Jon Hord: Why Setting Three Specific Dad Goals Changes Everything About Intentional Fatherhood

Ever wonder how to set actual goals for your fatherhood instead of just hoping you'll figure it out? In this powerful episode, I sit down with Jon Hord, founder of the Engaged Father Project, who discovered that most dads have professional and financial goals but zero specific goals for being a father—and that changes everything.

Jon shares his incredible journey from fear-driven perfectionist to vulnerable, intentional father, including:
•Why his kids now talk about "new dad" versus "old dad" and how that feedback lights him up more than any achievement
•The morning apology that shows your children it's safe to be human in your house
•How a childhood belief about "doing things well" kept him small for decades until he transformed it into "do it with passion"

Plus, Jon reveals his game-changing approach to parenting teenagers—why he refuses to take their reactions personally and treats every day like uncharted territory because your 13-year-old has never been 13 before.

Whether you're struggling with teenage attitude changes or wondering how to be more than just the guy who pays the bills, this episode will challenge you to see that setting specific dad goals isn't just helpful—it's the difference between hoping you're doing okay and knowing you're building the relationship you actually want.

Ready to stop winging fatherhood and start being intentional about the dad you become? Let's explore how three simple goals can transform every interaction with your children!

Connect with Jon Hord:
Skool: https://www.skool.com/the-engaged-father-project-9143/about?ref=e2688786b0094b4283ebc3cc22ab6eab
Instagram: @TheEngagedFatherProject
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheEngagedFatherProject
TikTok: @TheEngagedFatherProject
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-hord
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheEngagedFatherProject
Website: https://TheEngagedFatherProject.com


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E043 of the Dad Hat Shenanigans Podcast: The Unfiltered Truth of Being a Dad

Want to be a guest on Dad Hat Shenanigans: The Unfiltered Truth of Being a Dad? Send D Brent Dowlen a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/dadhatshenaniganspodcast

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The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are solely those of the guests. They do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the host, any organizations, companies, or institutions mentioned, or corporate entities represented by the host.

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Transcript

Jon Hord: Why Setting Three Specific Dad Goals Changes Everything About Intentional Fatherhood

Brent Dowlen: [00:00:00] Coming up on this episode of Dad Hatchings podcast, 

Jon Hord: um, I, I, I work, I work hard, and I'm very intentional with what I do as a dad to, to be an incredible dad for my kids. I mean, I, I feel like it is the most important work that I can do while I have this time here on this planet. If, if I wanted to take it personally, yes, I could, I could easily have my feelings hurt.

Like, I don't deserve that. Where's this coming from? I just don't do it. And I just know like, Hey, she's got more stuff going on. Some stuff I'm aware of some stuff I'm probably not. And when I, when I show up with that kind of empathy and compassion and understanding, like those, those little flareups, they don't, they don't seem to last that long.

And then, uh, then we're like right back in the groove. I decided I don't want to live that way anymore. And I started. Changing things and one of the, one of the things that I do now is I just lean into being [00:01:00] really open and honest and knowing that like I don't have to be for everybody. Like today when wake up, when we woke up, like our kids have never been.

This, the age that they are today, they've never been that age before. And so we as parents have never parented a kid that is this age before. So it's like, it's always changing and evolving. So just kinda, you know, like take a breath. Like it's, it's okay, like we're gonna, we're gonna figure this out. But how it affected me, at least in one way, was that I.

I was afraid to fail for kind of most of my life because I believe that if you're going to do something, do it well. And so if I didn't believe that I could do it, well, I wouldn't do it. So I, I stayed small with the decisions that I made, and not just like life decisions, but even socially, right? Like if I was going to say something, I would [00:02:00] have this like inner dialogue where I would run it through and be like, you know.

Am I going to say this? Well, is there going to be a lot of value in this? How's it going to be received? And like, if it wasn't like ticking all the good boxes, I just wouldn't say it.

Brent Dowlen: Jon, every dad has that story that just lights them up, that just when they think about being a dad, they love to tell that story to their friends and everybody else. What is your favorite dad story? 

Jon Hord: Oh man. Well, my answer is a little bit different. It doesn't really point to one specific moment in time, but it actually points to something that I hear more often now, and that's when my kids talk about new dad.

And old dad. And, uh, that lights me up because it's feedback and it's proof from them that, you know, the work that I'm doing and the, and the changes that I'm trying to make within myself for the benefit of my kids and my family. It lets me know that it's [00:03:00] working. And when they say things like that, they often kind of.

Make jokes about like, old dad would've handled it this way, and the things that come out of their mouth after that, they're not kind. Um, but that's okay. Like I don't, I don't get my feelings hurt with that. I'm able to see that that's where I've come from and I know that I'm in a different place now. So I, when I, when I think about that phrase, you know, new dad, that lights me up.

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Brent Dowlen: Welcome to the Dad Hat Shenanigans podcast, the Unfiltered Truth about being a dad. Real Dads real stories, unfiltered, candid conversations on fatherhood. I'm your host, Brent d, and my guest today is Jon Hord from the Engaged Father Project. Jon, welcome to the Dad Hat Shenanigans podcast. 

Jon Hord: Ah, thank you, Brent.

Appreciate the opportunity. 

Brent Dowlen: Jon. Now you have some trouble deciding on [00:05:00] your hat for the show. So. For our listeners, 'cause not everybody catches the YouTube version. Explain. Is that a converse symbol on your hat? It, it looks kinda like the con Oh, world's best dad. It just looks like the converse symbol.

Yeah. I'm, I'm old, so like I still have my con all stars everywhere around the house and so wear 'em. So tell us about your hat. 

Jon Hord: It's a gift for my kids, man. And you know. This means the world to me. Um, I, I, I work, I work hard, and I'm very intentional with what I do as a dad to, to be an incredible dad for my kids.

I mean, I, I feel like it is the most important work that I can do while I have this time here on this planet. And, uh, it's an awesome reminder that, you know, this came from them. And, uh, you know, I, they're cheap. Like these hats are everywhere. Um. The fact that it came from them, that they had the idea to buy this as a gift for [00:06:00] me means the world.

So I wear it with pride. 

Brent Dowlen: World's greatest. I should like, like pin that in on my hat. So yeah, we'll just keep decorating this big, ugly red hat I wear. Jon, how many kids do you have, boys, girls, both. What? 

Jon Hord: I got two kids. I have a, a daughter that's 13 and a son that's nine. 

Brent Dowlen: Excellent. So you're, you're right in that fun age where they're getting a little more independent and kind of doing their thing and Yeah, that's a good age group.

I, I like that. I'm, I'm a huge fan. Uh, I used to be a youth minister, so. The, I actually like everybody when I had the kids like, just wait till they're teenagers. It's like, this is my favorite age group dude. Like, do you understand? I used to be a youth minister. This was my choice to work with teenagers.

Yeah. But my kids are hitting that pre-teen into the teenage stage. My oldest daughter just turned 14. I'm super excited about this portion of life. [00:07:00] 

Jon Hord: Me too. And you know, when everybody says, like, when you have a daughter, like, oh, just, just wait. Like, you know, when they turn 13, 14, they turn into a different person and everybody's got these really scary stories.

Um, and I understand that like they're coming from a good place and they're just trying to kind of give, you know, a heads up. But I've said all along, um. I mean, people would say that to me like when my daughter was like six, like, oh, enjoy it now because when she's a teenager she like turns into this other person and, and I've said the whole time, I'm gonna buck the trend.

It's not gonna be that way for us. And now like time will tell. But I think having, having a mindset going into these years, like yes, there are challenges and yes, there are so many. Changes going on. But I think that, you know, the parents and the dad in particular has, we've got so many choices and we've got an opportunity in terms of [00:08:00] how these years feel.

And you know, like there are recent examples that I can point to where, you know, she was having a reaction that was very different than, you know, that 6-year-old daughter of mine would've reacted. It's totally different, but like, of course it's different man, like her, her body and her mind and socially, like there are so many changes going on for her.

So like why wouldn't she have different reactions? And so I, uh, I just don't take it personally. If I wanted to take it personally, yes I could. I could easily have my feelings. Like, I don't deserve that. Where's this coming from? I just don't do it. And I just know like, Hey, she's got more stuff going on.

Some stuff I'm aware of some stuff I'm probably not. And when I, when I show up with that kind of empathy and compassion and understanding, like those, those little flareups, they don't, they don't seem to last that long. And then, uh, then we're like right back in the groove. [00:09:00] 

Brent Dowlen: I think it's funny everybody reacts that way because I mean, if you are.

Child moving into their teenage years, still act like a 6-year-old, we'd be going to get help. Right, 

Jon Hord: right. 

Brent Dowlen: I mean, that's kind of a red flag for people usually, that there's something maybe not firing quite right. So, yeah, I, I get it. People are like, oh, they changed. Well, well, yeah. You, you changed when you became a teenager.

I hope so. 

Jon Hord: Right, 

Brent Dowlen: right. It'd be weird. It'd be really, really weird. It's like. 15-year-old running around, like acting like they were sick. Still, that's, people are funny. Like we say, like as human beings, we say something the stupidest thing sometimes, like, I used to love, uh, the Bill Eng, here's your sign kind of stuff.

That was him, right? 

Jon Hord: Mm-hmm. 

Brent Dowlen: Yeah. 

Jon Hord: Yeah. 

Brent Dowlen: I used to love that, right? Because we do, as humans, we say something of the stupidest things sometimes. Really did, did you think that through like, it's [00:10:00] like I said something yesterday in front of my daughter and my, my 14-year-old gives me these looks like, really Dad?

Really? I was like, what? She's like, I. King of the obvious much. I was like, yep, you're my 

Jon Hord: child. Yeah. And when people say things that kind of catch me off guard like that, something that I've been doing more of recently is I just kind of, I ask myself like, what, like what's behind that statement? Right? Like, so if that, if that statement is like the surface level thing, like what would be right underneath that?

Like maybe, what are they trying. What are they trying to communicate? But they're just choosing this phrase as like a vehicle and then like going another level even deeper to kind of ask like, you know, what, like what's the benefit? Like, what's the payoff for them by saying that, and it, uh, you know, I don't, I'm not trying to like diagnose people with things, but me pausing, particularly when somebody says something, it just seems like so outta left [00:11:00] field and like sometimes like rude or crude.

I just do a little bit of like internal digging and theorizing and it shifts the perspective for me. And I don't, it feels, it feels better, you know? Like if somebody says something that's really rude and I kind of stop and think about it, I might land on something that's like, man, maybe they're just like hurting like a lot.

And when I get to that, like then I can have like an open heart for that person to be like, man, that's too bad. Like that they're. Whatever they're feeling causes this sort of like lash, lash, full lashing. I don't know if those are words, this like crude statement to come out, but I can have some compassion for them instead of just wanting to like, you know, like flip the bird and be like, I don't deserve that.

Who do you think you are? It feels way better for me to just kind of like pause and open up a. 

Brent Dowlen: Jon, uh, we're gonna get carried away in the conversation. Uh, just for context for [00:12:00] everybody listening, who are you? Tell us a little bit about you and what you do. 

Jon Hord: Yeah. Thank you. Uh, my name's Jon Hord and I'm the founder of the Engaged Father Project, which is a group coaching program.

Forefathers, uh, aimed to give, you know, busy, driven, successful fathers that are typically investing a lot of their time and energy. Into, you know, professional and financial goals creating. A space and an opportunity where they can come and get really clear on the type of dad that they want to be. Um, take a look at some things that, uh, maybe they've been kind of bumping their head on some hurdles that are holding them back from, from being that dad.

And then helping them set up, you know, a plan, a process, some steps in place to ensure that like once they get this, this clarity and this, you know, renewed sense of energy to be this awesome version of the dad that they wanna be and why they wanna be it. Practical steps to like turn that into sustainable action so it's not [00:13:00] just a, a flash in the pan and then like the kind of the bow on all of that is, uh, a really cool space where dads can come and, you know.

Take their mask off and take their armor off and put their shields down and just be a human being. You know, being a dad with young kids, like, it's hard, right? There's so many challenges and the cliche of like, there's no manual on how to do this. Like, all these things are true and it's challenging. And oh, by the way, like if you're, you know, investing a lot of time and energy into, you know.

Building a career or running your own business or starting a business, whatever. It's just a lot to manage and, uh, you know, stereotypically dudes are not real good at, you know, being vulnerable and being honest. But when we do, it feels pretty nice and it's, uh, it brings a lot of sense of like relief and comfort to do it.

So [00:14:00] creating a space where, where a unique space where guys can come and do that. 

Brent Dowlen: I love it. And dads certainly need that. That's one of the things we strive for on this show, is we just want to be a place where dad's can be real. Right. That's, that's one of the reasons I started doing this particular show.

I have four other podcasts. Um, but I just wanted that space because as a father, right, I've talked to dads all over the world, uh, on my other shows. I've been doing my primary show for five years, and I've, I've been blessed to be able to talk to dads all over the world. And generally, we weren't talking about fatherhood.

But it was always a connection point. Like when I was researching my guests, it's like, Ooh. And so I'd, I'd ask 'em about their kids and stuff and, and like, dads can come together. It is like the old joke about dads at a, like a community barbecue. They may not even know each other's names, but they can talk about their kids together.

Jon Hord: Right, 

Brent Dowlen: right. We, it is just that a bridge for a lot of men. So I love the fact that you're doing that, creating that space. Can I ask you, ask you a question without you taking offense? [00:15:00] 

Jon Hord: Oh yeah. Let her rip man. 

Brent Dowlen: How old are you? 

Jon Hord: I am four. I always have to stop and think. Uh, I am 45. Okay. I'm 90% sure I'm 45.

Brent Dowlen: That's fair. That's fair. I, I just turned 46 in December, so I, I'm, I'm still having to think through it now. I was just curious because you are just talking to you so far. You are much more comfortable using some terms. A lot of men in our age range are not, not, and so, like in my head I was, I, I had you just younger in my head.

I had you like thirties, early thirties, maybe. Just because most guys in their forties can't throw weight around words like vulnerability and talk about feelings with as much ease as you seem to be able to, which is a great quality. It's an absolutely great quality. Thank, and someone needs to be able to lead that conversation, but it just, I always like gauge people by [00:16:00] my personal experiences with 'em.

It's like, wow, I, I totally had you like a low thirties maybe. 

Jon Hord: Thanks. It's, uh, yeah, uh, I'm leaning way into vulnerability and like there are some other things that I've had to do to kind of get to that, right? Like, man, like fear of judgment from other people used to terrify me. And, you know, it would cause inaction and I would stay small and I've got, I mean, I could fill up three podcasts with, you know, past stories and all that stuff as to why.

I felt that way. Mm-hmm. Um, but I, I saw it. I was, I worked with a coach and I was able to see it. I decided I don't want to live that way anymore. And I started changing things. And one of the, one of the things that I do now is I just lean into being really open and honest and knowing that like, I don't have to be for [00:17:00] everybody.

Um, but when you start. Just being like really honest and authentic. Other people will pick up on that and they're gonna like, raise their hand and be like, like, yes. Like that. Like, I'm, I, I feel what you're feeling like, and without that sense of honesty and vulnerability, I just find that that doesn't really happen as much.

So I, yeah, I appreciate you saying that, man. I, I, I, that feels nice. 

Brent Dowlen: Now I, I, I truly, and, and I do mean it as a compliment, just some people get a little mad when I ask about their age, uh, because that is such a, a 

Jon Hord: Have you had anybody not another age before? 

Brent Dowlen: I, I've had a couple people have to like, um, I, I had a wife once chime in from off camera.

You're 53? 

Jon Hord: Yes. That would be helpful right now. 

Brent Dowlen: Right. Yeah. If my wife had been closer to the studio, she, yeah. That's, 

Jon Hord: mm-hmm. 

Brent Dowlen: [00:18:00] She used to, uh, engineer for my podcast and I'd get little notes in the private chat for the, for the recording. She'd be like, blah, blah, blah. I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm this old.

I'm, you know, um, my, my wife of my second, second brain, 'cause I'm the guy who wakes up on my birthday, is like, and someone's like, happy birthday. I'm like. Huh? Oh, that's the day. Yeah. It, it's not a, like, I know some guys don't like their birthday. I just, I don't care. It, it's another day. I don't feel older.

Like I, so I've never had this whole, I have to celebrate my birthday kinda moment. I've always gone to work and done my thing and, uh, you know, the people I wanna spend it with I'm with. So I'm not too worried about it days. But yeah, people days, I like days. People get thin about it. 

Jon Hord: Yeah, I don't need like pomp and circumstance, I like birthdays in that.

It's a, it's a reminder to kinda let somebody know how you feel about 'em. 

Brent Dowlen: Mm-hmm. 

Jon Hord: Um, so from that perspective, I think they're [00:19:00] cool. Uh, you know. Social media, click a button to like, wish them a happy birthday, eh, maybe there's some value in that. There's probably people that maybe if they get like a thousand of those mm-hmm.

Brent Dowlen: It 

Jon Hord: feels warm and they feel cared about. Great. If that's, if that's true. Cool. Uh, I would say on someone's birthday, you know, set the calendar reminder and. Call 'em, write 'em a letter, man. Handwritten letters, fantastic. Or, you know, if your lifestyle is busy, just send them a heartfelt text. You know, tell 'em you love 'em.

Tell 'em why they're, uh, you know, important, um, to you tell them why their happiness is important to you. And it's a cool opportunity. It's like a, it's a nudge, right? It's a annual nudge to let somebody know why they're special. So I, I, I do like them for that, for sure. 

Brent Dowlen: They, they just cracked me up. I There's a point where you're just like, yeah, I'm another day older.

Do I feel different? [00:20:00] No. Right. I'm too practical. That's, that's the thing. I'm, I'm a very practical individual, so like, yeah. Okay. It happened. Next thing I got hugs from my daughters, my wife. Morning my birthday. Yay. That was, that's all I needed. I was good. 

Jon Hord: Perfect. 

Brent Dowlen: Jon. You, uh, you mentioned that you've got some bad advice, right?

Some earlier when we were talking because everybody and their dog has advice when you come become a dad. Do you remember when you found out you were gonna be a father for the first time? What was the like worst advice you were given? 

Jon Hord: Oh boy. Um. No, I don't remember the worst advice, but I remember getting a lot of advice and some of it is conflicting, so it's super confusing as an ex a, a someone that's about to be a father for the first time and you're getting, you know, advice [00:21:00] from multiple people that are telling you different things.

And so there's already so much going on when you're preparing to have your first kid that, you know, getting all this advice can make it. Even more challenging. So because of that collective experience, I what I told myself when in when I would be giving somebody advice that was about to have a kid for the first time, I would say, I don't give advice to new fathers, but I'm gonna give you a piece of advice and that is just relax.

Know that you're gonna figure it out. You're gonna have a million different people telling you a million different things and they worked for them like they genuinely did, and they're trying to help. So you can just kind of take it with a grain of salt. If something stands out and you wanna like implement that, cool.

But like, just don't be overwhelmed and just know, like to give yourself like the space to kind of figure this thing out [00:22:00] as you go. And I just try to bring a little bit of. Calm, um, to people and maybe reassure them a little bit that it's going to be okay. And I can even, I can even kind of play that out to current day, right?

Like, 'cause you know, you talked about, you know, on your birthday, you're just another day older. Well, like today when Wake up, when we woke up, like our kids have never been. This, the age that they are today, they've never been that age before. And so we as parents have never parented a kid that is this age before.

So it's like, it's always changing and evolving. So just kinda, you know, like take a breath. Like it's, it's okay. Like we're gonna, we're gonna figure this out. Yeah. Sometimes it's hard. But like, let's fall back on the things like the, the pillars that are the most important things to us. Let's fall back onto those and just know, like, we'll get through all this.

It's all good. [00:23:00] 

Brent Dowlen: Jon, what do you wanna talk about today? We, we can go anywhere. It's your conversation. Let's, let's have a conversation that, you know, supports our dads out there. What do you feel passionately that you'd love to talk about today? 

Jon Hord: Well, the first thing that came up is I want dads to have goals.

I want dads to have dad, dad goals, right? So many fathers have professional goals and financial goals, but I don't, I don't bump into a lot of dads that have really, you know, clear cut. Goals when it comes to being a dad. Um, I think lots of people tell themselves like, you know, they want, they wanna be a, a good dad.

And I think there are, like, there's lots of good dads out there, but what does a, what does being a good dad [00:24:00] mean to you as an individual? I, I want, I want people to have an answer to that question, and I think part of that answer should be like, is how do I want my kids to feel about me? You know, um, for example, like as a dad, you know, I want my kids to be safe.

I wanna be a protector. I want my kids to be physically safe. Great. It's a fine goal, but them being safe. And them feeling safe are not the same. So like, do you want one, do you want the other? Do you want both? Uh, because it's not necessarily like a package deal. And for me, yes, I do want my kids to be physically safe, but I want them to feel really safe with me as a parent.

And part of that comes back to the vulnerability things. When I, when I handle a situation and you know, I'm reflecting back on it, I'm like, man, I could have done that differently. I own it. I did that this morning with my kids. It was bedtime last night. The kids [00:25:00] get this like streak of energy and they're like bouncing off the ceilings and we're trying to get ready for bed.

And it was like, okay. Kind of like, let it go, let it go, let it go. And it was like all guys like, come on, like can I get some cooperation? It was like in one ear out the other. I got a little frustrated. I didn't yell. Uh, I never hit my kids, so it like didn't escalate to anything where it was damaging. But I did get frustrated and it's like, as I was thinking about it, I had other choices in that moment.

And if I could run back the clock and do it differently, I would. And I, I apologized first thing to my kids this morning. Said, Hey, I got frustrated last night. I explained why I got frustrated, not to justify it, but to let them know like kind of what's going on internally with me. And then I just said, I'm sorry, that's not how I wanna be.

And I want you to know that I'm taking steps to work on that. I just want you to know that. So I, I own it. 

Brent Dowlen: I, [00:26:00] I. I think a lot of dads don't understand that it's okay to actually have real conversations with your children, right? Um, I was talking to my daughters yesterday and they were asking about doing something.

I was like, okay, well, I'm okay with that. However, if y'all want to do that, I want this done. Because this not being done stresses me out and I can't show up as well in that situation when I'm stressed out. So in a fair exchange, let's talk about this. If y'all wanna do this, I'm down with that. But we need to, you know, have this space ready.

Right. And this whole conversation just occurred where it's like, okay. I'm good. Yeah. [00:27:00] But blah, blah, blah. Right. Because you have, it's okay to have outside stressors. You're gonna have those moments when you're frustrated as a dad. Right. But it's amazing how quickly your kids can actually learn to understand that.

And also it gives them permission to un have those moments. 

Mike Lindell: Mm-hmm. 

Brent Dowlen: Right. My daughter has had that conversation. My daughter has some social boundaries like I do, where with just like groups of people where she needs to have some downtime after having to be very social or something. And she's like, I just need this right now.

Because we've been in this situation where we had to be more outgoing and more social. She's more of an introvert, and so she's like, so I need some boundary time here so I can just, it's like, because I feel this way, it's like, great, go read your book. Go do this. Whatever you need to do, unplug for a little while.

Right? But because we [00:28:00] can have that conversation and. Her mother and I can go, yes, we're okay with this, or blah, blah, blah, but we need this as well to make this all work. Yeah. Right. My children now know they can go, I need this. 

Jon Hord: Mm-hmm. 

Brent Dowlen: I have this feeling right, and, and I can share that and that's okay.

Right. Dad can be frustrated, dad can have a moment, and dad's gonna come back around and be like, Ugh. You know what? I probably didn't react really well in that moment. This is what's going on. I'm sorry it happened that way. It shouldn't have, but this is what's going on and, and why I reacted that way.

Right? I don't think dads think a lot of times they can do this with their kids. It's like weakness or something. 

Jon Hord: I agree. I think, uh, a lot of fathers have this sort of either an ideal vision. [00:29:00] Not an idea, vision, an expectation of what a father is supposed to be. And that expectation probably largely comes from, you know, what they saw from their dad as a kid and you know, other dads, and then a whole bunch of other different places.

Like, I mean, even, you know, the, the media that we choose to consume can start to shape or influence what we think a good dad should be. So like there's this expectation. And I think sometimes fathers feel like anything that's said that doesn't support that expectation, like weakens it. So it's like, well, I, I, I want, I want it to be over here.

And if I say something that takes it another direction, that's not good. So I'm not going to, my choice is I don't want that expectation to be there. I just wanna be, I wanna be another. Human being with my kids, right? Like we're a family of [00:30:00] four and we are four unique people all living within the same house, and we're not always going to want the same thing.

I think knowing and understanding that is really helpful, but like I don't, I'm not interested in wielding this parental authority. I will make an unpopular decision. I believe in it and, and I'll have that conversation with them as well. Like, Hey, I know you're disappointed, frustrated, angry, fill in the blank.

Whatever it is that you're feeling, I get it and I understand why you feel that way, but like, just so you know, like it would be way easier for me as a dad to say. Yes to this thing because we would avoid this conflict or tension or whatever, but, but I don't believe that yes is the right answer. So like, I care about you enough to make this unpopular decision in spite of it not being the easiest path.

And so I don't. You know that like, because [00:31:00] I said so, you know, kind of, you know, puff your chest up. It's, it's my way, the highway that's not for me. Like if that's how you wanna rule your house, I can't tell you not to. I would. I would implore people that wanna parent that way to do some of that introspection and digging and really sort of confirm the reasons why they want that.

And if they do that digging and if that's the type of parent that they wanna be, I would say more power to you because that is your choice as a parent. It's just not for me. So I don't, I don't wanna wield that authority in my household and so I, I kind of work to dismantle it. And again, coming back to that vulnerability piece.

It's in support of that. Hey, I, I flubbed that last night. I, I was tired. I, you know, I try not to make excuses. I do, like I said, I, I explain kind of where it was coming from, but like, hey, I, I got frustrated and, uh, it's not how I wanna show up and I'm, I'm working to get better there. I just, when I think [00:32:00] about how my kids must feel.

When they're walking away from a conversation like that and they, they see their dad just being like really open and honest. That's a feeling that I wanna, I wanna invest energy into. So I do. 

Brent Dowlen: Now you, you said goals. You want fathers to set goals because we all, we all wanna have the world's greatest dad hat, right?

Like you're wearing today. And I think we all have those lofty goals and I'm a goal oriented person, so, you know, it's one of the things I share with people. It's like, no, no, you need to get specific about goals. This is whole. Okay, yeah. You wanna be the world's greatest dad, so whatever. Like, let's set some real goals.

I know a goal for me as a parent, because I grew up in a house where. My house is where my friends all wanted to be. My, my house was the crash house through school. My mom would go to bed on Friday night and might wake up with 30 of my friends on [00:33:00] the den floor. Like my house was the house where all because it was the safe house.

It was the house where everybody felt loved and cared for. And so as my wife and I as children get older, right, that's one of the things we've talked about is we want our house to be that house. That's one of our parenting goals is that our children's friends, this is where they feel safe. This is where they want to be.

Now I have two girls, which means when their friends are over, I have lots of screaming girls 'cause Oh my goodness. Um, and, and that does definitely hit my stress level. So I'm like, ah, right. A lot of estrogen in the house. But I still want that, right? I want to be that house as a father where my daughter's friends feel loved, protected, and safe.

Right. And I think that's what you're talking about when you said set specific gaggles, what is the specific daggle, like for example, that you've set in your [00:34:00] life? 

Jon Hord: Is it okay if we come back to that question in just a second? 

Brent Dowlen: Yes. 

Jon Hord: So. I love what you said about having those goals. You talked about a personal sacrifice that you're willing to make, right?

Like the screaming girls, and that raises your stress. I, I, you know, I don't think that fathers should like that. We need to suffer, you know, for the benefit of others. Like, I don't think that it's a requirement that we suffer. Um. But I'm, I love the fact that you are willing, you're being selfless in that moment.

It's, you wouldn't choose if you could flip a switch and turn on speakers that just play screaming teenage girls, you wouldn't do that. You don't, it's not something you're interested in. No. But like, you see the, the value and the benefit of it because you and your wife have these goals for your kids, and so you're making.

An intentional choice. You're, you're making decisions that support that bigger [00:35:00] goal and I just think that is so cool. So I, I wanted to take a second to sort of shine a light on that and you know, if nothing else man, like tip of the cap to you. 'cause I thank you. I think it's awesome. 

Brent Dowlen: But I'm, I'm interested because since this is something you share with guys, is setting goals, I, I show that as an example of how I think you're talking about, but what are, what are some of your personal goals?

Because I think that's one of the best ways we can communicate that with other dads is how to get those specific goals. So what is one of your specific goals with being a father? 

Jon Hord: We already touched on one, which is I want them to feel safe in this house. So, uh, my three that come to the top of mind are safe, seen and supported, and.

I'm also, you know, willing to admit like these goals may change and evolve over time. There's a, there's an author that I love, um, Dr. Benjamin Hardy, and if somebody's looking for, [00:36:00] uh, some good books to read, you know, personal development books, look into Dr. Benjamin Hardy specifically, like, be Your Future Self Now.

Awesome. Read. But he says everything is a draft. And I like that statement, and I say it a lot because I think it releases some of the pressure to like, you know, come up with these goals that will stand the test of time. Again, like if you wanna put time and energy into developing those, cool do it. But for me, it, it brings a sense of calm and it sort of reduces the expectation to be like, these are the, these are the goals that make the most sense for me and my family.

Now, maybe that'll stay. If it changes, like that's okay. Um, so we touched on them feeling safe. Scene. We kind of touched on like, I think part of that is not wanting to have to wield my power as a father. I want my kids to be seen as, you know, a member of the household, right? This is, we are a team of [00:37:00] four.

It's not two parents versus two kids. Um, and I, and I say that just because I, I feel like. A, a child feeling like they truly belong in the home and as a part of the family, uh, it's, it's really important to me. Um, and then the other one is supported and there's like a, I dunno if it's an analogy or a metaphor, but I've said it before where it's like, when I think about raising a kid, I don't want to be the bonsai.

Master where I'm using wires to direct a branch this way, and, you know, daily I'm coming and I'm, and I'm pruning and, and clipping a leaf that is a little bit outta place because I've got this vision of perfection in my mind. I, I don't wanna parent that way. I, I want to [00:38:00] provide like the essential.

Elements for my kids, you know, uh, to continue the plant analogy. I want to, I wanna be the sun in the water, in the soil, and I wanna give them the things that they need to, like, grow strongly, uh, in any direction that they choose. And I wanna support them in that. And that's, that's really important to me.

And that I, I know I've, I've talked to enough people where they don't agree with. That style of parenting, that's okay. Like, I'm not here to say like, this is the way that you should do it. I'm just saying this is the way that I wanna do it. And, and here's why. And, uh, you know, as a dad, I think we've got this really, this really incredible opportunity to not only raise good humans, but to just be like very intentional with like the direction.

We want our family tree to go and like, to get [00:39:00] really clear on the reasons why that we want it to go that way. So I, uh, I don't know. I'm, I'm honored. I, I think it's such a big deal and I, I'm just, I'm up for the challenge of, of being the, the best dad that I can be. 

Brent Dowlen: I think there's a lot to. What, what you said about letting the kids kind of go their own direction.

You don't wanna shape too much. Um, I a hundred percent agree with you. I, so I live in the middle of farmland. Like I, I live in the middle of agriculture. Uh, I can't grow anything, like I kill everything, but I live in farming community. Um, but we have a lot of apple trees. Like, like we're right in Orchard, the heart of Orchard country, and.

They like the younger apple trees, they, they produce fruit faster and better than some of the older ones do a lot of times. And one of the things I've seen them do since I've been here for [00:40:00] years is they put in steaks that helps the trunk stay up because as these young trees start to get fruit heavy, it will actually like just bend the tree over entirely.

And, and that's not good, right? So they add the support for the trunk so the tree can stand. Strong as it bears its own fruit, but they're not, you know, saying it has to do this way or that way. Right. They're stabilizing it so it can blossom. So it can grow. So with your plan analogy, I, I think that's a great way to parent.

I, I hate parents who, I can't say that, that's the wrong way to say that. Um, I don't agree with parents who try and control what their kids are interested in. Uh, my wife and I have one hard rule, and that is if you start something, you finish it. So if you start a new sport, say you, my, one of my kids wants to play, uh, soccer or whatever, [00:41:00] okay, you started the season, you finish the season.

Even if you hate it, you finish the season 'cause you made a commitment to that team. You don't have to play next year. You don't ever have to play again in your life, but you made a commitment. You're gonna see the commitment through for the length of the commitment. Um, after that it's, yeah. You wanna try that?

Sure. Let, let's try that. My kids have done theater, they've done soccer, they've done basketball, they've done a number of different things now. I was like, what do you enjoy doing? Okay. Right. Uh, my oldest daughter loves to draw. My youngest daughter likes to do art, but not as much as her older sister, but she likes to cook more than her older sister.

Right. So we just try and. It's like, oh yeah, you wanna do that? Great, let's do that. I have some hard, fast rules about you're gonna learn the basics. Like you have to learn how to cook in my house. Period. Thought period. Everybody in my house cooks. It's a life skill. Boy, girl, it doesn't matter. Everybody should be able to cook nutritious food for themselves and their friends just how it is.

[00:42:00] Um, but if you want to get really good at baking that, that's your choice, right? Yeah. So I totally, I I think that's a great approach to just let your kid, 'cause you have no idea what, your kids are amazing that way, right? You, you just, you know, give 'em love and take care of their basic needs. And it's exciting to see what they do.

Who they become. Who are you gonna be? You know, I want my kids to be basically help, helpful, useful people in society. Like I want them to make the world a better place by their way. They live and conduct themselves. But after that it's like, do your thing. What do you, what do you want to do? Right. Uh, I don't, I don't want to tell.

I've seen it argued 'cause a lot of, I've seen the argument that. Culturally, uh, Japanese parents tend to pick certain skills and hobbies for their kids because it teaches them things that are valuable for later in life. 

Jon Hord: Okay. 

Brent Dowlen: Most of 'em [00:43:00] require some kind of musical instrument. They pick specific hobbies in sports or whatever because it has greater play through.

And I've heard that old money families do the same thing with their kids. They're like, you're going to take up this hobby, this hobby, and this hobby because it has transfer. They found out as a family for generations, it has transfer to the way you run a business or you do this or that. When I've read it, I'm not sure how I feel about it.

I don't know that it's the right answer, but it's interesting, uh, the different direction. It's like, hmm, because I'm, I'm with you. It. Spread your wings, man. Be you, do, do what you wanna do. And you know, as long as you're contributing to the world in a, in a positive way, after that's you. 

Jon Hord: Yeah. And you know, what you said is, it's interesting of, you know, um.

Forcing, picking a hobby or, you know, forcing, you know, kid to play a musical instrument. [00:44:00] Like if you kind of, you know, peel the layers back, you know, um, plenty of science on playing musical instrument helps with brain development. Mm-hmm. Like, okay, the brain development, that's a good thing. It, so it's the reasons or the benefits or whatever it's gonna be on a spectrum, right?

So like over here you might have brain development, well, like over here. What if it's like, they hate it? They feel like they don't have, you know, a sense of like choice within their own life. Maybe that's not so good. So like, it's not, it's not black or white, right? It's, this is, it's unique to everybody and we all get to decide like the decisions that we wanna make when it comes to being a parent.

And so, again, like just as a parent, do a little digging. Introspectively with, why is this important to you as a parent? And you know, I think typically like most parents will be able to come up [00:45:00] with an answer pretty quickly. It's like, well, 'cause if I don't do this, then I'm not teaching the responsibility.

Like, okay. And then just like try to go another level deeper. 'cause like we have these beliefs like right under the surface of like, we've got our actions and then we have these things that we believe to be true, like. Beliefs are unique to individuals. Like you believe one thing, I believe something else.

Like who's right? Right. There's nobody gets to say like this is right or wrong. There are some that I think are pretty universally agreed upon, like being kind to people is a, is a good way to be, but like there still is no law that says being kind is good, right? Like we all might believe that that's true, but it still, there is no universal.

Stamp of approval that says like, yes, do it this way. And so, you know, be intentional parents. Like get, get clear on why things are so important to you. Question your own fears. We've all [00:46:00] got fears and beliefs and things, you know, inside of us that can get a little bit tangled up and messy. Uh, I'm a huge proponent of, you know, therapy.

Uh, I'm a certified coach. I love coaching people. I love being coached. I think what people can discover, uh, about themselves when they are in that coaching space and they've got this container to like be asked questions from somebody that you know isn't there to judge them or tell them what to do, like incredible things can happen like.

Like, Hey everybody, like just do a little bit of work on yourself and maybe you'll love what you see. And then it's like, cool, double down. Great. Or maybe you'll find something you're like, oh my God. Like I've never really stopped to think about that. And more often that's what happens. It's like, wow, I've never connected those dots.

Um. Man, I could keep going. Brent, can I have another minute on this? Yes. I'll share a quick story. 

Brent Dowlen: Absolutely. 

Jon Hord: All right. And my [00:47:00] coaching certification program, it was like 10 months long. Really intensive, transformational. Awesome. One of the exercises that we did is we go through and we write down all of our beliefs, things that we believe to be true about the world, about ourselves, whatever, and it's just kind of like a brain dump and you fill in the blank.

I believe that. Whatever your brain comes up with next, you write it down. And I start doing that. And the first one that came up is, it kind of surprised me 'cause I'd thought about it in probably a couple decades. I believe that if you're going to do something, do it right or do it well. And when I wrote that down, it took me back to, I was in my garage as a kid.

I was there with my dad. I was probably seven and he was saying those words to me. Where he, I, I understand that he had like nothing but good and positive intentions with that, and he probably heard that from his dad and you know, his [00:48:00] dad certainly grew up in a different era and timeframe than, than I did.

But I can see that it's about putting your best foot forward and, you know, having a sense of excellence because that is valuable to other people and that's how you can, you know, get a promotion and, and all these like positive things. I can see the value there. But how it affected me, at least in one way, was that I, I was afraid to fail for, you know, kind of most of my life because I believe that if you're going to do something, do it well.

And so if I didn't believe that I could do it, well, I wouldn't do. So I, I stayed small with the decisions that I made and not just like life decisions, but even socially, right? Like, if I was going to say something, I would have this like inner dialogue where I would run it through and be like, you know, am I going to say this?

Well, is there going to be a lot of value in this? How's it going to be received? And like, if it wasn't [00:49:00] like ticking all the good boxes, I just wouldn't say it. And so I, I wasn't. I wasn't being, you know, like true and, and honest. I was kind of running things through this fear filter almost. And so like, as part of the exercise, you, you dis you write down your beliefs, you kind of check the ones that you like, and you circle the ones that just don't, they're not working for you anymore, like old programming, whatever.

And then you transform them. And so I took, I personally transformed the belief of if you're going to do something, do it well to now, for me it's, if you're going to do something. Do it with passion because I can get behind that all day long. And for me as a parent, I see no downside to that. If you're gonna do it, just be passionate about it and, uh, I think it releases some of that expectation.

I love the sense of energy that it brings with it. And again, everything's a draft that may change, but for now, uh, that is one of my beliefs. 

Brent Dowlen: Love it. [00:50:00] Jon, I keep seeing a, a school logo in the background. Do you have a, a school thing? Are you a member of that? 

Jon Hord: I'm glad you asked. It is under construction as we speak.

So I am so excited about, um, what is, uh, going to happen next in 2026 as it comes to the engaged father project. I got, I got big stuff coming. 

Brent Dowlen: Excellent. Well, in that case, tell us where's the best place for people to find you and connect with you and what's coming for 2026 for you? 

Jon Hord: Yeah. Uh, right now, uh, you can, I have a website, the engaged father project.com.

Uh, you know, find me on Instagram. I had an Instagram post blow up in November, my first one ever that went viral, and that's been such a fun ride to see, you know, the growth. But like, even more importantly than that, like the comments that, that people are, are sharing in their experiences. [00:51:00] It's awesome. So on Instagram it's, uh, at the Engaged Father Project.

Uh, same thing on TikTok. I started TikTok late, uh, I, my, my very first post on TikTok is, is having a moment right now. Sorry, not my first post. My first post that's actually getting some real traction is happening as we speak. It's something that I put on there yesterday and, uh, again, like the comments are fantastic.

So, uh, I would appreciate if people could find me on those social channels. Again, I'm on YouTube at the Engaged Father Project. I'm on LinkedIn. Um, but I would say if, if any of this conversation today stirred something in you and you're like, you know what, like, maybe now is the time for me as a dad. To, to do some of this work to get, to get some of this clarity.

Um. Find me on Instagram and send me a message and we'll have a conversation. And maybe I'm the right person for you to help you do this [00:52:00] work. Maybe I'm not, but like, let's, let's talk and let's see what's possible. And, uh, I can tell you based off of the results from the other people that have done this work with me and gone through the Engaged Father Project, the results are real and they're meaningful.

And in my opinion, they're. They're priceless. So, uh, reach out. Let's have a chat 

Brent Dowlen: guys. For myself and Jon, thanks for joining us today on the Dad Hat Shenanigans and his podcast, we're just a community of dads navigating life challenges together. Until next time, laugh, learn, and live the dad [00:53:00] life.