Compound Growth

Episode 10- Skills, Passion & The Ikigai Path

• Compound Growth • Season 1 • Episode 10

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In this episode of Compound Growth, Wheeler and Colin take a deep dive into the complicated advice of "follow your passion." From personal stories to philosophical frameworks like ikigai, they explore what it really means to find meaningful work and a fulfilling life. Through conversations about everything from the Mona Lisa's rise to fame to job satisfaction among farmers, they challenge the idea that passion alone leads to purpose or success.

They also tackle the economic realities young people face today: college debt, shifting career paths, and the pressure to "find yourself" early. Drawing on both lived experience and client conversations, they unpack why the most satisfying work is often the hardest, and how skill development can lead to long-term joy and stability. Whether it's cooking rice for four years or grinding through a failed business, they suggest the journey itself is the point—and often the most rewarding part.

Ultimately, they argue that fulfillment lies not in choosing between passion or skills, but in finding where the two overlap. Growth happens not in the neatly balanced moments, but in the tension and grind. This episode is a reminder to slow down, explore widely, and trust that clarity comes with time—and effort.

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Credits:
Created By: Wheeler Crowley and Colin Walker
Production Assistance: Tori Rothwell
Editing and Post-Production: Steven Sims

We're at dinner at Throwback, as I told you guys earlier today. Mm-hmm. Great, great brewery, great food, women-owned business, if you wanna support locally women-owned businesses. Totally. Um, so we're talking about what we're gonna do on this trip to London and Paris, and obviously we're gonna go to the Louvre. Yes. Right? And Michaela was asking like, "What's so special about the Louvre?" And we're like, "Well, you know, it's just one of those It's like the most famous art museum in the world." You have to see it. Right? Yeah. And I'm sure, yeah, you can't really explain it. You kinda have to just take it in. And I said, "Well, we'll be able to see the Mona Lisa." And I said, "You know, it's gonna be somewhat underwhelming," right? Like, it's just, just this painting, but it's very famous. Yep. And then, then we were talking about who painted it. Okay. So Colin, who painted the Mona Lisa? Wasn't I know it wasn't Michelangelo. It was a different Ninja Turtle. Oh. Different Ninja Turtle. Not- Not Michelangelo. Not Raphael? Not Raphael. I'm gonna look like an idiot. No, you're not. This is the point. It's Leonardo da Vinci. Yeah, Leonardo da Vinci. Yep. All right, so da Vinci painted it. Michaela said, "Oh, yeah. It was, you know, da Vinci." And Jess was like, "No. No, it wasn't." And sometimes- Such certainty. you were so certain when- Yeah. you know? And she, like, and she- I probably would've gotten that, but then you put me on the spot- Right? and I think to myself, "Am I wrong?" Right. Exactly. So I, I think it's funny when we're You know, we all have those moments where we're so certain about something and- Right. but then, to Jessica's credit, she's like, "Oh. Right, obviously." So then So Michaela knew who painted it, right, which I thought was good. It's great. Right? She's 11, so she's The fact that she knows these things is great. Uh, then she's like, "You know, it's funny how it wasn't even famous until somebody stole it." That's true. I know. Yeah. I know it's true. You know it's true, but my 11-year-old? I was very shocked that she knew. Yeah. Well, that's, um, Storm in the Sea of Galilee. That was the museum in Boston- Oh, the Elizabeth Stuart Gardner. that Correct. Yeah. The Gardner Museum that had the huge heist. Yeah. That was a famous painting, and that was their hallmark, but that painting became huge and unbelievably famous- Right. the moment it was stolen. Allegedly, they have found it. Did you see this? Uh, yes, I heard this last year or something. The Yeah. Yeah, the FBI walked into some art gallery and took some painting off of the wall that they said was a remake of the painting, but they- It was a actual painting. it was the actual version of it. That's funny. Now, that hasn't come out yet. The FBI hasn't released a statement last I checked, there was like 20 FBI agents that walked in and raided this and took it off the wall, and- Hmm. it's very interesting. Do you know where the Mona Lisa was stolen from? I don't know the history of it apart from the fact that it was stolen. It was stolen. It was stolen from the Louvre, and it was- Okay. it was a, like a notable artwork because, uh The next thing that my daughter asked was the followup. So there's this painting. It's world-famous now. It wasn't famous- Yeah. until it was stolen. So logically, her question was, "Why did somebody steal it?" Right? It's the worst painting in the Louvre. It's just like- Wait till you go to the Louvre. You're gonna be Like, every single piece of art is more impressive than this. Right. So she's like, "Why did somebody steal it if it wasn't famous?" And I'm like, "That's a really good question. I've never thought that before." And I think it's just so cool that she had that perspective. For sure was hanging in some guy's castle for like a really long time. I don't f- It was with one family. Well, it was stolen Possibly. Before it got to the Louvre? Yeah. Okay, yeah. It was stolen in 1911, so it was like, this is all relatively- Recent. recent. Um, and it was stolen because it was a notable piece of artwork from Italy. Right. Right? And it was meant to be just kinda like a national win for this, this- Right. The guy who stole it was Italian. He's like, "I'm gonna bring this back to the country-" To Italy." where it's from." Yep. Right? Um, which is better than like protesting by throwing paint at famous artwork or- Pieces of cake. or whatever it might be. Um, but anyways, I just thought, I thought it was interesting. I think it's cool when you take things that you know and then you wonder why you know them and what else you should know about it. And it's, it's I'm just proud that she has that layered approach to thinking, you know? You wanna know what I always think about? And it is a quote from I think The Matrix Reloaded is the second one. Is that true? That is the second one. Yes. Okay. Um, and it's when he's sitting down with the Oracle and they're on that park bench. Hmm. And he talks about all the different systems and programs. The Oracle says to him, "You know, you only typically notice things that aren't doing the thing that they're supposed to be doing." Right. Which kinda speaks to this, because if the painting was just another painting in the Louvre, it would be beautiful or impressive because it's da Vinci. She has that look on her face. But the fact that it was stolen- Yeah. makes it famous. Yeah. The fact that something happened, it s- sticks out. It's like that Chinese proverb, "The nail that sticks out gets hammered." Right. But you pay attention to it. Yeah. You notice that. Yeah. And that's an interesting thing in regards to the Gardner Museum or this Welcome to the Compound Growth podcast with Colin and Wheeler, where we talk all things growth. From financial growth to career growth, personal development to societal progress, we explore how each layer builds on the next, compounding over time to shape who we become. Each week, we break down complex ideas and emerging trends into clear, actionable insights, because growth isn't just about numbers. It's about understanding the world and our place in it. The information in this material is for general information only and is not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. investment advice offered through Integrated Partners, doing business as COFI Advisors, LLC, a registered investment advisor. Integrated Partners does not provide legal, tax, mortgage advice or services. Please consult your legal tax advisor regarding your specific situation. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. All investing involves risk, including loss of principal. No strategy assures success or protects against loss. The economic forecasts set forth in this material may not develop as predicted, and there can be no guarantee that the strategies promoted will be successful. I have a topic I want to talk about today, and it's something that always comes up with our clients, particularly our younger clients' conversation. Now, I feel like you and I discuss this at times, maybe loosely, but something that I struggle with is the advice of follow your passion. Mm-hmm. Because I find that when you give that advice, oftentimes people are like, "Well, what am I passionate about? And then how do I make a career out of it?" And that can sometimes lead you down a path where you don't enjoy your passion anymore. Yeah. And something I always go back and forth on with this is advice that my dad gave me growing up, which I've always been passionate about cars or, you know, whatever it might be, and I was like, "Well, maybe I should be a mechanic." My dad's like, "Wouldn't it be better to own and enjoy cars as a hobby-" Mm-hmm." than to be the person working every day on them?" And he was like, "I'm not discouraging you to going down that path, but think about what you want your relationship with your passion to be." And I'm curious to get your take on this, because I have a lot of thoughts on this. Yeah. Well, and I look forward to exploring all your thoughts. I- I think obviously I have personal experience with this- Mm-hmm. conundrum, and I- it's been a long journey to get to the place where I'm at with it. And I have to say that there's a certain amount of privilege that's kind of wrapped up in this, like, "Should I follow my passion or should I follow my skills or whatever it might be?" And not everybody gets to make those choices. Right. Right? But if you find yourself in a situation where you are able to make those choices, I think that you can't define yourself by either one, right? Like you get to love cars, and you don't have to break your back as a mechanic every day. Correct. My brother does break his back as a mechanic every day, and it's- Yeah. it's brutal, and it can't last forever, right? It's tough work. Yeah. I don't think there's an easy answer. I think, though, the- your relationship with yourself and how you define yourself is far more important to explore there. But let's- let's dive into some of the thoughts that you've had. So, on this, I guess when I think about following your passion versus, you know, whether or not you should just develop skills and everything, I also look at a few different things i- in terms of like joy from and satisfaction from a job. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I look at, uh, my wife right now, who's starting as a PA, and she's new to the job. She has a lot of stress. She's trying to figure stuff out, and she doesn't feel as confident in herself as she would maybe if she had been doing this for 10 years down the line. Obviously, the more time you have doing something, the more confident you're gonna be at delivering advice or doing the job, the task, whatever it might be, because you have experience. So, my theory with this is the more confident and the more developed your skills are, the more satisfaction you'll have in a job. So, I guess if I translate and unpack that a little bit more, I would say joy and satisfaction in a job probably comes from your ability to do it effectively. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I think if you're feeling like a fish out of water, like that sense of unease- Mm-hmm. yeah, that's- it- it's really hard to get over that. it, it's really hard to get over that. I think I've definitely felt that along the way when I was, you know, when I found myself post-college managing a dining hall system- Yeah. for another school far away from anything I'd known. You know, to put, I was put in charge of, you know, a dozen people. I was creating the menu plan. Mm-hmm. You know, I was making sure everybody did what they were supposed to do. Like, that was a lot of responsibility that I had no preparation for or experience with, and it was also stuff I didn't really care about, right? Like, I didn't want to be there. Right. I really didn't wanna be there, and that probably translated to my work, you know? Right. I was laid off a year in, and at that point I'd already decided that I wanted to go back to grad school, which is, fine. Yeah. But I think that the fact that I felt like I was in the wrong place and that I didn't really like the work and I didn't really care about the work absolutely came into play when they chose to let me go. So I wanna keep going because, um, on that front, I don't know if you ever had a passion for finance until you got into it. Yeah, yeah. I don't think that my passion is actually for finance itself, right? So sometimes I feel like y- what I'm passionate about is connecting with other people and understanding other people, helping other people and helping them understand this aspect of their life, right? So do you find that to be, like, a skill set that you've had- No. probably before this job, or was that something that was honed by coming into wealth management? I think it absolutely I think the way that my brain works probably had a naturally align, natural alignment with the planning aspect of this. Like, we talked about this in my backstory. Right. You know, having, having this kinda software put in front of me and being able to connect the dots and put the puzzle together and then being able to explain it, um, that probably was a combination of a natural skill set and also just kinda world experience, right? Right. I feel like if you drop a 23-year-old into this and say, "Put together a financial plan and then make sure that everybody who's nearing retirement understands the impact emotionally." And like, it's, it, I feel like there's, there's some limitations. When you just follow one track, this is what I think college is really at its best there for, it's to kinda give you broad exposure to different theories and experiences. And if you can broaden your exposure throughout life and learn how to translate that to what you're working on every day, it really, really helps. And that doesn't apply to every, you know, every walk of life or every career. Yeah, I, I think that's a very good point, because, eh, I guess what I think about when it comes to this sort of thing is, let's look at, like, college debt as a perfect example. Mm-hmm. So there's $2 trillion of college debt right now. Yeah. Something that's kind of interesting, and I was doing my research on this last night, 50%, 52% of people that graduate from college don't end up using their degree. And in fact, 40% of people that graduate go into jobs that never required a college degree. So they get a degree, and then they end up not only not using that degree, but then also just finding themselves in a career where they didn't have to spend all that money getting the degree in the first place. That's correct. Okay. So if you think about the college debt levels that are out there, the average college debt that someone graduates with is $37,000. Yeah. But half of the people that graduate with college debt didn't actually need to take any on. Well, I guess the question is how expensive is the school of life, right? That's fair. So if you're going to college, I think if you were to take that experience and say that, "I, this is what I'm paying for, I'm paying for an experience," now granted, there are a lot of majors out there that do provide a high level of satisfaction and do align you with a career, like engineering or healthcare or something like that. You know, most people that go premed do end up in healthcare in the same way that engineers do wind up most of the time becoming engineers or starting a company or something. But there are a lot of education ma- or sorry, there's a lot of majors out there that will give you an education in something that may not apply and will just tack on a lot of debt, and that's something that I think I struggle with personally when I look at a lot of our clients and work with them and their kids. Yeah, yeah. I think obviously there, there are layers to this story as well, because there's the need for education, whether it's there or not. There's obviously the cost component and, and how extreme it should be. We were looking at this, so we have a client that her niece is going to Princeton, right? Right. So we were looking at the cost of Princeton, and it was 80-something thousand dollars, right, including- Exorbitantly expensive. incidentals, right. And then after, after aid, the average cost is actually, like, $37,000, which if you think about tha- that, like, the, uh, the price of the Princeton education experience at $37,000 feels like a- pretty reasonable price, like, a really good deal, right? It does. And it's, like, okay- so they have this e- endowment, right? And this endowment allows them to do that, but what, how is that value spread, like, ascertained? How do they determine that it should cost $87,000, but we can get this to you for $37,000? It doesn't make any sense. No. It's shocking to me, and I, I get the fact that they, they, they determine the value. Right. You don't determine the value. No. And I think that the culture, I guess, determines the value to a degree for a school like Princeton because it's just notable. It's, you know, has this reputation. You hope that you're gonna have the right connections to get you where you wanna go in life after you go to Princeton, et cetera. Yeah. Um, any of the Ivies are like that or the Junior Ivies are like that, or some of the tech schools are like that. Uh, even schools like Miami where, when I was, back in my day, uh, like- looking at schools, I don't think I thought of University of Miami as a great school, but now it's like everybody's fighting to get into the University of Miami. That's true. Uh, I just, I, I think about the, um, the way that the system is set up right now and pretty much everybody's graduating wanting to go and get a college degree. Yeah. And I appreciate the fact that it's gonna give you a lot of great experiences, and I wouldn't give my college experience up for anything. Yeah. And ultimately, I did actually wind up using my degree. Yeah. But- But I feel like you're a rarity. I'm a rarity with that. Yeah. Because a lot of the people I graduated with didn't end up using their college degree. Yeah. Or they're in some different part or different field that it, it doesn't make any sense. So the skills though that came out of that, I, I would say the reason why I winded up using my degree isn't necessarily because I got a finance degree. The reason why I got a finance degree is because I recognized that I had certain skills of talking with people, I really liked numbers, and I realized that those were some skills that I had that aligned me with that, and maybe I was just early to that conversation. But if someone has certain skills, do you think that that can give them joy and passion if they align their career with their skills? I do. I do think that. And I'll actually just say, backing up a little bit, I feel like some of the skills that you have that you bring to the table, you probably did pick up either- Along way. yeah, e- either in college or just w- when you were getting your MBA. Like, I feel like sometimes I am impressed by your line of thinking or your recall on certain mathematical facts or just- Thank you. areas finance that are It's not that they're less important to me, they're just not something I think about every day. You and I don't, we're not the same person, right? Right. We operate very differently. Yeah. Um, and I think that your background absolutely in- informs that, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, are you familiar with the concept of ikigai? No. All right, so this is a Japanese concept. I love Japanese. And because it's layered and contextual, I'm going to refer to my computer- Please. while I explain it. Uh, but essentially this is where, uh, you get the intersection of meaning and purpose and joy frequently with work, right? Okay. So it's not, "Should I h- follow my passion or should I follow my skill?" But trying to find where those 2 pieces connect. Interesting. Right? So ideally there are 4 pillars of ikigai, and I think I am not butchering h- the pronunciation of that. Jessica was trying to work on this with me last night, and it was kind of like- I will tell you, I will not be the one to correct you. It's like when we were at breakfast the other day talking about how to pronounce Kriller. Yes. It's, you know, it's sometimes- Phonics is not his strength. Well, and it's, uh, phonics in a different language is different. It's a whole other can of worms, but- Right. anyways, so the 4 pillars of ikigai I'm just looking at Tory and seeing if she's gonna correct me, but she has no idea. Uh, so number one, what you love, so passion and enjoyment. 2, what you're good at, skills and strengths. 3, what the world needs, purpose and relevance. And 4, what you can get paid for. So it's basically this perfect intersection of enjoyment, creating value for the world, getting paid, and what you feel is going to give you fulfillment, right? Mm. I actually think that I've stumbled into that in my career and I thought that I was put on this earth to do something entirely different. Like when I, when, when I I don't want to say gave up on screenwriting, but when I basically said, "This is not going to happen the way I had hoped it would," right?"I can move cross-country and continue to work on it from there." But I went through a some form of depression there because I was, A, really happy in LA. Like I just I was very happy with my life in LA, but I was also, um, very happy that I was so connected to this industry and I thought that I was put here on this earth for that, for that. This was your dream. This was It's, it's It was my dream, it was my purpose in my mind. Right, um, it was not something I was getting paid for so I didn't quite get that magic intersection. But I do think that it proves how wrong we can be. Just going back to, you know, how I started this conversation today. You can be so certain about something and be 100% wrong in the long run, and maybe in that moment it's, uh, 100% right. But I think if you're not prepared to be flexible, which is a hard thing for me, um, or to be able to, to kind of, like, just adapt and take a right turn, you know- Something. something. I, I found myself in a much better position now than I ever was before, and I'm very fortunate for that. But I think this concept of ikigai is not necessarily always about finding it at work, but kind of finding it in, like, all the little things. And this is actually something where privilege doesn't necessarily come into play, because in the Japanese culture, ikigai can be found in, you know, your relationship with your grandchild, or, uh, the way you tend to your garden, right? Let's say that you have a, a nice garden on the, you know, outside of your home and everybody gets to walk by and, and benefit from that garden, right? That can be your source of pride, your source of joy and fulfillment, right? You're contributing to the world, not in an economic way- Right. but you're doing something like that. And this is actually why I really enjoy The Bear so much, the TV show, because there's just, like, all these different ways in a kitchen, in a dining experience to find that and share it with the world. I am so glad you brought this up. Okay. Have you seen Jiro Dreams of Sushi? You've told me about this night, admittedly have never followed through on watching it. It's okay, I forgive you. Uh, fascinating documentary. It is a guy that owns probably the most famous sushi restaurant in the entire world. Right. It's a 9seat restaurant at the bottom of a strip mall. wow. Like, you go in, it's down the stairs, and it's in this little place. Okay. Yeah. Michelin 3starred restaurant, I have no idea how you can get a reservation there, but pretty much every US president goes to this place and- Okay. it's like a absorbently expensive meal and the whole thing's, like, 25 minutes. Hm. Anyway, this guy, you work at this restaurant, and I This may not be strictly accurate, but I'm pretty positive I'm remembering this correctly. The apprenticeship is, like, 10 years long. Mm-hmm. In your first 4 years, the only thing you're doing is cooking rice. You cook rice for 4 years until you can touch a fish- because this guy has been making sushi, uh, uh He's probably in his 90s now, and every single piece of sushi is perfect. And he strives for perfection in everything that he does, and his message in this documentary isn't necessarily about sushi, but the strive to hone and perfect your skill at something brings him joy. And that's kind of what ikigai is s- seemingly talking about. I mean, it does It's no You know, it's, it's not a mistake or- No. a coincidence that the concept is that culture, and that culture is Look at samurai swords. Yeah. I mean, the art of making samurai swords- Right. has gone back thousands of years and people still make them today. And I just bought, um, a Japanese knife. Right, yeah. And it's made by the same family for several hundred years and it's gonna last forever, hopefully- Yep. until they break it, but it's- I think- That, that, that to me, I think, is amazing because you have the f- the thought process of having a skill and honing that skill, and that being your focus to be the best you can possibly be at something should probably, in my mind, drive results and passion, and hopefully financial success as well. Yeah. I think actually, going back to your question, I have a lot of thoughts on this because I, I do feel like the, the transient nature of our current culture, in this country anyways- Mm-hmm. is, you know, you have the attention span for 10 seconds of this TikTok video and then, like, moving on. That's it, right? And I, I think that I don't know if it's because we're such a relatively young country, like maybe we just don't have some of the maturity of a place like Japan- Right. to a degree culturally. Um, but-If you're- if you're wondering, like if you're thinking about this as a, just a- a high school student or college student, or soon to be graduate, or you're thinking about this in terms of career, I actually think the question shouldn't be to follow your passion or follow your skills. It's, "What do you want for your life?" Right? Mm-hmm. And where do you see career falling into your life? Yeah. Right? It's a part of who you are, but it's not everything. And I feel like sometimes people go down these routes because they're very insistent on solving one certain goal. It's, you know, "I want to write and get paid for it, so I wanna be able to write all day." Yeah. Right? Or, "I wanna make a lot of money," or, "I want to-" Or, desperate to make a lot of money." Yeah, whatever it might be. Right. And I think, you know, we were talking about this this morning, there are some people that we know that are motivated by money and some people that aren't. Right? Right. And if you can figure out your why, right? Like if you can figure out what you're working towards, which I think is really hard in your teens and early 20s, I- t- to know where you're going to be 20 years later, I- it's a very rare case where you can just be that focused on one thing. And I think arguably, if you are that focused on one thing, you're missing out on way mo- way more. Probably. One thing you brought up to bear- Mm-hmm. and I had this thought last night that, "I wonder if work/life balance leads to happiness." So- And I have a result. I'll tell you one thing. Yes? I just gotta interrupt you really quick to say that Jessica is so anti work/life balance. Perfect. I am too. So, I was watching Clarkson Farms last night. Mm-hmm. I love that show. And it is absolutely fascinating to me because I didn't know anything about farming, and I had 0 interest in farming. Yeah. But this show takes you through the struggles of being a farmer. Now Jeremy Clarkson has a lot of money. He had a huge career and success with fame through Top Gear, and he started this farm. And I think it was last year- Mm-hmm. 2024 was one of the worst farming years in history in the UK. The crop yields were lower than, like, ever recorded. Massive droughts then massive floods, like- Ugh. huge bug problems on all the farms. The yields were pretty much completely decimated to the point where if they have another year like that this year, hundreds of farmers are out of the job and they're gonna have to close their farms, their families gonna lose their land, they're totally done. And what was amazing about this is they were the happiest people. They work a ton of hours. They're on their tractors pulling all-nighters. You know, they're out there in the pouring rain trying to get the cows out of mud. You know, they're trying to figure out how to make a dollar to feed their family. And farming has an extremely high level of job satisfaction. Mm-hmm. Despite the fact you make hardly any money, but you have purpose and you're working your ass off. And then you look at other jobs that have extremely high levels of satisfaction. Chefs? Mm-hmm. Terrible hours, terrible work/life balance, super high job satisfaction. You look at people in healthcare, surgeons. Terrible work/life balance, very, very difficult jobs, very high levels of job satisfaction. And it's interesting because if you look at some of the jobs that are the most lax, it's the lowest levels of job satisfaction. I'm curious to get your take on this. Yeah. I think maybe some aspect of this actually falls into the word you just used, was lax. Right? Maybe if it's feeling unnecessary, it feels unimportant, it feels- Mm. like it's just, what's the point? Right? So you tie that to almost kinda being, like, your worth if you're not needed as much. Yeah. I have a friend, we haven't admittedly spoken for a little while, but he, uh, he's somebody who is a pretty m- he's been pretty miserable- Okay. for a long time. And he found himself working a government job. in this government job when he was remote, he would just, like, go home and, like, play video games and check in on- Do nothing. things or whatever. And h- he, you know, would, he would brag about it, like his job is so easy. And I s- I could see that feeling like a perk. Like it's, you know, I get paid, you get paid, he got paid good money, and he didn't have to work very hard, but he was miserable. Right. And he's been constantly searching for his purpose in life, and he hasn't been able to find it. And he's tried it a lot of different places and a lot of different paths, and, you know, maybe he's finally found it now. But he didn't have it then, and it's true, like if, if you Some of it also must come down to your mindset though. Like if you've, if you can find purpose in making rice every day for 3 years, you know, if that can be fulfilling to you, that's, that's a mindset. That's something that's bigger as culture. Maybe so, but I look at my own life and the times in my life where I was the happiest wasn't necessarily where I had the most flexibility. Right. And it wasn't necessarily when I had, I'll say, the most financial, um, stability. Right. Oftentimes, it was quite the opposite. Oftentimes, I was happiest in the parts of life where I was struggling the most. Yeah. And those years where I was grinding it out and super busy, you almost don't have time to think and be depressed. Yeah. At least that's what I found personally, but a wandering mind can be tough. Yeah. And if you're always so busy and so focused, it's like the Arnold Schwarzenegger documentary, and I don't know if you've seen that one. I have, yeah. But he always talks about how, you know, his childhood was pretty rough and it ended up kind of killing his brother, but for him, he used that to drive himself. And whenever he wasn't busy, he would find a way to make him busy. Right. I think not everybody is the same, right? Totally. So you can put, you know, Arnold and his brother in the same situation, they'll have s- totally same, different paths. Yeah. But I do think that Arnold is, like, this very driven person that we talk about because he's notably driven. Mm-hmm. This back to your point earlier, it's, you know, he stands out. He's not Everybody can't be Arnold Schwarzenegger, right? Right. And I think that there's I, when you said that some of the harder times were some of your happiest times, that resonated with me because there was one summer in particular, uh, when Jess and I were living in Portland, and we had no money. Uh, it was between sophomore and junior year of college. So, um, we were actually still young to go out and drink, so we didn't, we weren't going out and we didn't need money for that. Uh, I worked at Blockbuster. It was- Nice. RIP. Yeah, RIP Blockbuster. But I had all the videos we wanted, or DVDs, I think we were still doing DVDs at that point. Um, Jess had, like, 3 or 4 different jobs, uh- Okay. including, she worked for a company called Aging Excellence which is, you know, basically helping the elderly with various, in various forms. Mm-hmm. You know, to the point where she wasn't exactly doing hospice work, but, you know, there was a guy that she would just go and sit with him and, you know, not too long into her time, he passed, right? Mm-hmm. And, like, it was not rewarding. Like she was out there, that she did one thing where she was going, like, door to door asking for signatures, like all in, like, the, you know, small towns outside of Portland. You know, we were just trying to find a way to make any money that we could to get by, and we had a budget of $40 a week for groceries. And, you know, that was, uh, w- how far can we stretch this at the grocery store? Right. And, but I have, I look back on that summer so fondly. And you smile. Yeah. that was a low stakes time in our lives, right? If we had kids- Different story. that would have been miserable, right? Right. If we'd been 40 or 50 and living off of that same amount of money, it would feel like we can't ever make any progress, right? Mm-hmm. So sometimes it's about where you are in life at this point Yeah. You know? that's really interesting. So as we, as you take that and you look back on those memories fondly, but everybody talks about now how they want all this flexibility and working from home- Mm-hmm. and all that kind of other stuff. Do you think that maybe the problem is, is a lot of maybe the, like, m- maybe, a lot of the mental issues to be honest, you know, with depression and trying to find a career and people switching majors, the average person switches majors 3 times- Wow. in their life. Like, the, maybe the, like, lack of complacency with some of this stuff is the fact that there's maybe too much time out there and not enough grind or not enough motivation. Or maybe there's not enough satisfaction or self-fulfillment, right? Like, if you're thinking about the farmers, right? Yeah. And you say, like, they don't, they're not really m- maybe bogged down by existential questions unless it's existential threats to their livelihood. Fair. But, you know, they're not Eh, I think if you take the simplistic point of if you're not trying to figure out how to keep up with a Jones or how to impress, you know, a future husband or wife- Mm-hmm. you know, if you're raising your kid the right way, or what. If you're not kind of bogged down with all of these impactful pressures- Yep. that society puts on you, if you can kind of keep things simple, then I don't know if you're questioning things as much. You Because you're so into- Yeah, you're on your path. what you're doing. So, okay, let's take that. If you were to give advice to a high schooler right now- Yeah. what would be your advice, knowing that the, uh, concept of work/life balance may be a little flawed? We're taking Japanese culture into this. Mm-hmm. We're taking our own life experiences. How do you translate that? I think that the best thing anybody can have is a lack of pressure to find themselves. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, if they, if they don't need to If they don't need to feel like they've found their purpose, and this is the path and they're on that path- Mm-hmm. if they can just kind of take time to explore and figure out what their calling is, right? There's this concept, uh, Liz Gilbert wrote this book called Big Magic, and it's a creative book. It's about basically trying to open yourself out to open self Sorry. Woo-woo stuff, but I'm, I'm a fan. Um, it's, you know, I'm very woo-woo. It's opening yourself up to the universe and you're basically saying, you know, what is If you're trying to create, you look for the ideas. Everybody wants, like, the big idea, right? And sometimes we think that we're creating the big idea, but it's actually the big idea that finds us. Right? And if you kind of just sit and wait and work on something, you could work on something, and then that big idea will interrupt what you're working on and say, "Hey, do you wanna pay attention to this instead?" And then you can say, "Well, I'm not ready for you right now." And then the big idea will say, "Okay. Well, I'll go find somebody else who is," and then that person will write something and then you'll be like, "Wait, that was my idea." Right? But it wasn't your idea. You have never had ownership over that idea. It was the universe, and you don't, like, get a right to claim the land. You don't actually get to claim the idea. And this is something that, like, writers are always worried about, like plagiarism, or, like, somebody stealing your idea or whatever. Right. But there are also only so many stories to be told. But I think, in general, if you are out there and you're kind of just like feeling things out, you work this job, you work that job, you read this book, you listen to this pod- podcast or whatever, you kind of just, like, put yourself out there to the world, it will find you. And you will find your place in it. Do you think the big opportunity in the universe for you that's being put out there is where you are currently? I do. Yeah. I think I'm, I'm still fortunate that this is where I'm supposed to be. I'm supposed to be here with you making this podcast. I'm supposed to be working on Ko-fi with you. I'm supposed to be raising my daughter with my wife in this area. Yeah. I feel very much like this is where I'm supposed to be. I agree. Yeah. As I think about your response, I resonate with it a lot. I'll say, if I'm to take this back a little bit though, I had a conversation over the weekend with a friend of mine who's starting a business. The problem is, in my opinion, the reason why a lot of people try to start a business is because they wanna make a lot of money. Mm-hmm. They want a ton of flexibility, and they don't want to work for other people. Right. Yeah. I have found, personally, all of the business owners that we work with have worked with other people before to learn skills that they honed and got really good at. They work more hours than anyone else I know, for the most part. Uh, I mean, if you've had a business for 20 years and you've hired the right people, maybe that's different. Maybe that gets you good flexibility and stuff like that. Um, and oftentimes, at the beginning, your compensation is lower than most people. Mm-hmm. And when it comes to careers and all of that sort of thing, what we were just discussing was the fact that often when you have the most flexibility, that's kind of tough times. Yeah. And as I was talking with my buddy about this, all of his motivations, in my opinion, were that he didn't really wanna work, and he wanted to make more money and all this other stuff. And I love him but, you know, you can't be afraid of the struggle and trying new things and failing. Yeah. And when I started my first business back in the day, and that failed, y- it was tough. But you come out of that learning a lot, and that was some of the happiest times, was the struggle of that. And I think that you go through all of that crap, and you grind it out, and then that leads you into this place that the universe, you mentioned, kinda puts in front of you. Yeah. But if I didn't get those skills, I don't know if we w- I would've been successful at this. I- I think you're 100% right, and I think that we're always in a rush. We want everything, and we want it now. Totally. And I can absolutely empathize with that feeling. Mm-hmm. But you have to just slow down- Yeah. and, you know, let certain things come to you and y- it doesn't mean that you can't be proactive. You can try to, you can think about, "Hey, maybe this is a thing," and go chase that thing. Mm-hmm. But you have to be prepared to about face and go to something else if that wasn't the thing. Yeah. And I just, I feel like everybody's in such a rush, and we have these short attention spans, and all of this flashy, materialistic I honestly think we're actually taking something like life, like, um, you know, experiences or how you're supposed to live life and we're making it materialistic. We're- We are. basically just saying, "Hey, everybody should have this." And it's a have still. It is. It's like something to have, and it's just like, let's s- slow down, just enjoy your life, explore. Yeah. It's a big world. Figure it out, you know? I think that when it comes to skills and what you were just talking about, exploring, to me, has been probably the most fun part. Yeah. And developing those types of things, trying all these different jobs, and not being afraid to put off college for a little bit until you kind of get your priorities in check. Mm-hmm. Because if you're just gonna try to go and get a degree and take on all of this debt, and not use the degree, then that sets you back a good chunk. One thing I appreciate when I was in Australia, there's something called, um, I think it's called Schoolies, where basically you graduate from what they consider high school, then you have a year off. Yeah. And a lot of people travel during that year, they try a bunch of different jobs, they intern, whatever it might be, and they kinda find themselves, versus taking on the debt while trying to find yourself at the exact same time. Yeah, uh, the gap year concept. The gap year. Yeah. Because if you can develop some skills, and if you can get some sense of guidance, not only will that save you financially, but you could get some pretty good direction along the way to align yourself with a skillset that's gonna, I'll say, hopefully deliver results both in terms of passion and financial stability. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's certainly a path. Right? It's, I don't know of what the right, there's, ev- it's for everybody that's There's right or wrong. So I think it's I feel like when people go to college, and sometimes this is just about what school they go to, but they aren't always going for themselves. Mm-hmm. You know? Sometimes they're going for their parents, or sometimes they're going for their friends because their friends are going, and they are, you know, they think they might be doing it for themselves, but they're doing it because of other people. And I am not anti-higher education- Same. by any means. I think that it's, I'm very happy I went to college. And if my daughter wants to go to college, I'll be very happy for her, and if she doesn't want to go to college, I will be very happy for her. Right? Because it's just an option, and it's not that it should be the only option, and I think your stats that you had at the beginning are a really relevant point. I think that if you wanna make a lot of money, that might be the best path for you, but you have to figure out why you wanna make a lot of money. Yeah, it's, it's interesting, and I'm glad we had this discussion because this, like I said in the beginning, always comes up with our clients and younger clients where, "Well, I just wanna do something I'm passionate about." Right. You know? Well, um, I think that you'll have a really high level of job satisfaction if the skills that you've developed are being used and appreciated, and you're able to deploy them in a way where you're making a difference. Yeah. And that may not be, "Okay, well, I'm really into knitting, so I'm gonna sew sweaters all day." Yeah. Whatever your passion might be. And that, I think, to me, has been the delineation because when you look at these, the Japanese, what was it called? Ikigai. Ikigai. Iki, not icky. Like, that's the word I guess I got. Was it icky? It's ikki. Ikkie. Okay. What he said. When you look at that and the high levels of job satisfaction that come from the areas in the field that require the highest levels of work- Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I think it's, I guess, if we're going back to the question that, you know, whether you should follow your passion or follow your skills, it's a, it's not either/or, it's yes and. Right. Right? Follow, just follow your path and, I think that's, I mean, that's a classic improv thing, right? It is. It's whenever the, whatever comes up, you say, "Yes, and" And at some point you have to learn to say no because not everything is, you know, some things are to your detriment, obviously. Yeah. If you find something you really like, get really good at it. Yeah. I, this is something that I struggle with from a consumption standpoint. Mm-hmm. I take a yes and approach to consumption as well. It's like, "You wanna do this trip?""Yes, and I wanna do that trip," so That's fair. But, uh- We live in a materialistic world. It's true. It's true. Yeah. But, yes. Bottom line, um, it's not either/or. I don't think it should be either/or. And I think that we have to open ourselves up to understanding what passion and skills can be and what they can look like, and they could take many different forms, just like the artwork at the beginning of our conversation. Yeah, I just think this blanket statement of following your passion leaves so much to be desired. Yes. And it's just not a fair statement. It's a dangerous statement for sure. It is. Reflecting back on episode 10, this one hit close to home. There's a lot of noise out there about following your passion, but I think the real power comes from developing skills, getting really good at something and letting that guide you. Life is messy, and growth often comes from the imbalance, from the hard stuff, especially for young people navigating college and careers today. The best advice might be don't rush the process. Get curious, try things, and let your skills shape your path. Thanks for listening. If this sparked anything for you, share it with a friend. Be sure to follow or subscribe to The Compound Growth Podcast so you don't miss what's next. Compound Growth with Wheeler and Collin sponsored by KoFi Advisors. Reach out today. Yay!