Passing Time: Lions Enter Their Best Era! - Training Camp Preview - S2E55 - 7/22/26

🦁 Detroit Lions Training Camp is officially here! In Episode 55 of Passing Time: Detroit Lions Talk, Brian and Rob break down the biggest storylines heading into camp and ask the questions every Lions fan is talking about.

🏈 This episode includes:
• Are the Lions entering the greatest era in franchise history?
• Is this Brad Holmes' deepest roster yet?
• The biggest training camp position battles (WR3 vs. Left Guard)
• Derrick Moore vs. Penei Sewell—the matchup we're watching every day
• Why Detroit's defense could be faster and more aggressive than ever
• Rob's bold prediction: Sam LaPorta finishes as a Top-3 NFL tight end
• Did the Texans accidentally prove Brad Holmes was right about David Montgomery?
• Bill's Bullet Points: Levi Onwuzurike, Luke Altmyer, Jadeveon Clowney, roster sleepers, and more
• Our Super Bowl X-factor that nobody is talking about

Do you think the Detroit Lions are legitimate Super Bowl favorites?

👇 Let us know in the comments:
What's the ONE under-the-radar thing that has to happen for Detroit to win the Super Bowl?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

You're listening to Passing Time, a Detroit Lions podcast. We're one pride and all grit with a passion for Detroit Lions football. Whether you're between meetings, between classes, sitting in traffic, or just relaxing at home, if you have time to pass, pass it with passing time. Detroit Lions Talk.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

You're on the clock. And you're passing time with us. A D Detroit Lions Podcast. I'm Rob. I'm Brian. Episode number 55. 55, Brian. Uh training camp is here. We're right around the corner, right on our doorstep. The wait is over. There's actually like real post NFL draft news coming out, Brian.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

I am excited, and we took a little bit of a hiatus throughout this summer, but we are ready to talk about some Detroit mines.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Brian's been spending a lot of time on the diamond coaching, multiple kids. Yep. When I say multiple, more than two, um, through travel ball and all-stars and doing all the things. And uh, you know, I've been waiting in the wings, man. I've been sitting here in this chair on those nights waiting for him to call me.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

I I I I keep telling him though that that that phone goes both ways here, pal.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Oh man, I I only like to receive. I'll stop there. All right. Uh so the way it's over. Training camp's here. Um, but before we get any news out of training camp coming right up, uh, we have some of the biggest storylines over the last few weeks. Um, some really interesting hot takes. Uh Bill's even got some bullet points he wants to share with us tonight.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Ready to rock and roll.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yeah, so uh a fun podcast tonight. We're gonna keep it you know 35, 45 minutes, um, just like normal, and we're just gonna get we're the goal is here to just just prime that pump, man. Football season. We're sitting here in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and the night is getting to like 58 degrees, and I'm like, I'm starting to feel it, man. And it's like it's bonfire weather, it's sweatshirt weather.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

You can you don't have to sweat like crazy when you walk out the door.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

It's inverse outfit weather. You know what that is?

SPEAKER_02 2:23

You know what inverse outfit is shorts at the bottom, sweatshirt on the top. It's t-shirt on the bottom, jeans on the bottom.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

More of the shorts and the and the and the long sleeve top, but like, yeah, it's it's the inverse. Uh, you you're you're catching along here. Uh it's the best kind of outfit. So um, so we're fired up and uh we're we're gonna kind of kick it out with some light-hearted stuff, um, and then get into the deeper stuff a little bit later on. So um B Mike's are the Lions right now, uh as we enter camp, are the Lions entering their best era of football?

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Hi, it's a it's a question mark right now, and for me, it's it's uh it that's hard to say yes. Why? Because you you remove a guy like Frank Ragnow from your offensive line, which you had one of the best offensive lines in all of football, and you replace it with a Graham Glasgow last year, and then you tried to rectify that with a Cade Mays this year. Um, it's a to be determined right now. So, in my opinion, are we entering the best era? I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful, but right now we still got some proving to do.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Oh, Brian, you you were just you know, you're you're a hedger, right? You should go run a fund in New York. It would be called the hedge fund because um because you're not willing to commit either way, but there to me, there there is no doubt the lions are fired up, they're that they're pissing vinegar coming off of last season. Um and this is from the looks of it, probably when healthy, um, we're talking mid to late season, the best looking roster I've seen from the Detroit Lions.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Yeah, I the offense for sure, like offensive side of the football. You look at that top to bottom and you're like, okay, uh, you know, I'm I'm excited. I'm excited. You know, you you talk about the Cade May, I talk about the Cade mazes and uh the question marks there, but what they've done to revamp that old line and and the tools um and weapons that they continue to to bring out there, it it's gonna be scary. Jared Goff is you know rolling into the prime of his career. Uh I'm in Rob Brown, I'm in Ross St. Brown is not backing down. He is, whether you want to argue or not, a top wide receiver in the league.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

No doubt. Don't argue that.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Save your arguments for something else. Sure. Uh J Mo, like, can you look, can you find another a better wide receiver two? Um, you know, it's it's it's debatable that he might be one of the best wide receiver twos in the league. So um you look at that and then you add a Tesla who is gonna come into year two at looking looking strong, looking continuing to to to to grind out his craft, right? To get better. And uh a healthy Sam Laporta, uh a Bel Cow that will be Jameer Gibbs. You know, this this is looking good.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Brad Holmes is transitioned now from drafting and building stars and and trading, you know, you got Goff trade, but building stars to now building depth around those stars, which is which is very, very interesting. You have Detroit's core, you mentioned Goff entering his quarterback prime, but you have and that's older for quarterbacks, but you have the core athletes on the roster entering the prime of their athletic careers right now. Yeah, um the expectation from us fans, you know, it's hard coming off a really uh tough season last year, but like the expectation isn't to make the playoffs like it was for decades. The expectation is to make the Super Bowl and win. Win the Super Bowl, right? Like, so that's that's great. I mean, this roster is it just feels deeper than any roster that we've had of the Dan Campbell era, and the Dan Campbell era has been the best era of Detroit Lions football in our in our lifetimes. And and Brian's going, you know, his doctor said he has to, he's of the age to get a colonoscopy now, right? So of our lifetimes, you know, if you are of that era um of you're just being recommended, no medical, no family history, but you have reached the age of you know, I don't know what they do, you fast, and they give you this magical elixir, and you get rid of everything, and then you get something shoved high and deep, right? Yeah. So uh in that era, Brian, we are we're in the we're in the golden age.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

And and it's hard to argue. I mean, if you see if you see a winning season from your 2026 Detroit Lions, then then yeah. Yeah, you're you're looking at um uh a Lions roster, a Lions team with a Lions coach, and a Lions ownership that is all heading and rowing in the right direction.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

When you see the winning season, you will know.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

When you see it.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Um and I think you know, it's burned the boats. It's burned the boats this year. Um, and and the lions are um they they gave up some of the the media sessions, they gave up, you know, there's no hard knocks videotaping, it's uh there's no dual scrimmages.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Yeah, you're not seeing the fluff, you're not seeing the the the frills, you're not hearing Dan talk all about you know highly about all of his players and the UDFAs that they brought in and the you know quarterback threes who are who are making you know making you uh you turn your head. You're you're you're hearing that this team is willing to get to work and they're they're they're doing it the right way.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

You know what it reminds me of, Brian? And you and you know, if you're listening to the podcast and you've gotten to know me over the one plus years, or maybe you know me in in RL, which the kids call real life. Real life, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, this reminds me a lot of I'm a Michigan fan, right? So this reminds me a lot of Michigan football. Uh hired Harbaugh, the the hype train was crazy. He signed a couple recruiting classes, one being like the top one in the nation is the year they brought Rashawn Geary in and a bunch of these guys doing signing with the stars and doing all these fluff pieces, and then you know, the year of COVID, you know, uh Michigan goes like three and six, and they opted out of a bunch of games, they were just terrible. Um and Harbaugh was humbled, and he he just didn't think this was gonna happen. So he decided no fun signing with the stars, no Ric Flairs, no Ric Flair in the crowd, man, and he just kind of submarined it and locked it down, and what emerged was beating Ohio State, getting to the playoffs, winning a championship, and kind of holding to that same pedigree and integrity. And I kind of feel like the Lions went through the same thing in a different stage of life where they they they they started reading the clippings, started buying the hype, started showing up on you know every commercial, doing the things, and then they got humbled last year, and then it's been quiet. And I think what's gonna come out is is is a cage raccoon, you know, that you're gonna release to the wild. I like it.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

I like it, and I hope so because uh, you know, what we saw last year was not what we've come to know from the Detroit Lions that that hungry, gritty, wanting to to scratch and claw for every yard kind of kind of team. Um, it almost seemed like a team that was deserving, right? And they expected um it to be given to them because they they made it. Um, and now it's a team, like you said, is but that's been humbled and is needs to get back to their roots of blue collar, nose to the grindstone, getting after it, fighting for every yard, and uh doing it the right way.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

So I I love that. And this transitions perfectly into kind of the next topic I want to talk about is ESPN just put out a um kind of rankings for talent under 25. And Detroit's been well represented. They do this every year in this ranking, and this year, when I say well represented, they've been in the top five pretty much every single year here. And that's a you know, hey, cheers to Brad Holmes. Yeah, that means you're drafting well, kid. Alright. So this year, we're in the mid-20s, Brian. Does that sound alarming to you that we are in the mid-20s of talent 25 and under?

SPEAKER_02 11:20

It it it only alarming only alarming when you think of the youth, right? But your youth is it's not old. Your youth right now is like you said, in its prime. So what we need to do is continue to draft well, and I'm hoping that we are doing so. You know, you you got your Blake Millers, and you you got you know guys coming out of the woodwork that uh hopefully are gonna, you know, take on those roles um and take over for that youth movement. But right now, our our best guys like a Penny Sewell are 25. They're not under 25, but they are 25.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Aiden Hutchinson. Aiden Hutchinson's Brian Branch can't qualify because he's he's not in the active caroster. Jameson Lum, yeah. Sam Laporta.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

They're all right there at that 25. They're not old, they're in their prime. And so when you are looking at a team that that has the youth as well as the experience, this is where it crosses, and this is where I think that we start to bypass some of those other teams that may have a youth and talent, but we have youth, talent, and experience.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

So, would you rather have the NFL's best collection of 22-year-old talent and show up on one of these charts, or would you rather have some of these guys aging into their prime and maturing in football?

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Right now, that's a rhetorical question. Right, right now, what you want is this. You want guys that have been there, have seen it, both the good and the bad, and know how to come across and get out the other side.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

So yeah, amen to that, brother. All right, so we're gonna just this is gonna be a little bit different show. We're gonna we're gonna pop fire around here a little bit, Brian. Um, I want a couple little uh takes from you. Um I want a couple position groups here that you think are the biggest camp battles that we're gonna be podcasting about over the next few weeks.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Sure. Uh well, number one, top of my brain right away is that left guard position, right? Is Christian Mahogany the guy? Is he gonna lock it down, or are you gonna get guys like Miles Frazier, Drew Scruggs, or Brian Barch or Ben Barch, sorry, to uh to push you know Christian Mahogany into either being a better version of himself or are they gonna overtake him?

SPEAKER_01 13:39

I I think we will be happy if mahogany wins it and he wins it going away, right? But you do hear things like Juice Scruggs can really move into center, he could play left guard, right guard. The dude can be a chameleon on the offensive line if we need him.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Sure, and then you want that depth, but do you want that guy starting?

SPEAKER_01 14:02

You probably don't want him starting, you know. Maybe you I think the most likely thing you hear here is Miles Frazier is a beast, and he's really channeling hard for that guard spot.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Yep, and that's and that's most the most likely scenario if a scenario like this comes up comes out, right? Is it Miles Frazier turns into what you know we a late round draft that is just blossoming, right? Got a year of experience, he got a training camp under his belt, he's healthy, and he is ready to to start mashing some faces.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

So, yeah, I like that a lot. So, um what about as we're entering camp, Brian? What are some matchups that you're just kind of like, man, like, and and maybe it's not a fair matchup, maybe it's not a matchup that like like you think who's gonna win this? Is it like the immovable force versus the unstoppable object? But just like if this guy goes up against this guy, I want feedback on this guy. Just to kind of you have anything that jumps up to you?

SPEAKER_02 15:05

I mean, the the first thing that we've talked about, and that I think that that jumps off the page right now is we've seen the Aiden Hutchinson, Panay Seul, Panay's right tackle, uh Aiden Hutchinson off the edge, but now Pine to the left. Does that mean a Derrick Moore Panay Sewell matchup? Are you gonna see uh Panay Sewell humble Derek Moore or are you gonna see Derek Moore win some reps?

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Yeah. Um, you know, the the the tough thing here, uh, you know, it I guess let me ask you this, and then I'm gonna I'm gonna respond to this because I don't want to give away what I think is a good good piece here. If Derek Moore wins 25 to 35% of these snaps, what's your reaction? Because there's a position switch in a rookie.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

I'm not gonna lie, I'm I'm concerned about Pene Sewell a little bit more than I'm impressed with Derek Moore.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Yeah, okay, yeah. That's very fair. Because you took a guy that was a perennial all pro and you flipped him, right? Like you would everything was great over here, you know, like you had everything good and then you you you changed him up, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Um or should you be thrilled that Brad Holmes unearthed another guy, traded up for another guy that's gonna come in and be a difference maker in potentially year one?

SPEAKER_02 16:28

If if that's the case, and you're saying that Derrick Moore is over overproducing, overplaying Panay Seul, he's outplaying Panay Sewell, I that that to me is that that's an amazing find, right? Brad Holmes, use your flowers, and uh, you know, let's get a look at a few more of those things. But uh I I just I I'll believe it when I see that.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Yeah. Alright. Um, you know, put me down for I don't think you can mess Pinnae Sewell up. I think like and and you can always make that transition back, right? Like there they're that you can you can be weak at left tackle with somebody else if Pinnae is struggling over there. Um to me it's a it's a very good sign that Derek Moore has found a way as a rookie to be the guy that's been on all pro teams, uh maybe playing slightly and learning again, but he's not he's not not played left tackle either. So um I think it's a good sign. We'll see. So um that being said, let's stick with the defense here. Calvin Shepherd, is the defense quietly changing?

SPEAKER_00 17:42

I hope so.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Um, and and the reality is is I think Calvin Shepard needs to be able to morph and redesign itself into what they have. They can't force a square peg into a round hole. Um, if they don't have the guys that that can play primarily man, if they don't have guys that can play your base defense, then you have to be able to adjust and play with your strengths. And I this is gonna be crazy, right? This is gonna this is gonna be something that I think is might be might be hot takey, but bringing in a Drew Petsing, who if you go back in pods, I was not terribly excited about when the initial sign in there. Um, but bringing in a Drew Petsing and having that mentality in the coach's room where hey, I'm going to play to my strengths. I'm going to do what it is. If it if that means I have three tight ends, I'll run 13 personnel. If it means I have one, I'm gonna run 11. Right? So ultimately, I'm going to do what's best for my team with what we have, and I'm going to find the matchups from what I have in order to exploit the other team. I'm hoping that that type of mentality rubs off in order to have Kelvin Shepard to go, like, I don't need to run man 90% of the time. I don't have to stick into base. If it means that my personnel says I go to nickel, I go to nickel. If it says that I go to base, I go to base. If it says I go to man, I go to man. If it says I go to if this game says I have to go to zone, I'm going to zone. That's what I want to see from Kelvin Shepard. I want to see a chameleon. I want to see a master of all, not just one piece of that defense. And if that's able to happen, that's exactly what I think needs to happen from the Detroit Lions.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

And I think they've they've empowered them. I think they they have more depth, better depth than we've seen in years. Um, I feel like the personnel they're bringing in seemingly is more athletic. They're they're they're they're taking chances on guys with like profiles that are first round type profiles that haven't worked out in other places that are uber athletic, that they can plug in and maybe they can fit a role in this defense, and then they can bring this depth off the bench for certain situations.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

And and that's where the the mastermind needs to come into play because um it's gonna take a ton of organization, it's gonna take a ton of coaching, and it's gonna take a ton of responsibility by the players in order to put those pieces directly into the the puzzle that they need to be into at the right time. Um, because you know you take a misstep here and there or early on, and the crowd starts chirping. I don't want you to have to revert back to your old ways and um and and lose your confidence, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Stick to your guns, find what works, and get after it. Oh, I like man, Brian's we're getting fired up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so let's go, let's step away from the lines a little bit. Let's talk about next line.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

All right, so did the Texans accidentally validate Brad Holmes? So there's a report today that came out, and you can look it up, um, where the Houston Texans basically said uh Woody Marks and David Montgomery are the starting running backs, and they're gonna split time, and they are the new version of Sonic and Knuckles. So uh let's just step away from that. What's your instant reaction to that?

SPEAKER_02 21:18

You know, my instant reaction is that David Montgomery was still happy with Sonic and Knuckles. What David Montgomery was not happy was with was just Sonic. And so I think the the problem with last year is Wait, wait, he was Knuckles. I understand that. Okay, alright. Alright, well I'll I digress. I understand that. So what happened last year is you lost the Knuckles portion of that duo. Oh, okay, I see what you're doing. And we we were leaning more and more and more on Sonic because we have a star in the making, and you lost your duo, right? So I think David Montgomery. Is very happy with being a duo. What he doesn't want to see is a solo act, and he's not the the lead, the lead in that solo.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Yeah, okay. I get it. Sorry, sorry to front run you on that one. No, no, no worries. Um, I just think this is a very interesting story that came out today. You know, we're recording this. Uh, this is a Wednesday. Um, we're chasing midnight here, Brian.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Um, and Woody Marks. If you look at PFF, uh, and I did a quick pop on this, um, PFF ranked David Montgomery much higher than Woody Marks last year.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Like, we you you look back on our pods, man. David Montgomery's the man. David Montgomery is an amazing back who is an amazing compliment to a guy like Jameer Gibbs, right? The problem is that we weren't giving him his due, we weren't sharing that role. Um, and uh I think you know, uh a guy as talented as David Montgomery wants to be featured, he wants to be given some of his flowers, and when he doesn't get them, he's gonna get disgruntled. And I think that that's what happened.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

So, I mean Isaac Pacheco came in, right? Mm-hmm or Isaiah Pacheco, sorry, I apologize on that. Um we were talking a lot about your son Isaac. Yeah, um he came in, and if he can be a, you know, I I think the lines are at a point where they Sonic is, you know, he put him up on stage and he sings so well, he does all the things so well, and it's hard to take him out, right? So, like maybe we just need a like a really uh backup knuckles, right? But we got something for him, right? Like the Brad Holmes went out, and there's not a lot of people trading for running back twos out there. You you can pull the list, please feel free to comment for for a different GM that's traded their second running back for assets that are actually impactful to the team, right? There's not a lot. Um, so that came back, and what I think is Montgomery maybe was viewing himself as a traditional RB1, a 25 carrier game workhorse. Um and the Lions were playing them very well like Jamal Williams. I mean, the the Lions had uh a really good role for him, he got upset. And I wouldn't be surprised if Pacheco, who's here on a is a is a one year, is a two year if he ends up going somewhere else after this year on a decent because the Lions will plug him in to the right spots and teams will see a revival of a of a dead asset.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

So do you think, like based on that, do you think David Montgomery's career is on the downside, such as what happened to Jamal Williams when he left Detroit?

SPEAKER_01 25:12

I don't think it's gonna be Jamal Williams-esque, where you basically put him on the back of a milk carton, right? Yeah, but I think that the peak of David Montgomery's career was the 2024-2025 season.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Yeah, I can see that. Um, I agree. I I do think that David Montgomery has more in the tank. Um, I think he has more to offer the Houston Texans than Jamal Williams had to offer the New Orleans Saints. Um, and I think right now, um I think Isaiah Pacheco is a lesser, like you said, a lesser back than David Montgomery. Um maybe a version of that, but I think Isaiah Pacheco also is going to be happy with his role. He's hungry for that role. He is not gonna be disgruntled with the role that we will be giving him in playing sparingly, but also contributing to this Detroit Lions team.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

And I I think the the the kind of the the word in the street with with the Pacheco contract was like he had other teams willing to give him a little bit more, whether that was money for one year or term, um, but he saw the Lions as a potential launching pad for continuing his career a couple more years. And and man, if it works out for him, that means it works out for the Lions, right? Absolutely. What a great sign. And and Brad Holmes talked about that. We we put this on a pod, you know, go back to like somewhere in our mid-40s podcast, we talked a lot about Brad Holmes' interview where he talked about free agents that leave Detroit, and because we've drafted so well, we've done such a good job with free agency that like we can't re-sign everybody, and that's a compliment to the real. I mean, really, he wanted to say to himself, but like to the franchise, to the organization, whereas some of these guys are gonna go on and get bigger contracts again or third or second contracts, where we can't retain everybody.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

We can't retain everybody. We do have to go in some of those contracts within our restraints and find guys that are cost effective, find guys that are hungry, find guys that want to prove themselves. And I think that that's where Brad Holmes makes his money, right? Not only does he make his money with some of those draft picks, but he also makes his money by signing some of these guys like Al-Kahim Mohammed, who comes out of the woodwork, who has been discarded by other teams, but is is put into a proper role and coached up by this great coaching staff in order to produce in a team like Detroit.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

And just drafts well, you know. He certainly some misses, but um man, I selfish plug, but I think Jimmy Rolder and Keith Abney are gonna be guys that we talk about. And I don't I didn't even want to bring those guys up. Um, but I am as high on that area of the draft as I've been in a long time.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

Um because Roller's a Michigan guy, Abney's an Arizona State guy, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Like, so we're we're just talking about finding value in that draft. And um I I can't wait to revisit it, Brian.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Yeah, I really like to recap after this season.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Episode 75 is gonna be a great episode.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

But if you go back, like we were still looking at a couple drafts ago and going, man, we is um Ennis Raystraw going to produce. We know Terrier Arnold is no longer part of this team anymore. You know, that that draft class is still like hurting this team.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

I want you to go back and revisit draft classes, right? Like, and like draft classes are a lot like starting pitchers in Major League Baseball. So you can win a Cy Young and you can go, you know, 17 and 9, right? And win a Cy Young. You could be in my profession and um be a stock picker and a portfolio manager, and you can go 17 and 9, and and you're a Hall of Famer, right? Some people are so hard in their GMs. The draft is such a crapshoot. Um, even even in the first round, you know, you get past the top 10 picks, and it is it's hard. It's hard, right? So, like we but you know, revisionist history is so easy. Our armchair GMs, you you and me, we sit back, and it's just so hard.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

And I'm I'm not gonna say that I disagreed with them in the moment because you looked back at being able to move up and get a guy that was dropping a little bit but still had value, especially for the Detroit Lions. I got Terry on Arnold, and then backing that up with another guy that you knew our DBs at the time needed depth, needed uh resurgence, needed a youth movement, and then he gets up, goes back and gets uh an end of Strake straw, who um we thought could could also combat for for a starting role, right? Um, and so all of these things were happening in the moment, and I was in in 100% support of that. Um, but now looking back, you're like, oh man, wait, we missed.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

So yeah, it's tough to hit them all. So um with that, let's let's transition here, Brian. I'm gonna let you lead this segment here. Um, but but Bill Bill's back and he's got some bullets. Hey, welcome, waking up from the dead. It only took us being off for a couple weeks, yeah. Sure. And uh he he jumps in. So what's Bill got to say?

SPEAKER_02 31:05

Oh, Bill's excited just for football, right? Bill's excited for training campus to start. He's looking at guys like Anthony Lucas and Eric Hunter to uh to compete, don't mind me, to compete for for those those spots, those edge rusher spots. Not because they have to start, but because they're pushing veterans to be better, the iron sharpening iron, kind of steel sharpening steel, um, and it's a great sign for depth across the board here. So good?

SPEAKER_01 31:40

I'm letting you leave this. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Continue. Alright, um, he's also looking at guys like Levi Anzariga and questioning is is this a guy that's a cut candidate because of his contract? Is this a guy that um we are going to see on the 2026-2027 roster? Um, or are we gonna try to save a few bucks? Because if you look back when Levi was on the field, statistically we were so much better. So we have to ask ourselves, are we gonna see a Levi Anzrique who's healthy and productive, or is one of these younger guys gonna beat him out?

SPEAKER_01 32:20

I mean, he Levi shows a lot of athletic traits, right? Like, he's got a lot of things that you're like, man, don't give up on Levi, right? Yeah, like he can he can play multiple positions in the front. Um, he's explosive, he kind of is he's a multi-guy, and if you're transitioning this defense, like he really fits that. But if the death looks so good, we're not gonna be beholding him that either, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Right, right. I just I want this defense to be as best as it possibly can, and statistics show that when Levi's in the field, we're better. So that's where I'm I'm standing. I would want to see Levi on the field, I want to see him producing, and I want to see him healthy.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

So, well, I mean, you know, you get some pass rush on the interior from him, um, solid against the run. Yeah, right. And I mean, yeah, he doesn't he didn't get a lot of snaps either, right?

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Like he, you know, we had depth. We had depth, but he was able to play inside and out. Um, but now we're looking at a healthy Ali McNeil. We're looking at Tyleek Williams in year two, we're looking at hopefully guys like Derek Moore and Aiden Hutchison who are healthy on the edges, and um, you know, where does that put Alevi in it? What kind of role does he carve out for himself?

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Yeah, I think if he's you know the first guy off the bench in the interior, uh that's a what a blessing he is, you know. But that there was some competition there too.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

Sure, but you lost guys like Roy Lopez and DJ Reader is gone, and you know, so so ultimately, hopefully we need a guy like Levi, and he is able to fill that void.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

So no doubt.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

So, where's Bill takes us next? He takes it down to the tight end position. And if you know Bill and you've talked to Bill, all Bill wants is a big bruising, blocking tight end that can rumble his way out there and catch a pass or two every once in a while. Um, he loves a Sam Laporta, but he also recognizes that Sam Laporta is is uh more of a pass catching threat. Um, and we want guys that allow us to put guys in binds and and run the ball. So Jackson Meeks, a wide receiver converted to tight end, is this guy going to be what Bill wants? No, he's not. He is a light in the pants, not a 270-pound rumbling blocking tight end. But but he is a guy that that makes you question like, what kind of role are we looking at at the tight end position? And what pos where does that put guys like Tyler Conklin or Brock Wright? You know, are is he is is a Jackson Meeks gonna compete with those guys for a tight end two or three spot?

SPEAKER_01 35:17

No, I I think you know, Jackson Meeks is gonna compete for a roster spot first and foremost, right? Like that's the first thing you look at. And if he makes the roster, uh he's gotta be a special teams guy. He and he will, and he did. Yep. That's what he's yeah, he's held his hat, and also he's gonna be a guy that like you sneak into certain situations, you know, let's just say third and six, and it's a passing down, and you need to convert, and you will show tendencies of like this is what we do on third and six, and maybe he can block well enough to get one of those tendencies, and you can show that, show that, and show that, and also you can break that tendency, you can send them out there, you can exploit a mismatch, and that's a guy on your team that maybe you don't necessarily have.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

Yeah, and we have to remember like Jackson Mix is a UDFA, right? He is um, he is not a necessarily sought-after guy who didn't necessarily make it as a wide receiver, but had some skills and in preseason made some catches and made everybody excited. Um, but ultimately, you know, he is not a he's not a uh a matchup nightmare. He's not a he's not a Tony Gonzalez or Rob Gradsky or a Travis Kelsey, he is a converted wide receiver, you know, a UDFA at that.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Jackson Meeks, congratulations. We've given you more air time than any other podcast. Moving on to another guy that we're gonna give more air time.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Oh, uh, what about our QB3?

SPEAKER_01 36:53

Luke Altmeyer, uh, who I watched um in the Big Ten, and the dude is just he's a gamer.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

Yeah, right, he's an absolute gamer, and this is what we're hearing coming out of practices and coming out of you know training and and working outs and the mini camps. And is he going to be compete with Teddy Bridgewater for uh for QB2?

SPEAKER_01 37:15

All by reminds me of John Kitna, man. He he will put his head down, he will rush for those tough yards. It won't be a slide with your feet, it'll be a dive with your face. Um, he makes some tough throws, he stands in the pocket, he just gets licked. He's not a big guy. Um, stands in there, gets up, does it again, and he has all those traits that like I think that like Dan Campbell's like, man, I can see why they called him and they and they probably begged him to say, hey, we didn't draft you, but we want you on this team. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

So if he continues to play well, where does that what what kind of bind does that put you in? Does that is that a roster spot? Is that a hopefully he gets to to our practice squad? Is it uh or do you carry three quarterbacks?

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Well, the new rule now with the with the emergency quarterback situation is like you can kind of carry three quarterbacks without hurting your roster. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

SPEAKER_02 38:14

I I'd have to look let me let me look into that further and we'll we'll update this. But uh I still think it it doesn't matter. It's kind of the Brock Purdy UCL rule, right? Like I think game time, yes, you can have three quarterbacks on the sideline without that third quarterback impacting the the roster. But he if you keep a third quarterback, he still competes or still holds a spot on your 53-man roster.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Okay, all right. So um, you know, Teddy Bridgewater, you know, if we're counting on Teddy uh to get us through a series, great. And I I want to count on Teddy. If we're counting on Teddy to get us through a half, I want to count on Teddy, right? But if we're counting on Teddy to if it's to get us through a half season, like I want to turn the page to Luke Altmeyer and be like, all right, what do we got here?

SPEAKER_02 39:08

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Because we're already kind of like saying, Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

But does that mean that one of your 53 is Luke Altmeyer? And the hopes that Jared Goff is not get hurt?

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Well our listen, our hope is Jared Goff doesn't get hurt.

SPEAKER_02 39:28

Regardless, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Our this podcast, the season, is contingent on Jared Goff.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

Being healthy, playing a good a good top 10 QB season. If not better.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

It's crazy to say this, but like he's like by far the most important person on the Lions roster. And it's it's really not close. It's not close.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

It's not close. Like, you look at even like Jameer Gibbs, right? You know, you're your RB2 is Isaiah Pacheco, but even that you start to think about like we can make that work, we can pass more.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Um the Chiefs won the Super Bowl when I when Pacheco was the was their RB1.

SPEAKER_02 40:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

So like, yeah, not ideal, right? Like But like you can do that.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

You can make moves in order to fill that in. Like, you lose Jerry Goff. Are we are we are we searching for Joe Flacco to to make to make it to Detroit and fill a role? Because, you know, I'm watching listen, man, I'm watching quarterback on Netflix. It's it's great. And Joe Flacco's, you know, to be a guy that I like, but you know, he is a journeyman at best right now.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

So yeah, and and old. He's old. And I think it's golf or bust with this line's roster, and he's in his prime, and um, it's one reason that we've invested so heavily in offensive line.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Like um, so, anyways, uh Bill uh rounding out a couple things. You know, he says Jadavian clown is still available, still there, wouldn't be mad about it, but knows it probably won't happen. So uh whatever. This reminds me of smoochy smoochie. You have to go back to to understand that in this podcast. So um Montgomery has a couple words on Montgomery.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

He's still convinced that Dave Montgomery was the was or training Montgomery was uh was not the right move.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Yeah. Um doesn't like Bill doesn't like these um and the baseball's doing a lot, NFL's doing a lot, but these early signings. So like guys in a rookie deal, you come in a little bit early, you feel like you're getting a discount, they feel like they're getting a raise, we get a little bit extra term. Um what's Bill's take on that?

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Yeah, he wants to uh to sign a guy based on what their future predicts, not necessarily what they did in their past. And I think that's what that's what players and um their agents want to do is like, hey, this guy was an all-pro, Kirby Joseph. We gotta pay him like he's an all-pro, versus hey, in the future he could take a dip, and that's that's that's retrospect, right? That's that's very hard to predict, and not only that, but you want to make a player and their agent happy in the and in the process of of resigning these guys too. You know, you want to give them their value, but you don't want to overvalue. So that's where he's talking about.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

I mean, it's like so obvious to me. Sure. Obviously, I want production if I'm gonna pay you, right? Like, but obviously, you gave me production, and I feel like I need to pay you for that, right? And there's gotta be a blending of the middle, otherwise, another team will get that. So, what happens with guys giving contracts is you probably underpay for the first half of the contract. So, if you're reluctant to give them term, this this conversation doesn't matter. If you're giving them term, you are underpaying for their first part of their contract, and you are way overpaying for the later half of their contract, and we all know this. This is what happens, yeah, this is the way contracts work, is like the guy wants term for a reason. Yeah, he's like, hey man, like you gotta pay me. I'm in my prime. I know I'm my my agent knows that like once I hit 29, we know 29 year old wide receivers don't get money, so I want 29, 30, and 31 kind of guaranteed and bit and big dollars, and it's just like if we Don't give it to you, who will right?

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Right. But at the same time, right now, when we when we extended Amon Ross St. Brown, and he was the highest paywide receiver for all of six minutes, um, it it seemed like a lot of money, but now we're looking back at that value that we got Amon Ross St. Brown for, and we're like, we're happy we signed him early. Uh we're Hutchinson can be the you know put in that same boat, you know. We're we're we're happy that we signed him for this because now that edge money is continuing to grow, you know.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

So I don't know if he put Hutch there yet, right? Like he's still kind of gonna I think he will. I think he will earn it, but like I don't think you you know, Goff's contract looks pretty good right now, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:48

But then you question mark like Kirby Joseph. We did the same thing for Kirby, and you know, he didn't play last season.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

So for every Panay, you know, looks pretty good right now on paper, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Like even Jared Goff looks pretty good right now, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:02

There there is no doubt on that. So like it it's not it listen, it's not a perfect science. No, it's it's hard. Art meets science, and there's a Venn diagram, and then and they they blend the middle, and it it's it's very, very difficult. And and GMs everywhere have to try to figure out the art and the science. And also, you go back like the Lions on a lot of these free agent acquisitions. Let's look at Pacheco. Um, it's one year. It's it's we didn't give them term, other teams probably would have given them term, so don't discount your GM because there's some instances where there's a lot of guys that were signing for one-year contracts and and we're re-signing for rock one-year contract, one year contract. Like, we are putting these guys on here, and like we're we're trying to retain them, but like we're not giving them term, which gives you optionality to give guys term in the future.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

Alright, so what do you do with Jameer Gibbs?

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Well, Jameer Gibbs, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, he's uh age 24, turning 25 this season. Um you give him absolute term and you pay the guy probably 22 to 25 million dollars a year. Um, ladies and gentlemen, the pendulum is swinging back. Running backs were here a long time ago. Think about Emmett Smith, Barry Sanders, Thurmond Tom, yeah. I mean, you go, it's here, right? And then all of a sudden the pendulum started swinging way in the other direction. Running backs were dime a dozen. Don't give them term, don't give them money. We'll plug in a rookie, we'll wear him down for a couple years, and you know, tip your cap to guys like Saquon and guys that have really like uh McCaffrey that have really in their later 20s have carried the torch and said, if you are a really good running back, you are still a difference maker. And that pendulum of getting running backs on the cheap is we're in the we're in the middle zone right now. Like it's it's not expensive yet, but real it's kind of like the housing market, right? Like you go back to 2011, you could buy a house for this, right? And we all remember that. And you get a mortgage rate for this, and now we look at houses, and it's it's like, man, like it's really expensive to buy that house. The the mortgage rates are really expensive. Are they relatively speaking? Mortgage rates are six percent, historically, they're eight percent. Um, housing was just depressed, and now it's it's catching up. Running backs are right there right now, and and and I think you you respect him, you give him the loyalty, and and he's 24 going on 25.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Like, you still have five, six good years, and you pay the guy, and that's what I'm saying too, and not only that, but he is not a Bajan Robinson who you've leaned on for the last several years in order to be the Bell Cow. He was sharing a role with guys like David Montgomery up until now, and now you're starting to lean on him. So now are his best years where you're gonna you you might still have some longevity there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

You know, Algier got some some some run over in Atlanta, and and too much run for some people's sake. Yeah um, but I know I got a little long-winded on that, but I just think that like Gibbs is foundational, and he's of the age to give term. So if you can get a few discounts now on dollar amounts for term, I think it's a fair trade-off, and they're dancing around that right now. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

Bijan Robinson and Jameer Gibbs and their agents, they're they're they're trying to figure it out who's gonna blink first, and yep, and and which one's gonna get paid because so the next one can get paid just a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

So, yeah, it it's interesting. Um, I'm I'm pro give them the contract. I don't think this is a Miguel Cabrera type contract. I think this is a I still think it's almost like Kevin McGonagall type contract, you know, where he's young. Um you gotta, you know, it's Kevin McGonagall Plus, you gotta pay him a little extra, but like this is the prime, you're you're buying the prime of the career, and you gotta pay extra for that.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

Fair enough. Fair enough. So um let's go, Brian. Let's let's let's shoot the script, right? Yeah. Alright. Um let's just talk local Detroit stuff real quick, alright? So Iserman, out. Out thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

As as painfully as I as it hurts, I wanted Iserman to succeed. He didn't, and it's time to move on.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

Simple as that. Simple as that. Like, hopefully, for me, there is still the ability to mend ties with Dylan Larkin, um, that he can stick around and you know be whether he's the captain or or they he sees that we're trying to surround him with with good good talent.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Yeah, I kind of view Iserman as like he was like if you're building a house, he's a really good contractor that just was spending way too much time tinkering around with the foundation and the walls, and you wanted this, you just wanted to move in, man. And it's just like, dude, like you gotta you gotta figure this out. And it's like it wasn't, and it wasn't, and it was like, you know what? There's some other contracts because they're gonna move faster, they're gonna do good of a job. And we want to move our family. It's time to move in. We want to make the playoffs. So, all right. Um Detroit Tigers. Two two two questions for you, bro.

SPEAKER_02 51:13

Okay, two.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Alright, so first playing great baseball. First, are they gonna percentages that they're gonna trade Terry Scuble?

SPEAKER_02 51:25

So I think they have to go.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

I think they have to trade school.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

That's not not expecting that?

SPEAKER_01 51:34

No, because I had my own vision here. I told you right before this.

SPEAKER_02 51:38

I'm like, all right, what if I say the same thing that you want to say? And I think that they have to they have to trade him. I think they have to get value out of him, and whether he wants if he wants to be in Detroit, we resign him in the offseason. If he doesn't want to be in Detroit, he's off to the LA Dodgers, and it is what it is, right? But you need to get value from him now. I don't believe the Detroit Tigers, as good as they're playing right now, are a World Series winning team, and because of that, you get value.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

Potentially a package that is franchise altering for the next five years, right? Like, so like that that's a that's a big deal.

SPEAKER_02 52:15

So not only that, but they got some young pitching talent that right now is being successful.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

I mean, you look at like really you take Derek Scuba out of the rotation, you got you got Melton, you got Montero, who are are pretty dominant right now, right? Like you got Maize, you got Jackson Job, who is a top, top guy, you got Reese Olsen, who's been injured all year long, right?

SPEAKER_02 52:46

And you're not even talking about your top paid guy in that.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

You got Framer Valdez, yeah, who's got multiple years of term on that contract, right? Like, so like you don't you could actually still make the playoffs. You you can thread the needles, and and the tigers did this in 24, where they traded assets, made the playoffs, and made themselves better for future years. That was the year they traded Jack Flaherty to the Dodgers. Yep. Um, anyways, that's that's interesting. So, with that being said, um, are the Tigers Are they gonna find a way to backdoor themselves into the playoffs? Yes. Yes, with the yes, so hey, we buried it. What do we? We're almost an hour into this podcast, and we buried the hottest take of the podcast right for the very end.

SPEAKER_02 53:38

I think with the line, uh sorry, with the tigers playing the baseball they're playing, they're they're relying on good pitching and not just Trick School pitching, they're relying on good pitching across the roster. Um, I think that their their detriment right now is in the bullpen, and but their hitting is coming on and their defense is starting to play like we know they can play.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

Yeah man, that's that's beautiful. Um and I I think they don't make the playoffs. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:09

Are you saying that just to be controversial with me right now?

SPEAKER_01 54:12

Partially. I think they're playing great baseball.

SPEAKER_02 54:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:17

I think they're gonna sell Scooba. I think that affects the clubhouse.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

Do you think they can sell Casey Myes too?

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Well, Casey Myes right now is on the IL, the 10-day IL, and they gotta get that guy healthy. Sure. So Mys is an interesting one. If you lose Scoobol to free agency, you get a first-round pick. Also, if you lose my to free agency, you get a first-round pick. So, in bargaining for that, the team that trades for my has to understand that if they don't re-sign him, they get a first-round pick. So, what you get back in return is my plus plus, right? Like, yeah, you have to understand like if we just hold this guy, we're gonna, I think they should try to resign my. No, when we talked about starting pitching earlier, and then we got to six without even talking about my. So you get my plus a first right now, right? So, and whatever team does that, they could send him a qualifying offer and they get a first round pick by just not re-signing him, so he gets a decent return. So I I would like to re-sign my if we can get him for a decent deal, especially if we're not gonna resign School. Um, my's is who he is, he's gonna be a 2-3 starter, he's a framber Valdez equivalent. And um, but man, we we've we found money with Melton. Yes, we we found money with Caden Montero. Yes, and what we saw glimpses of Jackson Job, it's like okay, and then Reese Olson when when healthy is he was arguably the number two last year, right?

SPEAKER_02 56:09

So so we got guys that allow crazy enough the best pitcher in baseball to be expendable.

SPEAKER_01 56:19

And the Tigers draft strategy. I don't know if you if you looked back and did the recap, but the Tigers drafted a lot of college arms, which is interesting because um in the past they've drafted high school arms and they drafted college bats. So it tells me that they're thinking they're gearing up for this window, right? We talk about windows all the time. I think the tigers think that they they have the start of something here, and they want guys to come up and be ready, and not in five years, but in one to two years. Yeah, and that's that's interesting to me. That's that's my take on the whole situation. Fair enough. So that being said, um, we appreciate your patience with the podcast. Uh life gets busy sometimes. Um, we went a whole year with basically never skipping a beat. I mean, I was having a kid getting called to sit in this chair and do a podcast. So um we took a three-week hiatus. We did, right? We did. So if you're still listening to this one, if you have my personal number, text me and be like, hey man, I listened to the whole podcast. I heard your message at the end. Two, if you don't have my personal number, just comment at the end. Hey, listen to the whole pod. It was good. I'm subscribed, I like, I listen, and I send to my aunt who might like, you know, talking about the Detroit Lions or maybe the Tigers.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:48

Um, that being said, stay gritty. Go, Lions. See you next week.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

That's that's the plan.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

Let's go. Let's go.