{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.209,"endTime":4.489,"body":"You're listening to for the Record, a registrar podcast sponsored by"},{"startTime":4.869,"endTime":5.039,"body":"Acro,"},{"startTime":5.349,"endTime":9.39,"body":"I'm Hannah Rounds curriculum analyst at the University of Iowa"},{"startTime":9.779,"endTime":10.72,"body":"and I'm Jackie de Millet"},{"startTime":10.88,"endTime":12.649,"body":"Registrar services coordinator"},{"startTime":12.819,"endTime":14.13,"body":"at the University of Iowa"},{"startTime":14.239,"endTime":17.149,"body":"and this is teaching out the college closure."},{"startTime":25.75,"endTime":27.959,"body":"Hello, welcome to for the Record."},{"startTime":27.969,"endTime":28.559,"body":"I'm your host,"},{"startTime":28.569,"endTime":32.61,"body":"Doug mckenna University Registrar at George Mason University in Fairfax,"},{"startTime":32.619,"endTime":33.259,"body":"Virginia."},{"startTime":33.689,"endTime":36.169,"body":"Today we're going to revisit a topic from"},{"startTime":36.18,"endTime":39.389,"body":"an earlier season with a slightly different lens."},{"startTime":39.65,"endTime":44.959,"body":"So way back in season four in October of 2021 it was episode six."},{"startTime":44.97,"endTime":46.25,"body":"It'll be linked in the show notes,"},{"startTime":46.68,"endTime":50.04,"body":"Raymond Nation shared her experience with being the"},{"startTime":50.049,"endTime":53.18,"body":"registrar at an institution that was closing."},{"startTime":53.31,"endTime":57.099,"body":"And today we're going to hear all about the receiving institutions,"},{"startTime":57.11,"endTime":59.459,"body":"experience of institutional closures."},{"startTime":59.59,"endTime":63.7,"body":"So let's bring on our guests for today from the University of Iowa. Hannah, Jackie."},{"startTime":63.709,"endTime":65.138,"body":"-- Welcome to the"},{"startTime":63.709,"endTime":65.138,"body":"-- podcast."},{"startTime":65.388,"endTime":68.11,"body":"Thanks for having us Doug. We really appreciate being here."},{"startTime":68.309,"endTime":70.849,"body":"-- Thanks,"},{"startTime":68.309,"endTime":70.849,"body":"-- Doug, great to be here."},{"startTime":71.08,"endTime":71.66,"body":"Awesome."},{"startTime":71.9,"endTime":75.25,"body":"Would you to kick us off, introduce yourselves"},{"startTime":75.37,"endTime":80.199,"body":"and tell us a little bit about your institution? So, Jackie, let's go to you first."},{"startTime":80.599,"endTime":84.26,"body":"Sure. I'm Jackie and I work as a registrar services coordinator at the University of"},{"startTime":84.44,"endTime":84.72,"body":"Iowa."},{"startTime":85.089,"endTime":85.73,"body":"My role,"},{"startTime":85.739,"endTime":91.279,"body":"primary duties involve working with closed institutions and how we"},{"startTime":91.29,"endTime":94.319,"body":"intake them at the University of Iowa as repository."},{"startTime":94.68,"endTime":99.379,"body":"A little bit about me is that I've spent almost seven years at the University of Iowa"},{"startTime":99.55,"endTime":104.69,"body":"and I have previous experience in the North Dakota University system as well as"},{"startTime":105.19,"endTime":109.29,"body":"admissions offices. Athletics, academics, residents life."},{"startTime":109.4,"endTime":111.25,"body":"I'm kind of like your higher ed pro."},{"startTime":111.36,"endTime":115.319,"body":"-- You've been all over? Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Nice."},{"startTime":111.36,"endTime":115.319,"body":"-- Well, welcome Hannah."},{"startTime":115.43,"endTime":119.44,"body":"So I'm Hannah Rounds and I've worked at the University of Iowa for about 10"},{"startTime":119.62,"endTime":120.449,"body":"years now"},{"startTime":120.779,"endTime":124.559,"body":"and I've been in the registrar's office since 2017."},{"startTime":125.029,"endTime":128.788,"body":"I currently work as a curriculum analyst on the degree audit team,"},{"startTime":128.8,"endTime":131.369,"body":"but I came to the registrar's office and worked"},{"startTime":131.38,"endTime":133.61,"body":"on their course in classroom scheduling team first."},{"startTime":133.66,"endTime":139.25,"body":"So last May, I earned my master's in educational policy and leadership studies"},{"startTime":139.5,"endTime":142.96,"body":"with a higher ed and student affairs focus. Thank you."},{"startTime":143.089,"endTime":145.759,"body":"And that's where a lot of my interest in the"},{"startTime":145.899,"endTime":149.8,"body":"policy aspect of the college closure started to arise."},{"startTime":150.21,"endTime":153.899,"body":"Very cool and we'll dig into that somewhat throughout the conversation. So,"},{"startTime":154.009,"endTime":156.32,"body":"welcome to both of you. Thank you for being here."},{"startTime":156.529,"endTime":159.839,"body":"Tell us a little bit about the University of Iowa itself."},{"startTime":159.85,"endTime":162.559,"body":"-- What is your institution like?"},{"startTime":159.85,"endTime":162.559,"body":"-- Thanks, Doug."},{"startTime":162.77,"endTime":166.5,"body":"So the University of Iowa is in Iowa City, Iowa"},{"startTime":166.77,"endTime":170.55,"body":"and we are the state's oldest institution of higher education."},{"startTime":170.86,"endTime":174.139,"body":"We're classified as an R one research university."},{"startTime":174.33,"endTime":177.83,"body":"And we're also known for being a member of the big 10 conference."},{"startTime":178.22,"endTime":183.49,"body":"Iowa offers more than 200 majors to its over 31,000 students."},{"startTime":183.759,"endTime":187.449,"body":"We have undergraduate graduate and professional programs"},{"startTime":187.88,"endTime":190.5,"body":"and Iowa is known as the number one"},{"startTime":190.509,"endTime":193.779,"body":"public university for writing for the disciplines."},{"startTime":193.96,"endTime":198.02,"body":"And we're also renowned as one of the best academic hospitals in the US."},{"startTime":198.199,"endTime":202.21,"body":"And for listeners who may be wondering why are University"},{"startTime":202.22,"endTime":204.759,"body":"of Iowa staff here to talk about college quot?"},{"startTime":205.449,"endTime":209.425,"body":"It's because of our role as the state of Iowa's student record"},{"startTime":209.595,"endTime":212.315,"body":"or closed institutional record depository,"},{"startTime":212.445,"endTime":215.016,"body":"which Jackie is here to talk more about today."},{"startTime":215.235,"endTime":217.835,"body":"-- So"},{"startTime":215.235,"endTime":217.835,"body":"-- the University of Iowa is designated by"},{"startTime":217.845,"endTime":222.826,"body":"the State Law Chapter 264 as the repository"},{"startTime":223.026,"endTime":226.166,"body":"for closed institution academic records,"},{"startTime":226.216,"endTime":229.651,"body":"which means when an institution closes or has been closed,"},{"startTime":229.662,"endTime":233.972,"body":"we obtain those records to make them available for historic purposes"},{"startTime":234.141,"endTime":237.611,"body":"or also for transcript requests when necessary."},{"startTime":237.942,"endTime":238.852,"body":"Let's be clear"},{"startTime":239.072,"endTime":240.772,"body":"just in the state of Iowa,"},{"startTime":241.222,"endTime":241.572,"body":"right"},{"startTime":244.662,"endTime":245.481,"body":"everywhere"},{"startTime":245.751,"endTime":249.162,"body":"around the globe, everyone sending their stuff to Iowa. That's funny."},{"startTime":249.94,"endTime":250.49,"body":"Ok."},{"startTime":250.72,"endTime":254.86,"body":"And to kick things off and sort of provide some of that framing for the episode today."},{"startTime":254.869,"endTime":261.358,"body":"Let's start with the CEO report. Is that how you say it SHEEO"},{"startTime":261.73,"endTime":265.899,"body":"that was issued on institutional closures. And maybe you could"},{"startTime":266.26,"endTime":269.45,"body":"highlight some of the findings from that report,"},{"startTime":270.48,"endTime":273.64,"body":"the report that you're referencing the XO report"},{"startTime":273.679,"endTime":278.95,"body":"which stands for State Higher Education Executive Officers Association"},{"startTime":279.429,"endTime":281.5,"body":"and over the last year or so,"},{"startTime":282.07,"endTime":284.579,"body":"Xio has issued three different reports."},{"startTime":284.98,"endTime":290.38,"body":"A longitudinal trip part series highlighting college closures which"},{"startTime":290.39,"endTime":293.859,"body":"represents an increasing area of concern for higher education."},{"startTime":294.429,"endTime":295.76,"body":"In their first report,"},{"startTime":296.23,"endTime":303.44,"body":"Xio revealed that over 467 institutions closed between 2004 and 2020."},{"startTime":303.609,"endTime":307.66,"body":"And while closures were a concern. Prior to COVID-19,"},{"startTime":307.869,"endTime":309.019,"body":"research from"},{"startTime":309.269,"endTime":313.459,"body":"Xio revealed that the pandemic has exacerbated the inevitable."},{"startTime":313.549,"endTime":318.399,"body":"Scholars noted that a lot of the emergency funding provided to institutions"},{"startTime":318.614,"endTime":323.165,"body":"may have been a band aid on things but isn't necessarily stopping the problem."},{"startTime":323.364,"endTime":323.954,"body":"So"},{"startTime":324.795,"endTime":328.605,"body":"as a result from their report, we're seeing a few things, for example,"},{"startTime":328.614,"endTime":331.845,"body":"we may see more trends leading to college mergers,"},{"startTime":332.075,"endTime":335.084,"body":"but because sometimes closures are inevitable,"},{"startTime":335.135,"endTime":338.105,"body":"we're seeing these continue at a steady pace"},{"startTime":338.234,"endTime":342.605,"body":"which means that the risk to students, staff and faculty increase as well."},{"startTime":343.054,"endTime":343.684,"body":"Ok."},{"startTime":344.084,"endTime":346.684,"body":"There are a bunch of different reasons that an institution"},{"startTime":346.945,"endTime":348.325,"body":"would or could close."},{"startTime":348.609,"endTime":354.489,"body":"So do they all look the same? Like are closures pretty consistent?"},{"startTime":354.5,"endTime":358.549,"body":"Are they like you can see it coming? You know that it's happening?"},{"startTime":358.76,"endTime":360.149,"body":"There's a plan out"},{"startTime":360.39,"endTime":366.829,"body":"like what are the ways that closures differ in the way that they transpire?"},{"startTime":367.17,"endTime":372.309,"body":"So there are two types of closures and I'll cover those first bug."},{"startTime":372.54,"endTime":374.79,"body":"But I also want to come back to your question,"},{"startTime":375.48,"endTime":379.329,"body":"you know, can we forecast closures or what do higher ed"},{"startTime":379.51,"endTime":383.38,"body":"leaders want to look out for? If a closure is on the horizon."},{"startTime":384.23,"endTime":385.029,"body":"And so"},{"startTime":385.64,"endTime":388.649,"body":"first, I'll just go ahead and go over the two primary"},{"startTime":388.899,"endTime":390.089,"body":"closure types."},{"startTime":390.709,"endTime":394.049,"body":"Um Those are orderly closures and abrupt closures"},{"startTime":394.51,"endTime":395.13,"body":"and"},{"startTime":395.589,"endTime":399.369,"body":"a little bit of over two thirds of closures are orderly."},{"startTime":399.48,"endTime":403.01,"body":"And that means that adequate notice is provided to students,"},{"startTime":403.369,"endTime":408.01,"body":"institutions took the time to formulate record policies"},{"startTime":408.38,"endTime":410.6,"body":"and establish teach out agreements."},{"startTime":411.079,"endTime":415.2,"body":"And for our listeners because we call this teaching out the college closure."},{"startTime":415.39,"endTime":417.92,"body":"I'll just note that a teach out agreement"},{"startTime":417.959,"endTime":421.45,"body":"is an arrangement between institutions of higher ed"},{"startTime":421.559,"endTime":426.66,"body":"that provides a clear pathway for students to transfer and continue their"},{"startTime":426.94,"endTime":428.5,"body":"program of study. Elsewhere,"},{"startTime":430.339,"endTime":433.16,"body":"on the other hand, we have abrupt closures"},{"startTime":433.529,"endTime":437.239,"body":"where hasty or no notice is provided to students"},{"startTime":437.609,"endTime":440.69,"body":"and the worst case scenario is for staff and students"},{"startTime":440.7,"endTime":443.859,"body":"might be those closures that take place almost overnight."},{"startTime":444.22,"endTime":447.559,"body":"Staff or students may receive an email the day before a closure."},{"startTime":447.94,"endTime":450.63,"body":"And there are also stories where students"},{"startTime":450.899,"endTime":453.38,"body":"have shown up to a class and found a note on the"},{"startTime":453.39,"endTime":456.95,"body":"door or staff go to their office to find the doors locked"},{"startTime":457.75,"endTime":461.67,"body":"because they are so sudden they naturally correlate with worse,"},{"startTime":461.679,"endTime":463.339,"body":"worse student outcomes in"},{"startTime":463.57,"endTime":467.929,"body":"relation to student enrollment. Students who experience an abrupt closure"},{"startTime":468.059,"endTime":471.45,"body":"over an orderly one are less likely to reenroll and"},{"startTime":471.459,"endTime":474.17,"body":"finish the credential that they started in the first place."},{"startTime":474.899,"endTime":477.13,"body":"Yeah, that's got to be a terrible experience for them."},{"startTime":477.649,"endTime":478.14,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":478.63,"endTime":481.529,"body":"The one thing we know from taking in records"},{"startTime":481.859,"endTime":484.97,"body":"is that just because an institution is closing,"},{"startTime":484.98,"endTime":490.399,"body":"orderly doesn't mean it feels orderly to students or staff or administrators"},{"startTime":490.589,"endTime":494.369,"body":"or individuals that are in taking those records."},{"startTime":494.579,"endTime":495.44,"body":"And so,"},{"startTime":495.649,"endTime":500.22,"body":"you know, like in the example of Iowa Wesleyan, when they closed, it was orderly,"},{"startTime":500.579,"endTime":501.149,"body":"but"},{"startTime":501.44,"endTime":501.89,"body":"there were"},{"startTime":502.035,"endTime":503.204,"body":"some very,"},{"startTime":503.625,"endTime":508.024,"body":"very heavy feelings of it being abrupt too in some ways,"},{"startTime":508.154,"endTime":513.455,"body":"not just to students but also to to staff and how quickly it happened."},{"startTime":513.715,"endTime":514.455,"body":"So"},{"startTime":514.683,"endTime":516.815,"body":"you know, how are we defining how"},{"startTime":517.385,"endTime":522.135,"body":"chio defines orderly and how people define orderly made very different than"},{"startTime":522.669,"endTime":524.419,"body":"how it actually plays out in, in"},{"startTime":524.53,"endTime":525.5,"body":"real time."},{"startTime":525.729,"endTime":527.83,"body":"Yeah, and the experience of"},{"startTime":528.659,"endTime":529.539,"body":"closing"},{"startTime":529.799,"endTime":531.08,"body":"is always going to feel a"},{"startTime":531.359,"endTime":534.95,"body":"especially an institution that's been around for a little while"},{"startTime":535.169,"endTime":536.75,"body":"having to come to terms with."},{"startTime":536.919,"endTime":537.859,"body":"There is a stop"},{"startTime":538.174,"endTime":540.784,"body":"now that you are aware of whether that's,"},{"startTime":540.965,"endTime":544.895,"body":"you know, three months in the future or six months in the future, that's still,"},{"startTime":545.075,"endTime":550.395,"body":"that's no time at all really? Now it's a lot more time than showing up at class"},{"startTime":550.554,"endTime":553.395,"body":"and having a note on the door which I cannot imagine"},{"startTime":554.409,"endTime":556.57,"body":"I did want to know."},{"startTime":556.789,"endTime":560.94,"body":"So we talked about how colleges close for a variety of reasons"},{"startTime":561.349,"endTime":566.729,"body":"and the final step in their lifeline may be anticipated by early warning signals."},{"startTime":566.88,"endTime":571.539,"body":"We might see administrative pay cuts, reduced faculty or staff salaries,"},{"startTime":571.549,"endTime":576.27,"body":"hiring freezes layoffs, a reduction in academic programs."},{"startTime":576.69,"endTime":581.409,"body":"However, despite telltale tip offs, like all of those,"},{"startTime":581.45,"endTime":583.669,"body":"some closures do come as a surprise."},{"startTime":583.679,"endTime":588.349,"body":"And one of the key examples of these was the closure of Mount Ida"},{"startTime":588.53,"endTime":591.03,"body":"in Massachusetts in 2018"},{"startTime":591.479,"endTime":594.64,"body":"because that followed sunny reports of enrollment"},{"startTime":594.65,"endTime":597.429,"body":"increases and other financial green lights."},{"startTime":597.609,"endTime":600.34,"body":"So it did come as a shock to the community,"},{"startTime":600.52,"endTime":605.219,"body":"which I just want to mention because Massachusetts is one of those states. When"},{"startTime":605.45,"endTime":610.179,"body":"we think about the regulatory triad and how all of those pieces work together."},{"startTime":610.38,"endTime":615.119,"body":"They have done a lot of work to create legislation to protect students"},{"startTime":615.409,"endTime":616.58,"body":"in the closure process."},{"startTime":617.719,"endTime":620.34,"body":"When an institution closes abruptly,"},{"startTime":620.349,"endTime":625.02,"body":"what are the ways or are there ways that you can minimize harm"},{"startTime":625.26,"endTime":630.82,"body":"for the students and staff who are experiencing that abrupt closure?"},{"startTime":631.33,"endTime":633.549,"body":"Sure. So I think I've been fortunate"},{"startTime":633.789,"endTime":634.489,"body":"in that"},{"startTime":634.94,"endTime":636.789,"body":"in the time that I've been at the University of Iowa,"},{"startTime":636.809,"endTime":639.7,"body":"we've experienced two closures and they have been quote"},{"startTime":639.82,"endTime":640.869,"body":"unquote orderly."},{"startTime":641.08,"endTime":646.859,"body":"So we've had a little bit of, we've had a little bit of time to go through that process,"},{"startTime":647.229,"endTime":650.94,"body":"whether that's three months with Iowa Wesleyan or"},{"startTime":650.95,"endTime":654.33,"body":"nine months with Aib um out of Des Moines"},{"startTime":654.619,"endTime":655.89,"body":"in 2016."},{"startTime":656.159,"endTime":656.609,"body":"So"},{"startTime":656.82,"endTime":663.179,"body":"I honestly don't know what it looks like to take an abrupt closure. I have a process."},{"startTime":663.479,"endTime":666.539,"body":"I imagine that in that scenario"},{"startTime":666.679,"endTime":671.479,"body":"very strictly that we would follow the same kind of process that we do right now."},{"startTime":671.71,"endTime":672.179,"body":"But"},{"startTime":672.45,"endTime":674.739,"body":"I can also imagine it might take a little bit"},{"startTime":674.75,"endTime":677.78,"body":"more time for us to make those records available because"},{"startTime":677.885,"endTime":679.854,"body":"of how quickly that would happen."},{"startTime":680.215,"endTime":680.784,"body":"Um,"},{"startTime":681.044,"endTime":683.784,"body":"I would also hope that we would have some sort of"},{"startTime":683.794,"endTime":687.104,"body":"communication usually and I would have alluded to this anyway."},{"startTime":687.304,"endTime":688.525,"body":"Usually we do"},{"startTime":688.705,"endTime":690.294,"body":"have a little bit of notice."},{"startTime":690.885,"endTime":694.465,"body":"Uh, not necessarily a ton when the case of Iowa Wesleyan,"},{"startTime":694.715,"endTime":695.945,"body":"I knew"},{"startTime":696.184,"endTime":699.544,"body":"the morning of the announcement before the announcement was made"},{"startTime":699.739,"endTime":702.599,"body":"and they actually contacted our library"},{"startTime":702.71,"endTime":704.9,"body":"who had forwarded it to me in the morning and the"},{"startTime":704.909,"endTime":708.539,"body":"person from Iowa Wesleyan who had reached out to the library here"},{"startTime":708.659,"endTime":710.479,"body":"had reached out the night before."},{"startTime":710.489,"endTime":714.559,"body":"So somebody knew it was coming, they just didn't know who to reach out to."},{"startTime":714.78,"endTime":719.039,"body":"And so it made its way to me by like 8 a.m. 815 or something like that,"},{"startTime":719.049,"endTime":721.32,"body":"that morning of when the announcement was made."},{"startTime":721.63,"endTime":725.109,"body":"But I would assume that I would go through the same kind of process."},{"startTime":725.119,"endTime":728.659,"body":"It would just be a little, little bit crazier on our end,"},{"startTime":728.869,"endTime":729.38,"body":"no doubt,"},{"startTime":729.58,"endTime":732.15,"body":"let's back up a little and talk about some"},{"startTime":732.159,"endTime":735.65,"body":"of the regulatory pieces that are in place and that"},{"startTime":735.82,"endTime":739.21,"body":"the governance structures around institutions. And so,"},{"startTime":739.53,"endTime":741.289,"body":"and I'm gonna throw it back to you."},{"startTime":741.32,"endTime":747.109,"body":"Maybe you can explain what the term regulatory triad means to the listeners."},{"startTime":747.349,"endTime":751.469,"body":"So the regulatory triad is comprised of three main systems."},{"startTime":751.969,"endTime":756.64,"body":"And depending on how each system functions across different levels,"},{"startTime":756.7,"endTime":761.15,"body":"it's going to impact students differently as they navigate the closure process."},{"startTime":761.39,"endTime":766.219,"body":"So all three of these branches work together and determine student outcomes."},{"startTime":766.789,"endTime":769.28,"body":"So first, we have the federal branch,"},{"startTime":769.559,"endTime":773.9,"body":"which is most recognizable to people through the Department of Education,"},{"startTime":774.169,"endTime":776.83,"body":"but it might also consist of resulting"},{"startTime":776.84,"endTime":780.84,"body":"federal legislation or watchdog units who are keeping"},{"startTime":780.849,"endTime":784.479,"body":"track of how those systems are working for the benefit of students or not."},{"startTime":785.679,"endTime":788.099,"body":"The second one we have are state agencies."},{"startTime":788.619,"endTime":791.58,"body":"So each state has its own policies,"},{"startTime":791.59,"endTime":794.7,"body":"systems and laws that students have to work around."},{"startTime":795.119,"endTime":798.659,"body":"And in states where there have been more closures,"},{"startTime":799.039,"endTime":800.7,"body":"there might be some more guidance."},{"startTime":801.049,"endTime":805.58,"body":"So Massachusetts represents a state that has enacted legislation for students"},{"startTime":805.84,"endTime":809.82,"body":"and has a fiscal stewardship and consumer protection focus."},{"startTime":810.58,"endTime":814.559,"body":"And finally, we have the accrediting agencies which also play"},{"startTime":814.7,"endTime":816.799,"body":"a part in reviewing higher education."},{"startTime":817.14,"endTime":820.32,"body":"For example, depending on the accreditation agency,"},{"startTime":820.659,"endTime":823.52,"body":"they might require institutions to have a teach out"},{"startTime":823.53,"endTime":826.159,"body":"agreement in place in order to be accredited."},{"startTime":826.929,"endTime":830.309,"body":"The most important takeaway from this is that depending"},{"startTime":830.32,"endTime":832.969,"body":"on how well all of those systems work together,"},{"startTime":833.15,"endTime":836.71,"body":"the regulatory triad is going to impact students."},{"startTime":837.03,"endTime":840.69,"body":"But a lot of those protection policies result from controversy,"},{"startTime":841.099,"endTime":842.13,"body":"say more about that."},{"startTime":842.299,"endTime":846.15,"body":"Why would legislation that protects students be controversial?"},{"startTime":846.159,"endTime":847.63,"body":"Or is that the controversy?"},{"startTime":848.15,"endTime":854.69,"body":"I think it really comes down to how federal and state agencies really,"},{"startTime":854.95,"endTime":858.109,"body":"this legislation tends to be reactive from,"},{"startTime":858.119,"endTime":860.38,"body":"from what I've learned from the research"},{"startTime":860.799,"endTime":865.63,"body":"state and federal agencies are establishing legal precedent as they go along"},{"startTime":865.96,"endTime":869.989,"body":"and we unravel all of these implications to students."},{"startTime":870.469,"endTime":875.15,"body":"So in other words, in the case of Massachusetts, when Mount Ida closed,"},{"startTime":875.57,"endTime":878.219,"body":"I believe there were seven different"},{"startTime":878.929,"endTime":880.82,"body":"lawsuits against Mount Ida"},{"startTime":881.309,"endTime":886.309,"body":"and they were all dropped for various reasons. But because it was so controversial,"},{"startTime":886.419,"endTime":888.989,"body":"the state government took it very seriously and"},{"startTime":889.0,"endTime":892.309,"body":"enacted new regulations and protections for students."},{"startTime":892.989,"endTime":894.59,"body":"So again, it's part of that"},{"startTime":895.109,"endTime":897.549,"body":"sometimes reactive versus proactive."},{"startTime":897.989,"endTime":901.58,"body":"Do you know if Iowa has legislation"},{"startTime":901.849,"endTime":904.02,"body":"in place to protect students from"},{"startTime":904.21,"endTime":905.619,"body":"similar harms?"},{"startTime":906.15,"endTime":908.57,"body":"I don't know if Virginia does. So"},{"startTime":909.28,"endTime":912.94,"body":"I wanna say their policy"},{"startTime":913.099,"endTime":917.82,"body":"is specifically related to 264 which is well,"},{"startTime":917.83,"endTime":922.13,"body":"of the maintenance of academic records or scholastic record records."},{"startTime":922.719,"endTime":926.38,"body":"There might be something required about teach out"},{"startTime":926.789,"endTime":929.13,"body":"it, teach out may be required"},{"startTime":929.479,"endTime":931.5,"body":"when an institution closes."},{"startTime":931.82,"endTime":935.859,"body":"But I can't remember. I feel like I've, I feel like I've heard that from someone"},{"startTime":936.14,"endTime":938.539,"body":"but I've never actually because that's not,"},{"startTime":938.88,"endTime":941.299,"body":"-- unfortunately, that's not my my area."},{"startTime":938.88,"endTime":941.299,"body":"-- I,"},{"startTime":942.21,"endTime":946.179,"body":"I think it's going to be interesting too as we move forward with"},{"startTime":946.52,"endTime":947.33,"body":"some"},{"startTime":947.51,"endTime":951.219,"body":"shifts and shake up in the accreditation"},{"startTime":951.669,"endTime":956.7,"body":"process and, and policy like there are conversations going on now about"},{"startTime":956.96,"endTime":959.739,"body":"abandoning regional accreditation and letting"},{"startTime":959.969,"endTime":964.489,"body":"any accrediting body accredit any institution."},{"startTime":964.989,"endTime":969.59,"body":"And I don't know where that's going to land, but it will definitely have an effect on"},{"startTime":969.83,"endTime":973.989,"body":"one leg of the regulatory triad."},{"startTime":974.469,"endTime":977.969,"body":"I, I keep wanting to call it the regulatory tripod, which I guess"},{"startTime":978.26,"endTime":980.83,"body":"all three of them work together to hold the thing up"},{"startTime":981.099,"endTime":982.65,"body":"that that works, but"},{"startTime":982.969,"endTime":985.489,"body":"that's not what it is. It's called the Triad. My bad."},{"startTime":985.77,"endTime":989.049,"body":"I can say that I believe North Dakota doesn't have anything."},{"startTime":989.09,"endTime":992.0,"body":"We reached out to State Board of Higher"},{"startTime":992.01,"endTime":995.14,"body":"Education during our process of presenting at,"},{"startTime":995.15,"endTime":995.169,"body":"um,"},{"startTime":995.52,"endTime":995.89,"body":"Maro"},{"startTime":996.19,"endTime":997.049,"body":"and, um,"},{"startTime":997.27,"endTime":1001.789,"body":"never heard anything back from them, but I, having worked in the system, I'm like,"},{"startTime":1001.919,"endTime":1002.109,"body":"I"},{"startTime":1002.224,"endTime":1007.224,"body":"like 99% sure that the reason why I didn't hear back was a couple of reasons"},{"startTime":1007.354,"endTime":1009.525,"body":"and one of them is they don't have anything."},{"startTime":1009.825,"endTime":1012.244,"body":"But the other is that I think there's always"},{"startTime":1012.255,"endTime":1016.085,"body":"this consternation about the potential of an institution closing."},{"startTime":1016.344,"endTime":1017.265,"body":"There's um"},{"startTime":1017.484,"endTime":1019.515,"body":"I mean, that's been going on for years, but"},{"startTime":1019.844,"endTime":1021.125,"body":"they have 11 state"},{"startTime":1021.354,"endTime":1027.223,"body":"institutions, two universities and nine colleges slash community colleges"},{"startTime":1027.435,"endTime":1029.875,"body":"and they, they think they have too many. So,"},{"startTime":1030.198,"endTime":1032.038,"body":"so there's always a conversation about that,"},{"startTime":1032.048,"endTime":1036.538,"body":"but I was talking to the registrar at N BS U Phil and"},{"startTime":1036.808,"endTime":1038.667,"body":"we were, we were chatting about that."},{"startTime":1039.588,"endTime":1040.038,"body":"Yeah, at um"},{"startTime":1040.378,"endTime":1040.968,"body":"Maro that"},{"startTime":1041.348,"endTime":1044.729,"body":"because I said that we hadn't heard anything back. But anyway, this is a start."},{"startTime":1046.204,"endTime":1050.964,"body":"Let's talk about Iowa for a second. Now you've mentioned that"},{"startTime":1051.104,"endTime":1056.114,"body":"the University of Iowa is designated to be the receiving institution for records."},{"startTime":1056.375,"endTime":1060.175,"body":"Say a little bit more about that. It's in law. What does it mean?"},{"startTime":1060.944,"endTime":1062.094,"body":"So chapter"},{"startTime":1062.314,"endTime":1068.344,"body":"264 designates the University of Iowa as the repository for closed institutions,"},{"startTime":1068.354,"endTime":1070.694,"body":"scholastic records or what we know as transcripts,"},{"startTime":1071.339,"endTime":1073.17,"body":"our office and the office of the registrar"},{"startTime":1073.18,"endTime":1076.68,"body":"coordinates with those closing institutions or closed institutions."},{"startTime":1076.689,"endTime":1078.9,"body":"Sometimes we get them after they've been long closed."},{"startTime":1079.219,"endTime":1082.79,"body":"We currently hold 30 closed institutions."},{"startTime":1083.109,"endTime":1087.729,"body":"We've obtained two that we're closing in what I like to call real time,"},{"startTime":1087.939,"endTime":1090.349,"body":"um, since 2016."},{"startTime":1090.569,"endTime":1094.42,"body":"Um and we've obtained three other institutions that were long term"},{"startTime":1094.43,"endTime":1097.439,"body":"closed in that time period in the last six years."},{"startTime":1097.819,"endTime":1101.43,"body":"What that means for us is that we hold a lot"},{"startTime":1101.439,"endTime":1105.079,"body":"of records in the state of Iowa for closed institutions."},{"startTime":1105.089,"endTime":1108.349,"body":"It's also a lot of work to make those available and digitized."},{"startTime":1108.609,"endTime":1110.959,"body":"One of the other things is when possible."},{"startTime":1110.969,"endTime":1115.359,"body":"We also not required by law, but we try to obtain,"},{"startTime":1115.469,"endTime":1116.979,"body":"we can catalogs,"},{"startTime":1117.14,"endTime":1118.89,"body":"we know through research"},{"startTime":1119.189,"endTime":1123.329,"body":"that catalogs, you know, as part of the transition"},{"startTime":1123.479,"endTime":1128.439,"body":"for students who aren't able to graduate from institutions can be helpful"},{"startTime":1128.5,"endTime":1132.489,"body":"um when they're going to transfer into institution into other institutions."},{"startTime":1132.699,"endTime":1135.65,"body":"And you know, based on research that Hannah knows,"},{"startTime":1135.66,"endTime":1139.329,"body":"we know that the success rate of students who attended closed institutions"},{"startTime":1139.439,"endTime":1141.63,"body":"for their progress to graduation isn't"},{"startTime":1141.89,"endTime":1142.93,"body":"always great"},{"startTime":1143.239,"endTime":1144.28,"body":"unfortunately."},{"startTime":1144.29,"endTime":1147.38,"body":"And so we try to collect those catalogs in order to make"},{"startTime":1147.39,"endTime":1151.78,"body":"it a little bit easier for those students to produce that documentation"},{"startTime":1151.949,"endTime":1154.979,"body":"when they're looking to transfer from an admission standpoint,"},{"startTime":1155.119,"endTime":1161.05,"body":"so that they could possibly get credit to help them pro progress to graduation."},{"startTime":1161.06,"endTime":1161.89,"body":"Hopefully,"},{"startTime":1162.51,"endTime":1167.729,"body":"what does it look like in practice like when you are receiving documents."},{"startTime":1168.03,"endTime":1172.3,"body":"What are you getting like? Are they big bankers boxes worth of paper?"},{"startTime":1172.31,"endTime":1176.25,"body":"Is it digital files? What, what does it look like? And then"},{"startTime":1176.5,"endTime":1180.01,"body":"what do you do with those? What, what is the process?"},{"startTime":1180.27,"endTime":1185.65,"body":"Typically, I would say what we receive when an institution is closing in real time?"},{"startTime":1186.16,"endTime":1193.64,"body":"In my experience has been digital paper and microfilm slash micro form of some sort."},{"startTime":1193.969,"endTime":1197.569,"body":"Um That's very common and then I think we tend"},{"startTime":1197.579,"endTime":1200.42,"body":"to get more paper catalogs than we get digital catalogs."},{"startTime":1200.43,"endTime":1201.51,"body":"For whatever reason"},{"startTime":1202.099,"endTime":1205.239,"body":"it is a little bit, it's a little bit of a game."},{"startTime":1205.25,"endTime":1210.8,"body":"So we get paper transcripts that we may already have digital for."},{"startTime":1210.81,"endTime":1217.219,"body":"So we try to take record of the paper that we received and compare them"},{"startTime":1217.349,"endTime":1220.92,"body":"to the electronic that we received to make sure we're not doubling up."},{"startTime":1221.219,"endTime":1225.459,"body":"Um We include our, its team. Um One of the things that Hannah"},{"startTime":1225.839,"endTime":1229.42,"body":"when talking about our institutions specifically about our institution is"},{"startTime":1229.43,"endTime":1232.439,"body":"that we have our own student information system called Maui."},{"startTime":1232.56,"endTime":1237.78,"body":"And so we work very heavily with our its and our software"},{"startTime":1237.79,"endTime":1243.579,"body":"developers to make this process possible on the digital side with creating"},{"startTime":1243.75,"endTime":1246.699,"body":"students in our student information system and then getting"},{"startTime":1246.709,"endTime":1249.43,"body":"those records uploaded when we have digital records."},{"startTime":1249.9,"endTime":1250.38,"body":"In the case of"},{"startTime":1250.56,"endTime":1253.51,"body":"Iowa Wesleyan, they had two different sets of digital records,"},{"startTime":1253.52,"endTime":1258.76,"body":"some that were copied from microfilm, going back to 1950 up until the eighties"},{"startTime":1258.89,"endTime":1261.68,"body":"and then their most recent transcripts were like"},{"startTime":1261.839,"endTime":1265.479,"body":"normal PDF what you would kind of expect from a transcript"},{"startTime":1265.63,"endTime":1268.319,"body":"from 1983 until present."},{"startTime":1268.609,"endTime":1271.9,"body":"Um So there were kind of two sets of records that was 40,000 students."},{"startTime":1272.06,"endTime":1276.64,"body":"And then we received nine boxes of paper, bankers, boxes of papers"},{"startTime":1277.209,"endTime":1280.719,"body":"and we do sometimes get rogue documents."},{"startTime":1280.729,"endTime":1283.939,"body":"Some institutions have given us whole student files."},{"startTime":1284.39,"endTime":1287.709,"body":"Um We found out some things about nursing schools because we hold a"},{"startTime":1287.719,"endTime":1291.43,"body":"lot of nursing schools that per accreditation in the state of Iowa,"},{"startTime":1291.439,"endTime":1292.8,"body":"they have to maintain"},{"startTime":1293.069,"endTime":1295.319,"body":"nursing files, the whole thing, the"},{"startTime":1295.489,"endTime":1297.119,"body":"the admissions application,"},{"startTime":1297.369,"endTime":1299.25,"body":"the transcripts."},{"startTime":1299.26,"endTime":1302.469,"body":"And so we go through and we actually destroy"},{"startTime":1302.479,"endTime":1304.829,"body":"a lot of the documents that aren't transcripts."},{"startTime":1304.839,"endTime":1309.39,"body":"So admissions applications, fitness records, in fact, from,"},{"startTime":1309.75,"endTime":1312.989,"body":"from like 1920 things like that. So"},{"startTime":1313.29,"endTime":1313.91,"body":"we,"},{"startTime":1314.79,"endTime":1317.55,"body":"yeah, we try to ask for"},{"startTime":1317.78,"endTime":1321.63,"body":"just the transcripts but we still with Iowa Wesleyan,"},{"startTime":1321.859,"endTime":1323.119,"body":"we received,"},{"startTime":1323.439,"endTime":1327.16,"body":"we received trans official transcripts that we sent them"},{"startTime":1327.319,"endTime":1330.17,"body":"for students file that they didn't pull when"},{"startTime":1330.18,"endTime":1331.9,"body":"they were going through and pulling the record."},{"startTime":1331.91,"endTime":1338.079,"body":"So I saw from 1960 something, an official transcript we sent Iowa Wesleyan"},{"startTime":1338.29,"endTime":1343.0,"body":"that was in with the students record from Iowa Wesleyan."},{"startTime":1343.229,"endTime":1347.28,"body":"We try to do as much as we can to ask them to just give us transcripts."},{"startTime":1347.699,"endTime":1351.949,"body":"Um We also are very cognizant of the fact that we are asking a lot of them."},{"startTime":1352.18,"endTime":1353.92,"body":"We're asking a lot of staff and"},{"startTime":1353.93,"endTime":1356.599,"body":"potential student employees to go through and provide"},{"startTime":1356.81,"endTime":1357.27,"body":"that"},{"startTime":1357.66,"endTime":1359.199,"body":"the things to us that we need,"},{"startTime":1359.209,"endTime":1361.719,"body":"otherwise they are things that we'll have to take care of."},{"startTime":1362.239,"endTime":1366.209,"body":"And I, I imagine to at working with people who are"},{"startTime":1366.4,"endTime":1371.18,"body":"operating under a significant amount of duress and distress"},{"startTime":1371.469,"endTime":1378.04,"body":"because they are closing. And so the level of uncertainty and"},{"startTime":1378.369,"endTime":1383.439,"body":"all of the emotions going through are one of those things that,"},{"startTime":1383.449,"endTime":1385.959,"body":"that you and your team have to deal with."},{"startTime":1386.64,"endTime":1390.239,"body":"Let's talk about your team for a minute. Is it just you, do you have a team?"},{"startTime":1390.329,"endTime":1395.339,"body":"How many people are we talking about processing these 40,000 student records?"},{"startTime":1395.65,"endTime":1398.699,"body":"Yeah. So it's a little bit of a team effort"},{"startTime":1399.02,"endTime":1403.53,"body":"in terms of how we get records into the system and make them available."},{"startTime":1403.689,"endTime":1406.319,"body":"Um When it comes to the paper records that falls on me,"},{"startTime":1406.329,"endTime":1408.18,"body":"we just recently hired a student."},{"startTime":1408.479,"endTime":1414.54,"body":"Um the team of the team that's worked on this has expanded and contracted over time."},{"startTime":1414.859,"endTime":1419.479,"body":"So we used to have a couple of students and a couple of staff members"},{"startTime":1419.66,"endTime":1422.599,"body":"and then it's just been me and then Iowa Wesleyan closed."},{"startTime":1422.609,"endTime":1427.439,"body":"And so I, I just started a student employee to help with some of the Iowa Wesleyan."},{"startTime":1427.77,"endTime":1430.069,"body":"And then I've tapped when available,"},{"startTime":1430.209,"endTime":1432.03,"body":"um some of our customer service or"},{"startTime":1432.04,"endTime":1434.729,"body":"student services um individual front line workers"},{"startTime":1434.739,"endTime":1437.449,"body":"for when they have some downtime if they want to help with the projects"},{"startTime":1437.819,"endTime":1439.709,"body":"and they kind of fill in as they see fit."},{"startTime":1439.719,"endTime":1442.719,"body":"So it's not necessarily just me doing it alone because I"},{"startTime":1442.729,"endTime":1446.04,"body":"do wear other hats with PSEO and stuff like that."},{"startTime":1446.579,"endTime":1447.05,"body":"Hannah,"},{"startTime":1447.06,"endTime":1454.03,"body":"what if any is your role in the actual receiving and processing of documents?"},{"startTime":1454.699,"endTime":1457.03,"body":"This is a great question, Doug because"},{"startTime":1457.199,"endTime":1459.4,"body":"I'm really just here for the research."},{"startTime":1461.199,"endTime":1462.26,"body":"But I think"},{"startTime":1462.78,"endTime":1463.03,"body":"Jack"},{"startTime":1463.8,"endTime":1464.54,"body":"Jackie."},{"startTime":1464.55,"endTime":1469.369,"body":"Um so and just a little bit about how we, we got started on this is I, you know,"},{"startTime":1469.38,"endTime":1473.52,"body":"I'm not a lawyer, not authorized to talk policy for the University of Iowa,"},{"startTime":1473.93,"endTime":1476.869,"body":"but this was a project for my law in higher ed class."},{"startTime":1477.4,"endTime":1478.77,"body":"And Jackie and I"},{"startTime":1478.91,"endTime":1483.089,"body":"connected after an open house last year and"},{"startTime":1483.65,"endTime":1488.189,"body":"she mentioned she was very busy with closed institution records. And"},{"startTime":1488.489,"endTime":1492.27,"body":"since I had been looking into legal precedents for my law class, I said,"},{"startTime":1492.589,"endTime":1495.099,"body":"I think we have a conference presentation,"},{"startTime":1495.369,"endTime":1496.589,"body":"we should talk more"},{"startTime":1497.04,"endTime":1499.939,"body":"and Jackie had mentioned earlier,"},{"startTime":1500.27,"endTime":1503.66,"body":"you know, some of the re due to some of the research I know"},{"startTime":1503.92,"endTime":1507.17,"body":"or I am aware of it had helped her learn"},{"startTime":1507.18,"endTime":1510.05,"body":"that we should collect transcripts as much as possible."},{"startTime":1510.06,"endTime":1510.66,"body":"And so"},{"startTime":1510.959,"endTime":1513.38,"body":"I think that's a really important connection,"},{"startTime":1513.39,"endTime":1517.75,"body":"just how networking in our own office, this"},{"startTime":1518.02,"endTime":1522.652,"body":"policy interest I had with the actual position and that Jackie holds"},{"startTime":1522.983,"endTime":1525.642,"body":"and how we kind of merge our interests together"},{"startTime":1525.843,"endTime":1527.083,"body":"and how ultimately that"},{"startTime":1527.213,"endTime":1528.042,"body":"it makes"},{"startTime":1528.243,"endTime":1530.072,"body":"us, it makes for a stronger office."},{"startTime":1530.083,"endTime":1534.162,"body":"I think we're constantly in dialogue about these things and"},{"startTime":1534.282,"endTime":1537.483,"body":"now that we have presented at a conference with"},{"startTime":1537.652,"endTime":1540.282,"body":"me on the policy side and Jackie on the,"},{"startTime":1540.453,"endTime":1545.985,"body":"this is how we interpret policy and how my role is informed by policy policy."},{"startTime":1545.995,"endTime":1549.625,"body":"We have sort of become people who"},{"startTime":1549.755,"endTime":1553.345,"body":"others connect with when they hear about the closure process"},{"startTime":1553.666,"endTime":1555.745,"body":"because we were really interested"},{"startTime":1556.245,"endTime":1560.666,"body":"in learning more about it after seeing so many articles about there"},{"startTime":1560.946,"endTime":1565.306,"body":"that might highlight the student experience and the faculty experience"},{"startTime":1565.485,"endTime":1567.495,"body":"or the community experience,"},{"startTime":1567.605,"endTime":1569.345,"body":"especially with Iowa Wesleyan."},{"startTime":1569.949,"endTime":1573.64,"body":"But we weren't seeing anything about how registrars are"},{"startTime":1573.76,"endTime":1577.229,"body":"impacted. We weren't hearing the staff voice. And so"},{"startTime":1577.4,"endTime":1581.51,"body":"that's sort of where we came together and merged our interests and"},{"startTime":1581.79,"endTime":1583.63,"body":"started to connect with the staff."},{"startTime":1583.88,"endTime":1584.38,"body":"And"},{"startTime":1584.609,"endTime":1588.93,"body":"A RL is actually a really big part of that. We used our young professionals caucus"},{"startTime":1589.109,"endTime":1593.709,"body":"message board to connect with some folks and have some real conversations about"},{"startTime":1593.829,"endTime":1596.15,"body":"what we could learn from them and how it,"},{"startTime":1596.18,"endTime":1599.31,"body":"it would benefit our understanding of what we do in our office."},{"startTime":1600.01,"endTime":1602.349,"body":"Let's talk about that for a couple of minutes,"},{"startTime":1602.68,"endTime":1606.79,"body":"you reached out to people who had experience with"},{"startTime":1606.8,"endTime":1610.39,"body":"being at a closed institution or had known someone."},{"startTime":1610.4,"endTime":1611.31,"body":"What were the"},{"startTime":1611.579,"endTime":1616.43,"body":"solicitations for input like there and then who responded?"},{"startTime":1616.439,"endTime":1620.069,"body":"And how many people did you talk to? And what kinds of things did you learn?"},{"startTime":1620.579,"endTime":1623.239,"body":"I wanna give a shout out to Jackie also."},{"startTime":1623.25,"endTime":1626.439,"body":"I know she's recording alongside me,"},{"startTime":1626.449,"endTime":1630.579,"body":"but I learned a lot from Jackie and so many"},{"startTime":1630.589,"endTime":1633.339,"body":"of the initial conversations we had were so helpful."},{"startTime":1633.51,"endTime":1635.29,"body":"And one of my favorite things"},{"startTime":1635.56,"endTime":1639.52,"body":"as I learned more about this process, thanks to Jackie's work was"},{"startTime":1639.839,"endTime":1644.51,"body":"Jackie is doing really important work to make a very hectic process"},{"startTime":1644.66,"endTime":1649.01,"body":"run smoothly for staff at these closed institutions. So"},{"startTime":1649.25,"endTime":1651.89,"body":"when we think about the distress they're experiencing,"},{"startTime":1652.109,"endTime":1654.41,"body":"I just want to give a shout out to Jackie for all she's"},{"startTime":1654.42,"endTime":1658.14,"body":"doing and make sure she gets some recognition for her hard work."},{"startTime":1659.079,"endTime":1664.479,"body":"And I don't know if she wants to talk more about her role with Iowa Wesleyan staff."},{"startTime":1664.56,"endTime":1667.05,"body":"I can certainly talk more about the people we"},{"startTime":1667.459,"endTime":1668.76,"body":"chatted with as well."},{"startTime":1668.949,"endTime":1672.119,"body":"Let's talk about the people we chatted with. We the imperial."},{"startTime":1672.13,"endTime":1674.28,"body":"We let's talk about the people that you chatted with"},{"startTime":1674.439,"endTime":1679.079,"body":"first and then we'll uh focus on Iowa Wesleyan specifically in a minute."},{"startTime":1679.089,"endTime":1680.959,"body":"So when you reached out,"},{"startTime":1681.199,"endTime":1685.68,"body":"who responded and what kinds of conversations did you have?"},{"startTime":1686.43,"endTime":1691.64,"body":"So when we reached out to our to acros Young Professionals caucus network,"},{"startTime":1691.65,"endTime":1694.13,"body":"we heard from a handful of people and"},{"startTime":1694.839,"endTime":1699.479,"body":"we learned some really fascinating and interesting things and I also,"},{"startTime":1699.489,"endTime":1700.859,"body":"I just wanna make sure that"},{"startTime":1701.099,"endTime":1702.03,"body":"they are,"},{"startTime":1702.25,"endTime":1703.0,"body":"they are thanked."},{"startTime":1703.01,"endTime":1707.359,"body":"We're not going to name all of them or discuss individual conversations,"},{"startTime":1707.369,"endTime":1710.099,"body":"but I do just want to give them some recognition for"},{"startTime":1710.209,"endTime":1713.79,"body":"the time they took to discuss their experiences with us."},{"startTime":1714.02,"endTime":1716.0,"body":"Some of the things that we were told were,"},{"startTime":1716.01,"endTime":1718.829,"body":"were that students have will have the most questions about"},{"startTime":1718.839,"endTime":1722.39,"body":"transfer work and tuition when they're trying to graduate."},{"startTime":1722.77,"endTime":1725.469,"body":"We had some really interesting conversations about"},{"startTime":1725.93,"endTime":1731.03,"body":"when institutions close, they might often host transfer fairs for students."},{"startTime":1731.52,"endTime":1734.29,"body":"And I think Jackie did a really great job"},{"startTime":1734.68,"endTime":1738.54,"body":"articulating with some of the people we talked to that"},{"startTime":1738.79,"endTime":1743.619,"body":"you may want to carefully consider the person you're sending to some of these fairs."},{"startTime":1743.63,"endTime":1747.089,"body":"You may not necessarily want to send your most bubbly admissions person."},{"startTime":1747.29,"endTime":1750.979,"body":"You may want to send the person who's the expert on transfer articulation."},{"startTime":1751.39,"endTime":1753.3,"body":"Because there that's going to be one of"},{"startTime":1753.31,"endTime":1756.13,"body":"the most pressing questions that students will have."},{"startTime":1756.699,"endTime":1758.38,"body":"And some of the things we learned"},{"startTime":1758.739,"endTime":1761.68,"body":"from talking to individuals was a lot about"},{"startTime":1761.9,"endTime":1763.04,"body":"maybe"},{"startTime":1763.29,"endTime":1767.199,"body":"the, the feelings that they experienced which I think were alluded in"},{"startTime":1767.609,"endTime":1772.199,"body":"which are covered quite a bit in the the previous podcast about"},{"startTime":1772.459,"endTime":1774.709,"body":"what are the feelings of experiencing a"},{"startTime":1775.209,"endTime":1778.16,"body":"closing institution as a staff member and"},{"startTime":1778.75,"endTime":1781.81,"body":"for the purposes of Hannah. And I, we really,"},{"startTime":1782.04,"endTime":1785.17,"body":"we treated it very holistically talking to them"},{"startTime":1785.319,"endTime":1789.209,"body":"and then when making a recommendation or making our recommendations and"},{"startTime":1789.39,"endTime":1791.13,"body":"thought points, I guess"},{"startTime":1791.489,"endTime":1791.75,"body":"at um"},{"startTime":1792.04,"endTime":1793.719,"body":"Maro for our presentation was"},{"startTime":1793.91,"endTime":1796.719,"body":"the kind of support that staff members don't,"},{"startTime":1796.859,"endTime":1797.969,"body":"don't get"},{"startTime":1798.13,"endTime":1800.15,"body":"whether intentional or unintentional."},{"startTime":1800.239,"endTime":1805.569,"body":"And that's not only just institutionally but also supporting yourself."},{"startTime":1805.91,"endTime":1810.25,"body":"You're going through that because the focus of the staff members is so keenly and"},{"startTime":1810.26,"endTime":1812.599,"body":"uniquely focused on the students and getting"},{"startTime":1812.609,"endTime":1814.63,"body":"them where they need to be oftentimes that"},{"startTime":1814.76,"endTime":1816.119,"body":"those individuals"},{"startTime":1816.41,"endTime":1819.729,"body":"gave them like put themselves in the back seat for a little while,"},{"startTime":1819.739,"endTime":1821.9,"body":"while their lives were in the balance too."},{"startTime":1821.91,"endTime":1822.329,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1822.89,"endTime":1825.489,"body":"And so those are some of the conversations that we had,"},{"startTime":1825.93,"endTime":1828.339,"body":"-- we spoke with four"},{"startTime":1825.93,"endTime":1828.339,"body":"-- individuals"},{"startTime":1828.439,"endTime":1828.979,"body":"or"},{"startTime":1829.15,"endTime":1830.26,"body":"four. OK."},{"startTime":1830.599,"endTime":1830.76,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":1831.17,"endTime":1835.79,"body":"we learned about the unique experience of immigrants to the United States"},{"startTime":1835.969,"endTime":1837.719,"body":"or international students"},{"startTime":1837.959,"endTime":1841.599,"body":"and how international students face unique pressures to"},{"startTime":1841.76,"endTime":1845.52,"body":"decide on when their institution closes. They face"},{"startTime":1845.875,"endTime":1850.494,"body":"so much pressure to immediately decide on the new plan of study elsewhere."},{"startTime":1850.694,"endTime":1853.935,"body":"We talked about how it's often overlooked"},{"startTime":1853.994,"endTime":1858.474,"body":"that those students or staff who are international"},{"startTime":1858.484,"endTime":1861.515,"body":"may have unique documents that they had"},{"startTime":1861.525,"endTime":1864.405,"body":"to obtain from their home countries that they"},{"startTime":1864.525,"endTime":1865.805,"body":"aren't easy to come by."},{"startTime":1866.13,"endTime":1866.869,"body":"And"},{"startTime":1867.109,"endTime":1870.43,"body":"so we talked about the importance of one of the staff members."},{"startTime":1870.439,"endTime":1873.91,"body":"We talked to discuss the role that she played in"},{"startTime":1874.089,"endTime":1876.55,"body":"hoping to organize a document pick up day"},{"startTime":1876.75,"endTime":1882.55,"body":"just for as a unique way to support students and staff in that population"},{"startTime":1883.27,"endTime":1887.579,"body":"closing institutions tend to have a high number"},{"startTime":1887.989,"endTime":1890.959,"body":"or a higher number of potential international students"},{"startTime":1891.209,"endTime":1893.54,"body":"as well as minority students"},{"startTime":1893.8,"endTime":1898.989,"body":"um as they're recruiting to try to alleviate some of their financial woes."},{"startTime":1899.0,"endTime":1903.02,"body":"So even in the case of Iowa Wesleyan, as Hannah was talking about,"},{"startTime":1903.214,"endTime":1905.685,"body":"they had international students who were thinking"},{"startTime":1905.694,"endTime":1908.655,"body":"about transferring back to their home countries."},{"startTime":1908.935,"endTime":1911.425,"body":"And so they were able to get their transcripts,"},{"startTime":1911.435,"endTime":1915.925,"body":"but they also needed all of the catalog information for all of their courses."},{"startTime":1915.935,"endTime":1919.125,"body":"And so one of the first things I did while its was work"},{"startTime":1919.135,"endTime":1922.964,"body":"was try to scan as many of the more recent catalogs as I could"},{"startTime":1923.39,"endTime":1926.53,"body":"so that I could make those catalogs available to those students,"},{"startTime":1926.9,"endTime":1930.069,"body":"particularly international students for their transfers."},{"startTime":1930.339,"endTime":1933.369,"body":"And that's not just one class that's three years of"},{"startTime":1933.38,"endTime":1937.229,"body":"that six semesters or classes or more for those students."},{"startTime":1937.26,"endTime":1942.329,"body":"So it really going through and hunting and pecking pages in PDF S is, you know,"},{"startTime":1942.339,"endTime":1944.79,"body":"the ability to make them available in total"},{"startTime":1944.969,"endTime":1946.849,"body":"so that they could be given to those"},{"startTime":1946.859,"endTime":1949.209,"body":"students for their pursuit was really important."},{"startTime":1949.81,"endTime":1952.479,"body":"That was something I learned having not done."},{"startTime":1952.489,"endTime":1955.859,"body":"This was my first institution to close in real time."},{"startTime":1955.89,"endTime":1959.959,"body":"Other institutions I've taken in have all been previously closed for like decades."},{"startTime":1960.25,"endTime":1961.829,"body":"Let's talk about Iowa Wesley."},{"startTime":1962.17,"endTime":1963.349,"body":"We've alluded to it."},{"startTime":1963.359,"endTime":1968.439,"body":"You've mentioned a couple of aspects of it, but let's do sort of a deeper dive into"},{"startTime":1968.65,"endTime":1974.479,"body":"the overall process is sort of a case study for our listeners. What was the timeline?"},{"startTime":1974.739,"endTime":1976.52,"body":"Who was involved?"},{"startTime":1976.689,"endTime":1979.569,"body":"I think you mentioned how you receive the documents"},{"startTime":1979.709,"endTime":1985.5,"body":"and then where are you in terms of processing and making those documents available?"},{"startTime":1985.51,"endTime":1989.42,"body":"Is that an ongoing thing? Was it a distinct period of time?"},{"startTime":1989.709,"endTime":1990.76,"body":"Those types of questions?"},{"startTime":1990.77,"endTime":1995.209,"body":"So maybe start with the timeline and then we can dive in from there."},{"startTime":1995.569,"endTime":1997.64,"body":"Sure. A brief time Iowa"},{"startTime":1997.91,"endTime":2000.16,"body":"Wesleyan University announced their closure"},{"startTime":2000.43,"endTime":2003.089,"body":"at the end of March of 2023"},{"startTime":2003.349,"endTime":2003.88,"body":"during"},{"startTime":2004.01,"endTime":2007.41,"body":"a crow's annual conference, I was virtual."},{"startTime":2007.739,"endTime":2009.66,"body":"My boss was in,"},{"startTime":2009.9,"endTime":2012.29,"body":"oh, it was Colorado, right? It was in Colorado."},{"startTime":2012.63,"endTime":2013.25,"body":"Um"},{"startTime":2013.78,"endTime":2017.4,"body":"They set a closure date of May 30th."},{"startTime":2017.869,"endTime":2022.369,"body":"I would argue the closure date was the second week in May just given what I know."},{"startTime":2023.0,"endTime":2025.53,"body":"And then just as a brief timeline,"},{"startTime":2025.829,"endTime":2032.02,"body":"um we began processing transcripts on June 21st for those who are requesting,"},{"startTime":2032.31,"endTime":2035.64,"body":"they stopped their office of the Registrar"},{"startTime":2035.65,"endTime":2038.25,"body":"stopped processing transcripts on May 11th."},{"startTime":2038.459,"endTime":2041.359,"body":"So there was about a five week time period"},{"startTime":2041.579,"endTime":2044.819,"body":"where there were no Iowa Wesleyan transcripts being"},{"startTime":2044.829,"endTime":2049.11,"body":"moved just as by way of our processing time"},{"startTime":2049.75,"endTime":2053.86,"body":"with more leg time, we might have been able to do it a little faster,"},{"startTime":2053.87,"endTime":2056.0,"body":"but I'm really proud of how quickly we did it."},{"startTime":2056.1,"endTime":2060.28,"body":"Our initial assessment was that we were going to do it early July after the fourth."},{"startTime":2060.489,"endTime":2062.438,"body":"Um but we were able to move it up a little bit."},{"startTime":2063.149,"endTime":2065.239,"body":"I want to pause for a second because"},{"startTime":2065.489,"endTime":2068.239,"body":"March 23rd announcement to May"},{"startTime":2068.35,"endTime":2074.409,"body":"30th closure and that's considered an orderly closure,"},{"startTime":2074.458,"endTime":2079.05,"body":"not abrupt like two months really because you're at the end of March,"},{"startTime":2079.06,"endTime":2080.85,"body":"you got April and all of May."},{"startTime":2081.129,"endTime":2082.699,"body":"Correct. Yeah. So"},{"startTime":2083.54,"endTime":2086.929,"body":"technically Iowa Wesleyan was an orderly closure"},{"startTime":2087.29,"endTime":2092.649,"body":"and that's if we don't count the two weeks that their office of the Registrar"},{"startTime":2092.78,"endTime":2094.81,"body":"could not process transcripts"},{"startTime":2095.139,"endTime":2100.26,"body":"and just when I picked up the records the week after"},{"startTime":2100.489,"endTime":2104.649,"body":"the 11th, so they had graduation the first week of May"},{"startTime":2104.76,"endTime":2108.09,"body":"and they did grades and degrees the next week"},{"startTime":2108.439,"endTime":2109.36,"body":"and then,"},{"startTime":2109.54,"endTime":2113.03,"body":"um, they had no electricity, no phone lines,"},{"startTime":2113.419,"endTime":2116.889,"body":"no access to emails, um, at a certain point."},{"startTime":2116.899,"endTime":2119.76,"body":"And so when I picked up, when I went to pick up records,"},{"startTime":2120.12,"endTime":2121.409,"body":"the fall, I think it was"},{"startTime":2121.61,"endTime":2125.719,"body":"May 19th, I was picking up boxes from a dark building."},{"startTime":2125.729,"endTime":2130.919,"body":"See, this is a fascinating aspect of this because like I, I hear"},{"startTime":2131.03,"endTime":2131.58,"body":"all right,"},{"startTime":2131.83,"endTime":2136.33,"body":"University of Iowa received documents from Iowa Westley,"},{"startTime":2136.62,"endTime":2137.54,"body":"but now"},{"startTime":2138.05,"endTime":2139.08,"body":"you"},{"startTime":2139.31,"endTime":2143.51,"body":"personally are driving to a darkened building"},{"startTime":2143.82,"endTime":2147.939,"body":"and picking up physical boxes and putting them in your car"},{"startTime":2148.139,"endTime":2153.169,"body":"to take back to your office like that. Just a different feel"},{"startTime":2153.34,"endTime":2157.149,"body":"of there's a lot more texture there."},{"startTime":2157.429,"endTime":2160.649,"body":"-- It's less, you know, and"},{"startTime":2157.429,"endTime":2160.649,"body":"-- I mean, I don't mean to brag or anything,"},{"startTime":2160.659,"endTime":2164.919,"body":"but I brought them cookies when I picked up the box because I knew"},{"startTime":2166.159,"endTime":2166.179,"body":"it"},{"startTime":2166.82,"endTime":2168.8,"body":"had been a rough, rough few months."},{"startTime":2169.02,"endTime":2173.08,"body":"Um, and I worked with them kind of every, just in terms of timeline."},{"startTime":2173.669,"endTime":2175.449,"body":"The second I found out,"},{"startTime":2175.629,"endTime":2181.169,"body":"um, there was a contact person that I reached out to. I also notified the State"},{"startTime":2181.459,"endTime":2184.909,"body":"Department of Education, which used to be called Iowa College Aid."},{"startTime":2185.159,"endTime":2189.209,"body":"I reached out to that contact and let them know because they need to be aware of it."},{"startTime":2189.709,"endTime":2194.219,"body":"Um And then we scheduled a meeting for the following week virtually"},{"startTime":2194.31,"endTime":2198.949,"body":"to start working with their registrar's office as well as their its staff"},{"startTime":2199.11,"endTime":2203.31,"body":"and our, its staff, our transcripts and verifications team."},{"startTime":2203.32,"endTime":2208.0,"body":"Our registrar was at the first meeting and then my supervisor"},{"startTime":2208.239,"endTime":2209.5,"body":"as well, Kurt Graf"},{"startTime":2209.75,"endTime":2213.824,"body":"who is kind of new to taking on me and what I do."},{"startTime":2214.004,"endTime":2215.915,"body":"So it's good to have them in those meetings."},{"startTime":2216.245,"endTime":2219.814,"body":"We met about every two weeks with their registrar"},{"startTime":2219.824,"endTime":2223.485,"body":"staff until graduation and we had a good plan by"},{"startTime":2223.495,"endTime":2227.195,"body":"then and then their its and Rits kind of met"},{"startTime":2227.205,"endTime":2229.685,"body":"in between there so that they were working together."},{"startTime":2229.824,"endTime":2233.695,"body":"And this is just an aside when we talk about college closures and,"},{"startTime":2234.139,"endTime":2237.32,"body":"and some Hallmark traits of closures,"},{"startTime":2237.51,"endTime":2239.31,"body":"Iowa Wesleyan hired their,"},{"startTime":2239.32,"endTime":2242.04,"body":"its staff last year and I think they did"},{"startTime":2242.05,"endTime":2244.199,"body":"it knowing that this was probably going to happen."},{"startTime":2244.53,"endTime":2247.429,"body":"They hired people who probably knew how to do this really well."},{"startTime":2247.439,"endTime":2252.85,"body":"They did, they were pretty fresh to their roles, but they knew what they were doing."},{"startTime":2253.05,"endTime":2258.149,"body":"And they had also hired a career, a director of like career and internship services,"},{"startTime":2258.31,"endTime":2261.969,"body":"um which also would have been important for students."},{"startTime":2262.189,"endTime":2264.379,"body":"So they kind of made some hires that"},{"startTime":2264.562,"endTime":2267.502,"body":"if you were going to spend money and knowing you might close,"},{"startTime":2267.512,"endTime":2269.822,"body":"those are probably places you'd wanna put money."},{"startTime":2270.083,"endTime":2272.512,"body":"So that's just a fascinating tidbit."},{"startTime":2272.923,"endTime":2276.603,"body":"We had its work independently with our software"},{"startTime":2276.613,"endTime":2280.712,"body":"developers so that they could successfully transfer digital records"},{"startTime":2280.893,"endTime":2281.962,"body":"into the system."},{"startTime":2281.972,"endTime":2284.502,"body":"And then our transcripts and verifications team,"},{"startTime":2284.595,"endTime":2288.545,"body":"we worked out messaging to say when transcripts would be available"},{"startTime":2288.555,"endTime":2291.976,"body":"and how the process would work to process those transcripts."},{"startTime":2292.166,"endTime":2293.875,"body":"Um One of the unique things that comes out of"},{"startTime":2293.885,"endTime":2298.016,"body":"this that I don't think I realized before now is that"},{"startTime":2298.305,"endTime":2302.855,"body":"when we intake student records, how students receive their transcripts"},{"startTime":2303.625,"endTime":2304.496,"body":"is different."},{"startTime":2304.86,"endTime":2308.419,"body":"Usually we process on our own in our office,"},{"startTime":2308.429,"endTime":2311.199,"body":"we don't go through a third party vendor such as,"},{"startTime":2311.5,"endTime":2313.76,"body":"you know, the National Student Clearinghouse or Parchment,"},{"startTime":2313.929,"endTime":2316.0,"body":"they use the National Student Clearinghouse."},{"startTime":2316.189,"endTime":2318.36,"body":"And so the cost of transcripts"},{"startTime":2318.58,"endTime":2321.76,"body":"uh has changed or changes,"},{"startTime":2321.77,"endTime":2324.189,"body":"the students are learning a new process to get"},{"startTime":2324.199,"endTime":2327.31,"body":"their transcript that they may not have experienced before,"},{"startTime":2327.449,"endTime":2330.199,"body":"especially when they order their first transcript through"},{"startTime":2330.32,"endTime":2333.239,"body":"the clearing house and then they come to us and we have a different system,"},{"startTime":2333.649,"endTime":2336.639,"body":"how we bill them is different for those charges."},{"startTime":2336.699,"endTime":2340.54,"body":"So there's a lot of differences that students have to have a,"},{"startTime":2340.55,"endTime":2342.229,"body":"there's a learning curve to that."},{"startTime":2342.239,"endTime":2344.959,"body":"And so there was a lot of customer service support on our end"},{"startTime":2345.409,"endTime":2347.59,"body":"to help those students going through,"},{"startTime":2347.79,"endTime":2349.76,"body":"you know, a challenging situation,"},{"startTime":2349.929,"endTime":2351.36,"body":"figure out how to get,"},{"startTime":2351.57,"endTime":2353.169,"body":"how to best get their records"},{"startTime":2353.459,"endTime":2353.949,"body":"and"},{"startTime":2354.08,"endTime":2356.959,"body":"unanticipated transition situation."},{"startTime":2357.129,"endTime":2358.29,"body":"Correct. Correct."},{"startTime":2358.3,"endTime":2363.649,"body":"Now, you said you reached out to a contact at the State Department of Education."},{"startTime":2363.659,"endTime":2366.3,"body":"Is that a requirement for you?"},{"startTime":2366.31,"endTime":2370.159,"body":"Is that, is that just in your standard operating procedure"},{"startTime":2370.489,"endTime":2376.36,"body":"to notify or is it actually the responsibility of the closing institution?"},{"startTime":2376.37,"endTime":2379.429,"body":"Is it kind of both or is it just because you know, the person."},{"startTime":2379.83,"endTime":2380.27,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2380.28,"endTime":2386.3,"body":"So, I don't know if this is written, this is not written in law, but as far as I know,"},{"startTime":2386.53,"endTime":2388.82,"body":"technically what's supposed to happen is"},{"startTime":2388.83,"endTime":2391.169,"body":"the closing institution should actually reach"},{"startTime":2391.179,"endTime":2395.879,"body":"out to Iowa College Aid or what was the Department of Education?"},{"startTime":2395.889,"endTime":2396.399,"body":"Sorry."},{"startTime":2396.929,"endTime":2399.11,"body":"It just transitioned recently."},{"startTime":2399.56,"endTime":2403.28,"body":"So they're supposed to reach out to this contact at the Department of Education."},{"startTime":2403.709,"endTime":2406.709,"body":"Um, and then I should be notified from there."},{"startTime":2406.82,"endTime":2411.01,"body":"However, most people don't know that"},{"startTime":2411.189,"endTime":2412.689,"body":"it's not really a known thing."},{"startTime":2412.909,"endTime":2419.09,"body":"So it tends to be that I, people know to some extent we're repository. So usually"},{"startTime":2419.28,"endTime":2421.37,"body":"they'll just contact the University of Iowa."},{"startTime":2421.57,"endTime":2422.929,"body":"And then I let,"},{"startTime":2423.129,"endTime":2425.77,"body":"I let the Department of Education know,"},{"startTime":2426.04,"endTime":2431.409,"body":"I don't know if they do. I've been meaning to talk with that contact about what they do"},{"startTime":2431.51,"endTime":2433.31,"body":"specifically and then we haven't had a chance"},{"startTime":2433.32,"endTime":2435.209,"body":"to touch base because I just don't know."},{"startTime":2435.219,"endTime":2437.25,"body":"I'm like, I know they need to be notified"},{"startTime":2437.449,"endTime":2440.209,"body":"in some capacity. There's probably a good reason for that."},{"startTime":2440.34,"endTime":2444.31,"body":"But I was always curious and I'm genuinely curious about what"},{"startTime":2444.32,"endTime":2448.09,"body":"they do when the school contacts them and what their process is"},{"startTime":2448.61,"endTime":2450.12,"body":"not why they need to be notified."},{"startTime":2450.129,"endTime":2454.53,"body":"But what that drives and then coming to us, we had another closure,"},{"startTime":2454.54,"endTime":2458.669,"body":"a very small online school like a seminary school"},{"startTime":2458.86,"endTime":2461.669,"body":"that announced its closure and was in teach out."},{"startTime":2461.919,"endTime":2463.5,"body":"Um And that one"},{"startTime":2463.639,"endTime":2467.82,"body":"I received this summer or last summer and"},{"startTime":2468.08,"endTime":2470.939,"body":"that one I heard from by"},{"startTime":2471.06,"endTime":2472.34,"body":"the Department of Education."},{"startTime":2472.689,"endTime":2476.389,"body":"So that one came to me the appropriate way, quote"},{"startTime":2476.55,"endTime":2476.729,"body":"unquote"},{"startTime":2476.959,"endTime":2478.58,"body":"the official channels."},{"startTime":2478.75,"endTime":2483.1,"body":"Um And then we worked with them to transition their records in December. So,"},{"startTime":2483.51,"endTime":2484.02,"body":"so yeah,"},{"startTime":2484.989,"endTime":2487.27,"body":"this is so fascinating and I,"},{"startTime":2487.669,"endTime":2491.739,"body":"I want to ask like 100 more questions about like those first"},{"startTime":2492.149,"endTime":2495.189,"body":"zoom meetings that you had or virtual meetings"},{"startTime":2495.32,"endTime":2497.75,"body":"with Io Wesley and staff."},{"startTime":2497.889,"endTime":2498.8,"body":"But I'm going to pause"},{"startTime":2499.25,"endTime":2502.889,"body":"and we'll, we'll do a higher level question about"},{"startTime":2503.379,"endTime":2508.189,"body":"sort of general themes and what have you learned? And what would you recommend"},{"startTime":2508.53,"endTime":2511.429,"body":"to another institution that may not be"},{"startTime":2511.439,"endTime":2514.87,"body":"designated by the state as a receiving institution"},{"startTime":2515.1,"endTime":2519.629,"body":"but may wind up in a receiving institution situation"},{"startTime":2520.01,"endTime":2522.35,"body":"in my experience, I think the"},{"startTime":2522.939,"endTime":2527.229,"body":"a few of the most important things are figuring out a process."},{"startTime":2527.239,"endTime":2530.61,"body":"I think that's what makes us successful. And"},{"startTime":2530.719,"endTime":2535.03,"body":"I felt very good about the process that has been developed"},{"startTime":2535.25,"endTime":2539.03,"body":"not to pat myself on the back. But some of it has some of it has come from the"},{"startTime":2539.31,"endTime":2541.31,"body":"Afro closed Report, but some of it"},{"startTime":2541.81,"endTime":2546.32,"body":"I use from the Acro report to create processes."},{"startTime":2546.709,"endTime":2551.31,"body":"But I think that having a process is really important."},{"startTime":2551.32,"endTime":2554.429,"body":"Another thing is I think those catalogs are really key."},{"startTime":2554.5,"endTime":2558.189,"body":"And one of the things that I could recommend to either a receiving institution or an"},{"startTime":2558.199,"endTime":2561.639,"body":"institution that might be closing is the electronic"},{"startTime":2561.649,"endTime":2565.79,"body":"version of those like I think I scanned 80"},{"startTime":2566.28,"endTime":2569.899,"body":"I scan them all because sometimes we do have to go back 20 years."},{"startTime":2570.429,"endTime":2573.59,"body":"But as many digital catalogs as possible,"},{"startTime":2573.719,"endTime":2576.939,"body":"especially as you're getting ready to close for those,"},{"startTime":2576.949,"endTime":2579.979,"body":"particularly the students who are attending."},{"startTime":2579.989,"endTime":2584.439,"body":"So at least, you know, 56 years of them, I think six probably be good. But"},{"startTime":2584.659,"endTime":2587.3,"body":"that's something that I think ends up going to the wayside."},{"startTime":2587.689,"endTime":2591.31,"body":"I think digitalization is sometimes hard because depending on the institution,"},{"startTime":2591.32,"endTime":2592.989,"body":"depends on how much money and time they"},{"startTime":2593.0,"endTime":2596.969,"body":"have to focus on digitalization of transcripts specifically."},{"startTime":2597.209,"endTime":2602.149,"body":"But that's I think, and then as Hannah alluded to earlier, the"},{"startTime":2602.8,"endTime":2605.35,"body":"the transfer fare really stuck out to me"},{"startTime":2605.719,"endTime":2606.55,"body":"as"},{"startTime":2606.679,"endTime":2609.1,"body":"I know admissions people and they have big"},{"startTime":2609.11,"endTime":2612.419,"body":"personalities and I just kept thinking who is"},{"startTime":2612.429,"endTime":2617.0,"body":"being sent to these institutions and what are they bringing to the table and what is"},{"startTime":2617.159,"endTime":2620.649,"body":"what is really needed for these students? And I just kept thinking like,"},{"startTime":2621.189,"endTime":2625.5,"body":"yeah, like experts and maybe institutions are already sending the right people."},{"startTime":2625.51,"endTime":2628.729,"body":"I don't want to infer that they aren't. But I just kept thinking I was like, oh,"},{"startTime":2629.31,"endTime":2630.929,"body":"like I can just imagine,"},{"startTime":2631.5,"endTime":2631.56,"body":"you"},{"startTime":2631.78,"endTime":2631.889,"body":"know."},{"startTime":2632.399,"endTime":2633.56,"body":"Yeah. Yeah,"},{"startTime":2634.08,"endTime":2638.31,"body":"those were kind of my two take two main takeaways as at"},{"startTime":2638.32,"endTime":2640.969,"body":"le at least it relates to the work that I do."},{"startTime":2641.51,"endTime":2645.169,"body":"I wanted to support Jackie's point about the catalogs."},{"startTime":2645.27,"endTime":2647.159,"body":"I feel like frequently,"},{"startTime":2647.439,"endTime":2650.729,"body":"it was almost surprising how often I heard that"},{"startTime":2650.77,"endTime":2653.939,"body":"catalogs aren't required for institutions to hold on to"},{"startTime":2654.139,"endTime":2656.719,"body":"or provide in student records trans,"},{"startTime":2657.455,"endTime":2661.004,"body":"but they are the things that are going to save students"},{"startTime":2661.314,"endTime":2666.655,"body":"making sure they get credit and continuing their programs of study in major ways."},{"startTime":2666.745,"endTime":2669.475,"body":"Because when a closure happens from the"},{"startTime":2669.485,"endTime":2672.225,"body":"conversations we had with people and they're"},{"startTime":2672.574,"endTime":2675.544,"body":"trying to figure things out for students in the best way they can,"},{"startTime":2675.885,"endTime":2679.824,"body":"they might be willing to be a little bit more flexible in their teach out agreements."},{"startTime":2680.114,"endTime":2682.745,"body":"They might be willing to let some stuff transfer in"},{"startTime":2683.36,"endTime":2688.62,"body":"as a service to that student and to uphold their part in the teach out agreement."},{"startTime":2688.81,"endTime":2691.689,"body":"So just knowing that this is a period where"},{"startTime":2691.699,"endTime":2694.1,"body":"students might have a little bit more flexibility,"},{"startTime":2694.399,"endTime":2697.84,"body":"but those catalog records are really what's going to save them."},{"startTime":2697.85,"endTime":2700.06,"body":"Um If they have a place that they can look to,"},{"startTime":2700.07,"endTime":2704.53,"body":"that describes their program of study or the content of the courses"},{"startTime":2704.899,"endTime":2706.979,"body":"that is going to be really helpful."},{"startTime":2706.989,"endTime":2710.239,"body":"And I think that's one of the interesting things that we learned from,"},{"startTime":2710.25,"endTime":2712.459,"body":"from talking to some of the stuff that we did."},{"startTime":2712.939,"endTime":2714.12,"body":"I also"},{"startTime":2715.239,"endTime":2718.179,"body":"one takeaway that I wanted to know and I'm not"},{"startTime":2718.189,"endTime":2720.58,"body":"sure that I had a chance to say this earlier,"},{"startTime":2720.59,"endTime":2721.139,"body":"but"},{"startTime":2721.409,"endTime":2723.3,"body":"one important takeaway is that"},{"startTime":2723.51,"endTime":2726.81,"body":"institutions which close abruptly when we've talked about"},{"startTime":2726.82,"endTime":2729.8,"body":"the differences between orderly and abrupt closures,"},{"startTime":2730.07,"endTime":2731.149,"body":"those students that"},{"startTime":2731.37,"endTime":2735.439,"body":"are those colleges that close, more abruptly enroll more students."},{"startTime":2735.774,"endTime":2739.064,"body":"And Jackie had touched on some of those student groups earlier,"},{"startTime":2739.205,"endTime":2740.475,"body":"but in general,"},{"startTime":2740.485,"endTime":2745.685,"body":"closed institutions enroll higher numbers of students of color women,"},{"startTime":2745.705,"endTime":2749.504,"body":"veterans who might be dependent on G I bill benefits"},{"startTime":2749.685,"endTime":2752.104,"body":"low income students who might be"},{"startTime":2752.215,"endTime":2756.205,"body":"relying on Pell grants and also adult students with Children."},{"startTime":2756.695,"endTime":2760.544,"body":"That's exactly the population of students that need"},{"startTime":2760.705,"endTime":2763.114,"body":"extra support anyway. And"},{"startTime":2763.254,"endTime":2765.034,"body":"it's like a double whammy for them."},{"startTime":2765.28,"endTime":2765.85,"body":"Yes,"},{"startTime":2766.699,"endTime":2769.83,"body":"this is just a fascinating part of"},{"startTime":2770.139,"endTime":2774.08,"body":"the work that we do and it really shines a light"},{"startTime":2774.09,"endTime":2776.479,"body":"especially on the catalog and curriculum"},{"startTime":2776.489,"endTime":2779.36,"body":"management pieces within a registrar's office"},{"startTime":2779.629,"endTime":2780.639,"body":"because"},{"startTime":2780.84,"endTime":2786.28,"body":"there are ways to digitize those processes and to create"},{"startTime":2786.429,"endTime":2789.76,"body":"digital catalogs. Now, today Mason uses one"},{"startTime":2790.0,"endTime":2793.75,"body":"but you know, historically, if we had to go back 3040 years,"},{"startTime":2793.76,"endTime":2798.229,"body":"those are all still paper and to be able to provide, those are"},{"startTime":2798.379,"endTime":2800.58,"body":"in a digital format would be a lift."},{"startTime":2801.02,"endTime":2802.26,"body":"And so"},{"startTime":2802.629,"endTime":2805.719,"body":"I think that that's one really important takeaway,"},{"startTime":2805.729,"endTime":2810.219,"body":"especially for registrars who are responsible for the catalog production"},{"startTime":2810.25,"endTime":2814.489,"body":"is to make sure that there's a virtual option,"},{"startTime":2814.5,"endTime":2816.139,"body":"a digital copy available."},{"startTime":2816.459,"endTime":2817.6,"body":"There was um"},{"startTime":2817.83,"endTime":2823.379,"body":"within the, within the first, I think six weeks, we had Iowa Wesleyan Foley,"},{"startTime":2823.61,"endTime":2829.04,"body":"we had a request for catalog information from 2003. And so"},{"startTime":2829.239,"endTime":2835.159,"body":"I digitalized that one amongst the newer ones and it was a request for all classes."},{"startTime":2835.169,"endTime":2838.719,"body":"So just handed off all of the catalog information"},{"startTime":2839.33,"endTime":2841.239,"body":"and not to go into detail."},{"startTime":2841.25,"endTime":2845.159,"body":"But it takes me about an hour to do it for each one give or take depending on"},{"startTime":2845.429,"endTime":2849.37,"body":"the how the catalog is bound and, and things like that and how, well,"},{"startTime":2849.379,"endTime":2851.77,"body":"my scanner is cooperating but,"},{"startTime":2852.06,"endTime":2857.52,"body":"you know, 40 catalogs is 8, 40 catalogs is 40 hours, you know, like you're,"},{"startTime":2857.54,"endTime":2858.879,"body":"you're going, going hard."},{"startTime":2858.889,"endTime":2862.84,"body":"And I think that's pretty, I think that's relatively efficient for a person. But"},{"startTime":2863.699,"endTime":2863.879,"body":"yeah, I"},{"startTime":2864.139,"endTime":2864.37,"body":"don't,"},{"startTime":2865.179,"endTime":2871.32,"body":"are there any closing thoughts that you have? Are there things that you would say to"},{"startTime":2871.58,"endTime":2872.399,"body":"staff,"},{"startTime":2872.57,"endTime":2877.479,"body":"either at receiving institutions or staff at the closing institutions"},{"startTime":2877.58,"endTime":2883.949,"body":"that might help or guide or any other sort of broad summary kinds of things?"},{"startTime":2883.959,"endTime":2887.27,"body":"I think from my perspective, patience, empathy."},{"startTime":2887.28,"endTime":2891.02,"body":"And I think I said it earlier process is really important."},{"startTime":2891.429,"endTime":2894.03,"body":"You know, one of the things that I heard in conversation,"},{"startTime":2894.04,"endTime":2897.469,"body":"especially probably mid conversation with Iowa Wesleyan"},{"startTime":2897.86,"endTime":2898.81,"body":"was that"},{"startTime":2899.179,"endTime":2901.649,"body":"from one of the individuals at Iowa Wesleyan was that"},{"startTime":2901.659,"endTime":2904.169,"body":"we were the only thing that was working well for them"},{"startTime":2904.689,"endTime":2910.09,"body":"in terms of process in terms of making sure that things were, were going well"},{"startTime":2910.379,"endTime":2912.649,"body":"um and moving forward as they were supposed to."},{"startTime":2912.83,"endTime":2913.699,"body":"And so"},{"startTime":2913.899,"endTime":2916.729,"body":"when I heard that I felt really good about how it was going."},{"startTime":2916.739,"endTime":2919.735,"body":"And like I said, it was the first school I had taken in"},{"startTime":2920.135,"endTime":2921.685,"body":"in real time. And so"},{"startTime":2921.985,"endTime":2924.364,"body":"that was nice to know that it, it works,"},{"startTime":2924.475,"endTime":2927.125,"body":"but you have to give it some thought and you have to have,"},{"startTime":2927.145,"endTime":2931.264,"body":"I think gone through some fire for a little bit to get to where you need to be."},{"startTime":2931.274,"endTime":2935.564,"body":"Nobody wants to think about closures, whether you're receiving or closing."},{"startTime":2935.574,"endTime":2939.655,"body":"But I think especially in higher education, it's really important."},{"startTime":2939.955,"endTime":2941.544,"body":"I think it is important as a higher,"},{"startTime":2941.554,"endTime":2944.175,"body":"higher education professional to think about it at"},{"startTime":2944.185,"endTime":2946.405,"body":"least a little bit because it's not,"},{"startTime":2946.78,"endTime":2949.01,"body":"it's not something that can't happen, it can"},{"startTime":2949.379,"endTime":2950.449,"body":"and it does."},{"startTime":2950.969,"endTime":2955.85,"body":"And may you be fortunate enough to not have experienced it as a student,"},{"startTime":2955.86,"endTime":2957.439,"body":"faculty or staff member?"},{"startTime":2959.86,"endTime":2964.27,"body":"Well, thank you both for your time and for sharing your expertise with this."},{"startTime":2964.28,"endTime":2966.07,"body":"This is a fascinating"},{"startTime":2966.27,"endTime":2968.56,"body":"aspect of registrar"},{"startTime":2969.11,"endTime":2971.889,"body":"that again as Jackie, you just pointed out,"},{"startTime":2971.899,"endTime":2973.79,"body":"we don't spend a lot of time thinking about."},{"startTime":2973.8,"endTime":2976.34,"body":"We definitely don't spend a lot of time talking about."},{"startTime":2976.35,"endTime":2979.189,"body":"So I appreciate you being here and sharing your insights."},{"startTime":2979.55,"endTime":2981.889,"body":"Thank you so much Doug and I just wanna,"},{"startTime":2981.979,"endTime":2983.81,"body":"I wanted to make sure that we took the time to"},{"startTime":2983.82,"endTime":2986.989,"body":"think our networks and the people who collaborated on this with us"},{"startTime":2987.29,"endTime":2990.989,"body":"just to learn more and what Jackie is doing is so important."},{"startTime":2991.0,"endTime":2995.169,"body":"A lot of, you know, a lot of this is new and there aren't many states that"},{"startTime":2995.34,"endTime":2998.35,"body":"or universities that function as the state depository."},{"startTime":2998.36,"endTime":3002.129,"body":"And so I just want to give kudos to Jackie for all of the work she's doing"},{"startTime":3002.53,"endTime":3005.149,"body":"and navigating some of these questions for the first time."},{"startTime":3005.31,"endTime":3007.08,"body":"-- Yeah, and"},{"startTime":3005.31,"endTime":3007.08,"body":"-- paving the way well done."},{"startTime":3007.33,"endTime":3008.04,"body":"Thank you, Doug."},{"startTime":3008.05,"endTime":3011.01,"body":"We really appreciate it and shout out to Hannah for being"},{"startTime":3011.02,"endTime":3014.389,"body":"like the fact and research person that I am not."},{"startTime":3014.399,"endTime":3016.81,"body":"So it's kind of a ying and Yang situation."},{"startTime":3017.169,"endTime":3017.85,"body":"That's awesome."},{"startTime":3019.52,"endTime":3020.459,"body":"Thanks for listening."},{"startTime":3021.03,"endTime":3024.31,"body":"I hope that you never have to experience an institutional closure"},{"startTime":3024.32,"endTime":3028.899,"body":"either as the institution that's closing or as the receiving institution."},{"startTime":3029.179,"endTime":3032.1,"body":"But it's nice to know a little bit about the process"},{"startTime":3032.11,"endTime":3035.3,"body":"and to be able to share in others experiences of it."},{"startTime":3035.84,"endTime":3038.1,"body":"So thank you to Hannah and Jackie for sharing."},{"startTime":3038.729,"endTime":3040.52,"body":"This will be the last episode before the"},{"startTime":3040.53,"endTime":3043.909,"body":"annual meeting in Columbus Ohio in early April."},{"startTime":3044.11,"endTime":3048.07,"body":"I hope that you're planning on attending and I hope that I will get to see you there."},{"startTime":3048.649,"endTime":3051.08,"body":"I also want to take a moment to thank Sarah Reed for"},{"startTime":3051.09,"endTime":3054.729,"body":"all of her many and varied contributions to for the record."},{"startTime":3054.739,"endTime":3056.149,"body":"Over the last two years,"},{"startTime":3056.8,"endTime":3060.199,"body":"Sarah came in and provided a spark to the podcast"},{"startTime":3060.209,"endTime":3064.239,"body":"and produced a bunch of really meaningful and interesting episodes."},{"startTime":3064.52,"endTime":3068.12,"body":"I appreciate her openness and vulnerability and the way"},{"startTime":3068.129,"endTime":3071.229,"body":"that she brought those qualities out in our guests."},{"startTime":3071.489,"endTime":3072.639,"body":"Keep rocking Sarah."},{"startTime":3072.909,"endTime":3078.26,"body":"I look forward to seeing what's next for you in acro and in life. Thank you."},{"startTime":3079.51,"endTime":3082.689,"body":"And as always, thank you for listening."},{"startTime":3083.34,"endTime":3088.429,"body":"If you are enjoying the podcast, please forward it on to a colleague or a friend"},{"startTime":3088.87,"endTime":3090.659,"body":"and if you're not enjoying it,"},{"startTime":3090.669,"endTime":3093.3,"body":"a why are you still listening and b go ahead"},{"startTime":3093.31,"endTime":3095.32,"body":"and forward it on to someone you don't like."},{"startTime":3097.1,"endTime":3098.629,"body":"I'm kidding. I'm kidding."},{"startTime":3098.889,"endTime":3101.59,"body":"I hope you listen in good health and in happiness."},{"startTime":3109.889,"endTime":3113.82,"body":"All right. That is a wrap for season six."},{"startTime":3114.25,"endTime":3116.08,"body":"I'll see you at the annual meeting."},{"startTime":3116.389,"endTime":3118.919,"body":"I'm Doug mckenna. This is for the record."},{"startTime":3132.52,"endTime":3133.229,"body":"Ok. Yeah, we'll"},{"startTime":3133.379,"endTime":3133.8,"body":"back."},{"startTime":3134.25,"endTime":3137.229,"body":"-- Ok."},{"startTime":3134.25,"endTime":3137.229,"body":"-- Sorry if I'm making the editing process more."},{"startTime":3140.01,"endTime":3140.12,"body":"It"},{"startTime":3140.54,"endTime":3142.229,"body":"is not, it, it'll be great."},{"startTime":3142.459,"endTime":3143.27,"body":"Yeah, it'll be great."}]}