Voices in Health and Wellness

Trojan Horse Medicine: How IPT Changes Lyme Treatment with Martin Nielsen

• Dr Andrew Greenland • Season 1 • Episode 15

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What happens when conventional medicine runs out of answers? For Martin Nielsen, founder of IAH Wellness, his own mysterious health collapse twenty years ago became the catalyst for developing revolutionary treatments for some of medicine's most perplexing conditions.

Martin's journey from severely ill patient to pioneering healthcare provider unfolds as he shares how he built a cutting-edge treatment protocol for Lyme disease and autoimmune disorders after being dismissed by conventional doctors. With remarkable candour, he describes how personal experimentation with probiotics, herbal therapies, and immune system rebuilding ultimately restored his health when traditional approaches failed.

The heart of IAH Wellness' approach is their proprietary LACI (Lyme and Co-infection) protocol, featuring Insulin Potentiated Therapy - a fascinating "Trojan horse" method that uses insulin to make cells permeable, allowing antibiotics to target pathogens hiding inside cells. What sets the clinic apart isn't just their innovative medical techniques, but their intensely personalised approach to patient care.

Most patients arrive after seven years of illness, medical dismissal, and failed treatments. Martin explains how their year-long healing journey includes pre-treatment immune modulation, six weeks of intensive clinic-based therapies, and 9-12 months of at-home protocols with regular monitoring. The results? Wheelchair-bound patients who've been sick for over a decade returning to 10-kilometre daily walks and normal life.

The conversation takes an emotional turn when Martin reveals how many patients break down during initial consultations simply because someone finally listens to and validates their suffering. With a background in hospitality, he's created more than a medical facility - it's a healing destination where every aspect of the patient journey is carefully considered.

Despite impressive outcomes, Martin shares the significant challenges facing his work: the financial barriers preventing many from accessing treatment and the persistent lack of awareness about Lyme disease among medical professionals. His vision for the future includes establishing a foundation to help finance treatment for those who can't afford it and doubling the clinic's capacity while maintaining their high-touch approach.

What would you do if conventional medicine abandoned you? Martin Nielsen's inspiring story shows there might be another way forward.

Guest: Martin Nielsen
Title: Founder
Company: IAH Wellness
Email: martin@iahwellness.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinnielsen1/
Clinic Location: Andorra (Operations also based in Málaga, Spain)
Website: iahwellness.com

Dr Andrew Greenland:

from down here in Southern Europe.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

Okay, so welcome back to Voices in Health and Wellness. This is the show where we spotlight the innovators, operators and bold thinkers reshaping how healthcare is delivered and experienced. I'm your host, Andrew Greenland, and today's guest is someone truly inspiring in the world of preventative health and wellness. Joining us today is Martin Nielsen, founder of IAH Wellness, a cutting-edge health and wellness center based in Malaga, Spain. Martin brings a powerful blend of clinical insight, operational vision and a deep commitment to personalized wellness. At IAH Wellness, he's building more than just a clinic. He's creating a destination for healing and preventative care that integrates advanced therapies with holistic health principles. So, Martin, thank you very much for hopping on the call today. Hopefully, everything I've said is correct. Before we move on, A small detail.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

Okay, we have the office in Malaga, but the clinic is based in Andorra, in the personality of Andorra. So it's a small but little important detail.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

No, absolutely. Thank you for that correction, and where are you actually calling from today?

Dr Andrew Greenland:

So now I'm sitting in Malaga. You're in Malaga, you and I travel between malaga and andorra on a semi-weekly basis okay, great.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

So maybe we can kick off if you start at the top and just tell us a little bit about ih wellness and your role in it. That'd be really helpful for people to kind of understand what you do definitely.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

Um well, I ate. Wellness we have. It's a program or a project that we started about four years and a half ago with the idea of trying to make offer a better solution to people with Lyme infection, autoimmune disorders and pathogenic infections that they were not getting any kind of treat, adequate treatment, in the medical health care. Um and we opened the clinic two years ago and we've been ever since then modifying a treatment protocol to try to find the best solution to be able to um to treat lyme patients, not only for their infection but to rebuild their immune system. So our our focus is more put on regaining and re-establishing the immune system than actually curing a disease okay that's interesting.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

I mean, lyme is a huge problem over here as well, so I'll perhaps delve into that a little bit later. What about? How was this all inspired? I mean, does this come about as a particular thing, a particular experience, or I'm just trying to get some sense of how this came about.

Martin Nielsen:

Well, many times things happen because you're in the right place or the wrong place, at the right time or the wrong place. I've had my own personal health issues, like many people in this business, 20 years ago, um, I still today don't know if it was lyme, but it was some kind of infection that completely shut down my immune system and my gut biome. Um, 20 years ago it was difficult to find any kind of information on Google. The World Wide Web was pretty new, facebook was just starting, so I was a little bit left out there to try to find a solution and I went through the typical healthcare system, which is the first thing you do you visit your medical care doctor. He doesn't find anything wrong with you because physically you cannot see anything. So I was bounced between clinics and hospital for a year and, like many or the most of Lyme patients, I got worse and worse and I lost almost 15 kilos, but still I was. According to all the doctors, I was as healthy as you can get. Eventually they wanted to prescribe me antidepressant medicine. At that point I said, no, there's got to be something wrong, there's got to be something that it didn't pop out of thin air and I had been living for a year in thailand and I was mosquito bitten every single day. So I started scouting around the web as much as I could at that point.

Martin Nielsen:

Um, it was not easy, but I I I started to understand that if I could heal myself from inside, if I could reset my gut biome, if I could reset my intestinal tract, I would eventually rebuild my immune system. And I read all the information from Dr Hulda Clark, which is a well-known herbal treatment therapist from Hungary. She deceased many years ago but bearing in mind the way she looked at the human body, um, I visited a couple laboratories in the uk and spain. Um, I put together my own treatment protocol, basically to clean myself and to rebuild my immune system, so that the immune system could deal with anything that was wrong in my body. Because I didn't know what was wrong. But the immune system would find a solution if I could get it back. Um, and I did that protocol for about two years and a half, um, and gradually it was not overnight, but gradually I was getting better and by year three, three and a half, I was basically back to 100 of my physical strength, my physical endurance, my stamina, my skin color. Um, so I, at that point, I understood that the immune system is the key to everything and ever since, I've always been very connected to health and wellness. Uh, it was never a business, but it was more like a hobby and I have helped a lot of people, based on my own experience.

Martin Nielsen:

And back in 2021 um, no, 2020, um. I met my partner and we started to think about what about if we could, because he had experience with lyme because of family members and I have almost 20 years experience of supplementation and herbal therapy for infectious pathogens and how to use the probiotics to rebuild your gut biome. So that's, I would say, that point is when the IAH wellness project started, and then it took us a couple of years to find out a good place, because the IPT treatment, which is our main treatment, you cannot do it everywhere. There's still limitations in EU countries. So Andorra came up as a possibility. We're outside EU. It's a small principality. We have the possibilities of doing performing treatments that they're not illegal in EU, but they're not legal, so they're in the gray zone In Andorra. We're in the white zone.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

Got it. And for those that maybe don't know. Could you tell us what the IPT treatments are?

Martin Nielsen:

Yeah, ipt is one of the four parts of our LACI protocol, which stands for Lyme and co-infection protocol. It's IPT stands for Lyme and Co-infection Protocol. Its IPT stands for insulin potentiated therapy. What we do is that it comes from cancer therapy. Really, what the IPT does is that it induces insulin in the cells and make the cells permeable, meaning that the cells will gradually open up, allowing us to induce the antibiotics inside the cells where almost all the infectious pathogens are located, and very safely away from normal oral antibiotics and even IV antibiotics. So it's kind of a Trojan horse. We trick the cell to open up because it's getting nutrient. What we're doing is we're sending a small package with the nutrients, packed with antibiotics.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

Got it so obviously you started with your own personal health journey, and it probably took you a lot of experimentation to kind of find out your own healing journey. How has that morphed into what a typical journey might look like for your patients that you're seeing today?

Martin Nielsen:

It's very, very linked. I don't know how many other Lyme doctors work. I'm not a doctor, but there's no supplementation or herbal treatment or probiotic treatment that we give the patients that I haven't used myself and that is due to all the years that I had to experiment on myself to be able to find the solution. So it's very well morphed into the treatment. Both did probiotic protocols from human origin. I've used it on myself. I've tried on family members to make sure that, mainly to understand the work when, when you get symptoms, why are there? What's going to happen? If you get bloating, will it disappear? So I'm able to speak with the patients, especially in video calls that we do both pre treatment and post treatment, and explain to them what you're feeling is normal, it will go away, it's, it's a normal symptom. You will should expect these kind of symptoms on your healing journey. So it's very valuable having being able to experience this, this path, myself all right, um, so what does a typical day look for for you?

Dr Andrew Greenland:

um, at the clinic at the moment. Are you more on the operations side, or direct care, or the innovation side, or a mixture of all of the above? How does a typical day look like for you?

Martin Nielsen:

I'm not that I would say more than the daily routine of the clinic is from a patient interest comes in, we reach out to the patient, um, we set up a video call with the patient because the majority of the patients are in the us, um. So the best way to understand a patient, to be able to ask questions, answer questions, build up a certain trust, which is very important by having a face-to-face. Having a face-to-face meeting physically is impossible due to distance. So we offer always a first video call consultation free of charge. Those video calls normally takes between an hour and a half and two hours because once you start talking to a patient, questions starts arising out of nowhere, which is normal, and the majority of the Lyme and co-infection patients they need someone to speak to, because it's a very common factor that no one has ever listened to them or even taken them for serious. So and I've had that so many times because I take the video calls, I take the introductory calls and many patients break down because they've never had someone even listening to them. So it's um. So I usually set aside at least two hours for those calls, if necessary, and then once a patient decides to to come to andorra.

Martin Nielsen:

We set them up for a pre-treatment protocol. The pre-treatment protocol is 30 days before arrival. It's based on probiotic protocol and supplementation and this allows us to gently modulate the immune system response and suddenly rebuild the gut biome, which normally is non existing. That way, when they arrive to the clinic and start the IPT treatment, which is rather harsh, the body is a little bit better prepared. So once they arrive to the clinic, it's a six week treatment, normally three to four hours a day. It's the mixture between IPT with antibiotics, iv-boosting supplementation, intravenous physical therapy, mindfulness, because a lot of Lyme patients have cognitive problems and it's very functional to have them a couple of sessions a week on mindfulness and help them. So that's the normal day.

Martin Nielsen:

Normally treatment starts in the morning and then once the patient finishes the six weeks they go back home and they still continue between nine to 12 months on a oral supplementation, herbal therapy and probiotic protocol that we set up for them. We personalize it and then we have a weekly follow-up with a daily log that the patient fills in so that we we can monitor the symptoms, the ups and downs, the progress, and then every two weeks we have a video call until the patient says I don't need anymore, and that normally happens after about 20 weeks. Okay, so we don't leave the patient out once they finish at the clinic. This is I normally tell the patient. This is we're going to be together for a year. It is a long journey, but it took a long journey to get you sick. Now it's going to take time to get you well and it's not going to happen overnight.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

And how many patients are kind of complete everything they need to do in a year, and they're better in inverted commas, particularly for Lyme, because I know how difficult it is to treat because I've been involved myself.

Martin Nielsen:

It is very difficult, especially because where the spirulina are located they're all intracellular. Many patients have co-infections, which makes it even more difficult. They have activated viruses Epstein-Barr is very typical Herpes, simplus viruses. So it's a complete breakdown of immune system. But the treatment works. It takes time.

Martin Nielsen:

Normally there is a there's a change in in physical condition attitude about week four at the clinic. Uh, the first couple of weeks the patient don't get worse, but they do have her trying reactions. We try to modulate them as much as we can because it's not a bad thing. But and it tells us that something is happening in the body. But normally before getting better you get worse. It's it's a very common phrase. So normally about four weeks in patients are not, are starting to feel now something is happening and it's happening in a positive way. Um, and the six by six weeks, we've come a large step in the treatment journey. But now it's really important that we continue. That's why this post-protocol of nine to twelve months is so fundamental, because that's going to keep on driving the herbal treatment gradually into the cells, breaking down the biofilm.

Martin Nielsen:

The probiotic protocol is gradually recolonizing the, the gut biome, strengthening the immune system, because that's where we want to go.

Martin Nielsen:

We want to strengthen, we want to give the immune system the way back to operate the way it did before the person got sick.

Martin Nielsen:

So the the success rate is right now every single patient has gotten better, a lot better. We never say cured, because once you have lime in your body it's always going to be there, like the herpes simple virus, but it's not a problem as long as the immune system can handle it. So every single patient is now back to normal life. You can have some aches here and there, still have a little bit of headache once in a while, but they've gone from wheelchair to back to active life, which which is a huge gain, to back to active life, which is a huge gain. And then we give them the recommendation to. Once you finish the protocol, there are certain supplementation you should be on for life to maintain your immune system as active and as powerful as possible, and those are just maintaining adequate vitamin D, three levels, k two, calcium, magnesium, nac, maybe cysteine as well. So normal supplementation for a person that is active, maintaining a active life and keeping immune system fit for basically anything.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

Amazing. So we're seeing wellness and preventative care move from the fringes to the center of healthcare conversations, particularly in Europe, and what big shifts are you noticing from your vantage point in the work that you do?

Martin Nielsen:

Well, we have to bear in mind that there's still a huge amount of countries in in europe that are lime free. Lime free, um, they have ticks, they have mosquitoes, they have flies, they have lice, but there's no, there's no lime. So it's it's still difficult. I mean, well, I'm I better say like this the approach to a patient after seven years of neglected disease. It's a big hurdle when you're telling them that we have a treatment protocol which is different. It's a long protocol, but it works. It makes you sound like a car salesman, sound like a car salesman. So it's a very it's a difficult trust leap to take, both for them and for us, to be able to find an understanding that you might have been to several treatments, you might have been run around, but you should give us a chance to treat you. And that is based on the medical healthcare where there's no knowledge and, I would say, not very much interest either all right.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

What about patient expectations? Have you noticed any changes in the way patients expect um the way they're going to be treated by you? Your clinic has anything changed? Or I mean, obviously these are quite complex patients. I guess they've always been quite demanding in a way. I don't know how has it been from an expectations point of?

Martin Nielsen:

view yeah, you said a very curious word there and demanding. Let's compare with a cancer patient. A cancer cancer patient. I would say I don't know if they have any expectations. I don't know if they have any demands. They go to the medical doctor they're probably remiss. To the hospital. They start treatment, they don't Google, and that's it.

Martin Nielsen:

A Lyme patient has our patients have been sick for an average of seven years. That's seven years of Google. That's seven years of trying to understand the majority. What's happening with me, for better or for worse? The majority have a huge amount of information. Not all of the information is correct, though, but they have information.

Martin Nielsen:

So when they come to us, um, their expectations are many times zero because they've been on treatments, they have been to clinics. Um, every time they've had a treatment, they've gone worse. So it that's the first huge step we have to try to get around, to make them understand that Please try to forget the past. Let's try to look forwards, don't look backwards. Backwards will be important once we're doing treatment, but right now we need a clear mind. So it's a big hurdle in the beginning, because their expectations are basically down to zero. I'm not going to get well because they've told me that I should accept my disease.

Martin Nielsen:

So, yeah, it's uh, it's a demanding patient and many times uh, a patient that expects basically nothing and a patient that expects basically nothing and psychologically very, very broken down, and that's one of the reasons why we spend time with them. We only take seven patients a month. Our ratio medical, doctor, nurse, patient is very high. They're never, ever, alone. They never share the treatment room with a second patient. They're always under supervision. So they we try to make them feel being taken care of, and we're seeing that that is really important. You could optimize this as a business and put 50 patients in a big room, but our philosophy is different. We are human beings and we're treating with human beings that are broken down and we need to give them attention and care.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

What's working particularly well for you at IH Wellness at the moment? What are you sort of most proud of in your approach?

Martin Nielsen:

I would say that having a patient coming in a wheelchair, not being able to stand up and walk for more than 15 meters, seeing them going back home after six weeks without a wheelchair and getting notifications after 20 to 25 weeks that they're out walking 10 kilometers a day and back into normal life when they've been sick for 14 years, I would say that's what makes me the most happy and that's our biggest achievement. You can't buy that for money. Giving the life back to a patient.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

Amazing Must be very satisfying seeing that kind of remarkable transformation, especially yes it is.

Martin Nielsen:

It takes time, it is a struggle. You have to build up the trust. You have to get them the majority overseas to come over. They come normally from other medical doctors, uh. But for me the most important thing is that, with what we are telling them is true, we never say we're going to cure them, but we promise we're going to make you better If you stick on the protocol and you do what we tell you to do, which is really important. And we have to stick to it for a long time. We cannot give up. Giving up is not an option. So, patients that are really, they stick to the line. Even if they don't see the light in the beginning, they eventually do. And when that transition comes and you get feedback that I, I'm, I'm noticing differences, I'm noticing changes. My, my, uh, my daughter I haven't seen for a couple of months or a year. She said, dad, you really look much better. Those are the small things that that that makes it worse. Keeping going.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

Amazing and, on the flip side, what's most frustrating recently. Is there anything that you wish would just work better or anything that kind of challenges you and your team in terms of what you do?

Martin Nielsen:

I would say it's the financial issue. It is because these treatments are not covered by any insurance, so people have to pay them themselves and, besides being an expensive treatment, the majority of the patients have already spent almost all the money on other treatments. Patients have already spent almost all the money on other treatments. So one one of our main tasks right now is we need to be able to get a little bit further up in the line of treatments. When a patient gets sick, don't find us after seven, ten years. Find us before, before you might lose your job, before you might lose your, your family, which you might lose your, your family, which even happens.

Martin Nielsen:

Um, because they spend a lot of money on treatments during the years that eventually didn't really work out for them, were too short, adequate, not holistically, um set up enough. So the funding is a huge issue. I always say if we could set up a fund that could actually like in cancer foundations, that would actually finance Lyme and co-infection patients, that would be the major breakthrough. So that the money was not a problem, because unfortunately, there's a lot of patients we we can't treat because they can't afford it. It it's, it's horrible, it hurts, because you know you can make a difference, but there's no financing feasible for them.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

I mean.

Martin Nielsen:

I would say that's a. That's a big hurdle.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, typically, what's the kind of a typical um bill for a patient for the 12 months? I mean, obviously everybody's going to be different and there are variations, but just give us some sense of perspective on on what the kind of bill is for a patient.

Martin Nielsen:

The reason why we've done it this way is that a patient a patient needs, we need antibiotic treatment. There's no way around it. We need to kill the infectious pathogens. Um, in a perfect world, the patient would stay three to four months at the clinic, but that's physically not really feasible, financially.

Martin Nielsen:

Financially not so we've put together a treatment protocol where we reduce the time at the clinic to make it more economically viable and then we've expanded the whole treatment time, doing it at home. So I would say that every month at home between supplementation, herbal therapy and probiotic therapy is around 300 euros a month, which is more or less feasible for the majority. And then the treatment at the clinic is where the major cost goes. It's 11 euros a day is where the major cost goes. It's 11 euros a day for between 30 to 45 treatment days because and the world and the iv antibiotics is expensive, ipt is very expensive and then the immune system iv is expensive. So there's no way and we've tried to make it as economically reduced as possible.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

So if they can manage the treatment at the clinic, the home treatment protocols are more or less acceptable at around 300 euros a month, and apart from obviously that's the financial thing from a patient perspective and your ability to treat more people, but is there anything sort of operationally which is a challenge in running this kind of service?

Martin Nielsen:

funding aside, because I get, I completely get that yeah, yeah, um, one time we might be able to crack that. Not as well. Um, well, one, one, one maybe. One of the the different parts is that we have to put needles during 30 to 45 days on a person, and that's not always easy. That's why we have a professional anesthesiologist at the clinic to be able to manage that part, because day one is not a problem, but once you've had a IV put in you for one week, two weeks, not always a good vasodilation, not always a well working material system, so that that's challenge hmm, and the only way we saw a way of getting around that is to having not only a nurse but having an anesthesiologist that can handle those issues.

Martin Nielsen:

If we have to use the legs, the foot, the hand, if we need to put in a port, we can put a port as well. So maybe those are the major struggles and then you have the famous her time of reactions. But they've never been a problem because we, we work, we start low and we and we go up. So you don't, we don't get those tremendous effects from day one. So I think the main, the main struggle could be or challenge, is the way of being able to administer the iv for between 30 to 45 days, especially on children yeah, are there any um specific metrics or outcomes that you focus on in your business or that you're working on to improve?

Dr Andrew Greenland:

I just wonder, when you're running this kind of operation, the things that you particularly look out for, to kind of give you some sense of how things are going.

Martin Nielsen:

Well, right now we are working a lot with marketing, because to be able to treat more people, we need to be seen. There's no way around it. It takes time, um, and the lime world, or lyman co-infection world, is a very, very closed community, I think because they've been bullied around so much. So all these line group facebook groups, instagram groups are extremely her medical closed. They don't let anybody in there. Groups are extremely her medical closed. They don't let anybody in there, and that's a challenge, uh, because those are the patients. So the marketing issue is it's, uh, it's it's a challenge that we're working on.

Martin Nielsen:

um, we're also trying to find a way of and this is a project, that's it goes in in parallel, but being able to set up a foundation that can help and finance blind patients, that would be the uh, the breakthrough. It's difficult and we still need a lot of more proof on everything, but being able to have a possibility of, of co-financing a patient's treatment would be, I think, a breakthrough in this area.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

And thinking to the next sort of six or 12 months. Where would you like the clinic to be going forward?

Martin Nielsen:

Well, right now we are working on six patients a month. I would like it to be within 12 months at 11 to 12 patients a month. I would like it to be within 12 months at 11 to 12 patients a month. That means we have to double the clinic and we have to double the staff, but we have the possibility to do so. So that's what's in the pipeline for HOTA.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

Amazing If you could reach out to that number of patients. It'd be amazing Because I know there's a huge number who need treatment across the world.

Martin Nielsen:

I mean, I'm just doubling into this world myself, so I do understand, yeah, and there are still a lot of not that many clinics in the occident, in Europe and the US, that actually work with IV.

Martin Nielsen:

Ipt is almost non-existing. Many of the clinics that works, they use big rooms with multiple patients sitting with IV drops. It's a very different philosophy. I have a background in hotel business as well, so my approach to this project was to bring knowledge from the hospitality side to put into the clinic so that the patient feels that from the moment they arrive in Barcelona, the way we pick them up in the transfer if they need to lie down, we send a big car where they can lie down. If they want to sit up, we send a bigger car to sit up. The way we drive them to the hotel, drop them off at the hotel. The way they take care of the patients, because they know about lying patients. The way we pick them up in the morning and drive them down to the clinic, we do a nutritional meeting with them, we do a physiological meeting with them. So it's more than just a patient coming for treatment.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

It's a health journey. It sounds like a destination from what you're saying.

Martin Nielsen:

We're trying to make it that way. If you're coming from far away, it doesn't have to be a necessary evil. Um, andorra is a magical place, it's. It's very difficult not to sell it as as a destination, as a tourist destination. Uh, it's. It's a small country, extremely clean, there's no crime rate, there's no unemployment. It's very controlled, high altitude, green, fresh air, fresh water. So it's the perfect place for this kind of treatment to take place and being able to take care of the patient as if they were on an ordinary wellness treatment. That's the philosophy behind it.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

And if there was one, sorry, carry on.

Martin Nielsen:

No, and that's one of the reasons why we engage with the patients through video calls in the beginning. We're making them understand that this is more than just a treatment. You have to trust us with this, in the way you fly in and the way we take care of you. It's not just a clinic where you send a paycheck and and you will come on day one.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

It's, it's supposed to be built up as, like you say, it's a wellness journey, especially because we're going to be together for one year yeah, it's a, it's a marathon, not a, a sprint, as I say, and if there was one major roadblock you could remove right now, what would that be? I know, probably the funding thing is a big one, but is there anything else that you would like to be able to wave a magic wand and solve.

Martin Nielsen:

I would probably say awareness and acknowledgement to the Lyme patients, to the Lyme patients that the medical society would acknowledge that Lyme exists it's not in their heads and raise the awareness that this is an epidemic and it's rising. Not only because it's rising, it's because we've had it for so long that it's been covered as many other diseases or symptoms or syndromes. The climate has changed, the way we live close to animals has changed, the way we move into forests have changed, so the awareness is fundamental. If there could be more awareness, more knowledge, it would be easier for us as a clinic to work as well, especially the acknowledgement to the line patients. They exist and they are sick. It's not in their head, and that I can hear from every single patient I speak with, and some patients even believe it, because once you've been told something so many times by professionals, it gets to a point where you even start believing it yourself.

Dr Andrew Greenland:

Martin, thank you so much for your time this afternoon. Really good conversation, really rich conversation. Thank you for sharing your journey, your story and what you do for these patients. It sounds quite remarkable. I hope you can solve the um, the funding issue, because I completely get it, because that is basically going to open up the gateway to be able to treat more patients. I'm not sure it's an easy fix, but I hope you find a solution for it.

Martin Nielsen:

But really giving up is not an option exactly, exactly thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it my pleasure, thank you.