Fandom of Fandoms Podcast
Fandom of Fandoms is a podcast that dives into the worlds that fans love most — from galaxies far, far away to magical schools, epic quests, and everything in between. Each episode spotlights a different fandom, exploring its history, what makes it special, and why people are so passionate about it. We’ll chat with real fans, share wild stories, and invite you to geek out with us, one fandom at a time.
Fandom of Fandoms Podcast
In Omnia Paratus: The Fandom Guys Talk Gilmore Girls
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Coffee, fast quips, and family reckonings—our favorite trio returns as we step into Stars Hollow with a superfan guide. We dig into why Gilmore Girls still lands as both comfort and critique, balancing cozy fall vibes with sharp writing and lived-in character growth. From the cadence of the dialogue to the way a single glance can tilt a dinner table power dynamic, we break down how the craft keeps you listening closer and caring more.
With Lyndsey at the table, we revisit the pilot’s confidence, talk pop culture references as world-building, and explore the show’s second life among Gen Z and Gen Alpha. The conversation gets real about privilege, expectation, and the myth of the perfect heroine, then pivots to the perennial debate: Team Dean, Jess, or Logan. We make the case for Jess as catalyst, not just crush—someone who sees Rory clearly and calls her to a higher standard when it matters.
Whether you’re a longtime fan or a curious newcomer, this is a warm, spirited tour through a show that rewards every rewatch. If you enjoyed the episode, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review—then tell us your team and your favorite Stars Hollow moment.
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Milestones And Personal Updates
SPEAKER_03All right, gentlemen and lady. Every time. Yep. We're back for episode 11. I got a notification saying we've posted 10 episodes. Yes. So we are in episode 11. Congratulations, guys. Yes.
SPEAKER_00This is huge. I uh I'm I'm proud of us, really. Kept it going. It wasn't just a one-off thing. Yeah. And we've we've kept it going this entire time.
SPEAKER_02So with how much you put into purchasing these could not have been a one-off thing worth it. We gotta get our money's worth. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03Well, uh, yeah, what have you guys been up to? Nick, what's what's been going on the last couple weeks? Just work.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I uh I feel like I am just burning the candle at both ends here, you know, between family life and uh new job, which you always think that it's gonna it'll slow down eventually. And as of yet, that has not happened. So I'm waiting for it. Um we'll see. What about you, Ben?
SPEAKER_02You uh I just visited, and I don't again, I thought more people knew about this, but I visited Falling Water this past weekend, which was a bucket list item of mine. So famous Frank Lloyd Red House. Probably one of the most famous residences in the world. I learned this week though that it was supposed to be a weekend/slash summer home for this family, but they paid the most expensive and famous architect in the U.S. to build it for them. So that's crazy. But yeah, um, that's what that's been my life lately. Michael, I know you have a big update, you said.
SPEAKER_03Well, I have two big updates, actually. So, update number one, first and foremost, we have the baby. Yeah. So that's big. But second big update is in uh in our Lego episode, I talked about not being able to acquire my my white whale set. I have since acquired it and put it together because it was a use set. Hey, there we go.
SPEAKER_02Oh, let me uh you actually put it together. That's important. Because you said you weren't going to initially.
SPEAKER_03If I was gonna buy it new, I was gonna leave it in box because of the value, but because it was a use set. Now I did still get it in box, which is pretty, pretty cool for a use set. Normally the boxes are long gone. So yeah, I'm feeling pretty excited about it. But the baby is uh yeah, number one update. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02I also saw that the Doc Ox set that you were talking about came out. Yes, the train and yeah, yep, yep.
SPEAKER_03I got that one as well for my birthday.
SPEAKER_00So Batman sets. I'm not even a Lego person, as you guys know, but I really want the Lego Batman set. That that emblem looks so good. Yeah.
Introducing The Gilmore Girls Deep Dive
SPEAKER_03All right, Nick, why don't you take away the intro?
SPEAKER_00It's broken. There it is. Oh my god. Hello and welcome to Fandom of Fandoms, the show where every single episode we are diving into the worlds that fans love most. And tonight we are taking a look at Gilmore Girls with our guest, Lindsay. Thank you so much for being here tonight.
SPEAKER_06Thanks for having me, guys. That's uh exciting to be here. Um I never thought that three guys would ask me to sit down and talk about Gilmore Girls, so here we are.
Origins, Tone, And Why It’s Cozy
SPEAKER_03Yeah. We're excited. I'm really excited. Like I am too, honestly. I've been looking forward to this. Yeah. Well, we like to kind of start with, you know, an overview of the fandom and of the content we're talking about. So uh Lindsay, why don't you take it away? Give us an overview and kind of an origins of Gilmore Girls.
SPEAKER_06So Gilmore Girls came out in 2001. At the time I was 10 years old, so I totally should have been watching this show. Um, it was definitely made for a 10-year-old. No, not at all. But uh something spoke to me about these fast-talking, weird, goofy, movie-loving people. And um, I was in on it and it was just really fun. And they it ran until 2007, uh, written by Amy Sherman Paladino. She also wrote Marvelous Mrs. Mazel, which won a whole bunch of awards the last few years and stuff, so she's she's pretty good. Um, and uh yeah, the overview of the show is like it's kind of like a dramedy. I think people think it's a lot like it gets lumped in because it had a lot of the similar actors of like the OC and like those kinds of shows. Yeah, it's not that show.
SPEAKER_03No, country hill, small, little supernatural.
SPEAKER_06It's on the same station, so like was on the WB back in the day, I think is what it's called, would be the CW now. Um, but uh yeah, it's very much more about this like family system. So it's like the Gilmore girls is obviously the two main characters, but also Emily Gilmore, the grandma. So it's kind of this like generation's story about like this upper class family and kind of the dynamics between these three different generations of women, um, and like how that all comes together when like the daughter has a a kid at 16, and like that's kind of a big deal in this circle. So um it's also really funny, um, but you know, just uh like what did I say? I think I told someone the other day it was like uh intergenerational trauma, but make it funny and cozy. So that's kind of the vibe of the show. It's okay.
SPEAKER_03Well, the coziness factor. So my wife told me that people watch it around like fall time, like it's a fall time show. I never knew that.
SPEAKER_02So well, yeah, and that's why when I was talking to you, okay, so behind the scenes, when I asked Lindsay to come on, we were originally gonna talk about New Girl, and then we ended up talking about like um like the timing-wise and everything like that, that it might be good to do Gilmore Girls, and so like that completely complete news to me.
SPEAKER_0625th anniversary, I think this month, either like this month or like late last month, but basically there's a whole bunch of stuff out now, and there's gonna be a documentary, but I don't think it's actually released yet. I was looking it up the other day and they're showing all these trailers for it, but it's not actually out yet, and you can't watch it anywhere, and they don't know when or where it's like on Kickstarter or something, and I'm so confused by all of it, but there's like all these trailers trying to make it happen. Okay. So even though it's technically already happened, but like um, so yeah, 25-year anniversary, which is crazy. It makes me feel so old. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_00Is it true that they are? I mean, I know they did the Gilmore Girls A Year and A Life in the Life in 2016, I believe is what I saw. Netflix. Um I heard they were planning on doing more episodes. Is that true or no?
SPEAKER_06I don't know because I don't consider a year in the life canon.
SPEAKER_05Oh, so we'll say this for our hot takes, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's that could be those could be fighting words.
SPEAKER_06I don't know of a diehard Gilmore who would be like, yeah, it was great. I loved it.
SPEAKER_03So okay, so you said a diehard Gilmore. Is that what fans are called? Gilmores?
Cultural Resurgence And New Generations
SPEAKER_06I don't know that we really have like a term. We're just kind of fans. We were like, I was like binge watching this show before like that was a thing. Like I would get the DVD box sets for Christmas and birthdays and just like on repeat. Yeah, it's such a like goofy, quotable show that like marathons were just like a thing, and it had such a strong following even back then. There just wasn't a place to talk about it before, and so I think that's why it's had like a resurgence because it has that like rewatchability, and like you can get invested in the characters, but now there's TikTok and this whole their generation that hasn't seen it and all these kinds of things, and it's it's I don't know, it's fun.
SPEAKER_00It's has it been making a comeback? Like that's something that I don't even realize. Is it a show that's kind of come back into the zeitgeist a little bit?
SPEAKER_06A little bit. I feel like it might have been more like a year or two ago, um, when it was kind of trending, and people were basically talking about how Rory was not the best heroine and how she was really very privileged and fair. Um uh but like it also, you know, I think is is a story that shows like, you know, no matter what you've got, like there's everyone's struggles. Um, but like, yeah, there's definitely like more Gen Z and Gen Alpha, like kind of finding it in like their views and interpretations on the characters, and some of they have a lot of hot takes for those of us who have been fans of it like for a long time, and it's kind of funny to hear those, but they're not entirely wrong.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, it's funny, like so. Back in 2000, when the show came out, you didn't have online forums necessarily. There might have been some, but yeah, like Facebook, Reddit, you know, I'm just TikTok, like all the places that people just put all their opinions constantly, like you probably weren't getting that much in the beginning. So, like it makes sense. And nowadays, like, okay, there's actually a place to talk about it and and whatnot. So yeah, that's totally that's interesting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, we usually start off too, like talking about our background with the fandom. So uh, Michael, I know that we talked about last time that you were interested in this sort of show, but um, talk to us a little bit about yeah, like what's your background with Gilmore Girls?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, my background is uh absolutely zero, so no background at all. Um Lindsay sent us a list of episodes to watch before the this episode, and uh so I watched those and that was enjoyable. I feel like I have some strong opinions on the characters just from those three episodes, honestly, which I will share. So but yeah, other than that, like well, I I mentioned these earlier, but I I think of Gilmore Girls in the same vein as those early 2000 WB shows, like like I said, One Tree Hill, you know, OC, Smallville, Supernatural, like those are all kind of lumped together in my mind. So I actually have kind of a nostalgia for like that style, um, but zero background at all. So what about you, Nick?
SPEAKER_00Um, my sister was big into Gilmore Girls, and so when the the TV was taken over by her, you know, the the family TV, uh, that was what I would end up watching. So I've seen more episodes of Gilmore Girls than I care to admit. My wife loves it a lot too, um, and is kind of salty that she's not here doing this episode. Uh two guests need an extra microphone. Well, again, maybe we just need to have a girls episode where we step back and let's yeah, that's a good idea. That's some of those people take over. What would Michael say at the beginning there? I mean, it'd be just okay, ladies, I guess, that'd be the Yeah. Yeah. Ben, what about you? That was bad. Sorry. That's not a good joke.
Hosts’ Backgrounds With The Show
SPEAKER_02Anyways. Yeah. Um, I feel like I've seen random episodes like every once in a while if I was hanging out with someone and it was on, but that would be about it. Um so I'm also relatively new to the fandom and the experience. But um yeah, I think I texted Lindsay. Like, she asked for my opinion after watching a couple episodes, and I was like, you know what? I could see myself if I didn't have 30 other things like on my list of things to watch. And that's not to say anything against this, just like, you know, uh with all the media out there to consume, like I think I could see myself watching more of this and going start to finish. But you know, uh timing, maybe we'll see, but not for one day. One day. One day. I did give you guys homework.
SPEAKER_06I I yeah I did. I I'm sorry about that, but I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Oh no, it was great, honestly. You guys did it. None of our guests have I don't think have given us homework.
SPEAKER_02Well, we haven't really got this is like one of the first things we've covered that like none of the three of us are like fans of, yeah. Yeah, that's true. So we're happy to have you on for that reason, if nothing else for sure. Uh so yeah, after we talk about that, we look we like to jump in a little bit. Like, so you talked a little bit about like discovering it when you were like 10, but what made it you drawn to it? Like you mentioned a little bit about like you know, these fast talking women who like to talk about movies and stuff like that. Is that what like you feel like grabbed you and pulled you in?
SPEAKER_06I think they were funny.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
What Hooked Lyndsey And Why It Endures
SPEAKER_06They were funny and they were smart and they were pretty, and I'd not really seen those three. It sounds terrible, but this was 2000 guys. No. And I hadn't really seen that all together. Like it was usually like you were the funny friend, or you were like the pretty girlfriend, or you were the nerdy girl, but like you weren't usually like able to be all of three of those things. And I feel like I've always like cracked a lot of dumb jokes, and I was always like really good at school, and that was like a characteristic, you know, adults kind of oh, you're smart, like and that kind of thing. And like I I felt like I wasn't like it was okay to be like girly and into like clothes and stuff and be those things. Like I thought that was interesting. I don't know if I consciously thought all those things because I was 10. Um but like you know what I mean? Like, I think there was just like something I was like, okay, and like they were also brunette, and I was brunette. There weren't like a lot of like back in the day, blonde was kind of the thing, like even with princesses and all that kind of stuff. So like I was like, all right, these feel like people maybe I can look up to, and not necessarily in all the ways, but like feel familiar with. Um, and I think now that I look back at it, I think there's also a lot of things like subliminally that I related to, like this like high expectations of the parents system kind of thing. Like that was very much, you know, my my family had really high expectations for how we would do in school and like how we would turn out and like how we would behave and all those kinds of things. So I think I related to some of that um kind of dynamic a little bit, but not quite as intense as the Gilmores, like proper the oldest uh generation of Gilmores, but um I think there was just a lot of layers to it. And uh I they do talk really fast, and I kind of always have talked fast, my brother and I, when we get going, like people are like, You guys aren't finishing sentences when you talk to each other. Do you know that? And we're like, no, actually, sorry. Um, so I think there's just a lot of it that just like kind of resonated with me, and like I've always been interested in films and that kind of thing. And there was this thing, so I talked about the box set thing. Um they make a lot of pop culture references in this, both like current to the time and like back through all of time. Um, and they're in the box sets were these little things that were like uh looked like little composition notebooks. Okay, and it said Gilmoreisms on the front.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_06And inside were like all of the references from the entire season, and they explained where they came from. This was before I could Google all of the things or New House. And so there's like one episode where Laura Ly says, I'll think about that tomorrow, a terra. And I was like, she said it's so goofy, and I was like, What is she talking about? I look it up in the thing, it says Gone with the Wind, and I'm like, what is this movie? And so, like, I watched a four-hour movie to understand a Gilmore girl's reference. I'm not even kidding. But I did watch a lot of like classic movies because I was like curious about what these women were talking about, and I think that started a little bit of the movie fanatic psychosis kind of thing. So nice.
SPEAKER_02Well, here's an episode, maybe. Yeah, I was gonna say, well, here's a good chance to plug. Like, Lindsay has a podcast of her own where you get to like dive deep into movies and other like true media.
SPEAKER_03What tells the name of your podcast?
SPEAKER_06My podcast is called Epilogues and Epiphanies, and it's kind of runs the full gambit of like, yes, we will m talk about all the silly weird things that happen on the movie sometimes behind the scenes. But the main thing I like to do on that show is what did we learn or what do we think we're trying to say by like this movie or the characters? Like, so what can we learn from the characters, or like what are we saying culturally that we like made this movie? Like, you know, that kind of thing. So I like to see what media can teach us about being good humans. That's kind of the premise is like what can we learn from movie and TV shows about how to be better humans? Because we don't have to make all of the mistakes to like learn from that. And I feel like if people can learn how to like learn from what they watch, then I think maybe we'll all be more empathetic people, and that's kind of the deal. So if that sounds like your thing, check me out. But you know, awesome.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I love you. Yeah, it's it's a great show. I definitely highly recommend it. Um, yeah, like so okay, thanks for sharing a little bit about your background with the show too. But is this this a show that you still feel like you come back to consistently? I feel I knew the answer, but like for our listeners.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, for sure. Um, it's it's one of those. I think growing up, I felt like I resonated with Rory, and now I like understand Lorelai, and I maybe judged her too harshly as an as a child, judging an adult that seemed like they didn't have their stuff together. I I get it. Um like so um yeah, I'm like older than the age that she is at the start of the show. Oh that hurts. That hurts.
SPEAKER_02And she had well, how old was Lorelai when she had Lorelik?
SPEAKER_06Lorel stage I had Rory when she was 16. So the show starts when she was 32, so I'm old.
SPEAKER_00God. This is the it's the same thing that we I think we've talked about this before, like how you will resonate with one character at one age, and now it's a it's a different character for sure. Because I can remember I did not care for Lorelei like when I was watching it with my sister when I was you know a teenager. I thought she was annoying. And now, like when I go in and watch the homework episodes, Rory Rory was totally annoying me.
SPEAKER_06Like Yeah. Nothing had happened to her yet, though.
SPEAKER_03So she was kind of she was trying, but she's a kid, so well, you're actually you're you're organically answering one of the questions we had, and that was as you've gotten older, how is your relationship to to or your perception of the characters changed, evolved? And I feel like you're kind of speaking to that right now.
Fast Dialogue, Writing Craft, And Rhythm
SPEAKER_06I think I have a lot more empathy for all of them. Um, you know, I think um especially like I one thing that's been fun to re-watch, like especially knowing I was gonna talk about this, but also since I've had my show, like I I watch things differently now. Um, and I think I notice the little things. So, like, you know, noticing like in oh, I think I told you guys to watch the pilot when um Lorelai is asking the parents for money um and watching when Emily starts to present the condition of the the Friday night dinner and watching uh Richard in that conversation is not a thing I ever did because he's not the one speaking, but he's kind of like eyeballing Emily, like, what are you doing? And he waits to see where she goes with it, and then when he sees that she's getting it somewhere reasonable or somewhere he would like it to be, he kind of relaxes back into his seat. But it's like he was because he was ready to give her the money flat out. Like he was ready to be like, You need money, I'll give you the check. We kind of don't get you, but like I will help you because you're my daughter. And then Emily presents this condition and he's kind of like on alert, but then he's like sees that she wants Lorelei to come around and he's like, Okay, that's not so bad. And so, like just those kinds of things, like you notice the layers of the characters a little bit more, and I think I think she does a really good job of writing those subtleties into those scenes um in a way that does make them very uh relatable and like you want to root for all of them and think they all are they're they're just all trying their best. It's just varying at points.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, if I can just interject. Um, so the the pilot episode was not on the homework list, but now that you've talked about it, I'm gonna go back and watch it because I I want to see all that.
SPEAKER_02That was because you sent me a separate list after it already sent them a list. Fair enough. I didn't watch the pilot. And I will say Richard Gilmore needs to be, he needs more screen time.
SPEAKER_06Just because he's my favorite, but really we'll get more screen time as it goes on for sure. But no, uh, Richard is honestly probably my favorite too. He is uh he's the like the sweetheart of the show. Exactly. You don't think he is because he's intense sometimes, but like he is he's the re like the reality grounded one of the show. Like there's later seasons where they're all not talking again, and like Lorelai will talk to him for like some kind of insurance question reason, and Emily gets all mad that you're talking to to her without me involved, and he's like, She's willing to talk to me. Like, maybe if she's talking to me, like she'll come back right. So he's like, Yeah, very just like driving everyone still to try to pull them together in his own way. And he he I love how much he loves Rory. Like, I don't know if I don't remember, I'm sorry guys, which exact episodes I gave you for homework. I thought about it carefully at the time. I don't remember what I gave you now. Um, but Richard love, love, loves Rory in a way that is just like so sweet to see, and like even to see how much Lorelei loves how much her dad loves Rory is kind of cool too. It's just it's it's a complicated system. But like they paint it really well in that you like you want everyone to be like get along, and you're like, no, don't don't yell at her, no, don't say that thing. Oh, please stop making that joke. Like, you know, you kind of just want them all to get along, and you you were outside of it, you can see it, but like I think they're just really well-written characters, and I think that's an excellent choice, Ben, for I think he is the best character in the world.
SPEAKER_02I mean, yeah, from so or Luke. Luke is pretty great too, yeah. But no, like uh so in the the um pilot, there's a s like the Lorelei and Rory come over for the first like dinner at the uh Emily and and Richard's place, and um it's just like awkwardly silent. Everyone's just sitting around, and uh Richard just like has a paper and he's reading it. And I I can't remember if like uh Emily and Laura starting into a little bit of an argument or something like that, but you can see how uncomfortable Rory is, and Richard just picks up a newspaper and hands it over to them, and they're both just sitting there, like and again, like a look at her. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, and so again, like even without saying words, you can just see like his character and his place in it, where he's like, Okay, we're just gonna like I can I'm a caretaker in that sense where like I can see how uncomfortable you are, and I just want to like give you a lot of things.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Wow, nice.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'll jump into what uh so you gave us a some homework to do, but let's think about um anybody that has never watched Gilmore Girls before, what would be your starter pack for for them if they were trying to come into the fandom?
SPEAKER_06I think you can just this is one of those. So I know like a lot of really well-known shows, they say, Oh, don't start there, it's not good. This one, the pilot hits. It does. Like it, I just I had hard choices to make. There were things I wanted I wanted to like make you guys see, like, especially from the like boyfriend's perspective and things. So that's kind of why I picked some of the episodes I did. Um, but the pilot is so well written. I don't think it feels like a traditional pilot in that way.
The “La La’s” And Sound As Vibe
SPEAKER_02I don't know, Ben, you can I I would agree, and I uh I had to pause it after the first couple minutes and check that it was the pilot because they just drop you in and you're just like, hold on, what's happening? And you can pick it up yourself, but at the same time, like it's not your traditional pilot where they're like very clearly setting up like this is who these people are.
SPEAKER_06Like kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02Or or they like could have easily set it up as uh the Gilmores, like Lorelei and Rory at least, like this is their first day in town, so they're experiencing town for the first time on their own, but no, they're like established and yeah, so it's it's interesting in that way, but it not in a bad way at all.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I think I think the pilot is a it's a good high dose of who everyone is. Um, and there are so so a thing about this show is extremely quoted. Um that is part of the the fandom, is we all know all the stupid little quotes, and there are many, and there are so many of them in the pilot. I didn't even realize until I was re-watching for this. I was like, oh, we're like five minutes in, they've had like six of them already.
SPEAKER_03So it's just kind of crazy. Yeah. Wow. Well, that kind of leads us into the elevator pitch portion. Um, so you've you've given us kind of a place to start with, you know, like if a new person wants to come into the fandom. But yeah, as far as like why someone should even come to the fandom to begin with, what you you know, what is your your elevator pitch?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you can give the impassioned plea to the to the impassioned plea.
SPEAKER_03You know, we're gonna change the the title of this from elevator pitch to impassioned plea.
Fandom Culture Beyond The Show
SPEAKER_06Um I think it's I it's I mean the the way I would describe it, I I think I said part of this earlier, but like intergenerational trauma, but make it cozy. Um like it's just it's not afraid to go in some really deep places and also have a lot of fun. Um and I think it really paints characters in a way that you like I think it's like they both simultaneously feel like entertaining in the way like cartoons, like that can't like they're just overblown and they're crazy and wild, but they also feel extremely real at the same time. Like, like uh you're you uh you probably saw Kirk in some episodes, but like there are episodes where you are cheering for Kirk and you like are rooting for him, or you feel bad for him, or you're like, Oh, that was sweet.
SPEAKER_00Like I did not see those episodes. No, you did not see those episodes, but like well that was I mean, like he he won Luke over in the one episode. So what was I can't remember the name the title of the episode, but oh where he's open, we're dragon fly open. Oh yeah, maybe and normally if you so if you've watched the episode, like normally, I mean Lu Luke, I feel like he's the grumpy person who like gets so annoyed with everybody in town all the time, and especially his two nemesis being like Taylor and Kirk. Like that's fair so like to see like in that one episode that that you picked out for us to watch when uh Luke was kind of being a little bit more friendly towards Kirk was was kind of funny to see.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it's uh yeah, I think it's just like if you uh if you're like me and you like want to see like some really good character development and you also like things that have like for me, I don't like something that's like all one thing. I need a little bit of like because I don't think we are all one thing. I feel like as people like we're we're heavy and light, we're like deep and we're silly, like, and I feel like this show does both of those things really well, kind of like almost in the same scene sometimes. And uh it's like full of really good Y2K fashion, which is kind of back. So there's that if you're into that, and like all these movie references, which are super fun, and like I just think it's it's really I I don't know because of the family dynamics, there's so many angles that I don't know anyone who can't relate to some level of it because of like parents and expectations, and like you can relate to like there's kind of two sets of parents you can like relate to, like I'm Rory and I have this like super casual, chill, fun mom, or I'm Lorelei and I have this really intense, strict mom. And like there's pros and cons with both of those, and like I think that's what it does well, is like it's kind of got the full spectrum, and it's not afraid to show you like it's not like Rory's relationship with her mom is never flawed because it's not like and then Lorelai got it all right, like you know, it's like it's uh it shows you that there's like a little bit of both, and I think it's just like a really well-written show. Um, that's uh I I just think it's really fun, but also really meaningful in a way that I like that it does both. So that's my impassioned plea. And I'm sorry I took so long.
SPEAKER_04No, no, no, yeah, I'm very impassioned.
Hot Takes: Teams Dean, Jess, Logan
SPEAKER_03That was amazing. Well, you mentioned kind of the silliness, even just in the three episodes I watched, I couldn't believe like the pace of the dialogue. Oh yeah, I was like, I was at first, I was kind of like, is it like supposed to be this way? I was kind of like caught off guard, but then I really got into it. I don't know what that style of humor is, like that back and forth, like quippy dialogue. But um I I really enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_00It was great. Are any of you guys like Aaron Sorkin fans? Oh yeah, I mean West Wing, yeah.
SPEAKER_06I've called her the female Aaron Sorkin before, um, just because he technically came first, but um like but I they actually had um dialogue coaches on staff, so they would like rehearse they uh Gilmore Girls episode script is like twice as thick because they used to print them um as a normal script, and they would have like a dialogue coach on set that would like be running lines with them so that they could get their takes in the rhythm that they were trying to hit them in and practicing them with that.
SPEAKER_03So it is like a rhythm, there is a rhythm to it, you know, which is really interesting.
SPEAKER_02And I remember so speaking of Aaron Sorkin, I know that this was true on Westwing, maybe it is true for Gilmore girls too, but like Aaron Sorkin was very particular about like not swapping out words, like you can't change the to this or something like that, because of how it affected the rhythm and like the poetry of it almost. And so, like, do you know if that was the same?
SPEAKER_06I don't know if she was as particular about like those little things, but I do I mean she uses I think it's a big part of the reason why I have the vocabulary I have. I was 10 years old and listening to someone use the word vestigial in a sentence as a joke. Um, and I was like, what does that mean? What is she and like, or picking up on context clues and like you know, figuring that stuff out. So I do think it's very she definitely has a lot of um five dollar words in it for lack of a better way of putting it. Um and I think that keeps you on your toes and keeps it interesting. So I know they definitely weren't ad-libbing those um for sure, but I don't know that she was necessarily okay. I've not heard that, so it doesn't mean it's not true, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, I just I had I just noticed a couple of facts here because I had done a little bit of research beforehand. Yeah, each script was around 75 to 80 pages long compared to the standard 45 to 50. Yeah, that's crazy. And then it says uh after that, well, before that it says uh the signature fast-based dialogue averages about 20% more words per episode than a like traditional TV.
SPEAKER_06It seems low from what's for the double, it does seem low, yeah. But yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well wow. Nice. Well, um, yeah, why don't we uh take a quick break here and we'll be right back. All right, we are back from our break. That was your opportunity to use some of our Gilmer girls.
SPEAKER_06You gotta hit the laws.
SPEAKER_02All right. Oh, yeah, the laws. That makes sense.
SPEAKER_06Definitely gotta hit the laws. Yep.
SPEAKER_03I'm feeling this.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_04But that's yeah, that's that's the laws.
SPEAKER_03Uh all right. So what is the before we jump into our next segment, what it can what is the laws for our our listeners out there?
SPEAKER_06Okay, so it's basically just like background kind of transitional music. Um, I that song that we just played was like an actual song. And then I think the producers slash writer of the show just really liked it and felt like it fit the vibe, and it did. Um there's just like eight million iterations of the laws. They're just kind of like the background, like they're walking towards the shop, kind of like filler music to kind of set the vibe of the scene we're about to go into. So that's the sad one. When I was contemplated. Contemplative one.
SPEAKER_02When I was looking for that one, we found like 10-minute compilations of it.
SPEAKER_03I felt very pensive listening to that. So yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. All right. Well, let's jump into our next segment here. So we like to talk about fandom culture. Um so first thing with fandom culture, is there any content outside of the main show or even the main continuity of the show that you enjoy? So that could be like YouTubers, TikTokers, maybe video essays you've heard, anything like that. Video games? Are there video games? That would be hilarious.
SPEAKER_06That'd be interesting. Um I there was a show, and it was like the show about Gilmore Girls, like called The Gilmore Guys.
SPEAKER_03I've not heard of this.
SPEAKER_06Hated it. Oh I'm sorry, guys, if you ever somehow like I don't even know if they're podcasting anymore, but like um I didn't like it except for one episode with their their guest star, what their guest host was Jason Manzukas. Okay. Because he's a very big Gilmore Girls fan. Really? It's that episode is worth listening to, but none of the rest of them are.
SPEAKER_02Jason Manzucas is just insane in general.
SPEAKER_06I want him to be my best friend.
SPEAKER_02Um you would know him if you saw him.
SPEAKER_06He plays uh Brooklyn 99, he's Pimento.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Adrian Pimento.
SPEAKER_06He's uh well, his real name was Dante Fierro, but what's his actual name? I'm blinking.
SPEAKER_02Uh the cologne guy in Parks and Rack. Dennis Feinstein. Yeah, Dennis Feinstein, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Why did I know his not real name?
SPEAKER_02Dante, because you're like Dante Fierro, that's a great name.
SPEAKER_06But it was this is more exotic and pony. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_03Great line. Also an amazing voice actor, too. He's done some very good.
SPEAKER_06He's he's hysterical, but listening to him talk about Gummo Girls just was like the best like 45 minutes. Like, I highly recommend that episode, but I tried to get into the rest of the show and I could not. I just they you guys do a good job of like balancing like banter and like show content. It felt like I was in a best friend's conversation that I didn't but people the people I didn't know. Like it was like two inside, and that was what I didn't love about it. Um, so yeah, podcasts, no, um, not really. Um, I did a couple episodes, but that was like before I kind of knew what I was doing. That was like literally episode two. So I don't know about that. Um, I don't know if I'd recommend those. Um, but uh you said there's no there's no video games that I'm aware of.
SPEAKER_02Let's let's imagine what a Gilmore Girls video game would be. It'd definitely be dialogue driven.
SPEAKER_03Well, I'm thinking like a Sims, but like Gilmore Girls.
SPEAKER_06I don't actually know. I'm I'm probably the wrong person.
SPEAKER_00Let's be real. I have no doubt that somebody on Sims has been. Yeah, yeah. Some more stars on the case.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I'm just not in that world enough to know if there's a version of this one in it, I guess.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, could it be? Well, given when this came out and just the overall vibe, I'm picturing like one of those Nancy Drew like point and click sort of things.
Would You Rather: Stars Hollow Edition
SPEAKER_00Like what's all like the the choose your own? I mean, obviously, like the the dialogue is gonna impact the way that it goes. You're gonna figure out who, you know, Rory's got all the guys that she's going after, who's she gonna end up with depending on the dialogue.
SPEAKER_03Nice. Well, hey, speaking of Rory's guys, oh wait, we're gonna say something else.
SPEAKER_02That's what I was gonna point to. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03Perfect transition point. Let's jump into our hot takes inside the fandom. So I for I mean, before we throw it to Lindsay, I mean you guys know a little bit about the show. Ben and Nick, do you guys have any hot takes?
SPEAKER_00Um, my I mean, I think I was kind of vocalizing this earlier. I I just do not care for Rory very much.
SPEAKER_06Like Gen Z and Jen Alpha agree with you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I I'm not a I'm not a huge Rory fan, and I think it's changed over the years. I think initially it was Lorelei and then just changed to to Rory. But the the character actors that I always got annoyed with, like when I was watching the episodes, I mean I was the Taylor's antics and Kirk's antics were really just I I was having fun with those this time. So those character actors were a lot of fun. I always loved Suki. So um, but uh yeah, that's that's my only like one that pops into my mind right now. And then obviously, I'm sure you've got hot take about the uh what is it? A season, I can't remember what's called the season in season in the life. What's the what's the reboot called Year in the Life?
SPEAKER_06I can't even Yeah, I do. I mean, I don't wanna I don't want to let's think it to you guys first because it might be a minute.
SPEAKER_02Um I mean I don't I don't have any hot takes again. Like we've watched like five episodes, six episodes, so it's hard for me to formulate anything like that. Um I see Michael, I thought you were gonna get into our hot a hot take of which team that Lindsay was on. We can get there. We were transitioning into that. That's what I was gonna point to. So you okay. Well, Lindsay, go ahead and talk to us about what team, what camp are you in in terms of Dean, Jess, or Logan?
SPEAKER_06There's only one correct answer.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow, okay, okay. Um I'm curious.
SPEAKER_06People who are Team Dean, I'm worried about you. Um I'm actually I'm sad for you more than I'm worried about you. I'm a little sad for you. You should probably get out a little bit more. Um uh but people who are Team Logan who hurt you, and let's talk about it because I am they're the ones I'm concerned for. Dean, Dean fans, you just need to get out a little more. I think that's mainly your issue. Jess fans, you understand. You understand. Um he he is the one that he's the only redeeming part of a year in the life, I will say. Um is the fact that he shows back up. Um basically Jess's character. So if you people who don't know, oh if if you don't know, you're kind of really lost on this episode, I'm sure, probably. But um, anyways, so Jess is Luke's nephew. He comes into town in season two because Luke's sister, like, says he's getting into trouble. I don't know what to do with him. Like, can you just help? His sounds like from what Luke tells us, his sister's a mess. She's shipping her kid to Luke to handle it, and Luke's Luke, and he just says, sure, I've got this.
SPEAKER_00Was she not in the episode that one of them that you had us watching? She was in one of the episodes that we watched. I can't remember. It was but Luke and her were having a conversation in the diner, and she's very high strung. I can't, but she was in one of the I can't remember which one it was. She was in one of the episodes.
SPEAKER_06She, yeah, she she's well cast later on, and she's a fun character, but she is definitely for Luke's steady groundedness, like he had to be that for his whole family, and and she is not that. And so he's trying to help take care of this nephew, and he's like, Okay, Lorelai's like, wait, what? Why are you bringing all this stuff? And she's like concerned about him um just agreeing to take care of a kid because she's done it, and he's like, I don't know, he just needs to get away from my crazy sister, and so then Lorelai's like involved, and Luke asks her for help, and like they meet at Rory's house, Lorelai's house. Jess and Rory meet, and Jess is bad boy brooding, kind of like too cool for school kind of guy, and he's like, Let's jump out the window, and she's like, Why would we do that? My mom and her friends are over there, they're actually nice, don't be weird, and like he's like, Okay, and then Rory's big reader, Jess's a big reader. Like, there's just like this like we get each other kind of thing, even though he's troubled.
SPEAKER_00Like, I was gonna say, I feel like Jess kind of sucks at first.
SPEAKER_06Like, he does kind of suck.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I despised him.
SPEAKER_03It's only later season that he's good.
SPEAKER_06He sucks, but it's like you can see that he has potential. He sucks because no one's really cared about him before.
Deep Cuts, Merch, And Town Lore
SPEAKER_02Ah, okay. I was just saying, yeah. You gave us a later episode with him, uh the season six one. Yeah. Yes.
SPEAKER_03So that's where Logan turns into Jess. Like Logan is the new Jess in the world.
SPEAKER_06Logan is always Logan. And um, yeah, so basically he gets he sees how special Rory is kind of like right out the gate. And that's kind of cool about him. He they date like the her senior year of high school, and then he disappears without saying anything because he finds out he meets his real dad, like all this kind of stuff. And basically the guy, you know, he's like 18 and he just kind of behaves like an 18-year-old would in a crazy situation, not well. Um, and um, he doesn't say goodbye to her, and then he shows up a year later and he's like, I love you, and she's like, What? Get out of my face, and like then eventually he kind of starts to get himself sorted out, he gets a job that he likes, he's working at this like little publisher, and he's like grounded, and he comes back because he he published a book and he just wants it, he wrote it and dedicated it to her, and he wants to share it with her, and he sees she's living with her grandma, and he's just like, something's off.
SPEAKER_03And so, like and she had left school.
Rewriting Arcs And The Revival Debate
SPEAKER_06Yes, Rory's off path for who Rory really is. And Jess is the only one that has the guts to like literally yell in her face, What are you doing, woman? Like, literally calling her out, and because everyone else, I feel like, was like, no, calm down, like we can talk about this, and like they were kind of trying tiptoeing around everything, and he was like, Why, what? Like, and he's the only one that has the guts to call her out, and like that's kind of the start of her course correction to get back on track for what she wanted to do with her life. And I think that's why Jess is the best. Wow, saved her life.
SPEAKER_02Okay, interesting. Well, so like uh has your opinion ever changed like when you were younger watching this? Did you feel the same about Jess?
SPEAKER_06There's a so the episode I did about the pilot episode on my show, like three years ago, with my dear friend uh Bethany from college, who I think you all know. Um she and I were talking about the pilot, and she's we were talking about Dean, and um she says, Oh, but we loved Dean back in the day, didn't we? I said, Bethany, we were nine. Like, and so it's just yeah, when I was little, like he was just entirely devoted to her, and like that seemed cool, but I didn't know anything. Um and I yeah, I think that was and then I kind of was into the idea of Logan until I actually like while the show was happening, until we get to the last season final episode, really, and then he just becomes entirely unworthy in my opinion.
SPEAKER_03Um but see, I thought he became unworthy in the episode you were just talking about when Jess comes back because he was just a total he he kind of comes around okay after that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so he like he he does some harder pivoting about himself, but uh and uh yeah, but then he he ruins it all at the end.
SPEAKER_02But gotcha. Can you pause real quick? Well, uh Nick, it's time for your favorite segment, I think. Yes, at least you come up with it, so I think you enjoy it. I do um was a little some would you rathers for Lindsay.
SPEAKER_00All right. Would you rather have Luke make you coffee every morning or have Suki cook you dinner every night? Dang.
SPEAKER_06I feel like if Suki cooked me dinner every night, I would like die. Um it would be delightful, but I don't think I could do that every night. So probably Luke make me coffee just so I don't die a very young death.
SPEAKER_02Interesting question. Do they establish is Luke's coffee like good, or do people come to Luke because it's like one of the only diners in town where they'd because it's good. Okay.
SPEAKER_06I don't know what her 2001 version of good coffee is, like, and also what her barometer is, but so it wasn't like a uh a pour over or anything fancy. No, he's literally pouring it out of a tin in one episode. So um it probably was fine.
SPEAKER_03Okay, I mean tin coffee, that's it.
SPEAKER_00I feel like I remember it being a part of a joke at one point. Like, isn't that a running bit that when she would go to other coffee shops that would be compared to Luke's coffee?
SPEAKER_06Well, she I just remember when we're talking about her gauging quality of coffee, she goes to a teacher meeting at Rory School, which is where she meets Max Medina, who is one of her boyfriends at one point, but this is her first meeting with him. She walks in, the first thing she does, she's late to the meeting, she pours herself a cup of coffee, and then she like has like an exclamation over how terrible the coffee is in the middle of the meeting. Um and everyone stares at her and she's like, Oh, sorry. And like, and then later they're talking, she's like, just don't ever try to make a cup of coffee ever again. It was so bad.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So nice. All right. Would you rather work for Taylor Dozy or Emily Gilmore? I think it's Dozy. I don't even know. I've I didn't heard his last name before.
SPEAKER_06Is that how Dozy Dosey?
SPEAKER_00How do they say it in the show?
SPEAKER_06Um Dosie's Market.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. That makes sense.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Um, that's probably the only yeah, I don't know that they say it super often. Um I think Emily is terrifying. Um I feel like I feel like I could um confuse Taylor enough that it would be fine. Um because I could work my way around it. So I'd probably have to pick Taylor if I had to pick.
SPEAKER_00Nice. Would you rather be stuck in a conversation with Kirk or an argument with Paris? This is my like nightmare scenario right here. Argument with Paris.
SPEAKER_06Argument with Paris. I Kirk makes Kirk a Kirk in real life would make me insane. Like on the show, he's hysterical. If I had to encounter someone socially like that, I would be so uncomfortable. Yeah. Like, I wouldn't want to be mean though, like, and so it just it would go on forever. Yep.
SPEAKER_03Has Sean Gunn ever played a different character?
SPEAKER_06Like, does he need to?
SPEAKER_00Well, that's a good question. It's hard to see him as anything else. I remember when I saw him in Guardians of the Galaxy, I'm like, oh, there's Kirk. Kirk's in space. That's fine.
SPEAKER_06That's what I said. Yeah. Nice.
SPEAKER_00Uh would you rather attend the dance marathon, which you actually had us watch that episode? Yeah, or the 24-hour movie marathon. I think I know the answer that you're gonna give on this one.
SPEAKER_06I mean, Dance Marathon's such a production, though. Like, I do love movies, but I can watch a movie kind of on my own. Like Dance Marathon's kind of an event, and I love a costume situation. So I probably do the Dance Marathon just because it sounds more interesting. I know I zigged. I'm sorry. Oh, yeah. That's okay.
SPEAKER_02That makes sense. So the 24-hour movie, the Marathon, was it all the same movie or different movies?
SPEAKER_06Uh, I don't remember there actually being one on the show, to be honest.
SPEAKER_00Uh, they had a seems like there'd be something like that on the show.
SPEAKER_06We had a movie night. Um, there's an episode where like they always show the same movie every year when they have this annual movie night. Okay. And Lorelai's like fighting with Taylor about it. And he says, fine, you pick the movie. And she gets this list of approved movies, and she's going through all of it, and she realizes it's impossible. There is only one choice. We're gonna watch this stupid movie again. And so that's yeah.
SPEAKER_02This reminds me of being on campus at Mount Vernon and the amount, like the number of times it did like Guys and Dolls as the musical or something like that. And it's because of like how hard it was for them to like pick a show that was approved on campus because there are many things it could not have.
SPEAKER_06So fun fact, I wanted our our those of us who well, you graduated the same year as me, right, Michael? I wanted our so they have this like baccalaureate ceremony, and like I was senior class president, and we get to like our little team got to pick like okay, we like these flowers, we want to sing this song. I wanted our song to be for good.
SPEAKER_02I had the same thing. I I was picking the year before you, and I asked for that.
SPEAKER_06And they said no, because we can't put wicked in there because it has to do with witches, and people will be upset. And I was like, what year is it? And that was what I said, and I was so upset, and we did some other ridiculous We ended up doing You Raise Me Up by Josh.
SPEAKER_01Well, yours is at least better.
SPEAKER_06Ours was like, You pulled me through by someone I've never heard of, and like I was like, You raise me up, you pull me through.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Basically, I think one of the choir kids, whoever had the solo, did it. I think it was I don't even know. Um I won't say. Yeah, that's a good idea. Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, so anyways, yeah, but I was like that's so that's so funny that you guys tried to pick the same thing and got also got shot down.
SPEAKER_00Last would you rather question. Would you rather have Lorelai as your mom or Emily as your mom? That's that's really tough. Would you take the money?
SPEAKER_06That's the question of the show, though, isn't it? Like it's kind of the that's kind of the question of which way works, like which way is best. And I don't know that I have an answer. Um probably I I my personality could probably make it work with an Emily a little more. I think the instability of Lorelai would stress me out. Um But uh yeah, I don't know that there's like a I don't know that anyone gets out unscathed here. Like in either scenario.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, that brings us into our actual like discussion questions. I'm gonna start us off with the question of talk to us about your shirt, Babette Ate Oatmeal. I'm assuming it goes along with the show.
Character Growth And What Changes Today
SPEAKER_06It does. Yeah, it's a deep cut. Um so there is an episode, Back to Kirk, um, where he reads something about someone online who in another small town was selling t-shirts with topical headlines of things that happened around town. And nothing until the very first day that Kirk is gonna do his idea, nothing really happened. And so he his very first shirt is Beba Ate Oatmeal. Okay, thanks.
SPEAKER_04He's a very deep cut.
SPEAKER_06But it's if you know, you know. And it's like, yeah, and then he has some other ones where they have this like uh Edgar Allan Poe convention in town, and he says faux pose these like guys that were supposed to both do the same poem like were arguing. Oh my god. But this was the very first shirt, and so like I when I knew we were gonna do this, I was like, I think I need to find a Babette oatmeal shirt, and it was like ten dollars. And I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna do that.
SPEAKER_03Oh, nice, heck yeah, sweet. Love that. Well, Nick, do you wanna do you wanna we can just go out around the circle and really do and ask a question?
SPEAKER_00Um, if you could rewrite one storyline or relationship arc, what would you change? First would it be a Rory storyline or a Lorelei storyline or somebody else's story? Or a Kirk storyline?
SPEAKER_06I think I would give us the gratification of Rory getting together with Jess.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_06But like I yeah, I think I would I think it would let us be happy. Um but the rest of it, I think I'd again I said maybe this was off recording, I don't know, but uh I would definitely just delete a year in the life because it was I don't know. There's there's backstory to this. So this is behind the curtain, a little bit nerdy for sure.
SPEAKER_01That's okay, that's what we're here for. Yeah, I know. Look who you're talking to.
SPEAKER_06It's like I think it's like season four or five. So it's a lot of writing, it's a lot of work. We've established how much longer the scripts were, all those kinds of things. Amy Sherman Paladino asks for more writing staff because the show is picking up steam. Like the there's this is back in the day when there were a lot of episodes in a season, and she's like burning out and she's asking for more writing staff, and they said, No, you need to keep doing it. No, you need and she left her own show.
SPEAKER_05Wow.
SPEAKER_06Then they did what they would have had to do, what she was asking them to do was hire all the writers to replace her.
SPEAKER_03Yep. Dang.
SPEAKER_06And so the show ends not the way she wanted it to end from the start. So she never came back, not for the original series.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say, she did a year in the life as well.
SPEAKER_06She wrote, yes. However, it's a decade later. Yeah, the characters are that age, that much time has passed. We're not writing it as if we just picked up like in the same time period. Right. And she wrote the ending she would have written for the original series in a year and a life, basically undoing all of the character development that happened in the last two seasons of the show. Like, and some of it was bad. Like, like suddenly Luke was an idiot, like, and like Emily and Lorelai don't know how to get along. And Lorelai was being like really childlike again around her parents and just like acting like a brat when she'd kind of learned to like find some rhythm with them by the end of the show. They weren't perfect, but like they had grown into things a little bit. And she trolled us all and wrote, she like basically got the Netflix funding to throw a really expensive creative fit that did not make sense 10 years later and was upsetting. The ending is just like ugh.
SPEAKER_03I I do have I have it is a huge pet peeve of mine when character arcs are undone. Yeah. Can I give you guys a recent example that is totally off topic? Is it Star Wars? Well, okay. No, no, no, I'm gonna I'm gonna ignore that. Uh that would take us down too big of a rabbit hole. Uh WandaVision and the new Doctor, the most recent Doctor Strange. Yeah, uh Multiverse of Madness. Wanda's character arc completely undone.
SPEAKER_06100% agree.
SPEAKER_03Completely. So I so what you're saying right now, I'm feeling the pain of that.
SPEAKER_06No, it's 100% like that. I I didn't even finish that movie, Michael, because I like we started off and that was immediately I was like, what just happened? We just undid that whole amazing show we just watched. Like, why would you do that? Yeah and I'm not interested.
SPEAKER_00This guy gets too down in the rabbit hole. It was all fake, though. That was the whole entire point. That was why she ended up the way that she was in Multiverse of Madness.
SPEAKER_03Uh okay. So again, that's the last thing you're gonna say, and then I'm gonna ask a new question. The the the con the context of the show, you're correct, it is fake. She created with her mind with the cast magic. But her development as a character was that was completely real.
SPEAKER_06Her emotional development too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. Well, but couldn't discovering that it was fake eras all that hypothetically.
SPEAKER_03She's a r she no.
SPEAKER_06Okay, the show where she was like aware of it at the end, where like it was established that Wanda has learned from what she did. Okay, so we're on the same page here, Michael.
SPEAKER_00I'm with you and I think I I mean it made sense to me. I guess I need to go back and re-watch this.
SPEAKER_06Was it a good movie, though? Um Okay, there we go.
SPEAKER_00There haven't been a lot of hits with Marvel lately to be that.
SPEAKER_06That's a different question entirely.
SPEAKER_02All right, Michael, get us back into Gilmore Girls.
SPEAKER_03We gotta get back. We gotta all right. All right, uh, let's see. If you could spend an entire day with any character, who would it be and why? And what would you do?
What’s Next For The Fandom
SPEAKER_06This is a really tough question. I would either it would probably be I they're also really strange. Um, I think maybe I'd pick Luke and he could like help me fix things on my house slash teach me how to fix them. Um that feels like the thing I would probably enjoy the most because everybody else, I'm like a whole day. Maybe not maybe an afternoon. I don't know. A whole day's a lot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I can see that for sure. Okay, well, speaking of just Stars Hollow in general, like w it if you could add a shop or something to the town, which you know, idyllic little town with just like very quaint things, is it what what do you feel like it's missing?
SPEAKER_06Like that, like I don't know. Don't live in Mount Vernon or anything. Um I was thinking about this question because you did send me this ahead of time, and I don't totally know and the only thing I can think of is my based on my current recent hobby. Uh they need a card shop.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Board game, card game store.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, they need a hobby shop.
SPEAKER_03So great. You know, I will say a little bit more. Kirk would own it. Many hobby shops do have Lego sets in them. So I'm I'm in for the hobby shop. Yeah, where would you get your Lego in Star's Hollow?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03Wow, there we go.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Kirk's hobbies and things. Yeah, amazing. Love it. Nice. Um, so you you hit on this sort of, but what character do you think experienced the most growth in the series?
SPEAKER_06They all do a lot, really. Um, I mean, I think it's easy to say Rory because she starts as like a teenager and she's kind of an adult, but I don't actually know that that's true. I think Lorelai has the biggest like like brain transformation in terms of like there's even an episode when she realizes like, do I actually like or dislike the things I like, or was I just trying to be a contrarian with my mom? Like, there's a whole episode about that. Um, and so I think it's Lorelei because I think she she kind of grows, but I would say it's a tie between Lorelei and Emily because there's a lot of moving towards that happens from both of them. Um, I think by the end of the show that um definitely isn't there in season one for sure.
SPEAKER_02Good answer.
Wrap-Up, Plugs, And Next Episode
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that makes sense. Um honestly, the rest of my questions I had we kind of already answered. Like, so my next one was gonna be what's your dream job? But I feel like the the hobbies and things shop would be kind of That's your dream job. Well, in Star is Hollow. In Star Hollow.
SPEAKER_06Um I would probably I might run the inn. Okay. Or work work at Luke's or something. Like I'd probably I'd probably be like, yeah, I'd probably run the in like Lorelei does. That sounds the most interesting. Get to meet all people from out of town.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, okay. Well, to get a little also a little deep, um, do you feel like watching this show as long young as you did set up any unrealistic expectations in terms of like your relationship with your mother, your relationship with boys, anything like that?
SPEAKER_06Um, I think if anything, it did the opposite. It kind of taught me things are messy and complicated, and um that doesn't mean that they're bad. Okay. Um, because no one in this show, I think what Amy Sherman Paladino does in all of her stuff is like all the characters are kind of worthwhile. Like they're they're worthy people, but they're also very flawed. Um, and I think she wrote these characters in a way that was like sometimes things don't work out, and that's okay, and that doesn't mean that it wasn't that it was bad that it happened. Like Lorelei has some of those boyfriends where you're like, that really went south, but like it was it was fun and good for her in certain ways while it was happening and those kinds of things. And so I feel like if anything, this show is so uh messy that it maybe taught me to expect expect messes.
SPEAKER_00Hey, yeah, that's kind of legit. Nice. So I guess I didn't I didn't write this question down, but I was just thinking about this because I didn't realize the the sh uh Amy Sherman Paladino left her own show. And it sounds like you have uh high opinions of the seasons that came after she she left. So do you feel like the the writing was still as good?
SPEAKER_06It was no um there but like I guess my thing is more I wish I was excited that she was writing the new show because she's a really good writer, obviously. But I wish she wouldn't have, you know, to our earlier point, undone the character development. Because like reality was what it was. Like let's not be weird and act like everyone regressed. Like that doesn't totally make sense. Um so I don't think the right there is there's like one story arc that's just like why? Why did we have to do that? That was painful and terrible.
SPEAKER_00See, and it's can I be real here? Like, I feel like TV shows are like that because all TV shows have like a a cycle to them in a sense. Like eventually you come back around to where things were kind of at the be at the beginning in some level. Like I'm thinking about some of my favorite sitcoms, definitely do that. I mean, how I met your mother was like that, Scrubs was like that. There's so many like sitcoms where it comes back around, and things that were true at the beginning are true once again at the end.
SPEAKER_06Do you feel like though? So Parks and Rec. Think about season one, Leslie. Nope. Painful, awkward, not self-confident, lonely, kind of sad, but that's not true at the end.
SPEAKER_00I won't say all shows. How about that? But I will say that.
SPEAKER_06I think the richness of yeah, I will I will say I I hear what you're saying. Like, there are some things that are true. Like, I think those are like kind of truisms of the world. Like, I I think that the the character development most of the time, like, because these are these are written Amy Sherman Paladino writes characters in a way that I feel like is a little more complex and closer to like feeling like real people. And it would be weird if like for a decade, I mean, I haven't seen two of you in like a decade, if you all went through everything you went through, but then tonight we met and you were exactly who you were 10 years, like that'd be weird. We'd be like, What? Ben be like, what is going on? What happened? Like, why are you acting like a 22-year-old crazy person? Like, I don't know. Like, that would be weird. And I think that's what felt weird about it.
SPEAKER_00So, like, there just were I think the the part that I'm like the most kind of resonates in that way for me is the fact, like, probably the part I mean, we haven't talked about it all, it is a spoiler in some ways, but the fact that Rory's pregnant at the very end, and that's kind of like a scene.
SPEAKER_06I don't have the issue with that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's not the issue, it's the the stuff that comes before that.
SPEAKER_06We could have gotten there, but the tone around Rory being pregnant, I'm like, she's in her thirties. Yeah, it's not really a situation, guys. Like it's Different, she's an adult, yeah. Like that's true, but she's painting it in this way that it's like supposed to be this like same situation as like a 16-year-old finding out, and like the character development, like and all the just silliness and like illogicalness of the scenarios that they're bumping up against somehow 10 years later, still is like like why would Lorelite and Luke have not talked about whether or not they want to have kids for 10 years? That makes no sense.
SPEAKER_03But that does sound like something that would happen in season six, you know, yeah, like kind of to what the point you were making earlier, like her trying to recreate this, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, as they were kind of in that timeline, but like it just she she ran with what she wanted to tell ten years later rather than coming up with a new interesting continuation because she wanted to tell the story she wanted to tell.
SPEAKER_03And like you know what? Since I have not seen the series, I'm gonna watch through season five. I'm gonna jump to Yeah, you report back. You report back and let's go.
SPEAKER_00No, I was just thinking do you have any ill will towards Amy Sherman Paladino, or is it like have you forgiven her at this point?
SPEAKER_06No, no, not yet, because here's the thing, guys. This is my favorite show since I was 10 years old. It finally got a revival when I was in my 20s in grad school, stressed out of my mind. I got up at 6 a.m. on Thanksgiving Day to watch it so that I could watch it before my family interrupted everything.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And I was so disappointed.
SPEAKER_03Dang. See, I'm thinking about so my favorite dramedy, it's not even, it's more of a drama, uh, from that era was Smallville. I think I've told you guys that, and we'll talk about that in our Superman episode. But I can imagine, and actually, there was a very short reboot of Smallville um in the Crisis on Infinance Earth episode that was in the um the CW crossover that they came out a few years back, but they recast uh the original cast emerged from Smallville, and it's like a 10-minute, maybe even less than 10-minute segment. And I was so excited for that, and it it it was a big payoff. It was like really well done, like it was perfect. So I can imagine that was just a small taste.
SPEAKER_06You were hyped for that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I can imagine an entire like series or whatever reboot, not even reboot, but continuation. I can see how like you have that love as a kid, and you're just like, oh my gosh, this is coming, and then you, you know, it's it's a crash and burn.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and they even did so they were doing a lot of marketing for this reboot. Like they did this thing where there was like Luke's Diner Day at all these coffee shops across the country, and they like gave them signs and everyone wore flannel, and like there were branded coffee sleeves. I got up, I had to go to work at 7.45, guys. I got up at like 5:30 so that I could go to the nearest coffee shop in Kansas City and get the little sleeve that I still have that has Luke's Diner on it and drink my black coffee just from this stupid little branded cup, and then I went home and watched an episode of Gilmore Girls before I went to work. So, like, this was my level of hype and excitement about it. Like, and I was like, Oh no. And Matt even had, I mean, he's seen it like so many times with me, and he was like, I think he tweeted, Did Amy Sherman Paladino just troll her entire fan base? Like, what? I mean, he I I didn't have to argue him into that. We finished it and we were like, What just happened? Like, genuinely.
SPEAKER_00I think it's so hard. Like, this is something that I don't think we've touched on on the podcast, but I think expectation when it comes to those sorts of things is difficult.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, um, it's almost it can be impossible to meet. And actually, I think I like your attitude, Nick. You just love when something continues for the sake of it being, you know, going on, like especially with the Star Wars, you know, like um, you know, the most recent shows that are coming out, you're just excited that the fandom is continuing. Whereas I think some like, well, I'll speak for myself.
SPEAKER_00Everybody on some level. Like, I mean, there's disappointments there, absolutely, but yeah, it is so hard. Like the expectation is always gonna be difficult. And it's it's I feel like so many times it doesn't live up to what you want it to be in your mind. And one of my favorite fandoms, which we need to do an episode on soon, that was how I met your mother for me. I remember feeling that way, but over the course of time, think like I've I've come to appreciate the the art more than I did at the time because I was just mad at the time.
SPEAKER_06I think for me, what was hard about it, because I generally am like that, like when it comes to like a superhero movie, like I like Spider-Man, I like Superman, and I was actually talking about this on the most recent episode of my podcast when we did the Superman one. Like it's impossible to go to these things without expectations. Um, but with this one, I I'm I'm usually kind of like, yeah, I'm happy when there's there's content. Um, but this felt like not true to the characters that we had like come to love and like who they're supposed to be like supposed to be to each other. Like it felt like like everyone regressed, and the whole show, like the original show was everyone kind of progressing, maybe slowly, maybe in a not traditionally linear linear fashion, but like we were trying to be better people as we were moving forward, and it felt like we unlearned those lessons, and that just felt like kind of unfair to them in that way. And I think that's why I was like frustrated.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00I've got one more uh question I think ties into kind of what we're talking about right now, and that is if the show were made today, so not necessarily that they were continuing it, or maybe if the show started brand new, what would be the most different thing? What do you think would change the most in the show?
SPEAKER_06Um I think I think there'd be more diversity in the casting for sure. I think um the um it's it's a pretty pretty white show.
SPEAKER_03Yep. I was gonna say this is not a white podcast. Between Ben and I.
SPEAKER_02Hey, that's 50% well 75 with a minority female if we got good representation.
SPEAKER_03We we have amazing representation here.
SPEAKER_06Your numbers are pretty good, guys. Um no, but like uh I I think that would be the biggest difference. I think um I think we would have to have more diverse main characters baked in with this family because I don't know that there's a lot of and nor necessarily sh I I think that there's I think we've done enough centering of like whiteness in a lot of ways, like because we're kind of like, oh poor Rory, she might not get into Yale. Like okay. Um so I mean it's not to say that that's not a struggle for her from her perspective, but like I think we just live in a world where they're like the stakes feel higher, like there's a lot more people really suffering and struggling, and I think it would be hard to be super empathetic to someone's position like that if it were made today. Like and that's not to say that I don't like Rory because I I don't totally dislike her, but I just think that that would have to be different for sure.
SPEAKER_02Well, not that we we could keep keep going, even about a show that I don't know a ton about, but for the sake of time, like uh let's let's close it with this. Like we talked a little bit about there were rumors that there were gonna be more episodes. If they were still written by Amy Sherman Paladino, would you still find yourself watching them?
SPEAKER_06Oh, I would give it a shot for sure. Like, I'm not yeah, I'm um I love these characters too much to not see what what she's up to. Um, I may only watch it once, okay, which is what happened with a year in the life. I was like, never again. Um but yeah, I would definitely see what see what happens for sure.
SPEAKER_03Nice, yeah, absolutely. So we always close with what's the next big thing in the Gilmore Gilmore verse uh in the fandom. I have something actually. Uh but before I I say what my thing is, do you do you know of anything, Lindsay coming up?
SPEAKER_02Wait, are you making a big announcement that you are funding the next season of Gilmore Girls?
SPEAKER_06While we were on here, when I announced it was on Kickstarter, Michael funded the new documentary. Um, no, I think that's what's happening, though. I mean, they're celebrating, there's there's a lot of like uh Warner Brothers like giveaways and things happening right now, kind of in honor of the 25th anniversary, so a lot of social media stuff happening. Um uh Lauren uh Graham got her uh Hollywood star of fame, which is really cool. Um, and uh she made a joke about the boyfriends there as well. She was like, listen, I know we're all team Jess, but like uh Zucry's here and uh you know he uh the guy who plays Jess was not, I can't think of his name right now. Uh Milo Ventamilia. Milo Ventamilia was not there. She's like, Milo, anyone? No. Um she's like Padelecki, sorry, today Logan wins. She's like, it's an ongoing tally, but today Logan wins. Oh, okay. Um so that was just kind of funny. Um, but yeah, so that happened recently, the 25th anniversary, and then they are coming out with this sometime at some point on some platform, depending on who funds it and who wins. Uh this Gilmore Girls documentary, which sounds like Lauren Graham is not involved in. I haven't really read up on it. I just saw some clickbait headlines and was like, I'll save that for later. Um but yeah, that's the the best I am aware of that's happening. So officially.
SPEAKER_00Very cool. Michael, what'd you find?
SPEAKER_03All right. Stars Hollow is coming to Johnstown, Ohio. What when? Join us November 15th for a cozy evening filled with crafts, coffee, dinner at the Dragonfly Inn, and a Gilmore Girls episode screening by the gazebo.
SPEAKER_05Let's go.
SPEAKER_03Tickets unopposed. Tickets are limited and include all activities, plus a tote, a mug, and a matchbook to take home.
SPEAKER_06Listen, I need to I need the 15th. Send me that link, please.
SPEAKER_03I have a screenshot from Facebook. I'll send it to you. Thank you. Appreciate it. How did you end up with it? Uh Dana saw it. Okay, yeah. Uh Dana took a screenshot and sent it to me because she knew about it again about the podcast.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yeah. Love it. Uh awesome. Well, thank you so much, Lindsay. Yeah, Lindsay. Thank you for being here. Thoroughly enjoyed it. And again, happy to so happy to talk about something again, so such little exposure for me, and it's been a blast.
SPEAKER_06So thanks for having me, guys. Honestly, like good on y'all for like talking about a show around females like on a podcast hosted by dudes. Like, I mean, that's not common. So, like, this was fun, and I appreciate you guys like investing in the homework and like coming along for this ride to Starz Hollow, and thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Awesome. Yeah, so go check out Lindsay's podcast, Epilogues and Epiphanies, uh, also streaming pretty much everywhere. Um, I know she'd super appreciate it, especially if you liked some of the deeper insights that she had here. Um, so Nick, I why don't you tell us what's coming up next?
SPEAKER_00I am very excited because we are so close to the final season of Stranger Things. And in honor of that, we're gonna be talking Stranger Things with uh I can't. Isaiah. Isaiah. So this is gonna be awesome. I'm so hyped to talk about it, and I can't wait for the final season to come out um and kind of see where things have have are gonna land, I guess, with everything. I think the sad part is because it's been so long since the the previous season, I think some of the hype's worn off, but I think it'll it'll come back here. Like next month, you're gonna start to hear everything Stranger Things and people are gonna get excited again, and it's gonna be awesome.
SPEAKER_03So I did buy Stranger Things themed cookies today for us to eat during the podcast. So there's already some hype gone. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Great. Well, thank you guys for listening so much. Thanks again, Lindsay. Yeah, thank you, Lindsay. We'll see you guys next time. Well, we hope you enjoyed hearing about today's fandom. Thanks for joining us. Give us a follow on Instagram or threads at FOF.pod to stay up to date with all the latest, and check out the video version on YouTube at fandomoffandoms. Have a fandom that you want us to dive into? Send us an email at fandomofpodcast at gmail.com. Until our next adventure, I keep being passionate, I keep being curious, and keep being a fan.
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