Dont Shoot The Messenger
Hi, I'm Chris Ball, and welcome to my podcast, "Don't Shoot the Messenger."
My no-nonsense approach to building wealth and scaling businesses comes from real experience, not theory. I’ve built an international financial planning company with $3.3bn assets under management. I have coached top performers and seen what works (and what doesn’t) up close.
This podcast is for the ones who are done with fluff:
- The high earners who still feel broke
- The entrepreneurs are burning out trying to chase growth
- The ambitious professionals who are starting to question the game they’re playing
- And anyone who’s beginning to realise that more isn’t always better
I’m not here to coddle. I’m here to be honest.
You might not like everything I have to say, but I’m not here to be liked.
I’m here to help you get clear, get focused, and get real results.
All I ask is: Don’t Shoot the Messenger.
This is a Financial Planner Life Production 🎬
Dont Shoot The Messenger
Inside an £11 Billion SJP Office: The Truth About Top Financial Advisors
In this conversation, Chris sits down with Jamie McNish, Regional Director at Hoxton Wealth London, who previously led an £11 billion office with over 250 advisors at St. James’s Place (SJP). Jamie shares hard won lessons from decades working across Tenerife, Madrid, Dubai, Singapore and the UK, and what he looks for in truly exceptional advisers.
In this episode, you will learn:
- Advisor performance and career growth
- The habits that separated the top 10 per cent of SJP advisors from the rest
- Why work ethic and consistency still decide who wins in advice
- How to build momentum in your first 6 to 12 months as a planner
- Prospecting, networking and niche
- Why social media alone will not build your advice business
The traits Jamie looks for when bringing advisors into Hoxton’s UK business
Why community, collaboration and accountability matter more than ever
How the Hoxton platform removes friction so advisors can spend more time with clients
If you want to see what life in Hoxton Wealth is like, please visit: / @hoxtonlife
For more information on Hoxton Wealth careers, please https://www.careers-page.com/hoxtonwealth.com
For my videos by Chris, please visit his Youtube: @ChrisBallHoxton
Welcome to another episode of Don't Shoot the Messenger. And today I have a special guest direct uh in from the UK, Jamie. He led an 11 billion pound AUM office and managed over 250 advisors.
SPEAKER_01:And I always remember getting a call from a recruitment cons uh recruitment consultant saying, do you speak Spanish? Yeah, speak Spanish. So they're looking for an Italian speaker. How's your Italian? So I don't speak any Italian at all. You will have seen huge amounts of people come through.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I had a brilliant 10 years at SJP and um you see others that are doing it, uh doing it and getting better results, you know, why is it not happening for me? Still trusted relationships, speak to people, listen to people. It's great having a social media presence, but it's not going to help you advise the client. Those that work the hardest tend to have the most of the best results. What things would you tell them to focus on if they were going back to the UK? I think it's dangerous. It's removing the friction and then also giving you the support, the guidance, and the background as well to help you tune on and go forward. So welcome to another episode of Don't Shoot the Messenger. And today I have a special guest direct uh in from the UK, Jamie. Uh so Jamie McNeish is the regional director at Hoxton Wealth London. So he looks after our London uh operations uh and our expanding uh South of England uh business. Uh Jamie's background was he was 10 years at St. James's place. Uh he led an 11 billion pound AUM office and managed over 250 advisors. So a great guest to have on today uh to talk through normal kind of things that appeal to financial planners and IFAs. Uh, and I'm really looking forward to having on here to touch on career lessons, advisor performance, cross-border insights, and obviously some more industry troops as well. So welcome, Jamie. Thank you. Great to be here.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome. Um, so first off, help uh people understand a bit about your background. So as I understand, you grew up well, you grew up in Tenerife and you went to the a university in Madrid, but you were, you know, you were kind of living abroad from an early age.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we moved to Tenerife when I was a kid. Um I went was sent back to boarding school, but got a thirst for living abroad and being a bit of a being uh being an expat. Um so when university came around, I went to Madrid and I ended up spending around four years there. Yeah. And uh yeah, just love travelling and visiting and experiencing new places.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because it's interesting because normally we're talking to people that actually live outside of the UK and advisors outside of the UK, but obviously you've you've worked your way back. But you haven't always worked in the UK, have you? So you started off um working intentionally uh and you uh have you was actually in Dubai in Uh Dubai for 10 years, almost 10 years.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. Um 30s. Yeah. Um it's been quite different then. Yeah, I we left. Not saying you're old and it's like I wouldn't take it that way, but we I mean we left in 20 end of 2015, and um yeah, being back here right now, I mean Dubai changes so quickly. So quickly. And uh and there's a lot of things that are still the same, and there's a lot of um opportunity to reminisce. Um, but at the same time, the amount of buildings that were just shot up and driving the driving out yesterday and to uh to the Emmett Road, the amount of traffic now is incredible. It was always busy, but I never thought it would get busier, but it is it's it's crazy.
SPEAKER_00:It's insanely busy. I think all the peak guys from the office will uh will attest to that. Yeah, hour-long journey home and everything else like that. And you worked for Eagle Star, which obviously turned into Zurich.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Originally I was well, I was a broker consultant originally um when I sort of left university, did a few little jobs, and then became broker consultant for Norwich Union. And I always remember getting a call from a recruitment consult a recruitment consultant saying, Do you speak Spanish? I said, Yeah, I speak Spanish. We've got this opportunity um for Eagle Star International, they're looking for an Italian speaker. How's your Italian? So I don't speak any Italian at all. He goes, but they're quite close, shall we have a go at it anyway? And um anyway, I got the job and um never went to Italy once, but was travelling around Europe looking after international IFA. It's a cool place, it's a cool thing to do in your mid-20s. Yeah, really cool. So you're based from here. I was based then in London, in London, and um travelling around Europe, then then expanded to a global a global job, travelling around Asia, Middle East, um, and then I applied for a role in Dubai and um came out here in 2006. Nice, and then you were one of the first firms in the DIFC, weren't you? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, back in 2006, um Zurich International, we were in the gate building in the DIFC. The gate village was being built at the time, so all the buildings around it didn't exist. Um underneath the gate building, where where all the shops and restaurants are, now I think there's one caribou coffee, I seem to remember. Um, one pizza place, and that was it. Um, we'd go over to Scarlet's Bar and Emirates Towers for a beer after work, and that was pretty much that whole area.
SPEAKER_00:And now there's about 10 gazillion restaurants by hotels, everything up there, isn't it? It is it is crazy how much it gets it gets built up and built on. And then you went to Singapore as well, didn't you? Um for a stint, for a short stint.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, it was um it was interesting. We had never any intention to really leave Dubai, but got we got a really nice offer to go and move to Singapore. I thought we'd give it a try. Didn't quite work out, so so the the company that was with Zurich at the time decided to withdraw their life business from the Singapore market after only being there eight months. So so it was it was a challenging time moving the family, my wife and children all the way out to Singapore, taking them out of school, and then eight months later finding out that the job didn't exist anymore. So at that point we had to make a decision what to do and um decided probably with with education in mind as well for the children. So we can keep moving around, probably moving back to the UK would give us the best stability going forward. So that's what we did.
SPEAKER_00:And how did you find moving back to the UK? Obviously, you had being a long-term ex-mat growing up abroad, and then now you moved back to the UK and haven't left. Um, how how did how did you find the adjustment there, Matt?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I found it the adjustment for me personally was was quite easy because busy working straight into straight into a job, working really hard. I think with family it was more difficult because I didn't have that distraction that I that I had. Um but it's time to get back into the UK after being away for so long in our industry, um, it's quite challenging. You know, I I had I mean I show my age, I did the financial planning certificate, FPC 1, 2, and 3. I did some other exams, but I wasn't level four qualified because I didn't need it over here. I didn't need it at that time in Singapore. So so I had to catch up on those things. And then speaking to recruitment consultants back in the UK, they're like, what's your network like? Well I said, What? You know, I've been I've been overseas for 10 years. I don't have I don't have a network. So finding a an employer that would that would bring me on a role that I felt was suitable was really difficult. But in the end, I got um a really good offer to go and join St James's place. Um taking a big step down in terms of seniority and also and also package um almost felt like starting again. Yeah um but yeah, it was I was I was delighted to get that offer and and get the opportunity to go back and start again because obviously being made redundant's a scary time for anyone.
SPEAKER_00:100% it's it's it's not nice, is it? But you got into a role with St James's Place, yeah, like you said, and kind of never looked back from there, you know. I mean you you built up uh an amazing uh an amazing career with them. Um so how how did it go like when you started with SJP and you started to to rebuild your career back in the UK?
SPEAKER_01:Um, well, it I I mean I had a brilliant 10 years at SJP, and um, you know, the one thing about that business, certainly at that time, um it rewarded good people for good performance really well. So so if you went in there, worked hard, did a good job, um, you had such a great opportunity for career career progression. Yeah. Um, you know, so so I just did what I've always done, which is go and build relationships, build trusted relationships, speak to people, listen to people, then hopefully help them um get better. And and through the course of the 10 years, I think I did four different roles to AP. Yeah. And um and really enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_00:It was it was a great place to be. Fantastic. And what obviously you start, I think you like you started off by managing a few advisors, and then you kind of progressed to managing 250 advisors with um with 11 billion uh of assets in that Knightsbridge office, which you know is an insane amount of money. What separates advisors who succeed from those who don't? Because obviously you've seen a lot of people come through, and I, you know, that was 250 advisors at one point, but there would have been a hell of a lot of people that came and a hell of a lot of people that left during that period as well.
SPEAKER_01:Um I mean, there are so many, so many things, right? There's so many things, and and and the the the the nice thing about the SV partnership, it's it's it's hugely diverse. There's people from all walks of life, all backgrounds, all experience levels, all ages. Um, so you do get the opportunity to work with a huge array of different characters and individuals. But I mean, it's an old cliche. Those that work the hardest tend to have the most the best results, and and that's really true in this business. Yeah. You know, this is um never a lifestyle business. So there's a lot of people that think they can come in, you know, if they're self-employed, work three days a week, you know, have a five you know, have a four or five day weekend, yeah. Um, and it doesn't work. It doesn't work. You have to earn the right to get to that point. Yeah. Uh you have to build the business, have the plant relationships, and that takes hard work. Like starting any starting any business, whether it's a retail business, a hospitality business, or a financial services business, in the early years, it's all about the work. It's working seven days a week. It's it's not taking holidays, it is putting everything into it. And those that have done that and seen it that way tend to be a success. Yeah. Those that think they can come in and do it a couple of days a week and um and go to the gym and do other things and have two months off in the summer for holiday, it's a really hard, it's a really hard place to be.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it is tough. And I think that I think people who really don't put the effort in up front just pro-loll that where like you said, with whatever business you there's there's always a time to get off the ground. Yeah. And if you can do, you know, I'd say normally it's between six to twelve months, roughly, you know, that before you really start getting inertia and getting the flywheel spinning. If it takes you, you can do that six months and three months if you work super hard, but that six months or twelve months can turn into two, three years, at which point a lot of people lose interest because it's not going as quick, and you see others that are doing it, uh doing it and getting better results, you know, why is it not happening with me? And like you said, it's just repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition. It's the only way to get good at things, absolutely, especially when you're first starting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think it's really difficult, you know, working with a lot of people that were new to the advice business through through the academy. Um so many distractions for them now. I think more than ever. And particularly if you're starting a business, you need to learn to become a business owner, you need to learn to become an administrator, you need to learn to become a marketeer, um, social media, and become a financial planner. Yeah. Right? But actually, the most important thing is the time that you're sat in front of that client. That is the time that that matters the most. And if you're not doing that, you're not getting better. No. Um, so that's it's that's where it's really difficult for new people. They don't have enough people to see, and they're not sat in front of clients, they're not having these conversations, they're not getting better. Yeah. Um, but they are what they are building is an amazing social media platform, and and they are, you know, brilliant at writing suitability letters if they ever get a case to do. Yeah. But they don't have any case to do. They don't get a case to do. And uh, so it's what we what I used to see is those that were starting out trying to start a business and do everything else compared to those that just focused on being financial planners at the outset, was a big difference in success. Yeah. You know, it's because being a being a great financial planner, sitting in front of clients, asking them a great question, really listening to them, that's the skill. Yeah. That's the rest, the rest will follow.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And you've got to get good at that, because otherwise, again, if you you can be the best marketeer in the world, and if you're putting yourself, I talk about prospecting a lot, but if you put yourself in front of a hundred people and you have no idea or no empathy, or you're just getting yourself in front of the people, then you know, you're not going to be able to do it. But also, shoe on the other foot, you need to get in front of those people to be able to learn and do it as well, don't you? Prospect is key.
SPEAKER_01:And you know, it's again, it's how much time do people put themselves out there prospecting. Yeah. Using the different means.
SPEAKER_00:Rather than focusing on some of the other distractions that are around. 100%. And that's it, it's it's focus, isn't it? Like, and it's not getting distracted by shiny new object over there. Well, you know, oh, I've got to be this master on LinkedIn and try and generate, you know, that stuff comes after.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You need to, you need I think you know you summed it up perfectly, you need to earn the right to do stuff like that, whether it is working three days a week or whether it is spending most of your time on social media trying to retract that doesn't, you know, it's great having a social media presence, but it's not going to help you advise the client.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's it's really important, you know, when we talk about marketing, there's so many different ways to do that. And you and social media is a huge part of that right now. Yeah. Um, but it's not the most important thing. Yeah. And it won't it won't help you, I'm in my opinion, and which on my age again, but it won't help you start the business. No. I think it will I think once you get going, it can help you grow it. Yeah. Agreed. But that part of the initial inertia that you need to get your first client, your first 10 clients, you're not going to do that through social media.
SPEAKER_00:I don't think. I I 100% agree. I think um if I look at our kind of social media journey as a business and myself, I mean, for the first 13 years of my career, I never really took it seriously at all. Yeah. I never really did anything on it. And, you know, when we started Hoxton for the first five, six years, we didn't really do anything. It was, yeah, we put a few adverts out and we would look to attract people that way, paid uh made advertising, but you know, going on and waxing lyrical about how great we are on LinkedIn and other platforms, we just didn't do because we were trying to earn the right to do that. And then you get to a point and then and then you can do it. Obviously, what I love about SJP, yeah, and you know, we will talk about Hoxton eventually, but I know I think it's also important to talk about the great things that other businesses do. One thing that I thought that SJP was really good at previously was bringing people through. So many good quality advisors have come from SJP. You have good and bad in every business, everywhere, but it's given opportunity to a hell of a lot of people, which is really cool. Um, and you know, I I think that's one of the great things about business in general is is providing opportunities to people that may not have had it and providing them with a career path where you know they might not have been able to go down. You will have seen huge amounts of people come through, you know, the academies and uh all the stuff, way more than you know, if I I say, for instance, I've had people on here, Rabbi, um, you know, maybe JJ to a certain extent. Uh, Jacob's seen a lot of new people, but you know, when we say to a successful advisor, yeah, what made you know, what did you do when you first started? What were the three or four things that you focused on that propelled you forward? You've seen hundreds of new people come in, and probably, I don't know, 10, 20% have gone on to do really, really great things. There's probably a banding that have, you know, have you know kind of done well. Yeah. But you know, the the 10, 20% that have gone on to do awesome things, taking out the client, um, you know, focusing on the client, obviously that's the most important things. But what other things did they do right at the start that you saw them and you were kind of like, ah, that you know, they're really good or they're gonna make it.
SPEAKER_01:Look, I think I think I'll go back to I mean, work ethic. I always remember those, you know, some of our most successful people, the first in the office, last out. This is this is this is their life, they see the importance of it. Yeah, I think surrounding themselves with really good people and taking advice. Yeah, okay. Not thinking you have all the answers yourself, yeah. Learning, listen to people. You know, the the the the great thing about uh a company like SJP is there are there are so many other people that have walked the walk already. Um so why not why not use that? Yeah, okay, why not learn from others? Don't have to copy what they do, but certainly look look at the good things that they do, adapt it, make it your style. But that that if you're not using that opportunity, then you're missing you're missing the biggest trick there is out there. Yeah. You know, so so look at who are the best people around, who do you who would you like to follow, who would you like to be like, perhaps, um and and talk to them and listen to them and learn from them. And I think that's the same everywhere, including here at Hogston. Yeah. You know, we we should I I think you know, SJP there is a real culture of collaboration. Yeah. You know, and and in and in management, we did a lot of work around trying to give that opportunity, bring people together through peer groups and and and different types of meetings where you would bring different advisors together so they could learn from each other. Yeah. Because actually we do a lot of work with you can train people all you want, yeah. But actually the best people to teach others are people that are doing the job. Yeah, yeah. Agreed. And that's where that really, really works well. So those those individuals that really leaned into others, really listened to others, really tried to learn from others, they're the ones I think that went on and did the best.
SPEAKER_00:And that is probably one of the problems just with a network in general, just going to join a network when you first start, you would never ever get that. Whereas like a St. James's piece, which is effectively a network, but it's that whole kind of piece that's over the top, which you know helps you be around people. And you know, that that's why I say, you know, people say to me, Well, you know, I can go and earn 50 bit, five bips, 10 bips extra down the road. And I'm like, great, but you'll do 50 to 60% less because you won't be surrounded by people that are doing good things, you know. And I I I I've seen that first hand. When you surround yourself with people that are doing big things, you will do big things. When you surround yourself with people that maybe aren't uh, you know, and you don't have the ability to learn from them and see what they're doing, it really, really stunts your growth because you don't know the art of the possible. You limit your beliefs based on what you think. Yeah, exactly. Not what's actually possible. And that's why I like looking at some of the US firms as well, because like we talk about, you know, what's big in Dubai, you know, 5 billion would be seen as a big firm, 10 billion would be seen as a massive firm in the UK, SJP 160, 200 billion. Go over to the US, 400, 500 billion, different levels. Yeah, it's levels do. I mean, even if you let's you take Schwab, I mean Schwab manages trillions and they have advisors that work for him. It's like that's that's the possible. That's the art of where you that's the that's where you can get to. And it's a hundred percent true with the people in your business as well that you work with. If you don't surround yourself with people that are pushing themselves and that understand the art of the possible, you can't see it, then you you don't tend to, you know, you you grow to the size of your tank. The the
SPEAKER_01:This is the this is a people business. It always it always will be. And it's I think being a financial advisor, particularly in the early days, it can be a really lonely job. Particularly if you're self-employed, you work from home, you don't have no one else around you. You have good days which are great, you have bad days which can be terrible. If you don't have other people you can call upon that have shared, that have been through those experiences, they can help you get through those, it's really difficult. Yeah. Um, so you know, building that community, I should be very good at it. Um because they had a network, if you like, for people working from home. How do you make them feel part of something? How do you bring them together so they can learn from each other and do the things you've just been talking about, which is which is learn from others that are that are already walking the walk. So so that's that's a real challenge in this business, and they they've done it for many years really well. And I think our office culture here, I mean the office here in Dubai, um, it's just bustling, right? It's just full of people all talking and helping each other, which is a really great place to be.
SPEAKER_00:100%. And that's it. It's like, and I think you again, it's like we talk from work from home and going in the office, and I can definitely see the attraction from working from home a day or two a week, and I I get that now, way more than I ever did previously. But I also see the the massive uptick that you get in people's attitude and their, you know, an attitude, not like your attitude stinks, but attitude is in, you know, their belief in themselves and what they can do, and like when you converse with others, because you don't get that set at home on your own. You don't get it.
SPEAKER_01:You don't get it. When you've got a you know, you can jump on a team's call, but it just feels like a hassle to do it. Whereas when you can turn around and talk to somebody or walk across the office or go for a coffee or a beer out to work, and do you know what I've had this client issue, or I've had a really bad day today, those things you just cannot do on Teams or on phone calls. And uh, and that that's you can't do it, it's just it's really important.
SPEAKER_00:One thing I've noticed about working with you is that you take networking really seriously. Like, you know, you actively go and have lots of coffees with people, you know, lunch, like you really do that, and that's almost a dying trait in a lot of people now, you know. It's like again, it'll just well, let's just jump on a team school. I when I go when I'm back in London, I love going to see people, I love seeing people here as well. Teams is great just to qualify, yeah. I think how how have you used networking in your career to develop relationships with people and how important has it been to you?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, I'm fortunate that that I'm based in London, and London's one place left, I think, in the world where you can really do that still. You can get around London really quickly, and there's just no reason not to meet somebody in person. Yeah. Um, so you know, there's no reason why I sat behind a screen trying to talk to somebody. It doesn't work for me. I think this is much more powerful. Um, you know, we were always, you know, in my whole career, it's always been about face-to-face, whether it's face-to-face advice with clients or face-to-face relationship building. Um, so you know, I get the importance of teams, and you know, when we're working across countries and, you know, across borders, it's hugely valuable and allows us to do a lot more than we could do. But if we can get in front of people, you know, I always talk to advisors about how many people have you seen this week, how many people have you told what you do? Um, okay, start at that point. How many people have you told what you do and how you can help them and then work back from there? And I kind of see it the same. How many people have I told who we are and what we do? Yeah. Um, from all different parts of the business and the industry. Um, because that's what it's about. People need to know who we are and what we do. That's how we're going to grow the business.
SPEAKER_00:So how how many uh people would you say that an advisor should be looking to see on a weekly basis?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, it's it's a it's a probably a difficult question to quantify, but you know, I think what an advisor needs to do is set themselves a weekly goal target to achieve, right? What's right for them? Um I think the number can really, really differ individual to individual, but they need they should, in my opinion, set themselves a goal.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um and reward themselves for achieving it.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And and it should be short term. You know, you start off with your big big great objective that you want to achieve, break that down monthly, break it down weekly, even daily. You know, today, what is what is what how many people do I want to talk to today? Um and and go and do that. And I think if you work on that basis, um you'll get to that great big objective that you're going to achieve. Um, it's that roadmap to success that's really important. But if you don't know what you're trying to do this week, you just won't do anything. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and what these things don't happen by accident. Goals and targets are very, very important. And then having someone to hold you accountable to them is. Yeah, I mean, you should good people can hold themselves accountable.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, everyone slips though, you know. They do. They do. And you know, one of the roles that I've always played is you know, helping helping people hold themselves accountable and then holding them accountable as well.
SPEAKER_00:And I think that that can really help. How important would you say it's early on in your career to have someone to hold you accountable?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I've always had always always been driven by targets, yeah. Um, weekly calls, where are we with it? And you know, I love that because it it just keeps you really honest. Yeah. And it keeps you thinking about it. Yeah. I think in the in the world at SJP, when I joined there, that was very much the case there. That kind of started to disappear over time. Um, I think, you know, culturally that's moving away from our business a bit. Yeah. And you know, that focus on targets and numbers, but it's really important. Yeah. Because it focuses people's minds on what's really important. And look, this is about seeing lots of people because we help them.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right? We've got to remember that when we sit down with the client, we are help making their life better. Yeah. We're help helping them. So it's not just the revenue. It's not just not about revenue. You know, the revenue follows. As soon as we start thinking about the money, we we miss the point. So you've got this focus has got to be on the client who did a great job for the client, and we then then the money will always follow that. Um, and then the more people we can do that for, the more people we're helping.
SPEAKER_00:And that's and that's what people kind of get twisted, didn't they? Because they was when you have a target or when you just well, it's just for it's just for revenue. And it's not really 100% like you said, if you just focus on those pounds and pence, what's coming in and you know what you can do on that basis, you will never be a great advisor. You will never have lots of clients. If you are providing them with a solution to their problem that can help them and push them forward, you will do amazingly well. And you will be rewarded for that. Yeah, like you said, you know, if that that that's it. But yeah, it's it's really interesting what you you know, you were saying there that you know, if you frame it as I'm doing people a disservice by not speaking to them uh and they're not gonna get the help that they need, then actually having a target or you know, uh a kind of goal that you want to achieve is is not is not a bad thing. I know, look, we we we encourage all of our planners to have targets and to have goals um in terms of meeting numbers, in terms of you know, people that they need to see. Um and you know, there's this it's it's very it's very easy to spot the ones who do really well versus the ones that aren't, because the ones that do really well see lots of people and help lots of people.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Every business, doesn't matter what industry you're in, what profession you're in, every business has targets. You know, we're no different. What we do is we help people and make their lives better. The more people we can do and we focus on that, how many clients are you going to see? You know, in our meetings on a weekly basis, we we sit down and we review the previous week and we talk about client stories. Yeah, so yeah, so what clients did you see? What conversations did you have? How did you help that client? What were the challenges that they were facing? And that, you know, that's a really good conversation. It's not about what numbers did you do. You know, that's important, but it's not the key thing. The key thing is how did we help those clients?
SPEAKER_00:And if we focus on that, all the rest follows. 100%. And I think it's the passion as well. You know, you have to be passionate and believe in what you do as well. Because if you're not passionate about it, you're never going to be great at it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and if you don't believe in what you do, you're never going to be great either. You know, like you have to have that belief and you have to have that passion to be able to do really well. Um, okay, well, let's let's shift a little bit then. So obviously you've returned back to the UK. So advisors who are based internationally, yeah, had enough of the bar, they are had enough of Europe and had enough, and they're now looking to go back, they do have to rebuild and reskill and retrain. What things would you tell them to focus on if they were going back to the UK?
SPEAKER_01:I first of all make sure it's what you really want. It's blooming cold in the UK at the moment. I mean you look and you look out here, and this is I mean, it's it needs to be something you really want to do, and there are lots of reasons why you might want to do it. I think it's scary in our business almost having to start again, because you do. The UK is a very competitive, developed market, unlike some of the international markets. Yeah. You know, it's highly competitive. It's you know, there's lots of people that are really well qualified, they're really experienced, they are looking for the same roles, opportunities that you're looking for. Um but you know, I think if you've this if you've done it before, you'll do it again. Right? If you've if if you built up before you can build it again, I think self-confidence is so important. Having confidence in yourself that that you can be a success, regardless of whether you're in Dubai or in Asia or in the Far East or whether you're in the UK, you'll get there. You know, so if you've got the work ethic and you've got self the confidence to do it, um build the network, do your research, but it just just go and do it. And it's the same for those that are thinking about coming out here, for example. You know, we had an amazing 10 years out here, what an experience it was. And um, you know, I wouldn't change it for the world. But we were brave enough to give it a go. Yeah. Talk to a lot of people that they're thinking about doing it, well, probably maybe it's not the right time. So if it's what you want to do, yeah, just go for it. What's the worst that can happen?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you've got to go through it, and I think you've but you've also got to kind of really go through it. Like you said, you've almost got to burn the boats. Yeah. You know, there's no point going, well, I've still got this back there, and you know, worst case if I don't, you know, kind of you know, I can cut always just flow back there. Like people going internationally, as soon as I hear that, you know, like, oh, I'm gonna give it six months, it's like no, we we will not take you on if you're just gonna give it a go for six months. Yeah, just that you were committed and you've got to do it and you've got to, you know, you've got to put a plan in place. And you know, same as if you're returning back to the UK. There can be no this, well, you know, if I just if it's not what I expected, I can always, you know, just float back. No, like if you're gonna go to the UK, that's your life, and you need to you need to get ingrained. And it is gonna be tough over the past six months, you know. The sugar coating, like you said, is I think where people kind of um get it wrong. They kind of, you know, to I'll be fine. Like a lot of cases it will be fine, but also you've got to, I think sometimes if you if you expect hard and that's what you have in your mind, if it doesn't happen, great, because it's happened better, but then at least you've not tricked yourself into kind of it's all gravy and it's all rainbows and roses and you know, who knows?
SPEAKER_01:It was I mean, when we moved back originally, it was it was really difficult. You know, but we took I took a role which was, as I said earlier, which was much more junior than where I was currently. My family stayed out in Asia. Um, I was living in a small one-bedroom flat in Oval in South London. Um, and it was really, really difficult. And and nobody cared. And that's one thing, the biggest thing I learned probably, nobody cared about my background. Yeah, nobody cared about all these great jobs I had in all these amazing countries. Nobody cared. Yeah. Um, and so you've just got to be really honest with yourself, get stuck in, yeah, and be confident that if you've done it before, you can do it again. And that I think is really important.
SPEAKER_00:And if someone else is doing it, why can't you? Absolutely. So people that have, and I suppose that kind of leads us nicely into again for people that are changing careers. So people coming back what people expect. But again, another great thing that SJP have done is help people just shift careers and shift into financial advice. So, but for you know, for for career changes, you know, what would you say to them? Like what skills matter the most? What skills are transferable from a lot of the jobs that you see, and you know, actually what extra skills that they have to be?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think I think firstly, there's such a huge need for people to change careers and come into financial services. There's there's a real lack of financial advisors in the UK market in particular. You know that. We know the stats, we know how the numbers have reduced, we know the average age is I think it's mid-50s still, although I find it hard to believe when I look around, there's lots of young advisors coming through now, which is great. But um, but the the quoted number, I think, is 57 or 56, so that is the average age. So there's a huge need for it. And I, you know, I always ask people, well, why do you want to do this job? And it's really telling sometimes the reason. But, you know, if people see this as an opportunity to help others, um, to spend time with people, then those are the ones I think can be a success. Yeah. You know, when you ask somebody why do you want to do this, it's because they want to earn a lot of money and travel. That's probably not the right answer. Yeah, um, and you get that quite a lot. Uh the right answer is if you if you enjoy helping people, if you love talking to people, listening to their stories, if you're genuinely curious about people, if you're interested in in and what they've got to say in their life story, then you could be really good at this job. Yeah. Um, but if it's if it's not about those things, if it's about some of the financial opportunities, um, just about the career progression, then perhaps that's not the right place for you.
SPEAKER_00:You've got to get you've got to get it right to do that. Out of interest, what career, you know, people that have come from certain careers have you typically seen do the best?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, it it's so varied. We get a we used to get a lot of um people from things like accountancy backgrounds, okay. Um you know, already good with numbers. Yeah. Um doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna be good at financial advice. Yeah. You have to be good with um client servicing and the and the and great with people and accountants. Uh I'm not gonna be talk badly about accountants, but um no, but the people skills are really important, obviously, as I keep saying. Um, but yeah, there's I mean all different backgrounds from um broking and investment banking through to you know, people in in retail, yeah. Um lots of um, you know, it's a really good opportunity for people returning to work after perhaps having children and and building a family, there's a really good opportunity in financial services for that. Um there's no real one area I would say where people have come and and and that really works. I think actually it doesn't matter. Okay. If you if you've got that that desire and that that work ethic and that you enjoy being with people, I think you can be a success at this regardless of where you've come from.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting. Yeah, I think I think that's true as well. I think if you've got it, got it, you know, you shouldn't you shouldn't let it hold you back. Interestingly enough, I thought you were gonna say like sports people or or things like that, people that have had like lots of discipline and used to hard work, and then you know, maybe they've got to the end of their career early on and now they're looking for something else. Because I know at SJP there was a lot there, but you didn't say that.
SPEAKER_01:No, and look, there are that that can work as well. Look, I've seen sports people come in and do brilliantly, but I've also seen found it very difficult. And and you know, it's a lot of people come in and I'm gonna focus on the football market. I mean, that's such a difficult market to do, and I very rarely see people I make a real success of that. Yeah. Um so so it's again, it comes back to that thing. We've had, you know, in SJP, we had rugby players and footballers and golfers and and everything else. And some of them have been great, yeah. I've found it much easier, others have found it really difficult. So it really it really determines on on who it is.
SPEAKER_00:You also said there, like people coming in and like trying to go after a specific market. How important when you start to niche in terms of not, you know, I'm just gonna speak with footballers, but actually go, do you know what? So I'm gonna build up a great business around looking after dentists or a great business after looking around doctors, or I'm gonna build a great business looking after um you know engineers. Like what what would you say?
SPEAKER_01:I think it's I think it's it's dangerous, okay, in my opinion. Yeah. And if you were an engineer, okay, and you've come from that background and you've got an amazing network in the engineering space, then possibly that could be a good place to be. Um but if that's not if you've decided that's where you want to be, I want to work with dentists, and you've never been a dentist and you've never been in that industry, that becomes really difficult and you're really narrowing your opportunities. Um, you know, I a big strong a strong believer in in the early days, everyone should benefit from your advice. Yeah. Yeah. Should be broad, yeah. Everyone should you you can't be picky.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and everyone should benefit from what you've got to how you can help them. And then as your business grows, you can then start to work out where you're really good. Yeah. Where are the clients that you're really helping, who are the people you enjoy working with the most, and then start to narrow your focus in on that and build your niche from there. Because I don't think at the start when you're starting a business, you really know your niche, unless, as I say, you know, if you've if you've come from a sporting background and you've got an amazing network, then that might automatically take you down that road. But other than that, you don't know.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So actually go for everything. 100% talk to everyone, yeah, help as many people as you can, and then build your business on that basis and decide where the niche takes you.
SPEAKER_00:100%. I I could not agree more. I found that with my own personal businesses where actually um you said that um initially I was like wide. I used to I used to actually work with a lot of teachers uh when I first started, just because there was a lot of teachers in Abu Dhabi uh that you know where um that that we could help. And then it progressed and you know, kind of built out um, you know, different people. Obviously, the Middle East is more oil and gas, so we started working with more people there, banking and all the rest of that stuff. So it was very wide, it was very wide. But actually, after a while, I really caught on to the fact that I was having a great, I was having great success with engineers because they were analytical and that suited me. Yeah. Whereas some people just didn't get on with any engineers because they couldn't get the directness and the, you know, like, well, you know, what you're saying is not common not common sense, but what you're saying does not follow how logically how I expect it to follow. Um and they, you know, they didn't do so well with them. Um, but it is very much person by person, but you're never gonna know. Well, this is you didn't know that at the start, right?
SPEAKER_01:So you didn't think about engineers at the start, but it's only when you worked with them you realized actually this this is a really good fit for me.
SPEAKER_00:And I think it sounds great on paper saying I'm gonna be hyper-targeted on this, but I think like you said, have finding that niche and what works for you. Yeah, and and but having a plan at the start is important.
SPEAKER_01:Having a plan at the start, having a direction of travel, and you know, if you if you're going down the marketing route, you might want to focus your marketing specific areas. I think it's important to be targeted um to a certain point. But but if you're too focused on a niche too early, you're really narrowing your market. Yeah. And and this is not an easy business. This is not easy. Anyone thinks they can walk in here and do this overnight, they've got it wrong. This is tough. You need to come in, you need to work really, really hard. So don't limit your opportunities, would be my would be my advice to anyone. And I think we talk about referral strategies a lot. Um, you know, and I always talk to the team about so who are your who are your favourite clients that you enjoy working with the most? Yeah. You know, who would you like to clone? Who would you like more of? Right? That's the people you should be focusing in your referral strategy on. And go talk to them and tell them how much you enjoy working with them and why you enjoy working with them, and ask them to help you grow your business. And if you if you do that really simple thing for 10 plus people, um, you get referrals. Yeah. Without a shadow of a doubt.
SPEAKER_00:100%. You do you do really.
SPEAKER_01:And you grow your business with the right sort of people that you want to work with. And that's you do well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So now let's look at your plans. So you've talked a lot about other people's plans and helping them plan. So let's look at your plans. So obviously you're heading up our London business. What are what would you say is the market opportunity in London? Because we were talking about this the other day, weren't we? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I I think it's endless. You know, I mean I love being in the city and just looking around. You know, where our office is right bang in the city. Yeah. And you've got all these different Amazon's building right opposite uh huge, huge tower just full of people from there. And just it just you just look around and see opportunity everywhere you go. So I think the I think it's limitless in London. Um so I'm I'm really excited about how we can build the business there, get the right people on board to help us grow it, and focus in on, you know, be seen as a leading financial planning business, um with a kind of USP where we can really help in people into that are internationally minded in the capital. I think that's really exciting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, agreed. I think it's huge. I think everywhere you go in London, every person you touch is potentially a client. Yeah. We were saying you've got Amazon's office right uh opposite ours, however many floors it is. God knows, must be like 30 floors. It's massive, that's huge. And then just down the road, you've got solicitor after solicitor after law firm after law firm. You know, it's like there are just so many uh legal firms down there, and then you've got obviously the whole investment world as well. So I every time I go back to them, I just I get buzzed up and charged up by it.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's so I think it's and people want to help I think a lot of people perhaps forget is that actually people want to help each other. Yeah. Um so I I go to more and more sort of networking events, and you mentioned it before. Um and it's really interesting you start talking to people what you do and and and how we how we help people. Um and and others are really interested in in working with you and some people are scared to go out and tell people and ask. Yeah. Absolutely if you go and ask, you'll be surprised about how many people want to work with you. And London is just full of networking groups and lunches, and I mean it can cost a fortune, you have to be a bit careful. It's not always great for the wasteline, but it's um it's it's a really good networking opportunity.
SPEAKER_00:And things go round, didn't they? Because I think before it was like over-networking, yeah. And now it seems, I don't know whether it's a a new generation of people that come through that maybe you know aren't don't like it as much, but there's obviously still a subset that really do. And actually, a lot of planners, I don't know how many planners you see at these networking groups and stuff, but I would say it's nowhere near as much as it used to be.
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and the you know, the quality of advice, the quality of advisor that that's out there as well now is is is much better too. What are the traits and habits and behaviours we've covered a few, but you would look for in in advisors coming into the London office?
SPEAKER_01:Okay, I I think you know, I well, I won't go back over the things we've talked about, but you know, we we're creating um a real community in our team across the whole of the UK business, and you know, so having the right people that aren't going to damage that community is really really important. So the culture part is is really important for me. I know it is for you. When we have our team meetings that are going to sit in the office and they're gonna help others, um, that's crucial, as well as all the other stuff that we look for and a good advisor, you know, the work ethic and the the ability of being curious and you know what wanting to help people, really, really important. But fitting into the team, um being part of what we're trying to achieve, being really excited about what we can achieve together, don't really want lawn wolves, people that want to go and do it themselves. Nice because actually there's no point coming to us. If you want to go and do it yourself, there's so many places you can go and do that. If you want to come and do it with us collectively, um, with our help and support, then we're all good has to be.
SPEAKER_00:It's alignment, isn't it? It's like being aligned and your objectives with each other and you know, understanding that not everyone is the same. No. That's completely fine. Yeah. What you believe in and you know, like what your actual you know core beliefs are, they have to be the same. Or not the not exact same, but you know, you your kind of attitudes have to align. Because otherwise, if not, then it's gonna be a complete waste of time for that person. It is. And then it's also gonna be a complete waste of time for us. Well they're not gonna enjoy it.
SPEAKER_01:They're not gonna enjoy it. They're not gonna enjoy being there and it's gonna be a challenging time. You know, we are we're a growing business, fast growing business, hugely ambitious. If if the people coming in don't don't share those ambitions um and that growth mindset, then it's gonna be a it's gonna be a difficult place to be. You know, it's uh it's not always easy to spot that in somebody. Yeah. And that's quite difficult to do, and but hopefully we'll get it right 80% of the time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, 100%. I mean, we want to try and get it, and we need to try and get it right as much as we can, don't we? Because otherwise, like you said, that you know damages the damages the the culture. Well and it impacts other people, right? As well. 100%, like them themselves as well. You know, it's like you impact people in the business, but it also impacts them as well. Yeah. You know, the people coming in. So it's it's super, super important. And how would you say that the platform that you're developing out in the UK, you know, what barriers does it remove? How does it support the growth culture that we you know that we've got?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, uh the key, what we want to do is let advisors go and do what they are brilliant at doing, okay, as much as possible, which is being sat in front of clients and and and helping them, right? So we can we can provide that platform that allows them to focus as much of their time as possible doing that, um, then we're on to a winner. So we'll take away all the other noise. You know, we our our our tech support is is incredible, you know, compared to what I've seen in other places, including my previous employers, what we give our advisors to to use with their clients is is game changing. It's absolutely game changing. And and you know, for people to when they see that and they they touch and feel it and they see how the power of what that is now and where it could take us, that's really important. Yeah. You know, and we have an amazing team of you know, power planners administrators as well in in the office. And uh so it's just it's just about freeing you up, but also then giving you that support around holding you accountable, yeah. Um, helping you have a plan, you know, helping you break that plan down and and and and achieve that on a on a daily, weekly, monthly basis so that you achieve your goals that you're trying to do because everyone's got their own vision for where they want to be. Um, so you know, we work very closely with our advisors to to to really visualize what their business could be like in the future and then help them think about how we're gonna take it there together. You're not on your own, we're here with you, and we're gonna help you achieve that. And I think that's really important.
SPEAKER_00:100%. 100%. I think it's um I think what you you know, what you've said there is it's removing the friction and then also giving you the support, the guidance in the background as well to help you tune on and go forward. Um, you know, and and I think there's also, and we've discussed this many times as well, but there's also a mix of opportunity for people partnering with us or acquiring their you know, their book of business and and and how that works. You know, maybe you can explain a bit more on that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean the the UK market, we know we've talked about the the challenge around lack of advisors and and the age, there's a lot of people coming to retirement um right now looking for really good homes for their clients. You know, if you've been if you've been doing this job for 20, 30 years, building your client book meticulously and carefully, and you know, selecting and working really closely with with people that are really important to you, you you want to be really careful about where you transition those clients into. Um, so you know, working very hard to create an environment where you'd be really happy to place your clients with us, you know, where they're going to get at least the same level, hopefully even better in terms of service than what you were able to provide before. Um, that's I think the the key to achieving this. Yeah. Rather than just being about how much am I going to get, clients put into a call center and called up once a year. And that's not what we do. If you want that, there are others that can do that for you and for your clients. Um, but if you want your clients to be cared for and be given a great service, face-to-face advice where appropriate, all of those things, great tech support, um, then that's I think what we can offer people. And I think that's that's different from a lot of the market. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think I I agree, and I I think it's I think it's a nice way to ensure that your clients get taken care of on an on-gound basis. Obviously, there's been a lot of care given to those clients along the way, and you don't want that to fall fall away. You know, it's hard to build a client boot.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. We've talked about it as well. They're friends. A lot of them they become your friends if they weren't at the start. Um, and so they're really important. The last thing you want to do is when you've when you've sold out and you're retiring is to get calls from your clients saying, Oh, this is terrible. What have you done? Where have you put me? I want to move somewhere else. You don't want that. No. You know, so hopefully we recreate a platform and an opportunity where where you just won't get that. Yeah. Okay, because we all look after your clients really well. Agreed. Awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Well, look, Jamie, that was absolutely fantastic. I hope uh I hope you enjoyed uh. I definitely enjoyed it. I've definitely learned a lot. Uh, I think there's a lot of people that can learn a lot from Jamie given his experience. Uh that's one thing that you can't get easily. Uh, and you have definitely seen a lot and definitely been a lot. So thank you very much. And I hope you enjoyed this episode of uh Don't Shoot the Messenger. Thanks very much.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you.