well-behaved, like good companion to Richard's like snarky, I'm gonna do what I want.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

No, it's it's very much like a good boy, like, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

That's fantastic. I love that. And so with with the Cole Richard dynamic that you find out later in book one, I'm assuming that typical companions, it's not that way.

Writing Process And Character Control

SPEAKER_00 12:23

The person the correct, yes, there's there's a unique thing that makes the Cole Richard combo just extra snarky, but like just wholly different than most of the other companions that you have going on, right? Um, but there's there's a power balance problem between the two of them. You know, it's funny because we when you're panting and you're writing in roll road, and you're just um I had these arcs in mind, and I was just writing and I was writing and I was writing, and I got through, you know, the trial dungeon, and you know, um, they're kind of going on, and I got to this point where I was like, oh, I had this storyline that I was planning, and if I don't do it soon, like it's I like I don't know if I can make it happen and not have this relationship destroyed between the two of them. And even so, like there there is dire consequences for this reveal that happens around like chapter 30-ish. And uh, but like I had this moment where I was like, I was just like happily writing, and I was like, huh, I should probably wait a second, like this can't forget, yeah. This needs to come out, or else like because you know, as much as you have these plot points planned, right? I think the thing that you know, I've got all these like milestones that I want to hit, but when I get to that milestone, I've created these characters that are so like real um that I have to sit there and be like, okay, I want this to happen, but like what how would they react? And is their reaction what I planned for?

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Like, does that reaction right uh speak to their true yeah like their true internal character?

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Like I've got the end of book two written, and I knew like some things were gonna happen, and I got there and Tandy was just like, no, that we're not doing that. It's like I struggled with the end of book two. I had to like rewrite what I had originally planned because because of Tandy and her kind of stubbornness. I was like, all right.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

That is always so fascinating to me because as a writer, you know, you have a specific story that you want to tell, and obviously you want to try and keep it like within a certain number of chapters or words, or you know, you you don't necessarily want to do a 14 book long series.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

So it's always it's always fun to hear about how uh especially for like panters, because you have those people who will like meticulously plot and plan every single thing out. But then you have people like you who are panters and the characters just kind of tell the story, and you have to like wrangle it back in sometimes and be like, okay, but now I really need it and I need to get here.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Yeah, I don't know. I I'm a pantser with milestones. Sometimes you just have to wrangle it. But but you know what's funny is when the when the characters take over and you get the more honest reaction, it's better, it's better fiction, it's better storytelling, right? So like I don't regret that Tandy told me no. It was a pain in the butt at the time. But ultimately, I have a way better ending for book two than I had originally planned. It's just more authentic to her, right? And where her story works going.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Because people can read that and can be like, wait, the character wouldn't do that. Yeah, that's not on par for that personality.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Yeah. I think sometimes authors I've read books where the, you know, like the murder hobo, like they they're just like murder machines or whatever, and they don't have a ton of personality outside of like progress, you know. And those characters they don't have the moral dilemmas when they get to the, you know, the end of the dungeon or whatever, they just like kill the boss or do the do the yeah, right, you know, and um like it's not that there's not moments where I want to read something like that, but like that's not what my book is. Like if you're looking for just murder hoboing, that's not that's not what stumbling up is. You know, it's it's people trying to figure out how the world works and handle difficulties in friendship and like what they're doing and how they're doing it, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:35

So yeah, how to handle a crazy situation that they have undeniably put themselves in.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Like they can't blame somebody else, but like they are way in over their head, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

It's that whole thing of like, I really hate my life. I want to do something. Like, do you do you really? Like, here you go.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Of all the things you're gonna do, you're gonna sign up to be an adventurer. I mean, there you would think that there would be rules against letting people drunkenly sign up.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

You know, I mean, I have seen uh recruiters from a variety of different organizations just not care because they've got quotas or whatever and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

I guess that makes sense then.

unknown 17:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

I mean, after they sign up, whether they live or die, that's on them. That's not on the adventurer field. So you've got, you know, the the normal people uh that are in the the group at first, and then when they get to the dungeon, they are told that another person is gonna be added to their group, Meredith, which is a fantastic name.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Yeah, I think that that name just like came. That just came from nowhere, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

You pick up you pick up the clues pr pretty quickly because she mentions Kansas. Uh that she has been Esekai there. What made you decide to because she's she is a main character, but I wouldn't really consider her the main character. Like a big main character because it's the three of them to begin with. What made you decide to put an isekide character or characters in the book as kind of secondary main characters?

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Right, yeah. You know, obviously the issachide characters normally are main characters, and um we can do a lot with that because you can put all like the Earth's idioms and like understanding, you can like introduce people to the world through this person from our world, right? Um, but I thought it would be more fun um to play with like Meredith is this like she's like the um April from Parks and Wreck, right? Like, like she's she's here, but she's not too happy about it. But then she kind of secretly loves it, but like not really, but you know, and I really like uh to play around with uh the reader's interpretation of what's happening and Cole, our main character's understanding what's happening. And Meredith is a perfect vehicle for that, right? Because there's things that happen that you as the reader are like, ah, right, because like we're from Meredith's world and Meredith gets it. Um, but Cole is just just naive country bumpkin that just doesn't he just doesn't always get it. And um, and it's and it's the same kind of with Richard, right? Is he doesn't always get what Richard's saying, and we maybe do, right? But like with Meredith, like we're on we're on the same page as Meredith, right? And it's just it's just a fun perspective to play. When I had originally kind of thought of the series, I'm a big fan of The Wandering Inn. And for those who've gotten through the first couple books, there's this moment where there's these two Issachide, well, there's these two portaled, I don't know if I guess Issachide covers portal. There's two portal characters, Ryoka and um Eren, and you just like dying for them to meet for like like a whole book, you're like, you know, they're both uh portaled in, and they have not met a single other portal person, and you're just like, just make them meet, and that tension is just glorious.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

And um I had toy hate each other at first, or Ryoka hates Aaron, yeah, right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

And and I just I kind of wanted to play around with this like does the the main character to understand that Meredith Isekai? And I and I ended up not really going that route, like she reveals her issification, is that a word? Fairly quick, but yeah, that's what I at the time that's what I was thinking of playing around with a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

And does she I don't remember if she actually tells them uh in the book that she's been isekide or if she just tells them like I'm just from really far away.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

So there's still a mystery around like how she got there, like why, which is part of the trauma and stuff that gets revealed. Um, there's another isekide character that we meet, and um And even then I was like, please have them meet, please Yes, yes, which was uh totally intentional. Yeah. That's actually in book two, you get some of the um trauma in the real world that they have experienced in their lives that kind of maybe lead to their russification, but we we don't have that reveal yet, so just plan that out a little bit longer. Yeah. Each book is is supposed to be centered around a character. Like book one is really about Richard and Cole and their relationship. Book two is more Tandy's some of Tandy's main arc. Book three is actually more about Leo. It's all from Cole's perspective, but each book kind of has a a character storyline that we're progressing in in. Meaningful ways. We'll have our Meredith book in our I'm excited.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

I I really liked Meredith. I let I think Meredith and Tandy were probably my two favorite characters. Tandy was just so she's just like, I don't think we're gonna make Tandy's the pragmatic realist, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:17

She she's put together uh it's so funny because book two is about her and I split the party about 10 chapters in and get rid of Tandy for a little bit. I was like, what I'm like typing it, I'm like, what am I doing? But yeah, it's it's exciting. Um she has a lot of potential, right? And um, yeah, I'm excited to see her story arc come to fruition.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

I mean, it's especially because her family has that insider knowledge of like how you can progress and gain skills faster, which she begrudgingly eventually shares kind of with the other party until Richard is just like, oh, it's not like they take that real seriously.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, there's always this thing about like power and there's this trade-off with power, right? You have trade-offs to get power, and then once you have power, you've got constraints in different ways on you. And there's there's you know, power always has a price, and Tandy you see that in Tandy's life, how it affects our friendships and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

So that organization that uh they kind of had to be wary of, do they play another do they come back, or was that just like a no, they're gonna come back.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

They're gonna be uh there's gonna be a whole book that's kind of dealing with them. Yeah. So the null rights. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

I like it.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Yeah, it's kind of the underworld mafia group in the world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Yeah, they're like an underground secret organization that you don't want to make angry.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Yep, but they're the kingmakers, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Meredith, when they finished their when they finished their trial dungeon, they found out that Meredith had to go on a quest to find like a patron to receive her class. Did Cole kind of had to do the same thing, but he had like a built-in patron. Go figure. Is that something that is normal? Because I know Leo eventually you find out what he does to get his class, what he stupidly does to get his class. That's one of the reasons why I don't like Leo. He just doesn't think. He does not he doesn't ask for opinions or help. He just does things without thinking about them.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

True. We all know people like that though.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

We do, we do. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Yeah. Not everybody needs a sponsor, and it kind of has to do with that potential of uh person. And um, you know, there's different levels, so you can be a mundane, right? Which is just kind of your everyday person. Everybody starts off as a mundane. And when they sign up to be adventurers, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Butchers, cooks. Yeah.

unknown 25:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Pretty much everybody but the adventurers, right? Um, when you sign up to be adventurer and you get that adventurer class, there's the trial period, and then there's different levels of being an adventurer. Um, and then above adventurers hero class. And um, if you have like hero class potential, you you basically need a sponsor. Some people need sponsors, some people don't. There's other ramifications for that. Uh, with like there's factions, and you can earn faction points for your faction or for factions that you're affiliated with.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

And uh which apparently needed to be kept quiet.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's the world is pretty secretive. It's the the rules of the world aren't known to everybody, which I did intentionally because we're not from an isekai person's perspective. I don't really have um this was my mechanism for us getting the world revealed to us because the you know, Cole is getting the world revealed to him and how things really, really work. You know, it also as a writer, it builds tension and it builds mystery. And I and I don't like I'm a big fan of mystery. You know, like not not like let's go find the person that stole from the story, but like having bits of the world and the lore revealed through the narrative instead of just info dumping all of it at once, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

And I think that makes it feel a lot more organic as well when you're reading the book. I think it just flows a lot better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

I mean, that's the that's the hope, right? But you know, you it you it struggles too, because you get people that are like used to info dumping or they they want that like easy, like why, why, why, why aren't you telling us this? Why doesn't Cole know know this? Isn't he is just stupid? And it's like, I don't know. I my experience from life is a lot of just stumbling around trying to figure it out, like, oh, that's how this like works. So yeah. If you haven't figured out I'm the loser, that's writing the guide to progression.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

It's really like an autobiography.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

A little bit, a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

You are whole.

World Rules Sponsors And Secret Factions

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Well, you know, I did want to try to put with this friend group that develops that's been there, that like camaraderie between friends and uh some of the friends I've had along the way and um give everybody that sense of like home, you know, found family home. You know, so yeah, there's I mean, I don't care who what you write, there's always a bit of you that sneaks in there. So yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Yeah. I think that's inevitable. And again kind of towards the beginning of the book we see them they have to fight like this tainted, contaminated corrupted, yeah. Partially mechanical bear.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Yeah, it's on the cover, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

So not many spoilers, but yeah, so how so it is contaminated, and they do talk about how the contamination is kind of spreading. Do you ever explain in the later books like where that contamination is coming from?

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Mm-hmm. Uh yeah, that's so that's the like world-level threat is the contamination. Um and yeah, we get more in depth and it has to do with the mortals and all the rest of it. Um, but the reality is the world, the last age ended in a cataclysm, and they uh this contamination was kind of taking over the world and like corrupting everything. And so the heroes raised what they call the Ursein Wall, and they set up guardians to guard it to keep the contamination on the other side of the continent. So it's like this blocked off, like, and whole cities and metropolises and like that whole land was populated by just normal people, and they pretty much just sacrificed it to save what was left of humanity.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Yeah. So and you know, and that's so like that's the the existential threat is that the barrier that they enacted is leaking and under assault, and which we which is really like that's we should have the like spoiler warnings. Um, but that's like book like book five kind of starts that like more arc in-depth, although we're we're starting to get to it in book three.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Yeah, because they don't really talk about what's on the other side of the Earth Sign Wall. I mean, man, that's that sucks. So like is it is it like a lot of land that just like that's just a part of the world is now just gone? Do they have any hope of reclaiming it?

SPEAKER_00 29:41

It's kind of like on the civilized side of the barrier, you have like dungeons and stuff that are just like pocket dimensions of you know monsters and stuff. On that side, those dungeons are on the outside, right? Like the world is kind of overrun with this like wild, kind of dungeon-y sort of, you know, ambiance. And there's a whole backstory as to like why that's happened and how it's happened, but yeah. Um, I've actually got a a prequel sort of planned that explains that is like a a trilogy that kind of goes through like how the world ended, or like you know, how the last age ended um in the cataclysm that's that would be super interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Yeah. That would be because the the protectors on the earth side wall are aren't they the bears?

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Mm-hmm. So the world is magical, but it's got this mechanical element too, or magic and you know, mechanical kind of combined. The bears are they actually their heart is the uh warning, like the like the tornado siren or the air raid warning, like town bell in these towns that it got corrupted, and that's like part of the the heart of what keeps them, like that's their ethos, is they're supposed to be like warning and guardians for humanity.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

There are a couple of times where I mean at least once. I I think it well, once it was unknown, and the second time it was known, but there are times when he is kind of transported to where the AI is. And the first time you would think that an AI would be all knowing, all seeing but it has no clue.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Uh and I'm only a mat I'm only assuming that's Richard futzing with the course of events of the universe. Because you know, he can't help himself.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Yeah. So the AI, I I so I had a lot of discussion with Jeremy on the narration for the AI because I wanted so the AI is actually a character. I told him I'm like, I told Jeremy, I'm like, there are moments where the AI is just giving you the update. It's like an answering machine. It's like the pre-recorded message because you leveled up, right? Um, and then there's these personal moments where you get like the person on the phone, right? And it's the real, the real AI. And so you should, in the nar narration, that should come across really clearly in the chapters that they're like in the room with the AI, where and it's funny because we also like we have this whole discussion about like what is like what is the voice of the AI? Is it like snarky? Is it like this? And like it's really irritated at Richard. Um, but it's also like tired, it's a tired immortal, right? And um, yeah, so I mean, once the narration comes out, yeah, you you'll get kind of that layer. And and that's the fun thing about actually getting this book made, having a narration, is that you get to play around with some of these other ideas. Like, I don't know if you caught this, but there is a drag queen in the book, which is which is uh I did not where? Yeah, so it's Mistress Dell is a drag queen. Um so she owns the uh Red Eaves district.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Um oh yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Yes. I love which which in the book is really subtle. Which in the book is really subtle.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

It is.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

I didn't pick up on it, but in the narration it's gonna be a little bit more obvious because it's got like she's got like a Trixie Mattel voice.

unknown 33:18

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Trixie Mattel is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Yeah, yeah. Um and it's so that I mean it's a duet narration, right? And so we're like, nope, Jeremy's gonna narrate Mistress Dell, right? So it's like so again, there's layers. Book two, we have a trans character who comes out to Cole and Cole doesn't, it just right over his head. Right over his head, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:41

Typical Cole, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:43

And I mean, I think I think people will read it and it'll go right over their head, you know, because they're just not under, you know, they just don't quite understand um what's going on. But like I like that. I like that you know, there's layers for people who are looking for it. Um the the fun thing about Mistress Dell is that she's literally drag queen story hour layers.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

Oh I love it. So you've got Jeremy Frasier doing uh your I guess the male version, male voices. Who is more masculine voices?

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Yeah, so I've got Jessica Threat is doing the female voices. Yay!

SPEAKER_01 34:19

I did not know that. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Yeah, yeah. She's her talent blows me away. She is just awesome and she has nailed Meredith.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Like Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yes. You're gonna love what she does with Meredith. Yeah.

Contamination Threat And The AI

SPEAKER_01 34:33

I can't wait to hear it. I am honestly, I I typically I don't do audiobooks very often. Uh I used to do them a lot more because I used to have an hour commute and now I don't. So I just I listen to them when I'm doing to like when I'm doing laundry or dishes or cleaning. And so I just don't get through them as fast as I used to. Uh so I have made the move into 99% physical books. I might I'll I'm gonna have to You might at least have to listen to a sample.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Yeah. That's gonna be good. How many books do you think are gonna be in this series? Do you know how you want it to end?

SPEAKER_00 35:10

I do. I've got a planned inning. It's it's gonna be like 10 to 12. So Morpheus is my artist, right, that does the covers. And we have a it we did this cool thing where the spines, when you line them up, are gonna make a picture. And I had to kind of pseudo-commit to a number of books to get that picture done for the first time.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

That's a wild commitment to make.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

It takes a while, it is wild. It is wild. I'm like, I'm gonna write 12 books if they fall on their face. We're gonna have I'm just gonna spend the next two years of my life writing these 12 books. It is it is a little wild. Um, and I think that like if it ends up being like 20 books, I'm sure I could have him, you know, change the right side of the image or whatever. But uh I've got the ending really mapped out and I've got like the first like six books mapped out. It's like the seven through ten, I guess, that need a little bit of thought. Um, but I kind of figure at this point like everything keeps changing. So as I'm gonna write, I'll it'll solidify, you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

I mean, when you're a pantser and you let the characters do their own thing, it's bound to happen that stuff is gonna happen that like you didn't account for that's gonna push the story out. So I mean, this seven through ten may end up being the end of like five and six. You never know. Stumbling up, before I move on, Stumbling Up is out on March 13th.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Yep. Kindle Kindle Unlimited Paperback, um, and it should be audio e either on the 13th or shortly thereafter.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

So I do want to just kind of touch on your cozy fantasy a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Yeah, we can talk about potions and perils, yep.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

Uh, so give us kind of the rundown on potions and perils.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Potion and Potions and Perils is about a a witch who is not terribly good at her job or thinks she's not terribly good at her job, right? She she um is in charge of this little village in a swamp. A mysterious stranger comes in. The the town is really struggling over the winter, and the mysterious stranger comes in and she's got everything that the town needs to survive the winter. Um, she just wants and exchanged a love potion from the witch. And um the witch, I mean, if we think about it, love potions are actually pretty immoral.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Horrible, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Like they're terrible, right? For compulsive love is not special. Yeah. Yeah. And so the witch like really wants the stuff for her village, but she's just like, no, I I am I can't I can't, I'm not gonna do that. And so the merchant like stomps off, and when she's stomping off with her wagons, middle of the winter, there's like a little flash flood, and her wagon overturns and it like poisons the swamp. And so now the two of them have to team up to fix the swamp. It's fun. Um, the stranger is from a very different culture. I'm not gonna give away like why she wanted the love potion or whatever, but like, you know, it's it's this cute little like sapphic love story. Yeah, and I put a lot of like I grew up, I you'll you'll find swamps in a lot of my writing. I grew up in a very swampy area in Michigan. And so like that biome is like near to my heart. I've actually got a tattoo of like cattails and a red-winged blackbird.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

Um wow.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Yeah, so um, so I put a lot of my love of my home in that swamp and and yeah, it's it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

And so that one is a standalone book.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

So it's supposed to be a series. I've actually got book two mostly written. Um I just I was uh working on book two and getting, you know, leading up to a deadline to publish it a couple years ago, and I had a a pretty severe personal tragedy that just completely derailed me.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

So what is next?

SPEAKER_00 38:57

I am I've got book two for Stumbling Up Done, and I'm in edits right now, and that the edits are slow going. I haven't like I I haven't actually finished a like book two or book three, like I haven't done a series yet. So yeah, I'm kind of like like you know, self self-critic. Trying to make sure everything ties together is its own, you know, is its own thing. But um, yeah, so book two should be out before lit RPG kind. So the idea is to like kind of rapidly release book one, two, three, have all three books out this year. Um, I've been kind of sitting on book one for a while. It's the first time I've done audio, so like just understanding like all of the bits and bobs and like you know, trying to get everything lined up, especially with the duet and all the rest of it, is just yeah. But uh yeah, but that's okay because it allows it for rapid release. So yeah, everybody wins.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

So what made you decide to start the book out on Royal Road versus just uh writing it and then publishing it when it's done?

SPEAKER_00 40:01

I so I have another pen name. I've published some science fiction and like Light Gamlet on my my other pen name. I've done Potions and Perils, and as an indie author in general, it's just really hard to get an audience. I've done a lot of like in-person book sales at like Pride events, I've done them at book fairs, I've done them at you know, library events and stuff like that. And I do really well at those, but from a like ad perspective online, it can be difficult when you've got just like one book in a series, like you don't have a series, you've just got one book. It can be really difficult to get a return on investment on ads and stuff. You know, going on forums and talking to people, especially in our genre, the advice I kept getting was that like if you want to gain a fan base, you should go on Roller Road and start on Roller Road. Um and uh that's where not only like a lot of our fans are lurking, but also, you know, uh publishing houses and stuff will you know, if you like like rising stars or you know, you get enough people following you or whatever that like you can kind of get access into that world. I went on Royal Road. It was a rocky start, and I I definitely didn't understand everything when I when I you know went out there. Um I did gain rising stars in white comedy and adventure and dungeon, and I didn't hit main rising stars. Um I didn't really appreciate like the shout-out culture. And a lot of the advice online was maybe for Royal Road. I I'd encountered advice for like Royal Road of like two or three years ago, and it's it's changed a bit since then. Um so I I think I would tackle it a little bit different at this point, but uh that being said, I've got like 550 fan like followers, and I've got people that are absolutely like reading every chapter I put out and commenting on it. And like I I think that in the pursuit of a fan base, I got it. Like I've got the I've got the fan mates that I was hoping for. And they're really it's really motivating when you post something and people are like, oh, they're like, is Richard immortal? You know, like and you're like, I don't know, is it is he? I'll let you know when I find out.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

You're gonna have to wait and find out.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Right. There's an element of the serial format that's just so satisfying and motivating as a writer. Um and so yeah, I mean, you get you get that, you get that there, and you get the fan base, and you know, that's that's invaluable. So, you know, I've also heard that uh this is my first Royal Road book, and the you know, I'm putting on an Amazon. Sometimes those fan that fan base, like it the the Royal Road fan base doesn't necessarily translate to Amazon sales necessarily. Because they've already read it, so which I which I totally get, you know. Um, but I think that from a motivation perspective and you know, practice pitching the book and like working on some of that stuff before you get to the Amazon publishing, Royal Road's been pretty invaluable.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Do authors typically only do book one in the series on Royal Road, or I mean I guess some do all of them.

Series Plan Audiobook And Release Strategy

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Yeah, so I'm doing all of mine on Royal Road first, but it uh you know, whenever you read on Royal Road, it's that asterisk of this is kind of like a first draft, right? Um, my book one on Amazon has like 20 to 30,000 extra words in it. Um, there's whole scenes and stuff that just don't exist in the Royal Road version. And it's not just like editing. You know, there's a couple just subplots and stuff. The Royal Road audience, those fans are a separate fan base and they deserve respect too. And so, like, if you just published a book one and then published everything else on Amazon, it you know, it would really piss off the Royal Road folks, right? Because it's kind of disrespectful of like, here's the teaser you don't get anymore. Um, so they're gonna get all of it. Um, what you do have to do is when you you have to be on Kindle Unlimited, and I mean, uh there might be somebody that argues with me, but really For lit RPG, there's so many readers on Kindle Unlimited, you need to be on Kindle Unlimited. But to be on Kindle Unlimited, you have to take it down off Royal Road. It's called stubbing. Um, because you can't have it. Kindle Unlimited is like an exclusive Amazon thing, right? So you can't have it.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

You can't have it listed anywhere else.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

So today's if it's like a rough draft.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Yeah, it it's like you can put 10%, I think, of a book up as like a teaser, but you can't. Yeah, 10% is like even if it's a rough draft, it would, you know, would be hard not to have. Yeah. You'd have it 90% different. When so today's my stubbing day, I'm gonna be taking down book one. Book two will still be up until I get it published. But what that does is I probably won't gain more followers. Or if I do, it'll be people that read book one and they're like, Oh, I want to hear what happens next, and they go over to Royal Road and pick it up, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:52

Those are the readers you want.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

Yeah, right. Like the the ones that are like, Yes. Yeah. So I mean at the end of book one on Amazon, I'll have like, hey, if you want to see what happens next right away, you know, go to Royal Road. Um, but uh yeah, so I'll be taking down book one and just putting up. I think what I'm gonna do, uh, some authors do like the first couple chapters of the book. I think what I'm gonna do is like do a first chapter and then do like a synopsis of book one, or like here it is on Kindle. If you want, here's a synopsis, and then we'll kick you into book two. Um I think that would be good.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Well, plus, because there's so much extra in the published version, I mean I can imagine that would entice people who had read it on Royal Road to swap over and read it on, like download it and read it or buy it and read it.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Maybe like the the super fans or whatever. I how many books do you reread though?

SPEAKER_01 45:48

I have a few.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

Yeah. I have a few too. I have a few. I mean, I would like to hope that people would be like, yes, I want more slug. I would say that if they don't read the Amazon version or they don't listen to the audiobook, like they're not gonna be missing out. It's not like core storyline stuff that I'm messing around with. Um book two, struggling with that a little bit. Like there's a little bit of core storyline stuff that I'm maybe putting in the I don't know. I think what I'll do is I'll probably like back update Royal Road and let people know so they get a chance to read it over there.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

I don't know. We'll see. I'm learning as I'm going.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

I mean, that's what we all do.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Right? We're all just stumbling, hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

We all stumble up. I mean, not always up. Sometimes it's laterally, but progress isn't linear, right? Stumbling everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

I used to teach fencing. Um taught fencing for a long time, like a decade and a half. And I would always have these students who would get really good at a skill or strategy, and then they'd plateau because that strategy might work really well against people at the level that they're at, but they eventually get to the next level and then they plateau. And I always would have like I'd have this conversation with these students over and over again about how they're gonna have to, from a winning perspective, start losing a bit to learn a different strategy, to learn a more dynamic way of doing things because you're not gonna be good at that right away and ultimately you're gonna win. But like in the short term, you're gonna you're gonna lose a bit. And I just like I I think that's it's it was one of the hardest life lessons, right? Is that progress isn't limited.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that probably stands true for a lot of things. Well, was there anything that you wanted to mention that I didn't ask about before I asked my final question?

SPEAKER_00 47:42

It's it's interesting. I took a risk with the ending of book one. There's a reason you're like, I don't like Leo. I struggled with it on Roller Road. I actually lost some people that are like, ah, I got to the end. I'm like, screw this ending. I to my my advice is keep reading. Trust me. Trust me. Keep reading.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

Um I while I didn't like Leo at the end of book one, I still thought it was a good ending.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

I think so too. I think though that sometimes I think sometimes in our genre people want they just want Lenin of progress, right? Yeah. And that's where I that's where I say like I just like have hopefully people will trust me and keep reading. Um it's I'm the ending's good.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

There were moments at the end though where I just wanted to shake Cole and Leo and just be like, just talk to each other.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

I yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

Just communicate.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

Just tell each other things.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

Right. Right. I think the the the ma the male ego for both of them just gets kind of I mean they're both what still young too.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

So I think a lot of life lessons to learn.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

I mean, they're they're I mean they're in their mid-20s, but they're just their their experience of life has just not been why it's just stepping one.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

In their mid-20s, we're still pretty stupid. They also still had a lot of growing up to do.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Yeah, yeah. I thought I thought, yeah. I mean, they they the what we're it's not a coming of age story because the problems that they're encountering are not like teenage problems. Uh, but they're they're like the quarter life. Like, I really wanted to have protagonists that were older and dealing with like I mean, teenage problems are problems too, but like adult problems, right? Because I think that we've got a lot of books dedicated to teenage problems and not a lot of books dedicated to that, like, you know, young adulthood time of your life where you're you're really struggling to figure stuff out, you know.

Cozy Fantasy Detour And Royal Road

SPEAKER_01 49:45

Yeah. Um they're at the age where they have to sit down and be like, okay, what like what am I gonna do with my life? Yeah. Like I'm at that point now. I need to make that decision. There's no more, well, I'll try this for a few years and I'll try that for a year, and like and they decide.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

And then when they get thrust into a world that's bigger and harder and more complicated than their little jobs, it's like, holy cow, what do we what do we do? You know, I like I always it's like being a parent, right? You have your kid and you're like, okay, who's gonna tell me what what to do? Where's the guidebook to being a parent? And then there's all of these like infinite amount of decisions. And you're like, wow, I'm gonna let go of everything I've held against my parents, because like and then you just hope you make the right choice, right? You know, so I hopefully am getting that across in the book, and uh, we'll see them progress and mature and make better decisions.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

I would imagine it's probably a similar scenario to like graduating from college. You've had your not really like a small, tiny fishbowl world, but like you know, you're in this condensed, mostly smaller group of people, and then you're done and you're out there and you're on your own and you're like this is a lot harder than I thought it would be.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, and that organic chemistry class is not useful. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

Yeah. Yep. All right. So one final question, and then we will uh talk about where people can find you. Okay. I ask this of everyone now. If you could pick a stat or ability to be your main stat or main ability, what would you pick?

SPEAKER_00 51:39

Oh, that is a good question. Um I am getting to the point in life where I've lost a few people and I love like a time, a time skill where I could go back and visit some people that I've lost along the way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

That would be a good one. Yeah. Like Hermione's time turner.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Yeah. Like I personally I kind of hate time travel novels and stuff, but like on a personal level, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

There's some people that I would like to go back and I don't want to read about it, but if I could do it, right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

Maybe I don't like reading about it because it's like I wish I had that power, right? Because I can't have that power, right? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

That makes sense. So where can people find you?

SPEAKER_00 52:22

Yeah, so Facebook and TikTok are maybe my two top social medias. Um, I'm pretty consistent in like posting and updating people there. Um, I've got a Discord, it's not super advertised because I am not super savvy on Discord, so I'm afraid of getting spammers and stuff. But if you want my Discord just message me or, you know, reach out on Facebook or whatever. I'm on Patreon, so people do get advanced chapters on Patreon. And I've got the podcast uh Beyond Quests with Rec where I'm interviewing people, um, which is just a hoot. I love I'm like as you do, like I love doing talking to people, it's fun. Um, but yeah, I mean those are kind of the places um it's hard to not find me. Yeah, if you want to see uh an elder millennial on TikTok. I'm trying. I'm trying, man.

SPEAKER_01 53:09

I mean, same.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

It's not does not come naturally.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

It does not, it does not at all. Although I think my year that I was born technically makes me a xennial.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

Yeah, I'm right on the I'm right on the line. We're we're right in the same boat.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Yeah, that the last couple years of Gen X and the last cup the flat like the first couple years of millennial ended up being like xennials.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

Depending on which website you go to.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

Yeah. Yeah. But uh, but yeah, what that means is TikTok has been it's getting easier, I think.

SPEAKER_01 53:46

Practice makes perfect.

SPEAKER_00 53:47

Okay, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But um, you know, I'm pretty friendly. Uh feel free to come up to me at cons and stuff. Happy to talk. And some of my BFFs this year, I just got over my anxiety and was sitting on a couch and randomly started talking to people. So hey.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 54:04

Yeah, I'll I'll be at JordanCon and LitRPG Con. Uh, DragonCon's a question mark this year, but certainly we'll be at those two cons too.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

Well, I will definitely see you at both of those conventions.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

Yeah, we could. We'll have to hang out.

SPEAKER_01 54:17

Yes. And I will I'm bringing Girl Scout cookies to JordanCon.

SPEAKER_00 54:21

Ah, excellent. So many Girl Cookies. Which what kind of Girl Scout cookies? Which what's your favorite?

SPEAKER_01 54:26

Five different kinds I'm bringing.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

Yes. All you're like, all of the Girl Scout. I got a vendor booth to sell Girl Scout cookies.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

James and Jeanette were selling them. And I was like, oh, I'll get some from James and Jeanette. And then I was like, what am I gonna? I don't even really eat sweets and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

So like Ren like has people come up to her hotel room because she's got like jungle juice and a giant. Yeah. Like we're then we'll go over to your Girl Scout cookies. Yeah, go for Girl Scout cookies. We'll just load up.

Time Power Question And Where To Find Rec

SPEAKER_01 54:56

I'll just give them to people by the box. I'll be like, Do you want a box of Girl Scout cookies? I have two cases here. Please take a box.

SPEAKER_00 55:04

Yes. Yes. We'll convert.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

So if you want Girl Scout cookies, I'm I'm your girl.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

And you need to do is give you like little slug stickers to put on them.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

Just convert. I'll put a slug sticker and then I'll put one of my stickers and we'll be good. I didn't even think about that.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

Yeah, you need a brand, Jess. You gotta think about this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:28

Uh yeah, I'll put slug stickers on.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

Yeah, do it.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

All right. So I will link, I will link to all your socials in the description of the video so everyone can find you easily. Thank you so much, Rec, for coming on. Thank you, everyone, for sticking around.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Read my book. I'm super excited, and hopefully you guys enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

It was fantastic. I will also say read the book.

SPEAKER_00 55:51

I'll take it.

SPEAKER_01 55:53

All right.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

All right.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

To everyone else, thank you for sticking around and keep leveling up.