Pass The Mic - Nicole Qualls

Healing Through Therapy: Nicole Quals on Overcoming Trauma and Mental Health

In this episode of 'Give Her the Mic,' we sit down with the incredible Nicole Quals to discuss her journey as a licensed clinical therapist and her personal experiences with overcoming trauma. Nicole shares valuable insights on healing mental health issues, managing PTSD, and the importance of consistent therapy. We delve into reparenting ourselves, the significance of fun, and the necessity of movement in maintaining mental health. Nicole also tackles tough questions from our audience about handling toxic relationships, especially with parents. Tune in for an enlightening conversation filled with practical advice and heartfelt moments.

00:00 Welcome to Season Two
00:25 Meet Nicole Quals
00:46 Life with Four Boys
02:22 Travel and Fashion Tips
04:04 The Joy of Feeding People
05:33 Nicole's Journey to Becoming a Therapist
09:51 Understanding Trauma and Therapy
17:36 Breaking Generational Trauma
31:49 Practical Tips for Mental Health
34:24 Understanding and Gathering Information
34:39 The Importance of Daily Gratitude
35:08 Blessings and Daily Awareness
36:54 Testimonies and the Goodness of God
37:39 Prioritizing Health and Support
38:16 The Value of True Friendship
40:30 Dealing with Negative Self-Talk
43:45 Handling PTSD and Trauma
43:54 Cutting Off Toxic Parents
56:37 Generational Trauma and Capacity for Love
01:04:04 The Power of Therapy and Movement
01:10:12 Final Thoughts and Resources

Transcript

0:00

Hello everybody. Welcome to our podcast. Give her the mic. We are on season two and as you guys know, season two we are interviewing beautiful, strong, wonderful women that, um, amen have been through things in their lives, but also are. Flourishing in life. And we've gotten to see like so many different parts of also the women that we've interviewed so far, which is amazing. And today we are here with Nicole Quals. Hello. The beautiful, the talent. We've known her for a long time and we've seen her through a lot of seasons too. I was talking to Beckett, um, this morning on the way to football and I was like, guess who we're interviewing today? And he's like, I remember them. Remember that pool? Mm-hmm. Remember that pool? And I was like, you know, Nicole also has boys. She has four boys. Mm-hmm. Yes. How old are your boys, Nicole? Tell us real quick. Um, we have a blended family. We have turning 17, turning 14, turning 11 and turned eight in April. So just kind of stair stepping. Um, three years, but four boys wild times, four different personalities. Um, lots of sports. Oh yeah, I bet. Lots of sports. Lots of sports. Lots of like in how many different schools? Um, we have two in one school. We have one in middle school and then one in high school. Wow. So it's three different schools? Yep. Three different drop offs. Wow. Yeah. That's a lot of, well, two different because we have drivers drop, so. Oh, that's true. Yes. And that's a whole other, uh, that's a, are you gonna make it school by that bell? You know, like, you know the littles are getting there, but you don't know if the big one's gonna make it there because you see'em leaving at eight 12. You never know what they're doing. Seriously, for an eight 15 start. Yeah. Chase was supposed to drive back Beckett to football this morning for me, so I could like do what I needed to do. And he was supposed to leave and he was still in the shower. It's like there's no, they have no concept of like, hurry, quick, we gotta go. Do you one who does have concept of time or one who doesn't? Because that's how for sure. I feel like Chase does for sure. He does usually. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But at points like today, like if it's not what he has chosen to do, if that makes sense or like whatever, it's Of course he'll take his time a little bit more. 100%. I'm like, boys are just boys. They're so four boys. Four. Four boys. You are married? I am. Um, five years, right? In November. Yes. We love him. Yes. Good old Brandon. Y'all just went on a beautiful trip to We did. From what it looked like. Every time you go on trips, I literally. I don't even know if I've told you this, Kristen. I'm like screenshotting your stories. Especially you never tag your location obviously, but I try to see where you're at. So under cover I'm screenshot and then that's why I message you. I'm like, where are you today? So I can like figure it out because it's so cool and curated and like nobody's around you. I'm like, outfits that she wears, they're just so ready. She's ready. So it's, it is such a, and I do that on purpose. I really honestly want people to ask me privately because I'm really just, I'm waiting for the day that someone's like, here is my budget. Please plan me a vacation. That part. Oh yes. Oh yeah. Dying for it. I tell Brandon all the time, I'm like, I really should be a part-time travel agent. Like I so enjoy, well not even just a travel agent, but you should be like a luxury travel agent. Hundred percent. Mm-hmm. You need to be a luxury. Or you also could be like, let me pair some outfits. Yes. Lemme get the kids matching outfit. Yes, that's your name. Because you know that, you know, that's the thing. Like the coordination of the outfits is. Always the thing, you even tie Brandon into it now. It's great. I do. I see sometimes he has little swim trunks on. I'm like, oh, they're all matches. They do. They do. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Because when he and I went on this last trip, I was like, all right, these are my outfits. Here they are on the bed. I we need to, we need to pair up. Yeah. I think, but I think it's just beautiful and especially when you're in Europe, it's, it's just different because of the way that mm-hmm. There's an old style of dressing and I take it very seriously. Yeah. But I want someone to DM me in, say, Nicole, I'm going here and I research like everything. Yeah. You can tell from the food to what the towns look like and experiences. You have a lot of, yeah. Well, food's important y'all do. Y'all do own two restaurants. Yes. And it's important. Super, super duper important. And I think that we both love food for the same reason. Like Brandon really loves feeding people. I mean, that is why he does what he does. He loves feeding people. Mm-hmm. And I think there's so much beauty to that. On, on a very just easy level of the beauty of feeding people and how important that is to nourish our bodies and how it, you know, gets us through our day. And honestly, just see the world that we live in. People can't eat and can't afford to eat and Yeah, are starving. Yeah. So this, this beauty of feeding people and then obviously same with me and my family, and food being very important in our family too. So it just works out really well. But honestly, my favorite thing to do. On this earth is to eat with my husband. Mm-hmm. I love that love, love that. It really is. It is. Like, and I tell him like I, you know, I just look across from him and I'm like, this is literally my favorite thing to do with you. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of my IT community too though. Like when people are fed and it's together, it's like it's communion. It is. There's fellowship and that's why I love feeding people.'cause all my people are in the same place. Yes. And they're happy and they're talking and they're not on their phones and it's like, this is what I love. It's my favorite thing. Mm-hmm. It's really the only time I think that you can really, I mean, it's one of the easiest ways to really bring people together Yes. Is around food. Yes. So, so that goes back to Biblical times. Does, let's be honest. It does. It does any, see, I told you, I told you we just, we just skirt off around all the time. But Nicole is also a licensed clinical therapist. Did I say clinical social worker? Yeah, clinical social Worker Gen, generic. Generic Ward is a therapist, but I do have a master's in social work and a licensed clinical social worker, um, in the state of North Carolina since like 2011. So, wow. Tell us more about that. Like what made you actually wanna get into that? Because we've never no known why. I think that would be cool. This is probably one of the easiest and biggest like god moments in my life because I had no absolute, I had no idea or want to do this. My undergraduate degree is in art from ECU. Oh, it makes sense though. I could, that your house is very artsy. I could so. I'm working at a restaurant like most of us do in college. My mom passed when I was, she was diagnosed when I was a freshman. She died my sophomore year. Right. Wow. So I'm working in restaurant like everybody else is bartending at night, that type of thing. And I have this couple that comes in all the time and throughout the four years that I'm in college and when I graduate, they're like, why don't you come work for us? We have a mental health agency. They do community-based services. Okay. We think you'd be great. And I say, what? What do you mean? Yeah, well you're great with people. Like we just really think you'll be really good at this. And I'm like, how am I gonna be good at this? I know nothing about it. Yeah. And I start and I stay there and then I go back up to, I go to back home to Pennsylvania to work, um, for Child Protective Services. I do forensic interviewing and forensic investigation for that. Oh, that's cool. Um, get certified in that. Yeah. Um, very cool. Could not do it now. With children. It was, it was an okay job to have when I didn't understand what it was like to have children. Yeah, I could never, I was like very, I mean, I was right outta college when I did that. So very easy to investigate and separate and separate the amount of abuse that I investigated and saw. Looking back on it now, including child death, could 100% not handle it at all. As a, as a mother, I bet. Could not. Um, so I'm up there, I'm doing that, and I'm like, well, I'm gonna, you know, I really enjoy this. I think I'll go back to North Carolina and get my master's. Where were you living at then? Where'd you go to college? Um, I, I was, um, my family is from Fayette County, which is south of Pittsburgh. So I went back to Uniontown. Okay. And I worked for children. We call, we call it DSS here, it's children and family. Mm-hmm. Or children and youth there. So, went back, went back there, worked for two years, came back here, worked on my master's and basically have stayed in the field since. Okay. So I never. From the moment that I've graduated. So if you, yes, I, you know, it took me two years to get my master's and then license in 11, but I'd been working in the field since 2004. Mm-hmm. Okay. So total in this field, outside of my license between children and families, 20 plus years. Wow. I was about to say, me and Justin started days in 2004, so I know that time what it all comes back to. Yeah. Yes. Doing the Lord's work, thank goodness. Doing the Lord's work. Me and Chris always talk about that. Mm-hmm. The Lord's work. Mm-hmm. It's, um, yeah, so that's like that 100% I had, that is probably the, the biggest, like, wow, God was really looking out for me. Yeah. He was really, that was really his plan, because I had no, I was just like, alright, I'll do it. I was young, I was like, I'll try anything. Yeah. Who cares? Like, I kind of do wanna get a job. I kind of wanna, I wanna work a real, a real job, whatever that means. Um, and saying yes to that one thing. Has led me here today and it's, that's crazy. It's so wild because I had not in my life ever set out. There's, um, my, my dad's sister is in mental health, but outside of that, like, not really any real knowledge and understanding or ever thinking that was something I'd ever wanna go in. Yeah. I had no idea what I wanted to do in my life. Well, because who would not, and I'm not, I'm saying like, that is such a hard, I'm in therapy and I just, yeah. I, I listen and she is too, and we just like knowing the stuff. I just tell my therapist, I'm like, I'm always like, how are you? Because Yeah. I always feel like it's just like you're unloading her so much on them. Mm-hmm. And it's just so much capacity you have to have mentally, which is why I'm glad mm-hmm. We're talking about mental health today. Yeah. Because you have to have a very large capacity to be able to like, do what you do, you know what I mean? Mentally, you, your mental health does need to be in, in check. You have to make sure and you know, obviously. Hmm. Not all therapists are created equal, right? Mm-hmm. Like from a standpoint of, I really think that something was told to me that has sat with me for so long, which is you can only take your clients as far as you have healed. Mm mm That's good. So as a therapist, it's been very important for me to make sure that I am consistently making sure that I am really healing, but also that I'm, I'm learning and growing as a therapist, and I'm not like, well, I've been licensed since 2011. I've been in this field for 20 years, so clearly I know everything. Yeah. Because we, the field has changed so much, especially when it comes to trauma. Really? Yes. I mean, like, you hear it and you probably hear it sometimes and even more to like, you know, CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. Mm-hmm. Like that was huge for a while. And then trauma focused CBT. Okay. And what we know now, especially when we look at neuroscience and, and the brain and what we know, trauma, it really plays into a lot of the things that us as therapists knew. Like you and I are talking right now, we're using our, our executive brain, our frontal lobe. Mm-hmm. Like we're having a, a logical conversation. Mm-hmm. But when trauma fragments in the brain, that's where it sits. It's not sitting up here when you and I like this happened, it sucked. I'm hurt. I need to fix it. Mm-hmm. Like, yeah, we know that, but that's not where, it's not sitting here. It's sitting on in these weird parts of your brain. It's, yeah. So we know that now, and therapists is, al therapists I feel like, have always known that, that it, it, it's in different parts of the brain. It sits in the subconscious and it sits there for years and it just exacerbates over time if you don't deal with it. That's why traditional talk therapy doesn't work. And you both know that because of your use of different models like e mdr. Yeah. And you know, we're gonna get to that later, but we know that it's therapist now that trauma. First of all, it changes the brain. Um, second of all, it's not, you can't use cognitive therapy on it and you can't use just, so the longitudinal study of it is like you do cognitive therapy there. You're like, stop thinking like this. Okay. And then a year later, 10 years later, it's worse. Yeah. Um, it's so true though.'cause I was in therapy pretty much. My parents split when I was nine. So they had me in and out of therapy until I was like 15. And like it was no help. Like there was, it was no help. And when you're also actively going through trauma, you know, which all three of us have actively been through trauma while in therapy. Mm-hmm. If you're not in the right therapy, which is why for me, EMDR was so helpful. And I've told Kristen about EMDR, I really hope you get it one day'cause it's like so weird. But it works. It's the weirdest thing. It's, that was where we changed my, all the trauma models are. Yeah.'cause people are like, you're so different now. When you act so different, you respond so different. You talk so different, you train so different like when I'm doing stuff for my business. But it wasn't until I started that kind of therapy and did those sessions that things started kind of rewiring in the brain. It does, it does. So I think that some of the analogies that I use when I talk to people is a lot of these really great trauma models, like EMDR, like lifescript, like trauma resolution, energy therapy, or like, oh, I've never heard of that. Those are done by, uh, the Southeast Institute by, with Van and Jessica. They're phenomenal. I just finished up a decision therapy with them. Ooh. Um, I did like a six day training with them for decision, which is just phenomenal. It's based off of transactional analysis and um, gestalt therapy com. It kind of combines that. Um, but it's, it's along the same lines with EMDR, which like the, the adult self. The adult brain really just can't heal the child. You have to get back to that earlier scene. Mm-hmm. You have to get back to, you know that with EMDR, you have to get back to that early core memory. You know, you can call it early scene or early core memory. Yep. You know, the first or the worst, whatever it was. And that's where you process out because it's along those lines. And what you also know, and I, you know, Kristen, I know you're on your journey too, is that it's not necessarily the things that were done to you. Mm-hmm. It's the things that you told yourself. Oh, for sure. Mm-hmm. About yourself. Mm-hmm. The pacs that were made. Yes. So it's the stuff that you tell yourself about yourself, the lies that you tell yourself. You know, those are the things that like, or if we wanna talk about in the sense that the lies that the enemy whispers in our ear. I literally was about to say, that's when Satan really comes in. 100%. I mean, we're all believers and just 100% just Chis in church, this is your fault. This is why this is going on. You're unworthy. You need to fix it. Mm-hmm. You're unworthy. You're a piece of crap. Like, like all these interesting things, like you don't deserve it. You're not lovable, you're unlovable. Yeah. I think the unworthy one is a really great grab ball, but you can really drill that down. Mm-hmm. And I think that if you go back to you, you're with decision. It talks about your adaptive and surviving child takes you back there, but your free child and natural child EC decides out. Mm-hmm. I love that. So, and with E MDR R, it's, go back to that scene. And you're what? Processing until there's something in there, right? Mm-hmm. Is not negative anymore. Yep. Right? Yeah. And then you kind of overlay the decision or the positive, you know, the positive comment about yourself. Yeah. You overlay. So decision and EMDR are similar, but different, um, and they're both great models, but it's at the core of it, it's that the inner child needs to be healed. Mm-hmm. It's not the adult. Right. Because as an adult we can rationalize our trauma. Mm-hmm. We can talk through our trauma, but it doesn't really take away that whisper like you're unworthy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You're unlovable. Do better. Do better. Yeah. Do better be perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like all these, like these really interesting things that we tell ourselves in the midst of trauma as a child, because what's happening around us does not make sense. Mm-hmm. Which affects the decisions we make as an adult. Yes. With choosing partners, choosing relationships. 100%. Choosing scenes, like there's scenes now I look back on, I'm like, I would've never put my stuff in that scene. Yes. I would've dipped out so quick. But it's like, yeah. And it's, you know, there's all these things that are like, you know, it's okay to not be okay, but don't stay there. And like, yeah, I know you're an adult now, but yeah. Like you need to fix it. And it's like, it's really not that easy. Financially it's not that easy because these therapies, so you're talking E mdr r for me it was 200 bucks a pop, you know? And so a lot of these therapies too, which was why I'm so glad. I know in a minute Kristen's gonna start with some questions for you, and I know you've got notes, which I'm, I do so happy about. It's just put on talk in circles, but it's, it is not that. It's just. Underutilized with mental health. Like there's not enough. I think the help is actually there now, in my opinion. I can't wait to hear what you have to say. I feel like there's more therapies and stuff now, but it's the cost and it's the time. It's the cost. And then you have to remember like consistency. We all, so even though we all had traumatic events, we all had some pretty good supports. I think we can sit back and take like a look at it and say, you had a great dad, right? Yes. Yes. Right. You know, like you, you have these people that kind of were always around that even though stuff wasn't great. So that's really one of the reasons why I work with the population that I work with, which is at or under poverty level. Okay. And the people that I have, the eight to 12 to 14 therapists that work for me, they are all trained in high level trauma models. And I pay for that and I make sure they have that training because. In our field, especially with adder, sub poverty level population, it's like, you know, you get what you get. Yeah. You're on Medicaid, you're on Medicare, you can't afford this. Yeah. Yeah. You get, you get that therapist or whatever therapist you're getting in, you don't throw a fit about it. But I just have a such a different outlook because I feel like it is my calling my duty to make sure that the people that are in my building mm-hmm. Are so, so highly trained in trauma models so they can help people that have had generational trauma. That's generational bondage. Yeah. And we've all had that. Yeah. If you've had a parent that's hurt you more likely than not, that's generational trauma. A hundred percent generational bondage, whatever you wanna call it. And we've talked about that so many times. Yeah. I said that to my mom the other day. I said, me and you are fixing things that we didn't break. Yes. 100%. Literally. Yeah. You know? Yeah. That's it. But have carried. Yeah. And there's also half, there's also really, there's. This beauty in also breaking your own chains without the, I'm sorry. Yeah. I messed up. That was my fault. From the parent, from the person who hurt you or abused you in any way. So I think that's what's also great about these trauma models, EMDR and all these other ones that I've listed is it's based on the adaptiveness of the body. Right. It believes that we are adaptive and we can heal ourselves. So as a therapist, it's like a lot easier for me because I don't hold the answers. I don't hold the keys. Mm-hmm. You know that you did E MDR R. Mm-hmm. Your therapist didn't do anything. I mean, they did.'cause they performed the, they performed it on you, but they didn't give you tools. Yeah. They didn't tell you anything. Yeah. They didn't give you the sentence. They didn't give you the scene. Yeah. Everything that you did, the work that you did is inside you. Yeah. The keys are inside you. Mm-hmm. So then when you think about that from a faith level, from Jesus, like it's the belief that like we were made in God's image. Yeah. Right. So because we were made in God's image. Yes, we're broken in sin, but we also have healing within us. Yeah. Through the Holy Spirit. Mm-hmm. And through prayer. Amen. To be able to heal ourselves. So it's a beauty and not, I think that also people go into therapy thinking if that person would just apologize if that person would just get better. Oh yeah. I started like that and I was like, this is not the problem. No. You know, I'm the problem. Well, and, and in a bad way, but like, but like this is the problem you, it's the beauty of, and I think it gives you so much power too as a person who's survived trauma to be like, oh my God, it was all sitting inside me the whole time. Yep. That ability to heal, that ability to overcome has all, it's just been locked inside me. Yeah. And I think that there, because that also in itself tells you that you're not defective. Mm. Right. You're not broken. Mm-hmm. And someone needs to fix you. I think that's the. That's what I love about these models is it takes that like defectiveness of feeling like there is something because that's attached, that's attached to your worthiness as well. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm defective, I'm unworthy, I don't deserve mm-hmm. Because I'm like this. And then you go through these therapy models and you're like, oh my gosh. It's like me. I've had, yeah. I have been able to do this. I have, I have this sealant to secure my heart again. Yep. And that to me is like, you cannot, you can't put a dollar amount on that. Yeah. You just really can't. And I just, it, to me, it just really speaks to the grace of God and how much he loves us. Yeah. That he puts that inside us in places and Yeah. We do have to do the work to access it. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where the work is for us. Mm-hmm. So, and being able to facilitate that, you know, as a therapist is awesome because I don't have to fix you now. I use models. That put tool, they, they help you find the deepest tool in your tool belt mm-hmm. That you didn't even know you had. Yep. And that becomes your biggest tool, and you bring that to the front and maybe the ones that haven't served you, you stick those in the back of your tool belt. Mm-hmm. But then you just keep putting more stuff in there. Yep. Um, so yeah, that's kind of, that's, that's what I do. And that's, I think that's what I love doing it. And I, and I agree with you that there is a big, those of us who can afford to get this type of treatment can access it. Yeah. But what about the people who can't? Yeah. That's, that's what's really sad and unfortunate because like, you know, when you talk about EMDR, these different things, you know, to somebody that's like, okay, if I'm gonna spend$200, it's gonna be on food or gas or whatever. And it's like, I've been through those therapies, so I know. Like how much, I mean, it drastically changed and rewired my entire brain. Mm-hmm. Because like you said, it's, you think things are your fault, um, before you get healed, or you just feel, I felt like dirty. I felt like just like, you know, deeper than unworthy. Like, just like very, like, just like a shitty person all the time. Unless that's perform That's what I was gonna say. Like a piece of shit that's, that's the right, excuse me for being so like, but yeah, that is, I, I recognize that in you because I recognize that in, in myself. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're such a dirty piece of shit. Yeah. Like nobody will ever literally, so, um. I get that. I get that whisper. Yeah, I understand that. And I mean, growing up, like my mom was an alcoholic and so, you know, it just allowed the enemy to come in and be like, you know, your mom was shitty. Look at her life. Now look at you. And then after I had my daughter and I was super overweight, it was like, you know, you're never gonna look good again. You're not, you know. So that was before I really got that deep peeling that EMDR therapy. And then after my brain got rewired and I could actually like process things correctly too, because when you're not healed, you can't process things correctly. Like I couldn't process No, you it on the old neurotransmitters and neurological past in your brain that you always have. Yeah. And so I, I really hope that one day that it can be more available, agreed to for sure. People to be able to get, not just right, not just talking to them, but letting them unlock. I love that you said like unlock Yeah. You know, how God, who God created them to be. Because I also really feel like, and I know me and you have talked about this a lot, Kristen, like the enemy does everything he can to keep us from our purpose, for God's purpose. Hundred percent for us. And when you have all these traumas that are just piled on and piled on, and now we're in this social media mental health epidemic and you know, all of these different things that are allowing us to compare ourselves and feel like we're not good enough. Like if you don't have like, healing in the right kind of therapy, all those traumas are just gonna keep piling up and you're just gonna keep making these shitty decisions and mm-hmm. Keep being with a shitty partner. Yep. Keep being in shitty relationships and then you won't live relationships your purpose at all, because you're not where you're supposed to be. No. And I think too, what that does, it's not just on the level of like, it, that type of attack also makes you feel like you can't get in your God. Yeah. Like you're just like, for sure. You're like, no, like you just can't, you know, like you just, you can't, you don't have access anymore. Yeah. So it's not nec, I mean, it's definitely with your interpersonal relationships, but I think that when that negative talk and that stuff really starts really just hitting your brain and really just ruminating and just that's your ticker tape in your head the whole time. It starts to make you feel like you can't access God because you are too dirty, too terrible, too horrible. Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And then you get these weird relationships that you're in that aren't great. Yeah. And you don't feel worthy of their love too. So it's like all these things are coming from everywhere and it's really debilitating, I think, to, to people. Um, and it's, it's just really it, like my heart aches because we've all been there at some point in time. Um, but. Again, I think that it goes into that part too, that like you also know Chloe, that and you know Kristen as well, like there's only so far a therapist is gonna get you or you're gonna get yourself. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That last refinement, that consistent daily refinement, that lifelong refinement is directly between you and God. A hundred percent for sure. And if you ain't in it is not good. Yeah. Gotta stay right there. You do. And, and I think that therapy is really great to kind of brush off all that stuff and give you a clearer head to really be able to approach your calling, like you said, Kristen, but also like your relationship directly with God. Mm-hmm. Because you don't feel like you have to hide things and parts of yourself. Yeah. I mean we all know that he knows, which is hilarious that we try to do it anyway. But um, for me, I just think that therapy could be a great like introduction to really. Brushing that dust off your shoulders, and then the rest is like, you're gonna have to take God's hand and let him walk you through the rest. Yeah. And that's not a one time thing. It's a, it's a all the time thing. Um, my relationship with God and my walk back into faith is really interesting because I was raised Catholic, so That's right. You know, I have all these really weird, um, I have all this like religious trauma and because the Jesus I know now was not the Jesus that I grew up with, so once my mom died, it was very easy for me to kind of walk away from the church and be like, I don't want anything to do with you. God, if you did this to me, if you did this to me, yeah. Why would I ever. Trust that you love me. Why would I believe that you love me? And then you have that old, and, and this is just my personal experience of being Catholic, raised Catholic, Catholic school, Catholic, everything. So once something bad happens to you, it's almost like you're raised to think it's in relationship to something that you did. Right? Yeah. It's punishment like the, the old, the old Testament God that he punishes you when you do things wrong. Right. So, you know, I had a, a huge absence from the time my mom died. That was 2001 to, I mean, like 2015, 16, 17, of really just being out in the desert, just Roman gathering more negative things about myself, making bad decisions about, you know, in general mm-hmm. Feeling unworthy, um, feeling unlovable. Um, and then, you know, all that layered over to my first marriage and, and things of that sort too. So again, it's just like you said earlier, when you don't heal and I think that's someone's question. When you don't heal your trauma, you make decisions based off of your trauma, you make your decisions based off of how people treated you. Yep. You make your decisions based off of people who have hurt you. You find yourself just falling back into those types of patterns with people in different places and spaces. Yep. Um, and on the, the, the, the other end of that is if you've developed some sort of, you know, personality disorders because of the trauma or because of how you raised or, or because of having a parent with a personality disorder and things of that sort, you end up going through life hurting people mm-hmm. And yourself, put people and you, again, you're repeating the patterns. Mm-hmm. So it's all that generational trauma that you guys have talked about on the show, but the generational bondage that needs to be broken spiritually as well. Yeah. Um. And I think that, that, that's the easiest way to answer this question, I think outta what was it like number three, which is like, you know, why do they have it here?'cause you know, like I told you, whip out the notes. Yes. Yeah. Whip out the notes. Let's go. Um, why does consistent therapy matter for healing trauma and PTSD? So I think we answered that. Like, if you, if you don't, if you don't, the consequences are, are dire and truly any sort of symptoms or feelings or thoughts that you're having are only gonna get worse. They don't ever get better with time. I think that's also the really weird, um, thing that we're told, right. Like somehow consciously or unconsciously that like, if we just get into adulthood, like that stuff will just work itself out. Right? Right. Or we'll be so busy. Yeah. We won't have time. It'll, it'll just, it'll figure itself out or it won't be an issue anymore, or I won't feel hurt by it anymore. But what happens is, um. This is such a weird analogy that I use, but, um, like a foil ball, right. And it starts real small and then you put a piece of foil on it and a piece of foil on it and a piece of foil on it, and a and then by the time you're in adulthood, it's this big and you can't stuff it in a closet anymore. Yep. You can't hide it away. You can't stick it down in the deep depths of your pocket. It's there in the room with you all the time. Yeah. And that is just really something that I don't think we do a really good job of, is explaining that if these things aren't processed through, they will get worse. Mm-hmm. Your symptoms will get worse, your relationships will deteriorate. Um, I think that the easiest way to, the easiest thing that I tell people is like, you know what type of, um, parents you had when you have kids. Mm-hmm. And when you're in crisis with your kids or when you're tired or hungry or just have had a lot to do with the day and you just are not yourself, and you're parenting not yourself, that is a really great glimpse into how you were parented. Mm-hmm. Like, please be quiet, please do this. Like, like I just need my, like there's, there's ways to communicate those needs, but when you're in crisis, we usually don't. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I think in crisis is probably the best show of what type of parenting you had in crisis's or in general. That's good. Yeah. That's good. Um, or does that, does that type of crisis parenting bleed into your everyday parenting?'cause we're not perfect and, and I don't think any perfect. Any parent is. No. Um, I think the, the, I don't think any of our parents probably maybe have been in the generation, like ever heard our parents say they were sorry. Mm-hmm. They never apologize for their behavior. Mm-hmm. No. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's something I think us as parents now, we're like, if we do say or do something that we know just isn't right. Yeah. We go to our child to let them know what we're trying to stop quickly is our child internalizing and saying, there's something wrong with me because she or he is acting like that. Exactly. That. And we're, we, you know, we go back and we're like, no, it wasn't you. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It was mom, it was dad. Like that was so inappropriate. I shouldn't have reacted that way. Yeah. Yep. Um, a hundred percent. Very different. Yes. I handle it very different than the way my parents were. Yes. So, and we try, right. Because the last thing we want is we're trying to break those bonds. Right. So we're not pump, we're not like stamping their souls was something that was stamp on our soul. Exactly. Right. We're trying so hard not to do that. Yes. Yeah. And I think that's the really interesting thing about therapy and as you get older is understanding that. Yeah. So, good. Okay, so I know we have a couple questions Yes. From some of our viewers. So first I'm gonna read this first one. The first one, first one, Kristin, if you wanna read it for her, even though Nicole already knows it. How can I take care of my mental health when I feel like I have no control over what's happening? So, um, I, we were talking about this earlier, the most obvious way to do that. It is to take care of your basic needs first. So good. And I know that that sounds like, of course I do that you probably are not, when you're under duress, you're under stress. You are probably not eating, you're not sleeping, you're not drinking water, you're not taking that 30 minute walk that you need to de-stress. Um, I made a note like building Legos. I know that, that, or playing games, like little things like that get brushed under the rug. Yeah, for sure. When you're stressed out, especially when you don't have control, and there's always that little caveat of wanting to control. Right. Because the, the thing that we tell ourselves is that if we control everything, nothing bad, nothing bad will happen. Mm-hmm. Right. And especially when it comes to parenting and our children and our families, if we just keep it all perfect and we keep everything in its file folder or everything in the file box and they all just sit there and one, just, you know, two don't come out at the same time, if everything just stays the way it's supposed to be mm-hmm. Nothing bad will happen. And that, that's kind of stressful to think about. So that's where surrender comes in and. Yeah. It's surrendering to the situation. It's surrendering to your lack of control. There's, I think there's so much peace with that. Yeah. But in end it's really, it's surrendering to God. Um, I am a, I will surrender to God and then I wanna like pop an email and be like, Hey, God, did you get my surrender? Like, where are we with this? Like, how long are we doing this for? Hey, I'm tired. Yeah. Yeah. Like, are we, you got it right? Yeah. Like, I didn't get a reply, so I, you know, I laid this down, but I wanna pick it up. Yep. Do you still have it? Yeah. Um, and that is, that is when I told, that's a daily practice for me. Yes, for sure. That is a daily practice for me, because I want so bad to pick things up. Mm-hmm. Fix, fix. Mm-hmm. Fix and control and put them in an order that I think is appropriate, which totally undermines the bigness, the boldness, and the omnipotence of God. Right. Is thinking that like, I can do it better. Like, that's hilarious. But um. Really your basic needs. So basic needs being met. Make sure you're eating, make sure you're sleeping as much as you can, um, and, and really ask questions if there's, if there's specific situations that are causing stress. Ask as many questions as you need to ask to get as much information as you need to feel comfortable. I love understanding. Yes. Understanding is everything. Yes. So while I can't control the situation, maybe I can understand all points. Mm-hmm. That's good. Or maybe I can gather information that I need to, if, if and when I need to make a decision and it's presented to me, I can make an effective decision. Mm-hmm. Um, but really like daily surrendering and, and people talk a lot about gratitude and I think that it's like, you know, it's a, it's a word that potentially is overused in the internet and stuff like that. Oh, I'm that person. But it is important. It's wonderful. It's super, very important because. You cannot spend time worrying about things you, you can't control. And having the enemy steal your joy in the moment. From the good things, from the good things. If you're practicing a daily awareness of how good you have it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. So you can't really worry in the midst of saying, I'm so thankful that I woke up next to my husband today mm-hmm. Is hot as he and sweaty as he is sometimes I'm so happy mm-hmm. That I wake up next to him every single day and I get to do that. Yeah. I have that blessing in my life that before I put my feet on the ground, I know that there's someone behind me that is gonna have my back like every single day. That's a huge blessing from the moment moment, my feed, I have healthy kids. Mm-hmm. I have a business that allows me to work as much or as little as I need to, to, to really support my children and my husband in ways that I would not be able to and not have it. Right. Um, support friends, be with friends, spend time with them. Um. I don't know. I, I am consistently in awe of my blessings. Yeah. So when I sit in that and I sit in the, I can't believe God is so good to me with my sin. Mm-hmm. Like, I can't believe that he loves me the way he does. Yes. Girl. So when you do that, it's really hard to say, but hey God, like what if the bottom flaws out tomorrow? Yeah. Or what if this happens, or this happens, or this happens. Right. Do you see even in my body language? Even in my face, even in my voice, how that changes? Yeah. So when you're dealing with a lot of stress, surrender's important, but also just finding something, if it's one thing to focus on about how absolutely grateful you are, I love that because it will keep you grounded. And not worrying about tomorrow because we know like how many Bible verses are there about us worrying about things we can't control. Right? Yeah. And we still do it. Um, but yeah, I, I spend a lot of time, especially when, and, and I think you see it with anybody. I think you see it with a lot of people that you look from the outside and you're like, I cannot believe they're dealing with that. And they tell you, you know, they give you a testimony or they tell you, see, I told I would eventually cry. Um, they give you their testimony or they tell you about the goodness of God in the midst of that mm-hmm. Situation. Yeah. And you're like, what? Yeah, because I would be broken in that. Yeah. I would be angry. I would be frustrated. Yeah. I would have a major issue. I'd have some beef with God with that. And you have these people that sit and talk about the goodness and the, and. Their, their gratitude towards the God that we, that we know who loves us. Right? So I think in those situations when you are stressed, prioritize your health, prioritize your basic needs. So you need to get some sun go stand out in mm-hmm. The backyard, you know? Um, you don't need a bunch of people to support you in times that are, you know, you just need one good one. Yep. Mm-hmm. Amen. Because nine times outta 10, those people that you're running with, when stuff gets tough will, they'll scurry like cockroaches. You know, many people know me, but not many people know me. Yes, yes. And, and I have about three people that really know me, and that's okay. That's all you need. And, and I prefer it that way. They meet your needs. Well, they meet your needs. Yep. They're ride or die. Like I tell people all the time, I may not be the best like, everyday friend for you, but like, when shit hits the fan Yeah. They know it's me. Oh yeah. I've always told Justin, I'm like, I could literally call Nicole for middle of the night, anything in the middle of the night, and she'd be like, what do you need middle of the night? What? Like, you know, and yeah. I think that's, I'm such a great quality of this. I'm, I'm not a great everyday, like when life is really easy for you, friend. Not that I'm like a hater, but you don't need to be, you have your couple people too that are probably your three, you know, I feel like everybody has two or three Yeah. That are like there, you know what I mean? But to me, like I value myself as a friend to be the one that like, if it goes down my numbers, the when you pick it. Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. Because you know that like, I am, I, if I have to physically put you on my back, I'm, I'm getting you outta that. Oh, me too. I'm getting you out of it. It's the same. Yeah. You know that let's go. Like, it's just the way that, like, let's go. I don't, like, I'm not great with a day to day, but I'm like, I will never ever let you, I don't care if you're like bloody beaten and on your knees, like, I'm putting you on my back. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's like, that's the kind of friend I wanna be. Well, and that's Jesus. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's 100, a hundred percent Jesus. Yeah. That's what Jesus has called us to do, is to go after the one and to, you know, to. At the end of the day, like be that person. Yeah. So, yeah, I love those tips, experience. And you know that because when you have lived life experience, when you have lived life experience with death and trauma mm-hmm. And not great parents and family members with mental health issues, domestic violence and rape. Yeah. And things of that sort. There are just things that only you know. Yeah. Mm-hmm. There is a word, there is a sentence. There is a look that you're gonna give someone who's going through it. Yeah. And it is gonna break their heart in the best way because they're finally gonna think that somebody knows what it's like. She gets Yeah. She gets it. Yeah. She gets it. She gets it a hundred percent. Mm-hmm. And that's where our lived life experiences, that's where when we get bent outta shape of like, why has this happened to me? Or why am I carrying this cross? It is 100%. Because you are gonna be placed in front of somebody maybe five years, 10 years from now, that's gonna need you and only you. And you're gonna be the only person and they'll see Jesus through you. Most importantly, that's what it about. Yeah. I mean 100%. Okay. What is our second? I got another question. I another question. How do we turn off negative self talk? Yes. I laughed so hard when I saw this, not because it's not a great question, it's a fabulous question. Mm-hmm. Um, but because this is, um, this is literally where I get stuck. I get stuck here. Um, I've been stuck here probably I would say over the last, like I had to deal with some stuff, you know, with my ex-husband, um, a few years ago. Mm-hmm. And I've been a little bit stuck. Mm. Um, and I've had to, you know, talk with my therapist about it just being stuck back in that rumination like so wash, kind of all that stuff that I thought I had healed, that even, even through EMDR, even through, you know, all the different training models that I've learned and. Again, like these training models are taught to us by doing, we don't role play. We don't go in there and make up false scenarios. We process our trauma in these trainings with strangers. It's always a treat, you know, like, yes, there are other therapists, but it's like rapport, none. None now literally vomited on me. Vomit the trauma now. So, um, all these years of processing, learning these models, practicing these models, and I think that it was very surprising to me to see how quickly that negative self-talk, and it was very slow at first, and then it, it, it, which it always is, like a drip on a spigot and that it's full blast. And the answer is always gonna be the same, is to process where it came from. Hmm. That negative self-talk has been with you your whole life. Mm-hmm. It gets louder and it falls to the back. It gets louder and it falls to the back. Um, your, your dirty, your dirtiness, right? Mm-hmm. You've always heard it. It's always been in the back of your mind. Correct. How loud it is, is, is the difference for sure. And how debilitating it is, and then how that makes you make decisions. There's layers to that negative self-talk. So the answer is always process through it. Find out where or when in your childhood, in early scene that you told yourself that because of something that happened. And no, it's not a quick fix, but like you said, it's a rewiring because right now there's one of those things back there. You know, you put all the plugs in, what are they called? Strips? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, power strip, power strips. Right? So you have all these things plugged into one power strip in your brain and they need to be plugged in other places. Mm. Mm-hmm. After you did E-E-M-D-R, did your brain feel funky for a little bit? Oh my gosh, yes. I use the analogy of like jello setting. Like it, yeah, like liquid into solid. After I did it, it was, it was really wild. I was really tired too. Yes. So it's. Really that negative self-talk needs to be unplugged and it needs to be reprocessed and then put in other places. Mm-hmm. And, and that's what you, that's what you call the rewiring. I, I, the, the plugging is what I use as the analogy that I use because we know that, that we started with it, that trauma fragments in the brain and it, unless you get every little piece of glass up mm-hmm. It's always back there. Yeah. Yeah. It's just what situation is gonna come back in. Yeah. And if it's never processed, that negative self-talk, like we said, it then, you know, makes you make not great decisions where you end up hurting yourself or others. And then it just kind of snowballs. Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. So good. And I know the third one we kind of already talked about, right? I can't remember what, what was, what are some different ways to deal with PTSD? Yes, we did, for sure. Mm-hmm. We did. Let's, this is a long one. All right. We ready? Mm-hmm. Number four, how to deal with cutting off a toxic parent. Oh yeah. This is a good one when you have kids in dealing with the relationship separately together. For example, when the parent gives you a lot of anxiety from trauma. So I have a three part answer to this, so I'm gonna try to Yes. It's like church when they have three parts. Yes, yes, yes. This is my three part answer. So this is important. Um, and I think to start out with is I would never tell anybody what to do with their parents and their relationships because having lost a parent, I usually operate out of, it's better to have one than, it's not, not to that sense, but like, you know, try to do as much as you can on your end, first hundred percent to process your trauma in relation to them. And usually that licensee, that those negative effects that come from being around them, right? If you process this stuff and you do all this, you know, with EMDR, gosh, I can't think of what we call it. Um. Well, it's reprocessing then you're overlaying, right? You're doing your future templating is what we call it. Mm-hmm. So you're doing future templates. So in e mdr, r it's like you take that negative to a positive. That positive you overlay into, um, the future, right? You look at like your life on like a little timeline, and there's these dots, right? Mm-hmm. So we are here, you're living out to here. It's a negative, negative, negative, positive, and what you do is you throw that positive back there and kind of wash out that, but then you also positively overlay it. So the idea is that if you do come in contact with someone who makes you tell yourself you're dirty mm-hmm. You know you're not. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Or if you come across someone who makes you feel again, like you're unworthy. Mm-hmm. You know, you're not because you've done that future templating. Yeah. In decision therapy, it's a lot of the same thing. Um, because you have kind of. Red decided what you're gonna do, how you're gonna think, and how you're gonna behave Yeah. As a child, which again, then allows you to do that into adulthood. Um, so that, that's the, that's the answer of that is work on yourself, but that also comes with like, you're the problem, which you're not. Um, but if you have a parent who's actively working on their stuff, I think that the easiest way to acknowledge the anxiety that comes with them is to tell them the anxiety that comes with them if they're working on stuff and you're working on stuff, like you said, you mentioned your mother. Yeah. So you guys have an active line of communication. Oh yeah. We've been chatting. That's what I mean. But me and my mom do not. Yeah. Yes. And cannot. Yes. Yeah. And you have had to make that decision. Yeah. Yeah. Because out of self preservation, yes. There, while you can heal from the trauma they, that they have, you know, given you or kind of laid on you, it doesn't give them the right to continually hurt you. Right. So. Unfortunately the decision has to be made, which is why this is like I told you, like that three part answer, which is like, you kind of have to cut'em out sometimes. Yeah, yeah. And I hate to say that because it feels so, um, you know, then people are like, well, what if they die and you have all this and that? Well, I don't, I I didn't say cut them off and never process through stuff. Mm-hmm. You still have to process'cause that mm-hmm. That decision that you're making to cut them off comes with a lot of consequences. Oh, for sure. In the heart, in the future when they die. Like there are all these very interesting things and consequences that come with I need to protect. And I know people say protect my peace, but I mean it in like a legitimate way. Like, because someone's actually harming you, um, not in like an Instagram post kind of way. So you need to protect that. Mm-hmm. And protecting that comes with those consequences of like, okay, am I okay with never speaking to them again? Yep. Yeah. And I've, I've talked to my therapist about that many times and people don't. I, I think what you said is perfect. People look at it like, oh, you know, they're just cutting that person off and they have no idea what, what that person's been through to get to that point. Or like, for me it was like safety of my children. Yes. She tried to steal my son. Yes. Like there was a lot of things to where it was like I could deal with the trauma, I could deal with the neglect, I could deal with the abuse. But you're to break that bond so you don't wanna attach it to your kids. But when you have you children, it's just different. Y'all know that. And so, you know, it's like, how many chances was I supposed to give her when the same behavior was happening? Or, you know, like one of the last things she said to my husband is she was like, oh, you know, my daughter won't even talk to me now. You're just like a middleman. You know? And like to talk to my husband that way. Yeah. And to also disrespect him and just not happen, continue these behaviors. It's like, of course I've thought about. That, you know, that that is like my worst fear. Yes. When you guys, how am I gonna be? And I don't know. Yeah. But also I had to preserve myself and live. True. And if I would've continued our relationship, I probably done, would've killed myself. Yes. And so I hate. For people though that are out there, that are in those relationships with a parent. Mm-hmm. That is extremely toxic and dangerous and not safe for them or their kids, that they stay in that outta that fear when they could be in therapy processing it. Because if, I know for me, like therapy's non-negotiable, even now, I used to go every week, but now I go every month because I do need to talk to my therapist all the time about like, Hey, I feel like this about my mom, or I feel like this, you know, because those thoughts are, we're human, you know? Yeah. Mm-hmm. If she dies tomorrow. How am I gonna be? But I know I have Jesus by my side. He'll get me through. And when that relationship needs to be reconciled, it will be. But as long as that person has done the work, and I've been doing the work to try to mm-hmm. Get back, like Kristen knows she was on the phone with my mom a few months ago when I was trying to reconcile. There's been so many attempts, you know, but it, it is a really sticky situation because then you have people whose mothers have died, like your mom. And it's like, yeah. Like I think every, like, I want their relationship. Absolutely. But it's also, also now that I'm healed, this was a very skewed relationship that we had. I was the mother and she was the child. 100%. So it is really hard. I think the greatest indicator of future behavior is past, and that's what I always tell people, especially when they're talking about any sort of relationships. They either wanna stay in, they wanna leave, they wanna rectify, they don't, I always like invite them to not listen to the words so that they're coming outta their mouth and watch their actions. Mm-hmm. Because. Always, nine times outta 10, the actions and the words are not congruent, that part. So you have to watch the actions. And that was something that I had to learn because I was real easy to listen, listen and listen. And I'd be like, okay, I forgive you. And then the actions were like a slap in the face. Yeah. So when, when it comes to relationships, especially with parents, is greatest indicator of past or future behavior is past. So if they are still acting today, like they acted 10 years ago, 20 years ago, you are going to, they are going to make you feel, or you're gonna allow them to make you feel they're gonna treat you, however you wanna say it. They're gonna treat you the way they've always treated you, and you're gonna end up feeling like you always have, there's not enough therapy in the world because it's not just like you can process through what happened to you as a child, Chloe, but like, if she keeps hurting you today Oh yeah, right now you're gonna have to process that. That part. Yeah. Yeah. And it was, and it was affecting everything because even when. You know, I was even back to like, when I first moved to Greenville, went to college. You know, my mom actually got pregnant during that time because I told you she had a baby at 45. And so I was driving back and forth to Fayetteville. Then the baby got taken from her. So I was driving to Safe Haven to see the child with her. And so all this trauma, all this trauma, and then it just kept carrying over. Mm-hmm. And once I started really EMDR,'cause I did some EMDR work with my mom. Mm-hmm. I realized I had felt sorry for her and that's why I stayed in it with her because she's very manipulative and very much she will survive. She's a survivor. I mean, she grew up, her dad abused her. Yeah. My dad abused her physically, her dad abused her physically. So like I, I always felt bad for her, but I had to let go of like, I can't be her parent and I can't save her. I love her. But it took a lot of work. But yeah, I can see how it can look really savage, but it was like I had to be alive and me and Kristen talk about. Depression and stuff a lot, and like I could not stay mentally alive and well and have friendship. I mean, I literally am now getting to the place where like. I ha I've opened up more to friends, but I'm also very cut off from relationships. Like Kristen all the time is like, I have all these girlfriends and I'm like, I don't want any scared. You know what I mean? But it's like, that's also not healthy, but it's also like it's, that's your protective, I can't do that right now, but I wanna get to a place where I'm like, yeah, sure. Let's do a girl's trip, let's do this. But I physically to think about doing a girls trip with anybody outside of like four people us makes me wanna vomit because I mean, I don't really wanna do that either, honestly. But it's like, because you have these traumas though, that still hold on, no matter how much work you do, and it's. So hard to like, you know, do it, do it all really, because, well, why wouldn't other women manipulate you if the one who wasn't supposed to did it? Yes. Well, because my core self is very giving. I'm much like both of you. I would give the shirt off my back. What do you need? When can I do it? Let me fix it. Let me do, because I am a, most women are nurturers Yes. And lovers. And we wanna be there for each other. But there are people who, you know this more than anybody, Nicole.'cause you've been taking advantage of a lot. Yeah. Um, so of you, Kristen, like mm-hmm. People I wish I will, will take advantage of good people. And so yes, they will. But then it's like, look at what Jesus did. He knew they were sinners and he behind, behind the cross, behind, he got right up on the cross. But Jesus still did it. You know, he still, he still did, he still smiled at them and healed them and did all these things. So it's like the Jesus way too is not mm-hmm. The easy way. And I do hope one day me and my mom can reconcile, but I don't know what therapy will get me there, to be honest, because she won't do therapy. No, it's fine. She's doing great. So people who tend to hurt like that long term, I bet she did try to friend you on Facebook. Um, I'm not surprised. People who tend to hurt people like that for so long, it's, that's just the way they're always gonna, they're always gonna be like that. And they're always gonna find someone else who's gonna take your place. Yeah. Wired that way. And I think too, that it's really interesting if you look at it, um, there's a, for me and, and my spec, like my specific situation, it's kind of realizing that like, it wasn't just me. Um, because it feels like it's just you and it feels, not that you're special now because you don't feel very special, but like, it makes it, it's just so you, you, you centered takes the pressure off and then you're really, when you open up your eyes and you realize that this person consistently throughout their life to this day treats people like this, acts like this. That part, that part, to me, it allows you to kind of put it into perspective, but it also allows you to even do way more healing. Yes. Because it takes that like defectiveness, that like, like I either, like, I can't believe I let her do it to me again. He or she, I can't believe like I did this again, or like that, that really underlying thing, which is why can't they just love me the way I need to be loved? Mm-hmm. And then you're talking capacity. Mm-hmm. So when you allow yourself to see that it's not just you, that this is how they operate in their life, then you're talking about capacity. And then does your mother have the capacity to love you in a way that's meaningful to you? It doesn't sound like she does. No, no. She can't chase love herself. So you can, yeah. So you can love your, you can love your mom from afar. Yeah. You can love your parents from afar. Mm-hmm. You do not have to love them and allow them to hurt you. And again, especially because then what that puts us in, as we start chasing these people who don't have the capacity to provide a love for us, that's meaningful. Right. And we chase them for it. And we chase them for it, and we chase after it. And that is so detrimental to our sense of self. It's detrimental to our spirit. It always, oh yeah. Because I used to always be like, that person has such a great mom, or that person has this. But then like you said, with gratitude, it's like when you start going, yeah, but look at my stepmom. Look at the things I do. We all have these amazing things and I think it's so easy when we're in a bad place or a hard place to look at all the, the negatives, right. When it's like, no, like. All of us have qualities about us that other people wish they had, that they will never have or don't have. 100%. And so yeah, I love that. I love that you said that. And I think those are all really huge capacity's, huge capacity. So I think I'm there right now. Yes. And very sad when you in a relationship. Yes. When you start looking at capacity. Um, I think the easiest example I can use is my father. I love him. Um, he's just a traditional like Pennsylvania coal miner kind of guy. Right? Like Italian, like no feelings, no emotions, no nothing. So how I read that in childhood is very different than how I'm sure he meant it. Yeah. So when I did, um, I feel, what training was I in, I was in trauma resolution with Van up in Chapel Hill at Southeast. And um, we did this generational work and I was like, oh, this is, that's so cool. Such Well, yeah, but like you're talking about energy work. And I'm like, this is. This is like, hoo hoo, ha ha. Like, you know, weird stuff. Um, but once I can categorize it into the Holy Spirit, it was easy for me to accept. But, um, when I was processing, I got into a really interesting place when in the processing where I was, um, I was 100%, when I went to an early scene, it wasn't my early scene, it was my father's early scene with his father. Oh, wow. Mm. And I'm gonna cry. That's why I always said the Holy Spirit.'cause the Holy Spirit brought you there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I was able to feel what it was like for my father. It ate nine and to be, I cant imagine in his household, I never met his father. He died before I was born. I only kind of knew about him and what people would talk about him, but I didn't really know him. And it was such a, it was such a, it still is. That's why I get upset because I can still, I can tap into that feeling of feeling of him. Uh, as a child, and it allowed me to understand his capacity, but it also allowed me to love him in a way that I have never loved him before. While my father might not call me and tell me, I love you, you're wonderful, I'm proud, I can now call my dad and irritate the hell outta him and badger him and call him and tell him I love him, because that's important to me. Yeah. Because I need him to know that in spite of everything, I love him so much. Well, that shows that you're breaking generational trauma because you're giving him Yes. What he never got. Yeah. And I think that's really beautiful. Yeah. That's like the beauty. It's, that's the god's wonderful. So, and understanding my father's capacity, I was able to love him in a way that I never could. Now, if we're talking like partners places and things, like, that's a different'cause when you talk capacity in relationships and you talk capacity with a husband, a wife, and things like that, you know, it, it, it gets funky because. What if you are in a relationship with someone who doesn't have the capacity to love you because they have a lot of work to do, it becomes very interesting. It's easier because, you know, it's just my dad, but, um. To understand that people treat you the way they've always treated Everybody else is freeing. But it's also like, well, dang, like now I have to make a decision. Do I want that? If I want that? Yeah. And honestly, you may come to it where it's like, I can handle that now knowing that they don't have this, I can adjust my expectations. Mm-hmm. But if you're like, no, these are floor level expectations, I'm, it's not like my bar's up here. You just floor. This is basic expectations in a relationship and they can't meet that. Then you, you get to make a decision as to whether or not you wanna stay in that relationship. Right. Parent, you know, parent, child, whatever type of relationship you're, you're in that we're talking about, you get to make that decision. That's so good. I love that. Okay, last question to wrap it up. Let's see, where are we at right now? I think, I think we got them all. Did we do number five? Mm-hmm. Why does consistent therapy matter for healing? We already talked about that. Yeah, we did talk about that too. That's so good. Yeah. So I guess, woo. You know, we've talked about a lot. Is there anything, I know you had like. A couple resources or things you wanted to share? Yeah. Is there anything you wanted to share with our viewers before we end this? So I like, I like the book Getting Past Your Pass. That's really MDR focused and really like if you're really into, um, if you're really into the brain and how it works, and this is like a baseline read that I tell everybody about that all therapists usually do is the Body Keeps Score. Um, and that is a really great intro to EMDR when it first started, but really the, the neurology of, of trauma true and what it does so true, um, somaticizing, uh, what it does to your body, where it sits in your body. Um, everybody has their spot. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. My spot's like my chest. Mm-hmm. Like forever and always will be my chest when I did tremor resolution, even that works through chakras. It was always my heart chakras. So like it's all these different, it's a great book because it's, you read, I mean it's like, like a banger of a book, but it is so cool because there's something freeing to understanding that the way that you feel. Is not fake. Yeah. The way that you feel is the way that you're feeling. Love that. Like, it talks about window of tolerance, which I think is really important. Mm-hmm. You know, that like, uh, we're sitting in our window of tolerance, we're kind of in the middle, right. We go into crisis, we either dissociate or we become hypervigilant. Mm-hmm. So we don't feel it's like a light switch going off, or we feel everything at all at once. And we all have that way of, of kind of processing through or, or dealing with, um, dealing with our trauma or dealing with crisis. So it's, it's really neat insight as to into your body, but getting past your past is 100%. That's all EMDR. And it's a really nice intro into Okay. Kind of how to work for that. And I think that, um, you know, play more tap back into, you know, childhood. I, we, my kids and I go on night rides on our bike and every single night that I do it, I have that moment of being like, oh my gosh. I remember this. Yeah, I bet it was the best. Yeah, the best really bike game. Yeah. Oh yeah. I never got off my bike. Oh, like the best, right? Yeah. Legos like weird. I mean, I am like the master builder in my house. Like that said like everybody has stand on business on that. Like I'm a master builder. I love that. Um, I taught the kids how to play like this dice game, my grandma Tommy. So it's like these little things that as adults we don't do. We're like son. Yeah. Yes. Because we're like work, provide work, provide work, provide work, provide work, provide whether you work a job or you're a full-time stay-at-home mom, which is like the hardest job in the world. Um, we're just geared and told as adults that we can't access that part of ourselves. Yeah. And I think we have trouble accessing that part of ourselves when we do have trauma. But, so I try to play as much as I, as as much as I can during the day. Like I try to find that innocence, that natural child inside me, love that just to kind of like feed it and flourish it. I love that. Because that's where your healing is. That's true. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. When my parents split when I was nine, I really just wasn't allowed to have fun. I had to grow up pretty quick. Yeah. So that was like the first thing I worked on in therapy was learning what fun even means, because I had no, I never had fun. Like all the things y'all are saying, I never did those things. Yeah. You had safety. You had, like, I had, is this gonna hurt me? I had to, yeah. I had to take care of my mom and my sister. Yeah. And so, um, I had to be like an adult at a really young age. So like, I still, Kristen knows this, like, I have a lot of trouble having fun, like doing things that are fun. Yeah. Like off the agenda, having fun is very abnormal for me. Mm-hmm. But I know like. How important that is for people's souls. Yeah. So I love that you said that because I think yeah, like fun is like, you know, it taps into calming you down Oh yeah. And giving you endorphins, giving you dopamine floods mm-hmm. And stuff like that. Mm-hmm. You know, you can't just get dopamine from sex and things like that. Yeah. And so, I mean, you know, or do doom scrolling or whatever, it's Right. So, yeah. I love that. Okay, so those two books, anything else you wanna leave them with? Like last minute? Do not underestimate the power of moving your body. Mm. When it comes to depression. Mm-hmm. Yes. When it comes to mood. Mm-hmm. Um, if you, I have to move on my arm. Yes. Yes. If you've already, if you've already taken care of your basic knees, like you've drank some water, you've eaten some food, like, but you still just feel off, like, go take a 20 minute, go take a 20 minute walk. Go take a 10 minute walk, go take a five minute walk, go stand directly in the sun and let the sun hit your face. Mm-hmm. Movement is so powerful. We've, you guys know as nurses, you see the studies, the, the studies out there in relation to exercise and uh, versus antidepressants mm-hmm. Are apples and oranges. I'm not, I don't wanna get up here and say like, oh, don't ever be on antidepressants and don't do things like that. You do what you gotta do, do what you gotta do. But the fact that neither of us are on antidepressants is pretty freaking significant. It's wild. Honestly. It's wild. And it's okay. We move a lot, but we move a, I could use a little Yeah. And they're, we do, we have, we rest, they do serve a purpose, but for me as a therapist, obviously, I don't believe that they're the one shot thing to make you feel better. They're not gonna fix things, they're not going to unplug your brain. They're not gonna rewire your brain. Like you said, they're gonna kind of keep it like this, but mm-hmm. The work that needs to be done is on the inside and it's done by you and a really well trained, um, therapist. Yeah. And you will have outcomes that are well. Documented that are better over taking a pill for the next 10 years. Yeah. Do the work, for sure. Do the work for the next, you know, five years or however long. Like you said, like, I think everybody freaks out about being in therapy for the rest of your life, but is it, is it really that bad to check in once a month? Yeah. How don't you feel great? Oh, I great after. Great. Yeah. I think it's really nice to go into someplace and say, Hey, I, I handled something like this. Was that right? Yeah. I felt a little off about this. Was that right? And not that you're looking for them to say that you're right, but you're looking for someone to hold you accountable. Yeah. In how you act.'cause the only person you, the only thing you can control are the, are yourself, your emotions and the way you react to things. Right. That's like when it's all said and done, that's it. Right. And let's be real like your best friend. Like even if she's wrong, unless it's putting her or her kids at risk, I'm never gonna tell her she's wrong because she's my best friend. Yeah. And then with my husband, I'm not gonna listen to him. And so between my best friends and my husband, yeah. I need a therapist that I can be like, Hey, this is what's going on. Why I feel this way. Did I handle this right? And she's gonna be like, well, did you make a plan for that? And I'm be like, well, no. Like I didn't. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so it's like, yeah, having that therapist. But you know, I really do pray one day, like we talked about in the beginning, that there is more access and funds and mm-hmm. Stuff out there for people to be able to get the intensive kind of work therapy to rewire. I mean, there's still people who think that like. I, there is something wrong with you. Oh, for sure. And that's why you have to go to therapy. I'm sure you feel that way. A lot of times, you know, it doesn't matter how many affirmations you give yourself, like, oh, I know I need therapy. I would be in therapy today if I could, you know, like feeling, like, feeling like something's wrong with you. Definitely. Like I felt, well feel like that some, I'm like, why am I like this? But I'm like, okay, Chloe, like this is why you're like this. You're having an off day. You need to go unplug for a minute with your ex to do this. Like Yeah, there's certain, for sure, for sure. Yeah. And I, and I just like the message we send to people is like, you have to be so. Like it has something so terribly wrong has to be with you, for you to be into the be in therapy. And I just think like, yeah, it's so not true. Yeah. Don't even look at it like that. No. Just look at it as someone you can bounce ideas off of. Yes. I mean, that's literally what a lot of therapies kind of bouncing ideas that you have in your head that you just need someone to kind of say, Ooh, maybe not the best way to handle that. Yeah. Yeah. Or have you tried thinking about it this way? Yeah. Or like, you know, or it's, it is great. I mean, good therapy is not just going in and them saying, I agree with you. I agree with you. I agree with you. You know, good therapy is like, I don't think you handled that well. Right. Let's look at, let's look at what's going on. Let's look at why you made that decision. Yeah. Let's break that, that down. And then when y'all pull out the notes and it's like, well, last time we talked about this, let's loop back around to how you handled this situation. Yeah. It's like, oh, I didn't wanna talk about that. She's like. No, let's talk about how that went. It's like, and you're like, no thank went really bad also. Yeah. That's the great thing about all these trauma, trauma models though, is like those of us who are logical thinkers who try to logically think our way out of everything. You can't hide from e mdr R. You can't hide from decision. You can't hide from life script or trauma resolution, any of these really in-depth trauma models. That puts you back at early scenes in childhood. You try to talk yourself around it and then you find yourself in the middle of it. And it's really, really interesting. I think I experienced that because I'm such a logical talker. Like, and they're like, so how did that make you feel? I'm like, and I'll answer with a logical statement. I will not give a feeling. I mean, it takes a lot, but then, then when I get there, it's like, whew, your girl is, yeah, you can release it. Your girl is crying. Yeah, your girl is in it. Your girl has the emotion. So, um, that's what I think is also really, um, great about these trauma models is that it does not allow you to, um. Use your protective measures that you've avoided. That's, yeah. Put the walls down because you need, you know, especially if you're, if your earlier messages are don't, don't feel, or that your emotions are too big, yeah. Um, you're not gonna do it. So these models just, they just man, they like, they backdoor you, you know, you've done'em. Yeah. They really Yeah. Backdoor you. So good. Okay. All right. Well thank you for being here. You, it was awesome. Thank you. Ing me. This was great. So informative. You know, just really, she's so smart to so much knowledge. Yeah. Yeah. Just so much knowledge. And I think that the women listening are gonna really feel a sense of just peace and knowing that, you know, there are two, there's therapists out there that look like her. Yes. And that are, you know what I mean? Yeah. That are, you know, I don't know. There's, I feel like this misconstrued way of how therapists are and like our therapist, her name is Angel and she is an angel, really is an angel. Um, and so we just thank you for your time. Thank you. Resources you love. You're amazing. We love you so much. Appreciate. And we'll see you guys next time. Bye y'all. Bye bye.