Compound Growth

Episode 13- Keep It Simple (and Scam-Free)

• Compound Growth • Season 1 • Episode 13

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In this episode of Compound Growth, Colin and Wheeler dive into the emotional and financial toll of fraud, unpacking real-life stories from their personal lives and the people around them. From a $2,000 church gift card scam to a fake car dealership scheme, the co-hosts highlight how even the financially savvy can fall victim to increasingly sophisticated phishing attempts. The lesson? Simplicity and skepticism are powerful tools in today’s digital landscape.

As the conversation evolves, Colin and Wheeler explore the broader implications of financial decision-making—why simplifying isn’t always simple, and how adding convenience can paradoxically add complexity. They examine how we justify our spending habits, where our “want monsters” come from, and how personal values shape our financial priorities. From lawn care dilemmas to luxury watches, no topic is too mundane when viewed through the lens of intentional living.

Ultimately, this episode is about more than fraud or finances—it’s about learning to know yourself, understanding the mental baggage you carry, and being unapologetic in your choices. Whether it's prioritizing time with your kids, traveling the world, or buying the Lego set you never got as a child, the takeaway is clear: simple choices, rooted in self-awareness, compound into a meaningful life.

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Credits:
Created By: Wheeler Crowley and Colin Walker
Production Assistance: Tori Rothwell
Editing and Post-Production: Steven Sims

I have a friend.And she's a member of the Catholic Church down in Massachusetts somewhere, all right?Okay.And she is very involved in the church, she does a lot of volunteering,And the church, I'm just setting the stage for you, the church is, it's part of, like it's almost like in a regional situation where they have like a pastor, minister, r- father- Priest.Father, that's what it is.Yeah, priest.Yeah.Father, priest, whatever.Um, and they have like a father-in-training, right, that's like at, at Boston College, right?Sure.So, th- this one guy essentially that he drives around to all the different churches in the region and they have to, like schedule the church times, so he e- accommodates his ability to travel from church in this town to church in that town.A floating priest- Yeah.if you will.Because the, you know, the churches are less attended now than they used to be.Right.And they don't have as many people, they don't have as much of a congregation that, so they don't have as much of a need for their own standalone priest.Okay.Okay.He is, uh, from I think Zimbabwe, I'm fairly certain, right?And his English is, it's pretty good, it's not great, right?Um, it's definitely an ESL situation and he has immigrated to this country, I don't know, somewhat recently.Do you go to this church?I do not go to this church.Okay.So, so I'm just setting the stage here so you understand all the components.So we were texting with our friend and she was complaining because her priest asked her to get all of these like gift cards for everybody who was volunteering, like there's this big, um, I don't know, bar- barbecue or event or something- Yeah.and he's like, For everybody who's volunteering, I just want to get like a $100 gift card or something as a thank you.Right?And she's like, Well, can't we just, like just buy these online?And h- he's like, No, I want, you know, I want you to go to the store.It's easier for us to track and reimburse and everything.And she's like, Okay.So she goes to the store and she buys all these gift cards, right?And she's gonna get reimbursed for buying these gift cards and, um, in the meantime, like she's communicating with her mom who's also very involved in the church and just letting her know that she's doing all these things, right?And so she buys these gift cards and she's like, All right, I got the gift cards.And her priest says, Okay, can you just take a picture of these gift cards so we make sure we track everything very easy for reimbursement?Oh, no.She's like, Yeah, okay.I can, I can do that.Oh, no.Can you scratch the barcode off?So, so she takes a picture of these gift cards and meanwhile her, you know, her mom is connecting with the priest and saying, So, you know, she's got all these gift cards, and the priest was like, What?What are you talking about?I didn't ask her to do any of this.Oh, no.So she bought $2,000 worth of gift cards and took pictures and sent them to the Gmail address that had the name of her priest- Uh-in the email or whatever.And so because he's-you know, from Zimbabwe and he doesn't have a lot of technological, uh- Prowess.prowess and English is not his first language or whatever, she was kind of like writing all this stuff off, but yeah, she got scammed out of $2,000.On the church's dollar- Well, no, because the church is not reimbursing her because she- Oh, right.used the, she, they basically, the, the fraud, like whoever was in, on the other side, coerced her under the guise of a priest to go and buy $2,000 worth of like Target and AMEX gift cards and stuff.Holy crap.It's amazing.Literally.And it'sYeah.HolyHoly, literally holy.Yeah.But it's just so easy these days.It's gonna get worse and worse.This is, this is a younger woman, she's like 43, 44 years old, right?Yeah.So she's absolutely aware of fraud, like she's looking for it regularly anyways, and yet this came at her in such a way in which she didn't question it, or at least didn't question it enough.And at the same time, she told her husband about it, he didn't really question it, her mom didn't really question it.We got texts about it, we didn't question it, but we didn't have like the complete story.The moment you take a photo- Well, yeah, exactly.of the gift card, that's the issue.But I'm not sure I knew that before this story, honestly.I was asked, this was like, um, actually right when we were starting Ko-fi, th- like, you know- Mm-hmm.as an independent.Um, someone got ahold of my personal email and was trying to phish me for Xbox gift cards- Okay.and they were coming off as like my manager for something and they were like, You need Xbox gift cards.I obviously knew immediately it was a scam- Mm-hmm.and I just started to play into it because I thought it would be fun.So I started to be like, Well, there's no FB- Xbox gift cards.Do you want a PlayStation gift card instead?And I was like, Well, what's your PlayStation username?And I just like kept going through all these photos or all these questions and then they just ended up giving up and they actually ended up blocking me.Yeah.Because I just kept texting them asking how I can get the gift cards to them and all these different gift card options and then- Yeah.they just gave up on me, I was just annoying them.But I heard this scan the other day that was actually, uh, someone got scammed, not on TikTok, but they were talking about it on TikTok, where, um, I guess a husband got a phone call from their wife's number- Mm-hmm.where their wife's name came up on their phone.So like Jane Smith comes up on your phone and it's a guy on the other line saying that he kidnapped-the wife.Oh, my gosh.And that he was at their house, he had their address, all this stuff, and she needed to send a wire to do that.So, this person hung up and called the cops and sent them to the house- Yeah.where they live.And the wife was just, like, sitting there like,they were just like, Well, we just got a call about an abduction.Are you okay?Blah, blah, blah.Then he called his wife's number and she answered right away, that wasn't the wife's phone that they were calling on, but they were somehow able to mask the call- Mm-hmm.so it looked like the caller ID of his wife.Is that spoof?Is that a spoof situation where they like- I don't know.they can get your SIM card?And if- Yeah.I don't-yeah, maybe?I haven't heard of this, but th- I wonder if that's what it was.I think, you know, I feel like if we really kinda like put our ear to the ground and like became familiar with all of these fraud attacks is- Yeah.we could literally like every week tell a new story.About a fraud?About fraud.And it's gonna get so, so, so much worse.Like you can't evenWe had an advisor that we used to work with, Dave.He would get, like, people calling him or whatever, and he would, like, mess with them, right?Like you did with the Xbox situation.Right.But now, like, you're not even supposed to answer the phone because then they can just take your voice, right?And grab it.They can capture your voice and capture, like, all your little tones and- They could capture it from our podcast.Uh-oh.Stop the record- no, I'm just joking.Oh, no, that's actually a really good point.Yeah.So I guess my first thought is, what would you do if you got that call and they said, Kaylee's been kidnapped"?Like, you- what's your first fact-checking thing that you do?My first fact-check would be a text message.Okay.That's a good one.My first fact-check would be a text message or, no, I would just go on cause I have her location.Exactly.So I would check the location first.Yeah.And then I would continue to ask questions.I feel as if whenever there's some sort of spam situation- Yeah.or phishing, you can usually navigate it asking a bunch of questions.Yeah.Um, I got scammed when I was young out of purchasing a car.Did I ever tell you this story?No.My wire fraud situation.Uh-oh.Yeah.It was really bad.Um, so long story short, I really needed a new car when I was in my early 20s.So I was buying a used car, it's all I could afford at the time.It was online, it was a great price, so I called the dealership.Yep.And I said, Hey, you know, I'm interested in this car.The guy's like, Oh, you know, it's a great car, great condition, blah, blah, blah.You know, he told me about the history of it, it seemed legit.And I was like, Okay.That sounds good.Well, what about shipping it?Because it was like in Texas and I was in Buffalo.And they were like, Well, you can get a hold of the shipping company.Here's the shipping company we use.Gave me the number for the shipping company, and I called the shipping company, they gave me a quote, it sounded legit, and, um, I sent a wire for the car.And the moment I sent the wire for the car, the shipping company ceased to exist and the car dealership ceased to exist.Oh, my gosh.It was a group of people that set up a fake dealership- Yeah.with a fake shipping company.And when I called the shipping company, it was like the same group of people in a room and they were end- they ended up being able to, like, track down and, like, get me, like, a decent amount of my money back.But, you know, I still lost like a couple thousand bucks, which when you're 23 years old is a very significant amount of money.Yeah.And, you know, I had no idea that that could happen at the time because I was so young and- Yeah.I didn't know how life and stuff like that worked.That'sIt's so scary.It is.You know what's, what's tricky for me, going back to the kidnapping situation- Mm-hmm.is that I have historically in my relationship downplayed things.Like one time, I was at a training thing in St.Louis when I was at Wells Fargo back in the day.Their headquarters was there and they would bring, you know, the new advisors out for like a couple of days of training.Yeah.Which is like all the training you get.Which is like 2 days 48-hour- And most of it's dinner and drinks.Yeah.Yeah, yeah.Very intensive andYeah.Um, so I, I was out there for this training and Jess called me and she's like, Somebody's trying to break in right now.And I'm like, What do you mean?And she's like, Somebody is at the window trying to break in right now.And I was like, Are they really trying to break in?Are they- You sure they're not washing the windows?Yeah.Are they just outside your window right now?Right.She's like, No, they're trying to break in.I'm like, and itThey were.Oh, they were?It was legitimate?They really were and I was just downplaying it and it was, that wasI feel so horrible and it's happened a couple of times where I just, I, like, downplayed things.So now, if I get a kidnapping call, I feel like my first instinct is gonna be like, I gotta take this seriously.Like, I have to learn from my previous mistakes.Well, now if you get a kidnapping call, you'll know to at least check the location.Yeah.Now what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna ask for proof of life.Please cut off her ring finger.Yes, mail it to me.Don't pay for the, for the expedited shipping.It's too expensive.Standard mail's fine.Take your time.Oh, God.All right.So this actually- Anyway.Anyway, money rules.Money rules.This actually plays into one of my, my, one of my money philosophies.I feel like- Saving money on shipping?Yes.No.Okay.I'm not frugal when it comes to shipping.I will- I need it now.I don't care.I need it immediately.Yeah.Um, I need proof of life right now.I'm curious to hear how this ties in.Welcome to the Compound Growth Podcast with Colin and Wheeler, where we talk all things growth.From financial growth to career growth, personal development to societal progress, we explore how each layer builds on the next, compounding over time to shape who we become.Each week, we break down complex ideas and emerging trends into clear, actionable insights, because growth isn't just about numbers, it's about understanding the world and our place in it.The information in this material is for general information only and is not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual.Investment advice offered through Integrated Partners doing business as COFI Advisors, LLC, a registered investment advisor.Integrated Partners does not provide legal, tax, mortgage advice or services.Please consult your legal tax advisor regarding your specific situation.Past performance is no guarantee of future results.All investing involves risk, including loss of principal.No strategy assures success or protects against loss.The economic forecasts set forth in this material may not develop as predicted and there can be no guarantee that the strategies promoted will be successful.YourMy situation with the kidnapping does not tie in.Okay, got it.Your car situation.I thought that's what you were alluding to.No, no, the car situation ties in.Got it.So I think frequently as a money philosophy.I don't wanna say rule anymore.I feel like rule is kind of like- Philosophy, yeah, yeah, yeah.Yeah, it's like- Guidelines.It's the KISS situat- keep it simple, stupid.Mm-hmm.Right?I feel like too f- it's too easy to complicate life.Mm.I'm really good at complicating my life.Mm-hmm.Right?And when we kind of try to strip things back and we say, you know, Why do we want this?What are we trying to achieve here?it can maybe lead you to a simpler path.And I, I have this philosophy and I really wanna follow it and I'm really, really bad at it.So this is an aspirational philosophy.It's an aspirational philosophy.Okay.I think when we c- when it comes to the work that we do with our clients- Yeah.we frequently can refer back to this.Like, you know, when somebody's coming in with the best new private equity deal or, you know, here, here's, like- Some fancy fund.Here's a triple levered, uh, guaranteed annuity-uh, or whatever it might be.Like- With an upside cap of 3%.Yeah.Yeah.I think in this industry, it's so easily, easy to make things like unnecessarily complex.Mm-hmm.Right?So from an investment standpoint, you can look at things and say, All right, well, hey, you know, traditionally stocks and bonds have already worked, you know.These, you can do pretty well with these 2 areas and maybe you can expand that and you have, like, a cash m- or t-bills or- Gold or whatever.like gold.Bitcoin.Or crypto perhaps, which is-well, you know- Yeah.maybe a little bit complex.Yes.Um, but I think that t- easily, more often than not, you can keep things simple and achieve your goals.And when we are trying to make things complex, we have to wonder why we're making them complex.Like, what are we trying to achieve that the complexity is going to give us that the simplicity is not?So keep it simple, stupid.Keep it simple, stupid.Okay.Which I can't say to clients because they don't like when I call them stupid.You could leave out the last S.Keep it simple.Uh, but I totally agree with you.Uh, y- you had to have seen the graph and most people, I feel, and maybe most people haven't seen this.But on the, um, X axis is simplicity.Mm-hmm.And on the Y axis is effectiveness.Okay, yeah.And it's just a straight line going in this direction or that direction, depending on which camera.Right.But, um, the whole point of it is to say that the more you strip away and the more simple something is, the more effective it becomes.And- Yeah.I, I can't remember.Maybe it was Einstein.I can't remember who said it, but, um, perfection isn't what you can add to improve, it's what you can take away- Mm-hmm.to simplify.And that makes a lot of sense to me.I think you did something that I'm envious of when speaking of the car situation.Mm-hmm.You're the first person I know-that's, like, bought a car online through the dealership without needing to go in- Oh, God.and they just dropped it off at your house, right?Yeah, they drove it to my house.So you didn't have to go in and deal with any of that?No.That's incredible.That was, that was a result of COVID, right?Mm-hmm.I think they put this in place because of COVID, and I hope they still have it.I actually don't know.But yeah, it was, it was a one, it was a point-to-point situation, right?So there was no third party.There was no car broker- Mm-hmm.There was no shipping person.Nothing.I went to the dealer online.I found the car I wanted, and I negotiated very little.Yeah.Right?Which is part of the deal, right?That simplicity.Sometimes we negotiate and we negotiate and we spend all this time, energy, and like, honestly, I loseI think I lost my hair negotiating.No, um, but I, yeah, it was, it was just buying through a dealer and the dealer said, We'll register the car for you in your state, and we'll drive it up to you.Oh, they registered it too?They registered it in New Hampshire, yeah.Wow.And they were a Massachusetts dealer.That's incredible.When we were looking for a car, to go to all the different dealerships- Yeah.and to test the cars andLike, the driving of the cars is, can be fun at times, but the hassle of going back and forth with all the different dealerships was horrible.Like, it is a terrible process.It is amazing that cars have been around for well over a hundred years at this point, and it's still such a horrible buying process.It's miserable.I mean, Tesla and some of the other ones like Lucid and Rivian- Yeah.that is something that they really have figured out.Yeah.Go online, here's your deposit, just pay the cash, and you're done.Uh, uh, I mean, say what you want about the companies, but at the end of the day, it's a very simple buying process that's a product.To go in and hassle and negotiate is a terrible- Well, that's the thing, is that when you- experience.When you don't go throughLike, I understand there are some people who they really wanna get the best deal, right?Mm-hmm.They're like, they like the negotiation pro- process perhaps, but they also just wanna make sure that they're not overpaying for the car.Mm-hmm.Right?And I think when you go in and sayI mean, it's so easy nowadays to know what the car is worth.Mm-hmm.Right?And I don't think you have to go back and forth as much, especially if you buy a Rivian or a Tesla or something like that.There's no, like, MSRP and then here's our price and then, like, whatever.It's just, Here's what the car costs.Yeah.That's what it should be.It, it's just crazy to me that the advertised price with cars is never actually the price that you will end up paying.Right.Unless it's one of those brands, but- Right.w- why wouldn't you just price it super competitively?I think the problem is the dealerships and the ownership of the dealerships and probably profitability margins because each person owns those dealerships.Right.So it's its own business each time.Yeah.And you're selling a franchise product- Yeah, that's true.which is tough.But you, at the same time, like, McDonald's is a franchise product.And it's all the same price.It costs the same, right?It's a great point.You know?Or I guess it does change some, like, uh, you know, there's a podcast I listen to a lot and they record in Chipotle.Uh, no, sorry.What?They record in New York City- It's a loud podcast.And they, they frequently buy Chipotle.Okay.And they're always complaining about how much Chipotle costs.Like, you know, their burrito bowl cost, like, $19 that day.And I'm likeAnd they're like, This is outrageous.I'm like, Well, it doesn't cost me $19 when I go get my burrito bowl.No, our burrito bowls are like $13.Yeah, exactly.So maybe it's just a reflection of where you right?Like, are you blaming the company for your choice to live in Manhattan, or are you- Or do you have city tax- Yeah.and state tax?Yeah, exactly.And then that company also has city and state tax- And they pay rent, yeah, yeah.and they pay rent on top of it.Yeah, I get it.Yeah, yeah.So let's keep it simple.It's, to me, probably an additional leaf of that is you're probably paying more for convenience in general.I do, but I also think that sometimes that's com- We talked about this, complex versus simplex.Mm-hmm.Right?So, at some point, I decided that I wanted more time back on the weekends to spend with my daughter.Mm-hmm.Right?So I said, I'm going to value that time at X, I'm gonna pay somebody to do the lawn maintenance for me at that value.Right?And therefore, I can, you know, appreciate this extra time back, right?And that you can look at that and say, I'm simplifying my life by not worrying about the lawn, right?But what you are actually doing is adding a complexity to your life, because now there's a new relationship in your life that wasn't there before.There's new problems that that relationship brings in.They're not doing the lawn to my standard.My lawn looks like crap now and it's not because we're, you know, in a heatwave or something.It's just they don't do as good a job.Right?So, and then, like, there's managing them coming or not coming sometimes.Like, "Hey, you- you literally just, like, mowed my lawn to death last week.It's- there's like a millimeter of grass there.Let's skip this week."Right?Hm.And then I have to make that choice for them and communicate with them.And then they- when they come, they- they have to, like, move the trampoline around or whatever.And it's just, there's- there's a layer of complexity that you could at- at first say, "I'm simplifying," and really you're complicating.Because you're adding another component.You're adding components.What I will say is I wasWell, 1, your yard doesn't look like crap.It's- It looks absolutely horrible.It's way below standard.I haven't seen it in the last few weeks.But anyway, last time I was there, it looked great.Mm-hmm.Um, with that being said, I am very tight on my purse strings when it comes to paying for stuff in general, but you convinced me to get a yard service.And, here you are complaining about it.I know.But with that being said, um, probably one of the best things that I ever did for myself, and it's not just about, you know, well, the convenience of the time, but it's also, like, I hated that process.Mm-hmm.You know, I hated going out in my yard and mowing it when it was 92 degrees outside and having to deal with all that stuff.Um, the relationship that we have is very great and it's super nice.Like, they skipped this week because they said it was long and they shot me a note and was just like, "Hey, your yard, you know, it's really hot outside."Yeah."It hasn't- it's not gonna grow that much.We're gonna skip this week."And then, when it's done, it's always the same price, they do a great job, and then they just send me an Apple Pay request for 40 bucks and then it's just done.So for me- Mm-hmm.that's been a great time out, but there have been certain relationships that we've added into our life that have, I'll say, been a time suck, and that sucks when you pay for something and it's an added complexity.Like- Yeah.we- we redid our bathroom and now we have this, like, tiled shower and whatnot and it's great.Um, but now we have to, like, squeegee the tile and, like, do all this stuff and clean the grout and, you know, make sure, like, the glass is clean and it's, you know, little things just add.Yeah.I remember when my in-laws redid their, uh, their shower, 15 years ago now.And we would come home and visit and they would say, "Okay, you need to squeegee the glass door after you shower," and I was like, "Why?"I do it every day."I have to, IWhy?Like, I have to do this why?So there's no streaks on the gla-" Who's looking- I look.at these streaks?You look.I look.I can't stand it.There's some of these stuff- The water droplets, like, going down.But I get that, and that's- that's kind of like the way you feel about those water droplets is the way I feel about the lawn, and I actually enjoyed doing the lawn, right?Mm-hmm.Like, I took something, maybe some icky guy out of my life, and I paid somebody to do that, and now it's a worse version.So are you gonna take it over?I'm going to take out- take over that part.I think that there's some stuff I really- Take over that part meaning theThe lawn.The lawn.Yeah.Okay.But I'm not gonna take over, as I hate gardening, right?I hate it too.I need to go out and weed, and, um- You're not allowed to weed anymore.No.What I mean is I need to have Kaylee go out and weed.'Cause I can't be around anything that might be poison ivy.No more weeding for you.Yeah.But I do feel like, uh, yeah.I- I think sometimes maybe it's the right situation.Maybe you have the right reason you're trying to simplify and then maybe it adds a complexity and then you just have to read- you know, recognize that it is what it is, right?Mm-hmm.That's actually another of my money philosophies is just call a spade a spade, right?Like, if you are really into cars or you're really into clothes or you're really into dining out once a week or whatever it might be, instead of excusing whatever that is, just own it and say it is whatever, a small luxury.There's some really nice French word for this.It's like le petite luxury or something.I can't remember the name of it.I don't know.Whatever that term is.Yeah.Um, but I- I do think that it's okay for us to have these things that other people might disagree with, but are really important to you.Right?Like, so for example, we might sit around the table here at Ko-fi.Mm-hmm.And some people at the table might be talking about whatever below deck TV show or, you know, the- the true lives of Mormon housewives or whatever it might be.My 600 Pound Sisters.Yeah.Oh my God.Is that a show too?That is a show.I don't watch it, but- Okay.some people here do.And so I would look at these and I would say- Tori laughs.Sorry.that isWell, we can just look at Tori's watching history- Yeah, if someone watches it.and I'll judge it for her.We don't watch that.Dude, you- you cannot accuse Tori of watching that.Sorry.Sorry.It's not Tori.The point is, I can sit here and I can say, "That is junk TV."Right?Mm-hmm.Like, "That is rotting your brain.There's no reason that you should watch that except for maybe you just need to turn off," right?And if they say, "Yeah, obviously that's what it is," that's what it is.But if they say, "No, no, no-"I'm learning so much about the human condition by watching my 600-pound sister, or whatever it might be.Am I getting that title right?I don't know.I, I've never watched it.It's not even a real show.So I'mYeah.If they, if they're like excusing itI just want likeSometimes we have to be able to say, "I know this was a"Like, yes, I was doom-scrolling last night or whatever, you know?WeSo yesterday, Ozzy Osbourne died.Oh.Yeah, which is a bummer.Um, and- RIP.Big car guy.Yeah.I did not know he was a big car guy.Yeah.He was aYeah, I won't get into it, but anyway.Okay.Yeah.Set car collection.You w- you would know that he's a big car guy.I do.But Ozzy Osbourne died, and it wasGod, it was like 2 weeks after this big tribute show in Birmingham.Didn't he have a stroke like 15 years ago?Well, he's, he's had a lot ofHe did a lot of drugs.Yeah.And he has had a lot of health issues.He died at 76, which honestly, looking back at Ozzy Osbourne, like when the Osbournes were on MTV, he looked like he was gonna die, and that was like 20 years ago.So- didn't realize he was in his 50s there in that, in that show.Yeah, like he looked way older.I literally thought he was in his 70s in that show.I did not know that.Right.Yeah, so he just died, 76.Okay.And this is an RIP situ- Like, weYou know, if you're into heavy metal or just rock and roll in general- You know who he is.you know who he is, and he was very influential.Like heI think if I were to sit there and listen to Ozzy Osbourne for 2 hours, I don't know if I could do that, honestly.Mm-hmm.But I love some of his songs, and more importantly, I love how h- he really tried to help people in that industry.Like he was a leader, he was a mentor, he was a father in that situation.Um, so we were on YouTube last night watching- Doomscrolling.Well, I wasn't doomscrolling yet, but- Okay.This is the prequel.But we were watching the videos ofWe were watching like tribute videos or old performances or old interviews, and then I was talking into the microphone 'cause I'm lazy and I can't just like type into the control.And I was ty- I was speaking into my microphone, and it wouldI tend to mumble or stutter, and it tends to mishear what I say.And then it would just like bring up random dog, like a dog in a pool video or something.So we're like, "Oh, that's cute."Wait."Let's watch that."You were Googling Ozzy Osbourne, and this led you to dogs andDogs.No, actually what it was, I was trying to show a picture of you bald on The Compound Growth Podcast.Oh.And I, I said Compound- The truth comes out.This is after the Ozzy Osbourne thing.Okay.So I said- It was a long night last night, wasn't it?It was a really long day, actually.Okay.Um, butSo I said Compound Growth Podcast, except for whatever came out of my mouth was not those words.And it brought up videos of dogs in pools or something.And of course, the ladies were like, "Oh, let's watch these cute videos."Yeah, and then they just suddenly watch them.And then it's like, "Oh, let's watch this Tom and Jerry steak"You ever see Tom and Jerry, the cartoon?Yes.Yeah, yeah, yeah.So there's like a giant steak.So then we're like watching this guy grilling a 50-pound steak.And I'm likeI was like, "Oh, I get it.I see how this works."You go into YouTube and you disappear for 2 hours.Correct.Right?Okay.And you emergeI, I had a window into your soul.sometimes a lesser person.Depending on the videos.Yes.Yeah.But anyways, I thinkThe point is, when you do these activities, you just wanna basically say, "I recognize that this is not necessarily like something I should try to"If somebody were judging me for this, I should just likefirst of all, that's their judgment, and second of all- Not yours.Yeah.I don't need to explain this,When youUh, you've said this to your, to us about your clients in the past.Like, if my clients are meeting all their goals, I don't need them to excuse the 2week trip to Italy that they want to take.Right.Right?Yeah.I think it's just really important that we don't feel the need to justify our spending.But I've had this sense of guilt attached to it, right?And I've been searching for justification, and I haven't been able to find it.Unpacking that a little bit.So do you find thatWell, and, and here's what I'll say too, as well, is people's money habits tend to stick with them.Mm-hmm.Regardless, and I've found at least, whether or not they're making $10,000 or five million dollars a year.Yeah.And something that I've picked up on as well, and I'm curious to hear your take on this and I wanna talk about the personal situation you just brought up.But we've had clients go from making $40,000, $50,000 a year up to several million dollars a year.Yeah.And their way that they treat money doesn't typically change, is what I've found.And if someone's extremely frugal when they're making $40,000, $50,000 a year, they're gonna be extremely frugal making a couple of million dollars a year, or if they have tens of millions of dollars.Yeah.And to me, it's almost more of a, umIt's not so much a, a number thing, or it's not so much an income thing in terms of your net worth or your, what you're making.It's more about what's going on mentally, which it sounds like to me with you is like, do you feel guilty the more you make?Or is it like a guilt thing, like, just recently that's kinda come up?I think it'sIt is fairly recent.Mm-hmm.And I think that my spending behavior actually hasn't really changed.Like, I don't spend ridiculous amounts of money because I've neverI was never able to growing up, right?Sure.But my relation to, or my relationship to just, like, just wanting something and, like, you know, trying to get to that thing, that's kinda changed, right?I think that, um, if I were all along able to spend money and not worry about, like, the consequences of that spending or whether I should or should not be able to spend money, I think that I would have a different relationship to it now.If I think back to the times in my life where I wanted something and I couldn't afford it and now I can afford it, it's like it d- the want hasn't changed, I guess.Right?The want hasn't changed, but the accessibility to what you want has changed.Right.Yeah.So, do you know Bill Perkins?UhIt's like Die With 0, I think is, like, his book or Die on Empty.You mentioned this book, yeah.Yeah.Yeah.So I was listening to a podcast that he was on the other day.Um, very, very interesting guy.He talks about maximizing life experiences.But, um, something that he talks about is, you know, this is a guy that's worth several hundred million dollars and exorbitantly wealthy.And he was talking about when he was coming up, he didn't have that much money.Mm-hmm.Um, but there was a lot of things he wanted to do with his life, so he got into a position where he was making an exorbitant amount of money in his early 20s 'cause he was, like, one of the highest commodities traders on Wall Street.Okay.So, I don't know how much he was making, but it was 1000000.And then he started to do all these different experiences that changed up his life and whatnot.But he was talking about his daughter and he was basically saying, like, "What made me who I am today was the fact that growing up I didn't have money."Mm-hmm."And the fact that I had to struggle and I had to grind to get to where I was."So, to, like, rob that of my daughter to a certain extent," and I'm curious to get your take on this too because you're a parent.Yeah.He was just like, "That gave me so much charisma, it gave me so much drive, it gave me perseverance."And he was just like, "If I make life easy, then I strip that away."And I, I see where you're coming from with this because if you have, I'll say, a- this, um, backstory of needing to, like, work really hard and grind it out and, you know, growing up with not as much, but now, you know, you're in a position where you can afford the things that you want, it's almost like a part of your identity that's like maybe you don't have as much anymore because that's what you grew up with.Yeah.Yeah, I wonder how much of your identity is really tied intoSo I guess, pushing back on that point, because I've heard it before.Mm-hmm.Right?I've heard people, this debate about how they should handle their improved life circumstances financially with their children, right?Mm-hmm.And I've heard people talk about college and they say, you know, "It's really important thatI, you know, I took out student loans so my, you know, my kids shouldn't have to take out student loans," right?Or whatever it might be.Um, I think their focus is on the money.It should be on the struggle.And what's really important, what I have a really hard time with, is letting children struggle.Mm-hmm.Right?Like, letting them have a problem and not know how to figure it out and, and have to figure out the solution.Not all problems have to be financial.Of course.Right?I feel like money in general, um, when you don't have it, is an unnecessary stress.Right?And money, money can be stressful when you do have it.Like, money is unnecessarily stressful.Like, I really, really, really dislike the stress that's associated with money.I think it's really important to teach that aUh, it's not teach, but I guess to put people in positions where they learn that they can do things on their own, they can overcome the obstacles.This is one of the, the, the knocks against universal basic income.Right?Like, if you give everybody a paycheck, then they don't have to fight to make their money or whatever.I think it's just changing what we value and if you want toLike, I wanna runI just recently decided that I want to run another 5K.Nice.Right?Now, when I ran my last 5K, it was a Father's Day 5K, like 3 or 4 years ago and I got a time I didn't think I was capable of.I did, like, in 22 and a half minutes or whatever- That's awesome.which, for me, I've, likeI've always done 24 as my h- my tops, right?Because I'm not a runner.I'm notI'm not that guy.Right?Yeah.Peloton tells us all that we're athletes.I've never really felt that way.There's different levels to athletes.There's different levels.Exactly.I'm a- I'm JV athlete.Yeah.I am not a spectacular athlete.Yeah.Uh, but I was like, you know, I- I- I got this time a few years ago and I said, "I'll never do that again."And this weekend, I was like, "Well, that was mean.Why did I do that to myself?"Like, maybe I could achieve that time again.And now I have a new goal and I can work to that goal and I can try to overcome and rise to that occasion.Has literally nothing to do with money, right?And I think anything that creates unnecessary struggle in your life isIt's hard to argue for that existence.If you're talking about, food scarcity, for example, or wealth inequality or not being able to afford to buy a home, right?These are unnecessary struggles.If you're talking about finding your place in life, your value or just, you know, being able to run that 5K or make that movie or whatever it is, take apart an engine and put it back together again, whatever that goal might be, I think those are really awesome things to work towards.They don't have to have any financial ties to them and they can teach you a lot about life.I think, um, one of the saddest things in life is actually reaching your goals.It can be, yeah.Yeah.It can be because it's not that, like, a Don't H- uh, Meet Your Heroes kind of situation.But if you've tied your life so much to a goal, whether it's financial or something else- Sure.when you reach it, what's after?And, um, I think the purpose of having a goal isn't to reach the goal, it's to always be having goals.Mm-hmm.Uh, to me at least, that's what gives me some form of happiness.Um, but, you know, I resonate with what you said before when, you know, you're, you know, having some issues with that because at the same time, like, when I'll say we started our business, like, I was just like, "Oh, one day, you know, we're gonna start-" Yeah.this business."And then, you know, once the business is started and it's going, you're like, "Oh," like, "I need to"Like, it's done.What am I thinking about now?Like, what's this next big goal?Yeah.And I always have to kind of readjust with that mentally.But something that my father-in-law says that, um, might be kind of dismissive at times but it actually has helped me the more I think about it- Okay.which is, uh, "No one cares more than you do."Mm-hmm.And I think to myself, "Well, man, like, I really care about this.This is a goal," or, "How are people gonna think about this," or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.Like, I have to take a step back and think, like, "This is all in my head."Mm-hmm.Like this isn't something society is putting on me with pressure.This isn't, like, something Haley's telling me to do.This is literally just, like, my own personal struggle and I just need to adjust because, um, like, it's- it's your control.Yeah.It's actuallyI think that's great advice and it's- it's so relevant to s- you know, the majority of what we do to beat ourselves up, our- our internal monologue.It's endless.Yeah.And it's, it is frequently all internal, you know.I think that what we don't need is to go, you know, put ourselves out there on social media and get torn apart, right?Because, like, you're- we're already doing it to ourselves.Turn the comment section off, Dory.Yes, no comments allowed.No comments allowed.I heard this line, um, in a, uh, umWhy can't I think?Sabrina Carpenter.So, Sabrina Carpenter- Oh, love her.Yeah.Very clever.Yeah.Like, um, lyricist.And she was saying that, um, hot guys don't need to lie to women, the women lie to themselves.Mm-hmm.And I thought that was so clever because I frequently seeIt doesn't need to be hot guys.The- that was just a lyric I'm pretty sure.That might be the lyric.I'm notNow I might have just put the hot guys in there.What does that say about me?Yeah.No.Yeah.Anyways, um, the point is that I see people in bad relationships and, yeah, sometimes they'rethere's an air of inauthenticity coming from one half.But the, the lies that people tell themselves to make excuses for that other person are always the w- the bigger evil, right?The worser risk.We talk about this, uh, Kayley and I sometimes, we have like a few friends who you watch from afar and you're like, What is this person thinking?Yeah.And when they make their decisions or go about their life or invest their money or pick a job.Yeah.Or pick a spouse or go on a trip, like whatever it might be, or buy a car.Like you look at some people and your own personal opinion differs from theirs.And sometimes you see people in this rough cycle and you think to yourself, Man, if I could be in that person's shoes for like a week-I could like fix all of this.Right.Yeah, yeah.And just like put them down this different path.But what that says is it's not environmental.Yeah.It is mental.Yeah.And if that is the case, and if you could plug yourself into someone else's life and change the habits and change the outcome, you know, then you could adjust yourself mentally if that is the case.I think that's the whole ball game, honestly.More often than not it's just like being able to do the work on yourself, or maybe we, we shouldn't even call it work, right?Just being able to go through that process- Make a decision.Yeah.yeah, on your own.Tori, how, how bad did I butcher those lyrics?Yeah, not, not too close but like maybe getting to the point.It is, you don't have to lie to girls, if they like you, they'll just lie to themselves.Okay.All right.WellClose enough.Nothing about men in there.Nothing about men.You added hot guys.I added hot guys.I, you know- Edit that out.That might've been in the interview though, so it, uh, we'll check with Ron Stone- We're definitely keeping that.now to see if that was the article.That's, uh, man, this is like, this, uh, was not meant to be like a, a therapy session today, but I feel like it's becomingBut I do, I do have to say though, while it's not a MONEY rule, it is like mental guidelines that talk about those types of things.Yeah.Like you have the keep i- keep it simple stupid.Yep.You have the, you know, eliminating, I'll say, um, or what was it?The like increasing the, the time so to speak, the umWell I think, yeah, that's, that's the, keep it simple stupid is that.Yeah.It's, it's the unnecessary complexity versus complex versus simple.Unnecessary complexity, that's what it was.Yeah.Yeah.And then now you're talking about, I mean now we're talking about hot guys.Now we're talking about hot guys.All right, so here's the thing.I think that what we've realized through this conversation is that it's all a head game.There's all the- Mm-hmm.I love that term head trash, right?Because there's just so much that gets stored up in there and like you start young and everybody is uh, is obsessed with themselves when they first start, right?They're, they don't, they don't care about other people because they're like 3 years old and they just know what they want and need and, and they, they do that, right?Yeah.And then they start thinking about what everybody else thinks about them, right?Mm-hmm.And primarily they think about what their mom or dad or, or caretaker thinks of them, right?And that's when they learn to start worrying about what other people think of them and that creates good things and bad things, right?Because it's, it's really, you need, I think, to foster that like caring ability to like just, I need to make sure that I'm doing right by other people.But you can even take that too far and you can start to worry about what they think about you or whatever.I feel like that's, again, the same thing.Simplicity entering complexity.Everything's simple when you're just taking care of yourself or you're worried about just what you need.Once you start opening that up to worrying about what other people need and what they think of you and what the world thinks of you and what Tori thinks about me saying that lyric wrong or whatever it might be.Um, yeah, I think it's just we, we make things so complex and if we could just strip it all down, we might be happier people.When you're on an airplane, and hopefully this never happens to anybody listening, but when the oxygen masks drop you have to put your own on first.Yeah.Have you done that?Has that ever happened to you?No.Okay.Has that happened to you?No.Okay.But I know what to do.I'm flying tomorrow so hopefully it doesn't.Where's wood?I mean, to knock on.There's no wood in here.All right.Uh, but I guess the purpose is, is like before you worry about what other people think, you have to- Yes.figure it out yourself.Yeah.And what your own priorities are, and I think this is kind of the, the crux of what we're talking about here.Yeah.Is prioritize what it is that you truly want and put that first.Yeah.And, um, ultimately you can take care of the opinions of other people, you know, later on in life.Yeah.If you even want to come back to it.But I think knowing your priorities and sticking to those are really important.I think it's so hard to do because you have to take time to understand yourself, right?And this, you know, this, this past 4 days, 4 or 5 days, um, we've had people staying with us.Great friends, fam- basically just uh, an extension of our family, right?Mm-hmm.Um, but it's 2 more adults and 2 kids in our home and in every moment of our lives, right?That's a lot.It's a lot.And I think it's a lot for everybody.Like the, the kids hit a point last night where they were just like melting down.They were, they were like, they were falling apart over nothing and they couldn't explain why they were falling apart.And they- They just needed space.They just needed space.And it's really hard to find that spaceAnd if you spend your entire life surrounded by other people or just go, go, go, go, go and y- you can't take this, th- the space that you need to settle down and, and figure things out.I was able to on, I think it was Monday, I worked in a run, just like, it took 30 minutes, I went for a run and I was able to just be by myself for that period of time and that helped.Um, but it's, I think the exhaustion of being surrounded by people and worrying about people and worrying about what they think about you can be a lot.And I'm not saying that you should just be selfish, but I think it's important to think about yourself and take care of yourself, right?And it doesn't mean that has to come at the expense of other people.So maybe theOh, were we calling it money, money guidelines now?I think I called it money philosophies.Philosophies.I like, it sounds nice.It does.Money philosophies.You s- you sound fancy when you say it.Thank you.You actually, you look fancy when you say it too.Thank you.Um, money philosophies.Perhaps the money philosophy is, is to know your priorities and stick to them.Yeah.Well, and understand your priorities.I think that's really hard for people, like the prioritazation- prioritization exercise.We have a client, he, um, he just moved in with his girlfriend and they're not like in their 20s, they're like in their 40s.Mm-hmm.You know, so this is a later life combination and now they have to figure out how to navigate finances together.And, you know, they don't have the same financial priorities, right?Mm-hmm.They want to buy a house together but they also both really en- enjoy travel.Um, they don't like working, so that's, you know, a, a constant struggle for them as well.So they obviously, they would like to retire early because they don't like working.Mm-hmm.They want to buy a house and they want to travel all around the world, and those are 3 really expensive things.Mm-hmm.And they can't do all 3 right now.They just can't.They have to prioritize.And also, oh, they need a new car, right?Just add it, add it to the list.Add it to the list.Yeah.Um, or do they want a new car?Do they need a new car?Um- Need is a very strong word.Need is rarely the case, honestly.I, I need a lot of things but I don't really, I just want them.Right, it's a strong want.Um, it's, we have aHave you ever heard the term, your want monster?No.No?This might be something that I read, like a childhood book to Michaela one time and I was like, this is- You told me about the Sunday scaries and now Kayla and I talk about it every Sunday.It's true.It's a real thing.It is a real thing.I feel like Tori brings them in on Monday mornings though.So I think the, the want monster is, the concept is that, like, there's this little part of you that really wants something, and when you're a kid, it, that can feel like a big, big part of you.It just, like, takes over and it's like your monster, right?And you have- For me it was a Lego street sweeper.A Lego what?A Lego street sweeper set.I wanted that more than anything else in the entire world when I was growing up.How big was this street sweeper?Very small.What'd it sw- So it was only sweeping Lego streets?It didn't, it didn'tNo, it didn't, it was, it was literally just a Lego set of a street sweeper.It had no function.It was just part of, like, the city?Correct.The city playset?I wanted it so bad growing up.Never got it.Never got it?No.And h- how do you feel about that, Colin?I got over it.Yeah, exactly.It's buried deep- Yeah.inside me.Oh, God.We're g- we're gonna go to your house someday and there's gonna be a street, street sweeper in there.Just a real street sweeper-in the driveway.With a Zamboni.Yeah.Um, anyways.Yeah.I think when you have that want monster, um, it's, it's really good to learn how to, like, feed it a little bit, but also recognize f- it for what it is and, and kind of, like, tame it, right?Mm-hmm.But in a situation like the clients I was talking about when they have 4 really big, important things to them, it's gonna be so difficult to prioritize because they are so key to what they really want in life.Right.And then it's just like, if you have to, if you're forced into that prioritization exercise, they might say, Well, you know, maybe we could live in this condo that we're in a little bit longer, right?Because then we can travel to Israel or whatever they wanna do, right?Uh, And maybe I don't need a new car right now.car right now.I could wait a couple of years and that allows me to travel back home to my, see my family in Massachusetts, orright?So I think like you have to really take time to understand your priorita- your priorities and then you can really take that step further and say, Well, what does that tell you about you?Well, right.Is all this spending and all these different goals trying to cover up something that's really bothering you?Right.You know.Um, yeah, that's interesting.Uh, John Mayer is a huge avid watch collector.Mm-hmm.And one of the biggest, I don't know how much he has in watches, but it's like tens of millions of dollars.It's a insane collection.Anyway, he said something the other day that I thought was really interesting.And by the other day I mean a year ago.And i- he was talking about how everybody wants to be wealthy and famous in the year in which they originally imagined it.Hmm.Okay.And, um, like for me, as I go back, like that would be probably early 90s, like when I was really young and like you think about like the cars that you had imagined at the time or- Mm-hmm.probably early nineties, like when I was really young and like you think about like the cars that you had imagined at the time or like the house that you had imagined at the time and kind of all of that stuff. And he was basically saying like a lot of your goals come from your childhood's ability to have imagination. and like a lot of things kind of stem from that and um for me like growing up like um, you know, we never got to go to europe or anything like that, you know, we had other vacations and we were very fortunate so for me like growing up I was always like oh I would really love to go to europe one day and check it out and do thoselike the house that you had imagined at the time and kind of all of that stuff.And he was basically saying like a lot of your goals come from your childhood's ability to have imagination.And like a lot of things kinda stem from that and, um, for me like growing up like, um, you know, we never got to go to Europe or anything like that.You know, we had other vacations and we were very fortunate.So for me like growing up I was always like, Oh, I would really love to go to Europe one day and check it out and do those"- Mm-hmm.kinds of things.Or, I wonder what it would be like to have a sports car one day, or, I wonder what it would be like to, like, live near the beach, or something like that.And for me, I notice now like all my priorities as I get older often stem from my imagination when I was young.Yeah.Yeah, well, I've, it's, it all ties back to childhood.Yeah.Right?And I think maybe that's actually the money rule and the money philosophy is just like understanding yourself, right?Mm-hmm.And understanding how that plays out in your finances, um, because you're right.Like, it's, it'sI don't, I don't want to say that it's limited to your imagination at the time, but it's definitely connected to some part of your life when you're a kid, right?Yeah.Like it's, you know, let's, let's say that, umYeah.Let's say that you, you always dreamed of being a professional athlete or whatever, right?There's aI was hearing this story of this, this, um, this guy went to see his, um, his girlfriend's dad for the first time and the dad brought him in to have the talk, like, you know, How are youWhat are you intentions with my daughter?With my daughter.Yeah.You know?Yeah.And, uh, my friend gets brought into, um, to the study, right?Or like the cigar room or whatever it might be, but it was like a Yankees shrine and my bo- Uh-oh.My friend is a die-hard Boston Red Sox guy.So, but it's a Yankees shrine and amidst all of like the autographed baseballs and pictures and paraphernalia there's a picture of the dad that he's having a conversation with from a Yankees fantasy baseball camp that he went to when he was 52 years old.Whatever.And, you know, he's got the jersey and he's like right next to, you know, Roger Maris or whatever.Yeah.And like, and that's him living out a childhood fantasy, right?Yeah.Like he always wanted to be a baseball player and now he can afford to go to fan- like a fantasy Yankees camp or whatever.And you could sit there and say, Boy, that's a stupid spend of money, or like, It's so ridiculous that you- But to him it's everything.Yeah, exactly.Yeah.Like you don't necessarily need an entire room in your house dedicated to your favorite baseball team, but he really loves the Yankees so he wants to spend his money on that, and that's really important to him, and why do we get to say in that?Or why should we?And that's the thing.I mean, you can't blame someone for that because they're unapologetically into it.Yeah.Like, that's like his whole world.And then, like, if John Mayer's into watches, like, by all the power to you, you know?Like, be into watches.Or if you're into travel or fishing or skiing, like whatever it is just know your priorities and then stick to them and align yourself with that, because maybe that's where your happiness will fall.Yeah.Oh, I think being una- unapologetic is maybe something to strive for.Exactly.Yeah.And actually that's, that's what I did when I hired that lawn company, Colin.I was saying, I know my priorities.My priority is to be with my daughter on a Friday afternoon instead of mowing the lawn.And now my daughter doesn't want to hang out with me on Friday mornings.I think what I'll have to do is just not come to the office.She does, she still does now.I've got like a year or 2.Okay, fair enough.Yeah.Well, maybe the problem is, um, either you need a new lawn care service.I think I need your lawn care service.My lawn care service is great.I'll give you a referral.Yeah, please.And, um, I don't know if they come to Hampton, but anyway.So we'll talk.Um, either that or maybe you just need to get a great new tractor and be super pumped about it.I would really love to do the lawn again.That's the thing.Mm-hmm.I'm sorry, Colin.I'm gonna take from you.I ca- Yes.I go- I can't take from my daughter.Yes.I'm gonna take from- Start a lawn care service instead?Thanks for joining us for another episode of Compound Growth.We hope this conversation leaves you feeling more empowered to simplify your life, pass on better money habits, and focus on what truly brings you joy.As you work toward your financial goals, remember that part of the reward is creating a smoother path for the next generation.Keep evaluating what's worth your energy and let go of what's not so you can keep building a life that feels both intentional and fulfilling.Don't forget to like, subscribe, and share with a friend, and thanks for tuning in.Compound Growth with Wheeler and Collin sponsored by CoFi Advisors.Reach out today.Yay!