07 - Emma Jones on Naturopathy, Ancestral Healing & the Wisdom Phase

In this soulful episode, I'm joined by Emma Jones, founder of the School of Naturopathic Nutrition and a practising naturopath since 1996. Emma’s approach is beautifully multidimensional, blending nutrition, foraging, medical astrology, spiritual dowsing, and family constellations into a deep system of healing and self-discovery.

We talk about what naturopathy really means, how lunar cycles and planetary alignments influence the body, and why working with wild food and seasonal rhythms is a powerful act of self-reconnection.

Emma also shares her passion for supporting women through hormonal changes, perimenopause, and the so-called “wisdom phase”, offering practical insight into adrenal health, liver cleansing, and natural hormone support.

This one’s for anyone feeling the call to heal, to align, and to live more intuitively with nature, spirit, and self.

We cover:

• What makes Emma’s naturopathic approach so unique
• The link between medical astrology and physical healing
• Family constellations, ancestral imprints, and soul maps
• The importance of the liver in hormone balance
• Menopause, progesterone, and reclaiming feminine power
• How illness can become the turning point to soul alignment

Find out more about Emma and her work at:
schoolofnaturopathicnutrition.com

Transcript

so today we have Emma, the founder of the Naturopathic School, and she's been working as a naturopath since 1996. That's right, isn't it Emma? That's right, yeah. 

I was like really conscious to get the dates right then, every time somebody gives me like a title that's a mouthful, I'm like right, I need to get this right. Yeah, you got it perfect. Brilliant. 

So obviously we've been having a chat and I know that what you do is like an umbrella term for all your work, but are you okay to explain to people like what is naturopathy? Yes, of course, yes. So naturopathic medicine is ancient medicine and really when we're thinking about this approach it's nature, nature cure. So anything that really comes into the umbrella of what do we naturally feel is suitable to heal the body. 

So it's a combination of diet, herbal medicine, foraging, looking at homeopathy, as well as naturopathic techniques. So the philosophy is cleanse before we rebuild. So we're looking at the physical body, but also the emotional body and mental body and spiritual body. 

So it's the connection with the universe and the cosmos. So with this approach, we look at also medical astrology where we introduce plants during certain astrological phases, as well as cleansing cycles. For example, cleansing on the new moon is more effective in comparison to the full moon when the body's absorbing nutrients. 

So there are cleansing phases, rebuilding phases, the planets have an influence, the sun, the moon has an influence. So we're tapping into the bigger picture, the bigger planetary alignments, and then seeing that reflected within the body. So it's a system really that I believe that we all know deep down through our ancestors. 

And what I do is I teach people to become reconnected to it so they can actually then take control of their own healing journey and become their own healer and become their own prescriber, teacher, etc. So it's a self empowerment journey. And that's where I started with the naturopathic work. 

When I came into the work, I was on a different path at the time. And I believe that my body gave me the signals in order to tell me that actually I needed a redirection. So I became ill. 

And that's how I became connected to the naturopathy. I found my naturopathic teacher at that point and I then trained. And that completely changed my life and took me on a different journey, which was really my true purpose. 

So I really, really what people do when they come to me for the training, they start with thinking that they want a qualification or they want an accredited course, but actually they realise within the first year they're on, they've rebooted themselves into a connection to their soul alignment. Because of the natural principles, it helps people discover who they are and actually their sole purpose. It's amazing because I've never heard anybody explain naturopathy how you've explained it. 

Or maybe is it that, you know, when people work in naturopathic medicine, does everybody have this vast approach to it, you know, looking at their ancestral lineage, the astrological perspectives and like the sun and moon and things like that. Does everybody look at it from that perspective or do some other practitioners condense it down a little bit more? Yeah, I believe that, yes, they do condense it down. And I think this approach is very unique to the school where I trained. 

And I believe that, you know, because I'm so interested in medical astrology and the person who taught me, which is a lady called Barbara Wren, and she wrote the book Cellular Awakening. So her naturopathy style is so unique in the UK. And really, actually, my school is the only school ongoing that's taken on her work and carried it on.

So it is a very unique approach and you won't find it anywhere else. That's an achievement though, to take on that very unique standpoint of how you're working in that work. Well, it's ancient knowledge. 

I mean, Barbara's work, you know, taught me that, you know, the information is there within the cosmos and all we need to do is align with it. So we're all channeling this information. And what my teacher did with Cellular Awakening, she basically packaged it in a way that allowed other people then to relearn it. 

I spent a long time working with her. And then therefore, when she did retire, I took on her work and carried it forward. And my students, of course, when they qualify or when they go out there and share, they're sharing this unique philosophy.

So it is very multidimensional. And I've brought in other things which are quite unique as well, such as dowsing, family constellation, ancestral work, as you shared, Danielle. So it's a unique package where we bring Eastern and Western medicine together. 

So I invade with the Celtic, what I call Celtic wisdom, as well as Chinese medicine. So it's a combination approach that I've learned through my own journey over the years through various trainings and working on my own development. I love the approach. 

And it always is everything that you said, I've got like a million questions because it's all been piquing my interest as you've been talking. And you work very blendedly how I work. And I love that approach because you're literally picking all the best kind of modalities and the things that you know, work and kind of packaging it together, right? So you get like the best outcome for the individual. 

So some of the things that you were talking about is foraging. I've never heard another naturopath say that they would go out and forage or talking about foraging. Yeah, so it's part of really real connection.

So when we're growing our own food on forage or finding wild food, it's the greatest available source of energy. And it's the best way of plugging back into the earth rhythms, the universal patterns. So when we drink, for example, spring water, and we pick wild food, it has that potential of depending on where you picked it, the energies within that land, and therefore the codes are there, the energetic codes that we need in order to heal. 

So within there's nothing stronger than we can do really to heal ourselves is actually to tap into the ancient plants, which are untouched, because there's so much now in the supermarkets, which is potentially genetically modified and basically interferes with our natural path. So if we were to go out and notice which plants were attracted to, this is what the ancients would have done, they would have really been just connected to the plants and then experimented with them. Whereas we've lost that connection sort of on quite a big level, really. 

And it's only now we're starting to rediscover, yes, we can actually go out and pick our own wild food and actually really benefit from that. So I'm obviously, I think you know that I'm Pagan as well. So when you're talking about the connection to the land and the codes, I'm like, of course, it makes perfect sense. 

But I honestly don't know anybody who, from a personal perspective, even who's Pagan or, you know, whatever kind of works they do with the land and things like that, and the connection, has talked about going out foraging to connect with the codes and like, you know, the energetic points of the land. So again, it's like, it's so unique. And I love how you've explained it and why you're doing it.

In your course, do you actually teach other people to go out and learn how to safely forage and things like that as well? Because I know a lot of people when they think about foraging, they're like, I'm going to eat something that's going to poison me or that they're almost like, what can you eat and what can't you eat? You absolutely need to know what you're eating for sure. And that's, that's what I do. I share, you also have a, like a master forager on the course who actually teaches people. 

She's been doing it from, from birth, really. Her mother grew up on land and they've just eaten forage food. So basically, it's there in a safe way to know how to discover the plants and which ones are just so available all year round. 

And I think that this is something that we, it dissolves fear as well, because people are so worried about the food industry and they're worried, you know, if there's a food shortage and that sort of thing. I usually say, if there's land, there'll be fine. You know, you've, you just, there's so much we can do ourselves from sprouting our own foods in our own kitchen, growing herbs to driving out somewhere and just seeing what's available and, and really making that happen for ourselves. 

It just takes away fear because we are taking our power back then, aren't we? And, and also there's a huge benefit of actually becoming reconnected with the bigger picture and our own spiritual connection. Like you say, I think there's a lot of fear at the minute and, and all that kind of fear plays into the disempowerment of people, don't it? So even just from one of the tiny branches of what you're doing, I don't mean it's small, it plays such a big part, but in the kind of the structure of how you probably work with people, it's one element that is just so important. And I imagine that each element then will kind of enhance the other. 

So what I mean by that is you talk about medical astrology, and again, not many people talk about medical astrology. That's right. And I think when the way I like to teach it is to really make it very available, it can be quite complex. 

So when people talk about medical astrology, and they don't tie it into naturopathy, it can feel like it's out of reach. So one example is, you know, when the full moon lands in a particular sign, within these astrological phases, it governs a certain part of the body. So we were all born at different phases. 

And for example, my moon is in Taurus. So when the moon is in Taurus, I do work on my throat and my communication. And it's to do with thyroid. 

So the thyroid is, and the throat is ruled by Taurus. So whenever we have certain alignments, for example, eclipses, the next new moon coming up, for example, it's a time to look at the astrological meaning of that and how it impacts the physical body. So what the moon is in actually impacts the physical. 

So that then tells us a little bit about where our weak spots are or where our strengths are. So if I weren't working on myself healthily, my throat was a real issue in the past before I came into this work, I used to have things like tonsillitis, issues with glandular issues, thyroid. So it actually, that allows you to flip it on its head and sort of say, okay, if I focus here, especially during those lunar cycles, when the moon is in Taurus, I can heal that. 

And that's what led me to, you know, doing a lot of teaching and sharing. So using my voice in a positive way, rather than, you know, feeling those imbalances. So if we pinpoint certain phases of the moon and do healing on that particular organ, it has a more profound effect than it would do any other time of the month. 

So moon in Cancer rules the liver. So if we were to do compresses, for example, one of the techniques in this approach is castor oil compresses to the liver. If we look up when the moon is in Cancer, and we phase it during the waning to new moon phase, we will have a profound healing on the liver in comparison to any other phase.

Well, that's so interesting, because I've literally, I was interviewing a lady, and she was like, I'll just do your astrology for you. And I was like, well, I thought I knew this stuff. I didn't because there's just so much to know. 

I'm not an astrologer by any means or anything like that, just the basics. And I do remember, and from you speaking, I was like, gosh, there's like a lot more to it. And it's so interesting, because it really does pinpoint things that are going on for you in your life as well. 

But when you've talked about it from the medical aspect, I actually knew probably like scratching the surface level knowledge in terms of how the moon can influence the body. But I didn't know in detail how you just said, you know, as in terms of like working with the moon phases and where it will affect the body and like whether it's just some moon rising signs and things like that. Fascinating. 

So I know you've said if your moon was in cancer, you said, didn't you, it might affect the liver and the liver, cold compresses and things like that. And what effects have you or what things have you seen happen? So if you've had something that you've been working with, and they've had a certain ailment, and what effects have you seen happen and kind of what the sign of being in this is just maybe nausea? Yes, around the liver, you mean? Yeah, yeah. So if someone has liver imbalances, it will first of all show itself in the eyes, the eyes are the opening to the liver. 

So sometimes your eyes will feel less clear, or they may look less clear, you know, blurred, etc, or, you know, sort of red, etc. So I think that's the first point of call of how you're feeling on an eyesight level. But also the mood, the mood is really got governs the liver. 

So the liver when we're when we're congested in the liver, we feel irritable. And there's an imbalance and we have a highs and lows rather than an even balance. And one of the dominant emotions when the liver is congested is anger. 

So anger is okay to express, but when it's directed, you know, externally in the wrong way, and can be, you know, creating balances, then there's something going on on a deeper level in the liver energy. And then we have the practical things like gallstones, liver stones, inability to digest fat, feeling nausea. Sometimes when people gain belly fat, it's the liver as well. 

So there's a lot there that we can do generally, globally, you know, individually, to support the liver, you know, drinking your good quality water every day, putting lemon in your water, having sour foods, so things like cider vinegar, lemon, lemon and lime in water, making sure we're having enough greens. And then of course, taking out foods that maybe congest the liver. But one extra step would be to actually look at plants that are growing seasonally within the spring and summer, which spring is the liver season.

And pick them dandelions, for example, make a tea, make a dandelion coffee, the leaves through the juicer, eat the leaves and salads. If you can't do that, do a tincture. So we're tuning into what's growing seasonally around us when it grows around us within the season that it's relevant. 

So in the Chinese system, the liver is the season of spring. And so in the UK, spring is March 21st to June 21st. We're just in that season now, Dania, where we're having to do a little bit more work on the liver. 

So if we were to choose cancerian moons phases to support the liver with the compresses or to take the herbs, that's going to be better than ever than, you know, doing any other time of the year. So these are the times where some of my people I'm working with do liver cleanses and do deeper work on the liver. And the idea is you then stay well for the whole of the year ahead.

The spring is like a really important time naturopathically. It's fascinating, you know, the level of depth that you look at every angle from when you're kind of supporting somebody. It's amazing. 

In terms of like the family constellations and things like that, how do you work with the family constellations? Yeah, so that's more one to one. So some people do family constellation work in group work. The one to one work is looking at, first of all, where there's a breakdown of what I describe as love within the connections in the family. 

So the first step is to do a short interview of where the gaps are. For example, if there was a person who had not connected with their father, for example, a lost father along the way, they can really break down the connections between that person's relationship with men moving forward. So that's just one example.

So I might come in and say, I feel like my relationships aren't working. And usually in the family history, if it's not in the last generation or it would be the one before it, there'll be a breakdown with the father energy. And so in the constellation work, we use objects as symbols for the people who were lost or who had disconnected, I guess, from the family field. 

And we have conversations as if that we're actually there with them. So it's a dialogue that goes on with the pieces. So it could be crystals you could use or stones. 

And I usually say to people, it's how children play when children are playing. And when I watch my own children, they get their toys and animals or dolls out and they have dialogues with things that are expressing things that are going on in their life in order to heal. They do that naturally.

And I think what we're doing is re-tapping into something that's very ancient, where again, we're back in the control seat of actually, even if we're not in touch with that lost person or that disconnect, we can still communicate via, even if they've passed, even if they've gone to the spiritual world, we can still heal those aspects of us. So the object of the exercise really is to bring back the connection, the love, so that the flow happens in the family again, and therefore things don't get carried on to the next generation. Yeah. 

So how, you know, looking at the family constellations, how do you map that out? How does that work? Yeah. So if I was working with you today, we would talk about what you'd like to achieve. And then we always start at the beginning, which is to look at your parents and both sides of grandparents. 

So if we were to work today on camera, you would have in front of you a piece, an object, which would represent you, one for your mum and dad, one for both sides of the family. And then we simply dialogue. So you could do it entirely by yourself. 

You could place your hand on each object and feel into what's coming out, what's being, trying to be expressed. Some people use photos. So I worked with someone the other day on Zoom, and she had her photos in front of her, of the family. 

And basically you feel through what each person wants to share. And you're tapping into the psychic field, basically, the energetic field. And the idea there is that everything we need to know is in the energy field. 

So everyone carries that information. And if the person doesn't feel they want to do it themselves, I do it for them. So I step in and verbalise through channelling the field, the thought field, which allows people then to gain information on, you know, what's next. 

So one fantastic story was a lady who wanted to find her father. And she doesn't mind, wouldn't mind me sharing this because she was so ecstatic afterwards that she, she'd never known her own father and the family had hidden the fact that she was adopted. But she wanted, she had this deep feeling, she just wanted to figure out was he still alive and possibly could she meet him? She had one photo of an auntie, which we brought into the constellation. 

And when we stepped into that thought field, we knew that this auntie who's still alive, was still alive, basically knew who her real father was. So in the constellation, we found that information. So she then went to visit this aunt who told her who he was. 

And then she looked him up and she did get to meet him. And that was the revelation and that all came through a constellation. And so all she had was one photo of one member of the family, but she was the missing link to finding out of, you know, who, who her real father was. 

So that was quite powerful. And it's very, very surprising what comes up in a constellation. In my own journey, when I did my constellation training, I found so much healing occurred. 

That was very powerful. I've never heard anybody do that. And I've heard them do different things, like it's it's a totally, totally different field. 

And I had a conversation with another medium who finds missing people. And he'll always say the family is the link, anybody, especially like a mother link. And he will usually go to the mother or sibling and say, what do you believe? And he can usually find the link through the energy field of the same DNA and find the people there.

So it's exactly the same thing, isn't it? It's the same thing, but for a different purpose, which is fascinating. Yeah, and different wording. The, the, the person who sort of brought the family constellation work to the West had spent many years with the Aborigine tribes and noticed that in tribal energy, that they healed in groups in this way. 

So they would just sit with each other, one person might have a problem, and they would just share their thoughts in the same way as you just shared, really. And through that the healing would happen just by the person observing what the family had to say and felt about that particular issue. Yeah, it's honestly, it's fascinating, because everything that you're describing, I'm like, not many people do, and it's very different, even if they do just do an aspect of it. 

It reminds me of something, the family constellation work, a little bit similar, where I've done shamanic work, and we've done the Circle of Foxes. I don't know if you've heard of that. Yeah, yeah, it's quite similar.

Yeah, it's not a family member mirroring back, but it's somebody, you know, a person representing an aspect of your being in it, from each direction, and kind of mirroring things back to you as well. So it's fascinating work. And I must admit, when I spoke to you first of all, I was like, what is this? But until you explain it, I'm like, I understand an element of it, but you do it very differently. 

And it's very unique the way that you blend everything together, which I love. And spiritual dowsing, how do you do spiritual dowsing? How does that go with naturopathy? Yeah, so it's called spiritual reset therapy, or spiritual response therapy. And there are charts on every aspect of our being. 

So we can look at past lives, we can look at supplement charts, flower remedy charts. So we start off by basically as a form of channeling, again, really tapping in from soul to soul. So if I was working with you today, I'm really gathering information that you already know, and I'm just reflecting it back. 

So there's a protocol at the beginning where I connect, I ask for the highest source of information, and asking permission as well. So beforehand, to make sure the person's okay to experience the dowsing. And then the charts that it's like a map, it tells me everything. 

So at the beginning, we look at, okay, what's the most important thing I would need to know about Danielle today? And we, I ask, you know, is it physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, and the charts then give me the information. So it's like a protocol, really, that's a map, a bit like you would do with tarot, or people who do readings, the charts are a map of that information. So it, when I'm working off chart, you can dowse all sorts. 

So when I do a prescription for someone, I always check through dowsing, even if it's not in front of the person, just double checking, is it the right thing? What's the dosage? Which brands do they need? So it becomes very intuitive then. So the logical prescription gets written, and then I back it up, then just to double check that they actually, it is the right thing, and they are taking the right measure of things. Yeah, I love that as well. 

It's a little bit like, when you're talking about maps, we, again, like, when we, when we read, we'll have a bit of a map and things like that. And then when we, shamanic journeys, sometimes we'll, we will go into trance, and I'll see your soul map and say, what is the most important aspect of like the past life element or of this going on? And the soul map directs us and points us with our guides. It's a little bit similar. 

And then when you were saying about the intuitive prescriptions, obviously, I know you're doing it where you've got the, you've done it off the charts or whatever, and then you've got the actual prescription, but then you've got the intuitive checking. I will get envisions, as you're talking to me, like, when I do psychic surgery, and I'm like, show me what's, and I can see inside the body, I'll get told things. It sounds like it's very similar in different, in different fields, but very different in a way. 

Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. We're trying to achieve the same thing, aren't we? But with different tools, absolutely. And that's the beauty is that we're individuals helping to help each other heal. 

And basically, it's the same information coming through in different ways. So it's unique to us so that we can feel enthusiastic about sharing it. Yeah, it's amazing. 

So when you typically work with somebody, what, what is the difference in sessions that you offer all the types of work that you do? Yeah, so when people get in touch initially, they might have a one to one. So I'd have the personal history sent to me beforehand. And then we'd have an hour over Zoom, or we could meet at the clinic. 

And that initial session is to look at, you know, where people need to go from there. So the history, the full history really gives an idea of what the map needs to be moving forward. So I usually start off with naturopathy, then weave in the dowsing, sometimes family constellation work. 

So typically, people might do five sessions with me with a focus on what they'd like to achieve. I spent a lot of time with women working with hormones. I do hormone support. 

I do hormone courses. That's quite an area of passion. And I also have had three children myself. 

So pregnancy, birthing, and beyond breastfeeding, etc, naturally. So I had my babies all at home, naturally, completely outside of the medical system. So I feel very passionate about especially women who have children later as well, because I was 40 having my first. 

So I had all three children in my 40s. That really gave me another feeling of actually what self empowerment again, around women, how women actually sometimes don't recover themselves after birthing. And because of trauma, etc, or they have difficulty with making that transition. 

So I feel that for me right now, the area that I really love to work with is women's health and generally empowering women. But I think, you know, overall, over the years, I've had a long phase of working as a naturopath. I've worked with all sorts of things over the years. 

And I feel that what's interesting is who I attract in right now is women who really are stepping into that divine feminine, that feeling of they want to be fully expressed in the world. And they, women are, I feel coming into their own at the phase we're at. Yeah, absolutely. 

Yeah. Yeah, I feel like that. I feel like I resonate with a lot of what you're saying. 

So I had my third baby when I was 40. Brilliant. And I know that you're looking to like different types of health, just I am going to kind of reach out to you about some health things. 

But for me, I also got into perimenopause as well. So the women's health thing, I think, unless you're experienced certain things, you don't really fully understand the depths that it takes you or the aspects of like how it can change the biology and things like that. And I've been shocked on my own personal journey with menopause. 

I'm like, we're not, we are not really set up and equipped. We're not really given all the tools that we need to deal with it. And it's not actually recognised. 

I don't think women's health at the minute is a big agenda. And I've noticed that actually, it's not very much out there in terms of support, you know, HRT treatment is very blanket intake, like three doses. And I mean, I'm lucky that I've actually, before I actually got to find you, I found some depth. 

And the bioidentical hormones and like, even like testosterone and things that we're lacking in the DHEA on the NHS route, I would have never got on an even keel. Because I needed now like, how can we like have such a disservice to women that actually we're not, we're not going to give them what they need, or we're not even going to go down the holistic natural route to say, support your immune system, you know, support your joints, do this for your body, balance hormones very naturally. And everything you've kind of got to find yourself. 

But I think when you're in the depths of menopause, or anything hormonal, especially, or you're a momo, you're transitioning from being a momo, you're transitioning to menopause, you aren't always got the mental capacity to be able to just go out and source everything. So I think you won't got that capacity, that resilience, obviously, the work that you're doing, I think is just massively needed for women, especially at this moment in time. Absolutely. 

And I think that you can't, you know, we underestimate it, we don't realize until we're in it, as you said, I believe, really, people need to prepare from the age of 40, menopause might be 10 years later, but they actually prepare seven to 10 years in advance by taking care of themselves, really preparing by staying doing daily habits that are, you know, supporting the hormones and have that knowledge. Because really, we were told a lot about, you know, go to get the doc, get the doctor's prescription. And, you know, that's medicalizing it. 

And actually, what I love to do with people is actually take it into a place of, it's a passage to power, it's the third phase of life. So it's a time where we're at our greatest point of wisdom. And we should be at that point. 

But I think the conspiracy is that the information isn't there collectively for everyone to actually harness that. So they end up feeling very disempowered, lost and considered past it, which I think is the opposite of how we're meant to feel. You know, peri post menopause, I love seeing women when they've traveled through that process when they come out the other end, and they are so empowered, because they're in that wonderful third phase of wisdom. 

And I look just like you, Danielle, when I had my third baby, I really thought everything that I'd been doing previously just wasn't working at the end of having three. And I was because of having my daughter later, and I sort of late 40s, I hit a wall with, you know, symptoms. Yeah, that's how I did a deep dive into the menopausal journey. 

I was in perimenopause, really, but I hadn't realized because I just thought everything I was doing would just keep me going. I did a deep dive into progesterone therapy. And it was just so great, because I felt after doing progesterone, bioidentical progesterone cream through plants, natural naturals, it totally changed me. 

I felt like I was going back into pre children's and 30s energetically. And it gave me a new lease of life. So this is where why I why I feel so passionate about hormone support for women, because it totally changed me. 

And I've been practicing at shops for years, but I didn't know how important progesterone was. There's so much of an emphasis on oestrogen in the field, the medical field. And as you said, that blanket prescription, progesterone therapy through natural plants and particularly supporting your body with a lifestyle that that is going to enhance that makes a huge difference. 

And really noticing actually the empowerment journey, you know, what is it that we need to learn from how we're feeling during the perimenopause, even just describing it as perimenopause kind of disempowers, it's actually the wisdom phase. So we should probably, you know, relabel it as the wisdom phase, rather than perimenopause or menopause. Yeah.

I think I'm going to tell you that now that now I'm like, I'm not in perimenopause, it's a wisdom phase. But yeah, as you know, I've met so many women who are so disempowered. And I'm seeing loads of women naturally just come for sessions and for different things. 

But I'm seeing a lot of women in menopause who I'm just meeting on the same journey, or like even my friends, and they're so disempowered because of like, the lack of progesterone, leading to feeling anxious, not self assured, you look in the mirror, you don't recognise yourself, your body's changing, you're not, you're not, you felt very imbalanced, and you got to feeling very unbalanced. And even things like when you say supporting health. I mean, I found on a lot of women that I've spoken to found they can't eat certain foods, alcohol is like a big no, no, like your body just reacts in different ways to things. 

And it's almost like it doesn't tolerate certain things. And I eat quite healthy. So it has a big effect on it, even in terms of what we're ingesting.

It really does. And it's all about the liver in perimenopause and menopause, because if our periods are slowing down, we're not having that natural cleanse every month. So the liver then has more work to do. 

And if if a lady is having heavy bleeds, it would be really relatable, again, to the liver, the liver is having to offload some of that toxicity out through the body in order to keep that balance within the hormones. So the liver controls all the hormones. And so liver work, again, we'll come back to that really. 

And so many women often go lower on the carbohydrates, especially gluten, to be able to manage that process, increasing doing fasting and juicing, etc. So we do need to do more whilst we make that transition. And then the body adapts.

So I usually say adrenal health is very important as well. So if women are overdoing it, whereas the ovaries start to slow down on hormone production, the adrenal glands have to take over. But if you're already overdoing it, and for many women burnt out, they just won't take over that job. 

And that's where we go into that slump. Yeah. And adrenals is where all of us need to work at this phase. 

And it actually is the same for men. But yet we don't address you know, there is a name term for male menopause. It's called andropause. 

And, you know, men are even more behind on recognising what they need. Because my partner, and I know there's a male that men do go through it. When I was a clinician, I used to work in clinic with GP and a psychotherapist. 

And yes, remember, I mean, it was probably 15 years ago. And I don't feel like it was heavily recognised, but my mum was convinced he was in male menopause. And I was like, I agree with him.

So I know it exists. But my partner is called Andrew, and he's 45 now. And he was jokingly saying, I'm in male menopause. 

And he said, andropause, or like, he's going to be listening to this thinking, yeah, it's actually there. But I do believe that it is for men. And again, probably, as women, we don't feel like the menopause is supported, or it's not like given enough recognition of we need a lot of support, or we need different things to transition us through those phases. 

But alternatively, it's probably not even very recognised still for men really, is there? That's right, exactly. And actually, men are not sort of aware that actually could be a phase. So if they crave alcohol, for example, they're suddenly feeling depressed or emotionally burnt out. 

They're probably taught just to ignore it most of the time in society or to do you know, if you did go to the GP would be antidepressants. And actually, they need to work on the testosterone phases, as women as progesterone, of course, and some testosterone for men, you know, to when testosterone drops, it can be really quite a shock to the system. And there are some amazing plants that boost testosterone.

And so again, it's looking at okay, there's so much availability there now of information, choosing the right plant for the person and self empowerment, knowing they can solve it. And that's first of all, recognising there's an issue. What do you think the main symptoms of obviously the menopause but for men would be just if there's men that listen to this? That's right. 

So fatigue, craving, so craving sugar and alcohol, feeling depressed, so feeling suddenly they haven't got that home for that energy that they had before. Low libido, often when testosterone is going down dopamine will be the person might start to feel more dopamine addictive. So make taking bigger risks, unusual behaviour sometimes in some men, maybe overspending, overeating, etc. 

It does affect personality because dopamine and testosterone are seesawing. So if testosterone goes down, dopamine will need a kick to bring them back into action. So they'll go for like, high intensity exercise sometimes or you know, we hear stories that we were people have splashed out on a sports car or buy something extraordinary expensive, you know, to give them that boost that high.

Of course, dopamine is temporary. It's the it's the chasing hormone. We could it's the stimulant. 

So, you know, dopamine is when we get addicted to things, whereas testosterone for men smooth things out and gives them that even temperament and that confidence, actually. So confidence is a big part of having good levels of testosterone. So obviously, if there's any men that do listen to this, they can come and have sessions as well.

That's right. Yeah, absolutely. And top tips would be to really, again, address hydration, look at reducing glutinous carbohydrates or, you know, the refined carbohydrates, increasing protein that helps the adrenal glands. 

And then there are some amazing herbs, which boost testosterone, one of them being tribulus. Tribulus is a really great safe herb for boosting testosterone. Something called Damiana, Damiana.

Yeah, they're brilliant. They work really, really well naturally. And they help guys and women to feel confidence and focus again at these phases. 

Yeah. Well, that's amazing. You know, right at the start, you said that you got you kind of came onto this journey, didn't you? That you've healed your own health. 

How did that? How did that come about? Yeah, so I when before this work, I originally trained as a teacher and totally crashed before I even got into my career, actually, because I'd actually not been taught how to self care so naturopathically and, you know, sort of health wise, I was I was on a journey where I felt I didn't have the right knowledge to be able to balance myself. So it was interesting. So at that point in my life, I had chronic fatigue, I had loads of allergies. 

I'd had a history in my 20s of eating disorders. So I the time I got to sort of 23, I was really struggling. Yeah. 

And actually, it was the best thing that could have happened to me, because through that journey through actually exhausting the medical profession, they didn't have any answers for me at the time. At that point in in my life, chronic fatigue was considered a psychological disease. It wasn't considered a physical disease as it is these days, you know, relatable to things like glandular fever, etc. 

So that really was interesting because the medics couldn't do anything. So that set me on a journey of searching. And it was by chance that I was given my naturopathic teachers details on a train. 

So a lady gave me a business card and she said, go to this lady. And I took a journey, went to see her. She treated me naturopathic in the way that I work with my clients. 

And it changed my life so much within a short space of time that I decided to study naturopathy. So that was the flipping energy. So it was like a before and after really walking through a door and coming out a new person. 

And I think that I hadn't really experienced good health until I came across this work. So for me, it was a self-empowerment journey of really wanting to share this with others. And so I've done that for the last 25 years, just really shared this information. 

And it's been my soul path, really, and still is. Yeah. It sounds like it's been life changing. 

And in terms of your, your health, is it being continually balanced through, you know, obviously making sure that you're eating the right things, you know, you're doing all the things that we spoke about? Yes, absolutely. Eating and living the philosophy, really. And being, and I always say to people, I always feel like I'm getting younger as I get older. 

I really believe like miracles happen. When I was ill in my 20s, I was told that I wouldn't have children, that actually I'd have chronic fatigue forever, because there was no medical answer. And I went on to have children in my 40s. 

I feel great. I've never had what they describe as a relapse, you know. So I think that it's just find part of healing, I believe, is actually finding your soul path. 

And I think so many people are off track for all sorts of reasons. They need a reboot, they really need to reconnect with this information to actually find out who they are again, to be able to develop spiritually. So I think for me, that was an amazing thing that could have happened to me, because I wouldn't have found this work otherwise, you know.

It's amazing, you know, the core of like, the work that I like to do is like, helping people get onto the soul path. And I think it's a funny thing, you know, how like, you had the chance encounter of like meeting somebody who passed that information on and it was probably like very universe spirit led, wanting to bring it to you and just align everything for you. And sometimes we can dead easily like miss them things, or we can put it to one side and then come back to it. 

But by being very intuitively led, it's kind of led you back onto your path on it and your soul path and obviously being like massively life changing for you, which is amazing. Yeah, we're always being supported, aren't we? If we tap in spiritually, and the guidance is there, as you said, we're not always seeing it straight away. But the there'll be messages regularly that come through for the person. 

And when people find me, they usually, you know, they know they've been recommended, or they they find me through obscure ways, really, because they usually come because they're spiritually directed. Right? So it's we all attract the right people, don't we at the right times. And that's so great to be able to trust in that way. 

Because then we know that nothing is a mistake. Nothing is a problem. Everything is is led by on a spiritual level.

Yeah, I love that one. Just you kind of you don't have to force anything. And like you say, everybody's led towards joy, or you're led towards something. 

And it's like that proximity, that inner knowing and that faith actually, the right things will come and like wherever you need to direct your life, it'll be kind of it'll be led. It's there for you. We just need to surrender. 

Yeah. It's hard to get to do that, to get in balance and completely surrender. And I mean, there's a lot of times I have to check in and I'm like, right, stop what you're doing just completely don't do this. 

If it's not aligned, and just surrender and things will come in at all ways. So it's it's surrendering. Absolutely. 

Sometimes we have to get to that point of being pushed to the extreme. I think it's interesting the word disease, if we were to break it down, dis ease, disharmony. And so when there's imbalance and disease in the body, it's the body communicating with us and telling us we're off track. 

And it's a, it's a, it's a way of actually helping to realign us. So when I was taught naturopathy, my teacher used to say, the body's always working for us, it's never working against us. Because some people when they become very out of balance, they're really annoyed, you know, they feel like, why did this happen to me? And actually, if we frame it in that way, that is the body trying to communicate, we just need to listen, it actually helps us to really shift energy. 

And I think that's an important factor, we become ill, when there's something to hear, there's something to really take heed of, and to really be able to flip that energy into positive, positive experience and reframe it. It's a really good way to look at it, to stop for people to stop and think, right, what is the body trying to communicate with me? Because then there's no separation, sometimes people think, oh, you know, like they get, like you said, they get a bit annoyed, like my body's doing this, or I know that, but actually, they are the body, it's a whole system, isn't it? But there's that disconnect. And like, almost like the body's not working for me. 

And you know, like, it's no connection to it and thinking, right, stop, what is it showing there? It's like, just with the feelings that I rose out of the pointless to things all the time. But it's, I think, for people, it's just often a really busy life, and they're not stopping to reflect and to listen. And I guess by working with you and things like that, they get that space and time to know all those check-ins and know what to listen to and know what when to stop and pause and things and probably know how to work with the body much better as well and their energy.

Absolutely. And we all need that pause, don't we, where we need someone to reflect back to us where we're at. And that could be a weekend away on a retreat, or it could be one-to-one work, or doing a longer course, the one-year to three-year courses that I run.

The first year is entirely self-focused. So people are on that developmental journey. And it's just, I think, it's so important to recognise that wherever we are at the journey, there's always more to learn about ourselves and always more to share. 

And to be able to continuously put ourselves in that learning for life, you know, to be able to keep updating or helping ourselves to evolve. Otherwise, disease does kick in because we become stagnant. Yeah, so it's an important process of we're always learning and always discovering new things about ourselves. 

I think that's the beauty of it though, isn't it? Like, just continually rediscovering new levels to yourself and new things. I think it's quite exciting. You know, I know not everybody is probably practising it, but I think it's really important as a practitioner to do that as well, you know, like continually being on that journey.

It's so important. It really is. Yeah, it's, when I think back, even just five years ago, to my own knowledge, compared to now in terms of what I've learned along the way about myself, especially the hormone journey, as you just said, really, you don't, it keeps sort of evolving, doesn't it? Life, because the planet is changing so rapidly. 

We're always updating information and new information is coming through. So, it's so important. Yeah, completely. 

So, I know that you do in the classes, if anyone's wanting to come and study with you, is it in person or is it on, do you do it in distance in case anybody might just not be on the doorstep or anything? Yes, I do everything online as well as in person. So, we live stream from the class if you can't be there. So, I have people all over the world. 

They're not always local people. So, it's always recorded when they decide to do a course with me. And so, if you miss a session, you can always re-listen. 

And there's also, you know, notes alongside the information. So, people, it makes it easy to learn so that you're not sort of tied to having to, you know, turn up if you can't. Some people do. 

Most people who come are from, you know, Cardiff or outside of Wales. But most people do my courses online, yeah. I was going to say, because there must be people listening, I know you've probably got loads of clients and like international thinking, I really want to go and learn. 

I'm fascinated by what I've listened to. It's not on my doorstep or it's not like in-fitting with like my lifestyle and things like that. But if they can do it, like you say.

Yeah, absolutely. And even just at learning, I have people in Australia who just listen to the recordings. They don't come on live on real time. 

They love it, you know. So, it's there available for everyone. And I think that everyone just has such big transformations from it. 

It's really worth committing to having a period of time where you start to look at this work. Yeah. And obviously, like you said, for practitioners, you can blend it into the spiritual work that you're doing and weave it in as well, which sounds amazing.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So, we all need this knowledge, really, whatever you're practising, because it allows us to work on a multidimensional level. 

So, it's another area which you can really integrate with your clients, as well as for your own journey. It allows you to take yourself through all the seasons and to learn all the diagnostic techniques as well. So, we look at pulse, tongue analysis, facial analysis on the course. 

If people decide to train as a nutritionist or naturopath, you have a real multidimensional task set at the end of it, skill set, to be able to share that. It's a really well-rounded course. Yeah, it's amazing. 

And so, the naturopath course, is that the three-year one? It can be one to three years. So, at the end of year one, people can become practice as a naturopathic nutritionist. Two to three years, naturopath, then advanced qualification. 

So, it allows you to practice and is certified. For people who are already practitioners, if you already practice with people and you've got practice with your case studies, etc. If you're already practising the way that you are, Danielle, I do a health coaching course, which is a naturopathic health coaching. 

So, that's a seven-day course. And that runs twice a year. That's also accredited. 

So, there's something for everyone. People start off personally doing their one-to-ones and then maybe do the hormone journey with me. Come on a retreat or, you know, do a short course. 

And then, usually, that leads into doing a one-year training. Most people stay for three years because they really enjoy the process. When the parents are in, they're not getting out of it. 

It's brilliant. The community is just so lovely though. It always attracts, as you know yourself with your own clients, really amazing people with already loads of skills. 

So, it is a nice place to hang out as well because the community is really nice, the people who come to the classes, etc. And just with your retreats, what do your retreats entail? Because I know that everybody's doing retreats, but I know that yours is going to be dead different. Yeah. 

So, we run retreats in the UK. So, there's one coming up during the summer solstice this year and that's in the UK. And we also run them in Bali. 

So, the retreats are a combination of, as I've talked about today, nature cure. So, we forage. The food is all organic and plant-based.

It's usually a combination of foraged food as well as wild and natural organic food. So, you're fed delicious food and we then have a combination of yoga with sound therapy. So, sound baths, cacao ceremonies. 

We do sound frequency healing. So, that would be looking at the frequency a person needs to receive in order to heal. So, the one in Bali, for example, is very focused around working on raising your frequency and finding your individual gifts then to share with the world. 

So, it's very much set for people who want to really evolve themselves and work on manifesting. The one in summer this year is looking at all aspects of your personality, spiritual, mental, emotional and physical. So, we do a combination approach to address those four areas. 

Nice people as well. We do kirtan, which is working with sound healing in the evenings and we also do fire ceremony. So, yeah, it's fun. 

All right. Sounds amazing. So, if anyone's listening and they're like, yeah, I want to do all that or any of it, how do they find you? Yes, you can find me on the school of naturopathic nutrition.com or you can get me on Instagram, which is SNN or the School of Naturopathic Nutrition or Facebook and there's various podcasts there you can have a listen to and you just can get in touch. 

Just email me, send me a message. I have some groups on Telegram as well. So, if you want to be added to the groups, then you're very welcome. 

Oh, wow. That's been amazing. Honestly, I could have asked you so many questions today because, you know, as you were telling me things, I was like, I was firing off loads of things and thinking and I thought I'd just keep it in order, things to ask her. 

But you were fascinating. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. 

I really enjoyed talking to you. Oh, thank you. I'll edit the last bit out as well. 

I can get Max to edit the same bit out. But honestly, thank you. It's been absolutely fascinating.

I've really enjoyed talking. Thank you so much. You're a good interviewer.

The recording is still on, by the way. I can't switch it off my end. Yeah, I'll get Mike to edit this last bit off. 

So, don't worry. Yeah, thank you for just having like a really natural conversation and it's lovely to meet you and the work that you're doing. It's fascinating. 

I'm like, I'm going to do it. It's great. I love talking to you. 

Just drop me a message if you want to book something and I'll give you a free session. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I will do. 

I've been looking at my hormone journey. So, I've got a condition called mast cell. Oh, I know. 

Yeah. Yeah. It's a funny thing where you can react to something once and then not another time and things like that, another condition. 

So, I'm very aware of eating like low histamine foods, but something like smoke, fire can sometimes just give me a little bit of a reaction. But I do know that everything is out of kilter with the menopause. So, I'm trying to get it back in balance and I'd love to just still look at like, because I know the path that I'm on, like the spiritual work and things like that, but I feel like everything's evolving and changing. 

So, two months ago, a lady had asked me to work with her and I was like, it's not right. We're not aligned. I completely stepped back, left, went back to my own business. 

I feel like that's very evolving and changing a little bit as well. So, I feel like very drawn to how you're working as well. It would be so great if you shared this in your work because it's integrated, again, medicine, isn't it? It's another level of layer and we could start with you just having that one-to-one and yeah, deciding what you want to do from there really.

And I did it actually when I had brain surgery and I was like, again, same thing as you, I was like, it's the most amazing time of like, crap times, but interesting. And it really took me on my journey where I was like, I've always seen spirit. I come from a very spiritual family, but I never wanted to do it. 

So, I was like, it took me on a path of where I actually opened and decided to do a nutritionist course while I was off work as a therapist. So, like, I just feel very called to do it and look at the DNA and things like that and how everything adapts in the body. I've not done much with it, but going forward, they seem to need that element and aspect, you know, like a multifaceted approach. 

I'd be interested to do a session if that'd be okay and then look at maybe what would be the best thing for me to do. Yeah, that would be awesome. Yeah, let me know. 

Just get in touch and I'll book you in. I will. Yeah. 

Okay. So, thank you so much for today. It was amazing. 

Thank you for your time. Thank you so much too. Yeah, I've really loved talking. 

Let me know where I'll find the podcast when it's out and audio links and things so I can look you up and find out more about your work. I'll send you some links for work and what I'll do is once the podcast has been edited, it won't be next Tuesday, it'll be the following Tuesday after. I'll send you all the links and it'll have like a soundbite over and everything and it'll have all the links of where it's going to happen and things like that and you can share it if you want to share anything or just listen.

Thank you. You're so welcome. Thank you so much. 

All right, have a lovely day. You too. Thank you. 

Bye.