Hiking without a stitch

EP. 13 - Do the Thing: Mellisa’s Journey to Self-Acceptance

• Jonathan Norman • Episode 13

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In this episode, I sit down with Mellisa for a real and honest conversation about body image, self-acceptance, and what it actually looks like to rebuild your relationship with your body.

Mellisa shares her journey—from struggling to even look at herself in the mirror… to slowly taking small steps toward feeling more comfortable in her own skin. We talk about the moments that held her back, the shift that helped her move forward, and how curiosity and patience played a huge role in her growth.

We also get into her experiences with non-sexual nudity—from starting in her own private space, to being part of a women’s retreat, and even walking in a nude art show.

This episode isn’t about flipping a switch and suddenly loving yourself. It’s about taking small steps, being a little less judgmental, and learning to accept yourself where you’re at.

If you’ve ever struggled with body image or felt held back by your own thoughts, this conversation is for you.


Show Notes & Links

Follow Mellisa on instagram:

@selflovemel

 Artist & Event (Kat Shaw):

https://katshaw.art/about/

Get NAKED + Be Free + Be Kind

Follow the journey on Instagram: @HikingWithoutAStitch

SPEAKER_00

Who first told you to cover up? What if the truth is too bad in nature isn't shameful at all? Healing it reconnects you to your body and to the natural world. Welcome back to Hiking Without a Stitch. Get naked, be free, and be kind. I'll share my journey into naturism, stories from the trail, and conversations with others who have found freedom in the open air. How's it going guys? Welcome back to Hiking Without a Stitch. I'm John, your host, and today I'm sitting down with Melissa, a woman from the UK, to talk about her journey into naturism, how she started to gain confidence within herself through small steps and getting comfortable with her own body. That eventually led to things like going to nude beaches, attending a women's retreat, and even walking in a nude art show. But really, this episode is about learning to be a little more accepting of ourselves and realizing you don't have to have it all figured out. This is a great conversation. I hope you guys enjoy. I'm excited for this conversation. Uh to start it off, do you want to tell listeners a little bit about yourself and where you're joining us from today?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so um I'm Melissa, I am um I'm a trainee counselor, um, I'm an aerialist, I do kind of all these different things, do talk a lot um about body image online and get a lot in all these different projects. Um and yeah, and I'm from the UK, sorry, I forgot to mention that.

SPEAKER_00

That's awesome. That's awesome. I love the uh accent.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, thank you. I love your accent as well.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's awesome. So it sounds like I have an accent to you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, oh yeah, you absolutely do.

SPEAKER_00

That's so cool. I love it. Um, I love what you post online and just the content you share. One of the things I think is really cool about you is that you do aerial hooping. Yes. How did you get into that? Like what drew you to that?

SPEAKER_02

So um the class is literally like the studio is literally down my road, and I walk by it all the time, and it was at the beginning of last year, and I just thought, I just want to try something new. Um so I joined it and I didn't really know what to expect of it. And I remember as soon as I joined, I felt, oh gosh, I don't know if I've made a mistake.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Because um, you know, I was watching everybody else do like all these incredible things like hanging upside down, and I was like, oh, I'm not flexible, I'm not strong, like you know, and it took it's quite common for people to actually feel like that at the beginning. Um but you know, my instructor was wonderful and was very much like, you don't, you know, you just need to start, and it's about strength training. Um and yeah, it's like over a year later, I'm still doing it. I love it. I didn't expect to really fall in love with it.

SPEAKER_00

So that's so cool. I love it. Yeah, I love seeing your post because there it it looks it makes me want to try it. Every time I see your post, I'm like, oh, I want to try doing that. It looks so fun. But it looks like it'd be uh a challenging experience. Like you were saying, you have to get your body and muscles like prepared to do that, I guess. Because you're using a lot of different muscles, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you're using so many um different muscles that my instructor says it's very different to like if you you know, if you've got someone that goes to the gym, um, you know, they might just be working on a certain area of the body, whereas with this you're using everything, so it's a different kind of training that you're doing. Um but it it is hard, it's hard work, but it's it's very rewarding, um, and I just love it.

SPEAKER_00

That's awesome. What uh what's been your first experiences with non-sexual nudity?

SPEAKER_02

Um, that's a good question. I think you know, reflecting back, I think I remember this experience of me and my friends going on holiday to the beach, and we just it was at night and we were like, oh, let's like let's strip off on the beach. And um I just remember feeling like oh gosh, I don't know if I can do that. Um, but I remember watching my friends really embrace the moment, really going for it, and there was a part of me that was like, I wish I could do that, I would love to do that, but I just didn't have the confidence. Um, but I remember really being around them and watching them just like giggling and just really embracing themselves, and I thought this is amazing. Um, I wish I could do that. There's just so much at that time though in my life that was really holding me back that I felt I just couldn't take that risk at that time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, but I just remember one of my friends being like, We don't care what you look like, you know, we're not gonna judge you. But I know that it didn't really matter what they said. I had my own insecurities, and it was like, no, I'm not gonna do that. But it it was really amazing to be around people just kind of really going for it, and I guess that was kind of like one of my first experiences, I think.

SPEAKER_00

That's so cool. With with that experience, what were the like limiting beliefs or kind of things that you were telling yourself that uh held you back from from taking that dip right there?

SPEAKER_02

I think um I just didn't like the way I looked at all, and I barely could look at myself in the mirror, I couldn't really go there at all. So the thought that other people would, you know, and even though they're my friends, they're not gonna judge me, but I guess I just felt like you know, gosh, I'm I'm just too fat, I just can't show my body, um, you know, it's gonna be really embarrassing. Um, I'm gonna feel a lot of shame because I did had a lot of shame towards my body, um, that I just felt like I just couldn't I couldn't do it, even though it was a safe space. But it is very scary when you do it for the first time.

SPEAKER_00

As you were moving from not feeling comfortable in your body towards exploring nudity more, what were some of the like things that helped you move through those insecurities and kind of embrace being naked and and loving yourself more?

SPEAKER_02

I just had to do it. I had to go at a very gentle approach. Um, you know, it's acknowledging that there's so much conditioning that I've you know, that we're all we all are exposed to. Um, you know, some of those beliefs and thoughts that I hold, I acknowledge like they're not all mine. And actually, you know, it's just kind of being very gentle and going, it's okay just to start not necessarily jumping from like you know, oh straight away I love myself, but it's kind of getting to a place of acceptance and feeling a bit more neutral in my body as opposed to you know it's it's not very realistic to go from really hating your body to then just really loving it. But it's it is just very much baby steps, I think, and just being very holding yourself for you know with a lot of compassion whilst exploring and pushing yourself to a place where it might feel a bit more challenging and difficult, um, but not to a point where it's gonna be very stressful. Um it's kind of knowing where that discomfort is and when to kind of step back and be like, oh okay, I did push myself a little.

SPEAKER_00

That's awesome. That's awesome. I heard a qu a quote actually about um like it took 20 years of hearing lies and believing things about myself and taking on this persona. It's not gonna take overnight for all that to shed off, you know. It's gonna take time to reverse those those uh uh things that we believe about ourselves that just aren't true. Um how was nudity treated while you were like growing up as like a younger younger kid or adult?

SPEAKER_02

Um I'm not sure really. Um I guess it just wasn't really a thing. I think there's a lot of insecurities within my family. Um with you know, they they've got their own stuff. So it wasn't really kind of embraced, I guess.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Um Yeah, so it wasn't just a it wasn't open sh shown a lot, I guess.

SPEAKER_02

No. Um so this is something that I have found my way to on my own.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That's so cool. So after that moment with your friends and they went swimming, what was the next moment that you chose to, okay, I'm gonna strip off and I'm gonna do this, and what did that that look like for you?

SPEAKER_02

Um, so from the moment that I decided, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna start stripping, start kind of going out naked, I guess it was just kind of it I just wanted to kind of be braver, be a bit more confident in myself, be a bit more like I just really felt like I was holding a lot of myself back, and it got to a point where I was just really sick and tired of doing that. Um I was just sick and tired of feeling ashamed and feeling like I just had to hide my body all the time. Um and so I just wanted to really turn it around and just really start embracing myself, and so the moment that I I guess I started to do that, I thought I'm just going to start exploring it, and I started off just kind of by it was in my garden that I actually decided to go and do that. I just you know stripped off and was like, okay, let's test what it feels like just to be naked and be outside, and that was a very beautiful experience because you've got you know uh the sun on your skin, you know, you've got the wind that's blowing, and um it just really enhances like all your senses, and it just made me feel more connected with my body, and I was like, oh, this feels really lovely, you know, and I did it without anybody there, so there was like no expectation almost, I guess, to of what other people are gonna think or say or judge me. It was just me on my own, just being curious, exploring, seeing how it feels, get a feel of it, um, within the privacy of my garden. And um yeah, I think that then kind of switched something inside of me where I was like, I really I like the feel of this.

SPEAKER_00

That's awesome. Thanks. The the the garden, uh I feel like that is actually a really common um easy gateway to try nudity, is either in your own home or if you have like a back area or garden. Uh my best friend, he's tried gardening naked up in Washington State, and that's how he's kind of stepped into it. Um so that's really cool that that was your first experience. And from there it just kind of grew. You started to um create more opportunity for yourself to be be naked.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, I've been involved in certain projects, so um there's this artist, shout out to Cat Shaw, she's amazing. Um, but she paints women's bodies, and we had uh an event last year where we did, you know, she held up all those paintings of us all um in an art gallery, and then we had a show afterwards where the general public could come in. Um, and we just we got to go out, do a catwalk on stage, uh fully naked, everybody was, and it was just so empowering, it was incredible. Um, you know, just kind of really going out there, and we had like two minutes where the floor was ours, we could do what we want, and um you know, I was jiggling away, I was dancing, I was having the time of my life, and you've got everybody around that was really cheering and rooting, and when you're in that kind of safe space, that environment for you to just really fully let go and embrace yourself, and you've got other people that are also really rooting and supporting you, it's so different to everyday life where you are just filled with constant judgment, and you know, there's so much um you know, you just feel so kind of under the microscope almost. And when you have spaces that are created like that, it just does something to you where you're like, gosh, this is infectious, it's incredible. And everybody was you know, we had women of all different shapes, sizes, coming from different all part different parts of the world, and we just really embraced each other. It was so beautiful, um, the connection that we all had together. Um, and I just think getting involved in projects like that, it just it does uh I just feel so addictive to doing like that. Yeah, it's addictive.

SPEAKER_00

It it's so cool because I know exactly what you're talking about. Um it was such a beautiful and awesome display of what you know we're all involved, we're all welcome, all body types. Yeah, that it's super badass. How did you get involved in that program?

SPEAKER_02

Um, so it's really funny because actually my reflexology lady was around my house, and um she was like, Oh, I know I've heard of this event that's going on. I know that you know there's this woman that I follow on social media and she's doing this event. She says, I thought of you, I think it's perfect for you, and it really makes me chuckle because um I just love it when I have moments like that where I've got friends that are like, Oh, they see like a naked event, and they're like, I thought of you.

SPEAKER_00

Those are good friends, those are good friends, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So she introduced me to it and was like, Oh, I don't know if you'd be interested. I was, you know, and I read into it and I was like, Oh, I'm absolutely getting involved. That's amazing. Yeah, it's really funny. Um, so that's that's how I got involved, and she does projects every year. Um, so yeah, it's a wonderful thing that she's doing.

SPEAKER_00

What uh what was going through your mind like right before you stepped on stage and even while you were walking the catwalk? What was that experience like for you?

SPEAKER_02

Um beforehand, so I was bricking it. I um I was behind the stage and I was naked and I had a uh like my protest banner, and I just was standing there and I was listening to um Kat like introduce me um to everybody and I could hear like the audience and I could kind of peek around and see everybody and I was like, oh my gosh, this is really scary. Yeah, I bet um but it you know I and I was I was full of nerves, even though I'm quite confident naked, but something like that is very, very scary. And I went out and you know, as soon as kind of the music was on, people were cheering. Um I was just I don't think I was actually thinking anything, I was just really feeling everything more. Um, I think I was really just kind of getting, you know, feeling like the the experience, it was just like all the adrenaline going through and uh just pure joy. Yeah, pure joy. It was it was wonderful because before me, you know, there was other people that had gone on and I got to watch them and they would kind of go, you know, before they'd go on, they'd be like, Oh, I'm so terrified. Rightly so. Um, but then they'd come off and they'd be like, that was amazing, that was the best experience. So I was really holding that in mind of like it's gonna be terrifying, but you know, it's gonna feel wonderful afterwards, and it was, and I came off and I was like really pumped. I was like, I can't believe I've just done that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah, it has to be such a confidence boost, and like you're doing what you love and you're representing something that you're passionate about. Yeah, uh, it's super cool. What did that experience represent to you personally? Like when you were signing up and wanting to get into it.

SPEAKER_02

I guess I just wanted to kind of represent for um people in bigger bodies as well, because you know, there is just so much uh stigma and labels like that are attached, you know, and um, you know, there there's this kind of idea that if you're fat, then you know you're unhappy in your body, that you're not confident, that um you know you want like your goal is to like want to lose weight and all of this, and you can't be just like in a place of acceptance of yourself and be proud of yourself and be proud of your body. And I just really wanted to kind of go out there and be like, hey, like I've got fat and I jiggle and I've got stretch marks and body hair, and I'm just here kind of existing, saying this is okay, it's okay for you to look like this, and it's okay to not want to lose weight and not want to change yourself, and it's okay to be happy and to just live your life, you know, because I think as well, you know, as fat people you kind of hold off things from doing things, you know. It's like it's like, oh, I need to lose weight, you know, I can't do the thing until I've lost the weight, you know, and I'm kind of wanting to say, no, go do the thing, like life's too short.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Go go experience the experience. Because you'll you'll get to the end of your life and look back and go, oh my god, I didn't do anything.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

It's it's because of someone else's opinion of me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Um You also went to a women's retreat where you skinny dipped. Was that before or after this event?

SPEAKER_02

Uh that was before. The before?

SPEAKER_00

Do you want to briefly kind of talk about that?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so uh we I went to this like yoga kind of women's retreat, like with one of my friends. Um, you know, it's kind of doing a bit of yoga, bit of meditation, and we had periods like it was it was in like a field. And we decided about halfway through the day to kind of walk down into the woods, and there was gonna be like um this natural clay that is found um, you know, by kind of like this little lake, and uh it was just in the moment, we just some of the girls just started stripping off, and um I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_00

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02

I was like, I'm gonna join in, and it was really funny because my friend was like further down and she was like climbing a tree, and um and she she she didn't know what was going on until she kind of turned around and saw there was just a bunch of women naked, and we were all in this water, and we were covering ourselves with the natural clay, we're talking about how good it is for you the skin, and um that was really amazing because it it wasn't planned, it was just very much like, oh, it's a beautiful day, let's strip off. We all got fully naked, it was really cold in there as well, but we were just all giggling, and it's just again, there's this kind of feeling of acceptance when you're just in that space, there's no judgment, people genuinely don't care about what you look like, and they're not making any comments about you. It's just very much like we're just existing together in this moment, we're present with each other, and we're just we're just being, and it's so beautiful. And then afterwards, my friend came to me and she was like, Oh, I didn't realise what was going on until I turned around and she said, and I of course you're naked, you were there, of course you were. Of course you're gonna join in. I was like, obviously.

SPEAKER_00

That's hysterical.

SPEAKER_02

I know, because she just my friends do know me as like I I get labelled very much the naked friend.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So she was like, Of course, of course you were there, of course you were naked. Um, and it that was great because I think that was the first time I was naked in front of a friend as well. Um very cool. Yeah. So and she was just like, No, brilliant, like hats off to you.

SPEAKER_00

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_02

It was great.

SPEAKER_00

Um, was it do you know if any of the other Women, it was their first time being like nude around other people, or uh Did anyone like kind of talk about it afterwards, or just you guys kind of went your separate ways?

SPEAKER_02

Uh I think we just kind of went our separate ways to be honest. I think um there was you know there was a a group of other women that didn't wanna didn't want to do it. Um so I think it's just I think there was uh a few women that just I think they do something similar. I think that they're it they're at that point where they do feel comfortable and confident to be naked um and that they enjoy doing it as well. That was kind of like the vibe that I got from them. But it wasn't planned, so we didn't really kind of talk about it or anything, but yeah, um I I got the feeling they were similar to me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Interesting. Um so you seem pretty open with your friends and the people around you about being like the naked friend.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um what kind of reactions have you gotten from people around you when they start to figure that out, or when you started to talk about, hey, I like to spend time naked?

SPEAKER_02

I get really good like uh responses from people, actually, which is really nice. Um for example, I mean, uh I'm you know at university at the moment, and there's a small group of women in in my group, and um, you know, I remember telling them for the first time, they were like, that's awesome. And they just very much talk about oh that takes a lot of you know, a lot of confidence, a lot of bravery to go and do stuff like that. And um, I think you know, I just I the general reaction that I get is like that's amazing that you do that, because they're always like, I couldn't do that, and sometimes I like to challenge them a bit, and I'm a bit like you couldn't know. Yeah, you could, you know, what's holding you back there? But I think that's the therapist in me, wanting to dig a little deeper. But yeah, it's it's gen it most of the time, it's I I don't think actually I've ever had a negative response from it.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, good, yeah, good. That that seems to be the norm, but I do know that people have pretty visceral reactions at times. Yeah. Um, depending on who they are. Absolutely. You said you're a therapist, just out of curiosity, do you see any like from like a therapy standpoint, spending time in nature and being naked, does that help people mentally? We're in like this crisis right now of people in their mental health and feeling just yuck about themselves.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean, um, I mean, to be fair, I'm very new to this career, so I'm not gonna go making claims, but um I think from my own experience and from viewing other people, yeah, I think there is a hundred percent uh a connection that happens of you know, just kind of being around in nature, um you know, and I think being naked as well, in nature as well, it's just so it feels really grounding, really healing. I feel like it kind of rewires a bit of the brain as well. Um because of the way that you view yourself. I think it's more about not viewing your body in the sense of like how it looks aesthetically, but it's more about experiencing the body. You know, it's almost like your body's a tool just to kind of really exist here, to have the experiences that you have, and I think by going out in nature, it really helps you to be present, to really just feel everything and ground yourself, and that's a lot of the tools that we use as therapists is is you know, grounding tools that where you you know you to help ground you, you kind of really help people to connect with their senses and to get a feel of the body and what does this feel like in the body, and I think so. I think that the the very much could be connections to really help in improve mental health and and also just build in a better relationship with your body and yourself.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for that answer. Yeah, and I I didn't mean to put you on the spot, I didn't mean like professionally or anything, but like just as as as humans, it's like um I find that nature really helps me personally meant with my mental health. So I was just curious if you had experienced something similar and like the correlations. So thank you for that. It's okay. Um what have your outdoor nude experiences been like? Like have you gone like on a nude hike or to like a nude beach, something something like that?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so I've been to a nudist beach. It was my first time last year that I decided to go. Um, and that again, a wonderful experience. Um, I'm actually going in a few weeks' time going back to that. So awesome. It's really excited for that. Um, yeah, it was just wonderful because you know, to really kind of put your body out there, like in terms of kind of you know, you've not got any any barriers. I know that sounds weird because even just wearing a bikini, I know it's like it's not much clothing at the end of the day, but there it does feel a very big difference from wearing something, even if it is like a bikini, to then just being naked, and to really feel like the sun and the wind and the sea and you know, all of that just it's so healing and it's so peaceful, and just kind of watching other people on the beach as well. Um, they're just doing their thing, you know, they're just chilling, some bathing, they're um, you know, walking along the beach, and it's just the most normal thing in the world. Like, it's wild to me that I think some people maybe look at naturism as like this very bizarre thing that people do, but I find it very bizarre that people think that way because it feels very natural to do, it really does, and being around other people, um everyone's just they're not they're just minding their own business, they're just doing their thing and they're just being present and just being, and I love I think that's what I love about the space so much is that there isn't this judgment that happens as like it's it's a very weird thing because I think I feel more judged and more pressured when I'm clothed than you know, when I'm naked, I just feel very free, um, and I feel like I'm just embracing myself to the fullest. Um and I I it's one of the things I really love about it, and being around other people that are also doing the same thing. I just feel very respected and in a safe space as well. There's a lot of positive experiences and feelings that I've had that I connect with with being naked, and I think that's why I every time I keep going back and back again to do something where I where I can be naked because it's just it's um it's just a wonderful a wonderful thing, that wonderful thing. The emotions that come with it, but also just being around people that just accept you for who you are.

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's it's wild how we wear all these masks and you know pretend yeah, you know, certain things are a certain way, but then when we strip everything off, it's like speaking to people, other people that are nude down at the nude beach. Yeah. You have the most intense, awesome conversations with great eye contact, and they're really there for you and your soul, not to like view you or you know what I mean. It's just such a unique uh um experience.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I mean, I I've not had the uh the pleasure of kind of actually talking to people on the beach yet, because I think it was my first time, so I was just kind of really staying to myself. I was with my wife, um and you know, she she didn't really want to get involved, and that's okay. That's not for her, but she's all for me. That's not getting me kidding. She knows I love to do it, she's always so supportive. So um we just kind of stick like you know, kind of stuck together on the you know, with that, and I've not actually had the pleasure to talk to people on the beach, but I'm going in a few weeks' time, that could change.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there you go. Yeah, there you go. Um yeah, that might be an odd one too, because when we go to our local beach here, it's like, hey, how is it going? Oh well how how long have you been here? It's like people come over and sit next to us and talk to the family and stuff, so it's it I don't know. Depends, I guess, too, where where you go, I guess.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, absolutely. Because I think um, you know, I think as Brits are a bit maybe a bit different. I think we tend to keep ourselves to ourselves um a bit more, maybe. Um but I'm quite chatty and I like talking to people, so I might give it a go in a few weeks' time.

SPEAKER_00

Nice. What uh what's the general like attitude publicly for or towards nudity there in your area?

SPEAKER_02

Um do you mean kind of like in those spaces?

SPEAKER_00

Uh just I mean like if you're talking to someone that's a non-naturist or someone that doesn't go out and do naked adventures, what's what's kind of the general public's attitude like? Are they okay with nudity? Are most people shunning of it?

SPEAKER_02

Like, uh I think everyone's a bit different. I get different responses. I think some people are genuinely probably a bit okay with it, but they're like, that's really not my thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, and I wouldn't go near that. Um, you know, for the people they think it's awesome. Um yeah, I think, but I do get the feeling that a lot of people are just kind of like, yeah, that that seems cool, but I'm just not gonna really go there.

SPEAKER_00

Gotcha. So it's really non-issue. Yeah. Um what does self-love mean to you now?

SPEAKER_02

Um it just means being very gentle and compassionate to myself. Um it's acknowledging that actually there's gonna be days where it's harder than others. Um, you know, I think people have might might have this idea of self-love of actually being like, I need to love myself all the time every day, and it's not like that because that's not real and it's not realistic. Um so it's just being very gentle with yourself, you know, because I still get days where I feel very insecure and I might be more quiet and not as confident, um, and I might look at my body and think, oh gosh, like I just don't like the way I look right now. Um, you know, that's normal, that's okay. And I just tell myself that's okay to feel like that and to have those days, um, just as much as the days where I am a bit more like confident and feeling like, yeah, I look, I look great. Yeah, you know, it's um yeah, so to me, self-love is very much just kind of it's almost like holding that love and care for yourself like you would your friend, your partner. It's very much trying to treat yourself in the same way, which I think people find very difficult to do, to really give themselves that same love and care back, but and it's not easy, especially when most of my life has very much been I've been the opposite, I've been my worst enemy, and so those those kind of uh thoughts that I have about myself, they still they're still there, but it's kind of just being a bit more gentle and trying to rewire the brain to be like, you know, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

If you're gonna speak to someone that's struggling with their body image but curious about non-sexual nudity and trying it, what would be your what would you want them to know from this episode, or the one thing that they'd take away from today from your what you have to say?

SPEAKER_02

Ooh, that's a good question. Um I think it's totally understandable for people to really not like their bodies to feel have different mixed emotions about their bodies to feel insecure because at the end of the day we have had so much conditioning and we are in a society where there is so much pressure. Um and so I think it's really understandable why people would feel the way that they do about their bodies, but I think um my approach it is always just it's the same thing, I repeat it all the time, but I genuinely I genuinely believe it. But it it's just it's just really kind of um acknowledging that, acknowledging that it can be challenging. Um, and if you want to go out and try be naked outside, definitely definitely give it a go, but again, it's baby steps, so don't think I've got to go and you know, I don't know, go to a nudist beach if you're really don't, you know, if you're really uncomfortable with your body, um, just start start slow. Try out like I did, like if you've got a garden where it's private, try that, just get a feel. I think that's the best advice I could give is really just get a feel for what it feels like to be naked, to be outside, because that can feel a bit daunting and that can feel a bit odd at the beginning, like very exposing. Um yeah, so just have a feel for it and make sure that you're checking in with yourself. How does this feel in my body? What are my thoughts right now? Um, and just don't be afraid to really go out there, I think, because actually a lot of people that are involved with you know, naturism, and um I think so many people are so wonderful, so kind, so respectful, it's such a safe space that I think it will be scary, of course it will be, but I think once people actually do then experience it and push themselves, it'll kind of be like a moment like oh, I can't believe I just did that, but at the same time, it might feel like that's one of the best experiences I've done, and you never know where you can go from there. You know, you can try it and be like, actually, okay, that's not for me, but it you could then also turn around and be like, Oh, I love that, and you can learn something new about yourself, and the the rewards you get afterwards where it really boosts your confidence up, and um you know, you just feel like you're just less judgmental of of yourself and other people. It's just so um, there's just so many connections that happen afterwards. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I would just that's so awesome.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

That's so awesome. I love I love the answer, and um yeah. Were you gonna say something else? I'm sorry, I cut you off.

SPEAKER_02

No, that's alright. I think I think that was it. Um I think I answered the question.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, you did, you did, thank you. That was a great answer. Um we'll wrap things up right here. That's a great place to end. Okay. So thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it, and I appreciate your perspective and your story. It's it's been awesome getting to know you.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you so much for having me. I've honestly it's been I've never done a pack a podcast before, so it's very new for me. But um, and I also think what a great way to to start a podcast like doing it naked, it's great.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, absolutely. And you are you're you're awesome. The the episode's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00

That was a really great conversation. I really appreciate Melissa coming on and being so vulnerable and open and sharing her story. Um one of the biggest takeaways for me is just how simple this process can be, but it's not always easy. And it's not about flipping a switch and suddenly loving your body. It's about taking small steps, getting really curious about yourself, and being a little bit more patient with yourself. And if you're curious about non-sexual nudity or what it's like to be naked, use her advice. Start in your own spaces, get a little bit more curious and get a feel for it. Uh-uh. Ease into it instead of forcing something that makes you feel uncomfortable. Go at your own pace. And that can look however it needs to look like for you. I really think that applies to more than just nudity. It's really about how we treat ourselves in general. So, as always, get naked, be free, and be kind. See ya.