Naked at the Top

The Hidden Power of Advisory Boards | Andy Rooke

• Aleyx Ward • Season 1 • Episode 10

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Advisory boards might sound like something reserved for big corporates – but for founders and entrepreneurs, they’re one of the most powerful growth levers you’ve never used.

In this episode of Naked at the Top, we uncover how founders, leaders, and business owners can use advisory boards to sharpen decisions, strengthen strategy, and accelerate personal growth.

Our guest dives into the hidden psychology of leadership, exploring how loneliness, self-doubt, and risk-taking shape the entrepreneurial journey. From career pivots to neuroscience, EQ versus IQ, and the surprising impact of adventure on leadership, this episode gives a masterclass in how to grow both a business and a mindset.

You’ll also discover how boards can transform culture, expand thinking, and hold leaders accountable in ways that traditional management structures can’t.

Whether you’re scaling fast, starting fresh, or just feeling stuck – this is the conversation that’ll help you see your business, and your leadership, differently.

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Aleyx:

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Naked At the Top. Today I am joined by Andy Rooke. Andy, how are you?

Andy Rooke:

Fantastic for a Friday morning, nine o'clock in the morning, wintry day outside in Melbourne. But, yeah, looking forward to having the chat.

Aleyx:

Yeah, great to have you here. could you just start, Andy, by just, introducing yourself and, what you do.

Andy Rooke:

So what I do at the moment is, my pr, my main business is I help, set up and run advisory boards for private businesses. them a sense of, strategy and clarity, focus and, accountability. through the, regular interactions with them. I also do executive coaching. I have a, number of CEOs and managing directors and C-suite people, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, England, that I catch up on a regular basis as well. All different people, different industries.

Aleyx:

So what do you call yourself then? If I had to, if I had to.

Andy Rooke:

Sounds like a dinner party. My wife says,“I don’t know what he does either.” It's a, yeah, it's an issue. Look, I certainly, the, my predominant business and my, my, my absolute real passion, is, is a, I suppose board, advisory board, chair and mentor. and, there's a, there's obviously smaller businesses where it's just me. You are really doing the mentoring coaching piece. to be honest, it's really more, more attuned with just being a founder of a business. I think that's the one that I, because rather than just being the title, but it, that it's, that's a hard game being a founder of a business. And, as and I'm sure a lot of the listeners know it, it can be your proudest achievement despite a proper title.

Aleyx:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. What, what would it is hard and what would you say for, for yourself personally, what's, the hardest part of being a founder?

Andy Rooke:

it is a great question, and this is where I suppose I play a role for people and I'm, I'm, I'm always honest enough to say I'm not impervious to myself, but a certain, there's a bit of a loneliness about it. I think there's not many, people you can often talk to about it. Other founders get it, but a lot of people who haven’t been on that journey and I'm not saying I've risked everything to do it, but you do jump off, and, have to swim frantically. so I think there's that part to it. there's obviously, there's always a bit of a, lack of security about the money and until you get to a certain stage, and again, I'm not saying that I'm not impervious to that either sort of thing. And, when you lose a couple of clients, it always, there's always a bit of a clutch sort of and which happens be, and you just haven't got that security of income and tenure that you have with a business. So I think, yeah, I, it's, it's, more of, it's more of the risk I think that you're taking, backing yourself,

Aleyx:

Yeah. Yeah.

Andy Rooke:

the fallibilities and some of the self-talk that can come with that.

Aleyx:

But counter to that, risk, is it, that is the scary part, but it actually then becomes the most rewarding part, like I've found for myself, oh, this is so scary. But then when you work at it, you're, you become more proud because you've taken that risk as well.

Andy Rooke:

Oh look, absolutely. And, coaching client just, catching up the other day and they've been 20 years working, in one business, in one industry, and they've gone out on their own, albeit the same industry, but we're just talking about. The difference of mindset between being an employee and being a business owner. A founder, and, and the upside is massive. because you're operating on a much, You look at it like a sine wave the highs are higher, the lows are lower. As opposed to when you're an employee, it's in a much narrower band, if that makes sense.

Aleyx:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. and I'd love to just, go back in time a little bit because I know that, you've had many roles and, done many things, so could you just, take us back to where you, you started and, how, you've grown to, to grow where you are now?

Andy Rooke:

Look, I'll try and keep it short because it's, done a lot of things, done and experienced, experimented with lots of things and tried lots of things in my career, but really trying to not use too much time on the podcast is, studied, did a Bachelor of business, in Melbourne. and missed out on marketing, which is my dream, and got into Bachelor of Business. So I became an accountant, ended up, the accounting realm. which, I'm forever grateful for. it, absolutely has given me the foundational understanding of running businesses. That is Critical to what I do now. I didn't know that at the time, obviously, but I was pretty good at it. I'm not a, very great with detail, but I actually enjoyed, understanding a bit more about businesses and what makes them tick and how to make them successful. into, to marketing, and then into general management at an early age. So I was running a. A company called Ski Wanderers here in Melbourne at the age of, I dunno, it must have been 26, 27 or whatever it was for five years. So I was managing, a number of people in offices and we had a couple of lodges in the Victorian mountains. so that was a really early taste of, professionally of, leading people. Then, keeping it short, moved, moved to Sydney. Took on a couple of different jobs in marketing, back into finance, into marketing, and, in a whole range of different industries. All, shortish term, one, two years, which was often seen as a real undoing of a career person back then, we've changed massively. But if I everpoke to a recruiter and they'd look, and they'd see I'd had, five jobs in maybe 10 years, it was always a real red flag for them. And now if you didn't have five jobs in 10 years, they'd think you, you were, were stale, weren't progressing your career fast enough.

Aleyx:

I'll have to tell my husband he is been in his job for 10 years. I'll let him know.

Andy Rooke:

Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then a bit of a change of events. we, we moved out to, to Mudgee to Central New South Wales and, moved out there. We bought a business, we'd already had, my wife and I had a business in Sydney, which she successfully, ran most of it. we bought another one in, Mudgee in Central New South Wales. sheer dent of good fortune, after a year I was, living and working in Sydney and coming out on weekends. Gotta start, in a back, in a finance role. So it's gone forward and backwards a few times back in a finance role, commercial role with one of the coal open cut coal mines out there. That led to an opportunity to go to a brand new Greenfield site, a couple of years of doing commercial there. And then put one of my prouder moments in my career, I got elevated to be the general manager of the mine. I was the first non-mining engineer ever to be appointed manager of a coal mine within the TS group. And they had a lot of managers and a lot of mines. And, that for a couple of years, then left and became the CEO of a of was a, family is a family business of Mitre 10 stores now the largest in New South Wales. did that, for a couple of years, as a CEO, across, added I think six stores to the network and all sorts of things. then, one of my mentors offered me an opportunity to go to, Work embedded within BHPI and Ore in the Pilborough, and, lead a team of 10 coaches, which kind of appealed to me, just to do something back in mining, but radically different. And two years, almost exclusively, I was embedded within BHP Iron Ore in the Pilborough with 10 coaches all across Western Australia working for me, plus me doing some coaching myself. Living in mining camps and working with people and, seeing some, inside of workings of one of the largest companies in Australia. and that, they then picked me out of that and dropped me into BHP Coal for another two years in Queensland. And at that stage I was getting this idea of so about pursuing the coaching, went off and got some, some other coaching qualifications, international coaching, federation, started then morphing more into coaching and then met a guy the same last name as me, Rooke Michael Rooke, who offered me an opportunity to work with him on coaching and also building and running leadership programs for a number of businesses. And so I then morphed into becoming a leadership, development facilitator. And so I, again, I spent a lot of time embedded in Xero, both Australia and New Zealand and a bit in Singapore. We built leadership programs and ran leadership programs, and then also for some of the major infrastructure projects in New South Wales and Victoria. And then the kernel of the idea came up about advisory boards for businesses.

Aleyx:

Nice.

Andy Rooke:

About how we could actually get all the experience and knowledge from retired and semi-retired people and how we could pair that up with private business owners to, to accelerate and, supercharge their, their drive to reaching their potential. and then, so for the last five years, been my real mission and passion and purpose is doing that.

Aleyx:

Yeah. Wow.

Andy Rooke:

Yeah, it's, yeah, it leaves, not that I'd have to deal with con recruiters anymore, but you can imagine some recruiter just, their head exploding and looking at that and going, I don't know what we do with you.

Aleyx:

again, my husband's a recruiter, so I'm gonna

Andy Rooke:

see.

Aleyx:

talk to him about you. so we've got, something common. We, I, as I worked in the mining industry, I worked in manufacturing, sold into the mining industry. So what, was it about the, coal mine that drew you, to that?

Andy Rooke:

Look it, the funny thing is I wouldn't have two years a year prior to, working out at the, mine as late as that. So I was in my mid forties, or thereabouts. I had never set foot in a coal mine in my life. I'd been on a school trip to one in Victoria. It just, it didn't have any, resonance for me whatsoever. Like most of my career, it's really been about going into businesses and industries and immersing myself in them and challenging myself to find out how they work, what are the levers, what are the triggers, what's the culture? How can I, either make it successful, contribute to that success? And it's just, it's, the puzzle and the gamification of business, I think is what does what, what really interest, interests me and excites me. Yeah. the coal mine, it wasn't coal mining as such. I'm not passionate about mining. I'm not anti-mining. I'm about mining, but just going to something completely different from what I've done just immersing myself in it and learning it and not conquering it, but try to understand and bring some different thinking to it.

Aleyx:

That's amazing. and the coaching side of it that, that you did for, BHP, what, were some of the, what were some of the things that you went through in, coaching?

Andy Rooke:

For most people in BHP are in terms of collectively some of the smartest people and the smartest company you'd ever wanna see in terms of they get to pick the best talent, from around the world. and in Australia they get to, they get to pick the crème de la crème of all the university graduates and, anyone else who wants to go and join them. What it was doing was actually taking people and working with people with massively higher iq. And trying to develop their eq, which was usually much lower than the general population and not but because they're such high IQ people, they weren't so good in the, EQ. And explaining to some people yesterday I was drawing some diagrams, in a disc profile session and saying the reason that BHP struggled for engagement is because they had a lot of incredibly high. Intelligent IQ logic focused people, but they weren't people focused. They didn't gravitate towards understanding and, about how to engage and lead teams back to their staff what the staff really needed to supercharge them in being high perform.

Aleyx:

Yeah. It's fascinating. yeah. How long were you there for? A few years.

Andy Rooke:

Two, two years I was doing, fly in, fly out. I'd spend three weeks pretty much in Western Australia, a couple of different mine sites. And then I'd come home to Mudgee for a week or 10 days and then go back again. It was very intense and every day was a 12, 14 hour day. You're living in a mining camp. you're up at four 30 in the morning, you're on site before six. And sometimes I'd change it round. I'd work till for night shift people. I'd work a night shift with them. So I'd come in at six and work till six in the morning with them just to get the people. And also it's a different flavor at nighttime.

Aleyx:

Yes. Yeah.

Andy Rooke:

you've gotta understand and work with people, where they are, in the different environments to help them get better about it.

Aleyx:

Yeah. Yeah. So that's pretty intense. So was it then you had the chance encounter with, Michael to, do something and were you just yep, I'm ready for, I'm ready for something different now?

Andy Rooke:

Yeah, I've been, look, I've been developing coaching and leadership go hand in hand. and certainly I've been doing some bits and pieces there, but it was really, I along the way. I've, and up till now I still heavily immersed myself in the field of neuroscience. So I've got a neuroscience coaching, Qualification as well as I was really, my passion was to try and help people understand more about their brain and their behaviour, and how the two are linked. and then, so Michael allowed me to have a lot of input into our programs to put that in. and then drawing on some of his knowledge and experience around some of the cognitive behaviour theory, some elements of psychology and then some of the, normal. The normal streams of leadership. but because I've done it and I've lived it and I've seen it be able to give some much more life, examples and insights about what and how it, it, it plays out in the real world as opposed to consultants who have probably have never led teams before in, in some fairly trying circumstances.

Aleyx:

Yeah. Yeah. I think that definitely helps because then you can also meet them where they're, where, they are. And I think it's really hard to take advice from someone that may not have lived what you're living. It's okay, yeah, you got the theory, but have you actually done it? So I think that's, so powerful as well to be able to bring. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy Rooke:

I probably should market that a bit more about myself, in all honesty. But yeah, that's when I, when people do engage me, one of the things they say is we just, we wanna work with someone who's actually, who has experienced all these things. because you do, you're not there to completely say, here's my experience. But you can empathise with them probably more closely and, just connect with them better because you've, you, you understand their environment and, also there may be some of the emotions that are coming up for them.

Aleyx:

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So tell me a bit, bit more about the, moment the idea sparked for, your advisory company. Because we sat together at a table and networking. And when you explained, I think I wrote it in a newsletter. because when you explained what your business does, I was like, ah, that's, different. It stands out that the fact you've got retirees on an advisory board. So can you take me back to the moment that idea started to come to fruition?

Andy Rooke:

Yeah, look, it's, it's funny, and, it'd be interesting people who are listening to this as founders, when you have an idea, you can, briefly articulate it and you get really positive responses, it really fuels you to keep going. And I can't remember if it was a conversation with you or someone else, but they said, you tell. Five people your idea, five people you trust and know and they go, wow, that's a great idea. with it, but if those five people are kinda lukewarm about it, you maybe haven't got something that's, really hitting the mark. So I originally had a, the initial stages, I had a, business partner in Queensland. a friend of mine who actually had it, this advisory board idea where he used to every three or six months, get two or three people in over lunch, tell'em a bit about their business and they'd just give some ideas. And I'd been thinking about the same thing. And so started just trying to develop a more formalised model for it. Based on that, based on, I had some private business, that I was doing mentoring and coaching for. and then the idea came up because a few of my friends had been very successful, are very successful, and had built up and sold businesses, made lots of millions, of dollars. And some of them had been very successful. C-Suite people. The message I was getting from them is, I'm bored. like I've done, I've achieved a lot, I've got a lot of money, but I'm bored. they own race horses. They, but they don't, they, they'd kinda lost a bit of their purpose and meaning and, 60 now and I could see how that might impact them. And so I started thinking, why don't I try and get some of those people to, be involved with some. Some of my clients and the initial, marketing pitch was, we'll bring a hundred years of experience into your boardroom. that seemed to resonate quite well with people and then we started experimenting and getting some of them going. And I did a trial one in Mudgee, where I got two senior business people in, in, Mudgee to join in with one of my clients, and I can just immediately see the uplift in, input. and, also sparking inspiration and ideas for the business owners. And so from then onwards, I've been on this, crusade to do it. And so I, and I just, I love it when I can, I can get that mix of right people with business owners who have got the mindset to. Know that bringing other people in is really a benefit. And, look, I won't say it's exploded. We've got about, 15 advisory boards going at the moment sort of thing, some of which are just much smaller businesses. Only me, but we've got half a dozen with other advisors on them. But just a richness to the conversations and the people have got those advisory boards, the broader ones just absolutely love it.

Aleyx:

Yeah, I bet. because it is bringing in different thinking, different experience, that it, that's, it's just, it must be fantastic for the people that are getting to use it. what for you, for the the businesses that you mentor and bring advisory boards on, what would you say is one of the most common problems? for, smaller businesses?

Andy Rooke:

if I was to distil it down, there's always a risk when you're trying to distil, big question down to two simple responses. The, first one is, founders of businesses and owners of businesses, that's all they know. They've been working really hard for 20 years in their business and they've grown from sole operator to partners, to other people, to employees, and maybe it's got to a reasonable size. But they've never lived another life. They've never seen other businesses, they've never seen other industry systems, cultures, backgrounds. And so what we can do, is we can bring all of that real life experience in and help share a whole range of different ideas industries and businesses have and are dealing with, with, similar problems. the second one is it's, again, most of those, business owners, Often stuck in the short termism of their business and are looking a week ahead or, maybe a month ahead if lucky. and they don't, have potentially a really, clear vision and and even tactical actions. And then that accountability that comes with it. Bringing that to people and dragging them every month out of their business, to stop focusing on their emails and taking them to what's it look like in six or 12 months? How are we still on track? What do we need to consider? Where's the icebergs? Where's the opportunities? what are the puzzles at the business faces at the moment? being able to get them to slow themselves down and consider and think with some other different inputs what might be. An improved, better way through the, jungle than what they're doing at the moment.

Aleyx:

Yeah. because sometimes you can get really stuck, like if it's just you or even just a team, but you're just plugged away, putting out fires. You can get really stuck. But being able to. Zoom out, zoom. But with experienced people across different industries, it must give great ideas to be able to, sometimes move in a different direction, than what they'd even imagined. Yeah.

Andy Rooke:

Yeah. Yeah. And look, I say, are just thinking partners. because as an advisory board, you don't make decisions. It's not like a, corporate board where we're there for the shareholders. We're there in this case, for the owners to help partner with them in their thinking. So they. Can actually make better decisions. Now, whether they choose to agree with this or not less relevant than the fact that they hopefully make some better decisions, because they've, taken time, they've got some different ideas and sparked maybe, some different imagination for them.

Aleyx:

Yeah, could you, share a story, you don't have to name them obviously, but share a story of a business owner who's, really turned a corner, after, working with the advisory board.

Andy Rooke:

Look, in terms of turning a corner is again, probably gives too much. Kudos to the advisory

Aleyx:

Yeah.

Andy Rooke:

because it's, but look, a long-term client down here, I'm happy to name them. it's been such a great involvement engagement, for six years business called Good Constructions, so when we first got introduced to Jolly and Jane, who the owners. They, doing at that stage, high-end renovations, on housing, one,$2 million for, up and down May the southern part of, Melbourne. And so they'd been given an opportunity to go into, start refurbishing some retirement living villages, which is a very different, way of their business from, 18 month project to a 10 week turnaround, lower and low skill. Anyway, they just wanted to explore it and work it out. So we sat down with'em. They got a client, they were able to build some, Early wins with it, but then all of a sudden it looked like it was gonna be a really good business opportunity. So we worked with them in the early stages to help them get to that first stage and then to say, this looks like it's got legs. how do we do that to the stage where, how do we drop the renovation part of the business and clear, that away landscaping side of the business. Let's clear that away. Let's really focus now on becoming. A retirement living specialist six, seven years later, the business has grown. in terms of size, eightfold, in terms

Aleyx:

Wow.

Andy Rooke:

and in terms of employees probably tenfold.

Aleyx:

Wow.

Andy Rooke:

and is now operating in, port Macquarie, Newcastle, Sydney, large sways of Melbourne. we'll go into Queensland, and potentially even to New Zealand in the next two to three years now, With what they knew. it would've, they probably could've, they may have got there, they may not have, but we were able to accelerate, hopefully their path through that by bringing some sort of, some more governance stuff, accountability, certainly some more strategic, focus for them. Helping them, just supporting them through, again, we talked about the doubts, the ups and downs of things. It hasn't all been smooth sailing and, and as you'd expect, but yeah, it giving them that nonjudgmental sanctuary every month to have a, two or three hours, four hours working on, their business.

Aleyx:

that's amazing results. What, for the listeners, what advice would you get? Because I'm sure a lot of people are gonna listen to this and think, oh, that sounds amazing. How do I do something like this? aside from working with you of course, and, but what, advice would you give to people to help them to come out of the weeds and think outside the box? if maybe they can't get an advisory board for whatever reason, like what can us, US founders do to start thinking differently?

Andy Rooke:

There's two parts to it. I think the first is, you've gotta embrace the mindset that I can't get there on my own. we all, I think see that as a bit of a knock or a dent on our ego or our pride. They think, oh, I'm not, I should be able to do this. I should be able, I shouldn't need help. I should be good enough to get through this. But the reality is none of us are, none of us as sole individuals can be successful, as a little single of me, but floating around and actually expand rapidly. We need to actually engage with other people, bring people into our confidence, and hopefully, be humble enough and vulnerable enough to say, look, I dunno this, I need help with this. They're the business owners that flourish and reach their full potential. I think it's a generalisation quicker and with less bumps, bruises, and scrapes. that's the first thing. The second thing is, I'd be willing to be held accountable for, have some plans. most people have got dreams. Most people have got a vision for what it'd be like, but they've been willing to write them down and commit to them and be willing to be held accountable to them in a, respectful way to you said you were gonna do this. You're now doing this. What's going on for you? this is what you really wanted. the distractions? How do we get rid of this? Then how do we get back on track? Accepting that’s again part of high human performance is getting the feedback, having being held accountable, to, someone or group of people, making some public commitments and then being able to sort of keep adjusting in pursuit of the dream.

Aleyx:

Accountability is massive, isn't it? Being able to, and what I find since I've started the business is having peers, friends also run businesses. That might be just a few steps ahead of, me and, having conversations, oh, what would you do? And this, and, back and forth. That, but accountability is huge as well. It's the same in fitness. if you have a fitness goal, the best way to get there is get a coach and tell'em your goals and have them send you. Why are you not at the gym? Where have you been? It does make a difference.

Andy Rooke:

It, it's anomaly where we look at every high performing, sports person, which is, they're usually most public, but I think you'd find most high performing, professions. The high performers and, down to a, much lower level would have some support network and coach. yet we feel, we feel in business for some reason that we, we can get by without that. Now, you look at every other, every high performer in business and. irrespective of whether I'm working with'em or not, but invariably they've got some support network and coach around them, mentoring mentor they're relying upon. So that's, again, if you acknowledge and embrace it, that's what high performers do. and you feel that and you're willing to replicate that, you've gotta a much success of doing it. The other one's the accountability one. That's interesting because I, every year I interview, and do a, wrap up with all the clients and get feedback. And the one thing that surprised me initially was that everyone values the accountability more than the fact that they actually thought when they were signing up for it.

Aleyx:

Okay.

Andy Rooke:

we all think our willpower is, is that thick where it's actually our willpower is only about, it's way for thin. We need the accountability, to, because to push through, all those periods of time, we go, oh, look, can get away with this because no one's watching.

Aleyx:

Yes.

Andy Rooke:

I gonna run a marathon, but I didn't write it down, didn't tell anyone. So I can push that to one side. Whereas if you a public pro proclamation that I'm gonna do this or this is what we're gonna do, and then you've got people holding your account, you, your ability to follow through and nail it is, Many, multiples higher.

Aleyx:

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'd love to just, go dig into, your personal life and in a bit more detail. That sounded a bit weird, but just in terms of. because I obviously we've spoken a few times and you've done some pretty interesting things. can you tell us about, some of your, travels and where you've been and what you've done, what, your hobbies are? Because it's, I think, yeah, it's, people wouldn't expect It,

Andy Rooke:

it's an interesting, and I don't, I haven't been able to nail where this comes from, but I see it in my son as well. so I've got a 26-year-old daughter and 20, almost 24-year-old son. And, and you're always looking at your kids. I know you've got kids, you're always looking, got what, which DNA, they are getting upon here sort of thing. And the good ones are always mine. The bad ones are obviously always my wife. but ever since I've, ever since I was quite young, I've always, pointing to push myself outta my comfort zone repeatedly, and that's gone to travel as well. and going to different places and seeing different things. at the age of, I finished uni in two days after I, three days after I finished uni back in the early eighties, I had a 1970 Hillman Hunter. old car cost me a couple hundred dollars and I headed off round Australia on my own, just to explore and see what was going on with the world. And, I had some, drove up and all the way through and ended up living and working on Lindeman Island, in the Whitsundays and managing all the bars up there. Then went across to Alice Springs and managed the new hotel opening and bars over there and things. And it's just, just that. I, I think that. Push to keep striving and striving to go to your comfort zone. what's around the next corner? What's going on? and to get back to the nubb of the question is, still there today. So I, been to and done photography in Iran, so I spent a couple of weeks in Iran, obviously, was in 2019 when the country, COVID and before it closed down. I have been to India a couple of times doing street photography, in India and just taking myself off to different places and just mixing with the locals and understanding and trying to connect with them and the photography is a, the absolute, for it. The photography is a bit of a tool I think that forces you to do that. Been to Oman. back in the days when I was living overseas, I traveled right out to the, the Syrian border in Turkey. just taking buses and things like that. traveled through Myanmar, when it was open, and in some pretty rough conditions. Traveled through LAgos, again before it was really touristy and things. So it's all those, there's probably a couple more. Dunno.

Aleyx:

What is it about those areas that, that, that attracts you? Is that, that you want to go and explore? there's some of those areas you'd imagine a lot of people, but, oh, I don't even wanna go there. what is it that, that draws you to those areas?

Andy Rooke:

I think it's also, conversation from dinner two weeks ago. I think it's also trying to see those people in places in, in, in their, I call it natural, but less diluted through the impacts of tourism and, western society to some extent, trying to, there's very few places, in the world you can probably go now and actually see, getting a feel or an encapsulation of other people's lives that isn't sort. Polluted or sold out to some way of in tourism or now infecting it. And that's what it's always been for me. I, I have no doubt you could go to parts of Africa and probably South America and get some of that still. I haven't done that. I. travels so far, but yeah, I, and, there's a, there's an element then of, winging it and making it up and, I've had very, I haven't had no major danger experience or life threatening experiences. There's a few close shaves, but yeah, and I, think that's the other thing. It's a bit of the, the adrenaline part about off the beaten track round the next corner. What am I gonna find? And that's where most of the rewards are, whether it's photography or anything else. It's, getting off the main path.

Aleyx:

And what is it about photography? Does it, does that help you connect with, the locals, in a way And, how have you felt that experience connecting with locals in those areas?

Andy Rooke:

look, it does. think photography is a bit like, you get. You get one or two good photos so you, the definition of a professional photo or photographer versus amateur is an amateur photographer takes a thousand photos and makes you sit through every single one. And a professional photographer takes a thousand photos and only shows you one photo and you go, wow, aren't they great? Whereas the reality is they're smart enough to know that the other 999 were garbage. But it's, I think it's of, it's the thrill of the trophy, getting that one great photo and say, Hey, I, from an artistic creative point of view, I captured that scene, that person, whatever. and it's a really great replication of it. Not for the kudos. I don't like showing my photos, but just for the fact that, all the bits and pieces of the learnings of photography all came together in that one photo. A bit like when you cook a meal, all the different ingredients, all married up beautifully. And look what I've got. so it's that. But I think the photography also can just be, can be an icebreaker. because I'd often find myself showing photos of home. Sitting in a, up near the, the Iraqi border, up, in a remote village, talking to old guys through an interpreter, showing'em photos of my home in Australia is still one of my most rewarding experiences. And then laughing and poking and us just not having any common language together, but laughing and poking at these photos and then me being able to take photos of them while they're laughing and in, in a natural state, is one of my cherished photos I have on my wall outside of my office sort of thing, because it was just. They are being normal humans, in, a different part of the world. And it's, And the photos are just, they're a trigger of a moment in time.

Aleyx:

Yeah, it'll help you remember. It'll take you back to that time. Yeah. And it's amazing how we can actually connect without even being able to speak the same language, being able to like, what, you did. So how do you, that, intriguing for me, how do you start that conversation, with locals that don't know the same language. Like how do you approach that?

Andy Rooke:

Never with a camera out front, because No, but you don't, because it, although a lot of, lot of the nationalities, in the subcontinent things actually like having their photos taken, worst thing you can do is walk around and start putting a lens in people's faces. forces you to engage with'em and actually genuinely get to their level and have a chat. And then if you're doing that, and then they, and they know you're, Doing some photos is maybe showing them some other photos of other people, or maybe even asking if you can take photos. because obviously in some cultures, Iran, you can't photograph females and nor should you be. And, even children's off, off limits in countries. then actually taking some photos and showing them, because they don't often get to maybe see photos of themselves and, their friends and then having a laugh about it and just building a relationship over that, that connection point. I just enjoy wandering around the slums of Mumbai, for example, or the fish markets and just having the laughter, watching the people and trying to engage with them to some extent without trying to impose yourself. And here's a quick photo. I've got what I need and I'm outta here.

Aleyx:

Yeah. Yeah. So really immersing yourself in their life and their world. Yeah. Yeah. what a lot of the, business owners, I've. Speaking to for this podcast because I'm try to look at trends and what I'm seeing and all the CEOs and leaders, one of the main things that keeps coming out is, the ability to have fun. Like many of them are just like, you've gotta have fun. I think one guy said to me, if you're not having fun, what you're doing, so how, do you see that? Like how do you bring fun into your daily life and do you see it as, being an important part of business as well?

Andy Rooke:

Look, it's an important part of business. It can, the word fun can often seem frivolous. and, and there's some really progressive companies or maybe, certainly off-center companies will have fun as a value. Which brilliant because it then frees people up to know that you can enjoy themselves. it's, a real challenge though, for business owners, to, work out what's fun and, what's the difference between fun, lack of performance or, lack of accountability and things. And, yeah, it's a really complex, question I suppose. And every culture will have it differently, but it. Culture and, and values very much leader led. So the leader goes in there in a stern and serious way every day, and the shadow they cast over the business is of that, call it negativity approach or negative approach, one's gonna leap over the leader and have fun and no one's gonna be. It just seems out of it, it is completely outta sync with the, that, the, it's not even a trickle down effect, but the, the impact the leader's creating. So it all starts with a leader. and you deal with organisations where the leader is, allowing themselves to have fun, then becomes permissible. so you, can't, codify it. you can, articulate it as a value, but it's all very much observable behaviour. From the leader who is either, by default giving permission to have fun and showing that it's okay to have fun or not. be my, unconsidered answer to it. I'll

Aleyx:

yeah. and of the ones that I've spoken to it is they, don't, they take themselves seriously, but not if that makes sense. they're not afraid to have a joke and have a laugh and for people to, challenge what, they say is, so they're all very open, I guess for me. How do you, Andy, have fun? What? How do you bring fun into your everyday?

Andy Rooke:

oh look, I, try to, there's some clients who appreciate it more than others. There’s you feel more comfortable making comments. I just got off a coaching session, this morning with a guy in New Zealand, who I've been working with for three or four years. We can have fun on from a coaching point of view, and we have a bit of fun about different things, people who they would see fun as not being professional and as being able to judge, those different ones. the more you get to know people, I think. People when you can have fun with them, usually lighten up and you get a bit, more out, it's a bit better. It's not quite so stiff and mented, but you've gotta earn that respect. And you've gotta, you've gotta grow that relationship do it, and particularly, when they're paying you, for a certain service and to come in and start having fun might not seem like a great, what they're expecting out of it.

Aleyx:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. it's been a really great conversation, Andy. I, we're coming towards the end. I always do a quick, fire round.

Andy Rooke:

okay.

Aleyx:

yeah. so you gotta, think quick. alright, so what was the last thing you asked Chad? GBT.

Andy Rooke:

The last thing I asked chatGPT P was to write me a, to summarise a, a webinar that I'm giving in a couple of weeks time in a con into a concise marketing pitch. for people who are interested about advisory boards and strategy, which I did just yesterday.

Aleyx:

Perfect. How did it go? Did it,

Andy Rooke:

I, the person who's, hosting it, I sent it to them last night, they said, yeah, that's better than what we had. They'd used chatGPT to you already to

Aleyx:

Yeah.

Andy Rooke:

something, and I just took it and just gave it a slightly different bent,

Aleyx:

Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. what time were you up this morning?

Andy Rooke:

six 30 this morning.

Aleyx:

Six,

Andy Rooke:

Yeah.

Aleyx:

eight. Yeah.

Andy Rooke:

between five 30 and six 30 in the.

Aleyx:

Yeah. I, you noticed from your form, you're an early riser. What's, the, first thing you do when you, get up early?

Andy Rooke:

look, try to, the first thing is obviously to, to, stand up. I'm not a coffee drinker or anything, but I, I try to regularly have exercise in my life. So a couple mornings, a life a week, I like to go for a run or go to the gym. And I'm a being a morning person. I like to get there down, at six o'clock in the morning. And that sort of. me the, the dopamine and adrenaline hit for the day.

Aleyx:

Brilliant. last thing that made you laugh out loud.

Andy Rooke:

I think. last thing I went to, I had a, dinner with, a whole lot of parents of, my son, a couple of weeks ago. And they're all farmers. and we're up in Newcastle at a big dinner and we were laughing about. how they used to be in the drought when, when my son was at school and now they've all got fat lambs that are$440 a head. And, they got to pick up the bill now, and we had 14 of us and we're taking over the restaurant laughing and throwing out all sorts of different ideas around about why farmers were actually really rich and wealthy, which is completely untrue. But, but it was funny because it was just, yeah, it was, we were just taking the piss out of the whole, the whole fact that, yeah, they're always seen as downtrodden and poor.

Aleyx:

yeah. Yeah. what's a habit or hack that's, saved you in the last year?

Andy Rooke:

A habit.

Aleyx:

Habits. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy Rooke:

That saved me in the last year. A habit. I think, one of, one of them I, write everything down. I have lots going on and I, keep a, a big long list of all sorts of things I've I don't think I've got ADHD, but lots of things flash through from my head, so I'm right. I've gotta write that down before I get, forget it. I've gotta write that down before I forget sayings. I, capture lots of sayings to share in coaching and, mentoring sessions. And so if I see one, I immediately copy and paste it into my phone, under my notes, so it I don't, I bookmark things, I'll never go back to them.

Aleyx:

Yeah. Yeah. Nice, That's good. You got'em in your phone, and I've got post-it notes everywhere.

Andy Rooke:

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And that's, I've played that game before and it's, yeah, it's crumbled.

Aleyx:

Yeah. Fantastic. the last question I've got for you, and I always like to do a, parting question for, the listeners, so almost a little gift to pass on. So if you could pass on one reminder to business owners that are listening something that you've lived or just learned that you would like to give to them, what would it be?

Andy Rooke:

you've gotta have a really clear vision for where you're going to take your people on a journey. it's gotta be really well communicated it's also, having one or two metrics in it so you know how you're making progress along that pathway. a, a vision. Without communication and strategy is hallucination and, hallucinations, aren't really great. planks to build a successful business on.

Aleyx:

That's a fantastic sentence to end on. Thank you so much, Andy. It's been a great conversation.

Andy Rooke:

for inviting me along to be part of it.

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Aleyx Ward

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