Naked at the Top

Building wealth without losing yourself | Tal Evans

• Aleyx Ward • Season 1 • Episode 6

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What does it really take to build wealth without losing yourself along the way? Tal Evans shares his powerful story of growing up in a poor migrant family, and how those early struggles shaped his resilience, mindset, and approach to business.

From starting with nothing to creating lasting success, Tal opens up about the lessons he learned through failure, leadership challenges, and building teams that thrive. He breaks down what resilience actually looks like when things get tough, and why mentorship, planning, and strategy are non-negotiables for any entrepreneur.

This episode is packed with honest reflections and practical wisdom – from the dark side of micromanagement to why passion alone isn’t enough, and even how a prank turned into a long-running tradition in his business journey. Tal’s story proves that success is never just about money – it’s about purpose, people, and the courage to do things differently.

If you’re starting your own business or leading a team, this conversation will give you real, straight-talking insights that you won’t find in a textbook.

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Aleyx:

Hello and welcome to Naked At the Top. Today's guest is a growth folks focused technology leader who's led$180 million businesses fix the unfixable and founded multiple startups. He's built and led high performing IT software and sales and operations teams. But what stands out most is how we lead people. He now runs Majestic Computer Technology, a digital advisory, helping leaders grow revenue, cut costs, and sleep better at night by getting their IT automation and cybersecurity foundations. He's also a trained family business advisory advisor. But what stands out most about Tal is his congruency. What Tal says, what he thinks and how he acts is all aligned. Tal, welcome to Naked at the Top.

Tal Evans:

Thank you for having me, Aleyx.

Aleyx:

Now Tal we like to keep it, a bit, have a bit of fun on, this podcast. So I wanted to open up with, something that I'd heard from your friend Alan, around your name. And it said it's a bit of a magnet for puns and playful jokes. Do you have a favorite story of, someone making a bit of fun at your name? I'd love to hear how.

Tal Evans:

yeah. look, Aleyx, I, I'm a migrant, to this wonderful country of ours, here in Australia. Came here as a teenager. In fact, I was 13 when I arrived here. And, can be very, cruel. Yeah. it's what started off as, as someone having a go at me ultimately became throughout my life. And, had every variations of my name. told to me that I don't think you could come up with something new. I've towel, kitchen towel, Taj Mahal, name it. It's come along at some point in time. But,

Aleyx:

Yeah.

Tal Evans:

I, certainly find it funny nowadays. Probably not so much, find it funny when I was 13 or 14. But,

Aleyx:

Yeah.

Tal Evans:

yeah, we've had some good laughs on different variations of my name.

Aleyx:

Do you find the, bringing in that kind of humor, I'm sure it was harder growing up. So do you find that seeing the lighter side and the humor that, that, that kind of helps with, things like that?

Tal Evans:

look, absolutely. I often get people will ask who don't necessarily understand or know my background. I'll have people ask, oh, Is that, it, is it tile short for something Talbot what, is it short for? and and I'll say something along the lines of, no, that's, growing up, we were very poor. And, those shows, where, TV shows, where you have to buy a letter or buy a vowel and they flip the, letters around on, the.

Aleyx:

Count down. Yeah.

Tal Evans:

my, my parents only enough money for one, one vowel and two other letters, and,

Aleyx:

What kind of reactions do you get? do people laugh or do some people Oh.

Tal Evans:

of the time people think, most of the time I think people just don't know how to take me. Aleyx, I, it's. They're, just not sure, Am I for real or what? I have a whole other story around, our family name, so my surname can spend hours on this.

Aleyx:

you're in good company.'cause, being British, we, tend to be very sarcastic, I do, get the dry sense of humor, and I do enjoy it. so I'd love to just, just dive into, you've, obviously done a lot, you've had a few different businesses and worn, many different hats. Like what, is it about building businesses that you love so much?

Tal Evans:

I think in the first instance it's, sense of, a sense of control. I am, a self, or confessed, I should say, probably more than professed. Individual that is, that, that likes, control and things to be organised and so on and so forth. and so what I've tended to find is that when, when I'm running my own business. I have the greatest ability to express myself in the way in which I would like to express myself and to drive my own direction, drive my own views. Look, to be fair, I've worked for other people in the past as well over the course of my, my career. but I've just, found that I've enjoyed the ability to chart my own course more.

Aleyx:

Yeah. Yeah. nice. and you've, founded and built many startups, but also, within the form that you shared with me, you've, been part of, acquisitions and, had to fix businesses. when they haven't been doing well. So what's one lesson that, that you've learned about that, that makes businesses truly resilient? either from the scratch or building them back up again?

Tal Evans:

I think that probably the first thing that comes to mind is leadership. I think that for any business to be successful, you need to have someone with a good blend of vision, as well as, a very clear understanding of themselves and their own. Strength and weaknesses. Not one is good at everything. Understanding and being honest with yourself or for, in my case, for me to be honest with myself. I know what I'm good at and what I'm not good at, then it's about recognising that and saying, for these particular elements, I need to surround myself with other people who are good at those other things that I'm not necessarily good at. it's also very important to, not delay things that you don't enjoy doing. I endeavor as much as possible, and say I'm human, so I'm not necessarily always doing what I know I should do, but as much as possible, try to do the things that, should be done first. Because it gets it outta the way.

Aleyx:

So the hard task first thing in the morning? Yeah.

Tal Evans:

what happens is that you end up not doing those hard tasks. yeah, so getting building discipline and cadence around doing the stuff that you don't enjoy doing is incredibly important. empathy is very important. I think that it's, and it's not. I think that there's a. Great distinction between empathy and sympathy, of course, empathetic is to put yourself in the shoes of somebody else and understand what they're thinking and how they're feeling. And that's not necessarily always possible. but, whenever I'm having any conversation with any of, Certainly in our, in the case of our business with my direct reports, it's understanding what stage they are in their lives and what they're going through and how do we go about facilitating a better outcome for them. Because ultimately Aleyx, it needs to be win-win, right? for me to win and for other pla other people to, there's a meme, And it's a, a business owner, hanging out of the window in his brand new Ferrari or Lamborghini or something. And, there's an employee, of his, his, standing over, outside of the car and saying, oh, wow, that's a wonderful car you've got there. And, that CEO says, yes, I have this new car because you've done really well. And if you continue to do really well next year, I'll have another one. when you build a business, it's important to make sure that you take other people along on the journey. Other to, be successful in their own right. Otherwise it doesn't work. so now you asked a multi-part question, you asked what does it take to, to build a good business? Having, financial prudence is important. Yeah. I all too often see, and in fact if you think about it, really in Australia, the majority of businesses are small businesses. We've got what, one point something bus million businesses in this country or something ridiculous like that. the majority of them, are employing. under 20 staff,

Aleyx:

Yeah, and I think it's something like 70% fail within the first two years as well, so that's quite a high percent

Tal Evans:

are not really encouraging. It

Aleyx:

no.

Tal Evans:

doesn't exactly make fill you with confidence to get up in the start a business today. a lot of that I feel comes down to are very passionate about whatever it is that they're doing. you wouldn't get up and start a business. You're good at something. You've got some kind of vocation that you feel very strongly about. might be associated with a bigger cause. It might be just, this is how you're wired. whatever the case may be. Yeah. you you start a business. That's not enough. That's, that having the, people talk about great, people talk about tenacity, whatever words that they might choose to use. but, it's, that's not enough. You, need to understand what are the metrics that you're going to measure yourself and, the business, uh, to drive inertia to, to gain the momentum around what constitutes success for you. Yeah. some of those metrics are financial, some of them are, whatever other areas. But really for a, business owner or a business leader to set themselves a set of KPIs that they're going to hold themselves accountable to, I think it's also really important to have, at least one mentor in your life at any point in time. it's very difficult for human beings to be critical of themselves. It's a lot easier to, look at the positives and what it is that you're doing and not consider or take into account the things that you're not doing or even the things that you said you are going to do, which you then do because it's like one of those hard things that, Coming to that path of the conversation from earlier. so having, someone that holds. you as a, business owner, particularly in the early stages of business to account, grows, of course that changes. I've been involved in much larger businesses in the past where we've had a, board, it was a professional board. We hired and paid people to be involved on that board together with us. that accountability took a completely different lens. by that stage of a business, but in a smaller business, having someone, even if they're on the outside, because really at the end of the day, if you've got, my case, I've got a team of people, we have conversations periodically about how they're doing, what, they like, what they don't like, how are they performing, what's going on with their KPI, all those kind of things, right? but as a, as the CEO, or direct or managing director, whatever you wanna call it, you don't have that luxury. So somehow build that into, the structure of the business from a financial prudence perspective. and that to touch back on to, on the issue of fixing businesses, invariably when businesses are not working, it's not because it's less often because didn't have a good idea, and it's more often because they didn't execute something very well.

Aleyx:

Right.

Tal Evans:

So being really clear on, what are the revenue metrics, what are the profitability metrics? do you make sure that you've got enough money? Excuse me. how do you make sure that you've got enough money, available within the business to weather problems that you didn't anticipate? Spending a lot of time on anticipating what are the likely problems, what are the potential eventualities? People will often plan for some eventualities, but not necessarily for all. it's not enough to just plan for, what would happen if you lost your biggest client. Or if you lost 30% of your clients tomorrow and how would the business survive that and what you would need to do at that point in time, but also to plan for what would happen if you all of a sudden had an increase of 50% in business activity? How would you sustain that? What would that look like? would you go about ramping up resources within the business that rapidly? Do you even have the mechanisms? To enable that kind of growth in the business or will it break it? Yeah. so I, find, there's, it's, not a cliche, but it's certainly an overused saying that if you, fail to plan, you plan to fail, and, and planning for both would be considered to be a really bad outcome, as well as what would be considered to be a really good outcome is equally as important.

Aleyx:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You've given me, given, certainly given me a long list of, things to, to look at, but I, think it's important and you often hear people talking about, being in the present moment, but you've, as you say, you've got a plan for, both event, both things that, that may or may not happen. I heard, I was listening to a podcast a few days ago and, this person saying that he'd grown to a certain point where he hired a big team, but then what happened is his biggest client dropped out and then, it was. He eventually had to close the business down'cause he hadn't planned for all those different eventualities. So yeah, it's really important. So for you, you mentioned there as well, when you're the CEO or running a company, you don't always have that, the, peer to peer. So who's been a mentor for you in those instances?

Tal Evans:

Okay. so look, I've been, think I've been incredibly lucky because I've had a few very good people in my life, who have been willing to contribute some of their time. that's really the simplest way to look at it. over the last few years, there's a fellow who is very dear to me by the name of Michael Lapin. we meet, not so much more recently, he's been traveling more, but certainly over a number of years now. We meet, reasonably regular, regularly. we have a lunch together somewhere at one of one of our many favorite places, and we sit down and talk about what's going on in the business. Michael a very long career, predominantly in the technology sector. He's been managing director CEO for a number of very notable companies, including, W Computers, which is a very large global, It firm, exist anymore. But, to say that, he's done a whole bunch of really exciting things in his life and, and I'm, he's happy to share those things with, and he challenges me on a few different things. there's a, fellow called Gary Hoover, who's been in my life now for, over 15 years. Gary and I, first and foremost friends, and when I set out to do what I'm doing now, which ultimately, became, majestic and, we've made another, investment since then. Gary was very keen to, to help me. it was a really low point in my life. I'd, exited another business, not in the, best possible way. and, we were sitting there having lunch one day and he said to me, and mind you, at that stage, I'm in my mid forties, he said to me, Charles, what do you wanna do when you grow up? And, literally over the course of lunch, on the back of an envelope, or it wasn't an envelope, it was a survey. Eight. we drew the basis of a plan for, what became, what we're doing now.

Aleyx:

Oh wow. So Majestic started on a napkin.

Tal Evans:

and more, more or less. Yes. so that's, that was. Pretty cool. and, really in that particular instance, Gary didn't just offer a hand in the form of, ongoing mentorship, but we, actually at that point in time, struck a partnership. Gary became, he's not actively involved in, in, in, the, from an executive. management perspective. but I, in a sense, I have a board, with one other director, and he's, a minority shareholder in the business. So he takes a real active interest what we're doing, but we have regular conversations. he's got an incredible memory. He, he also writes a lot in his iPad, so we'll have a conversation. He will write things down and six months from now he'll say, ta by the way, that thing that you said you were going to do, what happened with that? I haven't anything about it. What's going right? So we'll have those kind of conversations and they can be pretty robust conversations. And I welcome those. So what I'm running now, which is a much smaller business than what I've run in the past, don't have the luxury of hiring and paying, a professional board. and really for me, Gary, is that, Gary has also run a number of different businesses, amongst other things. He was, of the founding group, that founded a small business. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's called car sales.com.

Aleyx:

Oh yes. Yeah, I've heard of that one.

Tal Evans:

So

Aleyx:

Wow.

Tal Evans:

he's done a few things in his life that have put him in really good stead. and, Gary's on the board our board. He's on the board of a number of other organisations, that he's involved with that are doing really well. so yeah, important.

Aleyx:

Yeah. So a good piece of advice then for listeners is, even if it is a small, company, then you can get your own, almost like your, own board, by having these mentors and people in your life that can guide you and, support you, sounds like,

Tal Evans:

look, I think, I mean for me, my motivat, I'm not motivated by any kind of greed. so I was very grateful for, for Gary's involvement. it was monumental for me. It was, I would say a quite a low point in my life. and, and Gary, knowing what I've done in the past and, seeing what I've done in the past came and pulled me out. and, and here we are today. I, can't thank him enough, really. in that instance, considering having someone with an equity stake the business, even if it's not a stake at a level that can alter the course of ultimate decision making in the business, but for someone to, if you can afford to pay. a non-exec board or board members to get involved in regular with cadence in board meetings. And you put the right structure in place by all means, but that doesn't necessarily work for the majority of businesses. What we spoke earlier about businesses being small, that doesn't necessarily work. starting off. With someone that has, an, active interest because they've got an equity stake, can set things in motion. at a point now where, we have the capacity to pay, directors. so we've moved forward into that model where we're doing that as well. But Yeah. it's horses for courses.

Aleyx:

Yeah. Yeah. and it's all about relationship building, isn't it? And having those supportive people around you and you are as a leader, within your business, you, offer that support to your teams. And as I spoke to a few people ahead of this interview to get a sense of, what's. What's Tal as a leader? and, Nathan, who's your operations manager, he told me that you're not a micromanager. You set the outcomes, you offer the mentorship, but then, you get out of the way essentially. And, Alan also said that, You're great at making sure people have the right opportunities, tools, and environment to succeed. how does that feel hearing, other people describe your leadership, how does it feel hearing that back

Tal Evans:

look very, warm and fuzzy, really. a lot of people say that it's lonely at the top. It's only lonely at the top if you make it that way. I don't want to be lonely at the top. So the idea here is that, you drag people along with you, and dragging people along with you. You can't do it. You can't force people situation. it needs to be, it needs to be by design. so I think that, I've experienced micromanagement in the past. it's very unfulfilling, for people who are, very capable in their own right. it's all good and well, and look, I acknowledge the fact that there are people in this world who just want to be told what to do, and that's their lot. And they're happy with that. Yeah. and you need some of those people in a business. You need people that you can depend on that they'll get up, they'll do the process work that's required. They'll do it to a consistent standard every day, but they're not the ones that are going to innovate. They're not the ones that are going to come up with a great ideas that make businesses great. So to surround yourself with a bunch of really clever, very capable people, and then start telling them every minute of every day what you want them to do. It's counterintuitive, really? no, I definitely don't do that. fact, I think that all that will do is just create more work for me.

Aleyx:

It's important that you have, all the. Right people around you and being able to, recruit the people that work well with you and with the team, do, how do you go about doing that? Do you have a particular recruitment style that you, use within your company? I.

Tal Evans:

we use those same or similar methodologies when we are looking to hire people, well as in the way in which we look to engage with new clients. we, use a bunch of different HR tools. we do profiling. a personality perspective, we, try and gain an understanding of the individual's motivators. think certainly Apti aptitude plays a part in the equation depending on what role we're hiring for. Obviously if it's a more junior role, it's less about aptitude, more about attitude, in more senior roles, you want to know that the individual has a track record of success in a certain area. we are still at the point in time in our lives as a business in the life of the business that we, hire individuals who haven't necessarily done a particular role before. So it'll be a growth opportunity for them. As a business matures, you're then looking for people who already have a demonstrable track record doing exactly or the same thing, or in a similar role or in a similar capacity. but I would say first and foremost it's understanding how is it that, that a new individual joining our team, how are they going to compliment what the rest of the team are like behaviorally? So we want some people that are quieter. We want some people that are really loud. we want some people who, overshare and we want some people that unders share. want some people who are, who, like different things. want people who, even simple things like, having a different writing style, for instance. so that people then have the opportunity to challenge each other if we have facsimile copies, in, a business. no growth happens.

Aleyx:

it's similar in life as well. I often, enjoy meeting someone that, that thinks different to me or has a different opinion and, because I want to learn from them. It's not like I'm right and you're wrong. It's oh, you, that, that's different to how I think. And I, then get curious, tell me more. Sometimes people don't always want to talk about it. Specifically if it's political, I, am, because they think it's gonna be an argument. I'm like, no, I'm genuinely curious. Let me understand, why did you support Trump, for example? but some people shy away from that and don't enjoy it. But I think it's, I think it's really important. I spoke to, Nathan yesterday and he told me about when he, when you interviewed him for the job. It was. A lot more conversational than he might have expected. And really, you were obviously really tapping into, him and learning more about him. How important do you think that is, for hiring the right people?

Tal Evans:

Oh. that's how I behave, so it would stand to reason that it's super important, uh, for me. look, and I'm, mindful of not speaking in, cliches. Yeah. but hiring for attitude is so much more important than capability. I think that technical skills, we're in a technical space. Uh, every industry has its technical elements, of course, but we are in it in technology. So everything we do is all about the, technical capability. technical capability is completely useless unless you've got the capacity to convey it and share it with others. Explain to others what it is that you're doing, why you're doing it. people that we work with don't really understand what we understand in the same way. if we can't pass that message across, it's gonna go nowhere. for me, what a person feels, how a person, the person's belief system is, what do they do in the outside world? how do they interact with their family? do they have a wife or a husband a children or dog or doesn't matter what it is. Understanding more broadly the human, is far more important when deciding how to bring pieces onto the board. there is a, particular, business philosophy, which uses certain terminology and the terminology talks to, having the right people on the bus the right people in the right seats on the bus. Now sometimes it's a little bit more difficult to work out. the people are in the right seats. that's important. Absolutely. But making sure that the right people are on the bus is even more important.'cause all it takes is one wrong person on the bus completely disrupt where the bus is heading.

Aleyx:

Has that ever happened in your, within one of your businesses? Yeah.

Tal Evans:

Aleyx, I've been, involved in running business now for over three and a half decades it's happened more than once. with all of the good theories and all of the good philosophies that we want to have and all of the experience I've hired, hundreds of people, you never, ever cease to make some mistakes. And they can happen for a variety of reasons. Yeah. most often than not the decision. I think that when I look at it in hindsight, realised that I've overlooked certain things because I was pressed into a position that I needed somebody in a seat. So every time that you put. Sorry. Every time that I put getting a seat filled ahead of making sure that the right people are on the bus, it has the potential to, a, negative ripple effect.

Aleyx:

So if it's been more of a snap quick decision, sometimes.

Tal Evans:

not necessarily about quick. Sometimes we operate in market conditions that mean that, we're looking for a specific skillset hard to come by. and I fall into this sense of, that's, that'll be okay. That's not a big problem. and that little problem becomes a big problem at some point. Yeah. I think that every time that happens, what's really important is to stop and say, okay, what's really more important here, to, fill the seat or to make sure that we've got right people on the bus. I would say that every time, having the right people on the bus is more important. You can completely undo in a whole business by having the so even if it means now, certainly nowadays, even if it means that we don't secure a contract with a new client because I don't have the capacity or whatever the case may be, and something that happens very often because I think we planned ourselves reasonably well. But even if that were to happen, my reaction would be, okay, we'll let the contract go. because bringing the wrong person in, will cause bigger problems.

Aleyx:

Yeah. So that's, that, that's being aware of, that's, more long term thinking, isn't it, knowing that, in the short term, yeah, you could bring someone on, but it is not necessarily the right thing for, the business in the long term.

Tal Evans:

And, look, same applies in our relationships with our clients. not every client relationship, or prospective client engagement. one that you, that a business owner or a business leader or, should proceed with relationships, whether they're relationships with people, with staff, with, with other stakeholders, with clients. The, every one of those relationships are two way street.

Aleyx:

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So important. I wanna do a little bit of a, quick gear change in terms of, diving into, the more personal aspects of, t. So I spoke to, Jenny.

Tal Evans:

part?

Aleyx:

Yes.

Tal Evans:

Okay.

Aleyx:

so I sp I spoke to Jenny, yesterday ahead of this and she told me that, you're quite OCD and your house, is immaculate and your ironing is meticulous and that you plan parking before every meeting. So I would love to ask you, what's the most tile thing you've done this week in terms of planning and structure?

Tal Evans:

I start every day with a list of items that I've prepared at the end of the previous business day. There are very few exceptions when something goes awry and I don't have myself organised so that I start with a clear desk morning. I recall on many occasion in, not the business that I'm involved in now, but in a previous business that I was involved with, people who would, new hires into the business, would get, toured around the, headquarters and, so someone would walk the individual into my office at some point. to introduce them to me a director in the business, and they'd come in and they would say, this is tile, blah, blah, blah. we're not quite sure what tile does because there's never anything on his desk. and look, so yes, that's how I am. but I think that don't have, we don't have boundaries in our brains. I think that how we are externally is a reflection of how we are internally, and if you are disorganised, then that leads to chaos. Yeah. So what's the most me thing that I've done, this week? Look, we're only at the, start of the week, but, probably that I spent time. watching the video, uh, that you'd sent me in because I am. I prepare, uh, I, I was seated at my desk and had everything turned off so it doesn't disrupt me 10 minutes before the meeting. I was composed. I knew that we were going to catch up and have a chat. I've had lots of these kind of conversations in the past so I feel very comfortable in my own skin, have time to, to reflect, I call it navel gazing. Yeah. in fact, I use a another term for it. I need to have time in my day, to look at my belly button and pick out the fluff.

Aleyx:

I love that.

Tal Evans:

Look, I'm also very mindful that there are people who operate base best when there is a level of chaos. Yeah, so I was, I was trying to avoid using the term OCD when we spoke earlier, and I spoke about how organised I am. yeah, that's fair. I am, I own it, and, I understand that I operate best when things are organised. other people, their creativity comes out of. and, an un and disorganised, sorry. An organised disorganisation. Yeah.

Aleyx:

I call it organised chaos.

Tal Evans:

Organised chaos.

Aleyx:

You wouldn't wanna see my desk Tal

Tal Evans:

Okay. And look, and that's fine. That's the beauty about this world. We're not all the same. If we're all, as I said, if we're all copies of each other, how boring would it be? I. for that matter, how would we actually achieve anything? Creativity comes at the point of challenge, it, emanates out disagreement, healthy disagreement, but disagreement nonetheless. I have a certain point of view. You have a different point of view. We're going to add it out and whichever one. Is the better out of the two. That's the one that's gonna mean and no, no ego, right? So, Yes. that's, look, like things organised. I don't have 700 icons on my desktop, on my computer.

Aleyx:

On that point, just what you said there, do you like to be challenged by your team? if you come up with something and, they might disagree or have a different approach, do you like that, challenge within the team as well?

Tal Evans:

I don't just like it. I crave it. Yeah. I can't be. But here's another cliche coming up. I can't be the smartest person in the room because if I am, I'm in the wrong room. Yeah. So I, have to have, people around me who me, challenge the status quo, looking for opportunities for improvement. we, so Majestic is a, is a, an ISO accredited, ISO certified, company we, firmly believe that systems are everything, in every respect in, a business. and part of the quality system that is ISO9001 is the whole concept of opportunities for improvement. I can't be everywhere. I see it. It's not possible. So how do we make sure that we've got a culture, that promotes, Hey, we're doing this thing. We could be doing it differently. That different is actually, ultimately better. put it down on the list and then say when we're going to do it by and actually get on with a job of doing that. Yeah. There've been lots of things that without my team, we wouldn't be where we are today.

Aleyx:

Yeah, it's important. It's important. we're coming towards the end of the episode, Tal, and what I love to do, at the end is do a little, quick fire, a quick fire round so you can either answer dodge or throw it back at me. all right, so what was the last thing you asked chatGPT?

Tal Evans:

To help me with. planning for a 3-year-old, birthday party.

Aleyx:

Love that. Did you get some good answers?

Tal Evans:

I did, yes. They weren't necessarily received very well, but I tried. I thought there were great answers, but anyway,

Aleyx:

What was your favorite one?

Tal Evans:

so it went through and actually outlined and detailed what food to have. what themes, some potential themes that are,'cause I, haven't been three for a long time. so I'm not sure of what are the things that three year olds might like and, my own children are older, so I haven't been exposed to that for a long time. So, just getting a view of what things, what colors, what food, what, all that sort of stuff I think was really important.

Aleyx:

Nice, I've got, my son's gonna be two on Sunday, so maybe I should,

Tal Evans:

you go. So yeah, mind you, it's, the prompting is really important, but that's all other,

Aleyx:

yeah.

Tal Evans:

yeah,

Aleyx:

what's a habit or system that you couldn't live without, you personally,

Tal Evans:

that I can't or couldn't.

Aleyx:

that you couldn't live without?

Tal Evans:

Having my sock and undies drawer really organised. I have everything color coded and lined up. I don't have a drawer where, you know how people I know,'cause I, daughters do that. They put the two socks together and they fold them over to bundle them up so that they can keep the two pairs together. I can't live with.

Aleyx:

Oh, really? Oh really? Oh, that's what I do.

Tal Evans:

Mine folded,

Aleyx:

So do you put all your own washing away then to make sure it's done correctly?

Tal Evans:

not always, but I've, look, been, again, very fortunate that I'm, have very loving family who appreciate my quirks, and. Over time, they've learned that this is how I do things. So if they happen to put things away, they do it the way that I like to have it done. Uh, and likewise, if I go and put stuff away in their drawer, I'll do it the way that they do it. Isn't that what caring for each other all about.

Aleyx:

Yeah, I do have my, my, my husband's more the domesticated one in our house and, but he puts my clothes in the wrong place. So I do tell him I'll just leave mine and I'll put my own clothes away. And he is you've got 24 hours to do it.'cause I often take a while to put my clothes away.

Tal Evans:

You'd get along really well with my eldest daughter.

Aleyx:

What's one thing that you absolutely have to iron?

Tal Evans:

My business shirts,

Aleyx:

Yeah.

Tal Evans:

iron ones, I never really completely non iron.

Aleyx:

Yeah. Jenny told me that you iron everything.

Tal Evans:

Yeah, I, yes, I iron my t-shirts as well.

Aleyx:

what made you laugh this week?

Tal Evans:

Our conversation now of it's been wonderful.

Aleyx:

Oh,

Tal Evans:

I, think that, almost every day, we have, a full, town, meet. cause we're not all in the same place and we've got people out at clients and, just before meetings and whatever. So the best way to get everyone together is, is online. We do that three times a week. and almost every time will crack a joke about something or say something funny. we've got, a couple of people on the team who are super funny. one in particular who you just wouldn't pick. Yeah. But he comes out with some pearls that just crack everyone up. I love having that sort of banter, and most recently, just before this meeting, had a meeting actually with, Jenny. and she made me laugh. that was fantastic. she pointed something out, that, I thought was, she's very perceptive. Yeah.

Aleyx:

Yeah. I really like Jenny.

Tal Evans:

the things that make you laugh most are the truths. If you

Aleyx:

yes.

Tal Evans:

when they

Aleyx:

Yes.

Tal Evans:

and, when do people laugh? People laugh because they're saying something that you know is real and it's maybe uncomfortable, and whatever else. It makes you laugh, right?

Aleyx:

Yeah, my friend recently just did a standup comedy course. I was gonna do it with her, but I, but I couldn't do it. And, she said that when they teach you that, it just to look for the everyday things. So they were like, just take a notebook with you and just every day something annoys you or frustrates you, write it down, because that's where the quality jokes are, because, if I notice it, you'll probably notice it too. So then you stand on chit. Stage. You say a joke about it, you laugh because you're like, oh yeah, that is annoying.

Tal Evans:

yeah.

Aleyx:

yeah. on that point, Alan was telling me about the, the four shots in the coffee. could you just tell us that anecdote because I thought it, it thought it was very funny and, it gave an insight into your character.

Tal Evans:

Okay. I, I'm not quite sure whether it's an insight into my character or an insight into his, or maybe

Aleyx:

I think both.

Tal Evans:

I

Aleyx:

Yeah.

Tal Evans:

probably the alignment between the two. But, Alan and I, and, I find, with, intelligent people. that, that, that tends to be a, an element of one-upmanship, but in the most positive way. Yeah. in funny ways, it's in quirky ways. It's not, oh, I'm smarter than you, or I did something better than you. But it's those kind of little things that make the difference in a relationship and really build relationship. we, the two of us went to, grab a coffee before a meeting, one day. And, we walked into the coffee shop and, and I said to the fellow behind the counter who was going to, who was taking our order, said, I'd like a, black with an extra shot. And the fellow looks back at me and he says, so the long black already has two shots in it. do you, is that okay? And I said, no, However many shots you put in the coffee. Put an extra one because I need, I need like a slap on the face, to, keep me going for the rest of the day. So he took down my order and he turns to Alan and he says, what would you like? He says, I'll have what he's having with, an extra, shot because I need to have one more shot. Right? And so it became the four shot coffee, and, a very, a meeting that we had that we were both at together a couple of weeks ago. Alan was running late. I went to a coffee shop to grab some coffees and I grabbed a coffee for him with four shots.

Aleyx:

I love that so we'll. He always get four shots. Now whenever you buy him a coffee.

Tal Evans:

Look, I think that, we need to watch his heart, but,

Aleyx:

when he told me that yesterday I thought, oh, that, that's funny. I'll need to, I'll need to bring it in. Alright, I could honestly speak to you for hours t but I know we need to wrap it up. So I always like to, ask one, one last question more for the audience. almost like gift for the audience to, to pass it on. So you've obviously built, Of businesses and LED teams, but you've kept it fun along the way. So what would you say to someone right now that's building a business? They've just got their head down. They're really clear on the results, but they're forgetting to enjoy it. What would your advice be?

Tal Evans:

I guess probably the first thing that comes to mind is don't, take yourself too seriously. enjoyment means different things for different people. So I can't sit there and give someone advice who likes other stuff, to, and, base it on what, I might like. But just make sure that there is a, there's a distinction between the, that you understand as an individual. what makes you tick, but that you understand what are the times when you need to be serious and what are the times that you can let go a little? If you live in a constant set of strife, that's not conducive to creativity, and if you don't innovate in a business, then eventually you die. Yeah. The other piece, which is helps a lot in the context of having fun is always build a repeatable revenue stream into the business.

Aleyx:

Yes.

Tal Evans:

Every business that starts with zero in sales at the start of every month, has a much more stressful life. Now, in saying that there are, I. In fast moving computer consumer goods, traditional services context like, the hairdressers or, whatever, every month you, may well start, with zero and it's, it might be harder in some of those instances to, to build a repeatable revenue stream or, plan. revenue stream. But, one of the first thing that I always look at in any business that I'm involved in is how do I ensure that there is an element of revenue that comes in every month that's going to come in next month, and I don't have to start next month with zero. why the first questions that they ask myself, solve some of those existential issues, it's easier to then get into the swing. And into a cadence be comfortable in your skin have some fun with it along the way.

Aleyx:

Fantastic advice. Thank you. Thanks so much for joining me, Tal. It's been a great conversation.

Tal Evans:

Thank you.

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Aleyx Ward

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