Compound Growth

Episode 03- Meet Wheeler

• Compound Growth • Season 1 • Episode 3

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In this episode of Compound Growth, hosts Colin and Wheeler go deep—but this time, the spotlight’s on Wheeler. What begins as a nostalgic memory about comic books evolves into a raw and insightful account of Wheeler’s journey with money, debt, and resilience. From a childhood shaped by a single-parent household and early jobs to the unglamorous hustle of entry-level roles in the entertainment industry, Wheeler shares how his relationship with money was formed—through scarcity, improvisation, and a lot of IOUs.

As Wheeler traces his path through undergrad, grad school, and eventually cross-country moves to pursue a film career, we hear about financial naivete, student loans, and the grind of survival. But what stands out isn’t the struggle—it’s how each financial misstep built the foundation for future understanding. By the time he lands in a temp job at Wells Fargo, the picture starts to shift. Exposure to a different kind of wealth—and the tools used to build and preserve it—plants the seed for a future in financial advising.

This episode is an honest reminder that financial literacy doesn’t always come from textbooks—it often comes from lived experience. Wheeler’s story is one of perseverance, curiosity, and eventual clarity. It's about how surviving bad money decisions can lay the groundwork for helping others avoid them. Whether you’re just starting out or trying to reset your financial path, there’s something here for you.

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Credits:
Created By: Wheeler Crowley and Colin Walker
Production Assistance: Tori Rothwell
Editing and Post-Production: Steven Sims

Welcome to the Compound Growth podcast with Colin and Wheeler, where we talk all things growth. From financial growth to career growth, personal development to societal progress, we explore how each layer builds on the next, compounding over time to shape who we become. Each week, we break down complex ideas and emerging trends into clear, actionable insights, because growth isn't just about numbers, it's about understanding the world and our place in it. The information in this material is for general information only and is not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. Investment advice offered through Integrated Partners, doing business as CoFi Advisors, LLC, a registered investment advisor. Integrated Partners does not provide legal, tax, mortgage advice or services. Please consult your legal tax advisor regarding your specific situation. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. All investing involves risk, including loss of principal. No strategy assures success or protects against loss. The economic forecasts set forth in this material may not develop as predicted, and there can be no guarantee that the strategies promoted will be successful. Welcome to the Compound Growth podcast- Yes. with Colin and Wheeler. Today is all about Wheeler. Today, we're diving into my backstory. Yes. Well, I'm curious about this, because I know a little bit about your background, but I feel like I don't know your money background. My money story. Your money story. Yeah. So I'm gonna take it from the top. What is your oldest memory of money? Oh, man. My oldest- Where does this go back? My oldest, uh, memory of money is the feeling of not having enough money, right, for, for whatever I wanted. Okay. Um, whatever that might be. I think in my case, it was comic books. Um, I just wanted to be able to buy comic books. And the 2 things had not been explained to me, the concept of supply and demand- Mm-hmm. um, and also just how you pay for things. So how old were you at this stage of the game? I think I was, I was in middle school at that point, so- Okay, so maybe like 6th grade, 5th grade? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right around there. Let's say 11. Okay. Right? Um, and I think that, uh, we'd missed a couple of just, like, conversations- Yeah. that we could have had maybe a little bit earlier- Okay. developing, like, the concept of what is money, um, how do you pay for the things that you need. So, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So it started with comic books. So was it a scarcity mindset that you're kind of coming from in the beginning with money? Is that a fair assumption? I think it was a complete naivete. I, I think it was- Okay. I didn't really We didn't have, like, everything we wanted. We had exactly what we needed- Mm-hmm. and then when I started to want a little bit more than what I needed, then that was the con- like, the idea of, "Well, how do you get that?" That wasn't really explained. Was, was that it? Okay, so that wasn't explained. So- Yeah. I guess if I'm in your shoes, you want more comic books, how did you solve for that? Was it just, you know, "I need to figure out a way to make money," or what was the thought process there? Uh, the, the solve for that at the time was very creatively to go down to the comic book store and basically start a tab that, that would- An IOU. IOU, uh, and that my mom was on the hook for. Uh- Okay. at that point, we had a conversation of- So it did come, the conversation? It yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, and it was, that was a, the concept of balancing a checkbook. Again, like back in the day, right? Like, everybody had to keep track of money going in, money going out. You couldn't log in online and actually take a look at what your balance was, right? So you had to, intra-month, keep track of all the money leaving the bank account, right? Hmm. Or you could go to the cashier and get a, like a little slip of paper, but there were no ATMs, right? So you, if you wanted to know how much money you had in your bank account, you had to just keep track of it. So the first thing, the only thing they ever taught me in school, uh, in terms of financial liter- literacy was just how to balance a checkbook, right? I completely forgot that was a thing. That was a, that was a whole thing, like the things that we take for granted now, um, that was I'm pretty sure my parents still balance a checkbook. Right, because they have those old money habits. Right. Right? Um, I think my mom probably did up until recently, and then she realized that I was, like, bothering her too much. I'm like, "You don't need to do this. This is just, like, a waste of your time." This is no longer a thing. Uh, but that was, that was the, the thing back then. And the concept that money could run out was, like, foreign to me. It was really just like, "Oh, okay, so what happens if it goes to 0?" Well, you don't have whatever it is that you You don't have comic books. It's not a matter of what you want anymore. It's what you- Right. what you need. What you need. Mm-hmm. Yeah, interesting. Okay, so that's your oldest memory about money. So where did it evolve? Because that was middle school. As you progressed through school- Hmm. did you notice a shift in your mindset, or is it, did it progress to be the same? I think that was when I realized I needed to get a job, right? Hmm. So my mom, single mother, 2 boys, you know, living off of a high school teacher educa- uh, salary, you know, if we wanted anything that she either didn't believe we needed, right- Right. or just couldn't afford to get for us, then we had to get a job, right? So I started working multiple jobs, uh, pretty early on in high school. Before I had a car, I had a job, um, and then when I had a car, the whole purpose of the job was to pay for the car, right? Um, and then pay to, you know, pay for CDs for the car. Whatever it was was all about, like, just the car for the most part. Do you Do you remember your first major purchase? Uh, no. No, I actually don't remember my first major purchase. I don't think I was very good at saving things up for, like, a goal at that point. Okay. It was really just about, you know, I if I wanted whatever new album came out that week, then I needed to have. You would go work- Yeah. try to get it. Exactly. In general, I've stumbled my way into knowledge in finance. Um, and that's like the theme of my life up to a certain point, it was just kind of like, "Oh, I have to know this now?" Right? Yeah. Um, and I think, you know, my mom did the best she could, um, but she didn't have time for all the conversations that, you know, could have helped me along the way, like, you know, h- how does college work? How much do we have to pay for college? Hm. Should we go to the school that gives you the best- Sure. financial aid package or should we go to the school that whatever. Um, so I feel like I went into college and, you know, you could kinda look at it like every, every breath you take in college, if you're taking out a loan, costs you money. Yeah. Right? Um, so I'm already kind of like building up credit card debt, or not, sorry, just debt. Debt in general. Right? Student loan debt. Yeah. Uh, and then they have, you know, on campus, they have people just like issuing your first credit card, like, you know, you go to college- Right. it's like a predatory practice of just like, "Hey here's a bunch of 18 or 19-year-old students that have no financial literacy." Yeah."Let's give them a thousand dollars-" Right." you in credit." It, it kinda, it's, it's almost like when you first started, so you would capture money and then that money would go out. Right. You know, for purchases. Yeah. Then it evolved to basically like a line of credit system. Mm-hmm. It sounds like after that. Yeah. Which is, you know, your next relationship with money seems as if it's more understanding the way that debt works. Yeah, and then you realize that, there's a, there's a, a limit, right? Right. To everything. So now working multiple jobs in college, right, but it's just to pay off the credit card, it's not to build up a savings- Hm. because the re- the line of credit has become how I spend the money, right? So how did you manage the jobs while you were in college?'Cause multiple jobs, also a student. Mm. Like what jobs were you working? So I was a tour guide, a campus tour guide. Nice. Which was actually an extension of in high school, I was a tour guide. That's cool. Um, so I have a lot of tour guide experience. Um, so I was a campus tour guide, I also, um, was that person that would sit in the lobby and check people in and out of the dorms. Okay. Right? Yep. Right? Um, the, the security. Security if you will. will. I also have a lot of security experience. No beer in the lobby. If I can't see it- Right. it's not not there, yeah. Um, and then I also, uh, ran the campus TV station for a little bit. Cool. Okay. Um, so This comes full circle to a podcast. Yeah, I guess so. It does. I guess so. Yeah. So I had a lot of just like odd job experience, um, and then, you know, the, I feel like college, the amount of time that you're actually sitting in a classroom is pretty limited. It is. You know? And you can study while sitting at the desk checking people in and out, and you can study honestly while you're at the TV station. So with those jobs, you were making money, was that money basically just coming in and going right out towards either student loans or this kind of line of credit? Well, no, because the student loans were like a- Deferred. tomorrow Wheeler problem. Yeah. That's not, that's a, that's a sucks for future Wheeler situation. So okay, so, you know, I would say based off of this conversation that probably at the time, most college kids don't understand the fact that this deferred liability is like actually a thing. Yeah. Until it becomes a thing. Yeah. 100%. Did it become a thing shortly after or when did things change for you? So I transferred schools 2 years in and it went from a school that was really affordable- Mm-hmm. to a school that wasn't as affordable. Okay. Um, and that's when we started to talk about, "Well how are we gonna pay for that? If you're gonna make this change, how do we figure out how to pay for it?" And, you know, applied for more grants, applied for more scholarships, and- Hm. and did all those things. Uh, and then continued to work at that, at that school, but, you know, worked more, work in a higher paying job, work your way up a little bit, right? Sure. So, you know, s- I started as a cashier at the, the little convenience store on campus, um, and then I was managing the convenience store on campus. Nice. Um, which is great but again, just enough to pay for, like, lifestyle, right? Yeah. It's not It's, there's still, like, this massive, not a balloon payment, but this massive ball that and, and there's a large chain connecting it and it's building bigger and bigger, and getting heavier and heavier. When did you start thinking about that? Because oftentimes I find when kids go into school, it's, they don't really think about- Yeah. their liabilities. Like- Yeah. do, do you remember, like, a moment or a period where you were like, "Shit." You know? Yeah, well, I think that came when it was time to graduate and you're like, "Okay, well, I guess I have to get a job," right? Mm-hmm. Um, and I actually turned that convenience store manager role into a, um, dining hall manager role- Mm. through Aramark and it was one of those situations where, you know, Jess and I together from high school, right, all through college, um, needed a place in the big city, so we're moving to Boston, right? Mm-hmm. Needed to get a job, um, and then all of a sudden there was gonna be rent to pay for, there was gonna be utilities to pay for, and, of course, student loans to pay for. Right. Um, so needed to get a job, needed to get a decent-paying job in order to accommodate all those things. And the easiest path was the path I chose, which was just continuing through the Aramark program and- you know, finding myself in charge of a, of a dining hall with a bunch of, um- College kids. entitled children. Um, and, and, and, you know, I'm 20. What am I? 22 at that point. Yeah. And everybody working in the dining hall is, you know, 10 years older or more. Right. Um, there wasn't a lot of thought, I think, that went into that system, uh, or where I, I thought it was gonna bring me in the long run. It was really just an immediacy thing. You need to pay the bills. Right. So you need to get the job. And that's as far as it went. S- At that point. So you and Jess, your current wife- Current wife. Yes. Also first wife. Also first wife. Last wife. Only wife. First and last. Last wife. You guys were dating through college, correct? All through through college. You guys have been- Mm-hmm. sweethearts since, like, the 6th grade or something like that, was it? Close enough. Okay. Yeah. So 6th grade, so- It was, uh, well, no. first kiss was 8th grade, if you wanna get into the, into the weeds. But holding we didn't start dating until junior high school. It's good. All right, fair enough. So you guys were together through college? Mm-hmm. Did she have a similar money experience, and, like, when you guys moved in together, like, did you align on that? What did that look like? Yeah, so I think it's, it's really interesting because Jess and I have talked about this a lot. You know, what was her experience with money growing up? Right. How was it handled in her household versus And how did that, like, influence the both of you? Right, yeah. I mean, thankfully we, we both, um, had a, a background of working, right? We, we worked in high school, we worked in college, et cetera. Mm-hmm. Um, she worked her way all through college. She would work in the summer, she would work. She did similar dining hall stuff. She ran the dining hall- Oh, interesting. Okay. in Holyoke, yeah. Uh- So did you manage her when- No. No, Jess has also been better, uh, about, uh, about thinking a little bit deeper into the future. So when she- Okay. got outta college, she's like, "Well, I wanna have a career, so I'm gonna go, you know, find that career." Yeah. Um, so she went into interior design right outta college- Cool. um, which is one of her many, uh, explorations into finding, like- Yeah. what her purpose- Her path. yeah- Yeah. in work is meant to be. Yeah. Um, but we did have that, you know, that shared sense of responsibility of just, like, how to pay the bills, but also that shared naivete of, like, you know, what was this big, massive college debt that we built up? Mm. Right? Yeah. And I think that, you know, we each came out of undergraduate school with some amount of debt. Um, I don't think it was quite equal, but it was, you know, we both had student loans to pay, right? You had the responsibility of it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, okay. Got it. That's fair. So you graduated from college. Jess is sinking her teeth into interior design. Mm-hmm. You're with Aramark. Mm-hmm. How are finances going at this point? I think we are doing okay, right? We're starting to make some progress. We're paying off our loans, et cetera. So- Yeah. of course what we need to do is go get more loans for additional education. Mm-hmm. Right?'Cause- Yes, as you do. So Jess realized that if she was gonna focus on interior design, she needed to go to grad school for that purpose. For interior design. So yeah, so she got into RISD. Um, actually got, she got into another school, uh, first and then s- transferred to RISD. Um, and then I'm like, "Well, I want more debt, so." Don't leave me out. And also- I love that you're exploring your creative, like, passion. So I wanna go to grad school, uh, for a creative role, and I wanna go into screenwriting 'cause I love movies and I'd already made a movie at that point. Yep. Um, and I'm like, "That makes a lot of sense." Like that's, you know, find your passion, right? You know, if you, if you love what you do, you, you never work a day in your life- Right. yada yada yada. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, how do you pay for that? Well, you take out student loans, uh, and then you take out living loans because graduate school in Boston is expensive. Yep. And, um, your not yet wife is also, um- you know, working full-time and going to school at night. So it, we didn't have a lot of disposable income to offset- You guys were grinding? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, and grinding and spending. So it seems to me, I mean, the ongoing theme so far is grinding. I don't know if there's been a time in your life yet where you aren't working multiple jobs. While also, I mean, you have this, I'll say, line of credit, um, if you will- uh, margin, uh- Yeah. so you're, this seems to be like the ongoing- Yeah. theme so far. Is that fair? Yeah, it's a good point. It's, uh, I think that we always knew we had to work. Jess always knew she had to work. We, you know, going to school is also more work, right? Totally. It's not paying the bills right away. RISD is a pretty tough school. It was. It was a tough school, and we, we would drive down there together, um, just to, like, have our shared time in the car. Otherwise, we weren't gonna, you know, see each other. Um, I Yeah, you're right. It was a lot of work. Um, we had, you know, when I was at school at Boston University for the MFA in screenwriting, I was also- Mm-hmm. um, I worked at, basically, like, a drug testing company. Um, I worked as a bouncer. Um, I worked in the, the writing workshops, you know, room at Boston University, helping people with their resumes. Yeah. Um, just doing a bunch of odd jobs, again, to just try to pay the bills, because again, we're 2 young adults living in Boston with, you know, I, I wouldn't say expensive tastes, but just a need to continue to consume, right? Right. We gotta, we gotta go to the grocery store. We have to go out occasionally with our friends and have a social life, right? Sure. Yeah. Um, and then those student loans that we brought on from our first 4 years of college are still there, and, you know, we're not really making much progress on those while we're in grad school. So what inspired you to go the film route? Like, because I haven't heard much about film yet. I know you were into comic books and everything. Yeah. Like, was this something that was always in the back of your mind or did this come out when Jess started to explore the creative side of interior design? I think it was I mean, the reason I transferred schools partway through college is because I realized I wasn't going anywhere at that school and- Yeah. they didn't have a film program. They didn't really have a communications program and I was really- Okay. more interested in that. So I transferred to Hartford, uh, got into the film school there. Yep. Um, got the degree in communications. The focus was always on storytelling. My senior year in high school, my big project was I made a movie. Hmm. Um, it was called Inane Strife, and we can get into what that title is a different time. Okay. There's a lot to unpack there I feel. yeah. Yes. But it was fun. It was, it was a big project. It's collaborative. Okay. You know, I had a, I had a partner that I worked on the project, writing and directing, et cetera. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, it was, it was a great experience for me and it was something that I really wanted to explore. Um, so college gave me a little more of that and then the realization that maybe I can make that a career is what sent me to Boston University. Okay. So Boston University, Jess RISD, you guys are doing your thing, working a ton of jobs, grinding it out with school. Mm-hmm. Graduate. Then what? Now you wanna have this career. It's actually- She wants to have this career. Tru- too, true to form for us, Jess does not graduate RISD. She realizes that she does not want to go into interior design. Okay. Uh, but in the meantime, she's got a job at this architecture school or ar- Okay. sorry, architecture firm. Um, she's doing okay. Um, but I have, uh, decided that if I am going to get into film, I need to go to California. You gotta commit. Yeah. We gotta, we're all in it, right? Yeah. So Jess agrees to sign up for the adventure of moving from Boston to Los Angeles, 3,000 miles away from all of our family. We've never- Right. done anything like this before. Okay. Um, I go out there a, you know, one semester early and get some, like, internship experience or whatever. Mm-hmm. But for the first time in my life, I'm not being paid for any of the work I'm doing. So I imagine it's probably tough to get by- Mm-hmm. when you're living in LA, which isn't a cheap city. Not a cheap city. And you're trying to become, I'll say, a film director, and Jess, I know, just pivoted with her career. Mm-hmm. What was that like? So, I mean, it was really You know, at this point, Jess is in the apartment in Boston, basically supporting that all by herself. Okay. You know, off her income that was good enough for 2 people with income, but not really great when it's just one person with income. Yeah. Um, and I'm, like, out in California chasing a dream living off of, you know, private loans. Yes, yeah. Um, working really hard, but not getting paid for it. Um, but, you know, sunk cost fallacy- Right. we're, we're in it now, right? Yeah. Um, so January, uh, the following year, Jess and I drive cross country, New Year's Day. We leave Vermont, uh- Okay. and we drive, uh, to California. We have, I think, less than $2,000 in our combined checking accounts. Yep. Um, with rent due whenever we could find the nearest Wells Fargo while we're driving cross country. Um, and no jobs lined up in LA. Okay. Um, I have, you know, a lead on an unpaid internship. Yep. Um, we arrive in LA, Jess gets to, to work looking for, uh, something. She finds Doggy Daycare, uh- Really? And Yeah, and she took a job, uh, shoveling shit for- Doggy Daycare, um, for a couple weeks until she found a job working at a, um, small architecture and design firm- In LA? in LA. Which is great, um, because that one actually pays some money. Yes. And she's gonna work front desk, it's like entry level, right? Yeah. Um, kind of a, a step down from what she was doing in Boston, but it's work, right? Yeah. Um, and it also led to some fun, you know, interactions, uh, with some pretty famous clients. I can imagine. Yeah. Yeah. So, so that was really cool. Um, but I'm still not getting paid, and- Okay. for the first 3 months that we're out in California, I'm still not getting paid. Working at an internship, chasing the dream, but broke. Uh, and then finally, I get a job- Okay. that's actually gonna pay me money. Nice. And I'm working as an assistant for this guy at a company called The Collective, and he is also chasing a dream. Like, he's kind of like an entry level manager type, right? Like, he's had some success, um, but he's starting to build his own thing and he needs an associate. But he can't afford me by himself, right? So, he's- Okay. gotta share me with one of the partners at the firm. So, just back up one second. So, okay, so you need to find some money, you wanna be in the entertainment industry. So, this is me being naive, but, like, what does a manager do? So, it depends on who they're managing, right? Okay. Um, but if you are managing, you're managing the talent, what you're doing is trying to connect the dots essentially. Now, in that industry there's, there's agents and there's managers. Okay. I feel like, um, whatever I say, somebody's gonna be offended, so I'm not gonna say too much about it. Okay. They have, um, slightly varying roles with slightly differing compensation. Agents and managers? Agents and managers. Okay. Um, but it's basically like just 2 components of a team that helps the talent get work, right- Okay. or make art come to life, or- Find a movie or- whatever concert or record deal, or- yeah. whatever it might be. Yeah, exactly. Okay, got it. Okay, so now you are the junior manager, junior to the manager. Oh, boy, I wish, yeah. This is like the, uh, The Office, assistant to the regional manager. Yeah, manager, yeah. Yeah. No, I am, I am the, the lowest level sentry at the, uh, at the firm. Okay. Um- But it's in the industry you want. It's finally making money in the industry I wanna be in. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So, that was very exciting. Yes. Um, but, you know, again, Jess and I are, um, living in one of the most expensive cities, uh- Yeah, we upgraded our expenses by moving to California. Yeah. Um, I'm making money, but I'm making $25,000 a year, which, uh, is maybe enough to pay for rent and my student loans, but not the groceries. Not much else. Okay, got it. Um, and then on top of that, we're getting married, so- Okay, yeah. I have a job, uh- A tax break. Yes. Well- maybe. You have to make money- Yeah, that's true. in paying taxes. That is a good point. Um, so, you know, 2008, this is, uh, the time where I finally get that job in the film industry. Mm-hmm. Um, and, you know, and Jess has found work that I think is fun and satisfying to a degree. Uh, she's meeting some good people. Um, wedding's coming up in the fall. Um, it's, I think, about this time in our lives, because it was the first time that we were probably both doing some work that we enjoyed, but there's a bit of a learning curve because now I'm an assistant that's working 10 hours a day for, um, let's say some less than friendly individuals. Because the culture of the film industry, in that space, is, "If you're an assistant, we're gonna pay you like garbage, we're gonna yell at you all day, you're gonna work 10 hours a day." Um, "And because you don't have money, you don't have time, you're gonna live off of the bag of chips that's in the, you know, kitchen there." Right."Um, and you're gonna be so exhausted from it all and kind of beaten down from it all, because when you do finally leave, we're gonna give you a Blackberry so that we can call you when you get home if we need anything." You were probably so excited to get a Blackberry. I was, because I could not afford my phone bill, so Right. But it was- Seems like a gift at the time. Yeah, exactly. Yeah."Ooh, this is exciting." Yeah. Um-But, you know, now you're gonna be so wiped out that you're not gonna have time to write. You're not gonna have time to create. You know, you're not gonna have energy for that stuff. So basically, you're supporting my dream, not your own? 100%. Okay. Yeah, Okay. Um, it got to the point where, you know, Jess and I, we go back to Vermont for our, our wedding, and, uh, the day of my wedding, my boss called and left me a angry, belligerent voicemail because he didn't have the contact information for somebody that he wanted to call that day, which obviously, and I should say this on the record, I was a really bad assistant. I was not very good at my job. I did not have, uh, the drive to really succeed in that Sure. Well, it doesn't sound extremely motivating. No, it wasn't. Yeah. Um, but it also, you know, it To be yelled at on your wedding day- That's, uh, not the best experience. It's a great Right? And that, it just kind of was a reminder that, you know, I'm fodder in that system, right? Mm-hmm. And that whoever I am, I'm easily replaceable. Of course. Um, and they know that, right? Mm-hmm. There's also no benefits, so I had no health insurance and no 401or anything Was that a wake-up call when you got that call during your wedding? It was. It was also kind of an It was the first sign that things weren't going the way they needed to go, um, which is why I shifted from the film management arm to the music management arm, uh, which was even further away from what I wanted to do, but it was like the easy adjustment- The easy button? to make, yeah. Was that Like, I'll say, a more manageable environment? It was not a more manageable environment. Okay. Um, it was a different person yelling at me. Um, it was You know, it, it was maybe more interesting because the, the work I was doing was a little bit more, um, interactive with the musicians, like the clients, I was spending more time with them. Yeah. Um, so that was exciting, um, but still broke. I got a, a, a Christmas bonus that year, and, uh, it was, I think it was $200. And I have not been that excited about any payday before or since, and it was just a $200 bonus. So that was a game-changer for you? It was.$200?$200 was a big deal to me. It was also not attached to anything. It's just kind of like, here's You know, it's like a cash in an envelope. You know, the big, the big spend that day was we went to Coffee Bean and bought a couple of, um, like, caramel lattes or something like that. Um, but it was all a struggle, and, you know, when I found myself kind of begging for a $5,000 raise so I could pay my, my college loans, you know, it That was the realization that none of this was working, you know? So if I'm to zoom out 30,000 feet, it seems like so far, your whole life up until let's say 30 has been grinding. Mm-hmm. And it seems as if you're, you know, kind of making money to pay the money right back out. Yeah. Is that fair? Yeah, for sure. And is that, I assume, Jess' experience too? You guys are a unit at this point. Is she kind of This must be like wearing. Yeah, yeah, I think it was. It felt very limiting. We were in California, um, which, you know, was a new adventure for us. Mm-hmm. But I felt like we couldn't afford to do anything. Like, we couldn't afford to go visit our friend in San Francisco, right? Yeah. We couldn't like just drive up the coast and, and do that. And I think that, um, you know, Jess actually was saving in a 401, which was, you know, our first experience with that. Yeah. Um, but it was always a grind. We were meeting great people. We were, you know, on an adventure, um, but there was definitely a lot of just like anxiety and stress. Okay. Yeah. So at this point in time, money hasn't been an enjoyable experience? Not at all. No? No. Okay, so fast forward, music s- Yeah, I mean- Tough, you know? Now, how have things progressed, like? I will skip some of the, the, the more exciting personal stories and get to the point- Okay. where I parted ways with the entertainment industry. Okay. Um, and found myself, um, with some extra time on my hands where I could finally just like focus on writing. Um, which was really fun but limiting in its own way because I, you know, writing is such a mercurial, uh, endeavor. It's, it's really kind of, like, you can't do it 8 hours a day. No. Right? Or, like, maybe some people can, but they're, like, really just, like, murdering themselves to do it. So you can do it in small doses or in, or in little stretches, but then at some point, like, what do you do with the rest of your time? And Jess, uh, clearly pointed out that I wasn't going to just sit there on the couch watching movies the rest of my time. Right? That's fair. Um, she's- This is work, babe. Yeah. It's, I'm doing my research. No, it's, you know, that's not who we were, right? Yeah. So I went to a temp agency. Yep. Um, and then, you know, did all the, the typing tests and did all the things that you do at a temp agency, and they placed me at Wells Fargo in Beverly Hills as the third assistant to a financial advisor. Okay. And that was the transition point for me. That was, you know, you go in there, and you're kind of, like, surrounded by wealth, but it's not There's wealth all around you in LA, but it feels a little bit different when it's, like, entertainment industry wealth. Like, people are just, like, they're flashy. They have all their, they have flashy cars, or they have flashy sunglasses or flashy meals or flashy, flashy, flashy. So to you, so far, money is the experience that you've had with it, I mean, apart from the struggle, has been seeing people with flash and excess. Seeing people with- Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so now you're moving into Wells Fargo. So, this is your first experience with, I'll say, either multi-generational wealth, business owners, like- Old money. all that kinda stuff. Yeah. How did that impact your psyche when you saw all of this? I thought it was, I think it was exciting to learn about it. Mm-hmm. It was, it's really kind of like, okay, I have access to something I've never had access to before. I am working with, you know, the number one producer in that firm at that location. Yeah. Right? Which is obviously one of the best locations you could be in in the country. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And he's, you know, he was, he was also somebody who could be a little bit difficult at times, but, you know, you know, com- compared to the, the consistent verbal abuse I received in the entertainment industry, this guy's a pussycat. Right. Um, so I was, I had the thick skin developed there. Um, and then I was also, it was a low-stakes role. I was the third guy, right? Okay. Um, and I was a temp, you know. Yeah. So, um, which means 2 things. 1, a temp in that situation, he's paying out of pocket for it, right? Okay. So, if, if he likes you, he's gonna keep you, right? And I- If he doesn't, he won't. Exactly. Yeah. Um, and he turned out to like me. Um, and the things that he liked about me, communication skills, being able to write, being able to, smile when he's yelling at me. Uh,, you know, just kinda like putting him at ease, um, I think were the transferrable skills from the creative industry that I was in to the, the money industry that I was maybe moving into. Yeah, it's funny because when I look through your journey, this guy, if he's particularly particular, um, I will say would benefit from having someone like you on his team that's already dealt with a lot of grind, that's already dealt with, you know, some unfortunate situations with prior bosses. Right. You have the writing skills, which is a huge portion of, I assume, what you're doing. So, all of these things play into where you are currently. Yeah. And line you up for success in this particular job. Yeah. I think so. And I think, you know, the, the second assistant, um, he was always miserable, so I was bringing in, like, exciting I was eager. I was like the little puppy dog. Yeah. And there's, like, the old dog who's just, like, just pouting and just, like- Doesn't wanna be there. whining, and yeah, he's- Yeah. and so he's getting, he's not putting out the best work because he's miserable. Yep. Um, and then, you know, the, the first assistant was really kind of like a junior advisor. Like, she was the one that had the relationships with the clients. Yeah. And she was the one that they called when they needed something most of the time. Yeah. So for me, it was, um, just a chance to kind of, like, soak up a lot of knowledge, and they had this new thing that they were putting out called an Envision Plan. Okay. And that came from the Wells Fargo Wachovia merger as a result of 2008. Yeah. Um, and so none of them had ever done any financial planning or any type of planning before. It was all stock-based. It was all, yeah. Yeah. It was all just like- Stock based. how's the investments portfolio? Right. Like, how is that portfolio doing? So, they're like, "Hey, we should probably learn this. Uh, Wheeler's not doing anything. He can go learn it." So, I just happened to be in a place where, um, I was the point person for all of the data entry- Yeah. and kind of exploring the product and building the plans. Yeah. With no background, by the way. Yeah. Right? Like, no real, obviously, no financial literacy. finance background. Yeah. Like, this is all brand new to me. Yeah. I have no accreditation. I've had, I've made horrible financial choices throughout my life, uh, but don't worry, I'm the one putting your plan together. direct, it's the first part, right? Like, obviously, the, the, the, the talented, um, studious people are gonna look at it after- Of course. sure looks right. Yeah. Um, but what I found was that more often than not, it looked right. Yeah. Right? And I had kind of a natural- understanding of how that would all work, which honestly is, is one of the, like, strangest turns in my story because I feel like up until that point and maybe, you know, some time after that, my biggest financial strength is that I survived all of my bad financial decisions. Um, and I think what that does is it creates a resiliency. It's essentially, you know, you're not gonna make all the right choices, you can make mistakes, but if you work hard enough, you can push through it. Right. And, you know, all along the way, you know, Jess and I, our parents were wonderful, loving parents, and they worked very hard, but they didn't have the means to support us, so we were always, you know, on our own- own. for the most part. Yeah. And, uh, I think that's what kind of made me fall in love with the industry that I was going into, the country that we were in for the opportunities that it provided. Mm-hmm. It made me understand that there was a chance for forward progress. Um, and having that natural gravitational pull to the planning combined with being put in a situation where I could learn, you know, it was a very, like, low-cost situation, low-risk, high-reward. Um, I got sponsored to take the 7. Yep. Took the 7. I called Mike with my results, I'm like, "Ah, Mike, I got, like, an 80." He's like, "That's perfect! You don't wanna get too high a score, you don't 'Cause that means you overstudied. Yeah, you- you gotta- Yeah. That's so- I'm so proud of you. Take the rest of the day off." I'm like, "Mike, it's 4 o'clock." I wasn't gonna go back into the office. Um It's 4 o'clock on a Friday. Take the rest of the day off. Yeah. Um, but it was great, and I was very happy there. Um, and then, you know, we were reaching a point where Jess and I wanted to start a family, and she was making a change in her career- Yeah. and it was time to move back to the East Coast and, you know, while it was hard to do, to, to leave, you know, this thing that was working out for me, um, I now had some licensing and some understanding and some experience, and I could go find- You have a foundation now. Right, exactly. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So, this seems like the first time in your life where you're learning finance in a way that's not just obviously balancing a checkbook- Mm-hmm. But you're starting to get an understanding of how other people make money, how other people are managing their money- Yeah. and what, like, it means to maybe be forward-thinking. Mm-hmm. Because, like, up until now, you've had to have been reactionary. Yeah. Yeah, it was very, um I think it- knowing that there was that out there, that option out there, where you could grow and, and evolve and just, like, increase your wealth- Yep. made me want to focus more on that, right? Right. And, you know, we moved, we moved back to Boston, um, at that time. And finally, finally, ironically, making inroads as a writer and getting hired to write things, so So now you have to make a decision. Um, yeah, So, at the Well, it wasn't a decision so much as balance, right? So, I'm- how old am I at that point? We moved to 2011, so it's probably- I'm 30 years old. Okay. Right. We move back east because it's time to settle down. Yep. Right? So, um, I'm in Wells Fargo. It's a big firm, you can transfer- Yeah. you would think, but turns out there's different channels and it wasn't that easy, and also, nobody needs an assistant in Boston. They need advisor, so Interesting. Gotta make the jump- Yeah. from, uh, the assistant to the advisor 'cause there's no other choice if you wanna stay at that firm. Sure. Or you can go start over. So, you broke off and became an advisor, then? So, yeah, I- I went in- With the blessing of your former boss? Yeah, uh, I think it was, he, he very much didn't want me to leave, but he understood the situation. Yeah. You know, it was a personal situation, um, and I- you know, he's one of the- the few advisors along the way that really helped me kinda get through this industry, because when we did move back, um, you know, I found myself with a- the clock, the countdown, right? You need to basically, you know, have e- have enough clients and have enough assets under management by X time or else you're out the door, You're out the door, right. And by the way, we're gonna continue to cut down your salary- Along the way. along the way, right? So you've got 3 years to make this work. Um, halfway through that period, you're gonna be back to where you were earning, you know, the $25,000 that you were- At best. at the entertainment, the entertainment industry. Yeah. So go figure this out. And, um, you know, my approach to that, having no natural network and, you know, nobody around me having any money, um, was to continue to support the advisors there. And I- I said, "Hey, you know, you guys doing this envision planning stuff?" And they're like, "Mm, they want us to." I'm like, "Well, I can do it for you." Hmm."And, uh, maybe you scratch my back." Yeah, "I'll help you." And, yeah. And, uh, you know, if you've got any of those clients that you think are too small for you or- Yeah. whatever, right? Well, let's do an exchange. Yeah. Um, and so I just kinda, like, did that. I went out and, uh, you know, I cold-called Boston University graduates. I remember one time I called this guy and I'm like, "Hey, you know, Wheeler Crowley. I'm calling from Wells Fargo Advisors," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He's like, "Uh-huh." And I'm like, "Anyways, I'm calling because we both went to Boston University." He's like, "So?" I'm like, "That's a good point. That's not really a connection.""This is Boston, there's so many people." So I'm like- It's like, you went to the 711 at 1 point in time. Yeah. I also went to that convenience store. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

And it's also at that point where, like, um, at 7:

30 at night, I'm calling this person randomly. And it's like, it's at that point where cold-calling isn't gonna work anymore either. Mm-hmm. Right? Um, so, you know, trying to find natural connections was not an easy thing to do. Um, but I kinda just, like, stuck it out, and dinked and dunked, and- and found my way through it all- Yeah. while Jess was in graduate school again. Okay. Taking on more debt. Yeah. Um, finally in a role where she, you know, was gonna get a good-paying job out of that, right? Sure. So, um, but we- So you've got some traction- Yeah. now from the sound- from the sounds of this. Yeah. We're building. Yeah. We- we know we wanna have a family, we wanna buy a home, right? Yeah. Um, I, you know, the writing is still working out, but I, at some point I realized that I was just gonna focus on this new path that I was on. Yeah. Um, and that the writing would always be there later. So did you find that along the way, obviously you gain an understanding of finance, and, you know, you're learning the planning side of things. Did your mentality about money change as you made more? I wouldn't say that I ever really made any money, like beyond just the, to pay the bills, you know. It, I don't know if it was ever week-to-week. I think what I was always very comfortable with, um, was living off that line of credit and then paying it off. Mm-hmm. So it's never a week-to-week situation when you have a line of credit, it's month-to-month. Right. Right? So we were month-to-month. Um, I think that I didn't start really making money until maybe a year after my daughter was born. Yeah. And at that point, it was, you know, it was more than you just have to survive. You've got another person to take care of. Yeah. Right? So, you know, just work harder, keep pushing. And the business that we're in, survival is like half the battle. It's really when you're- when you're starting out, it's really just making sure that you can stay in the game long enough where your efforts compound upon themselves. Mm-hmm. You know? So fast forward, you know, you're an advisor. We've met at this stage of the game, too. Yeah. You know, you're now at a different firm and all that other stuff. How did all that stuff impact the way that you, I'll say manage money or think about money today? Because I would think that given all the grind, given all the experience, like, and then now on the other side of that, like, you have a very unique experience with money that maybe a lot of people have that have grinded it through, but I bet that's kind of a lot of that generational-type wealth- Yeah. that really built it up.'Cause if you never had that struggle, you know, I- I would say that that's probably had the biggest impact is those first 30 years of your life. Yeah, I think it's a, it's a good point. I think it's- it's a lesson in resilience. Mm-hmm. Right? It's, you know, work hard, um, stay in the game, survive. Yep. And once you do that, you build up resiliency, build up patience. Yeah. So you go through these experience You know, if you think about the- the great financial- Crisis. crisis. Yeah. Right? The GFC in 2008. How did that impact me? It didn't. Yeah. Right? Um, because I didn't have any money. Right. Um, but, you know, i- it's a, that's, I think, a really interesting thing to focus on as well, because it's just a- a- a reminder that life goes on, right? And if you can just stick it out when the next crisis comes around, like it's COVID or something like that, then you've proven that you have resiliency. You can watch your, your investment portfolio go down and know that you've learned how to stick it out. Right. You've learned how to survive. You're gonna ride this out and get through it just like the last 1 Yeah. and the one after this one because you put yourself in that position. And I think about that sometimes as a dad, and I wonder, you know- I was just about to ask you this. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, what do you, what do you teach, right? Because you don't wanna teach You don't wanna teach anxiety. Mm-hmm. But you do wanna teach resilience.And when I think about the things, like the student loans I've had throughout my life, and Jess has had, there's not a lot of benefit to having those loans. Those, those loans are, have been a burden. Mm-hmm. And we don't have regrets over the choices we've made, because we're happy with the life that we're in right now. So, again, we, we've survived every financial decision. Um, so I don't want my daughter to have student loans, necessarily. But maybe they're, they take a different form. Right. You know, maybe we pay the bills, and she pays us back, and we just put that money away so that she has it for something else. happens. Right? Yeah. I, um, I was thinking about this a lot, because, um, you know, we have a different money story. But I remember when I started a business in Buffalo, and then that failed. Yeah. And I moved home. I was in a ton of debt, didn't have any money, and I asked my parents if I could move in with them. And my dad was like, "You can move in, but you have to pay rent." Right."And if you think I'm helping you get out of any of your debt, you're wrong." And that was the best thing he could have possibly have done. Yeah. Because, like, then it taught me. It's like, you know, well, there's that struggle, and it took me two and a half years to get out of it. But, you know, you did, and now you have a totally different relationship with the way that you look at the world and money and all that stuff- Yeah. which is really, like, a huge part of you and Jess. Yeah. It's funny, because, um, obviously, you know, now that I work in this industry, money's a, even a bigger part of our- Mm-hmm. our lives wha- because it's, it's- It's what you talk about every day. It's what, yeah, exactly. And it's, you know I think when I come in here, I'm not worried necessarily as much about the markets going down or the markets going up. Like, it sucks when the markets go down, obviously. Sure. But what I'm worried about are the clients that we need to, you know, we're gonna have those conversations where we're ca- trying to calm them down, and it's almost like you're, you're trying to impart on them the same kind of, um, I'll call it pragmatic optimism- Yeah. that you have about your own life, right? Mm-hmm. You're gonna get through this. We've done work to prepare for this. It's going to suck- Mm-hmm. but you're gonna be resilient. You're not gonna have to, you know, give up certain things because we put in the work ahead of time. Yeah. I think that's something that's really helped me in my life, and it's something that I really like to lean on when we're helping our clients. Resilience. Resilience. Yeah. Could be a leading word. Yeah. Word of the year. Yeah. For 2025, it's, it's a good one. I, I actually really like it. I think it definitely applies this year so far. Yeah. Um, that's very, very fascinating. Yeah. I feel like I've learned a ton about you today. Well, it's been, uh Boy, I glossed over a whole bunch of stuff, and we're running long, so- We can, we can unpack that later. We can do that some other time. Um- All right, cool. Well, thanks for tuning in. Thanks for sharing your story. Thank you, Colin- Yes. for being such a good interviewer today. Well, likewise, yes. Um, and, uh, I'm excited to, to share more of these stories. Me too. And, um, to find those commonalities with our clients, because I think your money story and my money story are familiar in different ways to different people. Yeah, yeah. So- I agree. Well, it's also, too, it's, it's very cool to learn, like, how people's experiences shapes their, I'll say, world, and how they ultimately interact with people around them and money, and I'll say planning- Yeah. because of those experiences. Yeah. So, anyway. 100%. So before I sat down with Colin to reflect on my journey, I was pretty nervous. I've made so many financial mistakes, or ignorant decisions, borderline reckless choices. I dug holes I didn't always know how to dig myself out of. Half of the time, I didn't even know I was in a hole in the first place. I graduated college with manageable debt, and then tripled that debt by going to grad school in hopes of a career that is, at l- best, a complete gamble. I moved cross-country with no job, no money, and a pretty expensive dream to chase. And when that dream didn't work out like I hoped, my solution to getting out of that situation was to gamble on a completely different career with a failure rate of 93%. I think I've carried this weird combination of pride and shame around with me. There was some real struggle in there, much of it avoidable, and yet, I found resilience in the struggle. I proved to myself that I was capable of finding a way out. There were times when I spent money freely, with blissful ignorance of the consequences of that spending, and now I aspire to spend money freely with the confidence that I've put myself in the position to do it. Similar behavior, completely different thought process. I'd be remiss not to mention here that I did all of this with a pretty incredible partner by my side. She took on all the risks with me, helped me navigate the messes I made. It's great when we have a support system like that. It's okay to ask for help when you need it. It's important to recognize and show appreciation for the people that help us get through. Finally, I'd like to highlight before we sign off the importance of taking advantage of the opportunities in front of us. There have been times in my life where certain situations broke right or shifted in my favor in a meaningful way, and you could say I was lucky, but I don't believe in luck. I think I put myself in the position to succeed, to recognize the opportunity put in front of me, and to take advantage of it. I recognize we don't all get the s- same opportunities. We often have to create our own opportunities, but we should always be working to put ourselves in the position to succeed, whatever that looks like. Thank you again for tuning in and taking the time to get to know us a little better. If you liked what you heard or found any of it useful, please like and subscribe and share with your friends. 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