Dont Shoot The Messenger

Do You Need the CFP Qualification to Be a Successful Financial Planner?

• Chris Ball • Season 1 • Episode 10

Share episode

Is the Certified Financial Planner (CFP) qualification worth the significant time investment? In this revealing episode, we dive deep into what it really takes to achieve financial planning's highest credential and whether it actually matters for your career success.

For those considering the qualification, this episode offers invaluable insights into the potential salary uplift (with chartered and certified planners commanding up to £100,000 compared to £35,000-£60,000 for those with basic qualifications), employer support for the qualification process, and the practical benefits in day-to-day client work.

Whether you're early in your financial planning career or considering your next professional development step, this honest conversation will help you determine if the master's-level CFP qualification deserves a place in your career strategy.

Subscribe now for more insights that help you build a thriving financial planning practice.

If you want to see what life in Hoxton Wealth is like, please visit: / @hoxtonlife

For more information on Hoxton Wealth careers, please https://www.careers-page.com/hoxtonwealth.com


For my videos by Chris, please visit his Youtube: ⁨@ChrisBallHoxton⁩

Speaker 1:

So welcome back to Don't Shoot the Messenger with me, chris Ball and JJ. I have with me today one of my esteemed colleagues who runs our UK business. So many people ask do you really need the CFP to build a great financial planning career? In the UK there's about 35,000 to 40,000 financial planners, so do you need the CFP to be a billion-dollar advisor? I think it shows you're committed to what you do yeah, your trade, will your firm pay for the exams as well? So I started my own business yeah, and signed up for CFP at the same time, which was terrible timing. Going through the qualifications is not going to teach you how to do that. Get that master's level qualification. That's why I think this profession is really special. Yeah, because you don't necessarily have to have a super academic background. So you're an Excel whiz as well. Get Charlie in here testing you soon. Yeah, I wouldn't like to go up against Charlie, to be honest. So welcome back to Don't Shoot the Messenger with me, chris, chris Ball and JJ. I have with me today one of my esteemed colleagues who runs our UK business, and today we've got a really special one how to become a certified financial planner. So many people ask do you really need the CFP to build a great financial planning career. Today we're going deep on what it takes to become a certified financial planner, what exams do and don't give you, and whether you actually need them to succeed. We'll cover everything you need to know how much can cfps make, how long it takes, what the exam process is like and some of the things nobody tells you before you sign up.

Speaker 1:

Now, interestingly enough, I'm not a cfp, so I don't hold my cfp qualification. However, uh, lucky for me, jj does. So it's not, it's not no one, it's not someone talking to you as who has never done it. Uh, we have the expert, we've got the expert with me, so let's kick off jj. Like, define cfp in simple terms. Uh, for me, simple terms. I would say uh, the only real, globally recognized financial planning qualification, yeah, and for me, a bit biased, uh, the pinnacle of the profession. Well, it is really, isn't it? Yes, it's the highest level qualification, yeah, it's.

Speaker 1:

And so in the uk it goes level four, which is the basic qualifications you need. Level six, correct? Uh, which is charted, I don't need. Level seven, is cfb correct? Um, which is pretty cool, but how many people roughly have it in the uk. In the uk there's about 35 to 40 000 financial planners, yeah, and there are about a thousand, well, almost a thousand, on them on the nose, so about two percent roughly. There were there about of uh two to three percent of planners actually hold it, which actually does put you in the kind of elite status, doesn't it? But then we was also talking about the us as well, because so obviously at the moment, going over to the us a lot and looking and and seeing what's happening over in the us, but there is a lot of uh planners in the us with it versus that in the uk, isn't it? Yeah for sure. So it's not been as recognized in the uk.

Speaker 1:

Really, the cfp qualification it's not been something that's um, been massively pushed or or spoken about. What do you think that is uh? Because the pinnacle has always been that. Look, I think a lot of people in the uk have been level four qualified, um. There was no need to be level four qualified until about 12 or 15 years ago, yeah, rdr um. So then everyone became level four qualified and then it was uh. People move into chartered and chartered has been seen as that golden standard.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think that's changing a little bit now, with people spending a bit more time looking at things like the US and seeing this CFP qualification of being globally recognized, and and yet I think now people are becoming more and more aware of it, so people are talking about it more. Now, people are becoming more and more aware of it, so people are talking about it more. It's interesting, isn't it? Because actually, when we were, when we were talking about it, I was saying that a few people uh within our business who are not cfp qualified have said they've actually lost uh, taking on clients versus someone who is cfp qualified. Uh, so when they've been in the us uh, it was in the us was one of them.

Speaker 1:

She was actually a lady in the uk and she had, uh, she had us assets, um, and the advisor, her old advisor, had a cfp qualification. Yeah, uh, who was based in the us, wasn't based in the uk and she was interested in moving away because they can manage her uk assets, but only wanted to work with the cfp sure, well, if you look at the percentage versus the us, there's about 270 000 uh us qualified advisors and over a hundred thousand, over a hundred thousand of them are cfp. So it's nearly a third is. Yeah, it was over a third. It's um, it's crazy, isn't it? Well, I think the minimum standard for advice globally, um, particularly in places like the uk, australia, us I think the the benchmark is is leveling up. People now are expected really to get to chartered, at least in the uk.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think you will see that shift towards fp at some stage. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? It's like whether, because obviously a lot of people just go and get their level four qualification, so I've got a level six qualification, the pension transfer one and then I kind of went and did other exams us exams, european exams, australian exams and I said to myself this year I'm going to do the cfp. It's not happened. I'll hold my hands up. I've flopped massively and and let myself down there.

Speaker 1:

But, um, it's like, definitely is the, definitely is the profession is becoming more, um, professional. I would say, you know, gone are the days when you know financial advisors I feel in the uk had a bit of a bad name. Yeah, now it's a much more respected profession. Um, and it feels like you know, when you go and, uh, see an accountant, they're, you know, chartered. Typically. You go and see a lawyer, they've obviously done a hell of. Typically, you go and see a lawyer. They've obviously done a hell of a lot of training to become a lawyer and now with a financial planner, this is just like really the you know. This is what you should be aiming for and having. Yeah, I think that's a really good point.

Speaker 1:

Actually, with the sort of chartered accountants. I think that may be why chartered as a title in the UK for UK financial planners, as we try and make it more of a profession. I think that's maybe why because people associate chartered accountancy and chartered um engineers and all that sort of stuff. Chartered seems to be something that people aspire to and and and it carries a lot of credibility and weight. Yeah, so maybe that's why, um, but yeah, it's interesting, I think, um, as you, as you look at the profession or the industry to profession, as people have called it, if you look at the us, for example, it's exactly the same but earlier, so everything kind of follows the us. Well, you look at the history of the uk you 20, 30 years ago with your life insurance salesman knocking daughter or the norwich union guys and whatever, and then it's moved more into that qualified profession and we're seeing that level up and you'll see that take over globally. I think yeah.

Speaker 1:

Why do you think clients value it more? I think it shows you're committed to what you do, your trade. I don't think it. Clients don't really know what it means. They don't know the qualifications that you've had to go through and the exams you've got to go through. But just having that chartered title suggests to people that you take what you do very seriously. Yeah, really committed, and I think that's really what matters with clients. Yeah, it's credibility, isn't it? It definitely builds credibility. It signals you're competent. Yeah, you can't have gone through all those exams and be thick For you. Internationally, there's not a huge amount of chartered advisors.

Speaker 1:

Why did you want to do it? I wanted to do it because it's the pinnacle, like you said, when I look at it, I go, yeah, okay, we were talking as well and I was saying you know, if there was an advisor, you know, if I was speaking to two advisors, both equal one had it, one didn't I would go for the one that had it. Yeah, for sure, um. So for me it was. You know, I enjoy taking exams. I enjoy learning. It's obviously extremely relevant to our business, sure, um? Therefore, if I expect others, you know, so, the people that we're putting through the pathway at the moment, I mean, I want them, yeah, to become cfps.

Speaker 1:

It would be great, with this new cohort, if we could have four that step out with cfp status and that and we put them through that and they've got that for the rest of their life. Um, um, I can't ask them to do it if I haven't got it myself. This is my is my way of saying it, but then also, it is a, it is a matter of time and it does take a lot of dedication and a lot of time away from client work. Uh, it's difficult to do. Uh, difficult to do both, isn't it? Which is probably why you want to do it earlier, earlier on in your career.

Speaker 1:

Like, how, how did you get? Like, what, what is the exam routes? Like, how, like talk me through when you was, because you did it when you use it, investec, didn't you? Uh, I actually did it after investor. I didn't, I did, yeah, I didn't. At the time, I was terrible. So I started my own business, yeah, and signed up for cfp, which was terrible timing. Um, yeah, I, I kept kicking the can down the road, so I I personally went down the longest route, not necessarily because I initially I didn't know about CFP, it was only as I kind of went through my career. So I got.

Speaker 1:

I was with a small IFA, I got level four qualified with the Chartered Insurance Institute, cii, which is six exams R01 to R06. It covers all the basics of financial planning and I, literally, I actually went through that in seven months. Yeah, exams r01 to r06 yeah, it was all the basics of financial planning and I, literally, I actually went through that in seven months. Yeah, uh, and I was like, well, I've failed my a levels, I don't have a degree. Yeah, um, I need to keep the ball rolling because I can't go outside of this. Um, you know, being in that exam mindset. Yeah, so I just went.

Speaker 1:

I was like, okay, I want to get chartered. Yeah, I want to look after higher net worth clients. I'm going to need to get chartered to be able to do that. And so I went straight into my chartered exams. Yeah, with CII, you have to get a number of credits. Yeah, there's 290 credits to get chartered, which basically consists of about 15 exams in total. Yeah, so, including that six, so there was around eight, nine exams further to do to get the credits needed, and of that you need to get four chartered exams, so the af qualifications, and they're in different subject areas. So you've got uh, tax and trust, pensions, um and broader lifestyle financial planning.

Speaker 1:

So I went down the chartered route, but as, as I'd stepped into investor, I was doing that while I was at investec, the chartered chartered route, which is, as I'd stepped into investor. I was doing that while I was at investec, the chartered chartered route, which is great because I was working, I was getting the exposure to the high net worth clients as a power planner, initially um, and then, once I was charted, I, and whilst gaining that experience, I felt really comfortable, uh, dealing with those high net worth clients pretty quickly. But as I was going through that and being exposed to other financial planners, uh, investate there were two uh planners in particular that uh had cfp, okay, and they seem to be a level above and they seem to think about things a bit differently. Yeah, um, they're writing lots of business. I wanted to write lots of business and I wanted to kind of see why they were more successful and after talking to them, them I was very interested and I'm also super competitive? Yeah, so that was also a motivation.

Speaker 1:

I didn't like the idea of there being people more highly qualified than me. Yeah, would you say it helps. It's helped you serve clients better by having the qualification? Yes, yeah, it's the only qualification I think does. Oh, wow, interesting, interesting. So getting chartered is all technique, technical based exams yeah, you've got to get technically competent to be able to pass the different subject matters. There's nothing really technical about cfa. Okay, um, that it's interesting. You have to be technical to be able to do it yeah, but you don't have to have loads of detail about technical stuff around estate planning or whatever. Um, so yeah, but you don't have to have loads of detail about technical stuff around estate planning or whatever. Um, so yeah, but it makes you think holistically about advice, um, which we can come on to, but I personally believe that helps you be more successful. Yeah, definitely, like thinking outside of the box and taking into account other areas.

Speaker 1:

Interesting what you were saying there before, because I think a lot of people think in the uk that you would need a degree to get the cfp, which actually you said you know didn't do massively well in exams in school. Yeah, didn't go and get a degree. Yeah, and you know, obviously went on and now you know you have a degree level qualification, which is actually a master's level qualification. A master's level qualification there you go, so you don't have to do well in school. However, in the us, you do, you do. You have to have a degree to be able to, or to be eligible to, study for the cfp, which is interesting, isn't it? Because I I categorically wouldn't have been able to go ahead and do it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, um. So, uh, feels like clipping your wings a little bit, doesn't it? It does, and unfairly, maybe, so as well, because not everyone is great in school, and actually I feel that if you find a vocation or profession that you really like and you're super passionate about, you actually tend to excel in that anyway, yeah for sure. So, like you, you would naturally like if if, to be the best financial planner you could be, you had to get a cfp qualification someone who's not done well in school, you're giving them the ability to go and get that master's level qualification. That's why I think this profession is really special. Yeah, um, because you don't necessarily have to have a super academic background or you could. You could, effectively you could be a tradesman and then decide I want to move into a professional services uh role and if you've if you've got the dedication, you can do it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, uh, that's why I think special in well, we've got nick uh in the uk with us. He was uh, he was a tree. So, yeah, he just had enough of being outside and wanted to provide a better living for him and his uh, him and his family, which was which was really interesting. Be interesting to see if we can uh persuade nick to do the cfp as well. I think I think he's got it in him. He's very dedicated. He is very dedicated um, which which is good, um, but what's the fastest route to becoming a cfp? Yeah, I talked to uh people about this now. Um, I always tell people don't take the route that I took, because it wasn't uh, having to do 15 exams and then do cfp is not the fastest route.

Speaker 1:

So cfp used to be run by the institute of financial planning in the uk and they got bought out by cisi, chart chartered ins insurer institute of securities and investments. Yeah, so they got bought out by cisi and since then, the pathway to becoming a cfp has become a lot more streamlined. Yeah, so now you need to have a diploma level qualification? Yeah, so, with CII, as I mentioned before, that's six exams. It's actually three exams with CISI. Yes, so your investment advice diploma yeah, so, once you've got your level four qualification, then you have to do a level six exam, single exam, to get level six qualified with with tisi, uh, and then you can go on to do your case study with right, with cfa, so it doesn't need to look, it's hard enough. Once you get to do your, the level six exam is tough, and then, once you get your case study, you could be spending a year to 18 months doing it. Yeah, so, um, it's hard, it doesn't need to and it shouldn't take super long.

Speaker 1:

If you think about other professions where people have got degrees and then they go on to do their sort of professional qualifications, if you're a lawyer, you will leave your, you'll do your degree and then you'll do your lpc when you leave university. That takes a year, and then you're just waiting for your training contract and that's two years. So, yeah, effectively you could, three years after leaving university, be a fully trained lawyer. Yeah, it should be similar, for for us, you don't have to wait until you're in your 30s to be able to um, to be able to do the role. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? I suppose it's. I suppose what you could argue, you could do the role without it.

Speaker 1:

Definitely also, um, also, making sure that you had uh, having the exams earlier on is is always better because, like you said, it just gives you that time to actually do it and to get them right. Yeah, I remember when I was doing my accountancy exams, the graduates had to do it, had three years to do their accountancy exams. There's a lot of exams there and the uh, the school leavers which I was in had five, so we had exams through over five years. You just lose the will to live with it, uh, in in the end, I think, and actually I think, if you can see light at the end of the tunnel through a bit more of a suppressed learning amount of learning time, it actually means that you, you know, you kick on and you, you do, you do well with it. But you're right as well about the uh, you, you don't have to wait to be cfp or chartered to be able to be an advisor. Yeah, so you can level up as well as gaining that experience which we know, is super valuable as well, which is, isn't it?

Speaker 1:

And it's like who performs best as a CFP? Is it someone who's detail orientated? Is it someone who is, you know, actually better on the job? Experience? From you know, from my understanding of it, I would actually argue that it's not the person who's stuck in the classroom and doesn't actually get what they're saying. You know, they clearly understand the theory side, but it's actually the person who's put it in practice. For sure, you know, when they're used to reading the fact points and everything else like that.

Speaker 1:

But what's your view on it? I think, look, I think that there will be certain characteristics of people that will get through CFP better and quicker. So, someone who is academic, someone who's analytical, is quite analytical, because you have to build out a full financial plan, yeah. And there's a lot of time spent building spreadsheets yeah. So there will be certain characteristics of people that will get through the CFP quicker. But why are we doing it? We're doing it to be better financial planners, yeah, people that will get through the cfp quicker. But why? Why are we doing it? We're doing it to be better financial planners, yeah, um, so I think that I think that um, it, it.

Speaker 1:

It makes you think more holistically and it makes you uh, it can potentially give you some ways of thinking. That makes you a better financial planner, but there's a hell of a lot more to being a financial planner than doing a qualification. Yeah, agreed, and what I mean you kind of say, explain it, because you said that a couple of times. It helps you think more holistically. How do you think it makes you think more holistically than other exams? Um, look, I was guilty of this, uh, before doing it, you, you, when you meet a client, you tend to latch on to a need. Yeah, and that's that's kind of what you're taught with sales is to find a need and and deliver on that need and find a solution for it. Um, but that's, that's one way of doing things and that that will actually, I still do that. Yeah, still works. Uh, it still works plenty. But actually, if you get the opportunity to to have a conversation with a client more holistically, it can really increase how well you do, because you can get an increased share of wallet with a client. You can do a lot more varied work with clients.

Speaker 1:

But the way that it makes you do it is it gives you a full financial plan, oh, sorry, a full case study, yeah, which is effectively a fact find and a meeting note, okay, so it gives you like a client family scenario. Yeah, and for me it was actually I needed to. They had young kids so I needed to think about and they were going through private schools. So education fees planning this was in your case study. In your case study, yeah, so I had to do that. There was a family member who they were going to inherit from, so there was some inheritance tax issues. There's retirement planning that you need to consider, so they give you like four or five different things you need to make sure that you nail in the case study, yeah, and then you build a financial plan around all of those things.

Speaker 1:

But as you're building it out, it's like a house of cards, so if you get something wrong with one of those areas, it can impact all of it, and does that mean that you completely front the exam? It does, oh, wow, literally. What's the pass rate? Do we know? It's very low. It's less than 50% over three sittings. So you get three attempts to pass it, wow, yeah, and if you don't pass the third, you have to start again, which is pretty brutal, yeah, so I didn't pass first time and actually that's good of you to mix. I think that helps some other people that you know look this far as well.

Speaker 1:

I've definitely failed exams in my time, but I didn't pass first time. I think I got you had to get 75%, 65% and I got 41% first sitting and basically what it was is the actual plan itself or the report itself was fine, yeah, but everything in the calculations had been skewed by a few cells in the excel spreadsheet, um, and the excel spreadsheet is not small, so you're finding those issues and basically by correcting that, it went from 41 to 70 odd percent on second. Okay, so I was pre-released very to not have to go against, uh, with that, that was. That was good, then.

Speaker 1:

And for people that are looking to do it, like let's just talk about how many hours per week they've got to apply themselves for it and and over a kind of what period of time, because it's, you know, like it, as I found, it's great saying that you're going to do something and then when you actually start to look at the time commitment, it starts to become a lot like I looked at it. I personally looked at it this year and was like that's too much work for me to take on, with all the other things that I'm doing. Um, I've always got this thing, which is if you really want to do it, you'll do it. You'll find a way to do it and make it fit, which is probably right, but, um, but, yeah, what. You know how much time was you committing on a weekly basis to get this done and over how long? Well, they actually only give you eight weeks to put the report together, to put everything together. So you get your case study and eight weeks later you've got to submit it. Okay, so it's in. If you do, though, if you do take three attempts, you've got three eight week blocks. Okay, I would say you need 150 hours in that eight week block, okay, fine, so if we dumb that down, that's like nearly 20 hours a week, yes, um, probably. Four or five hours at the weekend each day, maybe, yeah, so I actually took a full week off to start, okay, um, to start, yeah, okay, wow. So the start of the eight weeks, because I knew I'd learned from other people that the important part from it is because it's holistic. You have to build a cash flow plan, yeah, but you can't use a cash flow tool. You have to build the whole cash flow plan in Excel. So I spent a week building that out and it was about 35 tabs on Excel, big spreadsheets, and I actually went through a course to do it to kind of create it properly. So you're an Excel whiz as well. You'll get Charlie in here testing you soon. Yeah, I wouldn't like to go up against Charlie, to be honest, but yeah, look, it was fun. So that's the really big beefy part.

Speaker 1:

People see that you've got to do a 60-page, you're limited to 60 pages and they tell you the spacing you're allowed and all that sort of stuff and you in the appendices you have to have, uh, excerpts from the excel spreadsheet in there. So your space is actually really limited. You think 60 pages is is a lot? Yeah, it's not. Yeah, because probably 30 pages of that is your excel spreadsheet drop, wow. So people look at it and see that you have to hand the excel. Do you give them, like the excel file? No, you have to print it off. You have to um, condense it down into um manageable chunks into the appendices, okay, um. So you kind of have to filter out what's not massively relevant. So if you've got like a 30 year retirement plan, there might be five years of it where nothing really changes other than an inflation change and you just squeeze that down. So you might, you, you skip bits out, um, but yeah.

Speaker 1:

But people see, look at the qualification and say I've got to do a 60 page report. That's not the bit that matters, yeah, it's all the prep in the uh planning that that really affects it. So let's talk about that. Then, how long was the prep? So you said you've been on, you went on course to get good at excel, like yeah, it's obviously studying before, like what, there's no. That's what also is interesting with the cfp case study there's no studying. So I suppose you had in a way, because you had the exam, just yeah. So that's that's why it's important not to cut corners. Trying to get to cfp, yeah, by the time you get you to your coursework you want to be really competent. I would suggest that you have a few years experience of looking after clients and actually looking at client case studies, yeah, and applying financial planning, um, but um, yeah, I'd say of that 150 hours, 110 to 120 was just building out the spreadsheet. Interesting, that's a lot, isn't it? It's a big, uh, a big spreadsheet to build out. When you finished it, did you ever want to look at the spreadsheet again when I had to revisit it? And, uh, yeah, I was. I was, I was a bit upset, um, but it is actually a really interesting if you apply yourself right. It's a fun exercise because it actually what do I get from this? And I think it's a lot. As I said earlier, I think it's the qualification that I took most from yeah. So there you go. That's how you pass the cfp exam in eight weeks. You heard it from jj.

Speaker 1:

Another key thing, though, as well, which is that you know, will your firm pay for the exams as well? So you was, uh, you weren't investing at the time, so you obviously had to do that out of your own pocket. Yes, um, however, we were, you know, we were saying I would love to pay for that qualification for someone, because I think it's like, I think, when I think about it in terms of opportunity, and I think about you know, like what what I'm most proud of hoxton, for it's the opportunity that it provides people on an ongoing basis. So we obviously pay for everyone's level four exams, those that want to go on and do other exams, be that country specific, your Series 65, your EU exams, the other bits and pieces we obviously pay for as well. But you know, if someone comes to me and said I want to do this CFP exam because it is such an important part, you know, it's so relatable to what we're doing this is like I want to go and you know, do it. I want to be an actuary. You put me through my actuarial qualifications.

Speaker 1:

Um, you know I would definitely pay for it, but other firms not so much. Today, I mean, you're probably more in tune with the uk market than me, but is it like the dumb thing that they'll pay for it? A lot of firms don't support with exams. A lot of firms will expect you to pay out of your own pocket and they might reimburse you. Some of them won't at all. And also, I think, interesting with CFP in particular, because chartered is seen as being the golden standard. You'll be supported to get to charter, but not necessarily for CFfp. Yeah, people don't understand the relevance of it and the importance of it. Um, so, yeah, I think there's actually few and far between. It's few and far between with firms in the uk specifically that will support you to get cfp. Yeah, which is disappointing. Yeah, it's disappointing, isn't it? You know you, you've obviously, um. You've built out hoxton uh, huge company. You can see the benefit of um, of leveling up the people in your business. So you said the talent it attracts.

Speaker 1:

Smart people don't want to stop learning. Typically, they want to keep being challenged, they want to keep pushing themselves. You know, it always worries to me when someone comes to me so I don't have to do any exams, do I? And I'm like well, this is not the job for you. Yeah, exactly, because, yes, yes, you do um, you know which is, uh, you know which is important. You should be pushing yourself, you should be learning um, and I think obviously, this is the one of the most practical ways that you can do it um.

Speaker 1:

So obviously, we've talked about a lot of the pluses, yes, with having the cfp qualification. I mean, do we think that the cfp qualification means, just by having it, that you're going to be successful right back at you? Yeah, you told me, look, you've been, uh, I would. I would say no, because I don't have it um, but has it in any way taken away from you being able to be successful. No, I wouldn't say it's taken away in any way, shape or form from me being CSP. Being brutally honest, yes, I agree, I would say maybe it might have helped me take on a few extra clients. I might have shined the badge Maybe along the way, but to get to where I am now I did not need the CFP qualification.

Speaker 1:

As more people get it, though, probably it could have an impact, I'm going to sit here and say it doesn't. I mean like in the US. So I look at the US market a lot 103,000 people have got it. We reach out to people there all the time Like, if you don't have a cfp, it's like we're not really there's an expectation. There isn't it because the percentage is so high. So people are speaking to different advisors. They will see that a lot of people have that um accreditation after their name. Yeah, so it's an expectation and maybe that will um come in, but that doesn't. Again, it doesn't mean you're going to be successful. There's far more to being a financial advisor than having a qualification.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so do you need the CFP to be a billion dollar advisor? No, and this is me just completely not like taking any bias out of it. I'm obviously very happy that I've got CFP, yeah, but actually most of the success I've had so far of being a financial advisor was before I got cfp. Yeah, um, I did it because I wanted to. I was competitive, yeah, um, but it didn't make me better, yeah, as in from a sales perspective and and and actually winning business. But to do that part, I do think it um, added the whole one percent thing, uh, and added a few um, added a few extra strings to the bow, yeah, but I don't think it determines success for sure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? What was it you know in terms of earning potential? Obviously, you're in the uk recruiting I can talk about international but you know earning potential with or without the cfp, um, there's two parts to this, I think. So there's the the sort of the space salary element when you're entering a firm and then how much can you ultimately earn? Yeah, um, I think if you're entering a firm and you are benchmarking yourself against someone who's maybe level four qualified, yeah, you will justify a higher salary, um, so I think we spend a lot of time speaking to advisors.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, if you're a junior, uh, level four, level, uh qualified advisor, you probably expect, depending where you live in the uk, somewhere from 3540,000 salary up to £60,000, depending on experience. It does increase quite a bit with chartered and certified. I would say chartered and certified can go anywhere up to £100,000. Yeah, again, depending on experience. You're not going to be a young advisor with very little experience and because you're highly qualified you justify a high salary. That's not how that works. So that's one part of it. I think walking in the door you can justify higher earnings. However, a big part of how much you will ultimately be able to earn as a financial advisor is down to how much you deliver the client bank you can build, how much revenue you can generate, and that is not going to be determined by your qualification.

Speaker 1:

No, agreed, I think it's those soft skills around it that will probably determine it more how well you are with clients, how well you can get on with clients, how well you come across, how well you can sell yourself no-transcript, but if you can't get in front of enough people, it doesn't matter. It's interesting, isn't it? Because I would say that sometimes I'm going to put this out there that the people with the most qualifications are sometimes the worst. Let's find out. I agree, do you see what I mean like. So we have people that come just examined up to the hilt yep, uh, qualified up to the hill, and then actually you have a conversation with them and you think you're never, ever going to be able to sit in front of a client because they're just not going to get you.

Speaker 1:

You, you are operating up here and, with all respect to most clients, it's they need it put down here. Um, you know, they're not experts in it, they haven't got the qualification and actually it's. You know, is there anything in the qualification that teaches you to, you know, kind of take that tack with it and explain it, or does it? No, I don't think there's any real qualification unless you actually do sales yeah, that's it. And then on the job, learning how to deal with clients, yeah, I don't think there's any financial planning uh qualification that actually helps you do that. Yeah, um, there is a that slight element of um. You know how to have a broader conversation with a client and ask the right questions. There is that, and quite you know as well as me that asking the right questions is just as important as um you as spewing off a load of technical knowledge to a client, asking the right questions and getting them to tell you information and extract information is important, but really going through the qualification is not going to teach you how to do that. That is a learned skill outside of it. It just helps you frame it better in your mind. I think, yeah, agreed, it's like that.

Speaker 1:

To me, the highest earning advisors are the ones who are the most self-sufficient, correct, so they know how to market and how to go and get clients. They're very well rounded, uh. So, yes, they're great marketing. Yes, they're great at marketing. Yes, they're great at speaking to clients. Yes, they are intelligent enough to have real conversations and come across very credible. They normally work for, you know someone, a business, that is very credible. Again, it's very difficult to be managing billions of dollars yourself.

Speaker 1:

If you are working for you know, a one man band, you might be the, you might be the, the, what they call it, the outlier within that, and I'd love to hear from you. But, um, you know, typically, the, you know you have to be able to go, go and get those new clients, which it doesn't teach you. It doesn't teach you marketing, um, but it definitely. I, you know, I feel it definitely gives you kind of a, a one-up, that when you are in front of a client, you have that structure and that plan and the ability to be able to devise the plan, to provide it. Yeah, for sure. And I think, as we covered earlier, that credibility point with a client is important. I think it will become more important as it's seen more as a profession, so you might start to see clients be more aware of qualifications and accreditations and the letters after your name, um, but right now I don't think that exists, uh, but yeah, the qualification itself doesn't teach you to do those things. It's actually the things that you can't be taught, yeah, that determine success. You know discipline and showing up and, yeah, and being structured, that's what determines success, not, yeah, definitely, definitely, definitely does it, you does it. You cannot be successful without discipline and without putting yourself there and going forward and turning up each day and giving 110%, it just doesn't happen, does it? So? Positives, negatives what are we? What? What don't we know about the cfp, that that we should? Yeah, I think, um, I think there's, uh, there's a few things um, the we've covered for the, for the uk, what it takes to actually get there, yeah, so how much work you're going to have to uh actually put into to get it and the qualification routes you're going to have to to go down um, I think we've covered a lot of that in terms of the 60 page financial plan versus the excel spreadsheet and that sort of thing.

Speaker 1:

Um, in the us actually, um, it's different. The qualification was slightly different. Yeah, so you have to do um 170 question exam over three hour settings over two three hour sitting. Yeah, so it's two three hour blocks, which is actually interesting because that's really similar to the cfa qualification. Okay, yeah, if you do set the cfa level one, two and three, it's it's um six hour in two block settings. You have lunch in between. Yeah, which is nice of them. Um, so that's uh, that, so they have that. Plus, they have to build out a financial plan, which is which is again interested. They kind of set the standard, I think, and then that that um, that is what carries over to the, to the other um. It's interesting they haven't brought that over into the UK, isn't it? In terms of the qualifications, because I know if you do it here in the UAE, you obviously do the case study but you don't need to do those two blocks of exams Interesting, but I guess do they have a route with having to do 15 exams to get chartered or whatever? What are the other routes? So that that I found um, I found really interesting.

Speaker 1:

I think what they don't tell you is the stuff, a lot of the stuff that we've covered, which is, look, this is not going to determine success. I meet lots of young financial advisors that have got qualified, got cfp, got chartered. Yeah, it does not mean you can come in and justify um high earnings straight away. You need to kind of show your worth. Experience goes a long way. Yeah, so the it can't give you the experience and the on the job experience that you need to actually be successful to be able to deal with clients, and you're only looking at one case study. When you apply yourself to financial planning, you've got to deal with lots of different clients, lots of different scenarios. So being successful and delivering a successful financial plan does not mean that you then know it all, because there's and we should never think we know um, regardless of your level of qualification, I certainly have moments where um and this is really important, knowing when to say I don't know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, uh, just because you've got a qualification, don't have the pride and ego to suggest I think that you know it all. Yeah, um, I think it's really important to what about you? What do you think? Yeah, I, I think it's not the. I don't think it's the. You know the silver bullet? Um, it's not gonna. You know, you can't just get it and then all of a sudden go expect to build a billion dollar practice.

Speaker 1:

I do think you know, I do think exams help you build, help you build a career and help you build a practice. I definitely think it shows credibility. But I also think the other skills that we've mentioned as well. But you know, you know I'm big on business development. I really, I think it's, I think it's really, really important and it's really really key. And I think, especially early on in your career, you should be studying and you should be getting these exams done because, as we said, time restrictions later can mean it becomes more difficult. But you should also be working in a firm that shows you how to go out and get clients, that shows you how to go out and work uh, you know, and be self-sustainable and not just well, here's my clients, you look after them and you know, you kind of get on with it. Yeah, that's it. You know, like, those soft skills that we mentioned are super, super important and they are missed, uh, in my opinion, in a lot of businesses more so now, less so pre-rdr, when people run around knocking on people's doors, um, but I think those skills have just vanished and gone. And actually I, you know, I look at, uh, different businesses.

Speaker 1:

The us has a big drive now on organic business. Organic flows into these businesses because there's so many consolidators that are going around gobbling up other businesses that actually what is the real growth? Like, what is the real growth of that firm? And in a lot of cases it's actually negative growth. Yeah, because they have client churn when they buy the client, when they buy their businesses, and then, um, you know, and then, uh, they're not taking on any new clients, they're losing them, and that's a real problem. That's not good. So I think that whole kind of organic growth from within your business means that you have a real long-lasting practice that can be there for your clients over the longer run. And actually, if you're not growing organically, you're not going to have a business sooner or later. If you're just hemorrhaging clients all the time and you've got a load of debt that you've used to purchase. You know a lot of these businesses, a lot of consolidators. I've been reading with, uh, been reading a lot in the press of all these consolidators that have hundreds of millions of pounds of debt that has to get repaid at some point. Yeah, so you know. But if you can't go out there and take on clients organically with your own cash flow, that's uh, that that's an issue.

Speaker 1:

But I do think having a cfp gives you credibility. So I do think it helps. Like, if someone came to me to give me advice and said that they were, you know, cfp, uh, I would definitely listen to them. Um, but first off, like I said, you've got to kind of get, get your foot in the door, haven't you? Yeah, for sure. And from a recruitment perspective, how do you?

Speaker 1:

Let's talk about a couple of scenarios. If you've got two level pegging advisors, I think we kind of know the answer. But what sort of things? Would you? One? Where would a CFP help in that scenario? Things would you uh? One where would a cfp help? Yeah, that scenario, uh. But also, where would uh another candidate that brings something else? Yeah, not necessarily a qualification, but where would you?

Speaker 1:

How do you, uh, how do you look at it? Well, I would look at this like it would definitely mean I would look at their cb more sure. So when I see him because you don't get to see the person when these things get put across your desk and normally by the time they get to me, they've been through rounds with people and you know it's normally me looking at them. But that would make me look at their CV more Sure and I would probably ask more in-depth questions. I'm impressed Because it's something I haven't got Sure. So you know, I'm like, oh, wow, let's see, that's cool. Yeah, yes, yeah, at some point, uh, but, um, that, but you know again, if I'm looking at two and it's been put to me, I know they're of high quality anyway because they wouldn't have got through the likes of you or the likes of jake or you know whoever is speaking with them, and ollie and jamie and all the other rounds that they, they go through before they, before they, before they get the, you know, the final, uh sign off.

Speaker 1:

So, um, I, if, if I was speaking to a cfp, I would be seeing how self-sufficient they are and I would be asking the same questions which we've just been talking about, which is do you expect this to fall on your lap or are you sufficient? You know, can you go out and get business? Because that's the holy grail. You can go out and you can bring in new clients and you are a CFP yeah for sure. Look, we've got plenty of examples of really successful, really good, competent advisors in the business who are not chartered or certified. Yeah, like you say, you'll spend more time looking at that cv and wanting to know more. Um, but it is not the be all and end all.

Speaker 1:

And uh. Stewart in in uk, for example, yeah, he would not mind me saying that he's 11, four qualified. He does have aspirations to be a chartered or certified advisor super competent, super cynical. Um, but that's all been learned experience. It's not just something he's read in a book. Um, and very, very good at winning clients, winning business, servicing clients, building relationships, building professional networks. That's what makes you successful. Yeah, yeah, definitely, labor on that point agreed 100.

Speaker 1:

Well, I hope, hope. This is um. I hope this has helped anyone that is thinking about going to get the cfp qualification. Um, it's definitely been eye-opening, uh, for me, especially when we've been doing our research around it and you know and seeing what's going on, I think you know the takeaway for me is, if you're thinking of doing the cfp, do it for the credibility and knowledge, but don't expect you know it to become with a ready-made business built off the back of it. Uh, that part's on you. You've got to do that and you've got to push it forward, um, but the cfp is definitely worthwhile looking at, uh, and definitely a qualification that I would say is the highest in terms of becoming a planner. So thanks very much, jj, for joining me. Thank you, it's been really good and we hope to see you soon. I hope you found that useful. Thank you very much and if you did like it, please like and subscribe. It means a lot to know that you're watching and you're enjoying it. Thank you.