EP. 14 - Andrew’s Journey Into Nude Hiking, Self-Acceptance & Outdoor Freedom

In this episode, I sit down with Andrew, a local Phoenix hiker, to talk about his personal journey into nude hiking and non-sexual nudity.

Andrew shares how it all started—from his first spontaneous nude pool jump to finding confidence and freedom out on the trail. We dive into how spending time in nature without clothes has impacted his mindset, improved his physical health, and helped him develop a deeper sense of self-acceptance.

We also get into the practical side of things, including tips for staying safe while hiking nude, how to navigate public spaces, and what the nudist community is really like.

If you’ve ever been curious about nude hiking—or you’re looking for a new way to connect with yourself and nature—this episode offers a real and honest perspective from someone living it.

In this episode:

• Andrew’s first experience with nudity outdoors
• Building confidence and body acceptance
• Mental and physical benefits of nude hiking
• Safety tips and trail awareness
• Understanding the nudist community

Note: During the episode, I reference game cameras and misspoke. Hunters are not allowed to use game cameras in Arizona for hunting purposes. Any cameras you may encounter are more likely used by wildlife photographers, researchers, or fish and game officials.

If you’d like to connect with Andrew or follow along with his adventures, check him out here:

 https://www.instagram.com/clandestine_exposure?igsh=aDFhc2lrODdpN2du

Get NAKED + Be Free + Be Kind

Follow the journey on Instagram: @HikingWithoutAStitch

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:25

How's it going guys? Welcome back to hiking the data stitch. I'm John, your host, and today's episode's a cool one. I'm sitting down with Andrew, a local hiker from the Phoenix area, and he's got a really cool story about how he got into nude hiking and really non-textual nudity. But before we jump in, I do want to quickly clarify something. I mentioned during this episode at one point I referenced game cameras and hunter game cameras. I misspoke there. Hunters are not allowed to use game cameras in the state of Arizona for the purpose of hunting. So if you do come across a game camera out in the wild, it's much more likely that it's going to be used by like wildlife photographers, researchers, or fishing game officials. So not actual hunters actively hunting. I just wanted to clear that up so everyone has the right information. Now, in this conversation, Andrew Scared's journey from the first bold moment of jumping into a pool naked to getting out on the trails and fully embracing the experience of being in nature without clothes. We talk about what that shift looked like for him mentally, physically, and emotionally, and how it's helped him build more self-acceptance and confidence in his own body. We also get into some really practical stuff too, like tips for staying faithful, hiking nude, and how to navigate being out in public spaces. If you've ever been curious about what nude hiking or just looking to feel more comfortable in your own skin, this episode is going to give you a real honest look at what that journey can look like. So let's get into it. How's it going, Andrew? Welcome to the show. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Yeah, glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Absolutely. Um, can you tell listeners a little bit about yourself and kind of where you're calling from today?

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Yeah. Uh I am in sunny Phoenix, Arizona. It's it's pretty hot today. Um, but it's like that. It just kind of happens this part of the year. So from now until October, it will just remain hot. Um, but yeah, um really lovely place if you haven't ever been to it. There's a lot more than just sand and cactus here. A lot of people think there's just uh barren wasteland everywhere. And yeah, we we do have a little bit of that here, but uh it's it's really beautiful at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

It's a it's a it's a cool space. Um, it's a cool state, I mean. Um when I first moved down here, I thought that I was moving to Death Valley, and then I got down here and realized how green and alive the desert is. So I am right there, right there in that group, too. Um so I've been like really looking forward to speaking with you because your story is a little bit different um in the way that you got into non-sexual nudity. Can you walk me through how you first encountered non-sexual nudity and and got into it?

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Yeah, uh it's actually a really hilarious and funny story. Um I had just recently moved to Phoenix and I was at a friend's house. We had a bunch of people over. This was a good 15 years ago, probably 15, 16 years ago. Um, we had a bunch of people at the house. We had a very a very spacious backyard with a a really nice pool, and we had we had room to have a lot of people over, and and and you know, when you first move to a new place, like one of the first things that you want to do is is network and find some new people. Yep. So I I I met up with this with this particular person and we became very, very good friends, and we still are to this day. And he said, Hey, I'm gonna have a party, like bring some drinks over, let's hang out. Uh and so I did and went over to the house and and they were playing beer pong, uh, which if you think back 15 years, that was a very popular activity 15 years ago. I wouldn't be able to do it now. Um, but yeah, 15 years ago I was I was ready for it, and there was this really attractive girl uh that I had to play against, and so she was on my side of the table, and I told her that if we lost, I would jump in the pool naked, thinking I wasn't going to lose.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Oh, that's hysterical.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Sure enough, we ended up losing, not intentionally, but we did end up losing. Um, and she thought it was really funny to hold me to that particular that particular sentiment. That's funny. Yeah. And at the time, the pool at this house had not been cleaned in probably six months. So it was it looked straight up like an alligator farm. Like it probably just green. It may have had tadpoles in it, I'm not sure. So that was that was the the really scary part of of of the bet was that I was gonna jump into this nasty green pool.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

So it wasn't wasn't the naked part. It was the pool that was.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

I was really interested in this girl, and we had we had talked a few times before this, and my friend had mentioned that she was going to be there, so obviously I had to make sure I was there, and uh rumor had it at the time that she also had a little bit of interest in me, but she didn't want to lead that on. So I I figured a way to make myself a little bit more memorable was to put something on the table that would kind of separate me from the crowd, so to speak. And yeah, I I I did, you know. Um we ended up losing, and as I she she was holding me to it, and and and bless her heart for it. Um, so as I was getting ready to to get my clothes off and jump in the pool, she decided to get naked with me, and we both jumped in the pool holding hands at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Oh, awesome!

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Yeah, and yeah, it was an experience. I don't think I would jump into a green pool again, uh, especially not that one. Um, but the really fun part of that story is that that girl and I have now been married for 14 years.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Dude, congratulations. That's awesome. What a story, too. Um, were you like before that point? Did you ever do anything like that before?

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Or was this kind of like the very first uh okay never had done anything like that ever before?

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Interesting. So just spur of the moment, you what what made you feel like oh I'm gonna do this, and like were you uncomfortable at all, or just you were very uncomfortable?

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Very uncomfortable. Yep, there was a lot of people there that I didn't know all that well, so I didn't quite have a really good comfort level with with people, at at least at that level, anyway. Yeah, but you know, uh a bet's a bet, you know. I had to I had to show this girl that I was a man of my word. There you go. That was more important to me uh than my my personal level of of uncomfortability.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Gotcha. So from that moment um jumping in the nasty pool, how did you eventually turn that moment into going on your first nude hike? Like what led you to that point? Um, probably let's see, what year is it now?

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Um probably six years ago or so. Um I I I came to a a nominal birthday. I won't say which one, but it is a nominal birthday that a lot of people recognize. And we we have our our own pool at our at our house, and had come to a a point with that specific birthday where I really had I had decided to just kind of accept the way that the way that I looked and the way that that my physique is structured. Um and I hadn't really come to terms with that before then. So that was just kind of something I was like, oh, I'm I'm this many years old now. Like, it doesn't get better from here. So I just kind of I just kind of you know I I took my pride and I swallowed it a little bit, and um, and you know, uh living here, we can we can go hiking a lot more of the year than a lot of other places. So so with that birthday, I I I just kind of accepted myself. I was I just said, you know, I don't necessarily have to be, you know, ashamed of myself or anything, but you know, I'm I'm this age and I should I should have accepted myself by now. So I just consciously made the choice to do that. And and it really it really changed uh it changed my outlook on a lot of things. So it was it was a yeah, it was a really it was a really important time for me. And yeah, I just uh I went out one day, I went to a uh a trail that was not not very difficult to get to. It's actually really easy. Um and I went out like I don't know, half a mile, a mile or so, and I was the only car in the parking lot, and just thought to myself, you know what? No one else is around. I could give this a shot.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yeah. And I did. That's awesome. The if if you said something just a second ago I want to bounce back to before we continue on to your hiking story. Um you said that that it helped you I should have just written it down. You came to terms with how you look and that it helped you kind of move through that period. Um, what were some of like the limiting beliefs or things that were going on internally that you had to grapple with and come to terms with? Well, this is who I am and what I look like, and it is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Yeah, you know, it's it's human nature to put yourself onto a comparison pedestal to ideal body types, shapes, things like that. You want to remain an attractive person for your partner. Um sometimes life and cheesecake gets in the way of those things. Uh amen. You know? Um and at that particular time, I had I had to buy a new swimsuit. I had gone on a business trip and they had a hot tub, and I completely forgot to bring uh a swimsuit. So I I went to the the local Ross dressed for less. If you have those in your area, you know what I mean. Um went to the local Ross, I found a pair of shorts that I thought would fit. I tried them on in the fitting room, and I realized that I was no longer a medium, now a large. And for a person of my my size, I'm only about 5'7. So for a person of my size, wearing large uh swim trunks was just kind of like, oh, I'm I'm there.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

So yeah, and that was just kind of where I was like, oh, I should probably do something about that. But at the same time, I can accept myself for I'm I'm not gonna get any taller. I'm not gonna become a super uh you know, chiseled, ripped, you know, Greek god or anything like that. Like yeah, I'm I'm just a dude that has reached a particular age and and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

So that was kind of real life looks like.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah, yeah, it was just kind of like a a a here's where you are moment.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

But it was a really good one.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Oh, that's awesome. So you confronted those feelings that were going on inside of you, and you decided, you know what, I'm gonna go hike. So you went about a mile and a half down this trail and kind of specifically walk me through that. Were you nervous of getting caught or in trouble or anything like that when you first went out there? 100%. Yeah. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Any person that has ever gone on their first nude hike or taken their clothes, clothes off in some place they wouldn't normally immediately has that thought. Like, yeah, I know I'm the only car in the parking lot, I'm the only person here, but there's probably 50 people that are gonna spring up from behind a cactus and I'm gonna get in trouble for this. Like, that was my first thought, you know? Yep.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

How long did it take you to stop looking around? Uh over your shoulder.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

To this day, I still don't stop doing that. It's it's just a thing, you know. Um, we have we have some particular standards uh to which people get held for certain things in in our society, and men are held to a different standard, understandably, uh in in regards to uh states of undress versus women. There's I I I understand it, I get it, I'm not saying that it's wrong, but but there is a uh you know, men are held to a different a different level of that kind of how do I say it, um looking down your nose through the glasses, you know?

SPEAKER_03 15:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

I think that's probably a good way to say it. Whereas if you encountered a an undressed woman on a hiking trail, not many people would think much of it. They would just be like, oh, she's feeling great about herself.

SPEAKER_04 15:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

But you come across an undressed man and it's like, oh, he's he's a weirdo. He well, look at this creep.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Yep. Yeah, and it they make it, they make it, I say they people make it um with naked men, rightfully so, but they make it predatory in the way that oh well he's out here hiking, he must be doing something creepy. Whereas a woman, it's like, oh, well, she's having fun, she's just free-spirited. Um that's not all the time, but but that's definitely the vibe. Um when you're out.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

And and I like I said, I I understand it. I understand that there are a very, very small percentage of people that have just kind of ruined that uh that that image um or that availability for people, but you know, at the same time, like kind of have to give people a little bit of a chance to to show that they're they're actually doing something incorrect or or wrong. Right. Right. They're that their their intentions are not, you know, ill by any means.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Yep. Um when you go out hiking, you actually get out quite a bit um from your places. I try to. Um do you do scouting for those locations, like on uh like Google Earth or anything like that, or is this kind of like you know trails and you're going and kind of jumping off of trails to your areas?

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Yep, I absolutely do. Um I try to I try to find places that are not super easy to get to all the time or places that have really small parking lots. Um mainly because I know smaller the parking lot, the less people. Um the farther away from a freeway, the less likely it is that someone else might be there. Um I try to find places that are a little bit out of the way. So yeah, a lot of the places that I go, it it's it's it's researched first. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Do you do you do I when I go out, I'll research and then sometimes if I'm really unfamiliar with the area, I'll go out and hike it clothed first and then be like, okay, well this is a solid spot. I'm gonna come back here, or do you just hit it and and strip off?

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Nope. I I do it the same way you do. Um there's nothing there's nothing more scary than being in a place that you're unfamiliar with and not really knowing where you are or how to get back to your car or you know, the trail or or whatever it is. So yeah, I'll definitely I'll definitely go to that place first and walk it a couple times and kind of familiarize myself with with where I am on a trail um before I I really kind of try to get free with it.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Yeah, I mean it's something that I think about too when I go out is I like walking it clothed beforehand just to make sure that there's no like game agency trail cameras or hunter cameras. Yeah too. I uh yesterday I went hiking down into this canyon um and it was like I hadn't been there before, so I kind of walked down naked and then put my sarong on and walked down in the woods, but it was like you could tell people went down there and hunted. So I was I was keeping my eyes open for cameras yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

For sure, for sure. Yeah, and you know, again, it kind of goes back to you know, if the trail cameras caught you know a woman doing that, no one would think much about it, but you were you were me doing that, and it's all of a sudden it's a different uh it's a different story.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Yeah, yeah. Um which is unfortunate. Yeah it's unfortunate that uh a couple you know shitty people ruin it for people that are just genuine trying to be out there and enjoying enjoying stuff. Um do you have like do you take a backpack or gear and has that evolved over your course of hiking?

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Yeah, I usually have my camera bag. Uh I got a a nice um a nice Canon DLSLR or just various desert scape photos. Um, I've really gotten into photography in the last year or so uh or last couple years actually. I finally bought a nice camera last year. Um but one of my favorite things to do is to get out during sunrise hours and and try to get some really great, you know, sun sunrise pictures. Uh if you've never seen an Arizona sunrise or an Arizona sunset, they are just breathtaking every single day. Uh they're always a little bit different. The scenery here provides so many options uh for just really, really beautiful photography. And the landscape here is just it's unlike anywhere else in the world. So um a lot of my family does not live here. Uh they live in other places. So one of my favorite things to do is to get out and get pictures throughout the year, and I make a landscape calendar without me on it. I should clarify. Um, I make a landscape calendar for everybody, uh, and that's my Christmas gift to all of my family members every year in December.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

Oh, very cool.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

I take one one or more really good pictures from every month of the year, and that's what I make the calendar out of. So every sort of January is full of January photos, and February is full of February photos, and so they can kind of see what we see throughout the year. Um no, no, not a lot of people really use paper calendars anymore, but we're uh all of my family members are also at the age where they just they don't need stuff anymore. Yep. So just something they can hang on the wall and toss out at the end of the year is is perfect.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Oh, I love that idea.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

It's been really fun. It's been really fun.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Do you uh do you also do like nude photography? Have you dabbled in taking pictures of like uh just like a naturist or nude people out on the landscape too?

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Yeah, I would I really want to. Um, I'd really like to to have that opportunity. Um landscapes are really pretty. Uh I think I've used my really nice camera enough to really be familiar with it now and I know what it can do. Um, versus if you had asked me that question a year ago, I'd be like, uh, no. I don't know what I'm doing. Um, but I I have a much better sense of of what I'm doing with this equipment now. So um yeah, that's definitely something I would I would like to do and I would definitely be open to, uh, whether it's you know, singles, couples, whoever, um, yeah, it's something I'd I would like to kind of expand upon.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Oh, that's awesome. I uh I may take you up on that someday.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Don't go on like a badass hike.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Um other stuff that I bring with me. Yeah, I do bring a little drawstring backpack, uh, and I just keep my my keys and my wallet and sunscreen and you know, just stuff, just small stuff with me, but it's usually that and my camera bag and two and I always carry two tripods, one for cell phone and one for good camera.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Nice. That's awesome. Um when you're out, are you moving the whole time or are you stopping a lot and taking pictures and kind of poking around and exploring? I'm just totally curious.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Yeah, I I stop a lot. You never know when you're just gonna turn your head to the right or turn your head to the left, and you're like, oh, that's a picture. Yep. You just never know. And sometimes walking 10 feet in one direction changes the whole look of the entire picture. So that is so true. Sometimes I can spot stuff from really far away, too, where I'm like, oh, that actually would be really good. Let me let me get my long telephoto lens for that and see if I can frame this whole thing. And my dad was a photographer for a long time, so he's actually been really excited to get just random pictures from me of hikes that I've taken. And he always looks forward to these calendars now every year too, because you know, he sees his his his son who never took an interest in photography in the previous many years of his life, and now is all of a sudden interested in it. And I I yeah, I I think he's I think he gets kind of proud of that.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

So that's so cool, man.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Yeah, that's super neat.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

That's awesome. Um with regards to your like naked adventures, does your family know about that? Like if you talked to your dad about that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

No, that's uh it's just kind of a me thing. Okay. Cool, cool. It's it's it's it's a me thing. I don't think they would frown upon it necessarily, but at the same time, yeah, they kind of might be like, um, okay, all right, I guess. I don't think they would get it.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Yeah, I I have a couple family members like that. Have you had any negative experiences like while you're out on the trail or any moments where you've accidentally been taught? You have not?

SPEAKER_00 25:33

No, I have not. I actually had one occasion where I where I almost got caught, and it was it was on a trail that I that I I like to go to as uh frequently. It's really great for for sunrises and stuff. Um, and it was one of the first few times I had actually really gotten out and gotten real free with it, and I was coming up part of uh an incline, and this mountain biker just came out of nowhere. He was hauling ass. And I by the time I saw him, I had I just jumped to the right and like hid behind a bush. Uh it didn't provide a lot of cover, but it was all I had. And as he went whizzing past me at full tilt, he goes, Hey, it's a nice day, have a great day. He just kept going. So I was like, All right, well, uh I'll uh that that I can deal with that. Yeah, he seems chill. Yep, yep. But it's it's not a trail that a lot of people go to a lot. Um, it is frequented by mountain bikers I have discovered over the past couple years, but um for the most part it's it's it's pretty open. Um you can you can kind of wander off the trail quite a ways and still kind of know where the trail is. And yeah, it's it it's it's pretty great. It's one of my favorite spots.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

That's super cool. Have you done any um like naked night hiking on full moons?

SPEAKER_00 27:09

I have not. Um the only night hike I ever took was in Hawaii and it was at Manoa Falls.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Manoa Falls.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

If you've yeah, if you've seen pictures of it. Um it's the it's the really, really tall waterfall with a big pond at the bottom of it. Um if you look it up on Google, you'll know you'll see what I mean. Um wife and I went out there um 2021 for our uh nine-year wedding anniversary. Nice and we we met up with some locals at the beach. Um, and we told them, you know, we were you know hanging out here for the week, and uh, you know, some of the plans that we had included Manila Falls, and they're like, wait, don't go yet, go on Wednesday. And we were like, why Wednesday? And they're like, it's gonna be a full moon. Um, nice. And we were like, well, we can't get out there at night. Like that was that we don't have a car. All we have is these mopeds that we rented. Uh, and by the way, if you've never rented mopeds in Hawaii, very worth it. Um, so they offered to come back to the beach Wednesda that Wednesday night, and they came and picked us up. They took us out to Manoa Falls, and we hiked all the way to Manoa Falls under a full moon, and it was absolutely incredible. Um, they they brought food and drinks, and we all just kind of sat on a blanket and we splashed in the water under a full moon, and we ate snacks and we talked about all kinds of stuff, and they gave us a ride back to their hotel. We could not have paid money for that experience. It was unreal.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Oh, that sounds awesome.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

It was unreal.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Oh man, I love that. Um what's been your favorite kind of like nude hike or naked adventure that you've gone on so far?

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Hmm probably actually getting my wife to go with me to a nude resort. That was probably that's probably been the the the pinnacle achievement was to get her to come with me.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

How did uh how'd that how'd that go?

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Uh it involved uh some shots of tequila to loosen her up. Gotcha. Uh she's as as many women are, she is not she's not exactly favorable of her physique either. You know, many many women have have that that complex about it, and I understand it and I respect it. Um But for my birthday one year, she said, What do you want to do? And I said, I want to go to this place. And she goes, Well, that's that's that looks like a nude resort. And I was like, It is, and I think we should do it. So she said, Okay, that's what you want to do for your birthday, we will do it. So we booked a room and we drove to the place and we still stopped at a grocery store before we made it to the resort, and we got some some adult beverages and we got some food to eat because uh at at the time um none of the restaurants were open due to the pandemic. So the on-site restaurant that they had was closed, the the bar was closed, you had to bring all your own stuff anyway, and that was fun. Um, so we stopped and got some beverages, and and we got all checked into our room and everything, and she saw people just walking around naked, and so she kind of was like, Okay, like I'm seeing it, I get it. Um, and I was like, Well, you ready to go chill by the pool for a little bit? This this was this was in August, so very warm here.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

Yeah, pretty hot.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Uh very, very warm. So she's like, All right, like we got all sunscreened up and we did the thing. We grabbed a towel, and and she's like, she's like, Do I need to bring like a cover up or anything? And I was like, babe, we're at a nude resort. Yep, you don't have to wear anything that you don't want to wear. So, whatever comfort level you are at is totally okay if you feel better about wearing a cover up until we get to the pool, that's fine. So she did, and a couple of a couple of shots at tequila down the hatch, and we were on her uh making our way over to the pool, and and that that cover up didn't last very long because you could see there was a lot of other body shapes and body types and people of various ages. Um and it did not take her long. Uh, if if you ever met my wife, you would know this how true this is, but um didn't make her long, uh didn't take her long to to make a new friend. Uh, and they immediately got into a conversation about all kinds of things, and she just completely forgot that she wasn't wearing any clothes at that particular time. She just didn't didn't really think about it. But that was a that was a really, really fun weekend. Um, and it was important for me to um just just because we could we could share that experience together. Um, I wish we could share that experience a little bit more regularly. Um, but we we can't have we we can't do a lot of new to be at home because we do have uh a live-in elderly person with us, and yeah, kind of puts the kibosh on those kinds of things. But but when that person is gone from our home for any number of days visiting other family members or something like that, then she kind of you know looks around in the backyard to see if anyone's watching, and she'll kind of slide into the pool too. Um, so it at least she's open to doing that when the opportunity presents itself. So I'm grateful for it.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Oh, that's awesome that she's willing to, you know, do that with you and and kind of open it up, open up slowly to it. Um could you describe the experience, kind of what the differences are for someone that's never been to like a clothing optional or nude resort and being naked out on like public lands in the desert or the forest?

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Yeah. Your your first time doing any of those things is a little scary. It feels weird, it feels like you shouldn't be doing it. But especially when you go to nude resorts, like that's the whole idea behind it is that you can do that, that's what it's for. Um, so really trying to just accept the fact that you know you you may not look like a chiseled model. There's not gonna be anybody there that does. You know, um, we all have different body shapes and types and builds, and um some people have tattoos, some people like to wear assorted other jewelry, um, you know, all of it's okay. You know, everybody's there to just enjoy the opportunity to to shed the clothing and and you know, sun's out, buns out, as the saying goes. Um just go and enjoy it. Like give it give it a chance. It's not it's not the swingers thing that a lot of people think resorts like that are full of. Are they present? Yes, they are, but no one is going to approach you and say, Hey, I got an idea. Uh that doesn't it doesn't happen. And all the years I've been going to um various nude resorts at in various states that have never happened to me. So um I say just just give it a chance. You know, you you could go by yourself, maybe you got a friend that you're comfortable with, but just go and give it a shot. Go and give it a try. If it's not for you, then that's okay. But expect yourself to be a little bit nervous. That's okay. That's understandable. It's you're doing something new. Um, the first time anyone goes skydiving, they're probably nervous as hell. Uh, the first time I drove a car on a public road, I was nervous as hell. So the first time that you do anything in your life is always gonna be a little bit nerve-wracking, but you know, you gotta give it a shot, you gotta give it a try, and you know, it will it it could grow on you if it's something that you end up enjoying.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

I like that answer. I like that. Uh it's so true. Because you never know. So you talk about um self-acceptance. Uh how has nudity and specifically kind of nude hiking, being naked out in nature, helped you with your self-acceptance and overall love for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Well, as as I previously stated, a particular birthday came about and I realized just how dad bod I had gotten, and it actually, you know, I stood naked in front of the mirror, and I just had I had to like look at myself, like that's what I look like. And I wasn't entirely happy with how everything looked. So it did inspire me to really focus a lot more on taking better physical care of myself, eating better things. Um, I started going to the gym every day at five o'clock in the morning. Um, I lost probably 30 pounds. I stopped drinking soda in 2014. That was a big one. Um, so I lost a lot of weight. I I got myself into a physique that I really felt good about, but I still felt good about my person too. Um so when I did go out and do those things, you know, I felt I felt better about how others might perceive me. And that that boosted my self-esteem, knowing that you know, I I looked like I cared about myself. And, you know, well like I said, it doesn't it doesn't get better as you get older. It gets harder to keep yourself in good shape and in good health, and it becomes more of a challenge every single year. So getting myself into that routine of you know going to the gym and doing 20 minutes of stretching, just stretching, not even lifting any weights, running, anything like that, just just stretching um really made me physically feel a lot better. And when you physically feel good and you're putting good fuel into your body, it makes your mental game go way up too. So it it it's all it's all correlated, all of it ties together.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

So you know, being able to, you know, I I play ice hockey on Saturday mornings with a bunch of other 40 plus guys, and it's really fun. Um, we're not competitive, we don't have penalties, and no one really keeps score. But the fact that all of us are able to just get together and even just still play at all, like that's the best part. It's the best part. It's a great workout. I usually burn 500 calories in a game, um, and it's fun. So I try to keep myself really active as as much as I can because it makes me feel good.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Mm-hmm. That's awesome. That's all really good um advice for really anyone. Um because it's it's so true because as you age. I'm going through it now. I'm pulling like my lower back and my shoulder more. And it's like I had to go to someone to give me the tools to stretch and started doing yoga kind of similarly, because if you don't, you start to just wither away. You lose all your muscle tone, and it's a lot harder.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Yeah, you get you get atrophied to to an extent, you know. Um, you know, I didn't set any records when I lift weights or anything, but all of it is for flexibility. Um, my wife and I have some really fantastic future plans that I want to make sure that we are able to carry out. And I I don't want to I don't want to get to a point where we can't pursue those goals or those dreams because one of us has a bum knee, you know. Uh I don't I don't want that to be the thing that limits us. Like we want to be able to go and do the things and and and stay active and you know, we I don't know if you've ever seen um blue zones in the world. There's five blue zones where people are more likely to live to be a hundred more than anywhere else in the world.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

And it's because one of them is Okinawa, Japan. And the reason that these people in this area tend to live to be a hundred is because they stay active. They they grow their own food and they eat their own food that they grow, and they're out there on their hands and knees, and they're bending down, and they're tending to the garden, and they have something to keep them busy, and they're staying flexible, and they're carrying buckets of water or dirt, and you know, they're just staying acty active and they're eating good food. Yeah. So I want that to happen to us too.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

It sounds like a solid, solid plan, if you ask me. Just getting healthy and and doing what you're doing. That's awesome, dude.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Um it doesn't get better. You've got to make it better.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

No one's coming to save you. You have to do it yourself.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

Uh is there anything that you see in kind of the nudist hiker world or naturist world that you see it as like a common mistake people make when they get into this um type of activity?

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Yeah, I think the b the biggest mistake is thinking that you can just go to any piece of land anywhere and just do it and there's no consequences. That's a big one. Yeah. Um another one is that it's welcomed everywhere, but I can assure you that it's not. Um and that um I think another misconception about all of this is that everyone has ill intent behind meetups. Like you can kind of tell who the people are that have specific intentions behind being the nice person they appear to be. Yeah. Um, I think it's pretty obvious it to tell. Um, but also there's a much larger percentage of this community that is wholesome and well-intended and is very welcoming, uh, is very friendly. Um, and they will totally give you a beer out of their cooler. Um, they'll throw you some sunscreen if you run out. Um, there's it's a a lot like any other widespread interest, there is a very uh a very welcoming sense to to the community when you when you find the right people.

SPEAKER_04 43:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

And there's a lot of really great people. There's a particular resort that I don't live too far from that I have a membership at. Um and I don't really chit chat with a ton of people there, but when when people do approach, like they're always really nice. Like I had a lady give me some random jewelry that she made. She's like, I've been trying to get rid of this jewelry, and uh just take a couple of pieces, and I was like, Okay, like I don't need this jewelry, but you know, she was really nice about it. And there's been a couple of times where like you could hear my sunscreen bottle, you know, acting like a ketchup bottle, like it was just way down at the bottom, you know. And this guy behind me um kind of tapped me on the shoulder and he goes, Here, I have fifteen and I have thirty, and I have you know, fifty if you want it. And I was like Oh, like thanks. I appreciate that. I didn't ask. Um, but he he he noticed and he offered, and I thought that was really cool. So that's really cool. Um, you know, that the this community is a lot a lot more ingrained and a lot more well intended than than I think people really realize.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's those are all great points. Um I want to bounce back to the first point real quick about legality and land use. Um, I try and hike on BLM land or national forest land just because they have the most lenient written law. It doesn't specifically say no non-sexual nudity, so it kind of falls into that gray area. Um do you have a better way of explaining that?

SPEAKER_00 44:50

Um BLM land is probably my preference too. Um BLM land is is policed by the county sheriff. So any laws that you may break on BLM land are subject to, you know, the particular sheriff that you might deal with. So, you know, the the the the rules on on nudity are not expressly defined, but if someone sees you and they are reasonably offended or have a reasonable um warrant for being offended, then you you can get in trouble for that. So, but you you I think you really have to make an effort to offend somebody. Um in that kind of a case, you know? Um yeah, it's you know, state land is a little different too. State land is specifically covered by whatever the state law is. BLM can also uh do the same thing. They can say, well, you know, the county has decided to follow state law on this, and so yeah, you just kind of have to be careful. Um you can't, you know, I've I've had people message me and they're like, so where did you leave your clothes while you went hiking? Like, no, they're with me. I didn't just hang the tree and just run away. Like, yeah, uh, that's not that's not what happens here. Like, you can't do that. Um, you have to have some kind of a cover-up with you, whether it's you know, uh a pair of you know, loose-fitting like mesh gym shorts that you can just throw on, or like you mentioned earlier, like a sarong. Like, I love sarongs, they're great. Very breathable and it just it is very comfortable to wear. Um, but yeah, you you don't you don't just throw your clothes into a tree and run away. Very much so.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

You're gonna find an answer you don't like.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

Um, for sure. You're gonna end up on a list.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

Yeah, exactly. Um and look stupid.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Is there anything that we didn't speak about today that you want to bring up or that you would want to talk about before we kind of sign off?

SPEAKER_00 47:19

No, I don't think so. I I think you uh you had some really good some really good questions that that dive uh a lot deeper into what it looks like on the surface. Um no pun intended.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Well, right on. Uh Andrew. It was really fun. Yeah, it was. Thank you for this conversation. It was great getting to talk to you. Um, I really like your journey and I like the way that you're representing non sexual nudity and naked hiking, and I love seeing your posts. So um thank you. I I really I really appreciate you coming on and talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

Yeah, for sure. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

I really enjoyed this conversation with Andrew. I think what stood out to me most is how simple but powerful this journey can be and just getting outside and letting go of the pressures and learning to accept yourself as you are. It doesn't have to be like this big extreme change. It can start with one small step, just like it did for him. If you got some value out of this episode, share it with someone who might need to hear it, or someone you've been wanting to have this conversation with. And as always, if you're out there exploring nude hiking for yourself, do it safely, be respectful, and represent this community well. Make sure you're following his shows so you don't miss any future episodes, and if you want to connect, reach out on Instagram. Until next time, get naked, be free, and be kind. See ya.