Pop Therapy

Ep. 33 " A really helpful tool in bringing me back home to myself" (W/ Jack Bauer)

• Omar Torres • Season 2 • Episode 33

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On today's episode we're gonna slow things down and catch our breaths. Please join me in welcoming our guest Jack Bauer to talk to us about all things breath work! 

Need help slowing down and self soothing? Need help getting that extra bit of energy to help get you through a work out, then you're going to want to stay tuned and listen as Jack talks to us about his journey with breath work and how it has helped him not only slow down but reconnect with himself and his body. 

Follow Jack on IG:https://www.instagram.com/jack_p_bauer/reels/?__d=11%2F


Follow me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/haveyoutriedtherapy/

Follow the podcast on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poptherapythepod/

Photo by Daniel Seung Lee: https://danielseunglee.com/

Cover design by Bryan Barham: https://www.bryan-barham.com/

Leave a voicemail: https://www.speakpipe.com/PopTherapy


Omar:

Well, well, well, look who's come back to listen to another episode. Hi, it's me, Omar, your friendly neighborhood therapist. And I don't have a ton on my mind today. I do, however, have a prompt or maybe an ask. It's more of like an, I'm going to ask you to do something and I just want you to, I want you to go with me. All right. I want you to indulge me for a little bit. So wherever you are, if you can, I just want you to take a moment and notice your breath. That's all I want you to do. I just want you to take a moment and be aware of your breath. How is your breathing right now? Are you taking really deep, slow, full breaths, like in your belly? Are they more shallow and closer to your chest? Are you breathing through your nose? Are you breathing through your mouth? How does it feel? What is that sensation like to just wonder and be aware of your breath? today's episode, we're going to slow things down. Okay. So I feel like today's episode is really, is going to be a really good one. If you need to slow down, if you need to slow down your nervous system, if maybe you're feeling a little amped, right? And, or that nervous energy. And it's like, I don't really need that right now. I need like chill vibes, So I feel like this is the episode for you. Maybe this will be great. Like while you're folding laundry, just like something, something relaxing, something simple. Right. I think today's episode. is going to be a really good episode is going to be a really good episode for that for when you need just like slow down a little bit. and that's kind of like, yeah, that'll be like the theme kind of of today's episode, which is a wonderful segue into introducing our next guest. You know, when I was thinking about topics, like, what do I want to talk about? What do I want to share with audiences? What do I want to share with you? I want to share with you. One of the things that has been in the back of my mind for a while is breath work. And it's something that it's orbited in and out of my life in terms of like my consciousness and awareness of it as a therapist, you know, breath work comes up pretty regularly, pretty often, but not so much in pop culture, not, not that much, a little bit here and If I'm watching, you know, if I'm watching, you know, a show with a therapist in it, maybe, or if I'm scrolling through Instagram. So that is why I invited our guest over to talk to us all things breath work. I'm so, so excited to bring him on. Please welcome into your hearts. Jack Bauer. Hi.

Jack B:

Hey,

Omar:

how are you?

Jack B:

Great. That was such a beautiful intro.

Omar:

Thank you.

Jack B:

I feel more

Omar:

We're

Jack B:

grounded.

Omar:

done. See, you're cured. We're done. That's the end. That's the end of our

Jack B:

Like,

Omar:

episode.

Jack B:

that's literally it.

Omar:

Um, your hair looks great by the way, I have to say. So good job. But whenever I see really I'm wearing a hat right now, so you can tell. Um, but, but I do. I also, you know, I,

Jack B:

love

Omar:

I

Jack B:

my hair.

Omar:

It's like my thing. It's like my obsessive. It's my obsession. I tend to it a lot like a little baby. Thank you so, so much for coming on. Like I said before, breath work is, is something that has orbited in and out of my life. And it's one of those things where I think I, I think I got to a point where I was just like, okay, Omar, you keep thinking about this. So, so do something like enough already. You know what I mean? Like just like reach out. And so I reached out to our mutual friend, Jason, uh, shout out girl, miss you, love you. Um, and he, uh, connected me to you. So tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and the work that you do.

Jack B:

Yeah. Um, so this is so cool. Um, so I'm Jack Bauer. I don't know if anybody knows the TV show 20,

Omar:

24. Of course.

Jack B:

But

Omar:

Of course.

Jack B:

I just know that there's probably going to be some listeners that'll be like, Oh my God, like, they'll be thinking about that. Just

Omar:

Yay.

Jack B:

know. I know. Um,

Omar:

We hear you,

Jack B:

but-

Omar:

we see you.

Jack B:

You, um, I had the name first. So, we're here to talk about breathwork. Yeah, so, uh, I know I already shared this with you, but I currently work a nine-to-five at a company called Salesforce, and I'm in sales, which is pretty high-stress, intense job, not, like, the most, but there's definitely waves of high intensity.

Omar:

Oh, yeah. I

Jack B:

Um,

Omar:

have

Jack B:

and

Omar:

clients

Jack B:

then,

Omar:

that come in, and they're like, oh, it's the end of the quarter, and I'm like, okay, buckle up. I know what that means.

Jack B:

yeah,

Omar:

They're,

Jack B:

exactly.

Omar:

like, so, strap in. I'm like, okay, I'm here. I'm with you.

Jack B:

Exactly. Um, and then, really, my passion and the work that I've been doing or feel most aligned to over the past few years, specifically with breathwork, has just kind of, yeah, taken up a big part of my life.

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

Um, and then, in addition to that, I recently, did a 200-hour yoga teacher certification. So,

Omar:

Wow.

Jack B:

yay.

Omar:

Congratulations.

Jack B:

Thank you so much. and- I have a history of teaching in group fitness. I

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

used to teach at SoulCycle. I was at SoulCycle for about six, seven years.

Omar:

so teaching is, like, in your blood, I feel like.

Jack B:

It, I, it has become that way, and I really think, and I'll share more about my story, and we can connect the dots of why that maybe

Omar:

Sure.

Jack B:

is. But I really do feel like the way that I have just developed and learned and grown has been through teaching myself and then teaching others. then, yeah, I think, like, my whole mission with breathwork for me over the last two years has been wanting to help, because it's helped me so much, come back home to myself. So that's, like, my whole kind of message, I guess.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

With all of it is breathwork has been a really helpful tool in bringing me back home to myself. And I have spent so many years. Self-abandoning,

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

you know, like, totally outside of, of just being home with myself. And then coming back home to myself, what have, that has just changed my whole world

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

in so many beautiful ways. And it is a constant practice, you know. And the beautiful thing about breathwork is, like, the breath is always there.

Omar:

Yeah, yeah.

Jack B:

It's our best friend. I've heard it described in some ways, you know. So,

Omar:

When

Jack B:

yeah.

Omar:

I think of the phrase, getting back to yourself or coming home to yourself, I, there's a few thoughts that come to mind. So the first one is, which I think is probably the more common thought, maybe, I could be wrong, which is, like, getting back into your body, right? And, and just being aware. And, and what I mean by that, getting back into your body is being aware of your body, being aware

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

of, like, where it is, what

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

it's doing, how

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

it's feeling. Like, is it, is it cold? Is it hot? Is it neutral? Um, is it sweating? Is it itchy? Like, even just like, just like

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

being in tune with my body. And then I also think of, my inner compass. When I think of the idea of coming back home to myself, I think of that inner voice. That's like, that, that, that is my, like due north, right? Like my northern star, so to speak. Is that what you think of, is that what comes up for you when you think about coming back home to yourself as well? How do you process that concept?

Jack B:

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's all of those things. I think the sensation piece first, um,

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

uh, you know, especially a lot of the breath work that I do outside of the transformational breath work, which I'll kind of speak to I do a lot of down-regulating breath work.

Omar:

later.

Jack B:

So that's like slowing things down, getting yourself back in your body. Totally. Yeah. The sensation piece of it all, the bringing back, like your awareness to just like right here in the present moment.

Omar:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jack B:

Coming home and then, yeah, the deeper kind of like, let's go below the mind,

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

like tap into kind of, yeah, the maybe more spiritual stuff. I don't know. Like that's that, that is how I connect to it.

Omar:

Okay. Lovely.

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

Was breathwork... I mean, it sounds... I think I already know the answer to this, but I'll ask you anyway. It sounds like breathwork wasn't necessarily on your vision board your entire life. I don't get the sense that you sort of, um, I don't know, that in undergrad you were

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

like, you know what, I'm gunning for breathwork. That's my target. That's what I want. Or that it's maybe something that sort of unfolded before you over time

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

and presented itself to you as an adult maybe? Is that... How did you get into breathwork?

Jack B:

Yeah, uhm, it hasn't. And honestly, it's so interesting 'cause kind of thinking through this moment where we're talking about breathwork and anytime I kind of gear up to talk about breathwork, I always take a little trip down memory lane. And,

Omar:

Yes. I love

Jack B:

you know, and then,

Omar:

it. I love

Jack B:

and yeah. And like in the perspective of things and, um, you know, one of the, the things that's really interesting, my relationship with the breath, before it became like breathwork for me, I was born with asthma. Um, and so I already came into the world with like a really challenging

Omar:

it. Yeah.

Jack B:

relationship with breath. Like I was like six months old and like holding up, you know, these, like breathing machines.

Omar:

Oh, wow.

Jack B:

You know, I was a baby. And then in some crazy, amazing, cool, I don't think in any coincidental way, I also found a passion for singing. And so at like nine years old, my parents were like, we're going to put you in voice Since

Omar:

that's awesome. That's awesome.

Jack B:

Like probably because I sounded so bad and I. Like a first grade talent show. And like, I have the

Omar:

it.

Jack B:

recording of

Omar:

Oh, that's adorable.

Jack B:

Immediately after that. But again, here's this like through line of like my relationship to breath. It's all about diaphragmatic breathing.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

and I think it was all preparing me. Maybe this kind of how I'm shaping the story to

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

be. So that's one of the things that I like to keep in mind is that I, you know, I'm going to the ability to do so with my physical experience in life is like, two years ago, I had a friend that kept telling me, um, you know, hey, like I'm going to this active breath work class. Like I think you would really like it. You should come. And then I was like, you know, after the third or fourth time he had asked me, I was like, all right, I'll go. And I just had this beautiful experience. This kind of like, I remember the moment of just like lying on the mat in this yoga studio. having an emotional kind of like opening a connectedness to my body that I really hadn't felt in a very long time.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

At the time I was on medication for anxiety and depression. So I was kind of feeling numb.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

And it was like, whoa, what is this? And immediately, like the second thought after that kind of awareness was, I need to teach this. Like I need

Omar:

Oh,

Jack B:

to.

Omar:

wow.

Jack B:

I need to do more of this. I need to. This feels like a really helpful tool.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

Um, and from there, like, I haven't looked back and truly like since then, every single week or day, like something has been kind of, I've been focused on the breath, breath

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

work.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

So,

Omar:

Oh, that's,

Jack B:

yeah.

Omar:

that

Jack B:

And

Omar:

is.

Jack B:

there's, and.

Omar:

Cool.

Jack B:

And it's, it's amazing. I think we're in a really cool time. I don't think that it's also a coincidence that we're at this time where, like, AI has entered into the scene

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

and people are more dysregulated or more like out of touch with themselves.

Omar:

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Jack B:

Ever before. But here, then you have this other side of it where, like, a huge community of people. I mean, breath work has been around for

Omar:

years.

Jack B:

thousands

Omar:

Of

Jack B:

of

Omar:

course. Yeah.

Jack B:

Since, you know, it can be traced back to being documented of, like, with yoga and all of that. Sorry if I'm getting carried away.

Omar:

No, no, no. I'm following. No, this is great. This is great.

Jack B:

You said to, like, nerd out.

Omar:

Yeah, please. So, wait, I do, I do wanna,

Jack B:

pause.

Omar:

so I understand that, like, breath was always kind of around for you, and we've entered this interesting time where I think it's becoming more important now than ever to, to like, reconnect with oneself, to like, reconnect to your own humanity, and part of

Jack B:

Slow

Omar:

that,

Jack B:

down.

Omar:

and to slow down, yes, exactly, with the advent of technology and all that, which isn't right, like, and this isn't coming from a place of, I think technology is bad, or blah blah

Jack B:

No.

Omar:

blah blah blah, like, it's not inherently

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

bad, but, I do agree, I see a yearning, and like, a longing for the humanity, for ourselves, for like, very human, simple, simply human things, I'm noticing that more, which is what it sounds like you're also noticing, as well, um, it also sounds like your relationship with breath, with the breath was fraught, at first, is that how it felt, being?

Jack B:

Great word to describe

Omar:

Right?

Jack B:

it.

Omar:

Like, you come into this world, and you're like, oh, damn, here's this thing that is, you know,

Jack B:

to

Omar:

supposed

Jack B:

be a challenge.

Omar:

Yeah, and it's supposed to be something that, like, I come inherently knowing, quote unquote, how to do, right? Like, we breathe in our sleep, literally, right? Like, we can breathe in our sleep, and then for you, it is a more challenging experience. Do you have early memories of, like, I don't know, like, what was your relationship at that point, um, when you were a kid? Like, what was the relationship like? What, did it feel really tense? Did it feel really fraught? Or were you kind of like, I'll make it work? Like, what was it like for you?

Jack B:

I think that, um, I think that I naturally just,

Omar:

I

Jack B:

think that even though I was going to doctor's appointments, um, had to breathe into tubes to, like, measure my lung capacity.

Omar:

Right, right.

Jack B:

I was taking, like, prescription, like, albuterol is,

Omar:

like,

Jack B:

you know, and all of that. I still, my mom also, like, described, like, I never let it slow me down. I guess that, like, kind of speaks to, it's, I'm still like that.

Omar:

Yeah, yeah.

Jack B:

You know, I really want something, I go after it. And, and, like, um, I started, I think, walking when I was, like, seven or eight months old, which is very early.

Omar:

All right. Okay.

Jack B:

Well,

Omar:

Brag.

Jack B:

like,

Omar:

Humble.

Jack B:

the, the. Like, doctors were nervous for me, like, you know, but I think that was my body's way of coping with, like, I gotta get up, I gotta open up,

Omar:

Oh,

Jack B:

I gotta

Omar:

wow.

Jack B:

move. You

Omar:

Yeah,

Jack B:

know,

Omar:

yeah.

Jack B:

like, I really feel like that just, it's that knowing, like, that deeper knowing in our, in, yeah, my body that, like, has always been taking care of me, like,

Omar:

Gotcha.

Jack B:

you know?

Omar:

Okay, gotcha. And then.

Jack B:

Yeah, that made sense. Um, and, yeah, go

Omar:

Yeah,

Jack B:

ahead.

Omar:

no, and then I was gonna ask, and then voice came in, and you said that your parents put you in voice lessons.

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

Was that, was that maybe, I would imagine that that was the first time that you started to get, like, a technical understanding of the breath and what it could do. What, what was that like for you?

Jack B:

Yeah. Um. Gosh, like, gosh, like, diaphragmatic breathing, I remember having to, like, my voice teacher gave me the assignment of laying on my back, putting like, uh, five or three or four textbooks on my stomach,

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

and then practicing like, inhaling it, feeling it expand.

Omar:

Whoa.

Jack B:

And then watching it kind of, you know, fall down or, or come down.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

And I, yeah, I, I, I learned about the diaphragm and

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

like what that is and how it's a muscle, but like, we can't really actually feel it sensation, but it allows for like our lungs to expand more float fully. And through this kind of, and through this kind of, and through this kind of, now my understanding further of it is with diaphragmatic breathing, belly breathing.

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

you're, you're stimulating the vagus nerve.

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

Vagus nerve is the highway to connecting with the parasympathetic nervous system.

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

Which is rest and digest. So really like singing humming is a natural, just way, a really awesome tool to help use, um, to calm the nervous system in the body and, Right. And a part of my story is I- so I'm from a very small farm town out

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

in Chicago.

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

Um, religious upbringing.

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

And I think around the age of, like, 9, 10 was when I was, like, I'm different. And

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

by that, I mean, I'm gay.

Omar:

Yeah, yeah.

Jack B:

Um, I'm not, like, other boys. And- but I like boys.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

And, and, you know, in that kind of, like, setting the religious piece of it all, the,

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

you know, I, I am, I, that's when I kind of started the self-abandoning and the-

Omar:

Ah, yes, yes.

Jack B:

And so to have that, but also, like, being singing and, like, kind of being pushed in this direction of, like, it's okay to, like, perform and do-

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

I was, like, getting good at but I think just to kind of pull out the thread of, like, how the breath has always been something that has been so helpful for me in hopes that other people listening to this kind of maybe do an inventory of their, their connection to the breath.

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

Like, it's always taking care of me. Like, the singing thing, at the times where I felt most disconnected from myself, I still had this thing, like, vocal performance, singing, to, like, bring me back to-

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

Like, bring me back to, and it, and when I'm singing, it's, like, the best I feel, you know?

Omar:

That is so lovely. What a restorative, to go from, you know, not that it, um, held you back, not that you didn't overcome, but to go from being diagnosed with having asthma to then going into singing. Like, what a, like, healing, I'm, I'm almost framing this in my mind as, like, couples therapy between you and your breath, and, like,

Jack B:

Yeah,

Omar:

voice lessons was, like, couples therapy where you learn to work together, and you actually, like, restored this relationship or healed this, like, I'm using air quotes here, but, like, rupture in a relationship and actually started collaborating with each other, which is exactly what couples therapy is. You know what I mean? Like, there's

Jack B:

I

Omar:

all

Jack B:

love

Omar:

this

Jack B:

that.

Omar:

tension, and then, hopefully, the couple walks away feeling like a team, right, and not, like, adversarial, and it sounds like singing for you was, was a, a version of that, was, like, a version of couples therapy between you and your breath, which is just, like, so lovely to hear.

Jack B:

I love that.

Omar:

And I also appreciate, like, the other thought I had was you tying in the identity component. So, you know, for you, abandoning yourself, the, what, what it looked like for you, it sounds like, was you maybe denying or hiding a part of yourself, essentially, right? Yeah, yeah. And you know, the toll that that takes on one's psychology and body, like, varies. How did it show up for you?

Jack B:

Yeah, I, I coped with food, that was kind of my substance.

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

And it eventually led to me being, weighing, like, 320 pounds. I was in, I was in a bigger, yeah, I was in a bigger body.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

and super addicted to, like, fast food and.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

And, yeah, that's just, that's, like, how I coped.

Omar:

Right, right.

Jack B:

And eventually, when I left home, I went away to a small liberal arts school outside of Chicago. And I finally had, like, this kind of awakening moment where I needed to accept the truth that I needed help. Like, I fell out of control. and so I raised my hand and, and, you know, called on the people that I needed,

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

uh, to help me in the journey of, again, like, coming back home to myself. I know I sound like a broken record, but, like, getting healthy in, in a way, not doing the things that I was doing before,

Omar:

Right,

Jack B:

you know?

Omar:

right, like, the maladaptive.

Jack B:

The maladaptive

Omar:

For

Jack B:

coping mechanism.

Omar:

coping,

Jack B:

Which,

Omar:

right.

Jack B:

which to me, like, yes, I, I can see it as self-protection, but it was also self-abandonment.

Omar:

Yeah,

Jack B:

I

Omar:

yeah.

Jack B:

didn't know that at the time, you know, but looking back, of course, I look at that version of myself, I'm, like, so, like, I look at that version of myself in awe,

Omar:

now.

Jack B:

you know,

Omar:

Mm-hmm,

Jack B:

Like,

Omar:

mm-hmm.

Jack B:

oh, such a sweet,

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

like,

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

boy, that was just doing his best and, like, as we all are, but I was so in pain. I was in so much pain

Omar:

Of

Jack B:

and I.

Omar:

course.

Jack B:

Oh, it, you and so, yeah, like this was about 11 or 12 years ago. I kind of like, I started that.

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

health and fitness.

Omar:

Okay. Was that around the same time that you came out? Was that part of the

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

healing journey for

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

you as well? I would imagine.

Jack B:

Totally. It's kind of wild how, when you take that weight off, like, you know, figuratively speaking and you tell the truth.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

And then, like, what kind of that then ensues after that? What can happen? What that triggers, the momentum that you build, the, like, things that you no longer are willing to, like, accept

Omar:

yeah,

Jack B:

anymore.

Omar:

yeah,

Jack B:

And then, like, the process of the letting go,

Omar:

right.

Jack B:

Something that's so fascinating.

Omar:

It's so relieving, right? To,

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

to tell the truth. Like, even, watching you tell that story, there was a moment where you let out a sigh of relief. And I'm like, that is so real. That moment when you do, you

Jack B:

you're

Omar:

let,

Jack B:

like, yeah.

Omar:

Yeah. And it's this really interesting phenomenon where you're letting something go, but also integrating something at the same time. Like,

Jack B:

Hmm.

Omar:

you're letting something go, but you're becoming more whole. You know what I mean?

Jack B:

Hmm.

Omar:

It's like this weird paradox that happens

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

at the same time. Um, that often brings about the, like, ah, that like sigh of relief. And, you, you brought back a memory that, I haven't thought about in a long time. In undergrad, I majored in psych and I did a whole presentation on the vagus nerve actually hearing you talk about, vagal nerve stimulation. Just like brought me back to that. I got an A on the just, um, I, um, I was very proud of it and I had to do like a whole presentation on it it's funny how aspects of that come up in my work now. In fact, I often tell clients, uh, or I talk to clients about humming as a way of, um, activating the vagus nerve and activating the parasympathetic nervous system and just like calming down, you know what I mean? And just like how helpful something as seemingly simple as humming can be. So you, you just like brought, brought all those memories, like rushing back.

Jack B:

I think a really cool. That's like, love, like love that we went there.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

Thank you for sharing that. And, and like, it's so cool. So there's two things that are coming to mind now and you can keep this in or not or whatever. But like, the first thing is I've, I've obviously, we all are like, we all have, we know what the breath is. We came into the world breathing. Like, it's not something that is like, Oh my God, this is like so cutting edge.

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

It's

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

like, we know these things. The point that I was going to say first was I like to view the breath as like ancient, this is going to sound crazy, but like technology.

Omar:

Okay. Okay.

Jack B:

Okay. Medicine. So I've heard it described as medicine. I like that being this medicine it knows.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

Like intuitively when you start to use it, how to heal,

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

like

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

whatever, you know, and the thing that you said about the humming piece, it's like, it blows my mind that like, we already have these natural things.

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

To us.

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

that we can pull on any time, but somehow because of the way that the world has gone and the like focuses on efficiency and optimization

Omar:

like a

Jack B:

and

Omar:

hundred percent,

Jack B:

you know, results and all of these, like we lose, like you said, kind of going back to that thread around humanness.

Omar:

I'm really. There's

Jack B:

something really cool about

Omar:

Like,

Jack B:

that.

Omar:

yes.

Jack B:

Like humming.

Omar:

Yeah. Right. Something as

Jack B:

What?

Omar:

simple as you write, like, wait, that calms you down. Like that.

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Jack B:

You didn't know it yet.

Omar:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jack B:

Also like.

Omar:

I, I'm also, I'm so, I'm also glad that you brought up the role that, like, current culture, current pop culture plays in our understanding of breathwork and maybe even some of our disbelief or tension around, um, breathwork or, like, meditative practices like breathwork, which is this, like, optimization culture. I was, I was recently speaking to a sleep and, and, and we were having, like, a very similar conversation about how fundamental sleep is to existence. And I'm thinking of, like, breath in the same way, like, oh, right, sleep and breath, it's just fundamental to us being alive, to us being conscious, conscious, to us, like, being here. And how much of this, like, optimization, uh, you know, hyper productivity culture has impacted sleep and our relationship to sleep. Have you noticed a similar effect happening with breathwork, with slowing down? Have you, what have, what have you seen? What have you noticed as it relates to that?

Jack B:

Like the first thought that I have around this is how, yeah, the optimization, the efficiency, like rhetoric, behavior, habits, all those things. Like I do, I do see it and I also participate in it

Omar:

um,

Jack B:

because of social media.

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

Like to get somebody's attention, you have two seconds.

Omar:

Right,

Jack B:

So the thing that I'm going to say is take five seconds to take a breath, you

Omar:

right,

Jack B:

know, like,

Omar:

right, right.

Jack B:

um, and, and while I do think that you can have major impact on your physiology in a few short seconds.

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

Just in pausing and, and coming back to the rest. So like, there's, there is that, I think, yeah, like the, the message like, I need to take a breath in this moment.

Omar:

Yeah, yeah, right. Because, because what's coming up for you right now? What,

Jack B:

It's

Omar:

what?

Jack B:

all moving fast. Like I have so much that I want to say. It's so much.

Omar:

Right. And you want to say it all

Jack B:

to. And

Omar:

and you want

Jack B:

I want it.

Omar:

Efficiently

Jack B:

Yeah. Efficient.

Omar:

and quickly as possible.

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

Yes. Yeah, exactly.

Jack B:

Yeah. and, and like, I need to remind myself, this is the practice that there isn't like the right thing to say, like that it's doesn't need to be said perfectly.

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

People get it. It is affecting like the breath work space, you

Omar:

right,

Jack B:

know,

Omar:

right.

Jack B:

especially because the breath work space hasn't had a formal, I don't know how to articulate this, but there with yoga, there's a yoga teacher training that everybody has to complete. Otherwise, like you can't technically be a certified yoga teacher.

Omar:

Gotcha.

Jack B:

You can take classes and you might be able to like speak.

Omar:

Sure.

Jack B:

All that, but you have to do a specific training

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

with work. There isn't a, there isn't like a.

Omar:

Formal or like standard.

Jack B:

Well,

Omar:

I

Jack B:

yeah, it's

Omar:

gotcha.

Jack B:

standard.

Omar:

think.

Jack B:

I

Omar:

Yep. Got it.

Jack B:

That's. So then you have all of these different like lineages that are breaking off these different.

Omar:

Ah,

Jack B:

And a lot of them, like, for example, bringing into pop culture, Wim Hof. Right. Like,

Omar:

what's that?

Jack B:

that's a very common, like.

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

So maybe not to everybody. Wim Hof is just, there's a man, his name is, his last name is Wim Hof. This kind of breath technique that he uses for like contrast therapy. So, you know, you do this like breathing technique in and out really fast. There's some breath holds there. And then it helps prepare you to get ready to like put your body into an extreme kind of cold state.

Omar:

Oh, I think I saw something. I think I saw a documentary or maybe it Gwyneth Paltrow's documentary,

Jack B:

Probably.

Omar:

actually. I think she

Jack B:

She

Omar:

visited.

Jack B:

might have done.

Omar:

I

Jack B:

Visited.

Omar:

think. And

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

it was like preparing a group of her employees to go into really, really like a super cold, like lake

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

that was like frozen.

Jack B:

Yeah, that's exactly it.

Omar:

Yeah,

Jack B:

So that was,

Omar:

okay. Got it,

Jack B:

yeah.

Omar:

got it. And

Jack B:

he kind of borrowed his, not borrowed, he made his own method, but like a lot of his kind of roots are grounded in like Tibetan, like lineage.

Omar:

Gotcha, okay.

Jack B:

Of pranayama, of, you know, breathing.

Omar:

Yeah, yeah.

Jack B:

Breath and life force. And this all had, like, the point that I was trying to yeah, it's like all being, depending on who touches

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

it. It's definitely on that, like, kind of, like, do this for 10 minutes and, like, then you'll be fixed. Everything.

Omar:

Right, right.

Jack B:

It's like, it's like, no, that's, like, not the point.

Omar:

It's

Jack B:

And

Omar:

like.

Jack B:

maybe it is, but it's, like, not.

Omar:

It's so tricky. You bring up such a fascinating point and such a, I think this is, like, as helpers, as healers, as therapists, as coaches, this is sort of, like, what we're running up against, It's like, the reality of the world that we live in that is constantly telling us, like, go, go, go, go, hurry, hurry, hurry. And, and there are instances where we do have to hurry. Like, there are. And some of them are totally justifiable. Like, if there's a car coming down the street, you, yes, hurry, cross the street. Like, you don't want to get hit by the car. And then there's other, like, less, quote, unquote, justifiable reasons when your boss is just, like, breathing down your neck to, like, make deliverables. And it's, like, yeah, no one's, no one's going to die, but you do have to make those deliverables because you do have to pay the bills. And all of that is happening while at the same time we're trying to encourage folks to slow down. The tension that comes up. For, for me, as a clinician, it's, like, palpable. Like, I can feel it. It's this constant tug of war that, or, like, tightrope walk that I'm engaged in, in understanding the realities of the world, but also understanding how crucial and important it is to slow down, even in the midst of, like, a super fast-paced world. So, like, yeah. And, and I'm always trying to straddle that line of, yes, I want to give you helpful tools to slow down, even if you only have a minute. Like, okay, let's work with the minute. Even though I'm, like, but you need more than a minute. Like, we need that. I'm,

Jack B:

Yes.

Omar:

like, if you only have a minute, that's part of the issue. You know what I

Jack B:

On

Omar:

mean?

Jack B:

the head. Yeah, that's exactly it. That's exactly it. Thank you for.

Omar:

Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course.

Jack B:

That's, yeah. And, and there was something that came up as you were kind of sharing this as well. Like, I think about the physiology of it or the, embodiment of it all. Like, maybe, like, I would like to think that if that person, including myself, does have a minute or takes a minute because they're just curious. Well, what if this does help?

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

I've tried all these other things where I'm doing all these things and I can't get out of the spiral or, you know, whatever it

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

is. And then you're like, oh, this is what I can feel like.

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

When I do slow down.

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

And then, like, that, to me, becomes the thing that, like, I, in my own experience, have then chased. Because I was like,

Omar:

hmm.

Jack B:

I have something else. I don't have to keep choosing A or B. Like, there's a different way, you know? And then it's like, oh, my gosh, how? And I think I'm in that process now.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

Like, I think that's, you know, I have had so, I've had two, I have to shout them out at some point. But I'll do it now. But Ali Maz and George Ramsey, those are my teachers. They were the ones that I've taken these breath work trainings from. And they have been in the world of breath work for a while. And, I think it's that process. Like, the just, oh, my gosh, the relief. And

Omar:

like,

Jack B:

for some people, like, that maybe operate on a, because we've talked a lot, or at least we've brought up a lot about down-regulating and slowing down. And that's, but there are also people that need to, like, speed

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

up. point. Get

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

off the

Omar:

That's

Jack B:

couch, you

Omar:

a good

Jack B:

know? And

Omar:

point.

Jack B:

I

Omar:

That's a

Jack B:

feel

Omar:

good

Jack B:

like there's also up-regulating breath as well. And there's times that I use both, you know, like, to, not at the same time, but, like, you know, play with it, right? It's,

Omar:

Yeah,

Jack B:

like.

Omar:

yeah.

Jack B:

There's a practice around it. And so, yeah, just kind of being, like, yeah, you can change. You

Omar:

That

Jack B:

can be,

Omar:

is. It's such a good point, that you made that, that is even illuminating to me. Uh, when I think of breathwork, I tend to think about the slowing down of it all. I didn't, I'd never imagined that breathwork could also include a speeding up-ness, which is also, which can also be super helpful and is also sometimes very crucial. But that's like, that is so interesting to hear. What does, what does that, look like? Like, let's say I, we were in a session or you were teaching me and I needed something to like light a fire under my ass, so to speak, or to like

Jack B:

like.

Omar:

get up off the couch and like move. What's like your go-to technique to help with that, the speeding up-ness?

Jack B:

Yeah. So, I mean, it's super simple. Like anything that you're going to do with like breathing techniques to speed the body up, it's going to be short. And fast.

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

And then to slow things down, you want to think long and slow.

Omar:

Gotcha.

Jack B:

It's literally like just kind of manipulating the count, the time. Um, typically like I find that short and fast done through like the nose or the mouth is going to land higher in your chest.

Omar:

Right. Right.

Jack B:

Right. Right. It kind of starts to rev up the, the system.

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

You know, versus the deep, slow belly breathing.

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

Right. Kind of slows things down. It's more soothing.

Omar:

Right. Right. The,

Jack B:

so yeah.

Omar:

The breath work technique that is quicker and shallow. How long would you recommend someone doing that for? Like, is, is that something where you're like, okay, you know, you, you don't want to do that for hours. Cause that's, we, we don't want to do that. We want to like dysregulate you or throw your body off balance, but you know, do this for 10 seconds. And, and this can be a helpful way of just like getting your body up and moving again. Is there, is there a count that exists like that? Is there like a threshold that you want to be cautious of or mindful of when it comes to that particular technique?

Jack B:

Yeah, that's a good question. And there's a couple of things coming up for me as.

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

Thinking about answering this. The first one is, this is one of the coolest things I think I, and why I love breath work so much is because yes, we're talking about the breath, but I think there's a lot of other things happening right now.

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

One is the relationship to the body and your own intuition.

Omar:

Yeah,

Jack B:

So there really isn't a right answer that I can give someone

Omar:

of

Jack B:

to

Omar:

course.

Jack B:

say, this is going to work for you. I'm saying that because I genuinely believe that. And also like, I'm not a doctor. Also, there's like no doctors of breath work.

Omar:

Right, right.

Jack B:

30 seconds might be send someone

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

that in that upregulating place, five minutes or 10 minutes might not be enough.

Omar:

Yeah, got it.

Jack B:

Who is trying to practice that upregulating type of technique or breath. So, you know, I think it's, it comes down to, and really, truly, this is anybody who's like, I'm curious about breath work, or I've like heard about this class that somebody's been going to, and like, I want to try Like, number one, and like, number one, like, you're going to try

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

it. Like, you're in control. And to just start being curious about listening to what your body is asking you

Omar:

Preach.

Jack B:

to do,

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

you know?

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

Or what it needs, rather. And that could be really hard. Like, I know that my relationship with my body, as I've shared in little tidbits, like, there's so, we'd be here for hours,

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

like, talking about all that. Like, it's taken a lot to get here and to be comfortable sitting, like, in my own skin and in my

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

body. And that has only been because I've, like, taken these small little, like, moments

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

to, OK, let me check in and see how this works for me. And the cool, also the cool thing is that you can do this upregulating breath for 30 seconds and find that, oh, like, this isn't working. You're fine.

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

Like, paying a drug.

Omar:

Right. Right.

Jack B:

Where you're like, oh, you're,

Omar:

Dealing

Jack B:

you're

Omar:

with crazy

Jack B:

not

Omar:

side

Jack B:

bad.

Omar:

effects, sir. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Like, no,

Jack B:

You

Omar:

you're

Jack B:

got

Omar:

it. You're

Jack B:

six

Omar:

it.

Jack B:

hours

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

later.

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

Like you

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

could just, it's like, you know, so I think I also appreciate that about this practice and like this work.

Omar:

Yeah. Me too, that it, that it ultimately incentivizes you to listen to your own body and to prioritize that and to, um, cultivate that relationship. I also love this idea of like, you know what, if you only have a minute, like fine, fine. And, and then, but that's almost like, uh, to, to, to continue on this like drug analogy, it's like a gateway drug into breath work. Right. Cause then you have that minute where you're like, oh, I want that again. I want, I want to feel that I want to, I want to feel that for five minutes now. I want to feel

Jack B:

yeah,

Omar:

it for 10 minutes now. And you, you pursue that like sense of relief or that calm or that energy. And so I, I like reframing the, like, we only have a minute. It's like, everyone's so busy. It's like, okay, we're, I'm just going to give you like a sneak peek. I'm going to give you a taste and then you can decide how that felt for you. And you can decide if that's something that you want to pursue. Even, even though like, again, even like as a therapist, what I want to say is if you only have a minute, you're too busy. We need to like, we need to look at your schedule and you know, don't get me wrong. I think there's validity to that. But I also think that I forget sometimes that there's also power in the minute and that there's like something, a minute can be transformative. You know what I mean? And I think that that's also part of like, I don't know, the hurry up and go-ness of our culture is like forgetting that these like small moments can actually really matter and make a difference. One question that I had for you out of many is when do you usually find yourself using breathwork techniques like for yourself? Like, is there a time of day that you naturally gravitate to or are there experiences that you usually, that you have that you use breathwork for? Like, when do you usually engage with it yourself?

Jack B:

Yeah, honestly find myself coming in and out of present enough to like, be like, okay, I need to.

Omar:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jack B:

and some of the things that are comforting for is like doing like accounting. So there's many ways to do breathwork, which is just like when we say breathwork, we're just talking, I'm talking about like controlling the breath.

Omar:

Uh-huh. Okay. That's a good

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

distinction to

Jack B:

Just

Omar:

make. Yeah.

Jack B:

start doing, because there are deeper transformative breathwork practices, but kind of what I'll be referencing in this, answering this question of like, how do you do it daily? Is just breath, breathing techniques that are kind of like easily accessible. So,

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

and B, I come back to counting. So like, and again, that kind short and, and fast, it's going to be more upregulating.

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

Slow and long or deep is, um, going to be more soothing, downregulating. And one of the breathwork techniques that I use constantly is like the five, five breathwork technique.

Omar:

Five. Okay. Okay.

Jack B:

Also called coherent breathing. and one of the reasons why it's called that is there is a institution called the Mark, um, heart math Institute, and

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

they study kind of the science and the relationship between the heart and the mind and

Omar:

Ah.

Jack B:

the thought. Um, it's, it's beautiful stuff. And one of the things that they have found is that when you breathe in for a count of five seconds and then exhale for a count of five seconds. And it's really like, you know, I think they have it down to like, um, you know, starts to then, um, become, uh, in tune with your heart, your breath and your mind. And

Omar:

your body

Jack B:

then everything's kind of, um, um, another really interesting piece. And I did write this down cause I wanted to reference it. So, at 5.5 breaths per minute, you're breathing at the same rhythm as many ancient prayer and chant traditions across.

Omar:

Oh,

Jack B:

I thought that with that. And we just kind of naturally just do

Omar:

Huh?

Jack B:

that.

Omar:

Yeah. It's

Jack B:

yeah. Yeah.

Omar:

not like those prayers or chants were timed at 5.5 intentionally. That's just sort of what happens

Jack B:

you-

Omar:

naturally when

Jack B:

Naturally.

Omar:

So that like meditative prayer state. Oh, that is so

Jack B:

so-

Omar:

fascinating.

Jack B:

So cool.

Omar:

And

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

You inhale for five and then exhale right away or do you hold?

Jack B:

Yep. Yep.

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

Yep. Just keep it cyclical. And

Omar:

why- and outside of the heart and mind connection, why is this one that you go to constantly for you?

Jack B:

For me, honestly, it just feels so soothing. It's like I can just- I can count to five like without- without getting distracted by the breath holds that you were-

Omar:

Ah.

Jack B:

Starting to mention-

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

so

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

like there's the four, seven, eight.

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

Inhale for four, you hold your breath for seven.

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

For eight, honestly, some days I can't even- I can't stay

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

present enough

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

to hold my breath for seven. I will lose track of what number I'm on.

Omar:

That's so helpful.

Jack B:

But I'm frustrated and I get in my head

Omar:

like-

Jack B:

and I'm

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

Oh my gosh. Like I can't count to seven.

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

And so five is just like in for five, out for five, in for five. And I do this at my desk. I do it like when I'm on the subway. I do oftentimes like yeah, anytime I'm like I just find myself kind of like checking back in with like the five and five, you know? And then occasionally, again, it's like you can play with it. It doesn't have to be this like- and then I do a breath hold.

Omar:

Right,

Jack B:

And then

Omar:

right.

Jack B:

I enjoy the feeling of that like release that comes with like exhaling,

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

you

Omar:

I'm- it's so nice to hear that there is a breathing technique that is for moments where you're like, I really- I'm too distracted. I need something even simpler. Five in, five out. Five in, five- and that that is still- that there's still benefits to that regardless of whether- regardless of where your mind is and regardless of like maybe your inability to, you know, hold your breath and count until seven. I like how accessible that is.

Jack B:

know?

Omar:

My- so I went through your Instagram, which we'll share with folks. But one of- there was one breathing technique that immediately stuck out to me as my favorite. The physiological

Jack B:

Yes.

Omar:

one. I-

Jack B:

We're

Omar:

I'm not-

Jack B:

in sync because I wanted to talk about that one.

Omar:

Okay. Take it away. Talk about that one. I- yeah, I have- I have thoughts, but I'd go first.

Jack B:

Okay. Okay. So this is also one of my go-tos and favorites. And I'm curious to get why it stuck out to you and all of that, but I am going to get nerdy for a second.

Omar:

Please.

Jack B:

I have to write this down so that I would be able to articulate effectively. So when we're stressed, tiny air sacs in our lungs called avioli collapse, reducing the surface area available for gas exchange.

Omar:

Oh,

Jack B:

the double inhale, that second, like,

Omar:

yeah. So

Jack B:

it re-inflates those sacs, a full offload of CO2.

Omar:

Oh.

Jack B:

So this exhale- So the exhale is what activates the parasympathetic nervous system.

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

again, we've talked about it, but the vagus nerve then is stimulated, and that's really what's connected to- that's what's turning on that parasympathetic.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

you're essentially hitting a brake pedal. This

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

is why it works so fast. I use that sometimes, honestly, at the gym to recover after, like, an intense set because you kind of hit it hard, and then I need,

Omar:

Oh.

Jack B:

like, to

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

adjust pretty quickly.

Omar:

Oh, that's really helpful to know you know, usually I think engaging in a breathing technique as I have to be either at my office or home alone. I don't think of it as something that I can engage with while I'm

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

actively

Jack B:

I think, yeah, we

Omar:

doing

Jack B:

get, like,

Omar:

something.

Jack B:

stuck in the- it's almost like, oh, this is our storyline for what meditation is supposed to

Omar:

Yes.

Jack B:

look like. And it's like, well, actually, like, you can do it anywhere, anywhere.

Omar:

So hearing that you can even use it like in between sets at the gym, I think is helpful for me to know. And I, so I know it'll be helpful for our listeners to know that like even in between sets like this, the physiological breath technique would be helpful. Can I ask you to walk us through that right now? Can we do a quick little physiological, what is it? Is

Jack B:

It's

Omar:

that the official

Jack B:

called the

Omar:

term?

Jack B:

physiological sigh.

Omar:

The physiological sigh, yes, that's what it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Can we do that real

Jack B:

Yeah,

Omar:

quick right now? Is

Jack B:

absolutely,

Omar:

that

Jack B:

yeah.

Omar:

okay? Okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna let you, you take the lead. I'm, I'm just like here to learn. I'm, I'm a humble student. Um, uh, take it

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

away.

Jack B:

So we're going to do the physiological sigh. Um, and this is all going to be done through our nose. We'll exhale out of our mouth.

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

Um, and essentially it's two inhales, but on the first inhale, you full, fill up your lungs. And then once you get to kind of like the very tip, we're going to take one more inhale in through our nose, like a tip.

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

And

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

then you exhale and release.

Omar:

Okay. So we're going to try that right now, folks. So inhale almost to the tippy top. Yeah. And then

Jack B:

in

Omar:

one

Jack B:

one

Omar:

more

Jack B:

more. And,

Omar:

and then

Jack B:

die it out. Yeah.

Omar:

So the reason why I loved this is because, and I think you touched on this in the, in the post. It, um, reminds me of when I've, whenever I've had a good cry of that, of

Jack B:

yeah,

Omar:

that, like, and there's something about that, that was so one, just like, so human. And so like, oh, like, so what we touched on earlier, this idea of, we have so much already in us that is geared towards healing. Like the human beings inherent capacity towards healing is just like, so fascinating to me and so lovely to me. And so this is just like another example of, oh, this thing that I've already been doing is actually like, there's a name for it. And there's a, there's a function for it. And it's actually really helpful. And I've been doing it this whole time after a good cry is just like, so

Jack B:

of.

Omar:

beautiful

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

to think like not to be all like,

Jack B:

No, I

Omar:

I don't know, mushy about it,

Jack B:

Oh,

Omar:

but

Jack B:

I love

Omar:

yeah.

Jack B:

that. And I think it also ties back to the thread of what we were saying about humming and

Omar:

right.

Jack B:

Vibration and all of that. And I mean, there are times when you just naturally without thinking you inhale and then you sigh, you know, and

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

it's, and so it's like, we've already had this built

Omar:

Yeah. That's so lovely. So I want to be mindful of

Jack B:

you're,

Omar:

time.

Jack B:

you're all

Omar:

I just,

Jack B:

good. Yeah. Um, sorry,

Omar:

um,

Jack B:

before I forget something that I did want to nerd out on and

Omar:

you,

Jack B:

or

Omar:

please,

Jack B:

not,

Omar:

please.

Jack B:

but it was like, essentially with all of this breath work from, if, you know, you, we get down to like the science of it, we're just playing with CO2 in, in

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

our, in our

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

body. and so the, the breath work that I teach around the city, you know, and what I was trained in or learned, got certified to teach is referred to as transformative breath work. There really isn't like any other kind of term, I guess, as it's been described, but, um, for a very short period of time in that breathing practice, we're offloading a lot of CO2, which therefore is also dropping our oxygen levels. So people think like, Oh, we're getting more oxygen in the body because I'm doing, I'm breathing more. I'm

Omar:

right.

Jack B:

But I'm actually,

Omar:

Oh, it's about the CO2.

Jack B:

Yeah. And that's, what's causing the different kind of like sensations in the body. And I know we haven't really talked about like the transformative breath work, the deeper stuff that's available,

Omar:

Oh, that's fascinating. Is the transformative. Well, what is different about it? If you can give like a quick, like elevator pitch, um, what is transformative breath work? And, and, um, um, why might someone, why might that be good for, for someone specifically?

Jack B:

Yeah. So it's just an extended kind of, um, meditative, like active meditative practice, essentially is how

Omar:

Okay.

Jack B:

I would explain it. You're just doing a repetitive breathing pattern. sometimes it could be five minutes, 10 minutes, the classes that I teach or what I was trained in typically to optimize.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

Um, like

Omar:

He,

Jack B:

the,

Omar:

I know y'all can't see, but he used air quotes when he said

Jack B:

yeah.

Omar:

optimize, yeah.

Jack B:

And I rolled. Yeah,

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

to, to get the, the most effect, get like the best effect. Like if you go more than this, it's not like a bad thing or

Omar:

anything

Jack B:

like it kind of, it's a diminishing return

Omar:

on

Jack B:

is about 30 minutes. and so it's just this like in, up, out it's belly, chest, exhale. And it's used to help kind of clear, like stuck emotional energy. Again, that kind of mimicking of the cry. Essentially

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

what we're doing for about 25, 30 minutes.

Omar:

Ah,

Jack B:

This,

Omar:

okay.

Jack B:

there have been studies that have shown that this practice or this type of of breathing for a limited amount of time, reduces stress.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

Increases

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

alertness. it

Omar:

Hmm.

Jack B:

can boost your immune system.

Omar:

Mm

Jack B:

helps

Omar:

hmm.

Jack B:

improve sleep. and you know, some people have found that it's helped them manage pain better even. And there's

Omar:

Ah,

Jack B:

other benefits, but like, those are like the, the kind of like,

Omar:

Well, it reminds me of, um, you know, of the, I don't know how up to date and relevant this is anymore, but like when you would see Lamaze classes on TV, the

Jack B:

Oh, that's it.

Omar:

like

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

that was, yeah, was, um, you know, in any scene in a movie or TV show where there was Lamaze class, that was the breath work that was being done. And so the pain management component of breath work has, has, you know, has been around in pop culture for as long as I've been like conscious and like watching TV. So there's, there's just like a lot to that. Yeah. Um, so, uh, Jack, one question that I ask every guest is what is one piece of advice that you've gotten from the mental health that you live or swear by? So this can be something that you've learned about in your own therapy. This can be something you got from a book, a podcast, a friend, but what is one thing from the mental health world that you live by?

Jack B:

Oh,

Omar:

I love, I love your, I, I, it's like even coming for me. That's, that's what I appreciate about it is like when you take a moment to just even in front of me right now, while I'm speaking to you, that reminds me to like, Oh, I can, it's like giving me permission

Jack B:

thank

Omar:

to

Jack B:

you.

Omar:

do the same thing, which is like why I really appreciate that. That's like really helpful.

Jack B:

for saying

Omar:

Thank

Jack B:

that it's

Omar:

you

Jack B:

encouraging for me to be like, it's okay. Still, I

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

still have to practice that. Like, it's okay to pause. It's okay to breathe.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

So it's okay to feel this way. Um, thinking through this question, feeling through this question, I think something came up around like the permission to be in the process. Like to, to, there's something around like grace and empathy and love for, yeah, just like where I'm going to be in the process of where I'm at in my journey.

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

And where other people are also at in their journey of evolving. And, um, my therapist has a really amazing talent when it comes to like analogy, giving analogies and metaphors

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

and metaphors. about two years I was on medication for depression and anxiety. And I

Omar:

And,

Jack B:

kind of got to the point where I was like, well, this is having diminishing return.

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

And that I just feel completely numb or just not as, yeah, alive as like I want to be or connected

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

as I want to be. And it's kind of really cool that I found breathwork around this time.

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

Um, and I started after about a year of doing breathwork was finding myself like this little voice being like, maybe you're ready to try like without. Medication.

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

And I feel like that might help you out a lot. And it was, it took me some time to get there. But the analogy that he shared was like, while I was going through the process of kind of coming off of the medication and, and all of that was like, you know, with medication with. Substances, coping,

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

you know, it's like you're swimming in a lap pool that's four feet deep and you have floaties on and it's

Omar:

Mm-hmm.

Jack B:

great, we need this. It like

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

definitely helped me so much when I needed it. I know it's there when I do need it if I ever need it again. But getting off of that in any transition in life, really, it's like I took a step, a courageous step into the open water, into the deep

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

end. I don't know where the floor is. I haven't swam in this current. And like, seeing myself kind of in that like story and picture gave me so much more perspective on like looking at myself through a lens of compassion and empathy. Like, I am doing my best just to keep swimming and like, that's enough, you know. And eventually,

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

like everything that you continue to come back to in practice, like, if it is for you, that it gets easier or, you know, you get stronger. Maybe it doesn't get easier, but you get stronger. You learn how to navigate it better. And so like, that's what it is. Like, that's what like, like life

Omar:

Permission.

Jack B:

is. Yeah,

Omar:

that's what life

Jack B:

It's

Omar:

is.

Jack B:

like,

Omar:

Amen.

Jack B:

just be where you are.

Omar:

The reason, the reason why I love that so much is because it looks at medication, not through the lens of it's a zero sum game, meaning you either you need it and that's it, or you have to stay away from it. I love this idea of like, I needed it at the time, and it was really helpful at the time. And then I was ready to try without and to see, to see if I could do without. And that's often how I talk about medication to clients who are so afraid of even trying it. And I understand why is because a lot of the conversation when it comes to medication is like, well, this is a lifelong thing and that's it. And for some people it

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

is. And that's wonderful if that's helpful for them. And for other folks, it isn't. And that's also wonderful. And I love this idea of giving yourself permission to just be in the process. Give yourself permission to figure it out, essentially.

Jack B:

Totally.

Omar:

To just like figure it out and to understand and to wonder and to question. And that's why I love that tidbit of advice, that tidbit of advice. I think that could be helpful for so many instances that have nothing to do with

Jack B:

I was going to

Omar:

medication.

Jack B:

say, yeah, to yeah. Just I, and a part of my story is recovery from a lot of things. We all

Omar:

Mm hmm.

Jack B:

are. Mm

Omar:

hmm.

Jack B:

And

Omar:

Mm hmm.

Jack B:

substances and all of that. It's like at some point in the journey of like, I'm five years sober from weed. I'm like.

Omar:

Congratulations.

Jack B:

Thank you. I've like gone kind of in and out. My relationship with alcohol has been an interesting one, but I'm currently

Omar:

Hmm.

Jack B:

sober from that. And, I've, again, like dealt with a lot, like a very complicated, but beautiful relationship with. Food and my body and all of that.

Omar:

Mm

Jack B:

And

Omar:

hmm.

Jack B:

every single moment in that kind of. There's been like a choice, a decision I had to make that took me a long time to get to. Courage

Omar:

Sure.

Jack B:

to be like, okay, I'm not going to do this anymore. And

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

then I'm back in like the open water and I'm

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

thinking it's hard and like, you know, but we're doing

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

it.

Omar:

We're doing it. Yeah. And it's okay. And it's okay that if it's okay, if it's clunky, it's okay. If it's a little wonky,

Jack B:

And that's

Omar:

you

Jack B:

what.

Omar:

know, you're in the.

Jack B:

I will.

Omar:

Water

Jack B:

I'll

Omar:

splat.

Jack B:

vulnerably say that's where I feel like I'm at with breath work right now. Like, I feel

Omar:

Mm

Jack B:

so

Omar:

hmm.

Jack B:

lucky. Like having this moment really shows how much I've grown. Like, this has been such a

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

cool kind of like pause for me to reflect and be like, wow. Like, I would have never thought that like, I would have an opportunity to talk about breath work on a podcast with someone like yourself and like know that there could be people listening to this. There will be.

Omar:

There

Jack B:

Listen,

Omar:

will be.

Jack B:

hopefully

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

we'll benefit from something that is said. And I'm like, not slowing down. I'm not looking back. But I'm also like, I don't know what I'm doing. It's

Omar:

Right.

Jack B:

like, I just want more people to breathe.

Omar:

Yeah.

Jack B:

Following that thread. And I'm like, that's enough.

Omar:

That's, uh, that- 100%, that's enough. I just want people to breathe. That's, like, so lovely and wholesome and earnest, and we need more of that now, more than ever. So I really appreciate that. Thank you so much. Jack, so where can folks find you if they wanted to follow along and learn a little bit more about breathwork from you, or if they wanted to reach out to you directly and maybe get some, I don't know, tips or some training? Where can folks find

Jack B:

My

Omar:

you?

Jack B:

address is,

Omar:

My social security number is.

Jack B:

um, take it, take it, um. No, but I honestly am most active on Instagram, and my username or whatever, my handle.

Omar:

Your handle. username. How, how AOL

Jack B:

It's very AOL,

Omar:

of you,

Jack B:

it's

Omar:

how-

Jack B:

also very, like, corporate.

Omar:

Yeah, oh, true.

Jack B:

Username. Um, it's Jack, P, as in Patrick, or Papa. Bauer, B-A-U-E-R.

Omar:

On Instagram, wonderful. I'm so excited for you to be on this journey. I, I, you, you mentioned earlier, you completed the 200-hour, um, course. And, like, we're just getting started, baby. That's, like, there's just more hours to come. I'm so excited for you to reach, like, like, one day. I, I want to

Jack B:

Yeah.

Omar:

hear from you. Okay, wait. You have to make me a promise. I want to hear from you when you've, um, done a thousand

Jack B:

Okay,

Omar:

hours.

Jack B:

all right.

Omar:

I, I just, I want to hear, actually, maybe I'll bring you back on.

Jack B:

Oh, my God.

Omar:

Actually.

Jack B:

Okay. Oh. Very

Omar:

That's what

Jack B:

goal-oriented,

Omar:

we'll do.

Jack B:

so.

Omar:

Okay, so this is, like, scratching that itch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, I love that idea. Yeah, when you've, when you've reached a thousand hours, we'll talk, and we'll have you on. Um, because, yeah, because I'm just, like, so excited

Jack B:

Oh.

Omar:

to see, like, where you go with this, and, and how many people you're going to get to help is going to be so, it's, it's going to be amazing. I'm so excited for you. Oh, thank you so, so much. And for coming on. All right, folks, as you know, I am a therapist, but this podcast is no substitute for good old fashioned therapy. So take what's useful, leave the rest, and don't forget, therapy makes you hotter. Bye.