The Tribe Has Spoken: Survivor's Fandom

Survivor has been on TV long enough to feel like a cultural landmark, but it’s still weirdly hard to explain why it hooks people so fast. Put a group of strangers into tribes, make them build a life from almost nothing, then force them to vote each other out at Tribal Council and you get a game where relationships are currency and trust is a resource you can spend. The twist that makes it brutal is also what makes it brilliant: the people you eliminate become the jury that decides whether you deserve the million dollars. 

We’re joined by Matthew McPherson to break down Survivor for total newcomers and longtime fans alike. We walk through the basics, the meaning of buffs, how the merge changes everything, and why the show shifts over the years from “adventure experiment” into a high-speed social strategy competition. We also talk about the Fiji era, the sheer scale of production, and the mechanics that define modern Survivor, including hidden immunity idols, beware advantages, and the twists that split the fandom into casual viewers and game purists. 

If you’re wondering where to start, we share a practical starter pack that matches different viewing styles, from all-time classics like Heroes vs Villains to modern seasons that showcase the new era. We also dig into Jeff Probst’s outsized impact, the podcast and YouTube ecosystem that turns Survivor into sports-style analysis, and the jury dynamics that keep every win controversial. Subscribe for more fandom deep dives, share this with a friend who needs a Survivor on-ramp, and leave a review with your pick for the best starter season.

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Transcript

Life Updates And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_03 0:00

All right, coming to you from Phantom Outpost Studios, we're here for episode 25. This is a new bit I'm trying. I love it. I love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

But you didn't use your regular, like what your your catchphrase. Gentlemen. Yeah. Yeah, I know. Well, he's going for something new with that. I mean, yeah, we're almost like a little bit of a little bit more. We're a year in, so now it's getting old. Yeah, we're gonna change it up at some point.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

Yeah, exactly. Uh well, Nick, what have you been up to?

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Yeah, it's uh it's been an exciting uh, you know, just a couple weeks going on as we're you know, we're now deep into uh moved into the new house and trying to still get it set up. It's I feel like it's an ongoing process, but we are uh in contract with our old house, which is gonna be sold. So we're heck yeah, that's we're excited. It's been uh nerve-wracking to get it up there, and there's been a lot of work that has been done to try and get it ready. So, but it's finally seems like it's everything's going smoothly, it's going well. Um, you guys know I had some big news, and by the time this comes out, I'm sure it's gonna be on the the public. So I'm gonna go ahead and throw it out there right now. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So we're okay with this. Yeah, she's been telling everybody. So uh yeah, we're we're due for our third kid. Yeah, she's pregnant due in December. So this is it's a big year for us, you know. New house. Third baby. Like it's uh Wow. You look different. Aged. Aged. Wise, wisened. No, but uh, it's it's been a great couple weeks. So we're you've just kind of um been sitting in the the anticipation of that and just all the the gladness and just the uh the thankfulness. That uh life has brought us plenty of blessing and and God's been good, so we're thankful for that. But yeah, how about you, Michael?

SPEAKER_03 1:49

How you been? That's great. Yeah, we've been doing great. Uh just rocking yard work, house projects, uh on the weekends. It it's been yeah, it's been great. Um, this will be you know Mia's first summer, like spring and summer being alive. So yeah, she loves being outdoors. It's yeah, she's just yeah, it's great. We'll take her out there and she just like gets all mesmerized. And you have anywhere exciting that you're gonna take her this summer? Well, we've been taking her to the park next to our house a lot. So she loves being there, she loves the swing, but I mean we'll take her everywhere. We do like various types of berry picking throughout the summer, so we'll take her to all that stuff, and so yeah, it's it's been great.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Various types of berry picking. I can do blueberries, strawberries, raspberries, blackberries.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

I'm not a berry, yeah. Hold on. Berries and other fruits. But uh anyway, yeah. So we can't wait to take her along on all all the those adventures. It'll be great. But yeah, Ben, what have you been up to? I've just been prepping for my sister is getting married next weekend.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

So yeah, really looking forward to that. She's getting married down in the Cincinnati area, back my hometown. So I will be at my parents' place, Michael. Maybe I will venture into the basement and find some stuff. Actually, can I come over? I I'll drive down there. I'm being serious. Uh we can talk, we'll talk offline for the wedding.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Yeah, while you're at the wedding.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

Well, I mean, I could use a second. I'm playing guitar for the uh the ceremony. So if you want to like dual duet some stuff, we can dual guitars. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Dueling guitars. That'd be sick. Uh well, let's go ahead and introduce our guest for today, Mr. Matthew McPherson. That's very formal. Yeah. I didn't know where I was going with that, but yes, it feels like should we just call you McPherson? Like go, the full survivor. Is that what you want? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

If you think I'm worthy worthy of a left thing for introduction, then I take that. McPherson.

SPEAKER_04 3:46

No, but for real, Matt is uh Lindsay's husband, who Lindsay was uh good enough to be on our Gilmer Girls episode a little a while back. So go check out her episode too. But um Matt is here to talk to us today about Survivor, which I'm super excited about. And we're sitting here with two newbies who don't know anything, and I'm I'm looking forward to trying to get them to watch some. Well, so uh yeah, let's kick off the music and Nick introduce us. Absolutely.

Survivor Basics Tribes Merge Buffs

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Hello and welcome to Fandom and Fandoms, the show where every single episode we are diving into the worlds that fans love the most. And today we are so excited because we've got Matt here to take us through Survivor. And uh I'm excited to learn and have a great conversation with you guys. I I've got my I I told Ben earlier I'm being understated here with my pocket square. This kind of got you know a little bit of floral pattern. That's subtle of you. I like that a lot. Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_04 4:40

I need a buff, is what I really need. I need a buff.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

I do too. Yeah. It's it's overdue at this point. I know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

I'm sorry, a buff.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

Yeah, okay. Well, hold on, okay, go. So buffs are uh um oh well, maybe we should introduce the show first and like the concept before we yeah. So I mean, oh let's start with Nick. What do you know about Survivor?

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Yeah, not a lot. Um, so I can remember in the early 2000s when it first came on the scene, um, and it had immense popularity and lots of people were watching it. Um you know, I mean it was it was huge when I was in high school, even that that was I mean people people were watching, would talk about it and that sort of thing. And so that's kind of my biggest background is knowing that um it had a lot of popularity and that that just millions of people were watching it every single week. Um, you know, I knew that there was a basic premise and the cool part of like voting people off the island, and I've seen plenty of that especially done throughout the years um on other pop culture things, but in terms of how much have I actually viewed myself, uh very little. Uh just every ever here and there, you know, you catch bits and pieces of things and um different competitions that they've had, but not I don't really know how the game works, even so. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

Michael, how about you?

SPEAKER_03 5:56

Yeah, you know, I think I'm the exact same as Nick. It's it's in the zeitgeist. Everyone knows what it is. Like there's no one that doesn't hasn't heard of it. And there's been 50 seasons, right? I mean, it's just yeah, I know what it is, but again, I've seen maybe bits and pieces here and there. Um, so I'm definitely excited to learn more about it. Um, but yeah, again, just no background at all. But Ben, what's your background?

SPEAKER_04 6:16

I have watched every single season, um, a couple of them twice, just like going through it. Uh, I I mentioned this last time, like, so I watched like the first like 10 seasons or so with my family when it came out and I was still living at home and stuff like that. My mom would always do like a big fancy thing for the final episode, the finale. And we would like she bought like special tiki glasses and would make us like fruity drinks, and we would drink tropical drinks out of tiki glasses and you know, like some fun appetizers and stuff like that, and we'd have like our a little family party for them. But then, like a couple years went by, I'd missed some episodes and seasons and whatever, but then like during the pandemic, I came back and re-watched everything, like even the ones I missed. And since then, like I've been watching non-stop.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Like, does your family still watch too? Yeah, my parents do.

SPEAKER_04 7:00

I don't know if my sister does as much, but my parents do, and I will text them every week as like I'm watching like what the heck did so and so do, or yep. But now I'm texting Matt as as well. Oh yeah, jealous. Honored, seriously, yeah. I mentioned last week too that you and I are in a uh Survivor Fantasy League, which is a new thing to me, but it's wild. Yeah, it's wild.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

It's it's new to me too, and it is crazy. Like, I think a lot for me in Survivor, like this idea of a fandom is new, right? Like to your point, it's been in the zeitgeist for 25 years, right? This show is like a behemoth of reality TV. But like I only recently discovered the fandom of it this year, right? Like there's this subculture of people who love Survivor more than just watching it every week. They want to talk about it and they want to talk about it in all of its ways and they want to like revisit past seasons together, and it's really cool. So I feel like I'm new to the fandom, but not new to being a fan, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

Right. Well, Michael, why don't you give us a little bit of overview of the show?

SPEAKER_03 7:56

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, yeah, so you know, basic premise here. So obviously, Survivor is a reality competition show that first premiered in 2000. So yeah, I have 26 years now. Um it's based on a Swedish show called Expedition Robinson. That's kind of a funny name. Uh so in the show, 16 and 20 contestants are stranded, quote unquote, on a deserted island and divided into tribes. Throughout the season, they are responsible for making their own shelter and fire, finding food, and then competing in reward challenges against each other. So each episode, there's also an immunity challenge where the losing team must go to the tribal council where they have to vote on one member, uh one of the members off the island. Um so about halfway through the season, the tribes merge into one, and instead of going home when voted out, the contestants become part of a jury that will select the winner. So when it's down to three remaining survivors, each plead their case as to why they should win the title of the sole survivor and the million-dollar prize that comes with it. So yeah, pretty cool.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

Yeah. What okay, so we talked about buffs a little bit. So we took so like uh the survivors of the start of the season are divided into tribes, usually two, sometimes three, just depending on how many people there are, how they want to mix it up. Um, and every tribe has a color and they all wear buffs, which are like these little headbands. Yeah. But they can also be arm bands. They I've seen some skinny girls wear them as tops. Yep, a tube top. A tube top, yeah. But it's like in their tribe's color, it has like their tribe name on it and like the survivor logo.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Is it not just a bandana? It's uh it's more than that.

SPEAKER_04 9:25

No, because it's it's a real company.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Buff is a real company that for somehow, some way this is like the only thing they make, but it's like a neck gator, essentially, like a neck gator that they have branded into a survivor buff. Yep. Yeah. So you can wear it as an ascot as well. You can absolutely we don't see enough of it on the show, yes, to be to be honest.

SPEAKER_04 9:46

Maybe we're jumping the gun, but uh, is there a fandom around buff fashion? Oh yeah. There needs to be there has to be if there isn't. There's got to be something out there. Absolutely funny. Uh man. So like Matt, take us through the basic premise of the season in general. Like I know we we pitched some of it a little bit, but what what are we missing?

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Oh man. I mean, Survivor is so many things. Like, yes, it's about people being on a deserted island, but I think over the years of the show, it's become less and less and less about that. Yes, it agrees. Started that way. I think in the year 2000, it was all about bringing, you know, all these ordinary Americans from all walks of life, you know, onto a deserted island to see what happened as like a social experiment, right? Um, and it was cool to see how they worked together to build fire and shelter and like you know, hunt for food and fish. And that was like part of why you would watch is because it's like we don't know what's gonna happen. They just left them out there, right? We had cameramen watching that all the time. And uh, and as the years went by, I think America, because the way we are, like as viewers, we're like, but give me the drama, yeah, right? Yeah, that's all we need. But you I they were friends, and that friend betrayed the other friend. They lied, right? Like there's these like dynamics at play in every single episode that are just addictive to watch.

SPEAKER_04 11:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

And that's what keeps you coming back.

SPEAKER_04 11:02

Well, along with that, like the more and more contestants that have come on, the more have come on like with knowledge of the show. Yes. And again, the understanding that it's a game. Whereas every like the first couple seasons, 10 seasons or so, everyone's just like, Oh yeah, we're surviving. If we make it to the end and win the million bucks, great. Yeah. But then there started being like a wave of people who come on and are like, I'm here to win. Yep, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to win. Like, and again, like playing those alliances, backstabs, like all these other things to like do whatever they can to get to the end. So there was like definitely a turning point. Totally. Like 10 10 years or so in. But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

I I think I saw this in a video recently. Is it true? So now there is just one location that Survivor films at, but at the beginning, I think I heard that it filmed at different places all over the world. Is that true? Is that you nailed that?

SPEAKER_02 11:48

Yeah, nailed it. I mean, it started and it was it was great, right? Like you're out there, it's Survivor, yeah, Borneo. We did it. And then with a bang, year two, they're going to Australia, right? Like, and then they're going to the Amazon and Africa, and it's just crazy. It was super cool. It was like a tour of the world. Yeah. And then I think uh two things happened. One, they discovered the beautiful beaches of Fiji. Uh-huh. And Fiji was awesome, right? It's a five-hour flight from LA, it's easy to get to. Uh, and then the second thing happened the pandemic. Yeah. The pandemic happened. So they they discovered Fiji pre-pandemic and then they stayed in Fiji till today. So it's been almost what, five plus years.

SPEAKER_04 12:29

Um, I think it was I think I saw the last like 13 seasons or so have been in Fiji. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

And it's to the point now where if you are a fan, you can recognize certain like locations. Oh, that's funny. Oh, I recognize this beach from two seasons ago. Or I recognize this, like, this this arena for the immunity challenge because I saw it, you know, on this season. So it's not sneaky. Not sneaky.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

And they don't try to pretend it's anywhere new. Like they don't acknowledge, yeah. But like, I mean, nowadays too, like, it helps them a lot on production costs because they have like static headquarters, and like this is our shooting location. Like, we we know exactly where we're going. I think like the crew is up to like 300 people or something. Oh my gosh. It's so yeah, like there's like yeah, headquarters for that many people to like, yeah, to base because like the the cameramen,

How The Game Evolved Over Time

SPEAKER_04 13:15

for example, they're out there 24-7, but they rotate. So like you'll be like on for 12 hours or something like that, and then rotate off and stuff. Yeah. So like, yeah, the producers, ever I think there's a cameraman and a producer for every survivor.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Yeah, that's what I've heard. It's hard to put into words how big the show really is. Yeah, like it's massive, it still is massive, yeah, right. Like, I nothing's ever gonna be its peak, you know, in the early 2000s ever again when it comes to like traditional media, but like for a Wednesday night primetime reality TV game show, it's still like the juggernaut. It's like the granddaddy of every show that follows in this sort of like vote player off uh, you know, model that we have today. And it's I I think a lot of it is because of Survivor in this absolute survivor.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

So was there a reality show that had that? I'm not even trying to think, I can't even think of one, honestly.

SPEAKER_04 14:00

I can't even think of a reality show that wasn't like following someone around, like in yeah, right. Not a game show sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Big brother, Big Brother was close. That was the one that came to mind first. That wasn't long after, was it? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

It's pretty close. Amazing Race was right on its tails too, but yeah, they were all like right in that area.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

No, was Amazing Race came afterward too? I believe so.

SPEAKER_04 14:20

It was like a year after, it was pretty close, but okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah, we got producer Michaels on the case right now.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Well, so uh Big Brother came out in July of 2000, but I'm trying to see when Survivor actually premiered. So that was right at the 2000.

SPEAKER_04 14:34

I want to say it was September, so pretty close. Yep. It was May of 2000. So Survivor did first. Yep, Survivor did first, but also I think both were based on other like yeah, other nations shows again. Like we said, this was a Swedish show, and yeah, Big Brother would know it was European for sure, for sure. Oh, maybe Real World. Could be real world. Uh, I was about to ask Matt, like what what got you into Survivor?

SPEAKER_02 15:01

Okay. So maybe to set the stage. Uh huh. Maybe like some of you. Grew up in a pretty conservative household, right? Like sure. TV was something that was kind of protected, right? We had to know what each other were watching, for better or for worse. Uh, and survivor was something we got into on season two, right? Like it was an unavoidable thing. I think, I think that just the sheer momentum of the show and people talking about the show at church. Like eventually, my parents, I was the pastor's kid, right? Like they wanted to know what people were talking about. And I gotta give it up to my mom, who never let it go, right? Like season two is happening, uh, she's in on it, and I'm kind of like in the living room on the floor, like cross-legged as a kid, just like observing the adventure of it all. Like, that's what really sucked me into it was like, whoa, they are out there, like, whoa, they're building things, whoa, immunity challenges are cool. And like, I didn't really care about the talking at the time or like the fighting. I didn't like I was there to see like what would happen. Yeah, you know, yeah. Um, I remember like the nature, and I remember a guy falling into the fire, and like I remember these like disasters that like they caught on camera and just being fascinated by it because like you can't fake that, like you couldn't fake a lot of the stuff. I'm sure you could fake some stuff, and maybe we can get to that eventually, but like a lot of the stuff you couldn't fake, and I was just like drawn in. Yeah, so that became really like similar to you, right? Like a thing that my family connected over and look forward to every week. Yep. Um, and I still look forward to it, and I still talk to my mom about Survivor, right? She's in this fantasy league. I don't think she's active, she's not an active participant, but man, she did sign up. Yeah, and it's something, man. Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

It's something there's something beautiful to be said about that though. Like those those, I mean, man, that's what fandoms are all about, really. When you get that chance, especially when you can be in on it with other people and enjoying something together, and especially when you're talking about family. Like, I mean, that's you can keep on coming back to it again and again together. And I loved what you were talking about, like having a having a party to like celebrate the winner. That is awesome. I've heard great things about that. I know eventually I wanna I want to do uh you know stuff. I I got really into dancing with the stars this past season. Okay, it's been my my I don't know uh flirtation with the the radio you know, the reality television kind of stuff. Oh my god. You know, I but I know a lot of people are the same way, like hey, the the it we're gonna have a big party to to celebrate when they do the big reveal who wins it all and all that stuff. And I was I was really excited. Actually, I was texting with your wife tonight during the during the finale and who was gonna win the the finale of this last season of Dancing with the Stars. Deserving win. But it was yeah, no, it was fun to yeah, it was. Yeah. But no, I just I just love that. Like there's yeah, fandoms deserve to be experienced together. Yeah, and um it's I feel like I'm I I'm a bit saddened. We were talking about this before the podcast a little bit, that there are so few things that we experience collectively as a society anymore. There's just too many niches for for everybody to go and find their own thing, which is awesome. But it's also that like you you're missing out on kind of a this collective experience. So I'd love for for something like that to come back even more. And uh sounds like at least in the survivor fandom, it's it's alive and well amongst uh some some of those pockets of that fandom.

SPEAKER_04 18:15

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

It's like one of the advantages of still being like a network TV show that's released every week on air first, right? Like is that a lost art. It's a lost art, yeah. We're all still watching it live, and like you know, now it's it's like backed up by the fact that there's like live stream and live chat on the side while you're watching it, which is just cool. So yeah, it's continues to be something people look forward to, which is I love that. Yeah, I love that absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 18:40

I was actually uh I know you watch it live. I didn't I don't watch it live because I do uh like Paramount Plus or whatever, but like last night I was playing Lurcon with Lindsay. She's like, Well, wait, aren't you gonna be watching Survivor? And I said, Oh, I watch it like the next day, so like we're good. But I could hear it, there's a point where I heard it on in the background. I was like, oh, Matt's watching. So yeah. Nice. That's uh so so what do you feel like it is that keeps you coming back to Survivor? Besides, like obviously, like you said, you talk with your mom still. Like what what else like keeps you watching?

SPEAKER_02 19:09

You know, like there was a time where it wasn't so much a part of of my daily life. I think college made things difficult, right? Like you you le you leave, yeah, and your your time zone changes, like your whole life changes around, like your Wednesday nights are no longer the same. Survivor changed when they released their schedules. That was weird. Um, but anyway, that was part of it. But like what brought me back was uh I I just missed it. Like I think I I caught something or something went viral on YouTube and like I I saw something I hadn't seen. Um and it it like rekindled that love that I I missed Survivor. I didn't realize I missed Survivor. So like I think it was like probably 2019 where I was like, oh man, Survivor I loved Survivor. And I got back into it and I like jumped right back in. And like the show is strikingly the same, yeah, right? Like it's the same ingredients over the years, right? To create something that is resembling like the same result every time, right? So I didn't feel like I missed too much jumping in late.

SPEAKER_04 20:06

No, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

But I also feel like me and my absence from Survivor, like I'm I maybe jumped over some of the the weaker seasons.

SPEAKER_04 20:13

Oh, interesting. Yeah, there was like between like season like 13 and 20 or something like that, right? Like there was yeah, it was just kind of like it was trying to find itself.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

And then the season I missed. Yeah. So I come back in, I'm like, Survivor's still great. And and like people are like, no, it really wasn't for a while.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

So what so I I am curious about this. I mean obviously, in order for something to have 50 seasons, like they they've got to make something fresh from time to time. What sort of elements do they add to keep it free? I know we're getting I'm probably like what do they add that keeps it different enough that people want to keep watching it every single time? I think I think there's two things.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

First of all, what Survivor does extremely well is casting.

SPEAKER_05 20:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Like what they add is people who you are interested in, right? You might not like them, but you are interested in watching them.

SPEAKER_04 21:02

There's literally a season called Heroes versus Villains where they brought back old people uh who like uh old survivors who were deemed villains or heroes. And so like and like they played up into it and it was great.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

It is good, and like it's so good that other networks have really caught on to survivors like strength and casting. So now you'll look at a show like The Traitors, right, on NBC. It's a rival network. And the traitors is like, why do our own research? We'll just pull former favorite survivor characters and players and bring them onto our show, and it totally works for them, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Is that who's been on traitors?

SPEAKER_04 21:34

There's been like two or three every season for sure.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Yes, old survivor contestants, and like Survivor, to their credit, they don't do that. They're never pulling in like reality TV stars from other shows, they're always finding the real Americans, right? From around the world, or well, from America, but all parts. And it's like it's cool to see Survivor just continue to knock it out the park when it comes to casting. So they cast people a story.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

So it is all American like are there not international people in some cards?

SPEAKER_02 21:58

There's like Canadians, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

If they count. Yeah. Yeah. All of the Romanian candidate. Yeah.

Fiji Production Scale And Real Survival

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Really? That is shocking to me. So they've never like that's never been something that they've been like, hey, let's go and get people from other parts of the world.

SPEAKER_04 22:12

No, yeah. There have definitely been like some immigrants or like children of immigrants. And so they bring some of that in. But yeah, for the most part, they're all Americans.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

So casting they do well. The other thing they do well is Survivor. I know I said it it felt the same. Me returning to it, it felt the same. But like it wasn't the same. Yeah. They've added these things over the years that have really shaped the game to what we know it today. And then probably the pandemic, they were just like, let's add everything. Yeah. Like they added so many game mechanics and uh that have changed how you would do a vote or how you would form an alliance or you know how you would even think about like the game moving forward. It's really quite interesting to see how they've like innovated and evolved the game. Yeah. Um examples of this, right? Uh initially Survivor started out and you had no it like no hidden immunity idols. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_04 22:59

Well you you went to tribal council, there was nothing you could do except hope that the people you said were gonna vote with you voted with you. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

And and and seasons later, they would hide an immunity idol on the beach somewhere, right? Like, and Michael, you find this idol and you don't tell anybody about it. You've got this secret idol. And like we're all scheming to get you out of the game. But in the back pocket, literally, in your back pocket, is an idol that if you play it right, will keep you in the game. Yep. It revolutionized everything. Absolutely, yes. The game changed, and that's when I feel like the survivor that we know as a game was born, and the survivor that we knew as like an adventure kind of started to die. And now you're seeing things like um, you know, block a vote, steal a vote, uh knowledge is power, right? You could just like leave tribal council without like without participating. Like, so you've seen the game evolve with like these actions that you can win or advantages you can win. So yeah, it's it's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 23:53

Yeah. One of my favorites was Exile Exile Island. That's a hot take, Ben. I'm I'm happy to bring it out there. It was a good time. So Exile Island, they would like if your team lost the the immunity challenge, you had to pick someone from your team to send this island, or the other team would pick someone, and you're just on this island by yourself. You don't get to go, you don't get to participate in like talking with everyone about who's gonna get voted off, all this sort of stuff. Sometimes you would be brought back, sometimes you wouldn't be, but like a lot of times, like you just come back to tribal. So you've been gone for a day, day and a half, yeah, and you show up at tribal and like oh, like who are we voting for? Like what's happening? Like we're voting for me, like yeah, yeah. So you've been you've been gone for 24 hours, which is a huge amount of time in this game. Yeah. Yeah. Wild. That was a good time.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

How long do they record over? It used to be 36 days. Yep. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

It's now it's yeah, it's 26 days. 26 days. But like, yeah, it was it was a long time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

That feels like a long time to me. I mean, 26 days on an island, just you know over a month, yeah. Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

You don't feed them anymore. And no, yep. You land on this beach, you don't have any like rice or anything like that, right? You've got coconuts, but that's it. Wow. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 25:08

Yeah, whatever you can find is it like you have to win um uh flint to make fire. So if you don't win your flint, you have to try to make fire on your own. You have to win fishing gear. Like, so if you don't get that, you have to figure out how to get your own food. Otherwise, you get like what the spear guns, but not the spear guns, like the elastiky sort of ones, like not like a gun gun. Like, yeah. It's just fun. Yeah, you gotta learn how to spear fish and stuff like that. Like so, there's still some hardcore survival stuff.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

But here's the thing, I've heard the is is it as hardcore as that? Because I know that there's been jokes over the years that it's like it's not actually as as survivy as it puts is I mean, what is it? Tell me, like, is is the joke that it's you know they go to the the hotel room afterwards or whatever, like I mean, is there any truth to that that they're kind of easing it off or like it's not where where is that? I mean, I g I guess fill me in on the details there.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

So because Survivor's unique and uh oftentimes like casts fans within its own game show, which is wild, like there become these rifts where like, oh well, I played old school Survivor, which was 39 days, and you only played new school Survivor, which is 26 days. Like we had it way harder, you have it way easier. I think like in terms of a survival uh perspective, like those 39 days, they did get rice a lot of the time, they did get some support in terms of like supplies a little bit more readily. These 26-day games, it is straight up like you don't have anything, and the only way you can win it is by winning, right? Like a challenge, right? Dang. So, like that's true. And I to my knowledge, they are actually out there on the beach every night. Yeah, like that's that is for real.

SPEAKER_04 26:47

You watch these people lose weight. Yeah, they're they look like they've been out there for two weeks. Like, yeah, they need to go on the show. Like, yeah, you you you see it happen before your eyes, and like I mean, you don't see every single second, but like it's hard to imagine them like a makeup crew coming out and like dirtying these people up, or you see like bug bites and scabs all up their legs and stuff like that. You're like, uh that that seems pretty real. Like wow, cool.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

Um, I was gonna say, well, we were talking about old school versus new school. Yep. So old school, they used to have a reward challenge every episode. So like there's a chance for some food or some equipment of some sort every episode, and now it's like every three episodes. Yes, like it's fast. They've cut it way back.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Way back. And like they made a huge deal this current season that we're watching, season 50, right? Yep. Uh about Applebee's. Right? We got this nice corporate sponsor plug that Applebee's was gonna show up, and like that was a reward challenge. Strange. What a strange thing indeed. And it was strange for us viewing at home.

SPEAKER_04 27:49

Not to mention all the like uh advantages and stuff like that this season are named after people. Like I said, Zach Brown was on the show. Zach Brown was on the show.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

We got Billy Eilish Immunity Idol, which Billy Eilish hasn't said nothing about in her social medias. Was she there? No, she it was just named after her. Yep. She uh she's she's a fan of the show. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:09

The the last episode featured a Jimmy Fallon uh challenge. Jimmy Fallon challenge. And yeah, my goodness. Wow. What if they've done to my boy?

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Yeah. Survivor. Man.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Oh gosh. Well. Um, where are we at? I don't even I lost spot on our spot on our.

Best Starter Seasons For New Fans

SPEAKER_03 28:28

Let's jump to the starter pack, Nick.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Oh, a good starter packing. That's uh yeah. So what I mean, if you know, Michael and I are not fans of the show, if we were gonna jump in, should I mean would it be best just to jump in with whatever the the start of the newest season is, or where where would you start us? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

So it's kind of like Star Wars. Like there's a couple different ways that you could go about that. And neither one is really wrong, you know? It it probably comes down to your personality and what you're looking for in a TV show. I think if you want that adventure experience, right? Like, or maybe even some like semblance of like the way TV and the world used to be, going old school is not gonna not gonna disappoint you, right? Like the pace is a little bit slower, but the the show holds up. Yeah, so I mean, those earlier seasons, Ben mentioned one, it's like an all-time great. It's an earlier season, but it features great characters, and it's survivor heroes versus villains. They're all returney like characters, right? Like this is their second time, if not more, playing the game. Um, they're known for what they did on their earlier seasons. So you kind of bypass a lot of the character building, you get right straight into the gameplay, which as a viewer like speeds things up naturally.

SPEAKER_04 29:37

And the the survivors themselves have given into whatever like they've been deemed. So like yeah, yeah, they're they will fully support that character that they've become.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

Yes, I'm a villain and I'm happy, except for one villain, his name is Coach, who does not believe he's a villain, which makes it even better. So good. His name is Coach. That says a lot right there. Yeah, yeah. So that's one season I'd start with. Heroes and Villains is an all-time great. Another one that I think fans love, it might not be the best season of Survivor, but fans love watching it, is David versus Goliath. That's a good one, yeah. These themed seasons, they're really good, yeah. They do hit, they do hit. So David versus Goliath, I mean, it's kind of obvious, right? Like you've got this tribe of just juggernaut people who are winning in either physicality or in life, right? Like they're doctors, they're they're lawyers, they're buff, they're literally WWE superstars, and then you've got the Davids, which are like smart, small people. Yep. Kind of nerdy.

SPEAKER_04 30:32

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

100%. Man, that season is so good. Oh wow. The gameplay holds up and it's an easy story to tell. Yeah. How long ago was that? Was that a man? That was like, I want to say 18, somewhere in that range. Survivor 30. It's in the 30s, like in the 30 arc. So not that long ago.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

The themed ones sound really fun. I'd love to. Yeah. Uh Republican versus Democrat. Yeah, throw them in. Survivor.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Honestly. Coming soon, yeah. I hope they'd figure something out. Survivor Congress. Yes. Oh. I have hope that you'd be.

SPEAKER_04 31:02

All former government officials. Yeah. Throw them on.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Now, if you're looking for faster gameplay, like if you want, if you want to get into like the more modern era, right? I yeah, I point you to four season 45 or 47. This is one of my gripes with new Survivor, these newer seasons, is that you kind of lose this idea of a theme or a place, right? Like Survivor Africa. Wow. That has a lot of aura to it. Survivor 43, no aura to it. Yeah. Right? Like, yeah, but I would point you to Survivor 45 has one of the cleanest wins you'll ever see. Who was that? That was D. Okay, yeah. So D wins Survivor, like one of the best winners of the new era in her gameplay. Survivor 47 has a lot of like tricks that work. So if you're into like tricky strategy and gameplay and or utilizing hidden immunity titles in really innovative ways, 47 is cool for that. And then like, yeah, so I I don't know. I think that you can jump in at these multiple points and as long as you know what you're getting yourself into, have a really great time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:04

Wow, very cool. When was Winners at War? 40. 40. 40 was a good one. 40 was a good one too, then. End of the guard. Yeah. So Winners at War, they brought back all winners. So you know, you've had 40 winners. Well, 39. Because Sandra's the only. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna jump us. I know it's not in the in the the starter pack right now. We haven't really brought him up at all as is the host of Survivor. Probably Jeff. I know he's got his own fandom, probably. That's like just he does. It's the fandom of Survivor, but then the fandom of Jeff is is almost as powerful as Jeff.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

It's intense, right? Like it's hard to imagine Survivor without Jeff Propes. Yeah, yeah. Like you can you can picture him now and his ball cap and his like fisherman shirt and his khaki. Like you know Jeff. Like you've seen Jeff, you've heard Jeff. Uh what a legend. And to be doing it at the level he's done it for as long as he's done it is just crazy.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Why why do you I mean, do you think that it's just like he loves it so much? Like, do you think that they have thought of replacing him at some point? I think that they did. And I think Jeff thought about quitting at one point.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

It was kind of early. I think he was a little burnt out. Survivor wasn't giving him all that much, but once he like took reins of creative and like kind of took this producer role rather than just host, like the more he involved himself with Survivor, the more he fell in love. And this man loves Survivor. Like, I believe he loves Survivor.

SPEAKER_04 33:26

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 33:27

Yeah, he's won two Emmys for Survivor for Outstanding Hosts. No way. Yeah, yeah. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 33:32

Now I it he will be on as long as he wants. He might be on until he's 80. Yeah. Like if because he loves it that much.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

And like and then we'll get an AI Jeff. It's only a matter of time.

SPEAKER_04 33:43

Well, I was gonna say, like, the sun has not got him yet. So wow.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

That yeah, it's impressive. He's cool. Like, I do love Jeff, right? And we I think the fandom, what I've realized is I've like kind of like kind of dipped

Jeff Probst And The Jeff Effect

SPEAKER_02 33:55

my toe into the fandom a little bit more. Everyone has this love-hate relationship with Jeff. He's almost like dad to a lot of people. It's like, man, I respect that guy. And also he bothers me in so many ways, right? Like Jeff will do things that are kind of cringeworthy sometimes. But they're like, they're also so Jeff, right?

SPEAKER_04 34:11

So it's like your dad doing something cringeworthy, like you said. Like you're just like, that's just Jeff.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

God, why are you rapping, Jeff?

SPEAKER_04 34:19

He did do that this season.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

Why are you rapping? Why, why, why are you talking like this about Applebee's? What are you doing, Jeff? I don't know, but I can't look away. And that's a win for Survivor.

SPEAKER_04 34:31

Absolutely. It could not, it would not be the show it is without him, 100%. Even minus like him being an executive producer for the past 10 years or whatever, like it wouldn't be the same without him.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Agreed. I don't know what would happen after you know Jeff Hurd Hires. I don't know. I don't know. Let's not think about it. Yeah. Okay, good. Done. We're not thinking about it.

SPEAKER_04 34:48

Well, why don't we wrap up this little segment with uh we usually ask our guests to give an impassioned plea as to why anyone who may not be into the survivor fandom should join.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Got a camera right there if you want to use it.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

Oh my gosh. Impassion plea. Roll the music. Here we go. Oh my gosh. So you're looking for adventure. It's time. Come on out. We got 26 days of adventure and a ton of cool characters, right? You've got people who are out here for blood. You've got people out here for honor and integrity. You've got people out here for a million dollars, which feels like due to inflation, less than it did years ago. But it's so fun, right? Like you get to watch people who love a game and know it's a game come out here and lie to each other willingly. It's just uh it's so good. And finally, you might get to hear about Applebee's. When's the last time you went to Applebee's? When's the last time you tuned on to Survivor? Come on now, enjoy it. It's a great time, y'all. That Survivor. That was beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 35:52

That Survivor. Man, honestly, you could be you could replace Jeff.

SPEAKER_05 35:57

I'll take that.

SPEAKER_04 35:58

You were you were pulling from his like casting pitches. You know. Yeah. He so yeah, there's he has commercials like before and after like the show, like about coming on Survivor, and it was just what Matt did right there. And it was, it's it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

Come on now. Yep. That's incredible.

Podcasts YouTube And Fandom Debates

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Well, let's uh we'll take a quick break and we'll be right back.

SPEAKER_04 36:26

Ah, it's a vibe. I'm gonna backstab you.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Our very own tribal council is about to begin. Exactly. As we dive into the uh a little bit deeper into the fandom culture here. So outside of the show itself, what other content is there, Matt? Oh my gosh, there's so much.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Just on the way in, I was listening to a uh an interview by somebody who was voted out last night, right? Done by the incredible people at Rob has a podcast. He is kind of like the grandfather of Survivor Fandom, is Rob Sesternino, a former Survivor player. He was a fan first who became a player who then now runs this podcast industry for all reality TV, but he specializes in survivors. So listening to him, other ones would be Tyson Apostle, another Survivor player. His podcast is called The Pod Has Spoken. Nice. It's very funny, dry wit, it's it's great. And then you've got several others, right? There's YouTube channels like Idled Out, there's YouTube channels like Drop Your Buffs, where you get these different perspectives of the game from people who are like me and people who are not like me at all, right? And it's cool to see that you can like Survivor for different reasons, right? And I can see that there's there's fandom and passion regardless of your background, which is cool. So a lot. Um, and I have just freed myself to enjoy it all, which is kind of fun, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Like giving into the fandom fold, totally given in and like jumped in, and it's it's really fun now. Would you say that that's I mean, I I'm trying to imagine, especially somebody outside of the fandom. I guess what what comes to my mind is the amount of sports talk shows that there are. Is it I mean, is that kind of what it is in like these podcasts?

SPEAKER_02 38:04

Totally what it is, and but but the difference being like when these players leave the game, right? Like they're just normal people, like they're going back to do their job as whatever it may be. And it's jobs that it like we do at House Table. You know, like there was an admissions guy, his name was Owen, right? He played, he was he's well liked enough, the community likes him, and like I can I follow Owen on LinkedIn or connected on LinkedIn because I work in admissions, he works like that's different, right? Like funny, right? You know, I you can you can like these people for yes, because they played Survivor, but also because you can see yourself in them, which is cool. So, yeah, sure. Uh they're a little bit more willing to drop their guard and have these like real interviews and interactions with fans, which is cool.

SPEAKER_04 38:42

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 38:43

That is really cool. Would you say, I mean, okay, so two questions. Do you have any hot takes as it pertains to the overall fandom? And then part two is if you don't, have you heard of any? Like what are in within the fan, what are the hot takes that are out there?

SPEAKER_02 38:57

Totally. I I do think that there's probably in all fandoms, but definitely in Survivor, there's kind of this gap between the casual viewer and like the people who love it, right? Uh the casual viewer I think likes Survivor enough and isn't bothered by certain twists. The the hardcore Survivor fan kind of hates the twists, right? Like, and Survivor right now and in recent memory has been all about the twists. Oh, yeah, 100%. Love the twists, right? And and uh and I think the casual viewer at home is like twists are fun. But like the person who views Survivor like a sport, to your point, or like a game, or like a show that involves strategy, hates the in like unpredictability of the twists.

SPEAKER_04 39:37

Imagine a referee telling you that you have to switch teams halfway through the game. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's the sort of twist that'll happen. Like you have to pick three people from your team to send over to the other team, and you get three of theirs. Like there's stuff like that, that shenanigans like that that happen every season.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

So I think the hot take there is that yeah, like the fandom loves Survivor, and the fandom is also like almost always angry about what's happening on Survivor. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

But that was honestly that's a that's every fandom. I mean, yeah, I'm so angry at Star Wars right now. Same. Yeah. It never goes away. It never goes away, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

But it's always I'm perpetually angry. Yeah, yeah. That's I mean, it sounds like it's every fandom, but for sure it's Survivor 2. Um, I mean, other hot takes, uh not really. Uh the the interesting thing about Survivor and like how to win the show, and I think this is what really makes it unique, is that you have to vote out the people who will then vote for you to win the game, right?

SPEAKER_04 40:32

Yeah. As we mentioned, when it gets down to the final 11, usually, once instead of like getting voted out and going home, you get voted out and go to Ponderosa, which is like the headquarters, you get to stay in the hotel and you come back for tribal councils. So you get to watch the tribal councils, you get to see them like during tribal councils, Jeff usually takes like 20 to 30 minutes and to ask questions. You don't see all of it, but like they there's a good half an hour of interviews between Jeff and the current survivors still out there. So you as a council member get to witness all of this, and then when it gets down to the final three, that you you as a finalist plead your case to the people that you voted out. Impassioned plea. Impassioned plea, yeah. 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

I I'm still hung up on Ponderosa, like the like the old steakhouse. That's what it's called.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

And honestly, from what I've heard, what from what I've heard, you get what you want. Like you've been voted out of the game. So sorry, like your million dollars is gone. But also, here's unlimited stake. Yeah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:28

If I were ever on Survivor, my goal is not to win. My butt my goal is to get to the jury. So I can just stay a week or two in Ponderosa. That sounds like you were saying that?

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Like they go back to the hotel every day and like hang out. That sounds amazing.

SPEAKER_04 41:40

That's kind of one of the best things to see them come back like from like being out there for like three weeks, and then they come back and they're all showered and clean and groomed and like in like nice outfits, and like just like like just sitting on the side, just like, yeah, yeah, my belly's full. I got a good night's sleep in a bed, not on uh bamboo.

SPEAKER_02 41:59

Like I think that jury setup though has like led to some controversy within the fandom too, like or within the casual viewer, where it's like, okay, was that a deserving winner? Right, like because there's a million different ways you can win Survivor, and your way of winning and my way of winning might be different, and it's a it's up to a jury to determine who won Survivor or better, yeah, right? Like who won that season? Yeah, like so it's very subjective.

SPEAKER_03 42:22

It sounds like subjective, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:24

Did I make the jury angry by how I played? Did I play too hard? And did I scar too many people?

SPEAKER_04 42:28

Yeah, or it's completely uh dependent upon that jury. Some juries will be like, I want to see that you made moves, that you backstabbed people, that you like worked your butt off. And some people are like, Were you true to your word? Were you

Jury Power Ponderosa And Winning

SPEAKER_04 42:40

honorable? Were you like a good player? Like, so it's just completely up to the contestants, like as to what sort of season you're gonna get.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

Yeah, the win rationale changes like the the how you win changes every year based on who you're playing with, which is cool.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

Yeah, yeah. Well, that kind of sounds like it. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt, but when you're asking, you know, what keeps this show like fresh and different, I mean that just what you just said, like is varied. I can see that being so different. I mean, even just season to season, like so. That's pretty cool. I mean, I don't I can't think of any other game shows that really have that like sort of dynamic to it.

SPEAKER_04 43:12

Yeah, yeah. It's completely in the hands of the contestants. Yeah, there's no uh like there's no fan voting, there's no Jeff doesn't have his own involvement. Yep. The only time that's up to like random chances when it comes to rocks, which has only happened what, three times?

SPEAKER_02 43:25

Yeah, yeah, not not often. Not often.

SPEAKER_04 43:27

Rocks so if there's a tie in tribal, yep, then you have to vote again, but you can only vote for the people who were tied. Yep. If there's another tie, then it goes to rocks, right?

SPEAKER_02 43:37

Yeah. Which means you're just drawing rocks out of a bag, and whoever draws the wrong color, they're done. They're going out.

SPEAKER_04 43:44

The twist is that if it goes to rocks, those two people who were tied to be voted out do not have to draw. They're actually safe. They're safe. So yeah, what are you?

SPEAKER_00 43:53

So the people that were voted like the got the most.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

There's a tie between you and Ben. Uh huh. We've gone to rocks. The rocks are actually between me and Michael. Wow, that's fun. I like that. So you you don't want to tie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:06

It's an incentive for that tiebreaker to someone has to like switch sides so that we're not like because otherwise, like I'm up for like yeah, getting voted off, even though like no one vote wrote my name down.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

Well, before we go into our our larger discussion, I know you brought a couple of things that uh are here on the table. I'd love you know, tell the tell the listeners a little bit about what you brought for us.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

You got Survivor, the official game. The official game. The tribe has spoken. This is designed by Jeff Probst. By Jeff Probst. I think honestly, he probably stamped his name on it, and it's actually designed by the company that did Exploding Canton kittens. So it's like a fun fast card game where you can play Survivor around your kitchen table. You there's a voting element. You can vote out, you know, your friend, your mom, your sister. It's cool. Um, I've never won. I've played it twice. Nice. And I feel like I have to beg people in the room to play it only for me to lose. It's great. Uh, and then here we've got a book. This is a new book that came out this year by a former Survivor player, Steven Fishback. He's also a 15-year podcast host. Uh, on that, Rob has a podcast platform. It's his the title is Survivor Know It Alls, is his podcast. And this book is called Escape. So it's his first foray into writing a novel, and it's loosely about what it's like to be on a reality TV show. Uh, both as a contestant, as a washed-out contestant, and also as a producer has to make a really good TV show. So it's some ethics uh at play there. And I'm 30 pages in. I love it. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 45:34

Okay, cool. You said it just came out too. It just came out. Yeah. Awesome. Hot off the presses. Wow. Very cool. Well, Nick, why don't you take us into your favorite

Would You Rather Strategy Questions

SPEAKER_04 45:42

segment? Would you rather segment? Oh, it's yours?

SPEAKER_00 45:44

Okay. I love this segment. We all love what he's right. Would you rather? All right. Let's uh let's kick it off here. I want to thank Ben for these questions because uh he he's the you know the person of us that knows the most about survivors, so not me. Um, but let's go ahead and get us kicked off. Would you rather find a hidden immunity idol early or win immunity at the final five? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 46:07

So this assume I'm going to assume I'm it's is binary. I only win this or I only win that, right? Okay. I would rather win the immunity idol early. The early idol, have it in the back pocket of safety throughout the game. Assuming I could keep it a secret, wow, what an advantage. The the the guaranteed immunity at Final Five is pretty great. That is great, but there's something about having a hidden immunity idol that lets me get a little fancy, right? Like, let's say I'm in an alliance with you, right? We're in an alliance together and I catch wind that you're in trouble.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

Right? Me having that hidden immunity idol, I can play that for you and keep you safe and if I need to, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:50

I like the way that you're thinking because I was thinking more like deceptive, like you're holding on to it, and then like, oh, I'm gonna use it to do something that's extra sneaky that's gonna get everybody to vote for me. But just kidding, nah, man.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

I'm keeping this bond strong. We're going deep in the game. I gotta keep you safe, right? And that allows me to do that. While this, this the immunity win is cool. It's just such a personal accolade that also kind of puts a target on your back in a weird way.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

So yeah. Would you rather go to tribal council every time pre-merge or never go until merge? And for me who does not know what that question means, explain what that means.

SPEAKER_02 47:27

Yeah, I getting to the merge in Survivor is like kind of like everyone's dream. A landmark. It's a landmark achievement, right? You made it on the show, that's an achievement in and of itself. But like getting to the point where there's no tribes anymore, and you're you're a merged tribe of one, sorry, guys. Merge tribe of one is it's awesome, right? The game changes a lot. Right, you get more airtime. It's cool. All right.

SPEAKER_04 47:53

So the number of people that you know from pre-merge, like there's a steep drop-off if you ask me to name some of the survivors from pre-merge. Couldn't do it. Yep, nope.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

But I can name a lot after the merge, which is cool. So I would rather go to tribal every single time before the merge.

SPEAKER_04 48:09

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

I would. Because I I think those players do well at the end of the game. Assuming that you can survive tribal council every time until those tribes merge, assuming you survive, you have a pretty good shot at making it to the end of the game.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

So hold on, maybe I'm I'm misunderstanding. I thought the tribal council was for all the contestants. Do only some people go to tribal council? Yeah. Early in the game, it's the losing tribe.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

So, like let's say we're broken into three groups, right? That third group that loses the challenge, they're often going to tribal council. Yep. So I would like to be part of that tribe in this, you know, would you rather question? And get me some experience, right? Like going to tribal council, slitting some throats, yeah, yeah. Backstabbing, give me some practice reps before we get to the merge, right? And like make me like a free agent weapon.

SPEAKER_04 48:59

Because it's almost like the merge is like when the game really starts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

So the the tribal council is the elimination. Totally. Yes, essentially.

SPEAKER_04 49:06

Because then once you merge, everyone goes to tribal council every time. Yeah. Some circumstances change that, but for the most part, everyone goes to every tribal council after that. Also, I would love to be on TV that many times.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

Exactly. Uh, would you rather deal with bugs constantly or extreme heat all day? Uh those are both bad. Guys, what would you rather hear?

SPEAKER_02 49:28

This is one we can all speak to.

SPEAKER_03 49:30

Uh I'm gonna go with extreme heat. The bugs, I that's a struggle for me.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

I don't I don't do well in the heat as a as a big man, you know. Like I would give me 70 degrees and bug bites. Exactly. The weather's nice. All right, some bugs. As long as it's not gonna kill me, I guess. Like what yeah, give me the bug bites, I guess. I think I'd take the heat too.

SPEAKER_04 49:51

I think I would also take the heat.

SPEAKER_02 49:53

I think I'd take the heat. Oh man, it's just there's no winning. I mean, let's be real, but yeah, no, there is no winning. There's there's interesting things about bugs and survivors. Like um, the first ever season. Have you guys heard of Boston Rob? One of the all-screen greats.

SPEAKER_03 50:07

Yeah, I I've definitely heard that like name before.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

Like he wears a Boston Red Sox hat, right? Like, he's like the prototypical survivor guy. If there was a Mount Rushmore Boston, Boston guy. Yes. Did they have a Boston accent too? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:21

His name is Rob Maraschino. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:24

Mariano. Mariano, that's it. Something like that. Boston Rob. Anyway, Boston Rob, like his first season, they went to this uh Marquesis Islands, and like what they weren't anticipating as in the crew, nobody was anticipating the amount of bugs on this island. They've never been back. They've never been back because these guys were just like, it looked bad. Bitten up all over. It's great. It's great.

SPEAKER_04 50:48

And again, a sign that it's pretty real.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

Yeah, sure. And why do stay in Fiji? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

Another reason. Uh, would you rather be remembered as iconic but lose or forgettable but win? That's a that's a good question, honestly. I bet you can see where I'm going.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

Iconic but lose. Yeah. Okay. A hundred percent. I see that. If I'm going on this show, I want to be remembered for being on the show, right? Like, I don't know. Yeah. I, you know, the money's cool.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

Money's cool, but like I want to be remembered. I'm thinking about like some of your favorite like American Idol contestants. Like, I don't remember the winners, but boy, do I remember some of the sheep? She bangs, pants on the ground.

SPEAKER_04 51:29

Oh, we're not even talking people who went far but didn't win. We're talking about the icons, man. Icons.

SPEAKER_02 51:34

What about you guys? Would you rather have the money and and no one remember?

SPEAKER_04 51:38

I'd be okay with that, honestly. I'd take the money too. I'm not going on there to get famous personally, but and that's why I'm not going on anymore because it's all about getting famous than it's a good thing. It really is.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

Yeah, it really is. I have steep competition for casting. I'd be okay with I can't iconic but lose. That'd be that'd be funny. As long as it's not iconic for the wrong reasons. Right, right, right. Would you rather get caught whispering secrets or trip and fall while trying to sneak off to strategize?

SPEAKER_02 52:04

Oh no. See, like I think what would get me in hot water in real life is getting caught whispering secrets. Like that would be what happened to me. Uh so yeah, I'll take trip and fall. I'll take trip and fall. And that maybe that's what makes me iconic.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

Uh would you rather misread every advantage or be too scared to use any of them?

SPEAKER_02 52:25

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Yet again, misread every advantage. What is what is it? Like, can you explain that to me a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 52:32

All right. So you're walking through the woods and you find this package, right? Like it's hidden. And they're like this big. They're tiny. Just wrapped up in papyrus a lot of something like beware on them, right? Like beware. So it's an advantage. You know it's an advantage, but you know it's going to cost you something, right? Like you unravel it and you have to read them out loud to the camera in the moment. So you're like hot, you're getting stung by mosquitoes.

SPEAKER_04 52:54

You're trying to like watch for other people who might see you get these things.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

I imagine I'd stumble over my words, and like producers would be like, Cut, we you have to reread it, right? Like that's gonna happen a million times.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

But yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 53:09

So you read it and you said it costs you something, is the beware advantage, which has been the past five years or so.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

Like an example would be like, all right, you got this advantage, but uh you're gonna lose your vote until you do X, Y, or Z, right? So like you can't vote at the next tribal council until you complete this mini challenge or this task or something and you can't get caught.

SPEAKER_04 53:31

Like some of them are like, we've hidden a clue underneath your tribe's camp. Like you have to go dig it up while no one is in camp or awake. And yeah, there's there's some tricky things that you gotta do out there.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

And if you do it, great, you've earned yourself immunity, a hidden immunity idol. And if you don't do it, you can't vote at the next tribal council, right? Like there's these little things that the producers do to try to get you.

SPEAKER_04 53:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 53:53

And when you're on a tri like early on, if when you're on a tribe and there's only like six people, that's huge if you don't have your vote because like yeah, that's that's your power. One third of the ability to send someone home, essentially. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

Wow. Well, let's uh let's spend our

Iconic Moments Winners And Season 50

SPEAKER_03 54:10

last few minutes kind of just in the larger group discussion. Um, I'll kick us off here. What's the grossest thing that you have seen someone eat on the show?

SPEAKER_02 54:18

Oh man. We have it's they've moved away from this. They have, yeah. They've moved away from this, but I mean, I gotta say this is maybe just my millennial self, my millennial city boy person stuff. But like killing the chicken does gross me out. Yeah. Sometimes they're gifted a chicken and like a reward challenge. Like, congrats. You have a uh an egg-laying hen. Yeah, and a lot of times they can't hold themselves back. They have to kill this thing because they're hungry.

SPEAKER_04 54:43

It's either, yeah, you get you get an egg every day or you get a decent sized chicken for yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:48

And I know that makes me sound soft because I know how chicken, I know how my McChicken was made, right? I know it's not a good one. Well, it came from a tube, but that was a real chicken. Right, that's true. But there is something uh about like killing something to feed yourself, like that's hard. I mean, in earlier seasons, you're eating like fish guts and you know all this stuff, and that's gross. But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:07

Well, they used to they used to do this thing called the auction. That was a big thing they used to do every time. And so you were given like 200 bucks or something like that, and there's a typical auction, but when the auction's over, it's over, and whatever money you have left is gone. So you use this money to bid on things, and they're often like food items. But sometimes it'll be like, I'm gonna put this covered basket down. You know there's food under there, but you don't know what. Yeah. And so you're bidding on this thing without knowing, and a lot of times it's like I know it's like giant like fish eyes or like I'm trying to think of something other things. Baloo, I think, was a really gross thing you had to do.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Oh gosh. Were any of you guys Fear Factor fans? Like, of course. That sort of stuff, yeah. Fear factor factor vibes, for sure. Oh gosh. Who who do you feel is the most deserving winner of all time? Oh man. The most the hard one.

SPEAKER_03 56:01

The most deserving winner. And they've got 49 winners to choose from.

SPEAKER_02 56:05

There's so many winners. The most deserving winner. I mean, Kim Spradlin played like a perfect game. She's like regarded as playing the perfect. I don't think anyone voted against her. Yeah, right? Like she won without taking you know, without making anyone mad, without being on anyone's radar. Like, that's a perfect game. It's also kind of a boring game, right? Like, you're so good at the game that like no one thought of you as being a threat. Wasn't Colby also that way? Colby was also the way he never won.

SPEAKER_05 56:31

He didn't win.

SPEAKER_02 56:31

Oh no, he didn't win. He was a honorable man who gave it to Tina. Um, made it at the final three, and like, yeah, ended up giving the game to an older woman. Yeah, right, which was so honorable in the moment. So he won the Hearts of America. But didn't win a million bucks. Did not win a million bucks. I would say he probably got more than that in the long run, let's be real. Like it was I think Parvity, when she won her season, like was well deserved, right? She had this dream of like winning with all female finalists, and like she led this thing, like a strategic powerhouse of an alliance called the Black Widow Brigade. Yes, which nice amazing name. Yeah, also the branding, the branding alone.

SPEAKER_04 57:11

That was the season with Eric, right? Yes, yes, one of my favorite characters. You're gonna have to tell tell them about what happened with Eric.

SPEAKER_02 57:16

Yeah, because that's that's gonna be on here for sure. Eric's Eric will come back.

SPEAKER_04 57:19

Okay, well let's go ahead and just talk about it now, is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 57:22

Just yeah, because Eric, one of the most iconic moments of Survivor ever. Talk about being remembered, right? Like not winning, but being remembered forever. This is his name's Eric. He's on this season that Parvity won, right? She goes on to be the leader of the Black Widow Brigade and take out all the men. Yep. Eric is the last remaining man, right?

SPEAKER_04 57:41

It's like him and four girls, five girls, like five women, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 57:45

So it's the final six. Eric's there, he's representing the fans. This was a themed season where it was fans versus favorites. All right, so you had some returners, like returning players, and then some fans of the show who are competing against this other drive of returners. Yeah. Eric's our final standing man. Eric is a bit of a physical threat. Like he's winning immunity challenges, right? He's he's out there, he's competing, he's freakishly tall. His he's an ice cream scooper. Well, and he's wasn't he like a runner, too, like a long distance runner. So lots of stamina, lots of like, yeah. In his real life, he's an ice cream scooper, which is just fun. He was like 19. So, like, yeah. He was 19, truly. So anyway, this alliance, they're like, Eric, you're safe, you're safe. It's fine. Like, we like you, you're you're cool to be here. And then he finally wins like immunity, right? And he's realizing, like, oh, there's people in this game I'd rather play with, right? And this alliance of women totally fleece him, right? And they get him to give up his immunity necklace and give it to one of the girls, and they immediately vote him out. Wow, it was intentional, it was crazy.

SPEAKER_04 58:49

It was dang such a devious move, but so iconic.

SPEAKER_02 58:52

Such good gameplay from Parvity, from Cree, from like the rest of the the women, Amanda Kimmel, like legends of the game, and he has the the ultimate like would you be remembered as iconic? I Eric is iconic for all the wrong reasons, yes.

SPEAKER_04 59:05

Oh no, he could have easily won the game. He was well liked for the most part, like goofy guy, like didn't know wrong, yeah, and just I don't know, gave away immunity.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

Wow, yeah, yeah. That's for what? Like, genuinely don't know.

SPEAKER_04 59:21

He was trying to be a nice guy. I think one of the girls turned on like the waterworks a little bit. Uh-huh. Like, I'm gonna get voted off. I really need to win this, like, sort of thing. Like, and he's and she's like, I know that if you give it to me, like no one else is gonna vote for you. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:35

Dang, that's messed up. It is messed up.

SPEAKER_04 59:37

That is messed up. Crazy.

SPEAKER_02 59:39

She's so good though. Anyway, that's why poverty is a deserving winner, too. Yeah, because like she led the charge on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:46

And she was always a little bit of a like devious player, yeah. But like that was like one of her ultimate moves. Like coordinating that was crazy. Insane. Oh man. Okay, well, speaking of icons of the game, like, so obviously we're still in Fiji, but like what's the most iconic location to you? Which is there a particular season that like stands out to you that you're like that, like had the right setting.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:08

I think Africa was nuts. Yeah. It was nuts for its time, it's nuts today to think about doing a reality TV show in Africa in the year 2003 or something. Like the plains of Africa, like Serengeti, like you're out there, like lions were in the trailer. You're just like, whether or not they're reliants, I don't know. But like they're to my- I think hyenas came close once. Yeah, my young self, I'm like, they're out there in Africa. Like that's nuts, and that's it's hard to top Africa. Yeah. Australia is also cool, right? Like, there's these early seasons that are just super cool, yeah. Um, iconic.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:40

But I'm trying to remember for me, like uh the two they did two seasons in China, I think, but there was one specific where it was just like they were around a lake the whole time. So it was like one of the few like non-tropical locations, non-oceanside locations, and it was just like raining the whole time and just like stuff like that. It's like it's iconic just because it was like miserable for all the contestants. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:00

You're like, I don't want to be there, but wow, yeah. Well, we are just about out of time. I'll ask one more question here. Um, what would be your personal item that you brought to the island?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:12

Personal item brought to the island? A big old Texas flag.

unknown 1:01:17

Okay. No, no.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:19

That is legitimately something someone brought.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

That is something someone brought very helpful. You know, I I would bring probably a picture, like a picture book of family. Like, remember why I'm out there? I don't know if that's allowed, but I think that's a good thing. I'm sure it is.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:34

It's not like it's a survival item, like I'm not bringing a hatchet. Like Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:37

I mean, it'd be cool to see like Lindsay and and Augie and then my mom who got me into the show, like, and remember like why I'm out there for 26 days lying to people. Right? Pictures of us. Yeah. Pictures of you guys, right? Remember the like logo. Quick product placement. Yeah. I think that's what I'd bring.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:57

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:57

Very cool. Uh, so we're in the middle of season 50, yeah. Matt, like, so that's kind of like the next big thing. And I saw that they are already renewed for 51, which is not a surprise. No. But what are your predictions for the rest of season 50?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:09

Oh man, season 50.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:10

We're down to like, what, 10 left right now?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:12

Yeah. It's a mess. What a fun mess. I, you know, like, is it good TV? Is it good survivor? I don't know, but I'm smiling the entire time I'm watching it. So, like, that's good enough, right? Um, we're down to the finals. Uh, one of the best players to never win the game. Her name is Sari. She's looking so strong right now. Oh, she's back. She's back. This is her fourth time playing. Oh my gosh. She's never won. She's made it the game. She always goes deep, though. She always goes deep. Her social strategy game is unparalleled, like unmatched. She's everyone's best friend. She's incredible. So I think that this could be her season. This could be her season. I have a good feeling about Sari.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:45

Does she ever talk about the Black Widow Brigade?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

All the time. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's she's so cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:51

She was on the first season of the Traitors, too.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:53

Wait, so she was a part of that same. I was. She was a part of the Black Widow Brigade. Legend. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:57

She is a legend for her social game. Like physically, no. But like again, she'll she makes it to every single final five, probably. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:07

She's insane. I can't imagine four times being on the show. Yeah, that is crazy.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:11

I think she does have the record for most days.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:13

Most consecutive days not being voted off. Yeah. Wow. Crazy. Huh. Very cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:17

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Matt. It's been a blast. I want to keep talking. Me too. Me too. Thank you guys. This is great.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

We really appreciate you coming on, man. Well, we've talked about uh the next big thing for uh for Survivor. What about the next big thing for fandom of fandoms?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:34

Yeah, so I think we're gonna talk golden girls.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:36

Yes. Wow. This is me. I'm bringing in this guest here. I'm uh I'm excited. We're gonna talk to my friend Kristen um about uh man, that's a a dated fandom. Yeah, you know what? More than one. But dude, it's uh man, I I I love me some golden girls, and I'm excited to to talk with somebody about it and kind of see um, you know, obviously there there was a lot. It was a uh popular show at its time and then has continued to have popularity long, long after shoot, all the stars are gone. Like that's and it's still, I feel like. Betty White did pass. Yeah, so I don't think I knew that. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that happened a while a little while ago. Wow. I'm out of the loop. Yeah, Michael's

Next Fandom And Final CTAs

SPEAKER_00 1:04:20

Michael's not been paying attention. It was a sad day in America. He doesn't have social media. Yeah, I've been on social media in years. That's a good point. Yeah, but yeah, no, we'll we'll be excited to talk some some golden girls. And uh yeah, kind of like kind of like Gilmore girls, we did that. It's uh, you know, we're bringing bringing in the female perspective. So let's go ahead. With that, we'll call it a night. Thanks, guys, for listening. Uh thank you, Matt, again for being here. We appreciate you. And uh until next time.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:48

Well, we hope you enjoyed hearing about today's fandom. Thanks for joining us. Give us a follow on Instagram or threads at FOF.pod to stay up to date with all the latest, and check out the video version on YouTube at fandomoffandoms. Have a fandom that you want us to dive into? Send us an email at fandomofpodcast at gmail.com. Until our next adventure, I keep being passionate, keep being curious, and keep being a fan.