GLP-1s, MS & The Power of Perspective | A Conversation with Matt Hunt

When Matt Hunt was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis, life changed in an instant. But his diagnosis didn't define him.

In this episode of Closing Time with David Mansour, Matt shares the early signs of MS, what it was like hearing the diagnosis, and the mindset that helped him move forward while serving as a CFO in the healthcare industry.

We also have an honest conversation about GLP-1 medications. Not as medical experts, but as two people discussing the questions, stigma, and real-life experiences surrounding one of today's most talked-about healthcare topics. We explore "food noise," addiction, leadership, degenerative diseases, and why empathy matters more than assumptions.

Matt closes with the advice he wishes every newly diagnosed person could hear.

If you've ever faced an unexpected challenge, know someone living with MS, or are simply looking for a thoughtful conversation about health, leadership, and resilience, this episode is for you.

Disclaimer: This conversation reflects our personal experiences, observations, and opinions. It is not intended as medical advice. Please consult your healthcare provider for medical guidance specific to your situation.

You can find me as David Monsour a.k.a. Disco Davo on most social media applications as well as my contact 
davidmonsour.com.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Everybody green? I'm gring or gring. We're gring. All right. Claim my teeth out for her. All right, hey everybody. We are here today with Matt Hunt. Matt is the CFO of a healthcare company. Matt lost 90 pounds on GLP ones, and he is living with MS, and we are going to talk about all three. So thank you very much for joining me. Glad to be here. Yeah, so we've known each other for a very long time. I've known Matt since, I guess, right out of college, right?

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Yeah, about 28 years.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

So we've kind of been through all of life together, I guess most of the adult part of it, which is part of what we're going to talk about today. Let's start with MS. So what were the symptoms, I guess? How did that start? What were the symptoms? And how long from the symptoms did it take for you to actually get that diagnosis?

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Sure. I was on vacation with my family, and literally you can't make this up, but the week before I sprayed my glass, my eyeglasses with bug spray, and it wrecked the film. So I had my old glasses on for like the second day, and I woke up in the morning and I had double vision. Like perfect double vision, which means not blurry, but I could close one eye, see fine, close the other eye, see fine, both eyes open, literally two pictures on top of each other, and I couldn't get them to come together. Like, well, that's weird, right? I'm I'm 35. This isn't supposed to happen, or 36. And it went away in a couple hours. But it was it flagged me, it flagged the back of my mind. I was like, that's kind of weird. So I was I was in Florida with some some mutual friends, actually. And then the next morning, same thing. And then it went away. And then I went back to work the next week, and it just was like, that's weird, right? And WebMD gave me all kinds of crazy.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Because you went to it that quick.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Yeah, that's within a few days.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

And and I went to my general practitioner who wasn't my general, I actually went and found a general practitioner and went to the doctor. And literally, he's like, Well, you know, shit happens when you get older.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

But you were overweight at the time.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Yeah, I was, I was, I mean, I've been overweight my whole life. We'll get into that in probably more detail. But I was, I was, I've been a big boy most of my life. So, but he he he just said, like, yeah, you know, that can that happens. And I I remember thinking, like, huh, that's kind of weird. But also, thankfully, the doctor did not come off as like completely on top of his game, and he seemed like he was had one foot out the door.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

And I went, I went and made an appointment at my optometrist because I needed the new glasses, anyways. And I said, By the way, this happened. And she and she looked at me, and she, you know, literally, optometrist is usually like, what letters do you see? She was poking and prodding, and she said, You know, I don't see anything, but I want you to go to a neuroophthalmologist specialist in Piedmont. It's like, cool, I'll do whatever you want. And then I went and I ended up checking out the the moral of the story is within two weeks I was diagnosed with MS.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

I think ophthalmometrists might be some of the smartest people out there. I don't know why. They just I feel like they connect a lot of shout out to Amy Jeffries.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Amy Jeffries. My doctor said nothing no problem. And my optometrist in Noonan said, you know, this is something you need to look into.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Do we want to call out the doctor? Amy Jeffries.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

No, the one that I think he's since retired.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

We won't do that. He used to be in Tyrone, though. Oh, okay. So what what was that like? Because that's uh I mean that's a big, heavy, whatever. What the moment you heard that, what was how did it hit?

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Yeah, it hit it hit hard. I mean, really what I say, and you know, it's it's not possible to explain MS unless you have it. But I literally tell people that when she told me I had MS, I felt like she gave it to me. Because your brain is awesome, right? Your brain filters out signals all the time. So, you know, there could be some for my example. I had I have multiple lesions in my brain. Like I had all kinds of scar tissue in my brain when we did the MRI, but I never knew it. So, you know, I have I happen to have numb pinkies all the time, my whole life. Like ever since she told me. The day she told me, I have my pink, the end of the finger, the pinky toe, the little pinky ends are numb. And they all always have been. And it was not until she told me I had my mask. And literally within an hour, stuff started tingling all over, and I felt stuff that I hadn't. It was like my brain had permission to like, oh wait, those signals we've been filtering out, those might be real now. And it was very creepy. I literally drove home from Piedmont to Peachtree City where I lived, and the whole way down, I just started feeling weird stuff all over. It was very, very freaky.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

So, did you ever consider keeping it a secret at all? Whether just from your wife or just from friends and family or anybody?

SPEAKER_01 5:12

No, but uh respect to anyone that does, but my like the who I am as a person. Like, if you want to keep a secret, do not tell me. I can't even throw a surprise party. Like, I I tell everybody everything. Literally, the day I was diagnosed, I told my boss, which is probably dumb. I told my wife, I announced it on Facebook within a couple days. Like I'm I'm an open book. Like I don't, I don't like living with does that person know? Like, I don't like I don't play all those games.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

I'm the same way. I always wondered, I don't know why I had that weird thought. I always wondered, I always thought that, okay, if I get cancer, I don't want to tell anybody because I don't want people bringing me this and feeling sorry, I'm gonna, but then I know myself and I tell people when I got a headache, right? Like I posted. So there's no way I'm I'm getting away with that. So I'm just uh there and there was no strategy behind it.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

I just I'm not wired that way.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Yeah. So how does the family react? Is that I'm sure do you think it was an overreaction, or were they as in, oh my god, you're dying, or a very positive, we're gonna beat this. Like I'm talking about the initial.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Yeah. So 36. I have a six-year-old, an eight-year-old, a 10-year-old. I'm theoretically in the prime of life. And my wife and I immediately talk about how are we gonna try to pay off our house? How are we gonna downsize? What are we gonna do? Because the Wikipedia at the time was like, chances are you'll be in a wheelchair in 12 years, and it's there's no cure, and it's a downward spiral of just it's just terrible, right? Yeah, it's just terrible. Like everything you read initially. In fact, I only knew one person, my neighbor's father-in-law had MS and he had it his whole life. And literally, I was just trying to reach out and get information. I bought every book you could buy. Like, thank you, Yamaha. I spent the first year after my diagnosis. I think I went into work and I just did the bare minimum and just researched. I was just reading everything I could. But I met with the guy, he had MS for 50 years, and he was like, No matter what they tell you, there's no cure and it's terrible, and it's gonna be with you forever, and it's just a world of shit. That's kind of what he said to me.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

And I'm just like, oh, he was trying to make it sound like it was worse. Like, no, yeah, he there was no, there was no nothing positive.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

And I'm an opt, I'm an optimistic person. I was like, like, okay, what's the good part, right? Yeah. So it was really, it was really a struggle for a while. In fact, I, you know, I was depressed, and not looking back, like I didn't know it at the time, but I always measure it how many times I think about it. And I imagine people that have go through cancer the same way, or it's kind of like lifelong illness. I used to think about it every five seconds. Wow. And and now, and we'll get to it like I'm like you other than me telling people, you wouldn't know I have MS. Like, yeah, my pinkies are a little numb, but like I I can run a 5K. I've never taken a bad step. I have I have 30-something lesions in my brain, I have lesions on my spinal cord. I've been immensely lucky, by the way. Like, you know, I've been very fortunate throughout this, but I I didn't have I didn't have the issues that that a lot of people have. And I so I've been lucky. I want to say that. Like it's not like, oh, I did this thing, and if you're smart, you can get overcome it. Like there's a for sure a luck involved. But now I still think about it, and it doesn't really affect me. I still think about it probably once a week.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

But which is good. That's a good spot to be. Yeah, it's very good. Like, yeah, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

So what I've only heard the term lesions only recently with tied with, I guess, cancer, brain cancer or whatever. So what what is a lesion to someone else? I guess.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

MS is your body attacks the myelin, which is the fatty sheath that think about like an electrical wire, the rubber sheath that guards on camera. That guard that guards the wire, the the fatty material. It basically attacks that. So your your nerves malfunction and signals are bad and messaging is bad.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

So do the lesions, are they growing, shrinking? Are you getting more? Or is that a concern at all? Or so it's that part of MS.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

It's part of MS. It's it's you will likely, if you have MS, you will likely have attacks with new lesions throughout your life. Okay. That's that's generally, and how they measure the drugs is how effective they are at stopping lesions.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Right. So when I say lesions, I have scar tissue with and you can see them on the MR. It's a pot, it's like a little white, a white spot, and then eventually after many years, it turns into a black spot.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Okay. So MS, you have drugs that you take to manage MS, but there's no cure or there's no cure, right? Right. I think of it like so. My mom was recently diagnosed with lung cancer and it spread to her brain, and she's taken, she qualified for a it's not a cancer pill. I'm not allowed to call it a chemo pill for whatever, whatever, but it has made those lesions disappear. Now they were very, very small, and it hasn't been a long time, but that was huge. They actually they say they disappeared. I don't know if they just I think we just say they've gotten so small that now they're not, they don't measure them or they're undetectable, right? So is that something that can happen with any of these? Or is that is this totally different type of lesion?

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Everyone has their own story, and I've heard anecdotal evidence, and people say, like, oh, my lesions disappeared, but I don't I don't know how to believe that. Right. My neurologist said they do not disappear. Okay. And you know, it's probably a different MRI machine, doesn't detect them the same way, and they don't show up the same way. But you know, if you had your lesions disappear, awesome. Like I'm not, I'm not here to like argue that point. Right. But but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

So what was the first step?

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Obviously, you want to eat healthier. I mean, what would what does the doctor say? Okay, so let's make you live the longest. What do we got to do? We got to lose 50 pounds or we gotta exercise more or less stress. Did they say you can no longer strive to be CFO of a company because that's too stressful? What was what was the doctor's recommendation straight away?

SPEAKER_01 11:26

So it's it's all of the above, right? My first doctor was at the shepherd center, and they said, you know, you're gonna take here, take this pill, take it twice a day, and we'll see what happens. And I'm like, I want to see what happens. Like I heard that what happens is not good, right? Like, you know, I wanted more. And I was at the Shepherd Center for a year, and you know, I'm sure they give good care to some people, but it wasn't a great fit for me. And this is where, you know, again, I've been lucky, I'll say that. But I was at work one day and one of my friends is a drug drug rep. And he said, Hey, have you heard of Dr. Legank? I said, No, I haven't. He said, Oh, he's a guy, he's a he's a neurologist in Alabama, and his mom had MS, and he told his mom that he was gonna grow up and be a neurologist and cure MS. I was like, Oh, that's a cool story. Like, awesome. And then literally the same week, different drug rep called me about the same guy. They both live in Peachtree City, they do not know each other.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

The drug reps live in Petre City.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

The two drug reps know each other. They're both friends of mine, they don't know each other. It wasn't like a concerted effort. Yeah. And he called me and asked me if I knew about Dr. Lagek. You know, I'm not super religious, but I was like, that's a thing. Yeah. Like I think that's called a God wink, right? That's that's a thing. And but also I kept going about my life. Like I have three kids and I was living my life and you know, reading. And then a couple weeks later, he's he the one of the first guy that called me called me back and he's like, Hey, you remember how I told you about Dr. Leganc? I was like, Yeah, he's like, Are you gonna make an appointment? I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna do that. And I really thought I was gonna, I wanted to do that, but I was like, you know, I wasn't gonna call him that day. I'll get to it. It's like, all right, I'm gonna hand the phone to his receptionist. He just canceled his vacation next week. You can't normally get in for a year, but like he has opening, so I'm gonna hand you the phone right now. I was like, okay. So I talked to, I think her name was Mary, but I talked to her, I I made the appointment, and like four days later, I'm in I'm in Coleman, Alabama, which is rural. I know Coleman. Think about it. And a college roommate from Coleman. Think about it. I'm going to the Shepherd Center in Atlanta, which is world renowned. Like you think Atlanta's the center. And I met him, I met Dr. Legenk, and you know, he he he gave me a path. He gave me a two-year path to get on Lemtrada, which was at I think it's still pretty much the strongest regimen of drug you can take. And for me personally, every time I took a pill, I was reminded of the MS. And Lemtrada is a is a version of chemotherapy that puts you on a path to not be on drugs again. So I haven't taken an MS drug in seven years.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Right. So I took, I went and I basically did everything he did said, and I and I I got to a place, it was about a two years in where I was sort of at peace with it, and I stopped thinking about it all the time because I started to think I will be able to walk for you know, ever, right? Knock on wood or whatever. But I just, you know, it just slowly ebbed, right? But I was in a very dark place for a year or two.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

So how does this move into the weight loss? Because you briefly told me you're sure. I mean, you were, I'm sure you just started eating perfectly. I feel like I remember like we'd go out and all of a sudden it was just a chicken breast and blah blah blah. But how did how did the diet start? And then how did you did you go on GLP ones just to lose weight, or is it somehow connected to MS in the beginning?

SPEAKER_01 15:05

So I'm gonna pause the GLP thing, right? So the first day I knew I had MS, I started reading I I found a website and a book and a doctor in Australia called Overcoming Multiple Sclerosis, and they gave me a path where you know, like you can overcome this, and it doesn't, it's not the death sentence that everyone says it is, right? So part of that is to call it to make it easy, it's vegan, but it's really no saturated fat, right? No dairy, no meat. There's no saturated fat. And not having saturated fat is tough.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

And day one, I was like, okay, I'm in. So I I was, I'm not gonna say I was perfect, but I was dang near perfect for a year being a vegan. Wow. And I went to your boot camp then, same time. And I was like, I was I had the the the I was in a place so long where I needed to do that. Yeah, so I embraced it and I I think I got down to like 250. I lost 40 pounds maybe at the time. Right. And I started getting more in shape.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

And that was at before 40, 39. 35, 36. Oh, 35. Oh, it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Yeah, 36. So I, yes, but I was I I was in the best shape I had been in in my adult life. I was eating very clean. Yeah. I was in a terrible mental spot, right? I was in the darkness, like the the depression and that first. I mean, I could tell you, like, it was tough. I'd go home and I wasn't, I wasn't a great husband, I wasn't a great dad. I just put my nose in the books and I just read and I just I wasn't the same person. I was kind of like a shell of who I was for that, you know, a year. And then after when I met Dr. Legank and I started getting on that path where I like, okay, I can set my sights on something that's like scientific. I'm not like, oh, just vegan. Because again, I'm eating well and I've and I've and I'm technically, physically better, right? But I don't like I don't feel good. I was like depressed. I mean, it's depression, right? So there's a whole mental aspect of this that you got to get your mind around too. And I think personally, my experience with MS, getting your getting your head right and getting and not having that stress, because of course you have stress, right? I was just told I have this lifetime death sentence kind of thing. And I would there's no way to be like, oh, gee, that's gonna be fine. So, but once I got over that and my mind started clearing and I started getting at peace, and I was doing mindfulness, I was doing meditation, I like I I I chased every little thing I could do. I've done acupuncture, I've done a lot of stuff, and I finally got to a place where I was at peace with it. And when I my mind got right about it, honestly, most of the symptoms that I was experiencing subsided. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

And I would imagine that is to talk about psychological, you don't necessarily know when you're going into a depression, you don't know, is this my body shutting down because of MS? Am I tired because of MS or am I tired because of depression? That's right. So you don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

You don't know. I mean, really, it was it's like being inside of a really complicated puzzle that you got to work your way out of. Yeah. And you can't say, hey, get me out of this puzzle, right? You literally have to solve it for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

For yourself. So obviously support from outside helps, but they're not solving that problem. They're just that's right, giving you the space and the maybe taking away some of the outside stress or whatever, at least giving you the the freedom to to solve that problem, I guess. That's right. Because I would imagine with kids, with a wife, with a career, with where did y'all move in all of this?

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Was it were you it was pretty pretty far after that?

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Oh, it was after that, okay. A good bit after that. So you I moved.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

I moved to I moved to Kennesaw when I was 40, roughly 40. So it was a few years. So you were a couple years in, but still in the beginning, nowhere near as good as your I did the lenchada, but the the one of the points to get back to, because we're gonna try we're gonna move into the GLPs and the weight loss. I once I got my mind right, I got off the vegan diet and I felt I felt better mentally and I felt great. And I went back to eating the stuff that made me happy. Like, you know, eating vegan cheese and getting a vegan pizza from Mellow Mushroom, not quite the same.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

If you're vegan, cool, like more power to anyone that wants to follow that.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

If you enjoy that.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

If you enjoy it, but like it wasn't, it wasn't my path. Yeah, it did not, but I learned a lot from overcoming multiple sclerosis and going through that. And like the mind part is way more important than the diet part for me.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

But I was fatigued. I did gain the way back. You did gain the weight. So, you know, in three years ago at 46, I was pushing 300. And we had we my wife and I have a fake prenuptial agreement. It was kind of written as a joke, but one of the lines was 300 and I'm out.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

I feel like I've heard that story.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Right. And there's been a couple times where I was like, I'm not gonna step on that scale because I'm pretty, I'm pretty sure that's not gonna go well. Like there was a couple days where I'm like, uh there'd be like the two 299.5, you know, ooh, right. So I was I was I was a 300-pounder for a good chunk of a good many years.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

So then how'd that change? Where it's so you're feeling good MS-wise at this point, right? You're just heavy and not healthy.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Yeah, but I feel like I I feel good, I'm happy and like you're happy. I I'm back to I'm not I'm not like depress, depressive, sad Matt that's a different person. I'm I'm me again. Yeah, but I'm also out of shape. Have I have I gone through periods where I like, you know, I've done carnivore, I've done keto, I've done, I can lose 20 or 30 pounds on a fad diet in a heartbeat. Like literally.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Well, that's pretty good. Because I can lose 10 pounds in 10 days.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

I can lose, I used to be able to lose 20 pounds, like just like that. And but at the end of the day, I could also gain the weight backwards, right? It wasn't it wasn't life-changing. And I I wish there was like a good story here where I could tell you like I I hit this rock bottom and I did this thing, but this is what happened. My wife, all the women in our neighborhoods went to this med spa and they started taking GLP one. And they were paying like 400 bucks a month, they were all getting on it, they had their appointments, and my wife lost 20 pounds. And she was like, Oh, this is pretty awesome. Yeah, she was happier and I was like, Cool. And then in month two, she didn't, you know, it's it's it's its effectiveness wore off of that, right? So then I was like, hey man, you know, it's not really working, you know. Do you mind if I take that? Do you mind?

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Do you mind if I take half? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

So she was like, Okay, you can take half. And I lost like 30 pounds, like immediately. Like literally almost a miracle, right? And then, you know, we some of the people started saying, like, oh, I have gastro issues, like I'm having Bathroom issues, like I gotta stop taking it. So some people at work, some people it didn't. Yeah. And I kept and I was like, oh cool. I'll I'll take the whole dose then. Right. So I lost like 60 pounds within five, six months. Wow. No gastroissues. No nothing. Like no bad symptoms. And then she was like, hey, get your own. So I actually was like, okay, yeah, this is working. I'm gonna do it. So I went and got my own. I went to the medspaw and I was like, hey, you know, just fun fact, I've been taking this for a few months already.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Like so the med sponsors don't really, you just walk in, go, I want to lose weight. They're like, okay, sign right here. There's not, they don't really monitor.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

There's conversations and blood tests and everything, but like I'm sure there's others that don't do that. Right. Like I I feel like mine, mine was run by an a doctor, like an MD from Piedmont that had a side hustle slinging GLP. Pretty smart, yeah. Right. So, but it worked, right? And then then I I ended up, I think I was at about 65, 70 pounds down. And then I went to my neurologist and I was kind of worried. I was like, because it's gonna, it's obvious. The first thing they do is weigh you. And he came in and he's like, Oh, I was like, Yeah, I want to talk to you about the GLP. And he's like, Oh, tell me about it. And I told him my story, and he's like, huh. A third of the people lose 20 pounds and it stops working or they have issues. A third of the people, the side effects are too much for them to handle. And a third of the people, it's kind of a miracle. Yeah, it just works amazing and they don't have any issues and it's great. And it turns out you might be one of those third. He said, But as far as your MS goes, I think it's great. Like, obviously, there's no I can't, I can't write you a prescription for it, but like, you know, if it's working for you, do what you do.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

So could you get medical insurance to pay for it? Or if you were going to med spot, you weren't doing that, you were just paying cash. I wasn't doing it. Because you said your doctor wouldn't pay for it. And the reason I asked is because I went in and my doctor tried to prescribe it, the insurance company said no. And so it was like, okay, 500 bucks a month.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

It's a good question. I I don't have diabetes, right? So I didn't, I didn't, I mean, I didn't really chase it.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

I looked into it.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Yeah, I didn't press it either, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

And I was like, uh, I don't qualify for that. And it's the easy button. The med spa was not hard. So I did it. Right. Yeah, and it was, and I by the way, I'm still on it.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Yeah. So when when was this? How many years ago was this? Two.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

I've been I've been I've been at like 65 pounds down. Like that was real fast. Right. And then I lost about 20 pounds, 25 pounds over the next, you know, year year, basically a year in, I was down 80 to 90.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

And that's where I am now. And it's been it's been a little over two years.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Do you have your doses increased or plateaued? Or do you hit a weight? Like, did you ever have a weight goal? And then you know, I know I know they talk about microdosing and cycling on it. So was there I and I guess everybody's path is different, so it doesn't matter, but what was your path with this for the last two years or since you hit whatever your weight goal was?

SPEAKER_01 25:21

I was increasing my dosage and it was I was losing more. I that 20 pounds basically, that 25 pounds was because I increased the dose.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

And then I stopped losing weight and they increased my dose again. And then I started I like literally, I feel nothing. I have no symptoms. And I started to feel a little bit of something. I'm not saying it was like, oh, I have to live in the bathroom, or I just started to feel like a like my stomach was a little uneasy. I felt a like a little, I was like, maybe I'm a little nauseous, but maybe I'm not. Maybe it's because uh, you know, made an ice cream or whatever it is. Like I couldn't really pinpoint it, but I just had a general feeling of unease. So I backed off because frankly, I don't don't need it. I don't really, I don't have a goal weight that I haven't achieved.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Frankly, if you told me when I weighed three, if if at 300, I said, like right now I'm 220. I said, if I'm gonna be 220, I would have said, I'm gonna be skinny as a rail at 220, because like I don't 80 pounds, like that's crazy. You know, could I lose 20 pounds more? You know, yeah, maybe. I mean, but I don't I don't feel that. And my my blood pressure is great, my cholesterol's great, my every all my blood tests are great, and you know, I feel great.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

See, that's that's great. That's crazy that you're 220 because I had gotten up. I want to talk about this, the the shortcut, the stigma that it's the shortcut or the easy way out, because it really annoys me when people say that, because I don't talk about it, the cheating, yes. I got up to 220, and I'm hell almost a foot shorter than you, and I look back at photos, and I would try to diet, and and I'm not gonna say I'm the most disciplined person, but I exercise a lot. And I had a knee injury, and I would try diets, and and I just personally think that it's harder for the people that are talking about you're just cheating, just go out and exercise, just eat better. What the GLP ones do, I think some people are already have that naturally, and they don't have the battle that's not.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

You don't have to think that that's facts, right? Right. The GLP is a molecule that occurs in your body, right? And I obviously some people have more of it than others. So, like, like my my so when someone says you cheated, I'm like, okay, cool. Who did I cheat? Right, right? I didn't cheat me, yeah, right, because you know, being overweight, significantly over being morbidly obese my entire adult life, right? That was cheating me. Yeah, right. So now, you know, that I have good blood pressure and I have great cholesterol and you know I feel great, I can, you know, jogging doesn't hurt my soul. Right. You know, and and I don't I think but but my point too though is to cheat, you have to cheat somebody. And I got like I don't who are you cheating? Like that's the that's the point.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Yeah, and you're not it's not like I I guess I think of an anarchist or way, it's not like we're out here eating cake and oh, I'm taking this medicine just so I could eat pizza and cake all the time. Yeah, which is a stigma, and it's just not true because you know, and I didn't I didn't know a lot about it until I started doing more research just for this, just on how I kind of figured I it's weird that you took a medicine that you didn't even know how it worked, but I mean basically it make it slows your digestion down, and that's why a lot of people have stomach issues because the food is still in their stomach. Right. And so it was fascinating, it's just really slowing it down. So, and and here's another word, and I'm all over the place, but I'm excited about this because I I reduces food noise. Right. Have you heard that term before? So, food noise is for a lot of people, we think about food all the time. Like as soon as we're that our food is digested from that last meal, my mind starts thinking about what is my next meal, where can I get a snag? Ooh, I want this or that. Right. And what those GLP ones don't do is reduce that food noise, which is that desire for your next meal.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Sure. I mean, two two quick little things. First of all, I've been on business trips with people before that were in amazing shape. And I've even had people say, like, it's weird. I've been traveling with you for four days, and you eat the same that I weigh, and I look like this, and you look like that. And I'm like, Yeah, I don't I don't I don't have an answer. Like, but I I will say, like, I wasn't a snacker and I wasn't like donut guy or Oreo guy, but I cleaned my plate. I would fill my plate and I would clean it. Like I grew up that way. Like in my house growing up, you know, if you didn't finish before dad, like you better have your fork up. Like, you know, we we ate and we finished our plate and we ate our meals. And you know, you do that three times, you know, you know, it's like oomph, like a oomph more of food. And you do that every single meal every day, every day of your life, and you're and you know, you're not eating salads with chicken breast, you're eating, you're eating hamburger, cheeseburger, like whatever the good stuff is. That's what I ate. And I wouldn't say like I wasn't like eating two meals ever. Like that, you know, that's crazy talk.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Which I do like the fasting idea, which to me the GLP once really helped. I was a breakfast person every day. I woke up starving and always. And I took Manjaro for probably six, seven months and lost 30 pounds. And on my frame, that was a whole lot of weight. I've gained about 10 or 12 back, but I've pretty much maintained it. But I a big part of that is I've gotten away from breakfast. Like if I go to a hotel or I'm with friends or we're doing something and you go to breakfast, I love breakfast, still my favorite meal. Right. But on a normal workday, or if I'm getting up, I get ready, and I just don't eat breakfast anymore. I just I'm not hungry for it. And I felt like I always ate it because I was always told I had to eat it or I was supposed to eat it. I couldn't function if, you know, I remember my mom would say it's the most important meal, and you're not gonna be able to focus at school if you don't eat a big breakfast. So I've I've broken that stigma. And I think when I was doing it, I probably wasn't eating till noon. And now I probably eat about 10:30, but at least gets me past that 7 a.m. breakfast, then a 10:30 lunch or 11 o'clock lunch, and then a four o'clock snack and then dinner later. So I've probably cut out two meals by just doing that.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

What I enjoy about it is I never when I'm on when you're on a diet, you're sort of like in food jail, right? Like I can't, like, oh, I can't eat that. Yeah, I can't eat that, or I don't eat that. But now I eat whatever I want to. Right. I just happen not to want to. And like if if the fan, if if my kids make breakfast, hey dad, eat breakfast. Like, sure. Like a piece of bacon, yeah, a biscuit, I might eat half, and then like it's just like, oh, I'm not really hungry anymore.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

So I I don't know what that uh I don't know how to say that. That was the one thing that I noticed. Like, because I still people were like, oh, I don't ever want to not want or not enjoy desserts. I still love desserts, but at two bites, and I was like, all right, I'm good. Right. And that was shocking to me. Like it was, it was satiated, the right word. Whatever it was, I was satisfied on much smaller portions. It wasn't just that I was full or hurt, it it solved that where now, if I get, and I battle this now, not on it. If I eat, if you give me a big ass cheesecake, or we went to dinner with my brothers and they got two cheesecakes, they couldn't finish them, they left two halves. Well, they all sent them down to me and I finished every bit of it.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Where on a GLP one, that did not happen, wouldn't happen at all.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

But I eat ice cream almost every day. Yeah. I eat, I go get I go get the Ben and Jerry's fish food, by the way, and I'll I'll take a bite, maybe two. And I'm like, God, that was awesome. I loved it. That was great. I'm so happy. I don't want any more. Yeah. And I'm like, I but I don't even think like, oh, I'm full, I don't want any more. I just don't happen to want anymore. I put it back and I go about my day.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Back in the day, I was like, I need a bowl. I I didn't have Ben and Jerry's because you can't afford Ben and Jerry's when I ate what I ate. Yeah, did you ate a whole because I grew up you eat a bowl of ice cream. It's called a bowl of ice cream. It's not called, you know, who wants a spoonful of ice cream, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:49

But that's that's just not how it works. So GOP1s were first created or researched or whatever for diabetes. Whatever I read talked about it, heart doctors then fell in love with it. Obviously, we kind of talked a little bit about all the different things that they're testing, inflammation, everything else. So there's a gamut of things that now we believe that it treats. So how does it tie into MS or does it? Is there any research, or do you just what do you know about how do they relate?

SPEAKER_01 34:20

So they're I don't actually know that they're doing phase one yet, but they're researching it. They're in phase two on lupus, which is a similar autoimmune disease. It's in trials for alcoholism. In fact, I was at a I was at a healthcare thing a couple years ago, and they said that Medicare is worried about it. They actually they actually won't cover any of the GLPs because it's being indicated for so many things that'll literally bankrupt Medicare. Wow. Right? They're there I heard that too. You know, if everyone had to take it, it would be like it's a 20% reduction in heart events, 20% reduction in strokes. So you can almost indicate it and write a script if you have congestive heart issues. Right. Alcoholism, like, how do you how where do you draw the line? Right, it's yeah, it's it it's it's like this alleged wonder drug that does everything. I can't speak to any of that, but I I am confident that it definitely lowers systemic inflammation, right? And a hallmark of MS is systemic inflammation. People with MS have a significant, your body is always under load, right? So like I don't have symptoms, right? I can walk, but my aura ring and my sleep, my sleep technology that I track my sleep says that I have a very low HRV, which is heart rate variability, which means I'm continuously under stress. Like my body is always under inflammatory stress. And I don't know, like I've changed my weight, I've changed all my metrics, I've changed a lot of things. I still have MS. So I, for me, I am again open to more science, open to more reading, learning what the new thing is. But my plan is to stay on a low dose of GLP forever or as long as I can because I I'm convinced that it's helping. And, you know, I say that I'm symptom-free. That's because I don't tell people about it, but I still have symptoms. And I believe that my symptoms are like always lessened because of being on the GLP.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Right. Well, and I and I've listened to so many podcasts about it and and read and a lot of doctors that really don't want to believe in it are going, I can't explain it, but that person was taking it for weight loss, but they're no longer drinking, like you said. Right. They're doing that, but their anxiety is gone. And it was their anxiety tied to their weight, or was the is the drug removing the anxiety, which is not causing them to eat? Like, where is it in that? So when we talk about neurological diseases, and that's what they're saying, these things are fighting and winning on. That's right. And if you know, again, I was listening to something else, and they were just talking about like they're gonna laugh. We're gonna laugh at the GOP ones that are out right now, five years from now, because they're gonna be so much more focused and be able to just I don't know, wonder drug.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

I hate to say it, but they GLP3, which is Reddit True Tide, is gonna be FDA approved here in a couple months. And that's gonna be the allegedly that's the that's the game changer.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

Okay. Is that the one? Because I've heard that there's something coming, because right now the biggest negative on it is the muscle loss. Right. Because a lot of people are losing a lot of muscle. I don't, I'm sure when you just when you stop eating, you're starving the muscle. I don't know if you can speak to this on, well, if you just eat protein and exercise, eat, you know, whatever you eat, make sure it's protein so you're not losing muscle. I don't know if that's even a possibility or if it's truly targeting protein. I don't know the answer to that. But I did hear there's a new GLP one that is either not going to target the muscle or it's being tested and it's not supposed to have the same negative effects of tear and dessert.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Oh, exactly. All I do is regurgitate what I see or which here's what I think I know. GLP1 does not target protein, but it significantly curbs your appetite. So, you know, in a world where you're supposed to get anywhere from 0.6 to one grams of protein per kilogram of body weight or pound of body weight, it's almost impossible to get 220 grams of protein.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:39

But my understanding and I I believe this, if you eat a significant amount of protein and you work out and you're taking GLP1, you will not have muscle loss of any sort of significant. I'm not gonna say you won't lose any muscle, but like it's it's not the the problem is the calorie deficit that you're not overcoming with the correct macros. Yeah, right. The new one coming out is much less on appetite suppression. It's GLP3 because it has three different, it has three different mechanisms. It's got a little bit of appetite suppression, but it's got the GLP2 thing, which is the blood glucose lowering, and it's got visceral fat reduction, which is like internal organ.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Good lord, that's the new that's the that's the new buzzword now too. Every podcast is Retta. Visceral fat.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

All the all the Jim Bros talk about RETA. GLP3 is the one that's coming.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Okay. So are you, and again, I don't know if you know it. Are there differences in like Manjaro and Azempic? Is it just a formula that's different, or is it just a company that's packaging it pretty close to the same?

SPEAKER_01 39:47

I'm a little over my skis on that. Okay, and that's fine because I have to. I think GLP1s and trzepertide is GLP2, but I I think the GLP2 adds a different molecule. Okay. GLP3 adds an an add-on to the two adds another molecule. They're all similar. I mean, I'm a big advocate. Like I would say try it and see if it works. Because, you know, having some gastro issues that go away when you stop taking it is worth the the the being a one-third person that it's amazing and awesome.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

So really the only negative is that we don't know 10 years what what it could possibly happen. But so far, sure, we're three or four years in with this, and I've not heard any major studies of any. I mean, I'm sure there's some one-offs of people, this, that, and the other, but nothing a pattern. So well, I'd rather say that one in ten people had have tried a GLP one. You think that's accurate? Do you think that that's a lot to me?

SPEAKER_01 40:49

In the US, do I think you think it's just US? That's probably the rest of the 130 million people have taken a GLP? Have tried it. I I think it's I think it's possible.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

I put it this way, I don't think, no way.

SPEAKER_02 41:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

I I mean, I think it seems a little high, but I for sure think it's 15 million.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

Or 20. I mean, it's a lot, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:08

And now, and this comes off very judgmental, but you know, me admitting I've taken it before. I whenever I see an adult over the age of 40 that's lost 30 pounds, yeah, and people are like, what do you think they're doing? Do you think they're I'm like, yes. Like, I'm not gonna ask them, I don't care. One, but I I just don't, I think it's extremely difficult. I mean, extremely difficult at 45, 50 years old to lose 20 pounds without this type of medicine.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

And especially keep it off.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

And keep it off, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

Like you see someone that's like you lose a lot of weight, and the next time you see them like, did they did they lose weight? I don't, I don't know. I'm confused. Yeah, but like someone that loses a lot of weight and then it doesn't come back, you're like, I mean, it's a reasonable assumption. But again, I don't have a stigma. I'm more like, good job. Yeah. Oh, I'm I'm the same way. Now, someone that loses all the weight, if someone lost the weight I lost without the GLP, maybe maybe that guy could call me a cheater. I'd accept that. Because because that guy Well, he's just a bigger badass. That don't make that don't take away from what I'm saying. It's for sure harder. Much harder. And respect, right? Yeah, like awesome. Good job. Keep keep it, keep you do you. I'm gonna do me. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

Like it's I just think uh most of the people, I guess, when I have these thoughts are people that I've known for the last 10-15 years. Yeah, I did boot camp with you. I saw you exercise and do the five, you know, oh, a handful of protein and a cup full of, and you did all that and you lost eight pounds over 60 days, and now you just lost 25 pounds in at 10 years later with less exercise. Like, and I'm not in their house, I don't know what they're doing, but I just I I the reason I'm saying this, and I love this conversation is because I want that stigma to be lifted. You know, if hopefully people aren't using it in the same way of uh anorexia, like you're a ladies, you're a 120 and you're like, I want to be 115. Sure. Well, then you've got mental issues, you need to deal with that. But for a lot of us that my knees hurt and everything hurt, and to lose 20 pounds and be able to run again or get back on a bike again, yeah, it's a win whim.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

It's sort of like I mean, I don't know anything about anorexia, but what I if you're I don't either, if you're someone that's like keep upping your dose, like, oh, I need more, I need more, I don't know. That's probably a problem, right? You need to like self-assess, right? But you know, I'm on the lowest dose that I can take, and that's my plan. Like just ride that out because it works for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

And I did read something that was talking about, you know, there's a stigma behind, oh, you're gonna have to take it forever, you're just gonna gain the weight back. And and then somebody argued back, well, if you uh had to have heart medicine because you had high blood pressure, no one would say anything about you having to take that medicine forever.

unknown 43:59

But

SPEAKER_00 44:00

There's also the cycling and the reducing and plateauing and all that. So I think if you you know set that goal and you're not chasing some ridiculous you know weight or whatever. I don't know. Yeah. So how does this affect you as a leader and a CEO of a healthcare company? Going through MS, the weight loss, the the whole battle. What is it? How's that made you a better CFO? I keep saying CEO, which CFO is more important.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

I think the best way to I I when I lived in Florida for a couple of years, this was like 20 years ago, 20, 23 years ago. I worked with a lady in Florida. And then I recently I hired her a year and a half ago to work with me in my current job. She's our VP of finance. And we were talking one day, and I just happened to mention, like, you know, what's what's different? Because like we didn't, we didn't talk or hang out much in that those period. She was like, you know what? You're a lot more compassionate than you used to be. And I immediately thought, that's exactly right. Like right now, today, I spent my entire day meeting with our healthcare brokers, and it wasn't about saving money for the company. It wasn't about nickel the diming. It was about how do we spend the money we're spending now, but increase benefits to people? How do we do a wellness program that actually means something? Like not check-a-box wellness where we can get a discount on our fees if we if we get people to send in paperwork and pencil with this. No, how do we actually get everyone to be healthier? How do we actually provide better care? How do we get 100% of our people? And by the way, I I work in a physical therapy therapy in nursing homes. Like we have people that are caring for people all day long, but won't go get a physical. How do we get 100% of our people to go get a physical?

SPEAKER_02 45:58

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

And I I think about that all the time, and I and I have a burden for that to be better for all of our people. Yeah. That's my best example. I can't say that it made me like a bad thing. No, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

Compassion is pretty huge. I mean, that's that comes with age, comes with facing a life-threatening illness. I mean, I was humbled. But also, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Like you could say, like, I was humbled by that.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

We all think we're gonna live together, live forever.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

Right. Like there's no And especially when you're in your 20s and 30s, 60s, you get like, oh, you have MS. I'm like, yeah. That that that changes your perspective quite a bit.

SPEAKER_00 46:31

Well, that's awesome, and I don't know how this relates, but I just I remember a conversation with it was a previous company I worked at, and we were just talking, and I just our head of sales for the next company, the nation, was out of our office, and he was talking about how our insurance was so high down here because of the people in the north smoked a lot more. Like our company was out of New Jersey. I think a couple of the headquarters were, and he he was just saying they smoke so much more that it causes the company's health insurance rates to be higher because our headquarters was. I don't know if all that's true if he was bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

We have better food down here though. We have biscuits and gravy.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

Oh yeah, but we're not smoking.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

No, we do we're not smoking.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Smoking's gotta be one of the worst things you could possibly do, right? Is that still bad or is that coming back?

SPEAKER_01 47:21

No, no. Uh smoking is always bad.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

Yes, always. Vaping, can you vape? No.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

I think smoking your lungs is not good.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

No, it's not. It's not. Last question. What would you tell somebody that they're first diagnosed with MS? What would you tell them if they sat here and said, I just found out today, Matt? Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

First of all, take a deep breath. It's it's it's not there's nothing anyone can say that will make you happy and sleep great tonight, right? Like this is your first day, it's it's gonna be rough for several months. But you know, get your head right and own your own path, is what I would say. I think. Because you're gonna get all kinds of opinions. You could go to three doctors and they'll give you three different things. And at the end of the day, you have to make the choices for your health, right? Like I chose to drive three and a half hours once a month when I was on this other treatment to rural Alabama when I could have gone 25 minutes, right? Right. But that path felt right, and I was convicted of it. Like I knew it was the right path, and it and I owned it. Like it wasn't, and again, if something like in this the GLP example, like if if five years from now GLP is terrible and they say, like, oh my goodness, it's gonna cause you all these things, I have to own that. Yeah, like I I had the benefit of what it gave me when it gave it to me, and I'm at peace with that. Right. So I would just I would say own your own path. And just because like the doctor is not God. Like the doctor does not like doctors know surprisingly little about everything, right? So I I all the time go to my doctor and say, like, uh best doctor, I just talked about how great he was. Yeah, I all the time say, like, hey, I read this study, and he's like, Oh, I don't know anything about that.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

Yeah, like really, because there's not a lot of studies that, like, you know, they don't have time to fully all the new stuff. I know that's part of their job for sure. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

I also don't have to see 200 patients a day. Right. So, like, yeah, and it's no aspersions on him, but like own your own path, yeah, and and and know that you know you're accountable for those decisions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

I was listening to again this diary CEO, and he had a lady on that was talking about all vitamins and all, and her she was like, any, he said, All right, what are the top five supplements in order of importance? If you're gonna take any of them, start here. And creatine, I guess, is another buzzword now. They're pushing creatine on, yeah, not pushing it because I all the things I've read sounded pretty awesome. Yep. But creatine was number one, and then I don't remember the name of this vitamin, but it was all about the liver and and it was good, and that's kind of been part of my mom's problem was her liver is not functioning well with the cancer medicine. And so I'd asked the doctor about it. And I'm talking about this lady is a national expert on a multi-million view podcast talking about this is her number two vitamin, he had never heard of it. And and I was fine with that because he turned and bam, he just searched. He was like, There are no studies currently where it's linked to cancer, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I do see where this is, and I I was like, wow, that was it was great that he was able to turn and look, but just to your point, he he had not ever heard of the vitamin at all. I don't know what it was, but I had not heard of it either. So, but that was her number two after creatine, and then was like C and D and you know, all those other things that we have to have. So I appreciate this so much. I uh we could probably continue. And is there anything I left out? Because we talked about a lot of things. I know there were some things that you wanted to say or just discuss. Is there anything that that I might have missed or glazed over too fast that that you'd like to just tell people?

SPEAKER_01 51:16

I do want to say for anyone that has MS that's watching this, I'm lucky. I know that. Like, right? I don't I've never had a bad step because of MS. I've never had mobility. What do you mean by a bad step? Like a like a like it's typically you you usually like like you might fall bad step, or I see someone with like their foot hanging and they have a cane, and I'm thinking they probably have MS. Okay. Like, right, if there's some telltale science, and I haven't had that. And I don't like I don't I hear, you know, I I'm on a bunch of message boards, I'm on a bunch of Facebook groups, and I read a lot of it. And just because like I'm not up here saying, like, oh, you should do what I did. Like it's great. Like I I want to acknowledge that there's a GLP1s do not cure MS. There's a ton of luck involved. Yeah. So that's all I'd I think that's good.

SPEAKER_00 52:04

Yeah. Well, I mean, you say luck, you're you're an extremely intelligent person, probably one of the smartest people I know. And that's probably because of your aptitude to learn and to research. So I know you're saying it look it's luck, and it probably is by chance your body is reacting, but it's probably reacting to a lot of things that you are doing because you've done the research and put yourself in the right position. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

I mean, the thing is, like, I guess I think that's a good point. I am acknowledging that I have been lucky. Yes. But don't think, oh, it's just luck, right? Right. Do the things. Yeah. Read the books, engage in the studies. Like, you know, the studies have changed. I honestly haven't done a lot of the studies in the last six or seven years because I feel like I'm on a great path and I don't like I don't need to be in that world all the time.

SPEAKER_02 52:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 52:54

But but yeah, it's luck, but also help yourself out, right? Like do everything you can. Do do everything. Like I've done, you wouldn't believe the stuff I've done. I've done hyperbaric stuff, I've done acupuncture. I was a vegan for a year. I I spent hundreds of dollars a month on all kinds of crazy supplements. Like if someone said they did it and it helped them, I went and bought all the pills and I took them.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

Did you do ivermectin? Does it cure? No.

unknown 53:21

No.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

A lot of people are, I mean, and I'm not that was not supposed to be smart, Alec, at all, because you know, when when people get to a certain point with cancer, then the ivermectin con conversation comes up. And and then there's probably plenty of examples of where people have had success with ivermectin. And again, uh no relation to what we're talking about here, but I threw it out as a joke and I want to retract it as a joke because if things don't go well with my mom, that is definitely an avenue that we're gonna try. Right. Like you said, we're gonna try everything we can to make sure you know she lasts forever. So all right. I already did my clothes, so I don't really have a wrap up now. It's such a good exit, and you you nailed it, and I kept talking. So thank you. All right, take care. Thank you. Oh shit, what eight for me?