Dont Shoot The Messenger
Hi, I'm Chris Ball, and welcome to my podcast, "Don't Shoot the Messenger."
My no-nonsense approach to building wealth and scaling businesses comes from real experience, not theory. I’ve built an international financial planning company with $3.3bn assets under management. I have coached top performers and seen what works (and what doesn’t) up close.
This podcast is for the ones who are done with fluff:
- The high earners who still feel broke
- The entrepreneurs are burning out trying to chase growth
- The ambitious professionals who are starting to question the game they’re playing
- And anyone who’s beginning to realise that more isn’t always better
I’m not here to coddle. I’m here to be honest.
You might not like everything I have to say, but I’m not here to be liked.
I’m here to help you get clear, get focused, and get real results.
All I ask is: Don’t Shoot the Messenger.
This is a Financial Planner Life Production 🎬
Dont Shoot The Messenger
Everyone Wants the Success, No One Wants This Part
In this episode of Don’t Shoot the Messenger, Chris and Jacob have one of their most honest conversations yet, about tough times.
Because behind every success story, there’s usually a stretch of life that felt impossible.
The late nights. The setbacks. The near-misses. The moments you almost gave up.
Chris and Jake open up about their own struggles, from sleeping on floors and living off takeaway rice to facing financial pressure, burnout, and personal loss, and how those experiences shaped who they are today.
If you’re in a tough spot right now, this episode might be exactly what you need to hear.
If you want to see what life in Hoxton Wealth is like, please visit: / @hoxtonlife
For more information on Hoxton Wealth careers, please https://www.careers-page.com/hoxtonwealth.com
For my videos by Chris, please visit his Youtube: @ChrisBallHoxton
Hi and welcome again to Don't Shoot the Messenger. This podcast today is quite a special one to me because it's actually talking about tough times, which not a lot of us talk about, but all of us go through.
SPEAKER_00:I was awful on the telephone. I used to wait for everyone to leave some days so I could practice because I was like I had fear of it and all that sort of stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Those first six tweets that were the ten weeks, I was like, what on earth have I moved into?
SPEAKER_00:And I sound like that old man going, you don't know what it's uh you don't know what it feels like and stuff. I mean I was 25 at the time.
SPEAKER_01:And uh then she called me and said, I've been and I had a scan, she was in floods of tears, and it's two.
SPEAKER_00:And in the two bedroom apartment, it was a round window and there was a pillar, big long pillar. And he lived on an airbed behind the pillar for 12 months.
SPEAKER_01:They very rarely do you get overnight success in anything. Repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition. The more that you do it, the better you will become.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, they're organised, they're ready. Invariably they're gonna do well. Like, pretty much you can almost guarantee that.
SPEAKER_01:Hi, and welcome again to Don't Shoot the Messenger. Uh, hopefully you're enjoying what we're putting out. And this today, this podcast today is quite a special one to me because it's actually talking about tough times, which not a lot of us talk about, but all of us go through. Um and really the tough times that we've had in our in our journeys so far. I I've got Jake with me uh again today. Uh he's been through some tough times as well. It's not always been sunshine and roses for us both sitting on the palm with uh you know with the with the beach as as our garden. Um we don't live together either, by the way, because that made it sound out that we're partners. But um yeah, um, you know, it's um it's important. I think people realise that not everything is lovely and where we are today is not always where we have been or where we've ended up. You know, it's really um that you know you come from uh a very long uh and and sometimes onerous path, and there's lots of struggle that goes along the way. But one thing I hope people do get out of today is not only hearing mine and Jake's stories, not only hearing the parts where it transitioned for us and it got better, but also the fact that tough times don't last, but tough people generally do. And also hopefully it encourages someone not to throw in the towel and not to jack it in when they're probably very close to cracking it, um, which is what Jake and I have uh which is what Jake and I have seen many a time, haven't we? I mean it's funny that you say that.
SPEAKER_00:Typically they throw the the people that have thrown the towel in, it's always been right at that point where they're just about to turn the corner. Yeah. You know, and it's like I said to you before, and I I always say to people, if you if you follow a process and you work really hard and you give it everything, it's not a case of if you make it, it's a case of when. However, that when for some people, like for me, was two and a half years, I think, before that when came. And I remember sitting there 18 months in going, God, don't think I'm gonna succeed at this. Yeah. Luckily, there was people around me, including my wife Georgia, that that basically carried me through and got got me to it. But and I look back now, I think how different my life would have been if I had just gone, do you know what? I'm going back to the UK, I'm gonna work back in my dad's restaurant and you know, go from there. It would be my life would be completely different, you know. It's um, yeah, it's interesting.
SPEAKER_01:It is interesting, isn't it? And I think you know what what I've learned is that a lot of the time, and especially with social media and things like this, is you're permanently focused on what's great in people's lives, and actually what you don't see a lot of the time is the struggle that everyone goes through. I I read a lot, um, and I read a lot of biographies uh of successful people. I think you know, one of the one of the ways that you can um you don't have to reinvent the wheel, you just want to really emulate and copy what successful people do, be that habits, be that you know how they carry themselves, all you know, all the all the other bits and pieces. I remember it came to me when I read Warren Buffett's, it's called the snowball. It's called Snowball, it's not a snowflake, it's Warren Buffett's snowball. But it what Warren Buffett, you look at him and you go, oh my god, like this guy, you know, he's the oracle of Omar, and you know, like how you know how amazing he is and all the stuff that he's accomplished. But when you read his book, you realise all the crap and adversity that he has had along the way and that he has dealt with that you forget about pretty quickly. Same with Bezos when I re when I read his book, same with Musk, the amount of times nearly went bankrupt and all the struggles and bits and pieces that he went through. I mean, they're you know, they're people top of their game, but also it's people in your own industry as well, isn't it? Like you look at people, you know, like you yourself uh and myself, you know, I believe that we've had good success so far in our in our career journeys, nowhere near Warren Buffett or Musk or anyone else like that. I I wish um for us uh for us to be like that at some point, but it's easy for them because they you know they are where they are, but they don't realise that we've also been through uh you know been through uh a lot of the a lot of the a lot of the tough times as well. I mean, you know, look, I'll start so I'll kick us off kind of with you know one of my tough times. I mean, I remember when I moved out to work at DeVere. Um I remember I left uh I remember I left home I moved out to Abu Dhabi. I'd never ever ever been to Abu Dhabi before. It's the first time I'd gone. Um we rocked up at the uh we rocked up uh in Abu Dhabi, James and myself. And uh for the first two or three weeks, you know, we had a we had a hotel in the holiday inn, we shared a room, two single beds in the room. Um we would get up, shower, go to work, obviously, we'd eat whatever it was every day, and you know, and then go to sleep and then do it all again. You know, it was it was pretty intense. We then got a one-bed apartment, uh, and we had airbeds, Lewis, James, and myself, and the airbeds, my airbed didn't blow up, it kept deflating. So I wake up every morning basically on the floor, and then uh, and then thankfully I I managed to get into an apartment with Lewis and we uh and we kind of took it took it from there. But I mean those first six weeks that you know, seven weeks, I was like, what on earth have I moved into and like what on earth have I done? And you know, like there we'll we'll talk more about other stuff with with the kids and all the rest of the stuff, but you know, that that was tough.
SPEAKER_00:You talk about that. I mean, we we went on holiday to Thailand, stopped off. I was working in the restaurant, and I'd finished the restaurant then my dad had a restaurant, and Georgia was a qualified teacher, and we stopped off on the way back uh in Abu Dabbey in Abadabi from on holiday, and and Georgia went round to see some schools. We had some friends that lived here, and one of those friends worked at De Vere where I met you, and I got offered this job, and I was like, Oh great, every job, but Georgia didn't. So we got home and I was like, There's there was no salary, so I was like, Well, I need a bit of savings, but it was no salary. Um, and then Georgia got a call and they said, We've got a job for you, but you can only come over on 8,000 dirhams with no accommodation. So that's what we came over. So I came over to a no-salary role, and George came over 8,000 dirhams, and we lived in a maid's room in this friend's house with no windows in a single bed, pretty much. Well, one and a half size bed. That was pretty tough. Living with someone I'd never lived with in a single bed with no windows, quite disorientating. Then we went into a service department which was right at the top of my budget. I was working stupid hours trying to get good at this profession I'd never done before, I'd never really used a phone or for outbound or anything like that. And I remember having to send Georgia home in the summer, and I went to go and stay in a place which a lot of people in uh Abu Dhabi will know called Ream Dream. It's called Ream Village, and it was um the only way to explain it was shipping containers stuck on top of each other, turned into little one-bed units. And uh, because it was two and a half thousand dirhams a month for a for a one-bed unit, she went home for the eight weeks. I stayed through. I was wasn't in there, I was in the office all day, you know, learning, trying to get better. But it was horrible. I mean, it was horrible. We got back there at night, it was the middle of summer, it's boiling hot. The AC wasn't very good, but it was all I could afford. Yeah, I'd walk across the Lulu's in the mall across from Mushrift and have these pieces of chicken and rice every day. And it is like, and I'm and then all the time I'd speak to my friends at home going, Oh, how are you getting on? Oh, I'm absolutely killing it. I'm living in the Middle East, like I was on a boat last weekend, and I'm like eating chicken and rice living in the in this pork cabin. So, yeah, I mean, but I'll always remember that. You know, I'll I will always remember that, and I don't I don't wish that on anybody, you know, but it did. I was lucky that I was tough enough to push through it, you know.
SPEAKER_01:It's the per it's the perseverance, isn't it? And I think that's the that's the key. And also, you know, it doesn't get obviously not sleeping in a shipping container or you know, in a one-bed place, obviously now, but you still you know everyone still has as troubles as as they as they progress through their career. I remember um I remember I went back in November. Well I don't remember, I went back in November uh for Duncan's wedding uh uh when he got married. Um and I'd obviously my wife was there, um and uh you know obviously uh one thing led to another uh and she got managed to get pregnant when I was back. I'd moved over to the Middle East on August the 31st. This was in November, so I was a BDM, same role as you, yeah, no salary, uh commission, fee split only, whatever you want to call it, dialing around trying to get people booked in for the advisor James that I was working with. And then uh, you know, it was we we came to this kind of conclusion that actually, do you know what? It's fine, it's good, we want to keep the babies, you know, we want to make sure we want to, you know, like what we want, or baby at the time, I thought. And then uh and then I remember I went I came back in January thinking I've got to do really well it because you know like she's pregnant, like I need to I need to make this work, not really knowing too much. I mean I was 25 at the time, and uh then she called me and said I've been and I had a scan, she was in floods of tears, and it's two, so there was like twins as a business development manager on no salary, having just started a job. Obviously, I've been an accountant before, so I kind of knew that I could you know, worst case I could really go back to it. But I mean that was super super scary, and I remember that whole way through, we didn't have a lot of money, we didn't have huge amounts. Sarah could not work because we had two babies to look after. You didn't have family support, so she needed to be at home. We ended up managing to get our own apartment, same as you, it pushed me right to the limit in terms of what I could afford and what I couldn't, but thankfully, you know, and all always owe it to James, he massively helped me out and looked after me during that period of time as well. But I remember going to Waitros to buy uh the kids' nappies and milk and thinking, Fuck my my cards, I I don't know if this is gonna be accepted. What am I gonna do? Like, I'm gonna go home and there's gonna be no, you know, what am I gonna tell Sarah? Like, I'm sorry I couldn't buy the nappies or I couldn't buy the milk, or I couldn't buy both of them because I didn't have enough. Like I was like super over. Thankfully, Lloyd's let me have an overdraft and I managed uh I managed to I managed to buy it. But that was a regular occurrence, like not being able to go out of the weekend or do anything because I didn't just didn't have any money. Just had to literally come back, get on my work, like try and plan for the next week, you know, sit with my wife, we'd you know, have a dinner you know at home, maybe go downstairs to where we had a like a communal pool, and that sounds like a first world problem. But it amazes me though, because the amount of times now when we have people come out and they moan about how hard it is and all the rest of this stuff, thinking that you have no idea what this is like, but they don't they don't really they don't really appreciate it that we were in the exact same situation as them.
SPEAKER_00:Well, nothing focuses you more than that, and the people that come through that they're the ones that you'll always see become successful, typically. But I mean, yeah, I mean I I as you know I work with a lot of the junior guys in the business, and I've worked really hard with you and the rest of the guys to create a programme that they shouldn't have to feel that, yeah, you know, they come in on a salary, yeah, and it's it's a fairly decent salary from a starting position. Like it's not a decent salary when you're going down the five every weekend and spending it on brunches and going out, and that I do get them, and they go, I said, What did you do last weekend? Well, on Friday I went to the five, on Saturday I went to Saffron, or Sunday I did zero gravity. Yeah, exactly. Not quite feeling how hard that is just there. And they were all delivereroo for lunch every day. Every day. And we didn't even have deliveroo in back back then in the day. We used to go across the Lulus and stuff and pack. I sound like that old man going, You don't know what it's uh you don't know what it feels like and stuff, but it's um yeah, it it's amazing how it how it focuses you and goes from there. But um yeah, those tough times they just they just they do disappear if you work hard and go through it. But I mean I could tell you tens and dozens of stories. I mean, I I actually became quite good at business development and I was heading in the right direction, it was all going really, really good. And then I was about to step up to an advisor, and I remember I don't think it was in intentional, but I I I was like encouraged to go and get a big house, I was gonna be really successful, so I went and took this house and ended up moving companies, which put me backwards. So I took this big house, committed to this rent. I just had Spencer, so I had a newborn baby, and um, and I wasn't very good at advice. Like I just didn't hit the ground running like I thought I was going to, didn't get the leg up I thought I was gonna get all of those things. I ended up having to one rent out the spare room, so I've got a newborn baby. I'm I'm giving advice now, I'm doing okay, I'm just getting finding my fee. I rent out the spare room to a friend of mine, so I had another bloke living with us with us and the newborn baby, and I couldn't pay my AC bill one month, and they were coming and turning my AC off one day, and I'd go back in the cupboard and turn it back on. I mean, this is when I was just getting I mean, like I'd gone like that, went back again, and again in another tough time, but I wasn't prepared to have a baby and all of the stuff. I had to get a nanny because obviously Georgia was working and all that, but again, you know, we get your head down, you work through it and go from there, you know.
SPEAKER_01:100%. You have to like, and I think that's the key as well. It's like, and that's really what separates people, it's that you know, we talk about post-traumatic stress, yeah. Like actually, like those things, but actually it's it can also be uh post-traumatic, uh post-traumatic growth. Yeah, you know, like the former can actually lead to growth, yeah. Uh, and actually those lessons shape you a lot and install almost the sense of fear into you as well, that you you want to work really hard because you don't want to go back there. And remembering those feelings.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, 100%. I mean it that focus again, isn't it? That focus makes you better at everything that you do and it really, really changes it and it you know pushes you forward. And but you once you've been there, you won't go back to Tim. Don't you won't want to go back. Well, you won't want to go back. You may go back, and you know, things can go wrong, but you're probably better equipped to deal with it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, and I think that's it. It's it's kind of like well, we were saying before, the amount of people that we see, you know, there was a girl that worked for us that you know had a lot of promise. Um but her she was uh really good at her job, she was very intelligent, she was um she was uh you know, had all the characteristics of being able to become a really successful planner, but she had zero patience and also could not stomach a bit of hardship initially. Like I I I look at it sometimes and I go, Well, if they can do it, why can't I? And the number one factor of why they've done it is because they've been doing it for a long, long time. You can't expect to be great at something straight away. You it will take time to get there, and you have to go through the shit to get to the gold.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's that repetition thing, isn't it? It's that you know, and this is a really tough thing for me when I sit down with a junior, especially the business development guys, and I can see them looking at me when I'm telling them that if you do this, it will work, and they're going, nah, you're wrong. And I can see it, I can see it in their eyes, and sometimes they do come up with ideas that are better than what I do. I totally agree, and I want that to happen, but we know what works, and the reason we got to that, I mean, I was I was really I was shit on the phone. Like, there's no other way of putting it. I was awful on the telephone. I used to wait for everyone to leave some days so I could practice because I was like I had fear of it and all that sort of stuff. And some of these young lads are coming now. I'm like, you know, if you keep doing this, it will only happen. And then after six months, it's like a light bulb moment, and then suddenly all of the meetings they booked to start to convert into clients, they go, You were right. It's like, yeah, we wouldn't we wouldn't waste our time telling you in training to do something if it didn't work. But I remember when the person above me was saying it to me, and I was looking at him going, Yeah, you're mad, you're mad, what you're on about. But I also knew, and that was the one thing that got me through it. I looked at some of the people that were doing well in our profession, and they were no different to you or I, you know, and I just thought, well, why can't I do that? It's going to be a matter of time, and that's that's the thing when it comes to is time. Whenever people try and rush it, they try and go too quick, or try and think that the time runs out for them. I tend to find it's kind of trust that process, and it 100% is mate, and it's like it's the time bit, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01:It's good things take time. They very rarely do you get overnight success in anything. Repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition. The more that you do it, the better you will become. Obviously, as long as you're learning and adapting and developing it along the way, if you're just doing the same thing and expecting different results, then you know that's the that's the definition of madness. But it's um you know, it's so in it's so important to give yourself that time. You know, like now we, you know, we were at the time it was expected that after a year or 18 months that we would have to step up and become an advisor. Now I look at some of these trainee wealth managers and I go, it's gonna be three to five years before you become an advisor, before we let you loose. Because number one, you're not ready, and you're only gonna damage yourself. And the amount of times we've also seen people rush and it kill them as well because they they don't get it. Yeah, and I think that's the other thing as well, is that we see it across everyone. So when when you're looking at something, you look at it just through your lens, just through your view, and you don't necessarily have the oversight of what everyone else sees. When you and I look at it, I mean I I I've been managing people now for what for twelve years probably. Um I've had a lot of advisors, I've had a lot of trainee wealth managers come and go during that time, and I can tell you the traits. We talk about this a lot, like what are the traits that make us successful? What are the traits that we need to look for in the people that we're recruiting? And I think we've got that down to like a pretty good art form or T now. Um but we see that because we've seen it across so many different people and we know what to expect. You cannot expect to know that within the first few uh few weeks of you you doing something.
SPEAKER_00:No, and you obviously those traits we talk about in a lot of things like discipline. You know, if somebody comes in and they're in great shape, they eat the same three meals a day, they're organised, they're reading, invariably they're gonna do well. Like pretty much you can almost guarantee they're gonna do well. And most of our top performers are, you know, they are and they do go to the gym, they do have routine. Um structure, yeah. Yeah, structure. That's what comes from it. But you know, the other thing we've learned about doing that is we've been through some tough times recruiting. You know, we tried to be all things to all people and bring in all sorts of different types of people, and we realise well, actually, that doesn't work for us. This is our work, this is our working formula, that's what we're gonna do, and that's why it works. But yeah, and also one thing we've become good at is realising when people are ready to go. And and I stepped up way too early. Well, I didn't step up way too early. I was actually a business development manager for four years, but I never got any I didn't do any training to step up. Yeah, so I was still the same person I was in year one or year two, maybe. So year two, three, and four, I wasn't getting fact-find training or or you know questioning techniques and things like that. By the time these trainee guys that we've got with us now step up, they're pretty much a ready-made advisor. They've done client meetings, they've done fact finds, they've done reports, they they know the full role inside out, and that's the difference, and that's what I don't we don't make it easy for them. We we put them under pressure and make them work hard, but at least they're not work wondering at the end of the month how they're gonna pay for that their dinner, yeah, or how they're gonna be able to pay for their rent next month. That that's the idea of what we're trying to create.
SPEAKER_01:But it's interesting as well. If you like look at all the the really successful uh advisors in our business, they have all been through some element of hardship as well. Yeah, yeah, Nabil uh and I mean Kareem slept on Nabil's sofa. We were talking about that. I know Lloyd slept in a maid's room.
SPEAKER_00:Lloyd lived in uh Lloyd Lloyd's when he lived, he was on a c in a corridor. Yeah. So in a corridor outside some more things. I mean, I had a friend of mine who isn't in this profession anymore, he's actually done really well thing. He lived fr two of the lads had a two-bedroom apartment. Yeah, and in the two-bedroom apartment it was a round window and there was a pillar, big long pillar. And he lived on an airbed behind the pillar for 12 months. Crazy. You know, like you you when you say that now, people go, no way. It actually did happen. That's what we that's what people used to have to do.
SPEAKER_01:People and then and I think people do still do it. I think like that, but I like I said, I don't I don't feel that hardship, you know, like you shouldn't what not want it. I mean that's something I'm like kind of a bit worried about with my kids is that how easy they have it. And actually, I feel that it make maketh the man um or maketh the woman, you know, to to have a bit of hardship, it you know, it it it builds like puts hairs on your chest, as my dad would say, you know, like make it gives you a bit, it gives you a bit of colour, it gives you a bit of life experience, like realising that even now, you know, like when I've been I uh uh you know we've been Hoxton has been in existence since 2018, so we're seven and a bit years in. Every year something fucks up, yeah, without a doubt. Yeah, now it's not like that from all the stories and all the Instagram and the LinkedIn and the PR articles, you just think it's like rocket ship. You you've been there, you you've seen it within the business, but even now it fucks up. And I believe that because of the hardship that we had earlier on, and actually going, Oh, this isn't you know, like I've seen it before. It you know, it doesn't become easier because that's the wrong word, and also whenever you think everything's going well, there's always a s remember, there's always a speed bump coming up, or someone's always gonna jump up and punch you in the face. Yeah, like you've got but you've got to be expecting, you've got to be expecting that and and trying to protect against it. But at the same time, also I think you become a bit more I think you definitely become better at dealing with it. Like earlier on I used to have problems. I like I used to I used to really worry that I wasn't gonna be able to continue the business, I was gonna fucking have to go back, like the shame of it, and all the rest of this stuff. And now I realise that you know a lot of the time Yeah, shit is gonna happen, it's not gonna be great, you've got to deal with it. You want to surround yourself with people that are on the on the same wavelength and don't get negged out and the fucking world's ending and you know like the the circle around you to deal with those problems has to be strong. But you also need to, you know, you also need to make sure that you that you move forward with it as well. During the biggest, during the biggest problems, uh, during the biggest areas that we've had problems, I've realised that taking massive action with those problems quickly has always made me better than sit there, feel procrastinated about it. Like if I have a problem on a Friday, I will get up on a Saturday and do something about it. Like I'm not waiting till Monday because I know like it otherwise I think about it all weekend, it drives me mad. Like, and sometimes you I have to think about things with a clear head as well. So, like now if I have a really big problem, I'll go for a long run. So I will go for a two-hour run. Uh, and I mean it might seem excessive, whatever, but I will do something to completely clear my head. I'll think about the problem as I'm running around, but normally by the end, I've got an answer and I've got an action, and then I start moving towards it.
SPEAKER_00:Um obviously, like I've known you a long time and and I've seen you change and and evolve with dealing with problems, but now you're very methodical. I mean, I remember years ago, you know, problems would be you it was always oh you know a thing. I mean, you've you've is that because you just come across so many problems over the years and you've now got better at dealing with them, or you know, has that shaped you or or is that because you've now learned how to deal with them?
SPEAKER_01:I think it's definitely age um has calmed me down quite a lot. I was I as you know, I've I've you know I've not been the most uh passive person in the world. Um, and that used to be my way of dealing with it, which was blow up, yeah, let it all out, then I'd be calm, and then I'd be dealing with it, and I'd be moving forward. So I'd always move forward, but I needed to get that out. Yeah. Now I realise that all that does is fucking make it horrendous for everyone around me when we're trying to deal with problems. I'm very keen to get to the bottom of the problem and get it sorted sooner rather than later, and I will put pressure on um hopefully in a much nicer way now than than I used to going forward. But I I feel that blowing up does not get me closer to it might make me feel better in the moment, but blowing up does not get me closer. Actually, do you know when I find when I blow up the most now? Is over small shitty little problems.
SPEAKER_00:So if it's a small problem, yeah, I just lose it because but then with the bigger problems, you know, alright, we've got this, we'll do it, you know. Yeah, and what obviously, yeah, we talked about the thing. I mean, I know what my turning point was, but when did it turn for you? You know, we all we all went and it felt like it was years, it was hard, but do you know? Do you remember when it turned? Qatar.
SPEAKER_01:So when I moved to Qatar in 2014, the first year and a half there was sh was was was was really tough as well because I was now in charge of this office. I wasn't earning great. I had two households to run because my wife wanted to stay in Abbadaby, so I was still living kind of hand to mouth a little bit. I'd started to save up some money and we managed to buy a little property in England, and you know, it started coming together a bit, but then I really started to take seriously what was happening outside of work, how much it impacted me in work, and then I found things really started to click, but it was written, you know, like looking back on it, really bullshit. It was just the amount of time I'd been doing it, and I just learned and learned and learned and learned and learned and and I probably could have sped that up as well by trying more earlier on and harder earlier on and doing more of it earlier on. Um but I I found when I was in Qatar, I started taking on a lot of assets, I was able to deal with clients, so you know, like the whole way that I would go about carrying myself went forward, um, and only tried to improve it from there. You know, that was the key. I think one of the big things was not drinking as well, which I've talked about before, but I gave up alcohol for 18 months and that massively, you know, now I don't really drink at all. Um a couple of beers here or there, but what was your turning point?
SPEAKER_00:Um so I just don't survive, I had had Spencer, um so a little boy's nine now, and I'd set up a golf society. So I'd done this as a BDM, so I set this golf society up because I realised I wasn't very good on the phone, right? And I remember John that I worked for then said, Well, go and do some networking. Like, what do you want to do? And I said, Well, I like golf, I wasn't great at golf, so I just went and he goes, Well, don't join someone else's, go and set your own up. So I set this Facebook group up, Abu Dhabi Golf Society, and I remember two people came to my first event, and it was a guy called Rob, who is a client now, he lives in Spain, and a young man called Alex, who was 13. And his mum had basically dropped him off. I'm sitting there going, like, well, he's not gonna be a client, like that's not gonna happen. And anyway, as a business development manager, ended up signing up Alex's dad, and then Rob became my client when I stepped up to an advisor. So I did an event every Monday for nine, eight, nine years, and that's where Louis came from down the line. And I remember I stepped up to an advisor, continued doing events. I was quite scared to tell people I was an advisor, and I started just telling people, and then people just started coming to me saying, Oh, can you help me with this? Can you help me with that? And a guy came to me and he was like, Oh, I've got I remember it, he goes, I've got a pension, it was the middle of summer. I'd stayed through the summer, he goes, I've got a pension, someone rang me about it today. Can you help me with it? I was like, and he gave me um, we have to get a letter of authority, don't we, to find out about the pension. He gave me this scrunched up piece of paper that was like a dish cloth. I got back and I folded it out and I sent it off. I didn't even know how long he'd worked there or whatever else, and it came back. It was a sizable pension, it made sense the transfer, and it was quite a good, decent-sized deal. It was my first over a million pound asset that I took on. And I remember when I was going through the advice process, it was a huge, multiple, it was an absolute no-brainer for him to do it. And uh, we signed it all up, a thing, and I was just like, all right, I get it now, and then it just started. Everyone I spoke to, not everyone I spoke to, but you spoke to people, and the conf, it was the confidence that came because I'd done that deal. It was like I felt like I felt like I'd made myself and I could do it, and and then from then forwards it kind of not looked back. I've obviously had some hard times, I've moved companies, which is never a fun thing to do. Um I've been through some personal hard times, which which which we talked about before as well. And but since that day, pretty much, it's kind of always on the up at the most. There's always things going on in the background, but it's always kind of moved forward. But I only got there because of hard work. And as I said, I was I was shit. Like I really struggled. Like and and and you know, I I look back now at the meetings I booked. I'm I booked 150 meetings in my first six months. There wasn't a British name in there, and they were in cafes on Hamdan Street, and it just it wasn't very good. But I always look back at what I was doing before, and I worked for a in a restaurant, I was doing 60 hours or 70 hours a week, some weeks, six days a week, and my my finishing salary was like 17 grand a year or something. I was like, I'm not going back to that. Like, and I could see it then, and I just and that tried. Yeah, I mean, my dad was a extremely hard worker, and it was always very difficult not to work hard because he would get in before you and leave after you, which is I know something that you do, and I try and do as well. And that I learned that resilience from that, you know, and that was what pushed me forward.
SPEAKER_01:But yeah, that was the turning point. How do you deal with problems now? Like, if you've got a big issue, obviously it's a bit easier because you've got a few could in your bank, and you know, like it's not it's not end of the world. You know, like you're not like money, money, but money is a you know, money is a real problem that people have, you know. That that is a big form of stress. But how do you deal with like big problems that they happen now?
SPEAKER_00:Um I'm I'm not an angry person, as everyone will always know. I'm quite a passive thing. I do get a bit hit up, and you'll you're when I'm struggling is when I go quiet, because I'm you know I'm quite a vocal person. When I go quiet, I think I speak about them. You know, I'm very, very lucky. I mean, I've been I've had some big personal things happen over the years, and I had a bit of help with that, and it taught me to learn about myself, and I now yeah, therapy. And I I I needed it. I mean, I thought I was fine. My as I've said before, my dad and my stepmum unfortunately passed away within within 12 months, which she went through with me. And after that, I wanted to help everyone. My little brother and sister were still minors, I was taking on the world, I was still working because I had to still work. And I remember I had a bit of a panic attack, and my wife helped me to find someone to speak to them. And I always looked at it like I'll speak in some last week, like, what I'm not gonna do that. It was the best thing I'd ever done because I needed it. I didn't I needed it to deal with the problems I had, but I also needed to understand myself, and now I understand why I do things, I understand when I'm acting a certain way because I've learned my traits, and but equally, like I've had issues, I've had problems before, and I've I've messaged you and said, mate, good interest sit down and have a chat about it. Yeah, that's the important thing. I mean, we we're very passionate about speaking about stuff. You don't know what someone's going through. No, and unfortunately, people don't speak about things enough, especially men. And I I'm not saying you have to go around to your mate's house and cry in his lap, yeah, but just getting it off your chest, sometimes reasoning with it, you know, you can't reason with yourself. I mean, people use it AI now, but I think sitting with sitting with a friend and telling them, listen, this has happened, I'm not very happy about it. I think, or equally, like in work, and we're quite good at this in the business. Like if Charlie does something that pisses me off, or you do something that pisses me Charlie, we're quite good at saying, I don't agree with that, rather than just going, Oh, well, you know, he's done this. You've got to talk about things, otherwise, you can't move forward as a team. So it's the openness, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, of course it is. I think that I think the talking about the problems is is it is a really key one that you said there, like actually being able to sit down and get it off your chest. You always feel better, and it you should. I mean, there is oversharing as well, you know, like when you go around and tell 20 people your problems, like actually, you know, I I I personally believe that you should probably discuss your problems with people that can help you solve them. Yep, you shouldn't like go around telling everyone all your issues all the time. I I I'm not I'm not a big believer of that, but no, like actually having that support network where you are. So, like if you're going through a tough time at work, having that manager or mentor that you can go to and you go, Look, I'm having a shit time, you know, it's not working for me, it's not clicking, this is happening, so because nine times out of ten, they'll have a complete different perspective, but also a lot of the times you've you were talking to someone who's been through something similar as well, and you know, and and it and it and it can massively help. I mean, you know, look, when you lost your when you lost your parents, you know, I was amazed at how well you held it together. Um but you know, like you said there, you'd panic attack and you don't you just don't like you you would never know that on the outside, and unless and thankfully obviously you had a great support network with Georgia around you as well and you got an amazing partner, but to go and see the you know, to go and get the help with dealing with it is is another is another key part of the struggle. Like trying to keep it all on yourself is yeah, is super tough, and just speaking about it and getting it out is really important.
SPEAKER_00:100%, you know. I say this to I would hope that I'm pretty approachable, you know. I try with all of the people in all of the teams to say, and I will speak to anyone, like whether it's someone in an admin team, compliance team, marketing team, and I'd hope that everybody feels they can approach me if they've got a problem. And I say to people, I've had people come to me personal problems and say, listen, let's let's go for a coffee tonight, or let's meet tomorrow morning out of the office and let's talk about that as a personal problem. I I'll be there and I'll guide you. I'm not a counsellor, but I'll I'll have a chat with you and get it off. A work problem, come to me, and we'll sit down, let's put some time in the diary. I do find that people have a work problem at two o'clock and want to pull by 2.15. I've become very good at sussing out. Well, hang on, if I push that one till tomorrow, it'll probably go away because actually they're just flapping because something's just happened. But like I've had advisors come to me. I mean, we we've got a really great advisor who works for us that focused on this AUM model last year, and by June, his the other guys that joined at the same time of him were well ahead of him on fees generated, and he was behind, but his AUM was growing quick. And I remember him sitting there, listen, this doesn't work. You know, this is the wrong model. I said, No, stick with it. Listen, I can tell by the by stats and numbers, you're gonna do really, really well. And he ended up finishing the year, I think he onboarded 20 million of assets and started this year with a passive income of you know a couple of hundred thousand, which was incredible. This year, the same guy, and this is a guy that holds himself incredibly accountable, right? He comes to me and he says, I'm not busy, I'm not busy, and he was flapping about how little meetings he was doing, but he'd onboarded more assets by the this time last year than he'd done by six months the year before. And again, that was just sitting with him and showing him that and going, because he saw that as a massive issue. I was like, You're taking on bigger clients, you're servicing the clients you brought on last year, you've got less time for new clients. He's talking about it, and then he texted me on the way home, he goes, Thank man, I really needed that because actually I was panicking and my whole business was going to off a fold. But at that time, when you're feeling like that, that's all you knew, all you know. As soon as he talked about it, got it off his chest, but that's not a problem at all.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it feels it almost feels silly that at that point, doesn't it? But you don't get to that point because you bottle it up, you go around it in your own head, you the problem gets out of control, makes it worse and worse and worse. And actually, the clever thing that he did there was not going bitch and moan about it to the people around him. He actually came to someone that could help him understand it and help him do it. But that's what I mean. It's like not going downstairs and having the fag and bitching to everyone and moaning about you know what um you know what what does that do? It doesn't do anything, it doesn't actually help, it doesn't make you better, it's not gonna sort out the problem. Actually, going to someone, like if you're ill, you go to a doctor because they can help you. I don't go and I don't go and speak to my wife. Do you know do you know what I mean? Like if I if there's something physically wrong with me, I'm going to a doctor, I'm not gonna take my wife's advice as much as I love her, as much as she'd love to give me the advice as well. Um, but you need to seek out that professional guidance, and I think a lot of people mistake that in their career as well, like they'll chat to their mate who has fuck all to do with their business or their work.
SPEAKER_00:They'll go downstairs with the other trading wealth manager that's also struggling and took convince each other that the the industry that the whole profession is failing and that they're not gonna ever succeed. However, if they went and spoke to someone that was slightly ahead of them that's that's actually broken the back of that one, and they went, I see mate, we've all been through that, it's absolutely fine, you're actually doing really good, your numbers are great. Then they sit back down at the desk and go, ah, I'm alright.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But what happens is that negativity breeds, and we've talked about this before. I mean, negativity is you can go out, go out of the office for a week, come back, and it's like, what the hell's happened here? Yeah. And one person that's maybe having a tough time and not speaking about it can bring the whole floor down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean it's crazy.
SPEAKER_01:It's like apples, isn't it? Rocks. Yeah, it spreads, um, and you need to be super careful about it. But that is again really focusing and being careful a bit of the people you hang around with as well. Like, especially if you are early on in your career or you know you're going through a tough time, being with a load of other negative people is not going to put you in a good place. You need to cut those people out, and that's really tough sometimes because actually sometimes it can be like your family members that bring you down and stuff like that as well. I'm not saying you should disown your family, but you know, I I remember I remember I had uh when I first moved to Abu Dhabi, uh a guy that I used to go to school with, like uh secondary school, he lived in Dubai, and he was like, Oh, great, see you over, I'll come down and see you. And I was thinking, awesome, like great, I've got a friend, like it's outside of work, like I'll spend you know the afternoon, maybe maybe we'll spend weekends and do different bits and together, and you know, great, like he's in the same shit as me. And he came down, and what and the whole afternoon he talked about how shit life was, about how shit things were, and about how bad this was, and I I was on the verge of leaving after he left, like I was like, oh my god, like and what I realised was is that it's not shit, it's not bad. He's just yeah, I this sounds really bad. I've never spoken to him again, yeah. And I was that brutal with it, I just cut it out and got rid of it. And I've heard so many times other people say that, but it was only that experience of like not being around that negativity or not being around that person that actually made me, you know, actually really made me want to drive on, and I've consistently done that as I've gone through and built Hoxton and other things, is surrounding myself with people that are in a place that I want to be. Um, I mean, I go on a road trip every year, I go with Lee, I go with Duncan, I guess Steven, other other people that have done amazingly well in their lives, and you know that we yeah, it is great because we drive around, but we also non-stop talk about work, talk about business, talk about life, talk about everything else. And you know, normally I come out of those things and feel really good. Last year I went to an Alex Hall Mosey thing. I came out with loads of ideas because I surrounded myself with people that were thinking completely different to me, but also positive and wanting to move things forward, and you know, I'd done really well. And I feel like you have to make it's you have to be so careful about the people that you hang around and the and the things that you input into you.
SPEAKER_00:It rubs off on you, doesn't it? Like, you know, it's it's and you when you move over here as well. One thing that I've seen and I did, and you end up hanging around with people you'd never hang around with at home. You know, they could be completely different, but it's like, oh, that's the crop crowd and what yeah, and then what I noticed as you develop is and this is what I think we've done really well as a business, is we've we've brought like-minded people together. You know, I wouldn't say that I'm I'm not best friends, there's one lot of people in my work college, but I have got some great friends in the office, but that's because we're all simple. Hopefully I'm one, yeah, yeah. Well, I won't be sat here 12 years later if it was the case, but um, but it's yeah, I mean, like, you know, you're lucky that you're working around like-minded people, and and that that's a really, really big thing. And hopefully there'll be enough people as as everyone we bring into the business progresses that they can see someone above them will always have, and one thing that we've all your uh your our core values and your main one being no knob heads, yeah. You know, we have a rule in the office where everyone has to show everyone respect. And I worked in an office where you'd go to someone when we were business development managers and say, Oh, you know, where did that deal come from? And they wouldn't tell you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:They go, I'm not telling you that. Or how are you getting your date? I'm not telling you that. How'd you this? I'm not telling you that. Like in our office, we all tell each other if someone wants to know how you've done something, you pretty much tell them, like, you'll train them on it because that's gonna make you better anyway. 100%.
SPEAKER_01:A rising tide raises all the ships, and it's so true. Like, you surround yourself with greatness, you are surrounding yourself with people that are you know really focused on doing well, then you are gonna naturally do better out of it. It's like, you know, some people say to me, Oh, you know, what about this business, what they're doing, and what about that business and what they're doing? And I love it, like, actually spurs me on to do better. I don't want to be the only person, like I don't want to be the only, I don't want us to be the only business that's doing what we're doing. Because it it would be a shit industry, it would be a shit profession to be the only one. You want to be the best and you want to strive to be the best, but I love it when other people do well. At a time I went fucking woo, but secretly that's like, right, they're raising the bar. Like, I need to I need to raise the game uh to you know, raise my game and um and not sit on my laurels and and constantly keep pushing forward. I know you're the same, and I know other senior people are too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, agreed. It's it is all about raising the bar. And as you say, if you were if you you were the only horse out in the front of the race, you're not gonna run as fast as you are with that competition around you. So, you know, and and we're lucky we've got good competition, but it competition in the right way, I wouldn't say. And we are, you know, we've created something I think where people do want each other to do well, you know, and it does work quite well. I mean, it's uh yeah, it's a much better atmosphere now. But I'm sure there's people that we have in our teams that go through tough times, and we don't even know about them. Yeah, you know, and that's what I I say to everybody speak to me. I mean, I say to everybody, I'm uh hopefully I'm approachable enough that uh that everyone will speak to me, but you know, you just don't know what other people are going through.
SPEAKER_01:I don't think it's also you not being approachable, I think it's just sometimes people just don't want to talk about it and they find it really difficult. And obviously, we had a really sad instant recently where you know that that impacted um it, but it really brought it to home to me, which was you have no idea what people are going through, like zero idea, just no, you like a lot a lot of people that wear their heart on their sleeves, that's that's great, and you can you can tell, but a lot of people don't.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, a lot of people very good at masking things, and as we know, that's a problem across across across the world, especially in men. But yeah, it's uh speak about it, yeah. Tough times, as you say, tough times don't last, and and one thing that I think is really important as well is that if it isn't for you, uh we're not scared to tell you that. Yeah, like you know, we've had people come in six months, we've sat down and gone, like, listen, this isn't working out, rather than them go through all of their savings and drag it all out and thinking, you know, we either redirect them or help them move into a different thing, but but you know, it isn't for everybody, exactly, you know, and that's important.
SPEAKER_01:But it's also realising that yourself as well, isn't it? Like, if it's really, really not for you and you are not getting like it's gonna be tough and you're gonna go through shit points. Not everything is easy, yeah. And all this whole kind of oh follow your passion and just do whatever easy, like that is bullshit because there's a lot of days that you wake up and you're like, Well, I don't want to, but you know, I would say 99% of the time I really enjoy what I do, yeah. It's you know, one or two percent of the time I'm really good. I just not I'm not I'm not on this. Um, but also making the changes to give yourself that life is short and like it's not a rehearsal, you're not you know, you're not training up something else, it's like you need to you need to do what you're interested in, but you also need to give things time to work out as well. That's the key, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, time time is you give me someone that that works impeccably hard and listens, in time they will be a success. If you're gonna listen and you can learn, you'll be a success. You can have some of the most talented people come in and they're out the door at 5.25 and they don't listen and and they're they they fail. And you know, both people, if they gave it time and worked hard, will get there, but that time part is the most important.
SPEAKER_01:The time part being how long it takes. Like if you're not gonna become a financial planner within six months, you're not gonna become a financial planner within a year. It's gonna take you a good three, four, five years to really start building up a good practice and and learning, which is which is key.
SPEAKER_00:And if people tell you you are generally I think they're lying. Yeah. Because someone come out 12 months, you'll do your thing, you'll be examined for nobody can learn this entire profession from ground up in a in 12 month period. You can be you can be further along, you might be further along.
SPEAKER_01:And it's actually quite like a hockey stick as well. Yeah, you know, like you will you will be definitely climbing up, but you're nowhere near gonna be ready. You'll definitely know more, and you will definitely be in a better position 12 months if you listen and you do what we say and that and you move along. But yeah, I think it's uh I think it's I think it's interesting, isn't it? Well look, I hope um I hope you found that interesting and I hope you realise that everyone goes through tough times, you know, along the way and continue, will continue to go through tough times. Tough times don't last, tough people do. Uh I hope Jake's and mine experiences at least keep someone on the straight and narrow, and if they feel like quitting uh or they feel like hanging up their boots, then uh hopefully this uh this changes their changes their mind and you stick at it. Um but yeah, hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please like uh the video or the podcast and please subscribe. Uh it massively helps us know who's watching and and who's uh who's enjoying it. And we hope you have an amazing week ahead. Enjoy.