Holy Fandom, Batman!

Batman is everywhere, but somehow he is still underrated in the one place that matters: the reasons we personally keep coming back. We dig into the Batman timeline from classic comic origins to the modern era of dark, grounded films, and we talk through the versions that shaped us first, especially Batman: The Animated Series and the wave of 90s movies and merch that turned every Batmobile into a must-have toy.

From there, we get practical. If Batman feels too big to “start,” we lay out a real starter pack with accessible entry points across live-action and animation, plus why your ideal Batman depends on tone: camp, noir, detective mystery, or full-on gritty realism. 

If you love Batman movies, DC Comics, Gotham City lore, and the never-ending debate over the best on-screen Batman, this one is for you. Subscribe, share with a fellow Bat-fan, and leave a review, then tell us your definitive Batman and your go-to starting point.

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Transcript

Welcome Back And Batman Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:01

All right, gentlemen. Welcome back to episode 23. That is right. That is right. Yep. So how we doing, guys?

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Good. Yeah. I'm really enjoying the new setup that we got going on over here. So Ben uh Ben changed it up on us a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

So well, it was just gonna be the three of us, which we'll get to in a minute, but I figured why not? Well change it up a little bit because otherwise it was Michael and I on one side of the table and you and the other, and it just felt a little like we were questioning you.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Yeah, which we we normally are. We do question you a lot on stuff. That's true. It's fair. Nick, what have you been up to?

SPEAKER_03 0:37

Um, you know, we're just in uh in the mode of trying to get the house ready to sell and um moving stuff over to the new house, um doing a lot of getting a lot of work done. We've had somebody out there working on our house doing just a bunch of odd jobs. Excuse me. Um that was unprofessional there.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

But uh also we're not talking about Bond.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

We're not. Odd jobs. Odd job. See, I I missed it. I wasn't thank you. Um no, but that's been mostly what I've been up to. I went to the Blue Jackets game last night and was uh infuriated by their their loss. But um, you know, if we're if we're lucky, they're still gonna make the playoffs.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

So we should do a blue jackets episode. That'd be fun. Yeah. I would love to. Yeah, Ben, what have you been up to?

SPEAKER_01 1:21

We should go to uh a blue jackets game again like we did last year. That was very enjoyable. But I don't run out of games, so um not a lot going on for me. It feels like I've been super busy, but I think it's just been all work, you know. Um and then uh regular things in the evening, but yeah. Just a lot of work. How about you, Michael? Well, you said you had a story, yeah. I do have a story.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

So today I took the baby out, and our mission this morning was to find me a Batman t-shirt for our episode today. Uh which I guess I just gave it away. We're talking about Batman today. Yes. And uh in case any video watchers couldn't tell already. Yeah, yeah. Uh anyway, went to some stores, found absolutely nothing, but I found the Star Wars t-shirt. So I bought this and I told my wife, all right, I'm just gonna wear that tonight. So I'm wearing a Star Wars t-shirt, but it's it, you know. But I do have my Batman koozie. There you go. So I'm I'm rapping.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

Yeah, I uh I sadly have gotten too fat for all of my my Batman shirts and otherwise. So yeah, need to go and buy some more too, you know? But I I'm really I'm sad that you couldn't find a Batman shirt.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

I know, you would think they'd be all over the place, but yeah, nothing. Surprising. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

It's just not as not as big of a there's not a lot of Batman fans, I guess. So we'll see. Maybe this this episode is just gonna crash and burn because uh is Batman irrelevant now?

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Is that what the No, no, I think this episode's gonna change the world. It's gonna read my word. Yeah, people's love. So well, why don't you kick off the intro?

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Sure, let's do it. Even some special music. Hello and welcome to Fandom of Fandoms, the show where every single episode we are diving into the world that fans love the

Batman Basics And Ground Rules

SPEAKER_03 3:00

most. And this week I can't believe it's taken us this long to get here, but we all love Batman so much, and we're gonna be talking Batman. This is a big thing for us uh to take on because we're kind of This is a huge deal. We the only limitation that we made was that we're going to avoid the the bat the Dark Knight trilogy, and that's because in our next episode we're gonna focus in on Christopher Nolan, so we wanted to save that for correct for that episode. But um, everything else is fair game, and I feel like that's a lot of of content that we could potentially uh talk about.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

So yeah, this is gonna be a two-hour episode for give everyone. I'm not ready for that.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

It could be, but here's here's the thing. I think it's fair to say that um we definitely could revisit at some point. Like we we'll probably just scratch the surface and then come back and and hit some stuff later. But um Yeah, I think so. Yeah, no, I just can't believe that we took this long to talk about. This is only the second superhero episode that we're thinking. That's again surprising.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Wow, really? I think Spider-Man and now Batman, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Oh my gosh. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Yeah. We need more uh comic book experts, I think.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Yeah, that's the yeah, that's the real problem, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

So if you're a comic book expert and you want to come talk with us, let us know.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Yes, yeah, no, we'd love to have, yeah, whoever. But well, why don't I give a quick overview? I mean, I'm assuming most people know Batman, but if you don't, uh so Batman first appeared in Detective Comics number 27 in 1939. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, he was created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger. See, now a couple years ago, you would have just had Bob Kane, but now the whole thing with Bill Finger, maybe we talk about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Did you well, we can talk about it later.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Yeah, yeah. So Kane got most of the early credit, but uh Finger actually shaped much of what we recognize today. So Gotham City, the darker tone, you know, key elements of Batman's design, like the Cape and Cow and whatnot. Um so, you know, from the start, Batman, aka Bruce Wayne, was different from other heroes, you know, a detective first, um, inspired by a lot of uh popular characters, like kind of a mixture of Zorro and Sherlock Holmes is what some people say. Um, but then in the 40s, you know, it came a little darker, a little more crime focused. Um 50s and 60s, kind of came into like a campy sort of like I don't know, lighter tone, like more fantastical. Yeah. And then since then, it I feel like he shifted, you know, quite a bit over the years. So kind of going in and out of campy versus

Our First Batman Memories

SPEAKER_00 5:30

you know, dark. And well, I'm sure we'll talk about all that. But why don't we start with kind of our backgrounds? Ben, do you want to go first? What's your background with Batman?

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Yeah, honestly, like the movies have been the biggest thing for me. Um, I grew up on them, especially like even the original one, and then we'll get in the um the original one from the 60s or sorry, sorry, uh the Michael Keaton Batman. I consider that the original. I do too. But there is a movie. Yeah, but yeah, but uh the Michael Keaton Batmans, and then um I again we we've talked about this a little bit, and I'm sure it will be a hot take later, but the Batman Forever's and good old George Clooney, I those movies, like I watched a ton. So those um, yeah, and then those were like my big Batman era, but since you know, I I keep up on most of what's been going on. I'd say probably the comic that series that I read was Court of the Owls. So yeah, uh that's probably the only one that I can like recall offhand, like reading the whole way through. I've probably picked up random ones here and there, but yeah. Uh what about you, Nick?

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Uh yeah, uh that was so Batman was the earliest uh you know, the the animated series from the the 90s is probably that and Scooby-Doo are the two like nice shows that I can remember watching the the earliest on. In fact, I had a specially made so this is like a tie-in with Scooby-Doo, but there was a Batman Scooby-Doo crossover.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Yeah, there are there are actually quite a few. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

Yeah. I I had one in particular, I can't remember what the what the mystery was that they were solving, but um they uh yeah, I had a a specially made like cardboard cover for this episode that we had recorded at one point when it was on TV or something like that. So um just kind of shows my love for both of those shows from when I was I would probably three, four, like really young to be like when you go back and you watch the animated series and kind of like the darker elements and tones. I was like, man, I was watching this when I was like four, five.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

But it's that was um, you know, I I've got some there's probably some video home video of me like walking around acting like I'm Batman. Um I uh had Batman pajamas that I wore. Um there's a picture of me at my my grandma's house. I think I was Batman and then her dog was Robin or something. Something there was somewhere in there was was somewhere. Just lots of little things. There's uh foggy memories, I guess, of uh my time with Batman as a young child. But um yeah, just I it's it's the first superhero that I was ever into. Um really the only one for the longest time, like up until like as as I got into the teenage years and some of those more the superhero movies started coming out. I mean, Batman was the first one that I was really into. So yeah, Michael, what about you, man?

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Yeah, yeah. Um, well, just to go back for a second here, when they would do a Scooby-Doo and Batman crossover, it would be Adam West and Burt Ward from the original Batman that would voice the characters. So it did feel like a true, a true crossover.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

But yeah, to start I think the one that I had was like the actual like the Hanna Barbera episode. It would have been like it would have been recorded probably in the 70s, you know.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Yeah, very cool. Yeah, well, for me, my background. I mean, so just to start off, Batman is my favorite superhero, always has been. Uh actually really similar to you, Nick. Like starting off with the 90s animated series, I think that was probably my first exposure. Um, and then you know, just getting into the toys and like all the merch. I mean, a little bit later in the episode, we're gonna talk about like some of the the merchandise that Nick and I brought. Um, Ben didn't venture to his parents' basement to get his stuff, so um but yeah, but just being super into it and probably similar. Like I really didn't I don't remember being into other superheroes, maybe Superman, but other superheroes until like the early 2000s when like the Spider-Man movies started coming out, the X-Men movies, then I kind of started branching out. But for a lot of the 90s, it really was just Batman. I mean, that was like my main go-to, like favorite hero. Um, you know, I loved the Batman 89 movies, Batman Robin, Batman Forever. I had no idea they were bad when I was growing up. I just didn't know that because I was too young to really realize that they were terrible. Yeah, it was just a cool Batman movie, like the Batman credit card, or and like I was like, I want one of those, you know. So I had no idea they were terrible. I've I've watched them since as an adult, and I could barely get through them.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

I think only one of them is like truly terrible. Like the other ones are are not as bad. Like, I mean, yeah, is it Batman? Is that the whichever one has uh Mr. Freeze? Yeah, of course there.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Like that's the only one that I think of, and I'm like and Tommy Lee Jones is Harvey Dent, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

Well, that was the one before that. That was Batman Forever, which I don't I like Batman Forever.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

Because Batman Forever was uh uh Jim Carrey and Tommy Lee Jones.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

I mean Jim Carrey, iconic.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Yes, as always.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

But uh gosh. But anyway, but that's my background.

SPEAKER_03 10:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

So it's fair to say that we all have like a pretty, pretty shared like early kid, you know, young kids being into the into the animated series. Ben, what is you so do you have a lot of the the stuff laying around at your house? Like if you would went to your your parents' house, would you have other Yeah, we were we were talking about I'm I might have had this bat wing.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

You had like a bat boat or something earlier too that I'm pretty sure I had. I recognize the the Robin Hood Batman. Like I had a I had a good amount of these. Yeah. Yeah. And again, had I planned in advance, I could have made a trip down to my parents,

Why Batman Stands Out

SPEAKER_01 11:10

but there's plenty I need to get from there, I know. Yeah, man. So I mean, okay, for each of us, what do you feel like it is that keeps us coming back to Batman in particular? What draws you to him over other superheroes?

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yeah, I mean, I can I can jump in first. I think a big part of it is like the childhood attachment that I had. Like, I just loved him so much as a kid that like he he he became ingrained as my favorite superhero so early on. That's probably a big part of it. But then also just from like a character standpoint. I mean, I know this is cliche, everyone says this, but you know, he's he is a regular guy. Yeah. Um you know billionaire. So not quite a regular guy. But there are there are moments where he's not a billionaire. He's got a few, you know, a few moments like that. Um, and so yeah, I think as a character, just like relatable. I think he's mysterious, you know, like very dark and brooding and kind of in the shadows. And like I I think I'm drawn to that, you know, just uh character-wise. Um obviously his gadgets are just amazing, like all the various, um, you know, even down to the bat repellent or the uh I'm sorry, the shark repellent. Shark repellent. Um even down to that, it's great. So anyway, um, I think that's it for me, like kind of why I keep coming back. But but again, a big part of it is probably tied to like that childhood love and you know the nostalgia there, and um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

Anyway, I was I was thinking quite a bit about this, like on the w on the drive over. How would I answer this question? And I think the biggest thing that that stands out to me that makes Batman different, um, and and kind of keeps me wanting to come back to him is really just uh it's a it's a simpler era of like Batman goes and he beats up the bad guys and that's what he does. And I didn't feel like there were like there was a depth of storytelling, but it was a simple depth, you know. There was just the uh I didn't get into later on um really understanding like some of the the undertones of Batman until it started becoming more to the to the forefront. But like at the start it was just like, hey, you know, there's here's here's this guy that Batman's gonna stop. And I I appreciated the the characters and kind of like the uniqueness of of uh the the bad guys that were there, and to me, like because I wasn't into other superheroes beforehand, I didn't have anything that I was like comparing him against. Like he was just the first one that I uh knew and was familiar with. Um but I I don't know, I just I think and I maybe you guys will disagree with me, but I I just think that there is a a simplistic nature to the Batman storytelling that kind of goes back to a um you know just a less complex time. And I guess that's the nostalgia speaking a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

But sure. Absolutely. Yeah, for me, I think that it's I mean, we've talked about uh for sure. I do appreciate the fact that he is a quote unquote normal human in terms of you know no powers or anything like that. Um yeah, we can go he's a billionaire, but at the end of the day, he chose to use his billions of dollars to fight crime, so that's still a pretty interesting thing. And we can there's like lots of different motivations for different Batmen as to why they do it, etc. But uh like you know, that's that's a huge part of it. And I've come to appreciate for sure the range that we get from Batman. Like it's it's a wide range from the campy Adam West and Batman Forever to the like super dark and serious, like the Dark Knight trilogy to Matt Reeves' late latest one, like all those, like it gets super dark and deep and like you you get a lot of different versions of Batman. And so I've I've come to appreciate that, like finding which balance I like or whatever, but like everyone has their own taste for sure. But yeah, I I I appreciate that. There's a lot of different ways you can take the character.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

I think it's fair to say that there's because there's been so many different iterations, is that when he has changed throughout the years, there's not another character, another superhero that I can think of that's had as many of those eras. Yeah, absolutely. But I don't know, they they've all kind of gone like they've stayed a little bit more solid and true to one tone throughout the years, whereas you're right, Batman has kind of like jumped around a little bit and gone through those different iterations.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Producer Michael, would you look up is Batman the like if we had the most uh on-screen iterations of Batman in terms of like live action actors?

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Oh, I bet you that's probably true.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Yeah, because I mean we've had what three Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

Yeah, there's been so many Batman.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Um there've been there have been a good five or six at least Supermen, but that's true.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Yeah, Superman has had Superman.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Superman might be up there. Yeah. So um yes, Batman has argued arguably had the most on-screen narrations of any live action superhero in history. Over the past eight decades, at least nine to twelve actors have officially portrayed Bruce Wayne Batman in live action series, television, etc. Okay. Um, and then yeah, it obviously gives a breakdown. So yeah, that's that's actually a good point. I didn't really think about that. Yeah. But I mean, that just speaks to the character's popularity, and I mean, obviously they wouldn't, you know, keep making the movies if it didn't make money.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Uh okay. Well, uh Michael, you put this question down. So I like how instead of asking for a definitive Batman, you ask who your definitive Alfred is.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

It's a fair question. You know, I'm gonna say, well, I'll answer the question, but I do think that Alfred does like influence Batman in a sense. He does, absolutely. To a great extent. Um, and partly I just was curious because I was thinking about all the different Alfred's. But um, I think for me, and again, we're not getting the Dark Knight children Dark Knight trilogy, but I think Michael Cain's uh iteration of Alfred. Um and maybe that's just because I love Michael Cain so much, and he's just I mean Muppet Christmas Carol for Pete's sake. But um, so it could be just like the actor himself. Um, but I do think his you know, care for Bruce Wayne, like, you know, and again, ah crap. I'm trying not to get into the to it too much, but let me say one thing. Uh, in the third film, in The Dark Knight Rises, I mean, my wife and I were bawling when he says goodbye to Bruce, and it's just like because you just really feel like his like deep like care for him. So anyway, that's why I love Michael Cain's version. But uh, what about you guys?

SPEAKER_03 17:30

Um, see, I can't I can't take the same one as you. I gotta I gotta change it up. I really um I can't even think of the the guy's name. Who plays it in in the uh Batman from the 89? Um I can't think of his name.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

I can't remember his name either.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

I want to say yeah, it's it'll when you say it'll be like, oh yeah, I can't believe I forgot that guy's name. But um yeah, he so I think about the uh during that time, especially like the the com because really the the Batman 89 and like the movies that came after were really trying to capture a comic book on screen. I mean that was kind of the goal of those movies, and so um that version of of Alfred was just this comic book-y butler kind of guy. He pulled it off very well. Michael Goff, is that my I thought I was thinking Michael, I really was. That's funny. Um, but uh yeah, he uh I to me like when I think about what's the look, I guess he he's got the look of um pretty pretty well down for sure. Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

He he is definitely who I when I picture Alfred, that's who I picture. Yes. Um I think most iconic, I mean it's for me, it's also Michael Cain. But yeah, I mean I loved Andy Circus in the latest one too. Very good, very good. He very again, a very different take, just much like Batman in general. But like because like I remember I started re-watching it, like I didn't get very far into it, but I started re-watching it and like the very beginning, like he's the one like solving some of these puzzles and stuff like that. And Bruce Wayne just walks in and's like, What are you doing? So again, just different takes. But uh yeah, uh Andy Zirkis did a great job too.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

I love that's the the question that you went to, though. Yeah, right. Definitive Alfred. We'll we'll come back to the definitive Batman in a little bit. That's uh but we definitely want to come back to that question. Yeah, for sure. Well, we we have already touched a little bit. Did you guys have anything you wanted to add into, like what makes him stand out from other other superheroes? I mean, I know we talked about him being a regular guy, um, having the most iterations of any any superheroes, um, anything else that you can think of that like makes him stand out?

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Iconic villains. I mean, yeah, truly. The Joker, the Riddler, even Dr. Freeze, like all these other like Poison Ivy, Bane, like so many. Catwoman, yeah. Yeah. Is Catwoman a villain? Okay. Yeah. I I think most would classify her as that. But yeah, I mean, again, like just so many iconic villains as well. That again, like, what's what's a a good hero without a villain to fight, you know?

SPEAKER_03 20:00

So and so many of them have like such a rich story too, then when you think about it, um, that that have some sort of a connection to Batman in some way that is just outside of the the crime fighting, like I'm just fighting him to fight him kind of thing, and having to win the day, but rather I mean, depending on which iteration of the different characters that you're talking about. Um, I mean, there there's there's such a depth to the amount of of uh characterization between the good and the evil and trying to understand and get behind uh the mask, so to speak, not necessarily of Batman, but of the uh you know, of the bad guys or the villains as well.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Scarecrow, RV Dent, Razo.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Penguin. Oh yes. And I mean, I don't even know if we're gonna talk about um oh my gosh, Colin. What's his last name? His uh the newest iteration of the penguin. Um blanking on his name, too.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

See, now you now you know how I felt in the last episode.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Yeah, exactly. Um but I don't know if you guys did you guys watch the penguin? I kind of forget if we ever talked about it. I did not.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

I I've been back to it.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Oh gosh. Yeah, not Colin Firth.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

No, that's what I was that what I went to too. Yeah, I can't remember.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Um I highly, highly recommend it. Yeah, if you're able to, if you're able to watch it at some point. But no, I agree with you. And you know, speaking of uh the Rogues Gallery, uh, there is one season of a Batman animated show called Do you guys know Beware the Batman? It's it just came out for one season, they didn't renew it, it's just an animated show. But that Rogues Gallery was the weirdest I've ever seen, but I loved them. Like there was like Professor Pig, Humpty Dumpty, Magpie, like all these characters I all these villains I'd never heard of. Yeah. Um, like pretty deep cuts from the comics. But the way they portrayed the king. Uh, was he in there? I know he was in the Lego Batman movie, but um, but uh, but it but just um and I I say all this to say like just reiterating their point. Like his his entire um Yeah, Rogues Gallery catalog is just so interesting. And even the weird random ones can be like portrayed in a in a really compelling way. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

No, there there are there are quite a few. And and um I guess the the other comparison that I was drawing to is I was you brought up X-Men earlier, and so I was thinking like there's a lot of of depth of storytelling to that in which the the the heroes are connected to each other um in such a way. And and nowadays, like you look at it and you say, like, well that's that's all of them. Like you look at Marvel and stuff like that, and they all have their interconnectedness of the heroes and the things they've been through together. Um but at the time, you know, like before all of that actually happened, I feel like Batman was doing it in the animated TV show in some of these things that were um existing far before Marvel kind of brought them into the popularity um of just the zeitgeist, I guess, of today. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Well, I mean, to not to keep going on, but one other thing that I was thinking of as we were talking through this is his relationship with the police department of Gotham. Like, I mean complicated. Yeah, complicated for sure. There's he's got allies, he's got enemies within it. Like uh again, like uh it I think it adds a lot to you know, he can't always just like go out and do his thing. Like he's got yeah, people uh uh up against him, even from within power in the city. Yeah, right, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

I think it's uh I mean this is superheroes in general, but you're you're going against stacked odds, right? Like I mean that's that's him all the way, like the corruption within the city, uh the government, like you were saying, and the police, as well as the the stuff that is outside of. And so I think that that's uh that's superheroes in general. But to me, when I think of Batman, like yeah, you know what? Regular guy doesn't have a whole lot going for him other than the money and the the stuff like that that he can pull from his assets, but um outside of that, no, you like you know, like it doesn't feel like you're like he could potentially win this battle. Um and that's I don't know that you keep on he keeps on fighting it anyways. Um and so I don't know. I don't know if that's different from other superheroes, but that's just one thing that I admire and that I like about Batman.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Yeah, for sure. Nick, do you want to take us into our starter pack? Yeah, let's before you let me transition us here.

Starter Pack For New Fans

SPEAKER_03 24:22

Nice 60s, we gotta bring it in somewhere, right? Oh yeah. Uh starter pack. So I think each of us probably would would have a different thing that we might say for this, because there is in this case so many different starting places that you could go and pick up Batman. Yeah. Um I I guess when I think about my like where I would recommend somebody go and try and pick up Batman. I mean it's the movies are the easiest entry point. Um I I do think that that they are approachable and and um make the character they most of them have the retelling of the story, you know, his origin story at some point. And so that's an easy jumping on point that you can get the the story easily, even though most people know it, I feel like, but um because it's been told in so many different different ways or the same ways, depending on who you talk to, right? Um but uh I don't know, like for me the especially the anything that is animated, DC has always done really well. Um so you can't go wrong, especially if you're like, you know what, I I've already maybe I've seen a Batman movie, I was never really into it. But if you wanted to go and see uh maybe something that was different in Batman and try it a different way, uh going and just trying, I mean, like there's the uh the long Halloween, which is a great um just animated movie that Batman was. Did you guys watch that one or no?

SPEAKER_00 25:51

I believe I did a couple years ago. It might have been a while for me too.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

Yeah. Um and if I'm not mistaken, it was it I believe it was this is like the early on Batman 2. Like this was um not not a later iteration because uh I'm sure we get into this later on too, but like there are stories where you're talking about an older Batman. This is a very young Batman at the beginning of his career. Um so Long Halloween, I think, is a is a great uh they made a good two-part uh animated movie about it. Just it's not even that old, it's only a couple years old, I think.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

You know, I think I actually watched The Killing Joke, not the Long Halloween. Oh, that's the one I okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

I know that one for sure. Um but yeah, so I guess that'd be my recommendation is if you're looking for something different than like just going and watching the movies, animated series, you know, from the 90s for sure, or just any one of the many animated movies that have come out with Batman, also very you know, many of them are good starting places for sure. What about you guys? Where where are you at?

SPEAKER_01 26:48

It's all gonna depend on tone that whoever was whatever you're looking for. But that's kind of again the nice thing about it is there's a lot of variety for whoever's looking for something. If you're just looking for something a little light, uh more lighthearted, like yeah, the animated series might be good. Um, I mean, obviously, if you're looking for something a little bit deeper and more grounded, I think that the Dark Knight trilogy, which we won't talk too much about again, but I again just it's gonna keep coming up. But yeah, that's a great one, mostly because you get introduced to a lot of the things, and I think it does a good job of Batman's origins as well, which we don't get as much of in some of the other iterations.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Michael? Yeah, yeah, I agree. Um, I I was trying to decide between three things. Um, Dark Knight trilogy, um, just because again, you have that grounded, you know, just real life feeling, which it can be relatable for a lot of people, just getting into it. I was gonna say Mask of the Phantasm. Do you guys remember that one? Yes. Yeah, that one was just such a I mean, it really shows like depth of character. It's an interesting story, you know, kind of, you know, mystery. And I think it's just a fun watch. Um, you know, you're not getting like committing to the whole animated series, but you're kind of getting like a snippet of it. Um, but then the other one I was gonna say was just Batman 89. I mean, I feel like it's just a classic. Like, you've got amazing actors in there, Michael Keaton, Jack Nicholson. Like, it's just it's fun, you know, it's um it strikes a good balance. It's serious. I think it takes itself pretty seriously. Yeah, it does. But it's also like, you know, it's just fun. It's a fun movie to watch. It's it strikes a good balance there. And I think people love generally um uh Danny Elfman and uh why am I blanking on his name? Who's the director? Tim Burton. Oh my gosh. Yeah, people I think he's you know, Tim Burton's popular in the zeitgeist. You know, people love his work, so it's kind of fun to go back and see like that early, you know, that early work. But um, so I think one of those three would be my starter, my starting spot.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Those are good. Yeah. I think see, I told you, I knew we'd all have a little something different to to bring to it.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Is it is it weird that none of us have suggested a comic? I mean, I know I know none of us are like, again, super into the comics. I know you've got a couple nick, but like I did bring a few.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Um I'm not so here's the thing. I am the person that's answering comic book questions, but I'm gonna I'm gonna preface this right now. I am by no means an expert on Batman comics. Um, I just happened to subscribe to some uh Batman comics at one point and had you know followed at least a couple of the storylines and had you know just really I I just love the artwork. Um it's fun to go and look at the look at those. But I don't know. I I think that it's hard when uh not not I don't think either, you know, any of us that are sitting at this table are like huge comic book people, so it's not surprising that we wouldn't recommend people to to start there. But if you're into comics, there are just so many different places that you can go. And again, that's that might be part of the problem.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Yeah, I don't even know where to begin, like why I never got into it. Again, I I didn't know where to start myself in the comics. So there's so many different like timelines and even earths that I know of. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 29:54

Well, this is normally the spot where we go into the impassioned plea, right? So um we don't just have one guest to make an impassioned plea. So each of us can kind of take a uh 30 seconds to a minute. We might get some repeated uh nature to this, you know, saying the same things over and over, but that's all right, you know. We're let's let's go for it. So if I actually, you know, I'll just pass it over to one of you. I'll just ask the question. So what would your impassion plea be, Michael?

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Yeah, oh gosh, I should have thought of this beforehand. Uh I'm regretting not thinking about it. So much easier when we have someone else to pass. I know, yeah, yeah. And then I can do the music, and it's I I don't have to worry about it. Um, yeah, my impassioned plea. I would say, okay. Um, if you love crime, you know, crime detective mystery stories, if you love interesting characters who have um like depth and have a lot of a lot of relatability, but a lot of things that you think like, oh my gosh, I don't know, you know, I could never imagine going through that. Um if you like interesting gadgets and um cool cars, cool uh flying machines, no, um, then Batman is definitely definitely for you.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

I'm gonna leave it at that.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Okay, good. I'll add to it that like, you know, again, like if you're looking for the world's greatest detective, don't look any farther than Batman. Yes but um I uh on top of that, like he's like he stands for justice and in a world where you know there's so much going on, and with all of our backgrounds that I know of, like we all I think have a pretty decent scent of what we think is true justice, and like Batman follows his own compass and he stands for it when uh no one else does sometimes. Yeah, that's well said.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

I like the way you put that for sure. Um yeah, uh Ditto, I'm just gonna say uh no, but but for real. Um I I think that so it it's hard for me to talk to somebody that like doesn't know anything about Batman. Yeah, why would you want to get into like what's the elevator pitch for that? Because to me, it's such a there's such an element of nostalgia um that that's coming from that and makes you like, oh you wanna you want to get into this. You you want because there's there's something that pulls you to it. So if you're a new fan, like if you're like, you know what, Batman's never really been for me. Why why should I jump in and be a part of of this fandom? Um I think that uh the the darkness and the broodiness to me is another thing that makes Batman stand out. If you enjoy um the the I don't know, I mean if superheroes you're like they they're all kind of the same, they feel in the same uh kind of tone. Batman has so many different tones that it can offer to you, but one of those, my favorite, is the more broody and dark tones that I think Batman does better than any other superhero. Um I'm not gonna say there's not any other superheroes doing it, but that one Batman stands out to me. So that's what I'll leave it at. Nice, beautiful. Good job, guys. Impassion plea. It's more fun to put other people on the spot.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

That's for sure. You know, it's all of our past guests. I'm sorry we did that to you. That's a lot of pressure.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Well, they knew it was coming. Okay, that's I think with all three of us, we're kind of like maybe someone else will just take it and we don't have to do it.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Yeah. All

Break And Quick Reset

SPEAKER_00 33:16

right, guys. Well, hey, let's take a quick break and uh we'll be back with more. We're all just sitting here nodding our heads. Just uh feels so good to listen to. There's something about that chord progression that just really hits it hits hard. Well, we're gonna jump into our fandom culture segment, and I would like to start by talking about the memorabilia

Memorabilia And Merch Culture

SPEAKER_00 33:45

that we brought today. Um Nick, can you walk us through? And again, if you're listening on a platform that doesn't have video, jump over to YouTube for a second. You're gonna want to see this.

SPEAKER_03 33:55

There's there are some good things here. Yeah, no, I've got a lot from the uh the Batman and Robin, Batman Forever era of Batmany era. Yes, the Plooney Val Kilmer era. R.I.P. Um Yeah. But uh yeah, so I have the Batwing and also that uh Batmobile as well that's hanging out back there. I was so I was just so excited. I knew that was I was gonna go over to my parents and check and see what was over there. There was more than what I thought there was going to be for sure. Um Robin sitting over there on his motorcycle. I've got a few different iterations of the animated Batman that I'm pretty excited about. This guy with his wing glider. That's awesome. Um but yeah, no, I'm I'm I don't know. The the the action figure era Batman was it for me. Like he was the one that I kept on coming back to. I have the most amount of Batman action figures. I've got some other stuff I was going through. I was like just kind of seeing what was what was there from my childhood, but I was um blown away by the fact that it was so much just Batman and um not not so much uh anything else. I remember the other thing that I saw that stood out to me. Um did you guys watch the this is completely unrelated, but did you watch the Mighty Ducks?

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Oh yeah, did you have some of the Mighty Ducks animated toys? I had some of those, dude. I was talking to someone about that show, and I was like, man, they were hockey players by day and then crime fighters by night. When did they rest?

SPEAKER_03 35:28

Yes, man. That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Yeah, the Mighty Ducks. Nice, good reference.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

I was, yeah, that uh I loved Ben pointed out earlier, the uh I don't know if it's the Robin Hood Batman or the Green Arrow Batman, whatever he is, but I love that very much. Yeah, it is pretty sweet. Yeah, something about it was was really cool. And I just love the all of the fins that come off. But that's another thing that Batman has that's like original Batman. Like what uh what other superhero has like the fins coming off of stuff?

SPEAKER_00 35:55

So I think Bill Finger was he in Batman's Cape, having that, you know, those uh the ridges or the ridges. I think that was his idea, and it just you can literally apply it to anything. I mean, it can do you know, you put on anything.

SPEAKER_03 36:08

That uh the bat wing up there in the front was definitely one of my favorite toys. Like that one was a was a regular. I love playing around with my action figures and making them fly around. It's gigantic. It is huge. All of my I mean, I'm sure they do make stuff that's like that, but I I don't know, it was it it different, different time and different era of action figures.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

And it was past the point that like you know, when they first started out with action figures, they were pretty simplistic, you know, they're just these little plastic figures and stuff like that. In the 90s, I feel like you had a lot of them that had just so many different neat little extras that you have.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

Yeah, it's interesting features, yes, and like 50 different Batmen, each with just one function, one different function. Yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_03 36:54

We lost Raj Al Ghul and uh Too Faced, uh specifically Pirate Two Face, which I just I don't know, I can't get enough. I don't know what he came from, but um it cracked me up a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

That's great. Yeah, I promised the table with my knee. My bad. Um, yeah, so I brought well I brought a few things, all these from you know early uh early 90s, but um I brought my uh body wash uh container that was Batman themed. That you still use? I don't still use it, but I should. I I should start. I'm really impressed that you hung on to uh a bottom bottle of body wash. I just well it so two things collided. I'm a pack rat and then my love of Batman. They kind of came together. It is cool looking. Yeah, it's sick. I mean, it's really sweet. I've got my piggy bank from when I was a kid. Um, that's that second tall figure there. I've got my water bottle from when I was a kid, that purple one from the Batman Animated series. Actually, these are all Batman Animated series. Um that Robin figure. So basically, you you would take a lollipop and put it in the head, and then when you hit the button, it just spins it around. And I I don't know why, but it's it's just it was a thing. Yeah. And then one thing not from my childhood, I brought my um my 1960s Batmobile um from the Adam West era. Um Lego, my Lego Batmobile, yeah. So I had to bring something Lego, I gotta rep, you know, every episode. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Um that's a Batman we haven't brought up yet, is the Lego Batman that we just watched.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

But yeah, I'll see you. So the three of us got together and watched that on Friday, Lego Batman movie. And I would say we had a good time, dude. It's so fun. I catch I catch more and more references, honestly, each time I watch it. Like there's always kind of something new. I'm like, oh wow, I didn't I didn't notice that before.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

But no, I forgot to say my my dad's uh Batman from the 60s and Joker sitting up there on our Wow, those were your dads? That is sweet. So those are hanging out up there too.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Wow, amazing. Very cool.

SPEAKER_03 38:51

But yeah, lots of lots of good stuff there. I think what we're gonna switch gears over

Hot Takes On Batman Movies

SPEAKER_03 38:55

to uh to Would You Rather, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:57

I mean, unless you guys have some creators you want to shout out or any hot takes. Ooh. I know I again I already mentioned that. Like I enjoyed the Batman Forever and Batman Robin like for what they are. Like yeah, they may be hard to get through now. They may not be true pieces of cinema, but I just laughed.

SPEAKER_03 39:15

So I I did not remember in because Batman and Robin is the fourth one, right? Now I'm I'm doubting myself. Because Batman Forever, then Batman and Robin.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

I actually haven't pulled up here. So Batman number one, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, number three, and then Batman and Robin number four.

SPEAKER_03 39:33

So Batman and Robin, I I don't know if I had ever I definitely seen clips of it, you know, just watch it because this is during, I think we all grew up in an era where we would watch the maybe not the movie itself, but the run of it that went on TV.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

So I can definitely recall watching bits and pieces of the you know the Batman and Robin movie, but I don't know if I had ever just sat down and watched it straight through. And so I did that not too long ago, and there were parts of it that I completely forgot about. Like that whole the the whole hockey scene at the very end of the day. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

Which is I can't even talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 40:11

It was but when you think about it, because I was sitting here, I was like, this is so ridiculous, but it's definitely it feels like a com it's very comic booky, like just kind of very goofy and weird, and I don't know, definitely um kind of hits at some of that the the 60s Batman that was there, just the silliness of it. Yeah. Um, but I don't know, that was that stood out to me as I was watching. Like, I didn't remember that as a kid, this weird random hockey scene at the beginning of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Well, the interesting thing with those movies too is I think there was a big push on the merchandising side to make yeah, to make the characters, the whatever gadgets, the different vehicles as merchandisable as possible. And so, like Mr. Freeze, for example, is insane. Like just the the like his uh I don't even know what you would call like the tech that he wears on himself, like just so over the top. Yeah, but again, it was because they were trying to push the merchandise, and this is like what we have here on the table is the perfect example of why I mean I didn't have uh an Arnold Schwarzenegger, uh Mr.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

Freeze, but I do have uh I don't think it's out on the table, but I do have a Tommy Lee Jones. Sweet, yeah, you did. I saw it in your box. Yeah, yep, I saw it in your box.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, hot takes. I mean, I don't know. I feel like most of my opinions are pretty well in line with the rest of the fandom. Like, you know, I struggle through those movies. Um, you know, Batman Anime series is super nostalgic. Love the Dark Knight trilogy. Like, I don't feel like I'm that far. I don't I don't this might be a warm take, but um Ben Affleck's uh iteration of Batman, I do love. It actually reminds me, he reminds me a lot of Kevin Conroy's Batman. Okay, like he he looks like him. Yeah, you know, he has that kind of like squarish face, kind of like a bigger, a little bit older. Yeah, absolutely. And I always, if if uh the Batman Anime series, Kevin Conroy's Batman, was live action, but with Kevin Conroy's voice, I almost think it would be like Ben Affleck. You know, do you guys know what I'm saying by that? For sure. Yeah, and that's why I really like his version. And honestly, we didn't get a proper, like just solo Batman movie from him, and so I'm bummed about that. So again, I don't know if that's really a hot take because I know a lot of people didn't like Justice League, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

Um so neither of you would consider yourself to be a you know part of the the Snyder apologists or Snyder's Snyder's boys there.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

So Ben and I were talking about this on Friday before you got here. Yeah. Uh and for the longest time, Justice League in particular, I didn't really like just I don't know, it had so many issues with it. It was so tonally all over the place. Like you started off Zack Snyder, super dark, but then they brought in, I think it was Joss Whedon to try to lighten it up, make it more like a Marvel movie. And so it's just all over the place. But then so I didn't really like that. But then probably about I don't know, maybe three or four months ago, I went back and rewatched um Zack Schneider's cut of the Justice League in black and white.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

In black and white.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Yeah, and I honestly I I really did love it. Like I thought it was amazing. Like it just, I mean, the cinematography was really interesting. Um, that's why I bought that Batmobile from uh Batman versus Superman, the LEGO one that just came out. Um, because I just re-watched that movie and I was like, wow, I I'm into this. Like, you know, it's it's good. So I I don't know if I'd call myself an apologist necessarily, but I will say Zack Schneider's version, um, kind of what he had originally intended, I did, I did very much enjoy.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

I I would agree with that. I was not one of the, you know, I'm not the people that's writing letters to bring back the Snyder verse or whatever. Like, that's not me, but I was like, I was bummed that they that they didn't ever give it the proper send off that it deserved. And I do think that he made very good movies. Um That uh I I don't know, I I feel like they stand the test of time. Like when I go back and I watch Snyder movies, um they're they're just so different from what was was coming out at that point in time. Like Marvel was so, so different, and that was uh I think a good thing. Like the you wanted your movie to stand out in such a way that people could differentiate between those two, you know, between the Marvel movies and the DC movies that were coming out at the time. So for me, um, you know, Snyder did that. He he set himself apart from those Marvel movies uh incredibly well. And then, you know, with the the Matt Reeves Batman, this is where I don't know if this is a hot take among among the the people that are here. I'm not crazy about it. Like it's definitely if I was ranking Batman movies, it would be more towards the bottom than it would be to the top for me. Um I think there's a lot of the other ones that would come um over over top of that one. And I don't know, man. Like it's it I can't even really necessarily say and dictate as to why that is, but that's my you guys agree or disagree. Where are you at on Matt Reeves?

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Um I I would rank it firmly in the middle. I I think it had like I it did some good things. Again, it was very uh dark and gritty, and I think it did lean a lot more into the detective side of Batman than we usually see instead of just straight up punching people. Yeah, but um at the same time, does that make for an entertaining movie in the way that he did it? I don't know. Um it didn't grip me as much, I don't think, and like yeah, keep me interested. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

I would say I I do disagree. That's definitely a hot take with me. I would rank the Batman, Matt Reese the Batman, pretty high up there. Um and honestly, it's actually kind of what you just said, like it did feel more like a detective movie, and like it was fun seeing a younger, like a really young Batman. Because Christian Bale, like he was definitely young, and you know, he was uh he was a new version, but there was something about um Robert Pattinson that just felt like physically younger, I guess. And I think um I don't know, it was gritty, like it it definitely felt like it could be happening in real life, but it also had a fantastical element to it, like it kind of over the top. But part of it too is watching the Colin Farrell, that's who it was. I was gonna say Colin Furrell. Colin Farrell. Part of it was watching the penguin, yeah, yeah, and the just seeing that that universe and world expanded like from the penguin side, um, actually for me made the Batman better because it kind of made like the world building a little bit richer. Um, and so I I rank it, I mean it's not the highest, but I rank it pretty it maybe pretty I mean it would definitely be in my top five. Okay, for sure. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

I uh I don't know. I so that was when you were talking about like, oh, it seems like it could be happening really because it was almost to me, Batman felt kind of pedestrian in in that iteration, more so than other movies. Like, I mean, I was I think about especially when you're comparing it to the other versions of Batman where he's got all these gadgets and stuff like that. And maybe it's the fact that he was a young version of it, and he hadn't like built up that you know, every everything is armory, yeah. Um, but I that's I think that was for me what made it hard was the you know, I I want I want my superhero to like actually feel like a superhero. I want him to feel you know what I mean. Like that he he stands apart in that way, but it did, you know, because he you you got that side of oh, this is just a detective style story. Um, you definitely got that a lot more. And I do think that there were plenty of things that stayed true to um the roots of Batman in the movie. So I'm not gonna say I hated it. Uh, you know, you guys know my feelings when it comes to any kind of um property that I enjoy. I'm rarely going to sit there and rip it apart because I I want them to make more of the things that I've got. Yeah, that's what I appreciate about you.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

I've said that I I probably said in the last episode.

Definitive Alfred And Definitive Batman

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Yeah, nice. All right, well, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

Yeah, let's let's move into our group discussion. So we're gonna do this a little differently, where the each of us are gonna cover kind of a different offshoot of Batman IP. Um I'm we're gonna take like five minutes each, I think, on them. So we're gonna kind of cruise through them, but we're gonna start with Michael. You're gonna cover the movies and the TV episodes or shows. A lot of pressure. Yeah, a little bit, yeah. Um, I didn't transition us. Keep going. Perfect. So, Michael, big question. Who's your definitive Batman as far as on screen?

SPEAKER_00 48:37

Yes. Oh gosh. Good question. Good question. Um, I I'm gonna have to go with uh Christopher Nolan. Um was he Batman?

SPEAKER_01 48:47

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Uh let me there. I deserve that. Uh Christian Bale is who I meant to say. Yeah. I'm gonna go with Christian Bale. Um, I think that I, you know, I was in oh my gosh. I must have been like 12 or 13 when the first Batman when Batman Begins came out. Maybe I was 14. I was I I was in a pretty like formative time in my life. And I think those movies really, I mean, I fell in love with them. I love those movies. You know, they're definitely in my top, uh, you know, top-ranking Batman IP, you know. And so, yeah, and I think Christian Bale, too, like I love him as an actor. Um, I think he he played because it really is kind of two separate characters when you think about it, like Bruce Wayne versus Batman. I think he played both amazingly. I know he gets so much crap for his voice, and like I definitely don't love it, but at the same time, like it does kind of add to that differentiation. Um, you know, I loved his relationship with Alfred, with Rachel. Like, I just I don't know. He was a great I thought he he played both characters super well. Um, so I'm gonna say he's my my definitive Batman.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

Yeah, I I think uh like what like what you're saying, I think he played the two Bruce Wayne and Batman the most different of anyone we've seen so far. And I I think that was that's a good call.

SPEAKER_03 50:10

You're saying yours too then, but in the case of it. Probably yeah I'm going um I'm going Kevin Conroy. I mean, yeah, hard. I know. I would I yeah, sorry, go ahead. Oh no, no. I just I mean, you know, when you voice a character for as long as he did, it's it's hard not to, and like the the um just how iconic he is for voicing Batman. Um and then when you when I guess I guess when I picture when I I guess when I hear Batman's voice, that's who I think of. I think of all of the different iterations. He played so many different versions of him, but uh yeah, he he definitely captures the best version of Batman's voice because he's a voice actor.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Yeah. And I will say to uh to back up Kevin Conroy, um he he distinctly he differentiates Batman and Bruce Wayne too in a really cool way. Like his Bruce Wayne is like very like lighthearted and kind of like higher pitched, and then his Batman is obviously very, you know, like darker and brooding, and yeah, which you know to the extent you can just being a voice actor, um, I think he did a good job too of like making them feel pretty different. Nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:17

I think if I was going uh honorable mention for me, I mean it's gotta be Michael Keaton, right? Like I mean was good. Yeah, for sure. Definitely I loved Michael Keaton's Batman and I thought that he was phenomenal. And when I again that's the nostalgia coming from it, but it's I I guess the the biggest thing that I love about Michael Keaton is the fact that uh I don't know, like he he brings enough humor to the role to make it fun, um, but also is is not like making fun of the the character, you know what I mean? Like it's not an Adam West where it's just this is ridiculous and over the top. It's it's fun but also serious.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

Yeah. So that brings me to uh a next question I'm gonna ask Michael, which I was just thinking about as we were talking through stuff, because it seems like the past 20 years we've gotten dark, gritty Batman. So where do you think we go next? Do we stay on that route? Like I know obviously Matt Reeves has another one coming out, but do we does the next Batman after that uh does he stay kind of dark, gritty like that, or do we get some more comic book elements into it?

SPEAKER_00 52:20

I so from what I've heard from just James Gunn rumblings, which again, I feel like the DC universe in general is kind of in a uproar right now. Like, I'm not even sure what the future is with uh the purchase of Warner Brothers, or or I don't even know all the details of it. Um but I would be interested to see a more lighthearted version just because we haven't in so long. I would say the most recent lighthearted versions that we had, which would be like the 90s Batman live actions, were just so awful. They were lighthearted, they were campy. Like there's definitely a distinction there. So James Gunn, I think, can't help himself. I don't think he can make a serious, like dark movie. Yeah, or maybe he can, but um, he's you know so well known for his, you know, kind of like lighthearted but fun, like very comic accurate, you know, like group superhero movies. Um so I know it's not gonna be just Batman. I think there's gonna be um like yeah, like Damien, uh Damien Wayne's gonna be in there, and I'm sure there'll be other like characters that pop in. So I'm interested to see that. Um, you know, I really enjoyed the tone of Superman. Um yeah, again, very lighthearted, very fun, like you know, didn't take itself too seriously, but it wasn't like campy. There's that there's just a difference there. Absolutely. Um, so yeah, I think I'd be interested to see that. But um nice, yeah. I'd agree with that.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

I'm intrigued. I I I am with you there. I can't wait to see what James Gunn does with the character.

SPEAKER_01 53:44

Because it does feel like it's been a while since we've found again a balance between dark and light. Like it's it's one or the other so far. For sure. All right, so to wrap us up, like let's go to the other side of the who iconic Batman. Who's the most iconic villain? On screen or silver or uh big screen, but is it called the gold screen?

SPEAKER_00 54:07

It doesn't seem right. Yeah. I'm gonna take us in a different direction here. Okay. I'm gonna say Colin Farrell's the penguin. Okay, no. Yeah, which again, he's not in a he's only briefly in the Batman movie. You know, he he did he has an okay, you know, uh not like a massive um role in that, but he played that so well that they gave him his own spin-off. Like I would say to be a villain getting a spin-off is kind of a big deal, especially live action. And so I think that speaks to just the way he played the penguin. Um, but then watching the penguin series, like I was I was super invested in that. And Colin Farrell, like I I love him as an actor in general. Um, and so I think I'm gonna say I think everyone thought I was gonna say Heath Ledger's a Joker. And you avoided it. Yeah, I think that's like the the most probably popular answer because I mean it is just so incredible.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Yeah. And I I think we also didn't get to see enough of it, which you know, yes, tragic. Yes, but I mean again, like, yeah, I think that kind of it didn't like necessarily hold him back from being iconic, but like we've gotten to see a lot more of some of the other villains now. So that makes sense. Yep. I mean, I'm surprised. I I thought you were gonna go Mark Hamill as the Joker, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

Yeah, I guess yeah, that's an honorable mention. I think I'm I am a little more focused on the live action versus animated,

Arkham Games And Feeling Like Batman

SPEAKER_00 55:25

but yeah. Oh, dang it. Am I gonna change my? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

Oh gosh. Okay, well, let's move on. Um, I'm gonna talk a little bit about some of the video games. Yes, and I'll I'll tell you my the most of my experience comes from a originally trilogy, but there's like a fourth one and a VR one and some other offshoots. Uh they're called the Arkham games. Uh Arkham Asylum, Arkham City, and Arkham Knight. Um, so a big trilogy of Batman video games. And like again, one of the things I liked is like it it starts kind of in the middle of the story. Um so at like literally the beginning of Arkham Asylum, I think you're with the Joker taking him to Arkham Asylum. Like, so you've captured him already. Like, so yeah. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:05

Well, let's let's start that off then. So um which which Batman game best captures the feeling of being Batman?

SPEAKER_01 56:12

So I don't know if you're going just off of Arkham games or in general, but I mean, yeah, it seems like the Arkham games just captured a lot of it perfectly because a lot of the other ones were kind of a little more again, lean campier. This one was again dark and gritty, which again we we it seems like we've been stuck in that that Batman phase. But um yeah, uh there was you know like good elements of stealth gameplay where you know you're creeping around shadows using your gadgets a lot, trying to like identify where your enemies are, dropping down on them and scaring them. Because that was a a huge factor, is like this the fear system, I think they called it. I I can't remember exactly, but yeah, like you the more you did, the more likely the other enemies were like a big group of baddies, the more likely the other enemies were to just run away, like by scaring them. So again, just like some cool elements like that, I I think captured being Batman pretty well.

SPEAKER_00 57:05

Have the Batman games done a good job of capturing Batman's role as the world's greatest detective, or do you or do you feel like they lean heavily more on like the combat side?

SPEAKER_01 57:16

They definitely are well known for their combat. Okay. Um, but I think that there are some like a lot of like little side elements. Nick, I know you're fairly familiar with them too, uh, so you feel free to chime in. But yeah, like there's there's some good elements. Like I know I think it was the third one with the Riddler puzzle puzzles.

SPEAKER_03 57:31

Like they're they're in most of the okay. It's been years since I played them. They got more puzzling as they went on for sure, and there was more elements of having to to solve the puzzles. Um, then there was, I'm trying to remember, in in certain um parts of the game, there was like the uh I can't remember which one it was, where they brought back or they uh like the the crime scene recreation. Yes. Um, which was really a cool element.

SPEAKER_01 57:58

I think it might have been the second one because I I think I remember like a specific part where you're trying to figure out like where a gunshot came from, sort of thing. And so like yeah, you're trying to like line up angles and stuff like that to figure out where you should go next, essentially. So like they did a good job of balancing that combat, but with some like puzzle elements in it.

SPEAKER_03 58:14

Yeah, there there are a lot. I mean, that it is uh Michael, you would love playing those games. I mean, you really, really would because it is you are I want to be Batman. You are Batman.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

Yeah, we could like again. I I might I don't know if I have one downloaded right now. I'll go download one.

SPEAKER_03 58:29

Yeah. Honey, I'm gonna be late coming home.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

Right.

SPEAKER_03 58:32

No, they're they're fun games for sure. Um, let's see, which which Batman villain has been used best in a video game? Or in the Arkham series, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

Uh in the Arkham series, I mean the Joker plays a huge role. Uh spoiler alert, he wait, wait.

unknown 58:49

I'm Batman.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

Thank you, Michael. Um he does die halfway through the series. Oh. But the third one, you the third one, you're kind of poisoned by Scarecrow at some point, like with his gas, and you start seeing Joker again. So he's like popping up like in as a vision, like, and so he's still like taunting you even after his death and that sort of stuff. So kind of cool. Again, like yeah, super like uh just well done. Like, because how like the most iconic villain ever, like he's gone in the third one, and like, yeah, you've got others, you've got plenty of others to fight, but to bring him back in a way like that, super cool. Yeah, no, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 59:24

Joker is is definitely well done in the games. Uh voiced by the great Mark Hamill.

SPEAKER_00 59:29

So, yeah, very cool. Well, why don't we uh transition and uh let's go, let's let's uh ask some comic questions here for Nick. So, Nick, I mean, I guess maybe to start out, what is your comic, what is your background/slash level of knowledge within like the comics specifically?

SPEAKER_03 59:47

I don't know a lot when it comes to the the stories. I know some of the more iconic um stories that were you know originally coming from uh from the comics that then made it into especially animated features. Um for a while I was uh you know at a comic book store, was subscribed and had uh regular issues of Batman and specifically I'll I'll pull this up right now because I think it's worthwhile we're gonna be able to do that. Yeah, jump on YouTube, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:12

Jump on YouTube.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:13

I I got into Batwoman for a while. Um and you know, not just because she's a woman, but because like honestly, the artwork in these are really good. Just really, really, really good. Yeah. Um, and that was what kind of kept me coming back to it, more so even than the story, which was was really interesting. Um, but yeah, I just I really, really love the the oh goodness. Here I go. See, I'm being like our guest now that's knocking into things. Um, but yeah, then also just the uh the Batman in-game series that was one that I read. Um that was there was a lot of crossover that they would do with those. So like here's uh you know, just the Batman and the Justice League with the crossover there. Um so that was that was when I kind of got in, and then Zero Year was another one that was that was big. They were kind of doing a big restart um at the time that I was starting to buy some comics, and that was kind of cool to get to see a little bit more of them uh rebooting Batman again within the reinventing him within the comic book universe. So um, but yeah, that's uh to to say that I know comics well would be um

Comics Picks And The Bat Family

SPEAKER_03 1:01:15

very much an overstatement, but you know, out of the three of us, I I I know the most. That sounds like it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:21

So I mean uh again, you said you've you know some of the more iconic storylines. So what what would you say is your favorite Batman arc?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:27

It's it's funny that you bring it. So I I love that you brought up the the Court of Owls because um very, very good story. Um, you know, it it was I remember, I think I I I was looking for it because it's not a part of what I what I had in my collection, um, but I do remember reading the story. Um, and it was another one where there was a decent amount of crossover um because the court of owls was targeting Batman and the entire Bat family uh as a part of the you know that that storyline. Um but that's a really, really good one that um I that stands out in my memory. And then they took it and they put it in one of the one of the games. I can't remember which one it is. Um do you remember, Ben? Which which one of the games the quartervals was in? I know it was in one of them. It might have been actually now that I'm thinking about it, you know what it was? I think it was the newest one, the one that didn't go over very well. Um with uh oh my gosh, what was it called? Um uh Batman Wasn't really in.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:26

Uh the Gotham Knights? Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:29

I think it was I think Quartervals was in Gotham Knights, if I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:32

Okay, that track then, because I that was one that I was excited about, and then I heard how bad it bombed, and so I didn't get into it. It was uh 2022 Gotham Knights, that's when the Quarter Vals showed up.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:41

I was really excited to play a part of that story that I loved, you know, from the comic books that was then in Gotham Knights. And I like there's there's a hot take right there. I I did not hate Gotham Knights.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:53

I wanted to try it, but again, I think they shut it down pretty quickly, didn't they? Because it was very multiplayer dependent from what I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:59

Uh part of it was you you definitely could play it without multiplayer.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

So one of the things that we haven't covered, and we can come back to comics, but I think it's important, and we're reaching a pretty cool spot to bring it up with your interest in Batwoman was is all the side characters that and side kicks that Batman has had. And like, I mean, I'm wearing Nightwing. Nightwing was one of my favorites. Uh again, uh just like it spawns so many Batwoman, any of all the iterations of Robin. Um for our for our uh normie listeners, who is Nightwing? So Nightwing was Dick Grayson, who kind of went off and did his own vigilante justice thing, the first Robin, yeah. Um he had two electric batons that he would use and just kick butt, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:43

Robin has such a good story. Like there the the Robin storylines uh throughout the I mean that that is a comic book-based thing, obviously, because who was it? Was it uh was it J Jason Todd, right? Came after after Dick Grayson, yeah, and he's the one that got killed by the Joker, or depending on which storyline you're part of. He becomes the Red Hood. Yep. Um but I mean, just I again the the richness of the backstory in that just makes it so good. And I remember um especially playing it in the the Arkham games because I I hadn't really I didn't know the Red Hood, I didn't know what it was all about, and when that was a big part of that game and that reveal came out, I was like, dude, this is crazy! Like what? Um but yeah, no, those are man, just such powerful storytelling which originated from the comics, which they then adapted into the games and movies.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:34

And movies. We've really only gotten to see Robin in one movie, right? Or two, the the 90s ones. Yeah, Batman Forever and Batman Robin.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:42

Could you could you argue that Robin is in uh well, I should give a spoiler hang.

unknown 1:04:47

I'm Batman.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

Is he in Dark Knight Rises? Is Nightwing in Dark Knight Rises? I mean, that's a real question.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

It's close, yeah. I I mean kind of, but they kind of like leave it open that he could become Nightwing, but which I was really rooting for. Maybe they were planning on it, but Joseph Gordon Levitt. I do love Joseph Gordon Levitt.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

You always looked like him and I wanted to be him, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

We we don't need to talk about that though.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:12

That was that was one part of of the uh that trilogy that I I felt was a little bit of a throwaway. Like I love it was a nice little like oh here's an Easter egg thing. But yeah, I it man, I I wish they would have done more with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:23

Oh, me too. I just yeah, it was it's yeah, very much.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

I wonder if they I wonder if they planned on it, but then Christopher Nolan got so big because of the trilogy that he was like, I'm I'm done with this. I'm gonna go do things that I want to do now.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:36

And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:36

Yeah, no, potentially.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

Yeah. Um let's ask one more comic question. Um so Batman has changed a lot over the decades. Do you prefer the darker modern take or the more kind of classic version that's um maybe a little more I don't want to say campy, but just not not as dark in tone?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:55

Um, I only so most of mine comes from the more modern uh comics that. That are out there, and so when you read uh any of the Batman comics, or most of them, I should say, like they're all done within a tone. I I think of it like the Batman voiceover. Um that that's what's going on the entire time within the comic book is him giving this voiceover uh to to what's going on while the the story is unfolding and kind of telling the perspective you know, almost from the perspective of looking back, and very much hitting the uh the darkness of tone that we're used to seeing in movies and stuff like that. And so that's where my background comes from is I only really know those comics, and in some cases when you read it it's I I don't know how to put it. It it's uh it's so dark and broody and like that it almost becomes campy in that regard that you look at you like this can you really take this seriously? Yeah, or or is it you know just kind of there is a fine line. Yeah, there yes. And so I guess I I like my Batman with the with the broodiness for sure. Um I I don't mind it's it's something that's cool. Uh you know, some of the the voiceovers, as it were, were um a little bit more than more enjoyable than others, I guess. Which brings me to one thing that I wanted to make sure

Audio Adventures And Closing Updates

SPEAKER_03 1:07:15

I brought up because I was in charge of other media. But have either of you guys excuse me, done any of the um I'm trying to remember what they call it. It's the uh audio adventures of Batman. No, I don't think so. No, I don't think I've heard of it. Very good. Um worth looking into. So that's it's on any uh podcasts uh of choice, you know, wherever you're going to catch your podcast, but you can go and find the uh the audio adventures of Batman. I'm literally gonna listen to that on the way home. It's sick. Like I I got into it for a while and I was listening to it back and forth. I think they're so it started out as just kind of like this passion project, and now it is is uh fully endorsed, I believe, by DC. Um, and so they've been producing episodes and remake. Like I know they did zero year, if I'm not mistaken, and then I think they moved from zero year and got into the long Halloween. Oh it is it is the comic book stories that they have then remade to make it more audio friendly. Um interesting. And they're really, really cool. Um I mean it's like uh I mean, you know, back back before TV existed, you know, there were radio dramas. Radio, yeah. That's what it is. I mean, it is a radio drama, they add in the the sound effects and stuff like that. It's not just like people talking, but like the I don't know, the foley artists or whatever you call it that that are making those sound effects and stuff. It's incredible. Like you're you're a part of this story in an audio way, nice. Um, which is really, really cool. So definitely worth looking into, especially for any of you other Batman fans who are like, hey, I want uh some other Batman media, the the audio adventures. That's my shout out for the day.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

Just wait until you're done listening to our podcast. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just finish this episode first, please. While we're about we're about done anyways, I think, because I mean we're running we're running our own time, but um I said we're gonna go for two hours. Uh well, I think one thing that I'd love to end it with is for all of us to give our best. I'm Batman.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:11

All right, well, let's start with the original. I'm Batman. All right, let me get a little nasally here. I'm Batman. Nah, too nasally, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:20

Can't take it seriously.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:21

Uh man, I wish I could do it as as Kevin Conroy does. Oh, yeah. I'm Batman. I can't.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:27

You can do it. Yeah, whatever your Batman is. You know? All right.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:30

He's gonna get a he's a little bit higher up there. You know, he doesn't go with the get the green.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:35

He's very regal almost. Yes. Okay, all right. Uh one more thing. How about our best um Rachel?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:47

All right, nice. Uh how about our Kimberly, did you put your name in the gobble to fire? Oh, sorry. Um we're just yelling things now. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:01

Um can you do your best uh Will Arnett impersonation of Batman?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:07

I need uh I need a darkness.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:10

No parents.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:13

I'm Batman. Nice. It's from the movie from the song that he made.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:17

It's his well that's what I was doing too, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:24

You know, I did I send you guys a I sent you guys a video of me doing my Will Arnett impersonation of Batman when I was sick. Oh yeah, okay. That was probably sounded pretty good. So, Nick, will you post that on social media? All right, thanks. Wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:38

I've been slacking off lately. Gotta get back on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:41

Uh well, as far as next big thing in the fandom, we've mentioned Matt Reeves is working on a new one. I can't remember where in the process they are. I think there's a script now. I don't know. Oh, is it a script? Jeez. It's gonna take a while. Yeah. No doubt. But and then um potentially in the new relaunch of the DC verse, a new Batman will be coming at some point.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:01

Yeah, is that an official relaunch happening or do we know?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:04

I mean, that's what they hired hired James Gunn for.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:06

Oh, oh, you're just talking about yeah, James Gunn. I thought you meant post-James Gunn. Oh, no. I gotcha. Okay. Have they planned anything for post-James Gunn yet?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:14

Well post-James, he just got on.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:16

I was gonna say that's what I mean. Like he's at one movie. Like every time there's a there's a regime change, it's like you know, they throw him out. You're right, you're right. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:24

We haven't even brought it up, but I'm really excited for next month. Uh, you know, the the Lego Batman game, the definitive collection.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:31

So that will be fun. That I wish I wish I was a game. There have there have been some in the past, and those are pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:38

This is gonna be more, so it's going to, from what I can see, is Arkham style.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:45

Yes, the combat and like the gameplay is a lot more than the typical Lego games. But yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:50

Uh next month. Uh yes, I think so. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:54

The Lego sets that they released, the new wave of the Batman Lego sets are all tied to the game. Oh, nice. So they've got um like all those Batmobiles you can access in the game. Okay, they've got like QR codes you can scan to I I I'm not exactly sure um what they're offering because I I don't game.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:12

So this one's multiplayer, so we'll have to I'm I can't wait. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:18

Like this is that's that's I mean, especially since I don't know when the next Arkham game will come out.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:25

Like I don't know if they're what they are making anymore. They might be done, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:29

Um yeah, I know after after Garth Gotham Knight, uh that was kind of that crash number. But that was so I didn't even realize. You did you I know we're coming back to the first one. You knew it was part of the verse, but I knew But it wasn't like I mean it wasn't even a part of like the Arkham series. Yeah. Even though it's weird because it totally, totally is nothing like it, but yeah. It's weird, it is different. Anyways, neither here nor there. Well, what's next for uh so we've talked about what's next for the Batman fandom. What's next for fandom of fandoms?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:59

Yeah, so we've got my buddy. I know we already mentioned this last episode, but uh we had the scheduling change. Yes, we had a scheduling shift. Uh yeah, my buddy Bark Mary or Mark Barry, as some call him. And uh we're gonna talk about Christopher Nolan movies. I think we will discuss the Dark Knight trilogy. So we're allowed to discuss it. Yeah, we'll be allowed to talk about it finally um in that episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:19

We because we never mentioned it in this episode. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:23

I think we did pretty good. We tried to stay away from it. Oh, we did good. I there's there's a million more things I could have said. Uh I I kept a lid on it. So next next episode will be two hours long. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:34

Just like all Chris Fernola movies are very long. True. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:40

No, we're uh so I'm I'm excited. I'm I'm a big fan, even just outside of the Batman movies for Chris Fernanda. Definitely, yeah, absolutely. I'll be excited to talk about more than just Batman. So and also being able to bring it back. So we got a little bit of a connection there. Yeah. All right, awesome, guys. As always, thank you guys all for listening, and we will see you next time.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:02

That's a wrap on this episode of Phantom of Fandoms. If you loved it, hit that follow button at FOF.pod on Instagram and threads, and leave us a quick review wherever you're listening to this podcast. It's like fuel for our little nerdy spaceship. Got a fandom you want us to tackle? Shoot us a DM. Until next time, stay curious, stay passionate, and keep repping what you love.