The Truth About Narcissistic Abuse and How to Break Free with Nathan Segal

In this episode, I sit down with Nathan Segal for a raw and deeply personal conversation about trauma, control, and what it really takes to break free from toxic patterns.

Nathan shares his journey through years of navigating narcissistic abuse, and the turning point that led him to reclaim his life, his voice, and his sense of self.

We talk about boundaries, responsibility, and the courage it takes to face painful truths so you can finally move forward.

Official Brightside Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1QnOBVBM8NRC9nFtxcPEpd?si=uGOTwlqyTRSqggcMCJhzSQ

The Rethreadery-Sustainable Style: therethreadery.com-Use Code BRIGHTSIDE for 15% Off!

IG: @the_rethreadery

Haven on Adullam Lake Retreat: havenonadullamlake.com-Use code LITTLEDAN for 10% Off!

IG: @haven_adullam_lake

The Library of Daniel Bradley: Patreon.com/daniels666time

Braving the Brightside Hub: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2498205

New episodes every Friday at 2 pm on all major podcast platforms. Interested in being a guest or perhaps just wanna chat and share opinions or concerns? Email me at Bravingthebrightside@gmail.com or slide into the dm's as the kid's say @braving_thebrightside

Appreciate yous.

Love,

Dan

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Sure. What uh when you think of the phrase braving the bright side, what does that mean to you? Braving the bright side? Yeah, I mean that's the name of the podcast you're on right now.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

I don't know. I don't have an answer.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

There are wounds in life that don't leave burrs. The kind that come from manipulation, control, from being taught to doubt your own instincts until you no longer trust yourself. And sometimes the hardest part of healing isn't just surviving what hurt you. It's realizing how much of yourself you had to abandon just to make it through. But there comes a point where survival is no longer enough. Where the only path forward is honesty, boundaries, responsibility, and the courage to face pain you've spent years trying to outrun. My name's Dan Bradley, and this is Braving the Bright Side. Hello Brightsiders. Boy, howdy. It is a beautiful day here in Philly. Um we've officially gone from 40 degrees to 80 degrees overnight, pretty much. Because apparently spring no longer exists. There is no middle ground anymore. Anywhere. Uh it's insanity. It's crazy. But you know what? I'm not gonna complain. 80 degrees is nice. Enough about the weather talk. Uh I've got some exciting news. Um first up, the Phillies are still terrible. I'm not sure if that speaks to anybody out there. Just putting my heartbreak into the microphone there for you. For you to feel it and hear it. Uh, but that's not the exciting news. Um I do have exciting news, and I know the last thing we all need is more news constantly threatening us, but I've got some incredible guests lined up over the next few months that I genuinely cannot wait for you guys to hear. Uh some really great conversations coming up. We have the likes of one John Hopkins, or Hoppy, as he's affectionately known, uh, author and CEO of Dying to Live on Purpose, where we dive into the topic of mortality, why so many people avoid talking about it, and how embracing it can actually help you live with more urgency, purpose, and less regret. We've also got Kip Grange, who shares his battle with addiction and how he turned that struggle into the foundation of Sonder Mountain Apparel, building a brand rooted in resilience, identity, and purpose. Also, you got coming up is Blash Marlov, whose story took him from serving in the Slovenian military to the US Army, to eventually founding his own mental health clinic. Uh just genuinely amazing human beings with genuinely amazing, powerful stories that um I think are gonna hit uh as the kids say. And trust me, these are conversations that you're not gonna want to miss. I'm super excited and honored to have them on the show. Alright, after all those little updates. Let me check actually real quick. Yep, Tillys are still terrible. Um let's jump into the next segment, shall we? Uh, because the world gives us enough doom and gloom. This is gonna be your bi-weekly reminder that not everything is on fire. Uh while chaos grabs headlines, good people and good things are still happening every single day out there, and it's important for us to take notice. So, with that being said, it's time for the good news segment. Alrighty, first up, uh, number one, I think I'm saying this right. Macaul's macalls? I think I'm saying that right. Macaws. I think they're birds. Uh McCall's returned to Rio after 200 years. In a massive conservation win, blue and yellow macalls, I feel like I'm saying that wrong, have returned to Rio de Janeiro after being absent for nearly 200 years. Thanks to re-introduction efforts, these beautiful birds, they are birds, I was right, are flying over the city once again, proving nature can bounce back when people actually give a damn. Number two, scientists turn waste into clean fuel. Boy howdy. Researchers have found a way to convert old battery acid and plastic waste into clean hydrogen fuel. So, in other words, humanity may have figured out how to turn some of our garbage into actual energy, which is the most efficient recycling has ever sounded. Uh number three, dying man's final wish was to feed his nurses. A hospice patient's final wish was to thank the nurses caring for him by buying them one last meal. A local restaurant owner stepped up, helped make it happen, and fulfilled that wish before he passed. It's, you know, just an incredibly human moment all around. Number four, sheltered dog hiking program boosts adoptions. An animal shelter started letting volunteers take dogs on hikes and adventures outside the shelter. The result? Happier dogs, more visibility, and way more adoptions. Turns out dog market themselves pretty well when people see them frolicking in the nature, which absolutely is true. Number five, Chicago students get library access automatically. Chicago public schools converted all student IDs into public library cards, instantly giving thousands of students easier access to books, educational tools, and community resources. A simple idea with a huge, huge impact. Number six, uh lemurs want to use tech with humans. In a bizarre but wholesome study, researchers found lemurs were more interested in using interactive technology when humans were involved than when left alone. Which apparently means lemurs may not just tolerate us, they may actually want to hang out and do activities together. I mean, that's a feel-good story, but it's also just adorable. Number seven, 91-year-old firefighter honored for 70 years of service. A Pennsylvania firefighter was honored this week for 70 years of service at the age of 91. Seven decades of showing up when people needed help. Number eight, first U.S. pollinator district created. A Colorado community became the first official pollinator district in the United States, dedicating land and resources to protecting bees, butterflies, and other pollinators. Which may sound small until you remember that those little guys are responsible for a huge portion of the food we eat. And there you have it. Good people and good things are happening out there, despite what everybody else may say or show you. All right, let's switch gears and let's talk about our upcoming guest. Today's guest is someone deeply passionate about helping people recognize manipulation, reclaim their autonomy, and free themselves from the traps of narcissistic and controlling relationships. His journey to this mission comes from lived experience through years of personal struggle, painful realizations, and the work of rebuilding his life from the ground up. This is a powerful conversation about trauma, boundaries, responsibility, and what it takes to break patterns that keep people stuck. Here's my conversation with Nathan Siegel. Today's guest is Nathan Siegel, someone who spent over 20 years writing, teaching, and helping people step into authority, but also someone who's lived through and unpacked some very real psychological battles. From publishing over a thousand articles to breaking down the patterns of narcissistic abuse and manipulation, Nathan brings a perspective that's both practical and deeply personal. This isn't just a conversation about becoming an expert. It's about understanding why people stay stuck, what it actually takes to break out of that and step into something bigger. Nathan, welcome to Braving the Bright Side. How are you, man? I'm good. Nice to see you again. Yeah, it's good to see you too. Um how's uh you're in Canada? Where no, no, you're in Mexico right now, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:34

I'm in Mexico and I just uh experienced a major milestone uh last week. Yeah, what was that? I am now a permanent resident of Mexico. Of Mexico, yeah. Congratulations. I'd show you the card, but I don't want to, you know, it's uh one of those privacy things. But no, it's it's yeah, no, I believe you four years of what they call a temporary residency. Now I'm permanent resident. A year from now I'm gonna go for citizenship. Wow, that's incredible, man. Congratulations. Thank you so much. I think when I first talked to you, you were in Canada, right? Uh nope, I was here. I've been here for the last 12 years. I don't know where the hell I got Canada from then.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

Because I am from Canada. Okay, well, there we go. All right, well, that makes you feel better. Well, um, let's jump into it. So, you know, after speaking to you, you spent me, you sent me a bunch of your stuff, your writings, and it's fascinating. It's um scary at times, um in terms of unearthing stuff and and really kind of digging in and seeing uh not just your personal story, but also just everything else that that you've been studying and that you've kind of specialized in. So um I don't want to waste any more time, so I just want to jump right in so you know the people listening can get to know you and kind of um see what you're all about, which is I think I'm really, really excited for everyone to get to know you. Um so you've you've written about both becoming an authority and breaking free from narcissistic dynamics. What's the uh what's the connection between those two for you?

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Well, geez, that's a good question. Um it part of breaking free of narcissistic abuse has to do with becoming your own authority. And it but in order to do that, my my direct experience is uh taking ownership for your life. And one of the most valuable lessons I got came from a good buddy of mine in Australia. Give me royal shit one day, and he was and he was right, but he said to me, your number one problem is uh you're not taking 100% responsibility for your life. And you're still and you're coming from a victim mindset, which really hurt to hear that, but it was, and I mean, part of that is not necessarily to do with narcissism, it has to do with growing up in a Jewish family. And Jewish families are rife with the victim mindset, you know, largely to do with the Second World War and our history before that. Jewish people are notorious for being the scapegoats for other people in the world. And a realization I had a number of years ago, which had been working on breaking for a very long time, is I knew I was suffering from the victim mindset. And I also knew that if I didn't break it, I would run the risk of becoming the perpetrator. And that's it the two go together because if you don't deal with one, sooner and later the other one will kick in. And I was determined not to let that happen. But then when my friend uh told me about the lesson of 100% responsibility, he uh spoke to me about you know, taking responsibility means that you're responsible for everything in your life, including all your shitty decisions, all your major mistakes, all these problems. And I remember going, oh shit. Yeah. But I I got it and I really started working with it. And then at one point, my friend, his name is Rick Schnabel. We were on a call one day, and he said to me, You you got this, you understand. He said, I'd like to interview you about this. And I said, Okay, sure. When? He said, How about right now? So he did uh an interview on that. But a major key to recovering from the narcissistic abuse problem is taking 100% responsibility for your life.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

And that means no blaming, no excuses, none of that stuff, owning your part. I mean, you can't be 100% responsible for everything. You're not responsible for the other person's uh behavior, but you are responsible for what got you there in the first place, conscious or unconscious. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think that's yeah, it's something a lot of people don't want to hear.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, that's something that I didn't want to hear for the longest time. Um, I was really good at blaming other people and other things and literally anything. I could go, well, you know, I'm defaulting on my taxes. Well, the squirrel ran across the wire and knocked out my internet. So what am I supposed to do? You know, like I I would find anything to kind of avoid responsibility. And, you know, still to this day, there's a lot of ego, especially like my male ego here, that um I have to kind of remind myself to take a step back, take a breath, and you know, accepting responsibility for my actions that have led to any kind of certain situation I may be in.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

It's not um just for men, it's women as well. And uh I mean it's straight across the board, this this issue. And it's uh extremely common now. I'm not really sure why, but there's an enormous victim culture going on, and and the and what I'm seeing, and I don't know if it's always been there or it's just because of the media. But what I'm seeing is an enormous rise in in narcissism. It seems to be getting worse.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

Yeah, I'd agree with that sentiment. You know, well, it's kind of hard. You I don't know, you can dig into a lot, I feel like so many different areas of our society at this moment in time, but um, it just seems like within the past, from what I noticed, the past 10 years, maybe a little bit less, that narcissism has been almost become celebrated. It's almost a badge of honor. It's and the lack of taking any kind of responsibility is you know celebrated in an obnoxious way. Um whether it be on social media, whether it be on TV and the media, you know, um it's almost a way of life in a weird way. And I yeah, I have my thoughts and opinions as to what have could have helped attribute that or surge. Um social media. Social media is a big one, that's for sure. Social media is a big one.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

I would I would have to say so, yeah. I mean, and there have been other people who have had a a similar theory about it. Social media, and um, there's an awful lot of preening going on, and I I find it rather nauseating to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

I'm sure you do, given your line of work right now. Um, yeah. Well, let's let's get into how you found your way to what you do now. Um let's talk about your own personal turning point because that plays a big part of of the path that you've been on um and and your journey right now. So speak to the audience now. Was there a specific moment in your life where you realized something here isn't right? I'm stuck in a pattern. Speak to um, you know, where you come from.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Uh that happened when I was 19. And at that time I wound up in a cult, uh, Christian cult. My parents got me out of it, but uh but I knew there was something seriously wrong in my family. I knew that what was going on was not normal. And I didn't know what to do about it. It didn't have any reference points. And I made the decision, like uh as a result of the cult experience, and I I wound up on the lecture circuit in Calgary for a while. So I was talking about cults and mind control, which as it turns out was uh extremely helpful when the pandemic showed up because I knew what was happening, which made me about as popular as a skunk in many circles, but uh I also wound up with some good friends as well. But um, but that's when I knew something was wrong, but I didn't know where what it was. It wasn't until many years later I was talking with a good friend of mine in Montreal. His name is Mike Rockfeld, he runs Citizens Information Center, which is all about helping people, uh families to do with cult groups and getting out of them. And he on a call one day he said to me, I know why you were susceptible to being in a cult. I'm going, Really? Why? He said, Because you were in one already. You grew up in one and your parents were cult leaders. And when he said that, it was like, you know, the proverbial light over the head. That's a hell of a statement to throw out there. Yeah, and I got it, and I went, oh shit, another one of those oh shit moments. But it was like that, and I just went, oh God. I I got it, but I didn't fully understand what he said to me until about a year and some ago. And that was when I was uh sitting in this one apartment in Mexico, and I thought, I'm suffering a hell of a lot to do with the abuse of my family. I and I made the decision, I'm going to do anything and everything to break all the um psychological uh ties that my family has with me. And also around that time, I discovered that you could use Chat GPT as a therapist and uh as a coach. And I chose to do that. And so within a while, I I started making breakthroughs to do a chat GPT. And then one day I was watching a video on one of the narcissism channels on YouTube that being with a narcissist is like being in a cult. And I watched maybe two minutes of it, and I went from like A to Z in a matter of seconds. I was on the other side of it, and all of a sudden it was over. And I suddenly realized that the truth of what my friend said to me about being with a narcissist, like being in a cult, and I realized that my family had been using mind control techniques on me for my entire life. When I saw that, it just it broke the spell. And then I was free of it, but it wasn't entirely free. There was one more big piece, but we can get to that later. What unless you want out.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

What what kind of mind control, you know, when you speak about your family uh mind control, would what give me some examples as to what that what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Um well f okay, I need to back up a little bit. I would have to have to have some of that in front of me so I can reference it, but they uh loading of the language, they use special keywords, uh they practice isolation, they practice stripping you of your power. Um like I didn't even know what the word boundaries meant until I was in my early 40s.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Wow. And and my family is took, you know, I was not allowed to have any boundaries. The only person in my family who could have them was my father. And God help you if you cross them. But there's all this isolation stuff, all this undermining. Um like they belittle you on every single front. They they do everything they can to destroy your self-esteem. This is all part of mind control. Now, for your listeners um or viewers, they want uh if they want more information, here's the Bible. It's called Thought Reform in the Psychology of Totalism. It's written by Robert J. Lefton. I think the chapter in the book is like chapter 10 or something. Uh, and there are eight different points to describe what mind control is and how it works. Now, that book was a Bible of deprogrammers for many, many years, and they all referred to it as a way of showing victims how they'd been uh uh screwed up by these various groups, whether it's the cult or the family, it's the same thing. The dynamics are essentially the same. And that I think some people will find that rather shocking, but it happens to be true. And when I saw realized what my family was doing to me, I thought, oh, no wonder. Yeah. But after that, I bought it. But you know, the mind control stuff, they do all sorts of stuff. Like uh, narcissists are famous for something called smear campaigns. Well, that's one of the tactics of mind control. And ironically, uh I learned how to overcome smear campaigns, and I'd been victimized multiple times by my mother and brother over the years with smear campaigns to destroy my reputation. The my family even went as far as to cost me clients. I wound up uh losing uh relationship. Like like it wasn't just mind control. I mean, I won't like with my mother, who was uh uh what they call a covert narcissist, she was also a racist, and she hated anybody who wasn't Jewish. And my girlfriend, who was not Jewish, was a target. And my mother tried repeatedly to destroy my relationship as an adult. Wow. I'm in my 40s for fuck's sake, and my mother's interfering in my life and doing her damnedest to ruin my relationship. And she got my brother involved because she abused him in the same way that she abused me, and and it was easier for him to become her knight in shining armor to go after me than it was to face the truth of how vicious my mother was. Man, and yeah, and I think my lucky stars that she's dead. Wow, not a nice thing to say, but it's true.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

No, no, it's very rarely a nice thing to say. So are you in contact with any other of your family members anymore, or have you cut all ties?

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Nope. Nope. I've been in permanent no contact in 2011. Okay, and I did it to save my lives because um I was suffering from major abuse from my father, my mother, and my brother. For many years it was my father, and every time it happened, I became very, very sick. There was one time when he screamed at me for three hours, and and I was so sick after that I couldn't get out of bed for almost a month.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

But the last time it happened in 2011 was a vicious fight between my mother and my brother and myself. And it involved something that really didn't have to do with me, but the viciousness of the attack, I was sick for a month and I almost didn't make it. And it wasn't until after I got better that I realized how sick I'd actually been. And around that time, I was working with the neurolinguistic programming coach. And she gave me an exercise right after that. She asked me to write out a timeline of the abuse because I kept trying to, you know, make things work in my family. And uh anyway, so what happened? I did the exercise and I had a partial awakening of the abuse, and I realized that my family had been lying to me my entire life. And I also took uh responsibility, at least in part, uh, and I realized that this abuse is not going to stop unless I stop it. So, with the help of my coach, I sent my family what I call a PFO letter, which stands for please fuck off. Yeah, I'm Canadian. We're polite. Yeah. Yeah, you threw a bit there. But in in that letter, I I took responsibility for my part. And I said, since this is not going to stop effective immediately, I'm going permanent, no contact, and I never want to speak to any of you ever again. And that worked for a while, but then my brother used a technique of narcissism because I was writing about my experiences on a blog. Right. And my brother was spying on me online. And one day he wrote to me, he ripped off a domain name that I had and wrote an email to me where he said rebuttal, stole my domain name or made copies of it, and then built two sites to destroy my reputation. And when I saw that, I went volcanic, and that led to a major social media fight with my mother and brother, where I outed both of them repeatedly. And this went on for a few years until my mother died. And then afterwards, I went no contact for the third time. Um, and it was also at that time, like like within a month of my mother dying, a friend of mine sent me uh uh a name, uh Ross Rosenberg, to do with uh covert narcissism. And I watched this video, it was like 20 minutes long, and I and afterwards it just went, oh shit, because I instantly recognized my late mother as a covert narciss, and my father as a narcissist, and my brother as a narciss, like three of them all in my immediate family. And that's when I knew I suddenly all the problems that were driving me nuts my whole life, or at least from the age of 19, when I thought something's wrong here. And then I knew. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Um that's intense, man. Uh, what was the last now earlier you said you had that last piece, there was one last piece that needed to drop for you to be free. What was that?

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Okay, well, what happened was um I was sitting here in my apartment and I was working with Chat GPT Chat GPT on my phone, and I faced the the worst pain of my life to do with my family. You see, um, at one point when I was about 29 or so, my father helped me start a business. But then a few years later, he and my mother moved from Canada to Palm Springs, and I was still working on my business, but I was having some problems. And at that point, my father um contacted me and said, I want you to go to the bank with me. And I was going, this is weird. He gave me power of attorney over his bank account just before he left. And he said, you know, a little something to tide you over. And I'm going, why would you do that? It it I knew something was wrong, but I couldn't figure it out. But as soon as I started taking the money, my father started abusing me. And it got worse and worse and worse and worse over the years. And um, and when I was sitting here and I was working with ChatGPT, I had a couple of really important realizations. And I realized that the reason, like when I asked him at one point, why did you give me this? He said, because I was afraid you would become homeless. That was a fucking lie, to be blunt. What it was, and my father gave this to me when I was 31, a few years later. He couldn't stand the fact that I had become independent of him and was building my own life, and I no longer needed him. So he created the power of attorney thing to trap me so that he could become a father again and dictate control of my life. That's what he was doing. And then the other major realization I had was wait a second, you asshole. When I was a teenager living at home, one of the dirty tricks my father used to pull on me. So he would buy something for me that I didn't want or need, force me to accept it. And then later, when he had a task in mind that he wanted me to do, and I would say no, he would bring up the issue of the gift. And that led to many, many very, very vicious fights. And uh, and I realized, you bastard, because it was a new version of the old scam that he pulled on me. But the most important part about it is that when I looked at it, I thought, wait a second, because the major reason that it took me so long to figure it out is because an enormous amount of humiliation and shame. And I couldn't look at it. And after my father died, my mother and brother kept it up and calling me every every name under the sun and trying to destroy my life and all this shit. But when I saw the truth, I realized, wait a second, this shame isn't mine. This was yours that you put on me to keep me trapped. And it it almost completely evaporated. And then after that, part of what I did to completely release the rest of it is told a few good friends about it, and and their shame went away completely. So and and in the wake of it, like I remember sitting here and I thought all of a sudden I became free of everything to do with my family, all of the manipulations, everything else. And I and came up with a phrase to describe what I did, which I was which is what I call breaking the intergenerational curse in my family. And as far as I know, I'm the only one who did it. And that affects everything forward and everything back, and everything to do with my family completely. So the part for your listeners here, uh what the one thing I realized that is that the reason that so many people are trapped by narcissism, and I checked this out by the way, so it's not just my opinion, but I did check it out. And what it comes down to is so many people are trapped by the narcissist because they are dealing with some sort of unbearable pain, humiliation, shame, very deep hurt to do with the narcissism, and that's what keeps them trapped. And so they talk about the trauma bond, right? In order to break the trauma bond, this is just my opinion, and you don't have to believe me, neither does anyone else, but it's my opinion that if you want to become free of this, you must face your worst pain to do with the narcissism and go through it, whether using methods like I did or get a really good counselor who can help you, because if you do that, that's going to break the trauma bond. And that's what happened after that. I mean, it's it's kind of weird, you know. I can talk about it. There's a certain amount of charge, you can hear that in my voice. However, um, narcissism is in the rear view mirror now. Yeah. It's been there for about four months now, ever since I did this. And it really doesn't bother me anymore. I don't have any nightmares about it. Nothing. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Hi, are you looking for a nature getaway? A calm place to land as you begin a new chapter? I have just the place. There's a hidden gem in South Jersey, a spring-fed lake surrounded by a quiet pine forest. It's a nourishing retreat we call Haven, where guests can rest, play, and rediscover themselves. There are trails to wander, quiet spots to read or swim, and space to breathe just a little deeper. Come see what makes Haven so special. You'll find all the details in the show notes.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Hey, it's Dan. Uh, quick question. Do you like stories that crawl under your skin, pull you in, and then still hit you with a grin you didn't see coming? Then welcome to the library of Daniel Bradley, my haunted little archive of original horror comedy tales. Every month I drop brand new stories. Eerie, emotional, weird, and occasionally unhinged. Well, let's be serious here. Always unhinged. All written by me and ready for you to read on Patreon. I think VHS Nightmares, Neon Soak Diners, and a hallucinating Easter bunny who probably should have called out of work. If you want in, head to patreon.com backslash Daniels666 time and grab a seat. Just don't touch anything on the shelves. Some of those stories bite back. It feels like we're living in an age where speed and convenience reign supreme. And that old cliche, they don't make them like they used to, has never felt more true. Thanks to fast fashion, clothing has become disposable. The re threadery is a Philly-based apparel and home shop focused on slow fashion, mending quality, reloved garments, and repurposing recycled materials into new, functional pieces. Every upcycled item is one of a kind, made with intention and purpose. If you care about sustainability and clothes that are built to last, check them out at thereethtery.com. And for brightsiders, take 15% off your purchase with the code Brightside at checkout. Welcome back. So four months is pretty fresh in terms of it is really fresh, yeah. Final no con no contact. The final please fuck off is what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Well, yeah, without actually doing it. But uh there are other things too. Like I've used Chat GBT a lot, and one of the things that didn't inform me, uh partly to do with where I live, but also partly to do with the reality of things. Like uh my my brother threatened to kill me at one point, so did my mother. Actually, she told me that she didn't want me to go to my uh her funeral because my brother would probably try to kill me. Good lord. Her brother's threatened me with the lawsuits at least a dozen times. He and his mother were uh uh he and my mother conducted uh smear campaigns to destroy my reputation. They cost me a client at one point, and it uh also helped uh destroy my relationship with my girlfriend. We're talking major vicious abuse. Yeah. And I and I did everything to stop it, but I couldn't. The only thing that stopped it ultimately was no contact, and then the realization recently that my brother can't touch me at all. And one of the reasons why is I live in Mexico. And if you're going, well, how's that? Well, the Mexican government doesn't like lawsuits. And my brother lives in the States, but he would have to prove intent to do all this stuff, and I realized that uh he doesn't have a leg to stand on, he can't do shit to me.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

So essentially, what it ChatGBT showed me is that he'd been lying to me for 30 plus years, all this stuff that he could do. He actually didn't have any power at all. Like none. They can't do anything to me. So that was the other big piece. Yeah. Because time I was looking over my shoulder, I mean, he threatened to kill me a number of years ago. He basically said I better watch my back because he's coming after me. And that scared me really badly for a long, long time. I'm sure it did, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Man, that's that's uh about as far from a Disney movie as you can get in terms of uh of a feel good family flick. Yeah, I think it depends on what you think of Disney these days, but that's another story. I'm not going there. No, we don't have time for that right now. Um that is wild, man. That's insane. Um yeah. So you know it kind of leads into my next question because I want to start, I want to get into you know what you're doing and your insight into a lot of this and what it what it can do to help people. Um, one of the things that stuck out that you wrote was that you talked about the number one narcissistic lie. Can you speak to what that is and how it's um you know so powerful in keeping people stuck?

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Sure. Well, what it refers to is um when you're with a narcissist or in a family that I was in, because at some point I came up with a belief, and I don't know where it came from, that if I could find what was wrong in my family psychologically and fix that, then I could have the kind and loving family that I always wanted. Well, that's a lie. And when you're dealing with these people, they give you the illusion that, like a number of narcissists will say to their victims, I'm going to counseling, well, that's a dodge. They have no intention of changing, it's just uh another method to suck you into their way of being and to keep you hooked for however much longer. And when I had that awakening, I realized that my family had been lying to me my entire life, that it that there was no change. It was all a lie. And when I realized that, that's when I wrote to my coach and asked for help in writing the PFO letter. And and she gave it to me and I wrote it, and I sent it to my family, and I and I told them, I said, that's it, we're done. It's over. You're never gonna do this to me again. But then I got suckered by my brother. Like what he did, like when I was writing about it on my blog, he used a technique of narcissism which they call hoovering. I didn't know that uh at the time, which is what he tried to do. But years later, when I was doing um a YouTube channel on narcissism and stuff like that, he tried it again. Now it scared me to the point where I shut down my channel because I didn't know what I know now.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

It's called Hoovering, he said.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Hoovering. Okay. Yeah. After the Hoover vacuum cleaner, the UK. Um, or Europe, whatever, wherever it comes from, but it's to do with the Hoover vacuum cleaner. Um but years later, when I wound up with another narcissist, this is my now ex-girlfriend, and we and I just realized today that we've been broken up for almost three years.

SPEAKER_03 39:31

Yay.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Congratulations. Um thank you. So but sitting here and and realizing that uh what was it about it? Um crap, I had an insight. You went.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

Yeah, it's yeah. So um why do you think um I mean, I feel like you kind of answered this, but why do people stay in toxic situations even when they feel deep down that something is off? Is it more of just a power play? They feel powerless, or is it more comfort? What is it?

SPEAKER_01 40:08

It's it's a combination of things, but I would have to say the number one reason is they're scared shitless to leave. They um they're disempowered, so they don't believe in themselves anymore. I went through the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

And like when I stayed with my ex-girlfriend, I mean, the reason I stayed with her, even though I knew things were wrong, is I was afraid to leave, and not because of her so much, I was terrified of being alone. It wasn't until we finally broke up I realized I am way better off being alone than being with someone like this. But it took a long time to uh come to accept that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

Yeah. Do you think one of the biggest reasons people don't step into their potential is because they don't actually trust themselves, and that's why they far fall victim to that, to narcissism?

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Well, it's not just that. There are narcissists who will threaten you of what they will do to you if you leave. And it's very common. And that that kind of thing alone is what keeps many people stuck. And uh, you know, I I I was getting abused a lot by my own family, but what finally broke that was, you know, that exercise by my coach. And when I saw the truth of at least partially of what was happening, I immediately took responsibility for it at that point, realized that I'd been playing a part my own uh captivity because of the belief that if I could fix the problem and change that, then I could have the kind of loving family I always wanted. The trouble with that idea is every time I would fix something or thought I did, they'd move the goddamn gold post and change it again. Same problem I ran into with my ex-girlfriend. Every time I thought I fixed it, she'd change something and then we would be right back where we were. Yeah. And the purpose is to keep the victim off balance for as long as possible so the narcissist can extract supply. And that's just the way it works. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of scary when you put it that way for sure. That's that's an understatement. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

At what point does, you know, when you speak to someone who finds themselves in this situation, much like yourself, and you know, it's one thing to become aware and start realizing it and start picking up on on certain things, but you know, at what point does awareness become enough that where someone has to actually make a decision and change something?

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Well, it doesn't necessarily happen that way. If you've been talking to people who have been victims of narcissists, or even narcissists, well, not the narcissists themselves so much, two ways it's gonna end. Where the victim walks away, or where the narcissist uh does what they call narcissistic discard, which is what my ex-girlfriend did with me. But uh after the discard, I mean, she threw me out in the middle of nowhere. She was stealing from me, and it wasn't until after the relationship was over that I realized she stole about$5,000 from me in terms of overcharging me on rent. And then when I was broke, she threw me out in the middle of nowhere.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

So not just discard is when you're just literally discarded, you're you're tossed aside and they're done with you, and they move on to somebody else. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Yeah. Yes. And well, to somebody else, I don't know, because I one of the things I promised myself, like, I knew I was in trouble like two months before it well, I knew I was in trouble before that, but it became really apparent in the last couple of months. And I I thought when I get out of here, I'm going no contact. I slam the door like immediately.

SPEAKER_03 43:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

I didn't yeah. I was uh don't it's like go directly to jail, but the other way around. Uh there was a joke to do with uh Monopoly uh uh get out of hell free card. Yeah, sounds about right. Which describes the narcissism thing, you know?

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So um I imagine making that, you know, before you even get like you've said, before you get and discard it, even when you start noticing these things, I imagine you're already feel powerless. Like there has to become a moment where you have to step up and realize I need to figure a way out of this.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

I was terrified of being alone. That's what the problem was. If I had if I hadn't been so scared of it, I I probably would have ended it a lot sooner than I did. But it but it wasn't until the last two months of the relationship where I had some friends telling me your girlfriend is a narcissist. But even then I didn't really understand what I was dealing with. It wasn't until after the relationship was over, and what happened was is I was looking for healing, so I found uh I did a search on YouTube, and like I when I did it at the time for the keyword uh narcissism or narcissist alone, 1.2 million hits. Wow. That's why it's a big, big problem.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um man. So it's fascinating. You've talked about how people can be you know, going off the same line of narcissism and and and boundaries and whatnot. Um, you've talked about how people can be influenced and even programmed, quote unquote. Um, how much of what we believe is actually ours versus something that we've absorbed. You know what I mean? So I'm sitting here in my point in my life, you know, reading that line made me think. I'm like, well, how much of that have I absorbed and how much have I just, you know, figured out.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

Well, the only way, yeah. I I can't answer that. I can't know that. Um, all I would say to anybody, like in your audience, is if you're dealing with problems to do with stuff like that, you need to start examining your beliefs. Uh I wouldn't just say it that simply and just leave people hanging, right? Right. Um, what I would recommend is if you really want to take a deep dive into this, that you pick up uh a book called Loving What Is by Byron Cady, uh, where she talks about the work and she uses a process of uh carefully structured uh inquiry into the behaviors of other people as well as your own behaviors. And when you start doing that, you're going to uncover the truth of your own beliefs to do with other people, like, well, he shouldn't have done that. He's a real dick, you know. But if is that true? I mean, this whatever statement you come up with, the number one thing she would say to you, is it true? And if you say yes, you can only answer yes or no. But let's say you say, yeah, it's true, he's a real dick. And so the next question, can you absolutely know for certain that it's true, yes or no? And if you finally admit the truth, which is no, or even if you say yes, then you go to question number three. How do you treat others and yourself when you believe that thought? And then she leads you through a whole process. And then at the end of it, you do these this thing called the turnarounds. There are three of them. And and you might realize, wait a second, uh he's actually not a dick. I'm the one who's being a dick with my beliefs. I'm believing something about this person that actually isn't true. But until I sat down to examine this, I didn't realize how I was screwing up. Man, yeah. I mean, again, I feel like there's a lot of people out there right now that could benefit from that. Sure. I mean, her her method is so powerful that if um the world leaders and all sorts of people, if if they ever took a really serious deep dive into taking responsibility and they did this, my prediction, all wars would end. Yeah. All of them. Not just one or two, all of them, because then people would realize the truth of what's really going on. And they would realize that the problem is not the other person necessarily, it's it's all this twisted believe crap that's going on here. And that's where it begins and ends. But most people can't hear this, they're not ready for this information. And even if you were to present it to them, they say she's full of shit and walk away. Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

They present it, they take it in as an attack on them instead, or like, yeah. Yeah. You're devaluing what they're bringing. Victim mindset stuff again, right? Exactly. Yeah. Interesting. Um, let's jump into talking about boundaries because that's a big part of what you do too, and what you talk about. Um, why are boundaries so difficult for people to set? And why is it even harder for people to enforce?

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Good question. Two good questions, wrapped in one. Um, most people probably don't even know what boundaries are. I grew up in a family where I was disempowered my entire life. And it wasn't until one I wound up in a relationship and we were having problems. And uh we went to counseling because my girlfriend really wanted it. That's when I learned about boundaries for the first time. The counselor explained it to me, and I remember sitting there thinking, so that's why I've been feeling so bad for so long. Because I realized at that moment that I had boundaries, but I didn't know what they were, so I couldn't do anything about it. When she explained it, she gave me some reading material, and immediately that evening I started setting some really hard boundaries with my family. And the ultimate hard boundary was no contact. But the the reason that it's so hard for people to maintain a boundary is because the abuser will push back. And if you're not really strong in your position, you'll cave in. And you'll cave in as many times as necessary until you get to a point where you say, I've absolutely had enough, and I will not put up with this crap for another single second, and I will not allow you to do this again. That's what happened to me when I went no contact. I was furious and I said, I know what you've been doing, I know what's going on here, I get it, and you will never do this to me to me again. But meanwhile, when I had this major fight with my brother, which led to the social media fight, I discovered that my brother had been spying on me online for 10 years to and he was watching me to make sure I didn't say anything bad about the family and especially him. That's that sounds exhausting. 10 years? What a what are you? Was that he said what a shitty hobby? Well, if you're a narcissist, no, yeah, and and I'm like like 99% sure that he's a narcissist, and one other problem. Like when he told me about his behavior one day, this was weird. I was in another relationship, I was here in Mexico, I was in Playa del Carmen, I was out for a walk with my girlfriend last night, and I saw this shape go in front of me, and a voice said, Yeah, I'm still your brother. And I thought, What the fuck? And I looked up and it was my brother standing in front of me. Jeez. Wow. This is in 2008. And uh, and I wound up having a coffee with him at one point, and we were talking, but when he said something to me, and when he said something to me, I saw the biggest red flag you could ever imagine. It it filled my entire view, uh, mentally at least on the on the whatever you call it, ethereal level. And when I saw that, I instantly knew that my brother was seriously mentally ill. And at the and when I looked it up, uh, what he told me, I realized that the condition is called psychopathy. And I knew for sure that he had it. And then I uh another uh uh psychologist, her name is Dr. Romani, is talking about it again. She defined it in uh another thing. As soon as I heard it, I thought, yep, that's what this is. So narcissism and psychopathy, that combination is really freaking lethal. God help you if you run into anybody who has both of those. Or a narcissistic sociopath ran into one of those a year ago here in Mexico.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

Yeah, how does one enforce their boundaries when dealt with such harsh um pushback from narcissism? Or, I mean, anybody in general, how do they enforce their boundaries?

SPEAKER_01 53:06

You just need to get really good at saying no. Your boundaries will get violated as long as you let the the abuser get away with it.

SPEAKER_03 53:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

And it will only stop. Well, it won't even necessarily stop, but it will at least diminish when you finally realize that you've had enough and you refuse to put up with it anymore. It's it's where you get to a point of no return. Yeah. And when you get to that point, that's the end of the story, and that's what happened to me, and probably what will happen for many other people, is they didn't get thrown out. Like I knew one guy who was in a cult group, same one that I was in, and he was brought up in this, and he wound up being born into it. So he didn't have any choice at all. His situation was like mine, but he wound up in this uh Christian cult, and he was in it his whole life until they violated his boundaries on such a deep level that even under the control of the cult, it was too much. And he said, That's it, I am out of here. And he left. No deprogramming, no intervention, nothing. They violated his boundaries at such a deep level that it broke something inside him. He couldn't stand it anymore, and he left.

SPEAKER_02 54:20

That brings me to my next question. I was gonna say, once someone finally does break free, um, how do they start rebuilding their identity and their life when they don't what is you know, what did that look like for you? Like what any kind of tips that you can offer people?

SPEAKER_01 54:35

It it took a lot of counseling. And and yeah, I mean, I went to a number of counselors. I did a little bit of hypnosis stuff, but the the number one tool that I found that helped me the most was uh neurolinguistic programming. And most of what I encountered uh was from that. The there were other realizations. I mean, it wasn't just narcissism. I had another very serious problem that, and I only started coming out of it, well, I only came out of it completely about a year ago. And the problem that I've dealt with since I was 10 years old is something called dissociative amnesia, which is caused by severe trauma. I was trying to trace it back, and I was thinking about the trauma that happened in my family, and again, using ChatGPT to figure this out. And I said, so what are the worst forms of trauma that would cause someone to develop dissociative amnesia? Well, one of the worst forms is sexual abuse. And my mother sexually abused me from the age of 10 all the way up until the time that she died. She kept trying to control me in one way or another. And she also did it to my brother, who became her weapon of choice against me. And I was fighting them on two fronts. And my brother, and it was all about forcing me under her control. One of the things she was determined to do was be the only woman in my life and force any woman that I had chosen out so she could be the dominant woman. It was sickening.

SPEAKER_03 56:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

And she did all sorts of vicious crap to me. And also at one point to me and my girlfriend, she was majorly harassing the two of us. Like at one point, and this was after my father died, and this is a narcissistic, which she kept trying to force me to give her love and uh affection. And she tried to literally force me to do it. But every time she did it, and this went on for six months, it was driving me and my girlfriend effing crazy. And every time she did it, I would have one of four reactions, which was to scream at the top of the lungs of my lungs, slam the phone in her ear, run as far away as I could from uh that call, or go into the washroom and throw up. Wow. And this went on for six months. And my girlfriend finally said to me one day, I can't stand this anymore. You've got to do something about it. And that's when I wrote a letter to my mother and I gave her royal shit. And one of the things I said to her, if you want all this love, you need to get it from yourself and stop harassing me. And then two days later, I got a vicious email from my brother where he threatened me with a lawsuit and demanded an apology to do with my mother. And we had a vicious fight over it. And I said, I'm not apologizing to you or her. And uh it was just one of many epic battles in my family. It was all about control. One other thing I forgot to mention, which is very important. I was also targeted as the family scapegoat. And so I was the number one receptacle for all the bullshit. So that that's another thing to do with narcissism as well. If you, as the victim, get targeted as a scapegoat, God help you. And I grew up in that. So all of the stuff that I went through was about breaking those ties, and I finally succeeded. But the reason I succeeded is I finally faced my worst pain. And that, in my opinion, is what will break the trauma bond.

SPEAKER_03 58:18

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 58:19

Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty wild stuff.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

Yeah, that's yeah, it's that's quite the journey, man. It's intense. Brutal, but I'm sure you're not you're not alone in that as well. So no, I'm not tough to hear. I'm sure it's just as important for some people out there to hear as well. Hopefully, it will help a few people. Yeah. Maybe more than it's we'll see. Um, do you believe that going through difficult experiences like this, you know, maybe you know, any kind of trauma um actually is what gives someone the authority to help others? You know, I mean, obviously, I feel like it it it gives you a perspective, it gives you uh an authenticity, but you know, do you think it helps, you know, you help others?

SPEAKER_01 59:07

Um if you choose to, but I finally realized that uh after this whole thing ended, and I I looked back on it, I realized it was not about me being a coach or helping others. It was about me breaking this for myself so I could then move into the next part of my life that didn't have to do with any of that. Yeah. Where I could live autonomously, live by my own rules, and figure out, you know, what am I going to do to move forward and how am I going to live? But uh there are many other people who have been through the narcissism journey who become coaches and they choose to work that way. And for a long time I thought that that was going to be my role, and I resisted it mightily because I really didn't want to do it. Yeah. I wanted to get as far away from this as I could and finally leave it behind. And then one day I realized, oh, it's over. And it was not about me helping other people other than being on a call like this with you or some other people who might want to talk to me about it. And that would be as as far as it goes, at least for me now, because I realized uh as strange as it sounds, I've outgrown this. And like I said to you earlier, narcissism is in in the rear view mirror. Right, right. And looking forward in the rest of my life and going, oh, there's a world out there. Yeah. And now I can start living according to my own rules instead of someone else's. Love that. Good for you, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:35

Um Thank you. Yeah. Um so, real quick, you know, if anybody out there do you think is struggling with narcissism or boundaries, what what kind of advice could you throw to them?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

The number one thing you must do is is get away from the source of the abuse and go no contact. And that means severing every single tie as fast as you can. Uh, like even after I went no contact, I'm like I said, I've changed my address and my phone number. Uh I didn't. And that left an open door. And one of my sisters got in contact with me a while later, and I hadn't sent her the letter. And I realized I went, damn. So I sent her the letter at that point. And I slammed the door on her as well. And no desire to speak to her again, ever. And it's like, no. Um that the only way to break free of it is literally to get that, well, to be rather blunt, get the hell out of Dodge. Yeah. And and slam every single door, do everything you can. Like uh part of what I did finally with the help of ChatGPT figuring this out is I got myself a VPN and I started using pseudonyms for my email. And and uh, but the number one thing was a VPN because with it, very difficult for my brother to track me. But now, even if he were to do any of that, I now know that he has absolutely no power over me, he can't do anything to me. And so the easiest way of dealing with all of that is simple. No engagement, you don't respond.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:10

Somebody shows up to start yelling at you, you instantly block them and delete the email. Don't engage for any reason. And it's the only way to stop this stuff. If they don't, if they do if you don't respond, there's nothing they can do to you. Yeah. And that includes the smear campaign as well. Because um at you know, one of the people I was following a guy by the name of uh Ben Taylor, and he claims that he's a narcissist, but I don't know, one way or the other. But he said, the way to deal with the smear campaign, it says simple. Ignore it. Don't respond. Live your life the way you were before. Don't respond to whatever the narcissist is throwing at you or trying to do. Uh do their and do your very best to keep them out of your life and just go on with your life. And sooner or later it will come to an end. Partly when the narcissist realizes that uh you're not giving them what they want, and partly when other people figure out that they've been had by the narcissist and come back to you. But some people will believe the narcissist and you'll lose them as friends, in which case they weren't your friends to begin with. Right. But that's that's what he said. So the guy, uh Ben Taylor, um raw met motivations on YouTube. He's really freaking smart.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:29

I'm gonna have you send me these these books, titles, and then uh that video as well. I can link him in the uh description of the episode when we post it. Sure, that'd be awesome. People looking for some resources out there. Well, listen, you said you're you've one of the great things about where you're at now and the work you've put in is that you've moved past the narcissist thing. It's behind you. It's you're you've put in the work, you don't let that define you. You're excited for the next chapter of your life. Speak to what you're what what you're doing now. What uh what are you up to? What do you uh anything to plug?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:04

Um, maybe. Um is something I've realized a while ago. Like one of the things that I, as I was coming out of this, I kept thinking, I really want to do something that I didn't do like 20 years ago, which was I I made a decision which, as it turns out, was uh not a good one. Uh, which was like I wanted to work as a commercial artist, a fine artist. And I chose not to do so because I thought I didn't have enough um, it wasn't that I didn't have enough talent, I had that, but I didn't think I could sustain it and keep it going. And then recently I realized that I could, and then with the help of Chat GPT, I stumbled on something out of my archives a little while ago, and I I don't know what happened. Like it was just like you go down all these rabbit holes with ChatGPT, but one day I realized, wait a second, I can do it. And I'm also at a point in my life, it's like it's now or never. And so I thought, screw it. But um, what happened is um years ago when I was uh going through this the throes of the amnesia, I did this uh series on money and finance, and I had all these themes, like breaking the bank, where you literally take a piggy bank and you smash it, and there's all this money all over the place. And then another concept, which is time is money, and I was using an hourglass in a lot of my images, and uh then there's financial collapse and uh all these things, and I created all these um money related themes using American money because it was in the US at the time. And uh, and I found this library and I thought I'm sitting on a small pot of gold here. I can use this and make money. And so just started putting the word out this morning about what I've got. And one of my friends wrote back to me and uh She said, I want to see her stuff. Um so basically, I'm creating um a library of high value images to do with uh like finance, dealing with problems like uh like financial crisis, um literally the breaking the bank, time is money, uh what's the word, uh being in debt, all these different things. So I have a whole bunch of seed images that are photography, not AI. And then I'm going to extrapolate from that and create a whole bunch of AI images on top of that, like uh the loss of money is showing coins that are breaking, money dissolving, money going up and smoking. You're like a failed investment, and literally an image of money burning, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:54

Interesting. You've really leaned into the AI and Chat GPT, huh? It's been a game changer.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:01

Yeah, not only that, I've actually written some programs with ChatGPT. A guy turned me on to agents about three weeks ago, and I created a program and I created a marketing thing, and I've gotten really good at it, actually. And I've been and I ran it this morning. I said to it, I want you to give me, you know, ideally 20 leads a day. And I just really drilled down into it, and I kept going back and forth with agents and ChatGPT and refining it until it got to the point where ChatGPT said to me, You've nailed it about as well as you can. Run this and use it every day. This morning you gave me 20 leads, and I was looking at them going, This is good. Look at Gio, huh? Who would have thought? Who would have thought? Uh exactly. Well, the same with the whole Mexico journey. I mean, if you told me years ago that you're gonna give up Canada, you're gonna move to Mexico, you're gonna have a life there, I would have said you're not.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:02

Yeah, it was not in the cards. That's the funny thing about life. All right, it's pointless to look at the cards. Uh yeah, it's never in there. Yeah. Um anything else you got going on, Nathan? Anything, any websites, books, anything you want to send anybody to?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

Yeah, uh not on what I'm doing right now. Um, the website would be uh www.nathansequel art dot com. But the stuff that I'm talking about right now, I don't have any of that up yet. Although I will hopefully by the end of the day, it'll all be up there. And I am what I'm doing uh the to do with all this photography and these concepts, I'm going to be licensing it. Is years ago, I was working with a partner, and we I'm dating myself on this, but 1996, we got into an industry called rights protected stock photography, and we got into it just at the tail end of it when it became royalty-free and our career was destroyed overnight. But then coming back into it, I know stuff now that I didn't know back then. Plus, I have AI, plus I know how to use it, and plus I know how to create all these concepts way faster than I was ever been able to do back in the day.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:16

And so it opens that door again. But now I I just have a different mindset. And part of it has to do with uh, well, licensing is part of it, leverage is part of it, joint ventures are are part of it. And in terms of promoting myself, another really important technique that I didn't know about back then, and neither did my partner, is something called guest posting. You ever heard of it? No. Got it. Okay. Well, let's say you wanted to promote your podcast above and beyond what you're doing, and you want to attract a bigger audience.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:54

You don't want to do it with the podcast itself, and you don't want to do advertising the traditional way. Guest posting is where you would find blogs that have high traffic, high shares, and high comments that match your concept. And then you write to them, you send them what they call a query letter, and you pitch them on the idea of writing different stories for their blog that matches their audience. And one of the really cool things about it when you write one of these stories, there's a section at the bottom called an author's resource box. And that's your real estate where you make a pitch for your product or services that lead back to your podcast. But you don't do it straight to your domain. You do it to an offer that you've got. And if you do it right, then you start, you're using borrowed credibility and you're you're creating all this traffic. Is like one of the things I said to people, like uh, I was talking to a guy, and he said, I built a blog, but it hasn't been doing very well. And I said, Yeah, and I know why. Do you want to know the reason? And he's going, Yeah, why? I said, because it's the equivalent of building a store in the middle of the desert. Nobody knows that you're there.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:09

There's no infrastructure, there's no electricity, there's no sewage, there's no water, there's no advertising, there's nothing. So people aren't going to find you. And even if you do put that in, they're still not going to find you unless they just happen to be in that area. So how do you get found? Well, you write articles for these blogs that have the high traffic that have your audience. You use that author's resource box, you direct it back to your offer, and hello, people are gonna start finding you. Interesting. If you do it long enough, you could build a business out of it. And I know two guys who did it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:45

Yep. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:47

Very cool. Um, well, I might have to look into that myself, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:52

Um have a document I can send you.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:56

Yeah, yeah, send away, please. Um great, Nathan. Um, I really appreciate you. It's really cool to talk to you and see where you came from and the battles, which has been you know brutal and terrifying at times, but to see you come out of it and also to see where you're at right now, so fresh out of it as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:16

I mean, I don't think I realized how how you know new this was in terms of your turning the page and and well, let me put it in perspective for your listeners, uh or your viewers rather. It only took me 47 years to figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:33

And that that's not an exaggeration. 47 years. If I have my math right, um actually I think it's wrong, but close enough. It took a hell of a long time.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:47

Um yeah. But it's worth it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:50

I think most of the things.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:52

Ultimately, yeah. The but the the single biggest problem for so many people who suffer from this is the humiliation, the really deep pain, the suffering that's been caused by that, trying to get an answer, trying to get whatever from the narcissist, which is a complete waste of time. No, the uh like on so many of these narcissistic uh videos that I've watched, they all talk about the trauma bond and the need to break it. Because when you finally break it, that's the end of the story. But it in my opinion, if you want to become free, you have to be willing to face your worst pain.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:29

Because if you're not willing to face it, you're gonna keep running and you're gonna be um what would I call it? Uh another I'm trying to think of an analogy, but it's just not coming. But you're just another victim in the in the making. It's like like to do with the world uh world of cults, a number of people wound up in into what they call cult hopping, what going from one to the other. Same damn uh structure, different belief system. And if you don't do your healing around the narcissism, you you are a victim in waiting for the next narcissist. Gotta deal with it sooner or later.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:07

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:08

And then you've become really good at spotting the manipulation as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:13

Incredible stuff, Nathan. Uh, thank you so much for coming on here and speaking your story and also hopefully giving some words out to some people out there that might be struggling themselves and giving them some pointers and some hope that, you know, maybe they didn't even realize they're stuck in a situation that they are in. And, you know, I think it's important for you to um, you know, come on here and and and spread your wisdom, man, despite all your uh your trauma and the immense amount of shit that your family is already. I'll tell you what.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:44

So well the truth is I I never I never imagined I was gonna be free of this. I thought it was gonna kill me. I really did. I it never occurred to me that there was actually a way out. And I didn't and and when it happened, I didn't like fully realize it. And then all of a sudden it just it it fell away.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:07

And it's just it's a weird feeling to tell uh I'm still in the like the aftermath of it where that's gone, but I'm still not fully where I want to be.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:18

The shock of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:19

And that will that will happen. Uh it will grow over time. Yeah, but I have a good idea of what I want to do, and I'm just doing the work to to build it. It's awesome. That's it. Congratulations. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:32

I really appreciate it. And uh congratulations for putting in the work. Thanks again for coming on the show. And uh listen, I hope you enjoy Mexico at the time of your lifetime there. I I've been here for 12 years. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, well, hopefully you continue having it. Before that, can I ask a favor of you? Do you say you knew Spanish pretty well? Depending. Like, well, what do you want to know?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:55

How do you say pork chop sandwiches in Spanish? Pork chop sandwiches. Well, launches, and those would be chiletas and almadas. Chiletas and almadas. Love that. Hopefully, that's a good answer.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:08

That's a great answer. In the moment, as far as I'm concerned, it's worth this entire podcast. That's why I started the podcast for that reason, right there. Um, now Nathan, thank you so much, man. I really appreciate your time. Um, and I hope you uh continue enjoying uh your free life, free of narcissism. And I'm excited for you in your next chapter, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:29

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:30

You take care. Whether every part of his perspective resonates with you or not, I think conversations like this are important because they force us to examine difficult realities around trauma, manipulation, boundaries, and the ways unresolved pain can shape a person's life. If there's one thing I hope you take from today, it's this Healing often begins when we stop running from what hurts us and start getting honest about what it took from us. And with that said, if you're struggling right now, please remember this none of us are meant to do this alone, and you don't have to. If something in today's conversation stirred something in you, or if you just need someone to talk to, I'd generally love to hear from you. You can reach out anytime at bravingthebrightside at gmail.com, or find me on Instagram at braving underscore the bright side. And if you've got a story you feel called to share, well, maybe your voice is one we need to hear on this show. Thank you for spending a little time on the bright side with me today. Until next time, keep braving it. One step, one sunrise, one honest conversation, and one truth at a time. I'll see you later.