🎙️Am I the Villain… or Did I Just Finally Go to Therapy? (AUDIO ONLY)🎙️

🦹‍♀️ Am I the Villain… or Did I Just Finally Go to Therapy?

Sometimes choosing yourself looks like growth.
 Sometimes it looks like ghosting.
 And sometimes… it looks like you becoming the villain in someone else’s story.

This week on Twin Tangents, Anthony and Nalee unpack the messy reality of boundaries, therapy language, and the emotional chaos that comes with finally deciding you’re done tolerating things.

Because apparently the moment you choose peace…
 someone somewhere decides you’re the problem.

👉 Audio listeners: if you want to see the facial expressions behind the side-eye, sarcasm, and silent judgment, head over to our YouTube channel to watch this episode.

We’re talking:

🧠 Therapy language vs. real life → “protecting your peace,” “boundaries,” and when self-awareness becomes a weapon
 👻 Ghosting after therapy → growth or avoidance? choosing yourself or dodging hard conversations
 🚩 Calling people narcissistic → real psychology vs. internet buzzwords during disagreements
 ✂️ Friendship breakups → when cutting someone off is necessary… and when communication should come first
 🗣️ Apologies with an audience → saying sorry to look mature vs. actually taking accountability
 😈 Petty vs. peaceful → the thin line between healing and wanting karma to absolutely handle it
 📱 Subliminal posts vs. direct conversations → vague social media shade or grown-up communication
 ⚖️ Villain era energy → when choosing yourself means accepting you won’t be liked by everyone

This episode dives into the complicated reality of relationships, emotional growth, and the uncomfortable truth that healing isn’t always graceful.

Sometimes it’s messy.
 Sometimes it’s petty.
 Sometimes it’s necessary.

Quick disclaimer: Therapy language will be used, misused, and possibly weaponized. We’re learning in real time.

It’s reflective, chaotic, and just self-aware enough to admit we’re all a little toxic sometimes.

🎙️ Motto of the week:
 Choosing yourself might make you the villain…
 but at least the villain has boundaries.

⚠️ Twin Tangents: Because Therapy Was Booked ⚠️
 Unfiltered. Unapologetic. Unhinged (just a bit).

Hosted by Nalee & Anthony—this is your safe, spicy space to spiral. Expect adult content, hot takes, and high-functioning chaos.

And yes, we call our listeners H.O.E.S.
 (Hilarious. Over it. Emotionally unstable. Spicy.)
 It’s not an insult. It’s a hoe-mmunity.

If you can turn a three-word text into a 45-minute psychological breakdown… welcome home.

Nalee’s Hypothetical Hotline exists for the people who rehearse arguments in the shower and lose sleep over imaginary conversations. Submit your spirals. We’ll spiral louder. And with microphones.

Because if we’re overthinking, we’re doing it professionally.

Love drama but hate being involved in it? Perfect.

Twin Tangents Court is our fast-paced spin-off where we judge everyone so you don’t have to. Dating disasters. Friendship felonies. Domestic disturbances. We try the case. We deliver the verdict.

New episodes drop every other Friday at 8 AM Central. Bring your coffee. Bring your screenshots. Court is now in session.

Pride Month isn’t just glitter and hashtags—it’s visibility, safety, and unapologetic joy. In our “Rainbow, But Make It Real” segment, we’re cutting through the rainbow capitalism to spotlight real stories, real love, and real respect. Whether you're out, questioning, or just vibing in your truth—we see you, we celebrate you, and we’re here for the real Pride. 🏳️‍🌈💖✨

Just when you thought the chaos was over—Anthony and Nalee invite you to keep the tangents going. With a soft outro vibe and one last wink to the listener, this post-roll points you toward the Twin Tangents website and socials for more unfiltered content. Because if you’re still here, you clearly get it… and we love that for you.

🎙️ Stay connected with Twin Tangents Because Therapy Was Booked
Unfiltered. Unexpected. Unbothered.

🌐 Website: www.twintangentspodcast.com
All our socials, episodes, and contact info live here.

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Transcript

Are We The Villain Or Just Healing?

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

ANTHONY 0:55

Okay. Be honest. Who here has said I'm protecting my peace? But low-key, you were just avoiding a hard conversation.

NALEE 1:04

Okay, not you clocking them in the first 10 seconds.

ANTHONY 1:07

I'm just saying we've all weaponized therapy words at least once.

NALEE 1:11

Yes. Boundaries, triggers, gaslighting. Suddenly everyone has a degree on TikTok University, including me.

ANTHONY 1:21

Exactly. TikTok TikTok is the new university everybody goes to. Meanwhile, somewhere out there, someone has a villain origin story. And your name is in bold.

NALEE 1:32

Today we are asking, can you be the villain in someone else's story and still be a good person?

ANTHONY 1:39

Or are we just toxic with vocabulary?

NALEE 1:42

Probably that.

ANTHONY 1:43

Yeah.

NALEE 1:44

But, anyways, welcome back. You've been here. You know we don't do surface level.

ANTHONY 1:50

We spiral. Typically responsibly, but not always.

NALEE 1:54

Period. On-brand as hell. Period.

ANTHONY 1:57

On brand as hell.

NALEE 1:58

Okay. But let's start with this. No one thinks they're the villain.

ANTHONY 2:02

Villains always think they're justified in their actions.

NALEE 2:06

Exactly. Sometimes your villain era started the day you stopped tolerating bullshit.

ANTHONY 2:12

And sometimes it started the day that you sent that long paragraph.

NALEE 2:16

That paragraph changes lives for better or for worst. For worst.

ANTHONY 2:21

For worst. I want to bra worst.

NALEE 2:24

Oh my god, I was just thinking that. That sounds so good. Okay. All right. So our first segment is the villain arc nobody warns you about. So what I wanted to talk about was ghosting someone after therapy because you quote unquote outgrew them. What are your thoughts on that?

ANTHONY 2:42

I I think it's become very common. I'm pretty sure that I'm guilty of that at some point in my life. I don't think that it's right.

unknown 2:53

Okay.

ANTHONY 2:53

I think that everybody deserves some form of closure, especially if you're going to be ghosting them. But I also at the same time, I feel like it depends on the relationship.

Ghosting After Therapy vs Closure

NALEE 3:01

Okay.

ANTHONY 3:01

Right? So like I have friends that like, we've talked about this before. I have friends that I might only see once every year or every couple years when they're driving through, they moved away. We still keep in touch, but we're not like best friends.

NALEE 3:17

Yeah.

ANTHONY 3:18

So like if I were going to therapy and I went through this entire big, I had this big epiphany on like really focusing on things that serve me and my life. Yes, I'm gonna love this friend. I I don't think it's really me ghosting them, but again, not serving my life. So, and we only see each other once a year or send the occasional happy birthday on social media. I think that that's fine. But I do think that ghosting them, depending on the relationship, there should be some form of closure. Especially if they're not doing anything. And I mean, have that difficult conversation. Like, this isn't service serving me any part of my life.

NALEE 3:59

Yeah.

ANTHONY 4:00

What are we doing?

NALEE 4:01

Right.

ANTHONY 4:02

What are your thoughts as well?

NALEE 4:04

Yeah, I agree. I agree with you. I think if you, you know, good for you for going to therapy. And I think after and this is just me speaking from experience, like going through therapy, I think you kind of you obviously learn a lot about yourself. And it really comes down to who you surround yourself with that's causing you to act a certain way or that's causing stress or whatever into your life. But I think once you determine, okay, you know what, not because this person isn't healthy, you know, for yeah, you know, not because they're not healthy for me, but you know, it's gonna better my own mindset, or if it's healthy for me to um step away from the relationship. I think you do owe them an explanation of saying, hey, you know, like it's it really isn't you, it's a me issue where I need to figure out myself and it has nothing to do with you. And maybe it does a little bit, but if it does, at least give them an explanation of like, you know, this is how I'm feeling. And, you know, it's not it's not anything that you did wrong, but it's just how I'm feeling, and it's probably better off if we do this or if I do this and step back. It's I'm not saying that we're not gonna be friends or anything, but I think you do still owe them an explanation. Reason being is they they're a part of your life. You can't just cut people off without, you know. I mean, you can, but again, that's that's kind of messed up to just cut people out of your life because you are not giving them a an opportunity to see why or what the issue is, you know?

ANTHONY 5:44

Yeah. I agree with that. And as you're talking, I'm and I'm thinking about this. I feel like we've discussed something like this before because it really made me like reflect on like some of the relationships in my life. And like I think I've made the comment before where I wonder if there are people in my life who feel like I have ghosted them, whereas I don't feel like I have.

NALEE 6:07

I don't think we have talked about this. Maybe similar.

ANTHONY 6:10

Well, I think we touched on it. Yeah, it was similar.

NALEE 6:13

Yeah. But yeah, I think because if we were to think about it like in the oppos like in the opposite mindset where I'm the one who's getting cut off and you just cut me off, I'm gonna be like, what the fuck? Like, you know, like why didn't you say anything? Or it could be the thing of like, oh, I didn't know that I was doing that to you. And you know, they have a chance to apologize or they have a chance to kind of explain that, you know. I don't know. It just gives them it's the reciprocity, I guess, for the re from the relationship.

ANTHONY 6:47

Somebody be reading Web Webster's Merriam Webster dictionary.

NALEE 6:51

Yeah, but you know what I mean? Like it's it's the me it and it's also the mutual respect. Like if I respect you, if I actually care about you, then I'm gonna I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna do that. That's my effort, that's my part in the relationship.

ANTHONY 7:08

Okay, so question for you with regarding to ghosting people.

NALEE 7:12

Okay.

ANTHONY 7:13

Do you feel like there is a very clear defined line in regards to whether or not you're ghosting somebody or whether or not, you know, for the for the purpose of this example, because you outgrew them. So is there a very clear separation of ghosting somebody versus we grew apart and you know, our paths just aren't crossing and we're just not communicating like we were?

NALEE 7:48

For sure. Because ghosting, you're just leaving them in the dark. You're just like, peace out, bye.

ANTHONY 7:52

You're just peace out.

NALEE 7:53

Right. But if you're trying to have a conversation, you're trying to be like, hey, like, you know, this just it's not that here's the thing. The thing is the thing is. Yeah, it's it's I had a train of thought and I'm stroking out right now because you said something, the second part of what you said, you I don't know if you remember it, but about growing apart and going our paths going different directions. Right. Yeah. So if you're ghosting somebody, you're just being like, bye, peace out. But if you're you're outgrowing somebody, there's some reflection in that. There's some kind of Go ahead.

ANTHONY 8:30

No, go ahead.

NALEE 8:31

There's some kind of I was gonna say there's some kind of inner work that you're trying to do. And it's not that you're just saying peace out, and you don't want to have you know, it's like you want to still have the chance of reconciliation somehow, somehow, once I don't know, maybe you figure your shit out. And if you don't, that's the k that that's what it is. But if you do, you leave that opportunity open to whereas when you are ready and when you've fixed yourself or when you've worked through it, then you could come back and be like, hey, you remember that one time when I told you that, you know, I wanted to step away. Well, now, you know, if you're willing to continue this relationship, let's talk about it. Let's, you know, let's work it out or whatever. And if that point, that person's like, nah, like, you know, I've moved on, we're on our own different paths now because I'm also on my own path, then okay, that's what it is. But it gives you that opportunity for reconciliation at that point. But whereas where you're ghosting people, you're choosing to you're choosing and you're you're allowing the risk of them not coming back into your life.

ANTHONY 9:37

Okay. That's how I feel. And I may not be around. No, I agree.

NALEE 9:40

That's how Melly sees it.

ANTHONY 9:41

I agree with that. I feel like that that makes sense because if you're cutting people off, like there's intent there, you know?

NALEE 9:47

Yeah, right.

ANTHONY 9:48

So what about in I'm just gonna give you an example here. So let's just say you and I we're really good friends, we talk every day, it is what it is. I feel all of a sudden, you know, my my path is going this other direction. I feel like we're drifting apart, we're talking less now, but you feel like I'm ghosting you. Whereas I feel our paths are just we're starting to separate, we're going different directions. Like, do you feel that I owe you some form of explanation?

NALEE 10:23

I think if we were in this situation and I feel like you're pulling away from me, I probably don't know that you're going on a different path. Or I probably don't know that you're you're going through this other thing. So I probably would approach you and be like, hey, you know, just checking in, but you've been really quiet and distant. Like, is everything okay? Yeah. And at that point, I don't think you need to really explain yourself and give me like a 10-page storybook essay, but at least be like, hey, you know, it's it's nothing in regards to our relationship. You know, I just feel like this isn't I wouldn't say this isn't something you want to pursue per se, but you're just saying that like, you know, I'm just going on my own journey right now, and as of right now, it's just not involving you. You know, and lack of better words, it's just you're processing things on your own and you know, you're you're trying to not get like outside

Growing Apart Or Cutting Off?

NALEE 11:16

validation and you're trying to figure things out on your own. And it if you're a good friend, you would be like, okay, well, you know, let me know when just let me know if you need help or let me know when you're ready. But if you're gonna be like, Yeah. Sorry, go ahead.

ANTHONY 11:29

No, go ahead.

NALEE 11:30

Okay. But if you're gonna be like, well, you're a fucking bitch, like, why didn't you tell me that you're going through that? Like you were probably utilizing me, you're using me for my company, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you turn it in that way, then I think that's a little bit immature for somebody to think like that. Because obviously, when you're in a friendship, you you go, you go through these things together, you experience life together, and you build a certain type of trust. And if this person really means that much to you, you're gonna allow them space to do what they need to do, and when they're ready, they'll come back to you.

unknown 12:03

Right.

NALEE 12:03

It's the let them go theory. If they need to go, do whatever they need to do, that's okay. Don't take it personal because clearly it's not about you. It's something they need to work on. You know what I mean?

ANTHONY 12:14

But I think that's fair, and I think that you hit it right on the head, and it's definitely one of those things where it's like I said earlier, it's all about having those uncomfortable conversations.

NALEE 12:24

Yeah. Sometimes the hard thing to do is the right thing to do.

ANTHONY 12:27

Oh, listen to you.

NALEE 12:29

Yeah. Period.

ANTHONY 12:30

Period. Point blank, period.

NALEE 12:33

Learned that from TikTok.

ANTHONY 12:36

TikTok University, thank you.

NALEE 12:37

TikTok University, thank you.

ANTHONY 12:40

What else do you have for this?

NALEE 12:43

Okay, so the other topic that I have was choosing yourself in a way that deeply hurts somebody. I think this can definitely create a villain.

ANTHONY 12:54

Person choosing themselves?

NALEE 12:56

The person who I guess isn't getting chosen. I don't Oh. The person on the receiving end of that.

ANTHONY 13:03

Yeah, I think both ways. I think it goes both. Or yeah, that too.

NALEE 13:07

Because the thing is it's kind of like a domino effect, right? Let's just say if you're choosing to do things for yourself, and then that other person is like, well, what the fuck? And then they become their own villain, and then they put the blame on you, and then at that point you become kind of a villain of your own, where you're like, Well, I don't give a fuck about you too then. Yeah. Like, you know, so it could go both ways, but yeah, that's pretty much it for that. That's all you got for that? Yeah. What about you?

ANTHONY 13:36

Well, I want to talk a little bit more about this. So do you think that somebody choosing themselves in a way that hurts somebody else, do you think that they have the right to be seen as a villain? Or do you think that it's right or wrong to be seen as a villain for that?

NALEE 13:51

That's a good question. I think it's for me, I think it's a gray area. But I think more so it depends on your level of maturity. Now, like, let's say if it was 10 years ago, and you know, if in in this situation where you and I were dating, right? And you choose to, again, leave me or you're trying to grow on your own, and you are saying, hey, like, you know, I love you, but I think I need time by myself. I need to discover who I am, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then in turn, I get upset at you for not want for not choosing yourself. I think that's a little immature. But let's say if if the situation is right now, it's at hand. I think it's more of like, okay, you know what? I'm actually happy that you're willing to put yourself first. You choose yourself. And, you know, whether that's not with me or whether that is with me, that's great. Because at the same time, I value self-growth. I value personal growth and growing outside of the relationship. And if that doesn't include me, like that's okay. As long as you're doing what you're you need to do. Because the thing is, again, here's the thing. When it comes to maturity, in my opinion, I think when you're willing to accept change, whether it includes you or not in a specific relationship, that's where the growth comes from. That's where you see that you don't need the validation from your partner to grow. And I feel like it's maybe a little, I feel like maybe there is a little bit more as far as you choosing to leave the relationship because you can grow on your own within a relationship, but you're choosing to do it on your own. And if that's what it is, just be ready to deal with the consequences of when you leave a relationship and you go find out that, you know, you could have been doing it with your partner or you could have been growing together separately and together with your partner. You know what I mean? But then again, on the flip side, the person who's getting the effects of, you know, getting out of the relationship, if you're like, you know what, it's okay, you know, if if that's what you choose, I'm happy for you. I'm glad that you you're choosing yourself. And, you know, yeah, it hurts. Yeah, it sucks that we're not going through this path together. But at the same time, I love that for you. You know? And I think that's that's how a mature person should process that situation. But nine out of ten times that doesn't happen.

ANTHONY 16:27

That doesn't happen.

NALEE 16:29

Yeah.

ANTHONY 16:29

I think that the you made it you brought up a very good point. It does depend on the maturity level of the person.

NALEE 16:36

Yeah.

ANTHONY 16:36

And I think in hearing this one, this one actually like kind of hit home for me, you know, choosing yourself in a way that deeply hurts somebody.

NALEE 16:45

Yeah.

ANTHONY 16:46

And and with our our topic at hand as far as like being made the villain, this one really hit home for me just because I think I told you about this a while ago, where like I'm not gonna obviously tell our listeners, nobody needs to know the full backstory, but my relationship with my mother.

NALEE 17:05

Yeah.

ANTHONY 17:05

And like a f I don't know how many years ago, I had sent a text message and it was a fucking lengthy ass text message, and that was to be my last text message, my end of the relationship.

NALEE 17:19

Yeah.

ANTHONY 17:20

And yes, again, this choosing yourself in a way that deeply hurt someone. I chose myself because the relationship with my mother was more damaging to my mental health than anything. And yes, did it hurt her? Well, I like to think that it did. I don't I I don't fully know. And I've I've often been I've often felt like a villain in this situation because of course I was the bad person because you know, there's this whole stigma around mother-child relationship. And for me to cut off that person in my life, it wasn't it it wasn't obviously well received from some people, regardless of my reasoning and my rationale.

NALEE 18:08

That I think, well, first of all.

ANTHONY 18:13

That was like a lot of wordwoman. I don't remember where I was going for that. But I think everybody, anybody and everybody can make somebody to be out a villain, but it is one of those things where it is. Every coin has two sides. There's two versions of every story.

NALEE 18:32

So you can't always there's always there's actually three sides to every story.

ANTHONY 18:37

Three you've said that before, yes. There's three sides to every story.

NALEE 18:40

It's your

Choosing Yourself When It Hurts Others

NALEE 18:41

side, there's his side, and there's the real it's the reality of what happened. Yeah.

ANTHONY 18:46

Yeah. Yeah, you're right.

NALEE 18:48

Yeah. I think in this situation, I think majority of the time when people become villains or whatever in people's situation, I think there's just lack of compassion and lack of understanding. Because, you know, everybody is out to fend for themselves. And I think I might take this back, I don't know, a year from now.

ANTHONY 19:08

But put this on the calendar.

NALEE 19:11

Yeah.

ANTHONY 19:11

Not like this back.

NALEE 19:13

Period. But I think whether or not it makes somebody sad or whether it affects somebody else, I think at the end of the day, choosing yourself first is most crucial.

ANTHONY 19:30

Thousand percent.

NALEE 19:31

Because whether it you're always gonna be the bad guy in any situation. You're either gonna be a good guy or a bad guy, but if you're choosing yourself, you're always gonna be the bad guy. And I think that's the thing that people can't really live with, is that they put up a facade of that they're a good person, that I'm doing this because I want to be a good person. I'm doing this because I am a good person. But it comes back to the kindness situation where I was talking about. Like, you can be nice and hold the truth, or you could be kind and be honest with yourself, you know?

ANTHONY 20:07

Yeah. It's almost one of the situations where, and I'm I'm trying to think if there's any way that this wouldn't apply, but it's like you're going to always be the villain in somebody else's story when you're not people pleasing. Right.

NALEE 20:24

Exactly.

ANTHONY 20:25

So, like if you come to me and you're like, Anthony, I need you to pay my bills, and I'm like, I'm not gonna pay your bills, Nolly. There, I'm not doing what you want, I automatically become the villain in in your story. Right. Right. Because I'm not appeasing what you want. So I feel like being perceived as a villain, regardless of what side you're on, and again, this goes this ties into the whole there's three sides to every story. We're all gonna be a villain at some point.

NALEE 20:51

Yeah. Period.

ANTHONY 20:54

I mean, really.

NALEE 20:55

And I think, yeah, sometimes, you know, there's a situation where you are a villain, but sometimes you truly are the villain too, though. You know what I mean?

ANTHONY 21:05

But be Yeah. But being a villain is subjective too.

NALEE 21:10

Right. At that point, it's just kind of like the level of you're willing to I don't know, reprimand the situation or whatever. You know what I mean?

ANTHONY 21:20

Like And the serious of the situation. Like are they truly a villain?

NALEE 21:24

Yeah. Like if you're over here talking shit about people and then you're like, oh my God, like I was never, I was never say that, but your bitch ass is spreading rumors and shit. Like you're the real villain in this point of view, because you're a fucking liar. But then if it's somebody who's like, you know, I I want to, I want to grow and I'm I don't have capacity to grow with somebody else, and I have to do it by myself. And if me choosing myself is gonna make other people upset, then sometimes that's just what it is. And I think people find it a hard time because the thing is, again, here's the thing when you choose to grow on your own, I think there's a lot of outside source that loves you, that cares for you, that wants the best for you. And sometimes you don't see that. But the better thing to do for those people on the outside is let you do what you gotta do, let you learn the lessons you need to learn. And again, it's that thing where I said where you if you want to go find out what's out there, go ahead. But when you're ready to come back, I'm right here for you. Here to support you. And that's that's all you need. But if you want to turn the situation of like, oh, you know, like they're doing it for their own good, and you know, they're being selfish, whatever, and you know, you're kind of like stopping them from doing what they actually need to do, then again, you could be the villain in that situation too, where you're you're holding them down, you're stopping them from doing what they need to do. You know what I mean? So you could be the villain all around. But again.

ANTHONY 23:04

Yeah, I think it's very subjective.

NALEE 23:06

Yeah. So yeah.

ANTHONY 23:08

This is something that I would totally agree is like it can be a gray area. And I think the biggest thing for most people to remember is just you're, like I said, you're always gonna be a villain in somebody's story.

NALEE 23:17

Yeah.

ANTHONY 23:18

Unless you're saying yes and pleasing everybody in your life at every moment of the day, you're going to be a villain at some point.

NALEE 23:27

And we need to stop that. Like, I think there's a difference between- No, the pleasing people. I think there's a difference between pleasing people just because you don't want to seem mean or you don't want to seem bad, or you don't want people to hate you, or whatever. But the thing is, that's not even you're not even being your true self then. And that's how you built resentment. And that's when shit hits the fan. You know what I mean? Where you're like, when you get into an argument, you're like, well, I did this for you, but I'm like, did I ask you to do that for me? Like you did that willingly, you know what I mean? And it's it's just kind of that's just an example. But if you were honest with yourself and you're like, oh, I actually don't want to do that, and you say, no, I'm okay, then you also create a boundary of what you're willing to settle for or what you're willing to step outside of. And again, that's you being true to yourself. Like if you're pleasing other people, you're lying to yourself because you don't actually want to do it, you just want to please people.

ANTHONY 24:27

You know what I mean? And just by doing that, you're doing more of a disservice, you're just doing a disservice to yourself.

NALEE 24:33

Exactly. Because if you're pleasing people and they're all like, oh, you know what? Like, Nolly likes to do this and this and this and this because you've been trying to, because I've been trying to please people, but then turns out I actually don't like that. And then at the end, I've built up all this resentment. I'm like, you know what? I actually don't fucking like that. Then people are like, whoa, like, oh, we thought that you liked it because you've always liked it. And then that's where you do yourself a disservice because you've been acting, you've been acting this kind of way, but then turns out you actually don't really, you actually aren't like that. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I agree. I think being honest and not pleasing people is doing yourself a disservice. However, when you're considering people, because you're doing it out of love or, you know, because I feel like consideration is like the biggest thing you can do for somebody. I think that's the biggest sign of love for somebody, where you're considering their feelings, you're considering them in what you do. That's different from pleasing people. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think that's where people get confused, kind of, or they kind of blur the two things where it's like, well, I'm doing this because I'm considering you. And when you consider people, you don't put a weight to that. You just do it because you want to do it. But now if you're pleasing people and you don't actually like it, then you put a weight to that where you're like, oh, well, tally one, I did this, tally two, I did this again, tally three, keeping keeping score is damaging in relationships, regardless of romantic or like friends. Exactly. But I want to say this before I move on is like the situation about your mom, and I know I think it's I think when you choose yourself, I think we often we often know and we often feel like we're doing something bad. And I hope you don't feel that you're doing anything bad for choosing yourself.

ANTHONY 26:36

Oh God no.

NALEE 26:37

Yeah.

ANTHONY 26:38

God no proud of you. I think it was the best thing for me.

NALEE 26:42

Yeah.

ANTHONY 26:42

And again, like this says, choosing yourself in a way that deeply hurts somebody. Like it's not anybody's job or responsibility. And yes, I am basing what I'm saying off of my particular situation. Yes. It's nobody's job or responsibility to try to modify the behavior of somebody else. Right. Or try to make somebody else understand what the harmful things that they're doing. So I think for anybody out there, like choosing yourself in that situation is the best decision that you can make.

NALEE 27:18

Yeah. I mean, in that situation, it's it's kind of like the it's similar to like blood isn't thicker than water. You know what I mean? Like sometimes it's not. And you know, you're just cutting toxic people out of your life. And if it brings you peace, then it brings

Family Cutoffs And Stigma

NALEE 27:36

you peace. So what? Fuck what everybody else has to say. You know what I mean?

ANTHONY 27:40

Exactly.

NALEE 27:40

At the end of the day, are you able to sleep at night? And at the end of the day, are you okay with who you are?

ANTHONY 27:46

Period. That's all it comes down to. Period. That's all it comes down to.

NALEE 27:50

Yeah.

ANTHONY 27:51

I agree with that.

NALEE 27:52

Are you being your most authentic self because you ain't ho? You need to check in. It ain't clacking up here.

ANTHONY 27:58

It ain't clacking.

NALEE 27:59

It ain't clacking. All right, what did you want to talk about?

ANTHONY 28:03

Well, I mean, we kind of discussed this and everything that we just discussed, but I was gonna suggest I was gonna bring up like cutting off a friend instead of like communicating with them.

NALEE 28:15

Okay.

ANTHONY 28:16

I f I don't feel like this makes you a villain, but I mean, you tell me if if that's wrong. I again, this is kind of something that I just mentioned with like my whole mother's situation, but like if I if I cut you off, most likely there had been signs. Right? So it again, it's not my job to make you see why I'm cutting you off.

NALEE 28:43

Right.

ANTHONY 28:43

I mean, I yeah, that's it.

NALEE 28:49

I was gonna say I agree with that. I think when it's there's a difference between ghosting and cutting people off. When you cut somebody off, it's like they're you've given them multiple chances. You've tried to and it could be the thing of you're doing it on your own and you know, you're not addressing it. However, again, it comes to the capacity of how you want to handle this person. Like if they're they're a friend who like has toxic traits and like, you know, you're like, okay, you know what? I'll give them one more chance. Like, I'll give them to prove, you know, I'll give them a chance to prove me wrong that they're not this kind of person. But if they continuously prove you wrong, whether it's a friendship, sister, brother, family, whatever, and if it's to the point where you have to cut them off, it's when you've given multiple chances already. You know what I mean? And I don't owe you an explanation of why I'm cutting you off. It's when you're done, it's done. You're done.

ANTHONY 29:47

And it's almost like, like I said, like I feel like I've given multiple hints or clues or dropped. I've slowly backed off on my communication with you. If there's no red flag in your head that is like, well, why you're not questioning why I'm not talking to you. Yeah or I'm talking less to you, don't make me the villain at afterwards when I have finally officially left.

NALEE 30:17

Because I think when you, like, in my opinion, like when my friend or when people start moving differently towards you, that should be your flag to be like, hey, I should probably talk to this person. Like, if is everything okay? Yeah. You know?

ANTHONY 31:12

Like, and I feel like you and I do a really good job of like, yeah, hey, you've been quiet lately, checking in with each other and just like, I mean, we talk a lot outside.

NALEE 31:21

Well, your your way of checking in with me is, hey, are you dead?

ANTHONY 31:24

So Well, that's because you fucking knock out for 48 hours and I'm like, I don't know, she must have drank a bottle of NyQuil and down some.

NALEE 31:34

Yeah, but regardless, I think when you get those red flags, whether or not there's whether or not it's them reaching out to you or you reaching out to them, if you feel some kind of change in the relationship, it's also your responsibility to point that out. Don't be waiting around. Yeah. You know what I mean? Question it. Send it to the city. Because I've I personally have had that that happen before where I'm like, oh, well, if she has a problem, she could come to me. But she was thinking the same thing, like, oh, if she has a problem with me, she could come to me, you know? And then you're just like, wait, but I was waiting for you to come to me. And she's like, oh, wait, I was waiting for you to come to me.

ANTHONY 32:09

Who are you calling out right now?

NALEE 32:11

Oh.

ANTHONY 32:11

Who?

NALEE 32:12

I'm not calling anybody out. I think there was a my girl Kalia. I think we've had we've had a moment where like, you know, and obviously that's that's what friends do, is that like you are responsible to reaching out to your person and be like, hey, is everything okay? Yeah. But then again, we were both on the offense and we're like, well, I'm gonna wait till she reaches out to me, you know? And then when I told her, I'm like, oh, I thought you were gonna reach out to me. And she's like, I thought you were gonna reach out to me. And I'm like, see.

ANTHONY 32:40

And that's how shit gets weird.

NALEE 32:42

Exactly. And so I'm like, hey, like, I'm so sorry. I thought that, you know, I was I was gonna wait for you to reach out. And then she said the same thing, and I'm like, see, this is why we, you know, this is why like the same. Exactly. Communication people. And I'm like, okay, because the thing is, it's never happened to us before. Like, we've never done that before, you know? And so then we didn't know how to approach that. And so then when we came to each other, I was like, hey, like, is are we okay? Like, are we good? Like, I don't know what's going on. And then truth comes out, we were both kind of like doing the same thing to each other unknowingly, where we're like, oh shit, sorry, like I thought you were gonna reach out to me, and you know, and then we're like, oh, that's what happened, you know? Like, but that's it's your responsibility to reach out when you feel like things are not consistent. And I take full accountability for that because sometimes y'all know me. I'm kinda I'm kind of dumb. Like she's like, You're not kinda dumb.

ANTHONY 33:43

You're kind of what's the word that I use for you?

NALEE 33:45

Pretty.

ANTHONY 33:46

Well, that too. You're very you are so beautiful.

NALEE 33:50

Bitch.

ANTHONY 33:51

Spacey sometimes.

NALEE 33:53

Strokey, yeah.

ANTHONY 33:54

Flighty, strokey, yeah.

NALEE 33:56

Yeah.

ANTHONY 33:57

Yeah.

unknown 33:58

Yeah.

ANTHONY 33:59

But yeah, I think at a certain point, I think cutting people off instead of communicating is fine.

NALEE 34:06

Yeah, I agree.

ANTHONY 34:07

Like, depend- I mean, obviously depend upon the situation, but yeah.

NALEE 34:11

Not everybody needs an explanation.

ANTHONY 34:13

Yeah. And I think it's one of those situations where it's like the writing is on the wall. If you missed it, you missed it. You know? It's not my responsibility to make you reflect on yourself or reflect on the situation or read the you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

NALEE 34:32

Oh my god. Kiki used to say that. She said that to me so many times, like a couple weeks ago. I'm like, Chow.

ANTHONY 34:38

Kiki Kiki knows what's up.

NALEE 34:39

Yeah. It's kind of the you snooze, you lose kind of a thing.

ANTHONY 34:43

Yeah.

NALEE 34:44

Like, take it or leave it.

ANTHONY 34:46

Yeah.

NALEE 34:47

You know?

ANTHONY 34:47

So.

NALEE 34:49

Period.

ANTHONY 34:50

It is what it is.

NALEE 34:51

It is what it is, is what it is.

ANTHONY 34:54

Anything else for the villain arc nobody warned you about? Our first segment.

NALEE 34:59

Nope. Nope.

ANTHONY 35:01

We ready to move on to segment two?

NALEE 35:03

Yes, sir.

ANTHONY 35:05

Weaponize healing and main character syndrome. Let's talk about how therapy language has become a form of armor.

NALEE 35:15

Not armor. Say what you mean. Come on.

ANTHONY 35:19

A shield, a sword, sometimes a flamethrower.

NALEE 35:23

That's right. Because why are we diagnosing people mid-argument?

ANTHONY 35:28

I don't like what you had said. That's because you have abandonment issues.

NALEE 35:34

Hello.

ANTHONY 35:36

Sometimes you're not fully healed. You're just articulate.

NALEE 35:40

Yeah, let's unpack that before somebody unfollows us real quick. And maybe

People-Pleasing, Boundaries, And Resentment

NALEE 35:45

we have. Exactly. But it is what it is, is what it is.

ANTHONY 35:49

It is what it is, what it is.

NALEE 35:51

Right. What were your topics?

ANTHONY 35:53

Well, I mean, again, we kind of just talked over this cutting people off instead of having uncomfortable conversations. I I feel like, again, I'm gonna stand by what I said. Cutting people off if like we had discussed after hints have been dropped, the writing is on the wall, we've kind of been like, I've kind of been like taking a step away. Like I owe you nothing as far as having a communication or having a conversation with you about why I'm cutting you off if all the signs have been there. Though, again, two things can be true. I do think if it is a friendship, like if it was like us and I were just gonna be like, you know what, Nolly, this is gonna be the last day. I woke up this morning, I'm like, I'm kinda gnarly out of my life, I'm done. But there there have been no signs, there's no nothing. It's almost a form of ghosting, I think. It would it could be considered ghosting if I just woke up this morning and like didn't text you back, didn't call you, didn't respond to anything. Yeah. And I mean, we work together, so I'd probably be like obligated to speak to you at work. Yeah. But like in that situation, that would be we'd have to have that uncomfortable conversation.

NALEE 37:08

Yeah.

ANTHONY 37:09

Like I couldn't just do that to you.

NALEE 37:11

I hope you could I hope you don't just do that to me. Right.

ANTHONY 37:14

You know, like that's what I was that's what I'm saying. Like, I think I think it is situational.

NALEE 37:18

The thing is, if you lead me to water, I will drink it. Okay.

ANTHONY 37:23

You would drink it.

NALEE 37:25

I would drink it. But yeah, I feel like if that's the case, like if you unknowingly cut somebody and not give them an explanation, that is a form of ghosting. Because what the fuck did I do? You know?

ANTHONY 37:39

Yeah, especially when you're that close in a relationship like we are.

NALEE 37:42

Yeah, exactly. Like if all of a sudden you don't message me in three days, bitch, I'm coming to your house and I'm gonna be like, boom, boom, boom, what the fuck is going on? Like, not even three days. I think if you I would say like within a day, if I don't hear from you, I'd be doing the house call. Oh yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Oh shit.

NALEE 37:59

Because we text each other like, I don't know, every fucking 30 minutes, unless it's after seven o'clock and I know your ass is knee deep and something else, then I'll be like, okay, my bad. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Your bid. But like, if it's past a certain time and I'm like, okay, he's dead asleep. I ain't gonna bother him. But if I don't hear back from you within like, I don't know, a couple of hours, I'm gonna be like, okay, we gonna do a welfare check, or I'm fucking like running myself through his window and you know, checking to make sure that Duffy's barking and shit. You know what I mean? Yeah. But yeah, I think if it's close relationship and you just all of a sudden stop messaging them, there's something bigger than there's something deeper.

ANTHONY 38:41

Yeah. You know. And I think that's why I'm having a hard time. Like, I feel like for me personally, when I think of ghosting, I think of like early-on relationships, right? So I don't would it be good if I were to just wake up one morning and be like, nope, cutting Nolly out of my life, not talking to her. I I wouldn't cons I have a hard time considering that ghosting. Like that's something completely different because we're involved. We had a relationship.

NALEE 39:11

Yeah. I feel like you could still ghost people in a long-term relationship, though. Yeah, I think it's subjective, the definition of because let's just say it'll be stupid, but let's just say, I mean, no judgment here, but judgment. Let's just say if your husband was like, you know, cut off Anthony and I don't ever want you to talk to him anymore. And then I just cut you off and I ghosted you, then I'd be like, okay, Anthony like Nolly ghosted me, or I ghosted Anthony. And, you know, we have no connections. Like in those situations, then I would be like, okay, something's up. But that's what I would consider ghosting. I mean, you could still consider that ghosting. You know what I mean?

ANTHONY 39:51

Yeah, I'm sure it is. That my mind, I just I have a hard time not to be a good one. Yeah, you do not have time, but yeah, I think depending on the situation, there should be a conversation had typically.

NALEE 40:04

For sure.

ANTHONY 40:05

If you honestly Especially if it's just cold turkey, that's the word, that's the best word to use. If I'm ending a relationship cold turkey that I was close with, an uncomfortable conversation has to be had.

NALEE 40:17

All I'm gonna say is again, if you cut me cold turkey, bitch, I'm gonna be at your door.

ANTHONY 40:23

If I cut you cold turkey, there would have to be a really goddamn good reason. Really goddamn good reason.

NALEE 40:29

Okay, I kind of want to tangent on that. What would be a reason that you would cut me off? So I can entertain it a little bit.

ANTHONY 40:35

I don't think that I could think of anything. Like I'm just kidding. I would it would all with like with you and me, it would probably have to be like a really uncomfortable conversation.

NALEE 40:45

Like what? But I don't I don't think that's a good thing. We have a lot of uncomfortable situations.

ANTHONY 40:49

That's true. A touche. Yeah. I don't think that there's anything that you could do that. Let me just wipe my tears a little bit. Would make me cut you off cold turkey.

NALEE 40:58

I agree. Like I said, this is for life. This is for life.

ANTHONY 41:03

And like I said, with me, there's normally like signs. Like I will normally like slowly take a step away.

NALEE 41:08

Yeah. I think the only thing that would make me cut you off is if Oh, she'd be honest now. No, is if you do something that like that you fully do that you personally wouldn't agree with. You know what I mean? If that makes sense. Like you doing something I know you wouldn't do, but then you just decide to do it.

ANTHONY 41:33

Can you give me an example of something?

NALEE 41:36

Like if you were like Do you want me to do do you want me to give you a reason?

ANTHONY 41:42

Well, I'm just I yeah, I'm well, I want you to give me an example, not a reason, but that was a stupid question.

NALEE 41:50

I mean stroking out over here. I'm good. Sorry. Yeah.

unknown 41:58

Okay.

NALEE 41:59

So let's just say if you were like, hey, I'm packing my bags and I'm leaving Richard and I'm going to Florida and I'm never coming back. If you did that, I probably would be mad at you. And I would be like, what the fuck? But you would cut me off for that? I wouldn't necessarily cut you off, but for a time I would. So Yeah.

ANTHONY 42:21

Okay. So you would more so put me in time out.

NALEE 42:24

Right. Now if so again, I don't think I would be able to completely cut you off. Because at this point, bitch, you know more about me, more secrets about me than anybody else. Excluding my sisters. But you know, hey. Well, that's not a secret because everybody knows that. I walked in through the steps through that.

ANTHONY 42:42

That you did walk us through the steps of that.

NALEE 42:43

Right. So that's

Segment Two: Weaponized Healing

NALEE 42:44

nothing. But yeah, I think if you do something out of character and you stand your ground on it, and it's something I know you normally wouldn't do, then I would be like, whoa. Like let's just say if you cheated, I don't know. If you cheated on Richard, I'd be like, what the fuck? You know what I mean? Okay. Because one, like, you know, we we have the conversations about that. Two, I know you're better than that. And three, if you're cheating on Richard with no fucking reason, I'd be like, yo, what the fuck? You know? That's that would probably be re a reason where I'm like, I don't know, like I'm questioning who you are now. You know what I mean? So I guess it's not per se I would cut you out, but I would question our relationship and I would be like, do I actually want you in my life?

ANTHONY 44:17

But again, that would be an uncomfortable conversation.

NALEE 44:20

Right.

ANTHONY 44:20

Right?

NALEE 44:22

I don't know. I don't know if I would have a conversation on things like that though. I would just be like, yeah, no. It's a real quick no for me. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. But again, I don't think I personally don't have anything that I would cut you out for or cut you off for. I don't think so. I don't know.

ANTHONY 44:46

Yeah, it's hard to say, right?

NALEE 44:49

Yeah. Cause I think we just know each other so well where I'm like, yeah, I don't have anything else and do that.

ANTHONY 44:54

Yeah.

NALEE 44:54

Or I'd be like, well, but then yeah, I don't I don't think he would do that, you know.

ANTHONY 44:59

Right. Interesting.

NALEE 45:01

And I guess another situation is if you killed Richard and you went to jail, yeah, I'm cutting you off.

ANTHONY 45:08

Well, I would hope that if that happened, like you would help me dispose of the body.

NALEE 45:13

Well, of course. We're not I said that for a reason. We were not. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Wink wink. You know? Right. Yeah. But yeah. I was trying not to give our roll away, but you clearly did. So um I'm not accomplice to nothing.

ANTHONY 45:32

Use this as evidence in the event that I have to have beyond trial. I will justify the shit out of this.

NALEE 45:40

This is unethical of you.

ANTHONY 45:41

It's gonna be the great debate.

NALEE 45:44

We'll have to get rid of this.

ANTHONY 45:46

Just kidding.

NALEE 45:47

We're gonna beat this whole section out.

ANTHONY 45:49

Yeah, exactly.

NALEE 45:50

Just bleed the entire time.

ANTHONY 45:53

Okay, what did you want to talk about for this section?

NALEE 45:56

Did you have any other topics?

ANTHONY 45:57

I haven't fully decided yet.

NALEE 45:59

Okay. Okay, so we'll go over one of my topics and then you decide.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

Okay.

NALEE 46:04

Okay. So one of the things that I want to talk about is calling someone narcissistic because they disagreed with you. What are your thoughts on that?

ANTHONY 46:14

I think that that is a very weak statement to use towards somebody. I think it's very vague. I don't see how disagreeing with somebody makes somebody narcissistic. I mean, I guess it could depend on the situation, maybe.

NALEE 46:30

Yeah. Okay.

ANTHONY 46:31

What are I mean what where where are you going with this? What is there a specific what are your thoughts on this?

NALEE 46:41

Was there a specific situation or I don't have a specific scenario, but I will say that I don't think it's fair for you to just call somebody narcissistic because they don't agree with you. I feel like if it's a pattern that you've seen this person go through, then I think yeah, maybe they are a narcissist. But I think if you're purely just saying, well, you're a fucking narc for wait. Narc. Narcissist Yeah. Is narciss.

ANTHONY 47:06

Narcissistic.

NALEE 47:07

Narcissistic?

ANTHONY 47:08

No.

NALEE 47:09

Okay, that's what I thought.

ANTHONY 47:10

Yeah, they're two different things.

NALEE 47:11

A narc is a snitch, right?

ANTHONY 47:13

Yes.

NALEE 47:14

Okay. Clearly I don't know this shit, but but if you're a lesson learned for you guys, for the audience. But anyways, if you're learning English for the f for the first time, that's what that means.

ANTHONY 47:24

Follow Nolly on TikTok.

NALEE 47:27

Yeah. But if you like, if you're simply just trying to win an argument and you're calling somebody a narcissist, and let's just say you've met them for the first time or the first couple of times, I think that's unfair. It's definitely uncalled for. But if it's somebody who you've seen patterns, you, you know, they've shown things or they do things a certain way and they clearly are narcissistic, then okay, it is what it is. But if you're just trying to win an argument, yeah, I think that's unfair.

ANTHONY 47:53

Yeah. I agree with that. I think so. I was just looking up because I'm trying to I'm trying to understand. Like you what kind of situation would you be in where you would respond to somebody as being narcissistic because they disagreed with you?

NALEE 48:12

Like, let's say if my my sister or my friend was in a relationship with a guy, right? And I don't know who they are, like I never really met them, but then we went and hung out one day, and then all of a sudden we were talking about a topic that I didn't agree with him on. And then I'm like, well, you're a fucking narcissist because you just want to blah, blah, blah, blah. Like in those situations, I feel like it's uncalled for because you clearly don't know this person. But now if it's a situation where you've been around this person and they are a fucking narcissist and then you call them out on it, I think that's acceptable. You know what I mean? You know what I mean?

ANTHONY 48:49

I do think that if somebody is narcissistic that they should be called out in their behavior. Are you a narcissist?

NALEE 48:59

I think to some degree, I think I am.

ANTHONY 49:02

Really?

NALEE 49:03

Yeah.

ANTHONY 49:04

Do you think I'm a narcissist?

NALEE 49:06

I think to some agree. I'm just kidding.

ANTHONY 49:08

That's fine if that's what you think.

NALEE 49:11

I think everybody is a narcissist in in some kind of le on some kind of level. Yeah. Not

“Narcissist” Isn’t A Disagreement

NALEE 49:19

all narcissists, like not everybody shows that side of them, but I think I think everybody could be like on some level narcissistic for sure.

ANTHONY 49:31

Okay, so a follow-up question with for you on that. So at what point does being is being a narcissist bad or a problem?

NALEE 49:45

When you're trying to manipulate a situation to be in your own favor.

ANTHONY 49:50

So isn't that but isn't that the whole purpose of being a or definition of being a narcissist?

NALEE 49:56

Is like Yeah. But there are situations that are.

ANTHONY 50:00

So every situation with narcissism I feel like it's a case-by-case situation though.

NALEE 50:07

I feel like if it's revolving like a relationship, right? And you're trying to because I think with narcissists, they find a hard time taking accountability. They find a hard time with admitting that they're wrong. And if in any situation where you can't even see your own fault, then that's what makes you a narcissist. But there are times where you can have narcissistic tendencies of like, well, I'ma stick with my guns because I know I'm right. That could be a form of narcissism. Hey, yay, yay, ding, ding, ding. That could be a form of narcissism, but that doesn't necessarily make you a narcissist. You know what I mean? Like you can have narcissistic thoughts and actions, but doesn't necessarily make you one.

ANTHONY 50:55

Okay.

NALEE 50:55

And that's how Notley sees it.

ANTHONY 50:58

And so it becomes a problem. So is it safe to say that narcissism becomes a problem when you're unable to acknowledge or recognize it?

NALEE 51:06

Yeah, consistently. Or when you do acknowledge it, but you're like, I'm gonna do it just because.

ANTHONY 51:12

Okay.

NALEE 51:12

You know what I mean?

ANTHONY 51:13

I I see what you're saying. Yeah.

NALEE 51:15

Yeah. Because then again, you're you're manipulating the situation.

ANTHONY 51:19

Yeah. And I don't think that a simple disagreement or a disagreement between two people. I don't, I don't narc calling somebody a narcissist because they disagreed with you is just, you know, getting back to the the topic at hand. I don't agree with that.

NALEE 51:33

I don't either.

ANTHONY 51:35

That's a like that's a weak leg to stand on. In my opinion. In my humble opinion. In my humble and correct opinion.

NALEE 51:46

Okay.

ANTHONY 51:47

Okay.

NALEE 51:48

Somebody needs to go to therapy more.

ANTHONY 51:51

Well, God, I had a really good therapy session this morning.

NALEE 51:53

Really? I love that for you.

ANTHONY 51:55

Thank you. Period.

NALEE 51:57

Look at you. I love that.

ANTHONY 51:58

Yeah.

NALEE 51:59

Okay. Did you want to talk about your topic?

ANTHONY 52:01

I still don't know. I guess we can. My other my other topic that I had brought up for this segment was using I'm setting a boundary as a way to punish people.

NALEE 52:11

So That's fucked up.

ANTHONY 52:13

Do you think that's fucked up?

NALEE 52:14

Yeah. Why are you punishing people? Why can't you just be honest?

ANTHONY 52:19

Okay, but do you think that I can see how it would be fucked up. Especially if the boundary is being created specifically to for that reason and actually doesn't benefit you or your life in any way.

NALEE 52:35

Exactly. Again, it comes to manipulating the situation.

ANTHONY 52:39

Yeah.

NALEE 52:40

Point blank period.

ANTHONY 52:41

Because I feel like I I've set boundaries. No, but they were like, yeah. No. We're on the same.

NALEE 52:48

There's a difference. There's a difference between setting yeah. There's a difference between setting boundaries because it's for your own mental health. It's for your own mental clarity compared to setting a boundary just to fucking punish somebody and make them suffer. Right. That's being cruel. That's that's being that's unfair, that's fucked up, and that's you manipulating the situation. Now that's a narcissist.

ANTHONY 53:12

Manipul any manipulation is like, I can't.

NALEE 53:16

I mean, I'm not gonna lie. I've I'm not gonna lie.

ANTHONY 53:19

I've I've probably manipulated situations.

NALEE 53:23

For sure. But it's for like stupid reasons.

ANTHONY 53:26

Like when she drives over to her sister's house and says, You want to go get something to eat, you're drowned.

NALEE 53:32

But then again, there's good outcome. It's not too it's benefiting you and benefiting me. Yeah you know, that's normally for me in situations where I where I manipulate stuff, it's more of like help me help you help me. You know?

ANTHONY 53:48

Help me help you help me. Yeah.

NALEE 53:50

Yeah. And it's kind of like we it's gonna benefit the both of us. It's not just for me. You know what I mean? Or like let's say if one situation would be like, let's say if I know that my sister really needs a a break out of the house, or you know, if she needs a kid. I thought you were gonna say a kidney. No. I was like, where are we going with this? I'd give her a kidney. She's my sister. But like if I know that like she needs some time out, or you need some time out, you know, and I would be like, dude, like I'm stressed, let's do this. But technically, I'm not, and I'm just doing it so that we can, you can have some time alone or some time out. I'm gonna do that. That's my way of support. That's my way of supporting your delusions and supporting my own delusion. You know what I mean?

ANTHONY 54:38

Do you think that that's healthy though, supporting people's delusions versus not like bringing them back into reality?

NALEE 54:47

I think there's a fine line between political. I think there's now if you're just fucking crazy, then you're just crazy. But I think if you if you do it, you feature the delusion, but you also know that, okay, we have there's a certain time when we need to stop this and have a reality check, then I think it's fine. Because I think that's you showing support to them, allowing them to process, do what they need to do, and then at the end reflect and be like, hey, you know, I know we did this, it was crazy, but again, you know, I think you need to take a step back or I think we need to reevaluate the situation. Now, if you're full on just supporting it to see if they're fuck if they fucking fail at life or whatever, one, you're not their fucking friend because you're just thriving on their misery. And two, you're not doing what's for your best friend's interest or whoever's best interest. You're just riding the ride along with them without even supporting them. You know what I mean?

ANTHONY 55:40

Yes. Yeah.

NALEE 55:41

You're eating the popcorn while not ha while not helping the situation.

ANTHONY 55:45

Isn't that you?

NALEE 55:46

Most of the time.

ANTHONY 55:47

Always eating the popcorn.

NALEE 55:49

Yeah, but I I I have my little commentaries. I'm like, yeah, beat that bitch up. Or like, hey, that's what's up. Exactly.

ANTHONY 55:58

Brenda, you're Brenda talking to the screen.

NALEE 56:00

Yeah. Cindy, your TV's leaking. Another little white girl fell in the well. Exactly.

ANTHONY 56:08

Okay. Yeah.

NALEE 56:09

Yeah.

ANTHONY 56:10

What about you? You have one more thing for this?

NALEE 56:12

Yeah, I do. I do. But I'm gonna take full responsibility for this one.

ANTHONY 56:19

Oh shit.

NALEE 56:20

Thinking you're evolved because you read one self-help book. This is me to a T.

unknown 56:26

Yeah.

NALEE 56:26

Watching one self-help video, and I'm like, ah, I'm a professional on this now. I'm gonna be giving ad I'm gonna be giving advice and it's gonna be paid. Like y'all

Boundaries Or Punishment?

NALEE 56:34

gotta pay me.

ANTHONY 56:35

I know all about avoidance.

NALEE 56:37

Yeah, yes. Period. I know about avoidance. I know about talking about hard conversations.

ANTHONY 56:44

I know how it feels like to be support system, you know, but I will say, I think that it is fair to feel like you've evolved and to think that you've evolved by it from reading a health help self-help book. I can't speak. But there is a line. Like I think it's great for you to like come on and like be like, you know, I read about this, and you're like, you're explaining this and you're getting excited about this stuff. And I think that those are the types of situations that really help us to grow as a person. And I think you have every right to feel braggy and to to what's the word I'm looking for? Like use that information in your daily life. And like, I get that it, you know, it's it's the thing right now because you got all this new information and you're trying to apply it critically and you're trying to use it. And I think that for anybody that that that is great. But where that line comes in at is when you, and I don't mean you personally, but just like anybody in general, like, okay, you've read a self-help butt, and now you're gonna go over, you're gonna come over to my house and you're gonna start diagnosing my life and situations, and you're like, well, I see that you said this, and that really makes you an avoidant, and that's you're this type of personality.

NALEE 58:03

Well, I think we have to. Cindy, Cindy, Cindy.

ANTHONY 58:05

Cindy, Cindy.

NALEE 58:06

You're trying to push them out, okay?

ANTHONY 58:09

No, no, because I think there is that line, and I don't think that you've ever crossed it at any point. You, the conversations that we had on and off air, you know, you read a book or you watched a video and you took information and you're using it to diagnose and dissect your life, your situation, and things that you're going through. You're not crossing any line. That's great. I want you to do that. I want you to be excited about it. I want you to call me and talk to me about, oh, this is what I'm thinking. I read about this, and this is this situation, and this person, so and so, and blah, blah. That's fine. But it's the minute that you cross over and you go into somebody else's life and you start using that knowledge and what you learn to diagnose and dissect their living situation and their life. That's where it starts to become a problem. And I disagree with that.

NALEE 59:01

Yeah.

ANTHONY 59:02

Which you haven't crossed. You don't do that.

NALEE 59:04

I think I have. I gave unsolicited advice.

ANTHONY 59:08

That's the best way of putting it. Giving unsolicited, unsolicited advice.

NALEE 59:13

Yeah, that's me to see.

ANTHONY 59:15

But you haven't done that. You've ex you've anytime that you've talked about you, and I'm talking about you personally, anytime that you've talked about things that you've learned about on the podcast, you're not using that for anybody's specific situation. You're all you're, if anything, you're passing along the knowledge that you've learned and your understanding of it. Which I think is completely acceptable and completely fine. Now, the minute that my law sends in a letter and she starts talking about a situation with your parents, and now you're like diagnosing and dissecting and therapizing her specific situation. That I mean, then you're crossing you're crossing a line, but the line is a little bit more blurred because it's your sister.

NALEE 1:00:07

But you're like, you're like, where am I going with this? Well, no, I know where I'm going.

ANTHONY 1:00:13

Let's okay, let's use Melissa for an example. Okay, so you you read this self-help book and you learned all about avoidance situations and this type of personality and this type of personality. Now, if you were to go over to Melissa's house for I don't know, dinner some night, and she's like, come over, we're gonna have a girl's night, we're gonna have wine, I'll make dinner. Fine. And you're just hanging out, and she's just starts going off on some story about somebody at work, and something bothered her. For you to jump in and start acting like you're fucking Nollie, her PhD, L S C M W, got all these fucking initials, and you start diagnosing her life and her situation, and you're like, you're this type of personality. Bitch, you read one book. Sit your ass down, apply it to your life, interpret it for your particular situations. Don't start coming at somebody else's situation, especially if they're not asking.

NALEE 1:01:08

Okay. Well, shit. Okay.

ANTHONY 1:01:12

That's how I see it.

NALEE 1:01:13

Period. Okay.

ANTHONY 1:01:15

Okay.

NALEE 1:01:16

I feel like I do that though. I don't feel like you do. I feel like I do.

ANTHONY 1:01:20

But that's- You feel like you've done it on the podcast?

NALEE 1:01:23

I don't know. I feel like that's just what I do sometimes. I don't know.

ANTHONY 1:01:27

You haven't done it to me.

NALEE 1:01:29

Okay, well.

ANTHONY 1:01:30

If you have, I wasn't listening.

NALEE 1:01:32

Wow. Wow. Bitch. But anyway. Actually, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

Yeah.

NALEE 1:01:40

We should have a con we need a deeper conversation about this, this kind of behavior. Okay, I don't appreciate it.

unknown 1:01:46

Okay.

NALEE 1:01:49

But um, yeah, I mean, I don't even know what we're talking about, but we're talking about thinking that you're evolved because you've had once. I think I agree with you. I do agree with you where, you know, if you're learning, you're trying to increase your knowledge base or whatever about a certain situation, and you read into it and you get to know about it, as long as you are applying to your own life and you're not over here dictating everybody's fucking actions and whatever, then I think that's fine. I think, again, I feel like this is why I feel like I do that, is because when I learn something, I like to educate people. And sometimes people don't really fucking care about it. You know what I mean?

Self-Help Highs And Overreach

NALEE 1:03:19

So I'm over here fucking speaking nonsense because I'm like, oh, this is interesting to me, and I wanted to teach you this kind of thing. But people are like, okay, and I don't give a fuck. You know what I mean? Yeah. So that's what I'm saying. I feel like I do that. Where I'm where I'm like sharing things that I don't really need to with people who doesn't really give a shit.

ANTHONY 1:03:35

But see, that's where it's again. Yeah, and that's exactly where I'm saying that's acceptable. Because I'm the exact same way. When I learn something new and I get excited about it, I want to tell people about it, whether or not they care about it. Like I feel like that's fine. It's just a matter of when you're applying it to their life.

NALEE 1:03:50

Okay.

ANTHONY 1:03:51

When you're pulling when you're pulling things from that person's life and saying, well, using what you learn versus just using exam general examples.

NALEE 1:04:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

ANTHONY 1:04:03

If that makes sense. I think I love that you get excited about when you learn things.

NALEE 1:04:07

Yeah, I smell what you're stepping in. Yeah.

ANTHONY 1:04:10

I'm eating what you're cooking.

NALEE 1:04:12

Hey.

ANTHONY 1:04:14

Nice juicy roast beef.

NALEE 1:04:17

I can't. That's Melissa. Don't even look it over here. We got pork chops over here. RVs. Oh, that reminds me of those videos where, like, I don't know if you've seen those videos where the lady she trips over a guitar and then like Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. That reminds you of that. You nasty. But anyways, yes, exactly. All right. Well, do you have anything else you want to add onto that topic? Okay. All right. Well, we're gonna move on to our third segment, which is petty or protecting my peace. Because let's be honest, sometimes it wasn't growth.

ANTHONY 1:04:52

Sometimes it was ego.

NALEE 1:04:54

And sometimes you didn't choose yourself, you wanted to win.

ANTHONY 1:04:58

And winning feels so good temporarily.

NALEE 1:05:02

So, how do you tell the difference between self-respect and revenge dressed up as healing?

ANTHONY 1:05:07

Yeah, think about that. And let's sit in that discomfort. What did you want to discuss?

NALEE 1:05:15

Okay. Um one thing I want to discuss is apologizing just to look mature. I think when people do that, you just look stupid. Yeah, like because the thing is when I've from what I've noticed, from my PhD LSD LSD Girl, that's a drug.

ANTHONY 1:05:35

Let's not get crazy.

NALEE 1:05:36

LSD MDA degree.

ANTHONY 1:05:38

Oh my god.

NALEE 1:05:39

Um that I I wrote myself. I got a little certificate in my room, I'll show you guys later. But I'm just kidding.

ANTHONY 1:05:46

She's not kidding. She has it framed and everything.

NALEE 1:05:49

I do. I think it's like a crayon. Yeah. I'm paying money for this. I printed it downstairs, bitch. What? It's four pieces of paper combined to make a big square. That's my certificate.

ANTHONY 1:06:01

Oh my god, I can't.

NALEE 1:06:03

I feel like when people apologize just to look mature, it backfires because the thing is, again, here's the thing. Your actions are different from your words. Because you could apologize just to look mature, but you're gonna act immature still.

unknown 1:06:20

Yeah.

NALEE 1:06:21

Compared to when you actually are genuinely apologizing, you do things to change the outcome. You do things, you put an effort on not making that mistake again. You know?

ANTHONY 1:06:33

Yeah. And we've had this conversation that you like, you've been really big on like your actions are bigger than your words. You can say what you want, but what you're actually doing is completely different.

NALEE 1:06:46

So Right. This is probably a bad example, but you could be like, I'm not gay, but you could be stuck in dick. That's a that's a clear example of words not matching your actions. And you're saying, no, I don't like guys, and I'm sorry I fucked up, but I found a picture of you stuck in somebody else's dick. Kind of a lot of things. That doesn't make them gay. I don't know. Okay. Maybe that was a bad example. Because I don't know the the infrastructure, but I'm just saying infrastructure. Oh my god. I can't. On some level, I'm Joey over here throwing out fucking big words from the toilet paper. But I don't know, on some level, it's it's like you're fooling yourself. You know what I mean? That's what I get from that.

ANTHONY 1:07:29

Well, I agree with that comment that you're fooling yourself, especially if you're apologizing just to look mature. I'm so let me ask you this. Do you feel that if you're in the wrong for something, you should have to apologize if you don't agree?

NALEE 1:07:51

Okay. If you're in the wrong for something, give me a situation.

ANTHONY 1:07:55

Yeah, I really have to come up with a situation.

NALEE 1:07:57

Let's see. You said if you're apologizing for something you did wrong but you don't agree with it, right? That's what you said.

ANTHONY 1:08:05

Yeah.

NALEE 1:08:06

Um, I think okay. Let me think about that question again because I thought I had it but I had to. If you're apologizing for something that you did wrong but you don't agree with it, right? Was that the question?

ANTHONY 1:08:20

Yes.

NALEE 1:08:21

Well, the thing is if it's wrong and you're apologizing for it, even if you don't agree with it, you're still not going to, I think in those situations, you're still not gonna fully process or you're not really accepting that it's wrong because you still agree with it. You know what I mean? It's it's kinda like it's kind of like Like, it's kind of like where I'm like, oh yeah, like let's say if we're in a conversation and then two friends are having a debate, and I clearly don't agree with like if you and Melissa were having a debate about, I don't know, something, and I don't agree with what you said, but then you were like, you're like saying, well, that's fucked up. And then I'm like, okay, you know what? Actually, I'm sorry. But then I'm still like, well, he's well, you're wrong, but you know, I'm sorry, or whatever. In my head, I'm still

Petty Or Protecting My Peace?

NALEE 1:09:14

not fully agreeing to that. So I'm still Yeah, I'm still lying to myself about it, and I'm still lying about being sorry about it.

ANTHONY 1:09:23

So why so you would say you're sorry even if I wouldn't say that I'm sorry.

NALEE 1:09:28

I would just be like, Oh, okay, well, that's your opinion. I disagree. I'm not gonna apologize if for for it though. I'm not gonna apologize for something. Right. Right. And when you apologize, again, it's you lying to yourself. Because you could say, Oh, I'm sorry, like I don't agree with that, or I'm sorry, I agree with that. But then you don't actually agree with it, you're lying to yourself. Rather than you saying, Well, I I see your point of view, but I'm agreed to disagree. You know what I mean?

ANTHONY 1:09:59

Yes.

NALEE 1:09:59

Because in that way, you're actually being honest with yourself because you don't agree with it.

ANTHONY 1:10:04

Right.

NALEE 1:10:04

And I don't know if that was your question, but that's what it is. No, I think you did.

ANTHONY 1:10:08

You answered my question. I w and I'm realizing that I worded my question really poorly. But yeah, you hit it right on the head as far as would you apologize if you didn't mean it, basically.

NALEE 1:10:18

Yeah. And you shouldn't.

ANTHONY 1:10:21

You shouldn't.

NALEE 1:10:22

No. You shouldn't apologize.

ANTHONY 1:10:24

Never apologize just to like stop a conflict or stop a conversation or stop a a disagreement.

NALEE 1:10:31

Yeah. You should only apologize if you meant it. Yeah. Because if you didn't mean it, and my point is that you're gonna do it again because you don't agree with it. And you're gonna do it again without you even realizing it. So you're gonna look stupid. You're gonna look like a fool. You know? Like it's like, I'm sorry for talking shit about you, but in your head, you're like, but I'm actually not. And then you go out and talk shit again. Yeah. Right. And it's just like, well, you just said that you're sorry, why are you doing it again?

ANTHONY 1:10:58

So that you still you know, and and so you as a person receiving an apology, you would much rather not receive an apology if you know the person isn't going to mean it.

NALEE 1:11:08

Right. Don't say sorry to me if you don't mean it.

ANTHONY 1:11:11

Yeah.

NALEE 1:11:11

It's kind of like don't say you love me if you don't love me, kind of a thing. You know?

ANTHONY 1:11:15

Mm-hmm.

NALEE 1:11:16

Or don't say, yeah, don't say you're sorry if you don't mean it. It's kind of like, well, that's a fucking insult. You know what I mean?

ANTHONY 1:11:23

It is insulting. Yeah. It is insulting. Especially if it's a good friend.

NALEE 1:11:28

Right.

ANTHONY 1:11:28

Yeah. No, thank you. I don't know.

NALEE 1:11:33

I don't fuck with it. We don't do that over here, not over here. Mm-mm. Yeah, I'm trying to think.

ANTHONY 1:11:38

I should stop doing that. I feel like I apologize for things, like little things, when I don't really mean it.

NALEE 1:11:45

Yeah.

ANTHONY 1:11:46

Like, oh, you didn't give me any of your popcorn. I'm sorry. No, I'm really not sure. I'm sorry.

NALEE 1:11:54

You're putting in your mouth.

ANTHONY 1:11:55

I'm sorry. I only have this last handful.

NALEE 1:11:58

Yeah, exactly. Just like the conversation, the apocalypse. Like, you have the candy bar and you're like chest split and you're already eating it. Don't feel bad for eating it. Because you already ate it. You know what I mean? What are you eating over there? Yeah, it's like, it's like, do you want to be into this? And you're like already finished with it, and you're just like, oops, sorry. You're not fucking sorry. You ate it. You ate it. You can't be sorry. You know? I sorry.

ANTHONY 1:12:27

Sorry, me, sorry. Yeah.

NALEE 1:12:30

Right. So it's like, come on. You dumb. You a fool.

ANTHONY 1:12:34

Now I'm thinking of that Demi Lovato song.

NALEE 1:12:37

What?

ANTHONY 1:12:39

Baby, I'm sorry.

NALEE 1:12:40

I'm sorry. That one?

ANTHONY 1:12:42

Okay, I don't think that was even on beat. But yes, that one.

NALEE 1:12:50

Oh.

ANTHONY 1:12:52

Isn't that what her lyrics are? Baby, I'm sorry. I'm not sorry.

NALEE 1:12:55

Baby, I'm sorry. Nah, sorry, whatever. That one.

ANTHONY 1:12:58

Yeah. Yeah.

NALEE 1:12:58

Clearly. Yeah.

ANTHONY 1:13:00

Can't wait to do karaoke with you sometime.

NALEE 1:13:04

I'm actually pretty good with karaoke.

ANTHONY 1:13:06

I know you are. I've heard you see. I'll send you the video. You can post that up on socials.

NALEE 1:13:10

Ew hells, no. If you send it and you share it, you are a solo podcaster. There is no co-host. We're done.

ANTHONY 1:13:20

Oh, so there is something that yeah, I can do that you would ghost me. Cut me off.

NALEE 1:13:26

That's what it is.

ANTHONY 1:13:28

You would not.

NALEE 1:13:30

I don't think I would. I probably laughed my ass off. I believe it's a good memory. I'm like, ooh, her? Ooh, I don't remember her. All right. Um, did you want to go over your topic or did you want to do that?

ANTHONY 1:13:43

Yeah.

NALEE 1:13:44

So I mean more on this one.

ANTHONY 1:13:46

Oh no, I think I'm good with this one. I think as far as your topic goes, apologizing excuse me. Apologizing just to look mature. I think that's so stupid. And so mature at any point. Yeah.

NALEE 1:14:01

Exactly.

ANTHONY 1:14:02

So what I wanted to discuss for this topic was staying silent to protect your own peace, but secretly wanting the like other people or them to suffer.

NALEE 1:14:15

What are your thoughts?

ANTHONY 1:14:17

So a couple things. And I will wholeheartedly open up and admit this that I have done this before. But I also feel the need to say like I wasn't like wishing like harmful things on people. Mm-hmm. But like a almost like a do it's like a dose of your own medicine sort of situation.

NALEE 1:14:40

Yeah. Okay. Sorry, y'all.

ANTHONY 1:14:41

I'm picking my nose on the I was here just like wiping away tears because I stopped. But sometimes I just think I I don't I don't see anything wrong with this because it's almost like it's one of those situations where you know there's all these m multiple stages to grief. I feel like it's the same thing with any relationship if you're like ending a relationship or splitting off in a relationship. And it's just one of those stages of things that you have to get all the emotions out because there are varying factors. Now, obviously, if it's just a situation where our paths went different ways, it is what it is, our our we're not crossing anymore, and I'm cutting somebody out of my life, or vice versa. Like I'm not wishing anybody to suffer. I don't yeah, and I think it's perfectly normal to stay silent and just sit in the emotions.

NALEE 1:15:39

Yeah. Okay. I think for me it's two-sided. I feel like I would like to think that I don't want people to suffer. I would like to think that. That I wouldn't want people I wouldn't want the feeling of wanting somebody to suffer. You know? But at the get but then again, there's that side of me where like, I'm gonna get my lick, kind of a thing.

ANTHONY 1:16:04

We're like I'm sorry, what? You're gonna get your lick?

NALEE 1:16:08

That's a new term. That I'm gonna I'm gonna get my lick. Like I'm gonna get what what I deserve. Okay. You know, I'm gonna, it's kinda like I'm gonna, I wanna see karma play out and I want karma to happen right now, kind of a thing. You know?

ANTHONY 1:16:22

I think that's the best way to say it is like I wanna see karma played out.

NALEE 1:16:26

Yeah. And I think a lot of situations where where people's hurt you and you want to see it, but it doesn't happen,

Performative Apologies And Honesty

NALEE 1:16:35

I think that's where it hurts you, where you're like, well, what about me? Like, when am I gonna like you know, like where how are they gonna, you know?

ANTHONY 1:16:44

Where's my retribution?

NALEE 1:16:45

Right, exactly. I couldn't fucking think of that. But again, I'm gonna get my lick, you know? Like, yeah, it's it's the thing of I wanna witness the karma right now because I'm hurt right now, or I'm the one suffering right now. But nine out of ten times it doesn't happen right now. And I think it's hard for people to be in the waiting of seeing the karma. Yes. And sometimes people become impatient and that's where they fuck up. You know what I mean? But I think when you just know that karma, I in my personal opinion, karma is really real. Maybe sometimes it's you get injustice or whatever, and it doesn't come right around right away, but some way, some form, you know, karma is real and whether you see it or not, just know that they're gonna get what they ask for. Yeah. It's kind of like, oh, you ask and you shall receive, you know. You asked to be an asshole and your asshole's gonna get teared up. You know, kind of that that kind of way, you know? And so yeah, I I say there's there's an equal part to that. Like I would say, or not equal, I would say 70% I want them to suffer, but then 30% I'm sorry, the other way around. 70% I don't want them to suffer, but there's that 30% where I'm like, ooh, I hope you fucking get it. I hope your tires get slashed. I hope you slip in ice.

ANTHONY 1:18:21

I feel like that's like I said, it's like the stages of grief. It's just one of those I feel like it's almost human nature at this point, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:29

Yeah.

ANTHONY 1:18:32

But it's a matter of whether or not you hold on to that, that it's not really it's doing more damage than anything.

NALEE 1:18:41

Right.

ANTHONY 1:18:42

Yeah, that's fine if for the first month or first, I don't know, three months see that you that 30% of you is like, God, I really want I hope their tires get slashed or they stub their toe on every corner that they go to.

NALEE 1:18:56

Yeah. You know?

ANTHONY 1:18:58

Like I'm not again, we're not wishing anybody like dead or anything.

NALEE 1:19:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ANTHONY 1:19:02

Like no ill will, just like minor inconveniences. Right. That is like karma on their life.

NALEE 1:19:09

Right.

ANTHONY 1:19:09

Um but now if you're like 25 years down the road and you're still like, am I wishing 30% of you used that for it? Still bitching about it.

NALEE 1:19:19

Yeah.

ANTHONY 1:19:20

Now at this point, you need to reevaluate your your own happiness and you need therapy at that point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But otherwise, I feel like it's normal.

NALEE 1:19:31

Yeah, I agree. I think like you said earlier, like you always say, I think you put the nail to the coffin or whatever the hell you just said. But or you hit it right on the head. Hit it right on the head. Right. But I think it's part of grieving, you know, like you it is. You obviously, yeah, you obviously don't want to wish anybody any ill will, but at the same time, I hope you fucking get what's coming for you. Yes. You know?

ANTHONY 1:19:55

So And I yeah, you said it too. Like, I fully believe in karma. So let karma play out.

NALEE 1:20:02

Period. Yeah.

ANTHONY 1:20:05

Yeah. So what else you got? Or did you have anything else for this for mine?

NALEE 1:20:10

Uh I think mine is kind of similar to yours. It's watching someone struggle after you left and feeling validated. So it's kind of the same thing. But again, it's just kind of like when somebody hurts you, you want to see karma right away. But then again, when you are wanting to see that karma, it's what's holding you back from truly caring for yourself and loving yourself and not giving a shit. Because at the end of the day, they're somebody else's problem at this point. Right. They're God's problem at this point.

ANTHONY 1:20:43

It's God's problem.

NALEE 1:20:44

Yeah. Their toes belong to God at this point, you know? So, yeah. I hope you get inconvenienced every moment that you can. But I ain't gonna wish death on you.

ANTHONY 1:20:56

Karma has something, and it's actually ironic. I I never thought of it this way. Karma has something that we as humans don't have. Patience. We always we always want the karma instantaneously. We want we want you to we w I want to see you. I want to see karma hit you. And karma's like, I'll get you when I'm ready.

NALEE 1:21:18

Right. What'd I say? The devil always collects.

ANTHONY 1:21:22

The devil always collects. It's literally like final destination, right?

NALEE 1:21:26

B, yes. So you may not see it right now, but he's coming for you.

ANTHONY 1:21:31

He's coming for you.

NALEE 1:21:33

Bad boy, bad boy, what you gonna do? What you gonna do when they come for you? Hey.

ANTHONY 1:21:40

Okay.

NALEE 1:21:41

There's our little so that aged us so bad.

ANTHONY 1:21:44

Speak for yourself. I just know the song. I've heard it on my AM. I've heard it somewhere. FM Yeah.

unknown 1:21:54

Yeah.

ANTHONY 1:21:54

I don't know. I tried to sound young and hip. And then I realized as soon as I said AM, I was like, damn, I'm old.

NALEE 1:22:01

I'm like, okay. Okay.

ANTHONY 1:22:05

Yeah. So that's all I got. What else? Okay. I shared my opinions on that. I do agree.

NALEE 1:22:10

Yeah. Yeah, I I honestly I don't have I don't have much to add. I think what I've learned is, yeah, you want, again, you want karma to happen right away, but I think at times there's a reason why you don't see it right away. But I think you I think you have to come to a realization that when you're ready to let certain things play out its part, that's where you find actual freedom in the situation. Because you're no longer caring about what's gonna happen. You care about what's happening right now. You know? And I think a lot of people get stuck in that mindset of like, again, when am I gonna get my leg? When is it gonna happen? You know?

ANTHONY 1:23:00

Yeah, because we we always want, you know, what's best for ourselves and we want it when we want it.

NALEE 1:23:07

Yeah.

ANTHONY 1:23:08

But I also blame that on like social media and like society.

NALEE 1:23:14

Yeah.

ANTHONY 1:23:14

You know what I mean? Like, because in the 90s, if you wanted McDonald's, you had to go to McDonald's, right? Whereas like now we've we've literally become a society where it's like, I want McDonald's right now. I can go on my phone and I can have it here in within 20

Silent Karma And Letting Go

ANTHONY 1:23:30

minutes.

NALEE 1:23:30

Yeah, it's the entitlement. Like we're we feel entitled to things right away.

ANTHONY 1:23:34

Yeah, we've it's entitlement and we've had that conversation before as well.

NALEE 1:23:38

I don't know. I've just y'all just gotta be positive. Stay positive. You know, things will happen. You know, the devil always collects.

ANTHONY 1:23:47

The devil collects. Just be patient. Don't worry about it. People will get what they deserve.

NALEE 1:23:53

Exactly. What goes around comes around, baby.

ANTHONY 1:23:56

Yeah, and if there's anything I deserve in my life, I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna get it at some point. So to all my enemies and to all my frenemies, y'all can sit the fuck down because I'm gonna get what I'm gonna get when I get it.

NALEE 1:24:07

Exactly. And it is what it is, is what it is.

ANTHONY 1:24:10

And vice versa. Amen.

NALEE 1:24:13

The only thing I'm manifesting for us this year is winning that lottery.

ANTHONY 1:24:16

Lottery. Yeah.

NALEE 1:24:17

Yep.

unknown 1:24:18

Period.

ANTHONY 1:24:19

Did you not look at the lottery tickets? We won last night. Did I not tell you that?

NALEE 1:24:26

Are you shitting me, bitch?

ANTHONY 1:24:28

Yes, bitch.

NALEE 1:24:29

Don't you think if we won, I would have been like I feel like if we won, you probably would drive to my house and be like, oh my god, Nelly, I got our big check. Or whatever. You know what I mean? Or you'd probably call me immediately and be like, bitch, quit right now.

ANTHONY 1:24:43

100% I would call you immediate.

NALEE 1:24:44

We're going on a trip. Yeah.

ANTHONY 1:24:46

I would call you immediate. I would FaceTime.

NALEE 1:24:48

That's gonna happen. I feel it coming. I feel it coming.

ANTHONY 1:24:52

You that Dululu friend. I'm hopeful, but I'm not like.

NALEE 1:24:56

I don't know. I feel it coming. Like you talked about the weekend. I feel it coming.

ANTHONY 1:25:01

I feel like I'm one of those people where it's like I speak it out into existence and then I just leave it and like keep the belief that it's gonna happen. Whereas you're the type of person that you're like, I gotta keep saying it. I gotta keep putting it out there, and like, you know what I mean?

NALEE 1:25:17

I don't know. I think it's more of a reminder for me. You know what I mean?

ANTHONY 1:25:21

Yeah.

unknown 1:25:22

Yeah.

ANTHONY 1:25:22

I could see that.

NALEE 1:25:23

It's more of a reminder that hey, like, it's coming, it's coming. Don't worry about it. It's coming.

ANTHONY 1:25:28

See, and I'm just like, I know it's coming.

NALEE 1:25:30

Isn't that the same thing?

ANTHONY 1:25:33

No, no, because you like actually like verbalize it.

NALEE 1:25:36

Oh, so you think in your head, like, oh, it's coming, it's coming.

ANTHONY 1:25:39

Yeah. Like, have you ever noticed, like, when we're recording and we always discuss the lottery, you're always like, I'm manifesting it. You always have to verbalize it.

NALEE 1:25:47

Yeah. Like I learned that from Jim Carrey.

ANTHONY 1:25:50

I'm like, I have it in my head. It's that's all I've done.

NALEE 1:25:52

I learned that from Jim Carrey. I'm gonna write out myself a million dollar check and I'm gonna cash that one day.

ANTHONY 1:25:58

I have that. I have that sitting next to my desk.

NALEE 1:26:01

Do you?

ANTHONY 1:26:01

Yeah.

NALEE 1:26:02

I love that. Yeah. I should do that too.

ANTHONY 1:26:05

I got the idea from you.

NALEE 1:26:07

You did?

ANTHONY 1:26:09

Yeah, because I think you sent me that Jim Carrey, he that Jim Carrey video. He was on like a talk show. I did this like back when we were at the further. Goes to show how well it's working. Three years later.

NALEE 1:26:22

Maybe I need to do it too. Maybe that clay hasn't been working. Cause I'm the one. Bitch, you the reason.

ANTHONY 1:26:26

You the cause right now. You the cause. I got 17 cents in my bank account.

NALEE 1:26:31

Stupid. We can still buy a steak with that.

ANTHONY 1:26:36

A gummy steak from high V, maybe.

NALEE 1:26:39

Uh okay. You know what? Tonight, send that. Write that checkout.

ANTHONY 1:26:43

Tape it up.

NALEE 1:26:44

I'm gonna write that checkout, yeah. Put it in your life. Matter of fact, I'm gonna write it for two million dollars.

ANTHONY 1:26:48

Two, okay. Now you're getting greedy. Can't just be happy with a million.

NALEE 1:26:55

Okay, I'm not gonna break it again. I'll just write out a million, I promise. It's gonna work this time.

ANTHONY 1:26:59

I don't remember who I was talking to. I feel like it was multiple people, but like I sent, I don't even know if I sent you one. I found a house in Texas.

NALEE 1:27:10

It wasn't in Texas. I think you sent the one in Hawaii for me.

ANTHONY 1:27:13

Oh, I sent the one, yeah. Did I have I talked about this before on the pod? I don't even remember.

NALEE 1:27:18

I think we did, but it was briefly.

ANTHONY 1:27:20

Yeah, it's just how it's just like I'll send houses and people are like, oh, are you moving? And it's like, no, I'm not moving, but I like to look at houses in different areas and like see what I like. See what's out there for you. See what money can get me in certain areas, right? Because like a million dollar house in Texas is gonna be a lot less nicer than well, maybe, depending on my preferences, but versus a million dollar house in Rhode Island, right? Yeah. They're gonna be two completely different houses. So I just like to see. So I love that.

NALEE 1:27:53

I do that sometimes too. I do that sometimes too.

ANTHONY 1:27:56

Just put in the entire state and then set my limits and like just an idea.

NALEE 1:28:00

Yeah.

ANTHONY 1:28:00

Okay, that's all I got. Anyway, we're tangenting off from our protecting our peace.

NALEE 1:28:06

Okay, okay. That's all right. Did you have anything else you wanted to any other topics you wanted to talk about?

ANTHONY 1:28:11

I don't have any other topics that I wanted to talk about, but I will say that sometimes being petty to protect your own peace is okay. And I feel like, again, I'm gonna compare it to grief. Grief has stages, different emotions have different stages, and I think that being petty is considered a stage of the healing process.

NALEE 1:28:32

It's I feel like it's part of the angry phase.

ANTHONY 1:28:35

Yeah.

unknown 1:28:36

Yeah.

ANTHONY 1:28:37

And that's okay. Yeah. And that is okay.

NALEE 1:28:40

But I do have one last topic I wanted to talk about.

ANTHONY 1:28:43

Okay.

NALEE 1:28:44

And this one I think is very, very crucial, but posting subliminals instead of addressing the person. What are your thoughts on that?

ANTHONY 1:28:53

Well, I'm guilty of this. I have done this. I probably might even still do it. I don't know.

NALEE 1:29:02

Okay.

ANTHONY 1:29:03

I think that there is a healthy way to do it and that there is an unhealthy way to do it. And I think that as long as you're doing it the healthy way, that is fine.

NALEE 1:29:13

It's the healthy way.

ANTHONY 1:29:15

Okay, so let's I'll use us as an example. Let's just say that we had a conversation or we went and we did something and there was a disagreement. Okay. And again, this is gonna tie into our a previous conversation we had. There's a universal right and wrong, right? If you're wrong and we've hashed it out and we've had the conversation, yeah, I'm gonna be petty as fuck, and I might post subliminal things, and like it's one of those situations where and this I again, this I feel like this is the right way to do it. We've had the conversation, you know how I feel. You know, we know where we stand, we know where we're at. Yeah, I'm gonna post subliminal message that are little jabs at you that like other people aren't going to know. But if you're scrolling your Facebook and you come across my post, you go and read that and you're gonna know that it's meant for you.

NALEE 1:30:09

Okay. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go and the shoe fits, bitch. It fits.

ANTHONY 1:30:13

Yeah.

NALEE 1:30:14

Okay.

ANTHONY 1:30:15

Yeah. Listen, if I'm calling you out on social media without actually calling you out, and I feel like we had this conversation before, but if I'm calling you out on social media without actually calling you out and you know that it is applying to you, you clearly know you're in the wrong. You know, then that's enough for me. That's I mean, that's a little petty, but I find more respect in me posting subliminally, knowing that you're going to be able to know that it's applying to you. Versus me being like, gali, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're a fucking bitch.

NALEE 1:30:51

Mm-hmm.

ANTHONY 1:30:52

And calling you out in front of everybody and putting you on blast.

NALEE 1:30:56

Okay. Okay. Okay. So maybe I'm not understanding my question.

ANTHONY 1:31:02

Wait, what?

NALEE 1:31:03

Did I So No, you're you're you're saying it right. But I was thinking more of like How were you interpreting it? Instead of how I was picturing it or how I was thinking about it was instead of posting something online, or you post something

Subliminal Posts vs Direct Talks

NALEE 1:31:19

online instead of actually telling them in person and be like, hey, this is what's bothering me. That's how I thought about it.

ANTHONY 1:31:25

And so that would be the wrong way. I didn't fully answer your question before, now that I think about it. So I because I said that there's a right way and there's a wrong way, right?

NALEE 1:31:36

Okay. Okay.

ANTHONY 1:31:37

Is that what I said? I don't even know what I said now.

NALEE 1:31:39

Yeah, you said you said the right way is the right way is when you you per you know that the you know you're being petty.

ANTHONY 1:31:48

You've had the conversation.

NALEE 1:31:50

Right. And then you post it so that they could see that, yeah, I'm talking to you, yaho bag, compared to just posting it and not actually telling them about it.

ANTHONY 1:32:01

And yes, and that would be the wrong way to do it.

NALEE 1:32:03

Right.

ANTHONY 1:32:04

So Okay. Yeah, I would disagree with it in that instance then. If somebody's posting a subliminal message for a conversation that they didn't have with the person.

NALEE 1:32:14

Okay. I don't know. I feel like I I'm not really I wouldn't say that I'm not a petty person. Because I feel like I could be petty, but I choose not to. But I don't, I'm not gonna even entertain that. I'm not gonna even entertain posting anything or whatever. If I had a conversation with you, or I'm gonna have a conversation with you, is what it is, is what it is. I'm not gonna wait for you to post or I'm not gonna post something to show you that, hey, I'm talking to you. If I have an issue with you, I'm gonna address it with you. I'm gonna be like, 100%, hey, you know what's going on. And if I find out that you're the one who's posting shit on purpose to rub it in my face, then again, I'm gonna have another talk and I'm be like, I know this post is for me. Uh fuck you, and then bye.

ANTHONY 1:33:02

Yeah. So that's petty. Yeah, because you would cut them out of your life if they did that? So like if I did that.

NALEE 1:33:09

Yeah, I would because to me that's very immature. Like Yeah, I'm not why would you why would you continuously and I've had this happen before, but it's just kind of like, why would you continuously try to say things or do things when it clearly bothers you, but not come to me directly and be like, hey, this is what's bothering me. To me, I don't fuck with that. Like, why can't you just say, hey, this is bothering me, the way this is approached or the way you're doing this is bothering me? And I would be like, okay, well, if I actually wanted to mend the relationship, I would be like, all right, let's meet in the middle. How can I, how can we both figure this out together? And if I don't agree, then we could both walk away from that. But if you are, if you have something to say and you're posting it online and you're expecting me to see it, I'm the dumb bitch who would be like, oh, that's probably not me. Like, I could that can never be me. Okay. I can never, you know? I can never. That could never apply to me. Exactly. But if you come to me and you're like, hey, like, I don't, I don't, I don't like that you're doing this and this and this, then I would have more respect for you. And that's what I should have said. I would lose respect for you and I would cut you off, and I will be like, you're your fucking child.

ANTHONY 1:34:26

Okay.

NALEE 1:34:27

This is child's play. Not here. Yeah. Because if you want to be an adult and you want to address something that's bothering you, come to the source. Go to the source. Don't play chicken with everybody else, duck duck, gray duck with everybody else. And then when I try to address it, you're all like, oh no, like, no, I can never. But you're posting shit online just to like irk me, and I'm gonna be like, okay, and that ain't me. That can never be me.

ANTHONY 1:34:53

Okay, what if question for you? So what if they're not posting just to irk you? But let's say it's a situation and I don't have any examples. Let's just say that we got into an argument, a disagreement. And I think that again, universally, you're in the wrong. Or let's just say that you're in the wrong. Okay, not even like universally. You're in the wrong, and I just want you to apologize. Okay. But again, and this goes back to our conversation from earlier where you're not going to apologize if you don't mean it, right?

NALEE 1:35:25

Yeah.

ANTHONY 1:35:25

So why should you apologize? You're not going to apologize. So then me, it's been weeks, and I'm just like posting, not like all the time, but like I'll post like a meme or a random quote or something in hopes that you see it to just make you think. And I'm not posting it to irk you, but I'm posting for you to think, hey, Anthony's still feeling some sort of way and wanting me to apologize. And I want you to re-evaluate or look at your thoughts on the situation.

NALEE 1:35:58

I think that's unfair though.

ANTHONY 1:36:01

It's almost manipulation, too.

NALEE 1:36:03

Yeah. I think that's unfair because if you are my friend and I don't agree with you, you need to understand that we're not always gonna agree on everything. It's okay to agree to disagree. And if you are being petty just because I don't agree with you and you're posting shit, I would be even more unbothered. I would be like, okay. Do what you gotta do. You know, like I it's to me, I I don't entertain that. I'd be like, oh, I know she's posting about me because I'm not stupid, but I'm not gonna entertain that. I'm just gonna be like, you're looking fucking foolish out here, you know? And I think if you can't even agree to disagree with a friend, you guys aren't friends. Because you know there's a thousand things that you and I both don't agree on. We're still we're still willing to be like, okay, that's cool. Like you, that's what you think. This is what I think. Now, when it comes to morals and stuff, and if we're not in alignment, I don't think I would even be your friend. You know what I mean? Because let's say if you do things that I don't like, I would never be, I would never hang out with you.

ANTHONY 1:37:11

Wait, what say that again?

NALEE 1:37:13

Like, if we our morals aren't aligned, I would never be your friend. Like, if you are a homewrecker and I don't agree to that, I'm not gonna be your friend. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm just saying, like, in general.

ANTHONY 1:37:25

Well, I'm glad that I didn't tell you all of my stories then.

NALEE 1:37:28

Hey, okay, okay. Well, I gotta reevaluate the situation then. Okay. But I the thing is, I want to believe that you are smart enough, you are educated enough to know that I would respect the same things you respect. I would agree on things that you would do. And we have that similarity of like, oh, I would never do anything stupid to jeopardize myself. And when I do, I hope that you can call me out of my shit. But if you're just trying to be petty and try to do all these little things like posting things that you don't agree with and stuff like that, and you don't come directly to me, suffer in silence then. You're the one who's hurting over it. I'm not losing any fucking sleep. You know?

ANTHONY 1:38:12

Yeah, if yeah, if the other person's not losing any sleep over it, it's like, yeah, what are you doing?

NALEE 1:38:17

And that that's the thing, is that like if it really is, that's so much effort. That's so exhausting. If that's the type of friendship that you have, it's it's not a friendship. It's just yo, you guys are playing tag on who's turn to say sorry to who. You know what I mean? Or whoever is on who whoever's the the alpha in the group or whatever. That's not how it is. You all should be mutual. You should have at least some kind of like standard agreement. You know what I mean? And I I'm not saying that guys do this, but I think girls do that a lot where they want to look like they want to look like they're the baddest bitch, or like, yeah, you know, they could get the most guys, but I'm like, bitch, I don't even I'm not even concerned about getting dick. Like, that's not the first thing in my mind. I need money. Money, okay? Like, I don't fucking care about anything else. I need money. Yeah, money. Make the money move, like Cardi B said, you know.

ANTHONY 1:39:10

I love Cardi B. I love Cardi B. You know, like we're really tangenting.

NALEE 1:39:15

We are, but still, that's my point of view, is that it's just immature and I don't entertain that. And if you want to, you can go ahead and keep posting, but it ain't gonna apply to me. I'm not gonna apply that to myself. And if you're a friend who's just pretty much like testing my limits, are you really my friend then? Instead of coming to me and being honest. You know what I mean? Honestly, at the point where you're trying to egg them on, like you're trying to egg the situation, I don't think you guys should be friends at that point. Because that's where you're not really respecting the the friendship part of it, the truth part of it, the mutual respect. Because it's just like, okay, well, we could we could play this game for a long time. You know what I mean? Yeah.

ANTHONY 1:40:06

And I think you hit it. That's toxic.

NALEE 1:40:08

That's very toxic.

ANTHONY 1:40:10

Yeah.

NALEE 1:40:11

I mean, I'm not saying you're toxic, you do you, but I'm just saying that like I per me personally, I would entertain that.

ANTHONY 1:40:18

I'm toxic. You just called me toxic. I know that I'm toxic.

NALEE 1:40:22

Okay. Tell me something I don't know.

ANTHONY 1:40:24

Exactly. I'm not sorry.

NALEE 1:40:26

Baby, I'm sorry. I'm not sorry. That was so soft.

ANTHONY 1:40:33

Well, I was waiting for, I was hoping you would have finished it.

NALEE 1:40:35

Oh, oh, sorry. I love that for you, though. You do you boo.

ANTHONY 1:40:40

Oh, yeah, I think I will.

NALEE 1:40:42

Yeah, I love that for you. Because sometimes I feel like you have to get it out of your system. And, you know, this is my part of supporting your delusion. But then again, there's gonna be a point in time where I'm like, okay, right. Let's step back. Let's not do this anymore. Let's concentrate on the podcast instead of those pop those posts and let's reel it back in. Let's circle it back. You know? Let's circle it back. Yeah. And if you get mad that I if you get mad that I'm calling you out, then are we really friends at that point? You know?

ANTHONY 1:41:14

Are you calling me out right now? Is that what I'm missing? No, no, no. Am I missing on it?

NALEE 1:41:17

I'm just saying. No, no, no. I'm just saying that if No, I'm just kidding. You know, I'm just saying that if your friend calls you out on something and you are offended or whatever, then like, are you really friends? Because do you actually take their opinions into account, you know? Damn, we did tangent on this one. Okay.

ANTHONY 1:41:35

We did tangent.

NALEE 1:41:37

Yeah. Okay. So you have anything else to add?

ANTHONY 1:41:40

No.

NALEE 1:41:41

Okay.

ANTHONY 1:41:42

I don't think so. Clearly, the the the premise of everything that we've discussed and learned today is communication is key.

NALEE 1:41:51

A thousand percent.

ANTHONY 1:41:53

And we need better.

NALEE 1:41:54

And that it's okay that you are a villain in somebody else's story. You know?

ANTHONY 1:42:00

You're always going to be a villain in somebody else's story.

NALEE 1:42:03

Exactly.

ANTHONY 1:42:04

So the only question remaining is are we villains?

NALEE 1:42:11

Yeah. I don't know. I think it's layered.

ANTHONY 1:42:13

Yeah. That's that's very diplomatic of you. But I mean, you know,

Final Takeaways On Villainy And Growth

ANTHONY 1:42:19

sometimes I can't I wasn't meant to be in the military, clearly.

NALEE 1:42:27

Anyways, clearly sometimes we are wrong.

ANTHONY 1:42:31

But sometimes we're also still growing.

NALEE 1:42:33

Right. And sometimes we're just petty like Anthony with good intentions.

ANTHONY 1:42:39

It's always with good intentions at the end of the day. But that's also the most dangerous kind.

NALEE 1:42:45

And here's the thing. The thing is you cannot control how someone tells you or how someone tells a story about you.

ANTHONY 1:42:54

But you can control whether the story keeps on repeating.

NALEE 1:42:58

So if everyone keeps casting you as a villain.

ANTHONY 1:43:02

Maybe read the script.

NALEE 1:43:05

Or maybe change the cast, bitch.

ANTHONY 1:43:07

That's what's up. Right there. Change the cast.

NALEE 1:43:10

Exactly. Well, if this episode made you co made you uncomfortable, good. That means you're not delusional.

ANTHONY 1:43:19

Which is more than I can say for myself. But you could also be currently drafting a very long paragraph text.

NALEE 1:43:28

And send it after you calm down or send it when you're in your delusion. Do what you got, Zoo.

ANTHONY 1:43:33

Do what you gotta do, boo, but regulate those emotions. And we will see you next episode.

unknown 1:43:41

Bye.