🎙️Nalee's Hypothetical Hotline - Episode 3 - The Promotion Pact (AUDIO ONLY)🎙️

In this episode of Nalee’s Hypothetical Hotline, we step into the workplace gray area nobody likes to talk about until it’s happening to them.

What do you do when loyalty to a friend collides with a career opportunity you didn’t ask for—but can’t ignore? When one friend turns down the job and the other says yes… is that betrayal, ambition, or just life doing what it does?

This conversation breaks down the unspoken rules of friendship at work, the pressure to advocate for people you care about, and the guilt that creeps in when your growth doesn’t match someone else’s timeline. We talk about support that’s genuine versus support that’s performative, and how validation doesn’t always look the way we expect it to.

There’s no villain here—just complicated feelings, ethical gray zones, and the reality that doing what’s right for yourself can still hurt someone you love.

Takeaways you’ll chew on:

* Loyalty doesn’t always mean self-sacrifice
* Career growth and friendship don’t follow the same timeline
* Advocacy has limits—and that’s okay
* Real support doesn’t disappear just because outcomes differ

It’s uncomfortable. It’s honest. And it’s one of those hypotheticals that feels a little too real.

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 Unfiltered. Unapologetic. Unhinged (just a bit).

Hosted by Nalee & Anthony—this is your safe, spicy space to spiral. Expect adult content, hot takes, and high-functioning chaos.

And yes, we call our listeners H.O.E.S.
 (Hilarious. Over it. Emotionally unstable. Spicy.)
 It’s not an insult. It’s a hoe-mmunity.

What if we did choose chaos… but thoughtfully?

Nalee’s Hypothetical Hotline delivers advice that’s 70% emotionally intelligent, 20% petty, and 10% “please don’t actually do this.” Send in your hypotheticals that are absolutely not hypotheticals, and we’ll help you navigate your main-character energy with just enough restraint.

Growth. With seasoning.

This isn’t therapy. This isn’t mediation. This is Twin Tangents Court.

Where group chat screenshots become evidence, red flags are entered into the record, and absolutely no one leaves unjudged. From dating disasters to roommate crimes to petty indictments, we bring the gavel down with dramatic precision.

New cases drop every other Friday at 8 AM Central. Bring your receipts. Prepare for sentencing.

Just when you thought the chaos was over—Anthony and Nalee invite you to keep the tangents going. With a soft outro vibe and one last wink to the listener, this post-roll points you toward the Twin Tangents website and socials for more unfiltered content. Because if you’re still here, you clearly get it… and we love that for you.

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Transcript

The Promotion Pact Setup

NALEE 0:43

Ring ring, motherfucker. I'm just kidding. Okay. All right. Ring ring. Welcome to Nellie's Hypothetical Hotline. We are testing your morals to the max today. Alright, so today's episode is called the Promotion Pact. To set the stage, you and your best friend entered the same industry together, same company, same grind, late night studying for certifications, sharing leads, helping each other prep for reviews. You even joked that if one of you ever made it, you would the other. I don't know why I always freeze at this moment. The other would come or would bring you along as well. Five years later, a senior leadership role opens up in a different department. Your boss pulls you aside privately and offers it to you. There's higher pay, visibility, long-term security. But there's one condition. HR wants a clean break, and no one from your current team comes with you. Now, to add a little bit to that as well, your friend also works in the same department. You guys are both leads in the same department. So a week later, you find out that your friend is behind on rent and she's been quietly supporting a sick parent. They have not told you directly, but you have been hearing it through like the grapevine. So in this scenario, is loyalty a moral obligation or a situational agreement? And go. What are your thoughts?

ANTHONY 2:25

Okay, so I don't think that it's a moral obligation. Like the word obligation is what's throwing me off. But I do think it's moral to like to follow through on your promises. But the word obligation is is throwing me off because I don't feel like it's an obligation because it can't it. I mean, what if it's one of those things where it's like I'm like I want to take this position, but I can't do it without so-and-so coming with me. And the company doesn't go for it, and they fire you. Which I don't foresee a company doing that when you're a good employee. So I do have follow-up questions for you. But you were gonna say something, I'll let you continue and then Okay.

NALEE 3:18

So I was gonna say, let's put it into perspective. If it was me and you, right? Bring it back here. If it's me and you, I mean, that's probably a better situation to explain it, but it's me and you, we're both leads in the same department, and you know, technically, this could be our story. Technically, this could be our story. But yeah, and so then you get chosen to go onto this leadership role, and damn, it actually could be our situation. But I literally could. Yeah, I could. But then you find out that you've been chosen for the position. Now, would you obviously I feel like there there's some guilt. There's that laurel laurel that's the loyalty. The uh loyalty obligation or whatever, moral obligation.

ANTHONY 4:08

Speak today, can we?

NALEE 4:09

I cannot. I'm sorry, I can't speak ever. But I should get better at talking, granted that I'm a fucking like podcast host and they're listening to me talk, but it's not about me today.

ANTHONY 4:21

This is why people listen. They just listen so they can hear you like fuck up. Ask how it looks like how it looked like why you never do like that. You fuck up.

NALEE 4:32

Yeah, but yeah, what would you do in this situation?

ANTHONY 4:36

Okay, so I'm gonna I am gonna think of this entire situation as if it were me and you.

NALEE 4:41

Okay, yeah.

ANTHONY 4:42

But I am gonna ask my follow-up questions regardless of the fact that it would be me and you. Okay. So you and I work for the same company, we're both leads, and I've been offered a position to move up, but I'm I have to cut ties. They don't want anybody else, so I can't bring you.

NALEE 4:59

Yeah.

ANTHONY 4:59

So my follow-up question would be are you a good employee?

NALEE 5:03

Well, we're talking about like realistically and in this situation, yes.

ANTHONY 5:10

Are we are we talking the further Nolly, or are we talking about current place knowledge?

NALEE 5:17

No, this is it's current. So obviously, I feel like we have like this we would have the same work ethic, obviously. I wouldn't just be getting a lead position if I wasn't like showing up for it. You know what I mean? There's a reason why we're we're at where we're at. So I feel like yeah, of course, we have the same work ethics, we have the same morals, we share like similar traits.

ANTHONY 5:39

I I'm only asking because regardless of the fact that it was me and you, for this particular hypothetical, like if you had literally written it, Anthony and Nolly, these are questions that would alter or fat need to be factored in.

NALEE 5:56

Okay.

ANTHONY 5:57

Right? So, regardless of the fact that you're a lead, I would still need to know are you a lead that actually leads and jumps in and does your job and and is there to help everybody? Or are you a lead that only responds once every hour and you're never there when your team needs you? It facts matter, right?

NALEE 6:20

Oh yeah.

ANTHONY 6:20

So assuming that it's me and you, we're both leads, you have the same work ethic, the same drive, the same everything as me, or at least near, right? I would like to think that either way, regardless of who was getting a new position between you and I, that we would support each other regardless of any packs that we've made.

NALEE 6:48

Okay.

ANTHONY 6:48

But with that being said, knowing how well that we work together, I would definitely push with HR and ex, you know, explain like, hey, this is what Nolly brings to the table. This is what I bring to the table. I understand that you don't want to bring anybody from the current team, but I would like to formally request that this one person, you, come along with me only because I think I would, you know, I would explain what I think that we would be able to offer together in for me in this new role to my new team.

NALEE 7:28

Okay. I see you.

ANTHONY 7:32

But with that being said, if it's a hard line and it's a hard no, and that's the way that HR is giving it to me, I definitely would ask, you know, for a day to not think it all over, but to evaluate the entire situation. And I would use that time to have a conversation with you because again, I I think that at the end of the day, regardless of who moves up, we're gonna support each other, right?

NALEE 8:04

Okay, yeah, yeah.

ANTHONY 8:05

And a follow-up question for you is in this new senior role, would I have any hiring power? Because it could, this in my mind, analyzing it, this could potentially be a loophole where I'm saying, okay, I won't bring anybody from this team with me. And then I get over there, I clean things up, I clean house, I figure out, are we lacking, are we missing anything? Who knows? Maybe I'll be able to create a position that once it's posted, you know, I get on my little phone, I say, hey, Nolly, we're creating, I'm having this position created for my team with you in mind. Make sure to apply for it. And then if I have any hiring control, obviously I would lean towards you. And so it's kind of a loophole. Like I'm not bringing you with me, but when a position is opened on my team that you can inter apply for, interview for, and I have say in as to who gets the job. That's what's wink.

NALEE 9:11

That's what's up. I think I winked with the wrong eye and I turned the wrong side, but whatever.

ANTHONY 9:17

But um what they say, when you wink with the wrong eye.

NALEE 9:20

I don't know. Is that a thing? Or are you just kidding?

ANTHONY 9:23

You've never heard that saying?

NALEE 9:24

Like, no, I can't, I can't even wink properly.

ANTHONY 9:27

It's about when you like fucking no.

NALEE 9:29

I'm not gonna about embarrass myself right now.

ANTHONY 9:32

Like when you drop the soap in the shower or something, and you bend over, you wink.

NALEE 9:38

Ah, got it. So that is a singing. You didn't make that up.

ANTHONY 9:42

No. Yeah, I say that all the time.

NALEE 9:44

When you blink blink with the wrong eye, when you wink with the wrong eye.

ANTHONY 9:48

I say, are you winking at me? Like when somebody bends over, I'm like, Are you winking at me?

NALEE 9:54

I hate you. Of course you would. Okay. So I love your answer. I think I think that's exactly what I would do too in this situation where I'm like, you know, thank you for the offer. Obviously, you know, if if you need to draw a line of like you take it or leave it kind of a thing, obviously, I would hope that you take the opportunity. Like, let's just say if you were offered the position, I would hope that you would take it. I would hope, you know, that you would take it and be like, hey, also though, by the way, you know, I have this, I work with this other amazing person, you know, they're A, B, C, and D, you know, and I think they would be a great asset to the team. But I agree with you. I think if you and your friend, you know, let's just put it in the situation, you and I, we have so much in common. You know, we work, we have the same work ethic. Even if I don't get it, or even if you aren't offered it, I would support you in any way. I would be like, I'm so happy for you, regardless of my current situation. I think if you don't advocate for your friend or you don't advocate for whoever your yeah, your friend in this situation, I think there's a bigger thing that you need to look into. Like if you there's some kind of jealousy or if there's any issue that arises, I think you need to look a little bit deeper into that. But in this situation, I would hope that if you were offered the position, you would take it, but at the same time advocate for your friend.

ANTHONY 11:27

Yes, a hundred percent.

NALEE 11:29

Yeah.

ANTHONY 11:29

Now, I just want to say for anybody listening, like, I'm not a fan of nepotism.

NALEE 11:37

Same. And I know it's what is nepotism for those who don't know. What is nepotism?

ANTHONY 11:41

What is your nepotism is at least my understanding of nepotism is hiring based on who you know. Like, oh, my cousin who just lost their job last week, I'm gonna hire you because you need a job. Or my best friend, I'm gonna hire you. And I'm gonna, you know, see if I can get you this salary or whatever. Like hiring people that you know who you're high, you're you're bringing along and you're hiring solely because you know them, not based on what they're able to provide or their work experience or their work ethic. And so it may sound hypocritical saying that, like, hey, I'm gonna try and bring you with me if I get this role. A major factor. And the reason that I asked you was, are you a good employee? I wouldn't be doing that if I'm gonna throw you under the bus right now, and I'm saying this with love. But like, if it was further gnarly, this bitch, listeners, I'll tell you, she had it down to a T. Friday off, Saturday, Sunday, Monday off.

NALEE 12:46

Like, I don't know how she managed to make it work, but I'm like, if if you're calling in, I will gladly admit, yeah, I was working the system.

ANTHONY 12:57

Like, I mean, like I wouldn't say that you were working the system, but you were very strategic in how you used your stick time.

NALEE 13:07

Yes, that's but that doesn't and yeah, I completely agree with that. I'm not saying that I was like the best employee or innocent.

Advocacy, HR Limits, And Loopholes

ANTHONY 13:17

But you were a good employee. Yeah, I would have to be able to get it. When you were there, you worked.

NALEE 13:22

Yes. I was like, but I'm just saying, like those are things that I would factor in. Yeah, when it came to attendance, baby girl definitely need improvement on that. But that was like in the earlier years. I think like the last couple of years after that, I just wanted to advocate for myself that I wasn't that bad. I was a good employee.

ANTHONY 13:42

In in the last couple of years when we were at the further, you like it in addition to you like being sick, you had a lot of family things going on. So it wasn't like it wasn't anything that I would hold against you by any means. And and you had this, you had the sick time, you had the PTO, you earned it, you use it. That's fine. I get it. But it's a matter of like now, and I'm not even referring to you, I'm just referring in general. Like, would I bring a friend who excessively overuses you know, PTO or sick time, or are constantly calling in or last minute, like I I get really one of my pet peeves is being like, oh, I have an appointment tomorrow. I'm gonna need off tomorrow. Like little things like that. If you're not showing up for work and you're not pulling your weight when you are at work, regardless of whether or not you're my best friend, and this is where the whole nepotism comes in, I'm not going to try to bring you with me.

NALEE 14:51

Yeah, I think that's fair though. Cause I'm the same way. Like, if I have a friend who, again, if it's my best friend in the world, but like you call it if it was me against the further Nali, yeah, that bitch is out. Like, I ain't advocating for you at all.

ANTHONY 15:09

See, and I love that you can acknowledge that and that you own up to it.

NALEE 15:13

Yeah, I mean, bitch, I own up to my shit. It's called growth.

ANTHONY 15:17

So you wouldn't hold it against me? Let's okay, I wanna I want to throw a hypothetical at you right now.

NALEE 15:21

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

ANTHONY 15:23

Okay, so best friends.

NALEE 15:25

Okay.

ANTHONY 15:26

I get this position from your hypothetical.

NALEE 15:29

Okay.

ANTHONY 15:30

And HR tells me, so they're no longer saying we don't want to bring anybody from the team, but we're allowing you to create and assemble your own team. And let's say you were 2017 Nolly, but we have the relationship that we have today.

NALEE 15:47

Yeah.

ANTHONY 15:48

And I didn't bring you onto my team, you wouldn't hold it against me, you wouldn't have any resentment.

NALEE 15:54

Okay. That's a very good question. I uh I like that situation. I think the fair thing to or what to what I would do in that situation is I would definitely pitch the idea to you, but I would also mention that, hey, like if I find a more let's see, in a more a more appropriate candidate, don't take it like no hard feelings. Like, don't take offense to if somebody else gets the position. Because I think that I and I'm gonna speak for myself because I'm I'm on both sides. If 2017 further Nolly and I were to get put in a position, same relationship right now. I think 2017 Nolly would understand that, okay, you know what? I'm a shit employee. I ain't gonna even blame you if I don't get hired for that position. You know what I mean? But I don't know about other people. I don't know about other people, but that's me admitting, honestly. I think I would be like, eh, it's such that I didn't get it, but I understand why. Like, I see why. You know what I mean? I and if I see somebody else, obviously who's more qualified, that's the word I was looking for, who was more qualified for the position and they got it, I'd be like, eh, good for you. Like, good for you. You know what I mean? Because I think this is something that I've come to realize as well. I think at that time, my job wasn't as important to me as it is now. So, you know, when I called in or, you know, when I would when I had like appointments and stuff, my main priority was not job. My main priority was not like, if this job fires me, bitch, I can find another one. I think that was my mindset at that time. But after maturing and, you know, becoming an actual adult, realizing that you have responsibilities and stuff, you learn to appreciate your job. You learn to appreciate the position you're in. You learn to, you know, just mold yourself into that. And I think you find your footing, and then that's when your mind kind of switches, like, oh shit, like I need to take this job seriously. Or, you know, if I lose this job, I seriously could be living on the streets, you know? So I think that's kind of where the switch is. But yeah, if if it's in that scenario where 2017 Nolly was not offered the position, and obviously you were my best friend and you didn't pull me in, or you're like, uh, I don't know. I wouldn't blame you at all. Because I think you have to understand and take accountability for the type of worker that you are. And at that time, again, if I was an employer, bitch, I wouldn't even fuck to hire me either. I'd be like, let me see your past history, please. You know? Yeah. So because honestly, like oh, go ahead.

ANTHONY 19:38

No, oh no, go ahead.

NALEE 19:40

Oh, I was just gonna probably repeat what I just said, but you learned the importance of a job. You learned the importance of your role, and I think when you find a job where you feel like you know what you're doing and you know your shit, it becomes more valuable to you. So, yeah.

ANTHONY 19:59

Yeah, I agree with that, and I think speaking for myself, one of my biggest frust frustrations, and I think that you saw this previously, was it was a little like salt in the wound when I cared so much about my job and my role and didn't reap any rewards, and then seeing others reap rewards who were not the best employees. So we're kind of getting off your hypothetical here, but that's okay.

NALEE 20:39

That's okay. I I completely understand that situation too, though. Like the thing is, here's the thing.

ANTHONY 20:48

The thing is, here's the thing.

NALEE 20:50

I have that drilled into me, and I need to stop saying that.

ANTHONY 20:52

But put that on a t-shirt.

unknown 20:55

Yeah.

Merit, Nepotism, And Standards

NALEE 20:56

But here's the thing. The thing is, when you put your heart and your soul and all your ideas, your creativity, your motivation into your job, and then you try your best, you come every day, put your best foot forward, and then you find out that Sally Sue here gets a promotion because I don't know, she's I don't know, she sucked somebody's dick. I don't fucking know. But she clearly didn't deserve the job. You know, I'd be pissed at Sally Sue too, because I'd be like, you didn't deserve this job. Like I put in, you know, I put in all this effort and stuff like that in. But at the same time though, I think that's an indicator to you that I'm not, I'm not appreciated here. The work, the effort that I put in. Thousand percent here. Because I think when you are, regardless of the company if it's big or small, I think when you have upper management who and I could speak on this because, you know, like personal experience, like when you have management who actually advocates for you, or they let you know that, hey, I appreciate you. You do this and this and this and this for me, it motivates you compared to a team or leadership where they're just like, oh, yay, good job, everybody. They don't like point you out. And I think that's something that people feel like it's so taboo. But when somebody earns their stars, you need to be like, hey, y'all, Anthony over here, he did this and this and this. Let's congratulate him. People don't do that, or companies don't really do that, or I guess companies that we've worked at don't really do that. But when you're in an environment where they're constantly saying, hey, Nellie did this, or Anthony did this, let's congratulate them, and everybody does it. You feel like I you feel rewarded. You feel accomplished, you feel like you belong to it.

ANTHONY 22:49

Contributing, you're an asset.

NALEE 22:52

Right.

ANTHONY 22:53

Yeah.

NALEE 22:53

So I would hate Sally Sue too if that bitch took my job or she applied for a position that she didn't deserve, you know. And to your point, I I definitely agree with that. Like, I don't think the reason why you built resentment isn't just because you woke up one day and decided to hate everybody or decided to hate your job. I think it builds up over time. And uh knowing you, I know that you didn't go out without saying anything. I'm sure you're like, hey, can I do this? Or what can I do? Like Like, you know, like you shared your ideas and stuff, but it just wasn't seen. And that's one of the things, too, is you feel seen when people congratulate you or they point out what you've done. You feel seen as an employee. And I think that's what employers need to do more is they need to see their employees to motivate them, you know?

ANTHONY 23:47

Yeah. I agree with that. And we can totally tangent off on this because I have so many things that I could like talk about and add on.

NALEE 23:56

Yeah.

ANTHONY 23:57

But I'm going to drive us, I'm going to steer us back to your hypothetical.

NALEE 24:01

Okay. So I did have a twist. Here's the twist. Okay. So just to recap what we said, you would take the position, but you would also advocate for your friend. You want to find out if you have hiring power and potentially pull them in if they were a candidate for the position, right? Yes. Okay. So the twist here is HR later reveals that your friend actually personally recommended you for the role, assuming you'd advocate for them once you've had the leverage. So technically, you've already solved the twist, I guess. So there's no really twist. Look at you, boo. That's how Anthony's.

ANTHONY 24:43

Thinking ahead, analytical, baby.

NALEE 24:46

All right. Now I do have some other questions to follow up with, though. Because you've already we've already talked about the twist there. Let's just say now, if you turned down the position, right? You turn you turned on the position and then they offered me the job and I took it.

ANTHONY 25:05

What would you feel? Can I interrupt you? Why am I turning down the position?

NALEE 25:09

Just so I have a full aspect of Because you felt that that obligation, the moral obligation to be like, nah, like it's not fair. I don't want to be in this mess. And then I took the position.

ANTHONY 25:23

And I was told that you couldn't come with even after I advocated for you. Okay.

NALEE 25:27

Right. And then I decided to take the position. What are your feelings, or do you feel like, you know, how would you feel about that situation?

ANTHONY 25:37

Have you and I had a conversation prior to you accepting it and prior to me turning it down?

NALEE 25:42

Let's do both scenarios. Let's say if I didn't talk to you and then it was the same day. They were, we didn't get a talk. It was the same day. They were like, okay, well, he if he turns this down, we're gonna offer it to her next. And then my boss pulls me aside and does the same thing. And I end up taking the job. How would you feel?

ANTHONY 25:59

If we excuse me, if we haven't talked and had a conversation and I turned it down because I was face to face with HR, and they said that I couldn't bring you with me, blah, blah, blah. And then they turned around and offered it to you and you accepted it, I would probably be a little butthurt internally, but I would be extremely happy for you and proud for you.

NALEE 26:28

Okay.

ANTHONY 26:30

Proud of you. Yeah.

NALEE 26:31

Okay. Now let's say uh go ahead. I was gonna say, let's say if we talked and I take the position.

ANTHONY 26:37

Now let's say they offered me the position and I had the conversation with you. I I they offered me the position. I said, hey, can I just have another day? I just want to, you know, evaluate things and have this conversation. And I had the conversation with you, and I was like, I'm gonna turn it down because they're very adamant. They're saying that I can't bring anybody with me. They don't want any ties from the current team, and I'm gonna turn it down. And then I went in there the next day and turned it down, and then by the end of the day, you had been called into their office and they offered it to you and you accepted accepted it.

NALEE 27:16

Mm-hmm.

ANTHONY 27:18

They'd be, girl, we're about to find out what it's like when the devil walks earth. Shit will hit the fan.

NALEE 27:27

Okay, okay. I see how good.

ANTHONY 27:30

And I don't think that you would ever do this.

NALEE 27:34

We'll see. But I think that that would definitely never walk the earth.

ANTHONY 27:38

I definitely think that that would say something about you and our friendship. That, you know, we went into this having this pact. I had the conversation with you saying, I'm gonna turn this down. They're very adamant that I can't bring you with me, and that there's not gonna be any, you know, opportunity for you to work with me over here, and then you turn around and you shake it?

NALEE 28:01

And I just take it.

ANTHONY 28:03

I I'd be a little pissed.

NALEE 28:05

Okay. What would you say to me?

ANTHONY 28:07

I don't know. I'd have to be in the I'd have to be in the heat of the moment.

NALEE 28:11

Stupid fucking bitch.

ANTHONY 28:13

Would you what about you? Would you be pissed if the roles were reverse and that happened?

NALEE 28:18

So to bring it down for the first situation, citenario. I don't know why I want to say situation I like that word, citenario. Yeah, but in this situation, um, so the first one was that we didn't have a talk, and then you turned it down and I ex or I turned it down and then you accepted it. Yeah, I think I would be like, God damn it, I should have just taken it, you know what I mean?

ANTHONY 28:43

Yeah. Hindsight's 2020.

NALEE 28:45

Yeah, but then I'd be like, hey, you know what? I cannot see any anybody else who deserves this position other than me. You deserve it. Really well deserving, yeah. And then I'd be like, bitch, you better pull me in when there's a position available.

ANTHONY 28:58

Period.

NALEE 28:59

So that's how I would deal with that. But if we talked about it and I said, hey, like, I'm taking this job because they don't want us to work together or whatever the fuck the situation is, and you go ahead and take the position, child. The devil always collects, baby.

ANTHONY 29:18

Period. That's I like that saying even better. The devil always collects.

NALEE 29:22

Yes. The devil will always collect, and bitch, I'm coming for you. No, not really. But I think I would be, I would be very hurt. I would be like, what the fuck, dude? Like, that's fucked up. You know, I previously.

ANTHONY 29:34

It's kind of backstabbing.

NALEE 29:36

No, it is a thousand percent backstabbing. Yeah, it's not cleaning.

ANTHONY 29:40

As soon as I said it, I was like, it's not even kind of.

NALEE 29:42

Like if we talked about it and I'm like, hey, I didn't take it just because of you, and then you go ahead and have the upper hand take it. Nah, bitch. Like, oh, so you was not my friend. You were my enemy. But again, like I said, the devil always collects, baby. But I think in this scenario, I don't think we would ever do that to each other.

ANTHONY 30:04

I don't know. You talk to me all about all these grand things happening to you, and I'm over here like, what grand things?

NALEE 30:12

Excuse me.

ANTHONY 30:12

I'm just kidding. I don't know. I'm making shit up.

NALEE 30:15

No, don't lie. Um, but yeah.

ANTHONY 30:19

No, I would never do that to you.

Recognition, Resentment, And Culture

NALEE 30:21

Yeah, I think if we were in this position, like in a s like in this scenario, I would still advocate and be like, hey, you know, we work very well together. There's a reason why I'm not I don't want to take this position. Not because she's my best friend, yes, that's a reason why, but that's not why. It's because we're both equally what's that stupid word that I used again? We're both equally qualified for the position. And it would be a it'd be a hindrance, a dishonor, not a dishonor, but kind of.

ANTHONY 31:49

Well, it would because it's if both people would be advantageous and assets to the team need like this role is being part of.

NALEE 32:01

Yeah.

ANTHONY 32:01

Why would you not want that?

NALEE 32:03

Exactly. There's not it's not dishonor. There's a word that I'm looking for, but I guess I could use dishonor, but it'd be it, they'd oh, disservice to the company is what I'm trying to say. Yeah, it'd be a disservice to the company for not thinking strategically, like, oh, if these people work really well together, why can't we just like create a position for the both of them? You know what I mean? Because now that I think about it, it's actually really easy for companies to create positions if they actually really wanted to. It's the if they wanted, they would kind of situation. You know what I mean?

ANTHONY 32:36

Yes, a thousand percent yes.

NALEE 32:40

Yeah.

ANTHONY 32:40

So I think what happens though is I think that it is a matter of money, right? Because if they're looking to fill this role and they want me in this role, but it's eighty thousand dollars a year salary, you think that they're gonna want to bring in a second person so that they can pay two people eighty thousand dollars a year salary?

NALEE 33:00

Well, obviously not. But if they're like fucking creating the cure for cancer and shit, and the both of them are doing that, yeah, why not? You know what I mean?

ANTHONY 33:12

Like I get that there is I get that there are business reasons for things, but and again, this is what I was trying to stay away from earlier. I'm not saying that I have all the answers, but it does seem from the businesses that I've worked with, it doesn't seem like there's always a lot of what's the word I want to use here. Business smarts.

NALEE 33:39

Okay.

ANTHONY 33:40

I feel like it lacks in a lot of like corporate business places. And one thing one hill that I will die on is that most companies, not all, most companies and corporations don't seem to understand the definition of efficiency. Oh, I'm not gonna even it's literally like here is the definition of efficiency, and they are heading for the fucking hills, and they're like, nope, don't want any part of that. We're gonna do it this way. But again, that's I don't want to tangent off. That's something we can discuss in an episode if you want, but yeah, I think that there are ways to work strategically, efficiently, and smart enough that it will be a better outcome for a business and for everybody.

NALEE 34:42

Okay, yeah, and I agree. I definitely agree with that. Okay, so I have two, two more follow-up questions, and then we could close it. But so let's talk about the scenario where you turn down the position, right? Do you think this is due to like your ethics or is it more self-sabotaging?

ANTHONY 35:05

The fact that I turned it down. I think it's a little bit of both, to be honest with you, because we know each other. You know that like I'm not happy being, and no offense to anybody out there who who is like this, but like I'm not happy just being, you know, a button pusher or lower on the hierarchy of of business. I my goal, even at my my middle age, my goal is to climb the corporate ladder. I want to be the top. I want to be the best. I want to be the best that I can be, and I want to help whatever company that I'm working for be the best company it can be and bring in that revenue and bring in the profits and and make change and make a difference. So for me to be to turn down an opportunity like that, I think is self-sabotaging. But also my grandma didn't raise me to you know be a bad guy or to discount other people. Like I was I was raised to keep to my promises. Like so if we have that conversation and we have that mutual understanding, that is gonna weigh in the back of my he mind, like, you know?

NALEE 36:25

Yeah. Okay. I like your answer.

ANTHONY 36:30

Thank you. What about you?

NALEE 36:31

Yeah, I think I think it's more self-sabotaging than it is ethical, like your ethics and stuff like that, because and I'm gonna be very honest. If you were to put in if you were to be put in this situation, and if you didn't accept the role, honestly I'd be like, what the hell are you doing? Like I know you could consider your friend, I understand that. But it comes back to what you're saying where you wanna be the very best. You want to be at the top, you want to make sure that your your opinions matter, you want to make change, you want to make sure that you're doing the very best you can for business needs, you know, for the company. So I would regardless of if it's your ethics or not, I think realistically, at the end of the day, everybody does put themselves first. And if they do in this situation, I think it's unfair for the friend to be upset at you for deciding what's best for you, you know. And the thing is that you were you were offered, you were offered that position for a reason. Your boss push pushed you. Oh my god, I guess.

ANTHONY 37:48

Puss Puss you. Your boss pussed you.

NALEE 37:51

Yeah, your boss pussed you. They took you aside and say, hey, do you want this or not? There's a reason for that. So I think when you take when you think about when you're second guessing yourself about, hey, like, what would my friend think? Or am I doing this? Am I being, you know, am I going the wrong path? No, you're not. Because you earned it. You deserve it. Yes, of course, your your morals, your ethics are gonna play a role. But when that comes, it's the part of you not rubbing it in their face and saying, hey, I got this, or yeah, I got this position. What about you? That's where it comes in. But when it comes to jobs or when it comes to involving your livelihood or, you know, having more money or again, more stability, I think it's okay in this situation to be selfish. It's okay for you to be like, yeah, I earned it. Of course, I'm gonna take the position. Now, if you turn it down, I personally think that's self-sabotaging because you're allowing all these thoughts, all these things to defer you from actually getting to your best potential, your highest potential. So, in my opinion, I feel like that's self-sabotaging more than the ethical part of it.

The Twist And Trust Boundaries

ANTHONY 39:09

I agree with that. I can see where you're coming from on that.

NALEE 39:12

Yeah. Um it doesn't make me a bad person, you know. It doesn't make me a horrible person just because we're equally qualified, but at the same time, it's kind of the thing of I was offered this position at my own, like, I can't think of the words. I can't talk today. Like, I made it pretty much. This is mine, and it was offered to me. So I have every right to take that opportunity. I have every right to decide that this is for me.

ANTHONY 39:44

So and one thing that I want to say is it's not like, and I feel like not a lot of people do this, but like when companies you interview for a position and companies offer you a job, I feel like a lot of people are apt to be like, yep, I accept it. I've learned, and I've I've well, not that I've had that many jobs in the last 10 years, but like I've learned that when a position is offered to me, I will do like I said, I'll be like, Can I have the next day to think about it? Yeah. And then I would use that day to have that conversation with you. And I think what you had said would be exactly what I wanted to hear. Like, I would have a con sit down, have a conversation with you, and be like, hey, they offered me this job. I don't know if I want to take it. Low-key, I would be expecting you as my friend to be like, what the hell's wrong with you? What are you thinking?

NALEE 40:40

Let's take it. Yeah.

ANTHONY 40:42

And I think that that would be the validation and the the the green light to accept the position that I the the validation that I needed to accept that position. And that would probably remove, you know, any doubt or question in my mind.

NALEE 40:58

Yeah. And I think in a friendship dynamic where that happens, that's all you can ask for. That you support me. And, you know, that it's I think that's the thing where people kind of mix up like, I don't know, jealousy or limelight or whatever. But just because I'm I'm getting I'm getting my share of my success doesn't mean that you are not gonna get it. So just because my time is now doesn't mean that you can't support me. You can't be like, oh my God, go for it. I don't know what you're doing. I don't know what you're doing. Like I feel like some people are so so quick to be like, are you sure though? Like, are you prepared for this? Like, you know what I mean?

ANTHONY 41:48

So And I don't need people saying that to me because I'm always asking myself that am I ready for this? Is this something that I can do?

NALEE 41:55

Exactly. So I think specifically because I think in this scenario, it it's talking about, you know, should you put your career first before your friends? A thousand percent. Because your friends has nothing to do with your career, but to be in support of it. So that's what do we say? The devil always collects.

ANTHONY 42:16

If they're not feeding me, oh yeah, fucking me and they're not financing me, move the fuck along. I mean exactly it you you the friends don't necessarily need to move the move the fuck along, but like you're not paying my bills. Yeah. I'm paying my bills. I have my own things that I need to take into consideration.

NALEE 42:36

Right. And the fact that, you know, like if you were going through, you know, if you were going through a really hard time on your own, and that's a factor of me choosing this job or not, like I get it. You don't the thing the thing is, here's the thing is, here's the thing. We've talked about this is the reason why I brought up niceness and kindness, okay? You can be nice by thinking, okay, you know what? My friend deserves his position too. But you could be kind by saying, hey, you earned this though. Or let me word it differently. You could be nice by saying, oh yeah, like I'm really, I'm really proud of you, but you know, are you ready for this? Is this something you're prepared for? Compared to being a kind person, being honest, and saying, hey, I don't think you may be prepared for this, but you deserve this. You need right, you need this, you know. But I don't know. I think being like putting yourself in both situations, I think you should just be in support of whatever it is, whether you're on the flip side and saying, hey, I got this position, I didn't want to like offend you or anything, but you know, I I would appreciate your support. I would appreciate you helping me see this through, or, you know, just encourage me and remind me that I deserve this. And being on the flip side of being the friend, all you need to do is just say, hey, you know what? Whether you take this job or not, I think you deserve it. If you don't think you're qualified, you learn qualifications. You earn those qualifications and you just be in support of them. That's that's all you can really do. And a friendship, I think that's all encompassing of what friendship is is I'm gonna support you no matter the fuck, if you're crazy, if you're insane, if you do stupid shit, whether it's good or bad, I'm gonna support you because I know that you are my best friend. And I know that sometimes when I'm in my crazy era, you all I want you to do is support me, you know, and same thing as in career, same thing as in personal life growth, whatever. But I think that's the ultimate job as a friend is to show support, whether it's good or bad.

ANTHONY 44:46

Yeah, I agree with that, and not just telling people what they want to hear.

NALEE 44:50

Exactly. Damn, this this conversation got deep. But that's yeah, I think the best thing you can do as a friend is just to support them overall with this situation.

ANTHONY 45:05

Why do you laugh? I love that word.

NALEE 45:08

Because I'm putting situation and scenario in one word, and it annoys the hell out of me because I can't decide what word I want to say because they're both equally perfect.

ANTHONY 45:18

You just made up your own word, and I love it.

NALEE 45:20

I know. Situ. But yeah, I think Yeah, yeah. All right. My last question here. So that was my uh second to last, but do you think that fairness? Okay, let me rephrase this. Is fairness about equal opportunity or equal outcome?

ANTHONY 45:40

Wait, what? Fairness?

NALEE 45:42

Fairness. Like, is it fair for me? Is it fair for you? I might be pronouncing it weird.

ANTHONY 45:47

Oh, fairness.

NALEE 45:49

Fairness. What did I say? Fairness?

ANTHONY 45:51

I thought you said fairness. I'm like, what?

NALEE 45:54

I don't know. Fairness. Okay, fairness. I R N E S S. Fairness.

ANTHONY 46:01

Can you use it in a sentence, please? No, can you re free re say the question?

NALEE 46:06

Okay. Is fairness about equal opportunity or equal outcome?

ANTHONY 46:11

Equal opportunity. Everybody deserves the same right. Not everybody deserves the same outcome, though. Like everybody should have the chance to apply for this position. But not everybody should get the position.

NALEE 46:24

Period. Mic drop. I agree. Boom. That's what's up. That's what's up. That's what's up.

unknown 46:34

All right.

NALEE 46:35

Well, that's pretty much it for me. That's our scenario. Sictionario today. Sichenario.

ANTHONY 46:41

I love it.

NALEE 46:42

So yeah, guys, tell us what your thoughts are. Would you turn that to a job for your friend or would you accept it? What are your thoughts? Hmm. All right. Well, that's it for me. Come back in two weeks for the next Not Lee's hypothetical hotline. And we will see you then. Bye.