Ep 8 - PR That Builds Culture | Steven Gallo

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Steven Gallo, Vice President, Client Services at Reputation Ink, a B2B marketing and PR agency for professional services firms.

Steve shares how PR can be more than an external visibility tool — it can also be a powerful driver of internal culture and employee engagement. Drawing on his work with architecture, engineering, and construction firms, Steve explains how to connect internal wins to external storytelling, choose the right communication channels, and align PR with HR and operations.

In this Episode

• Why PR is about more than coverage — it’s about culture, credibility, and reputation (00:03:15)
• How PR can become part of an employee recognition strategy (00:14:35)
• Turning project wins and innovation stories into morale-boosting recognition (00:31:35)
• Why authentic employee voices resonate more than leadership soundbites (00:34:30)
• Creating a feedback loop with HR and operations to ground stories in reality (00:34:55)

Guest
Steven Gallo is Vice President, Client Services at Reputation Ink, a B2B marketing and PR agency that works with professional services firms. He helps clients align media strategy with both external reputation and internal culture, ensuring communications strengthen the brand from the inside out.

Resources

• Spill The Ink Podcast
• Reputation Ink website

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Follow the Hosts: Jerry Genneria & Carl Winstead

Learn More about TOKY & Cline

Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com

Transcript

Transcript

Track 1

[0:00]If you're a leader and you're viewing PR as a business development tool, then perhaps you're already ahead of some other leaders already,

[0:11]

The Power of PR

Track 1

[0:07]right, to even get there, because that's a conversation sometimes we have to have, right? But as we've said, right, it can be so much more than that. My message to those more reluctant leaders is, look, I mean, ultimately, PR is about storytelling and perception, right? It's culture shaping. It validates what the firm values. If you want to recruit better, retain better, build long-term trust, PR is just that vehicle of sharing the realities in your values, right? It has to be a part of that strategy.

Track 2

[0:46]Welcome to The Intangible Brand, the show where we explore the connection between employee experience and client experience and the hidden forces that make brands stick. I'm your host, Jerry Gennaria, and I'm joined by my co-host, Carl Winstead. Hello.

Track 3

[1:01]Today, we're talking with Stephen Gallo, Vice President of Client Services at Reputation, Inc., a PR and content agency that works at professional service firms, especially in the AEC space. Stephen leads their AEC practice and brings a sharp perspective on how PR can be more than a business development tool. It can actually shape a firm's internal culture, boost morale, and help attract values-aligned talent.

[1:32]

Shaping Internal Culture

Track 2

[1:27]You know, Carl, I've been looking forward to this conversation with Stephen for a little while now. Most people don't think of PR as having much of a role internally, particularly in creating great employee experiences. And we talk a lot about that connection between employee experience and client experience and how that creates brands. But I think there's this common thread with good storytelling as the foundation of PR and as being critical to creating great cultures. And we've been working with Stephen and the Reputation Inc. team for a little while now. So I know this is going to be a great conversation. So, Stephen, welcome to the show. And let's start with a little bit about your background. Can you walk us through what led you to focus on PR for AEC firms? Was there a moment maybe that you realized that this was more than just a communications challenge, but was something special?

Track 1

[2:18]Sure. And thanks to you both for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. So, I mean, in terms of my background, I started in TV as a TV reporter and journalist and made a shift over to PR. But what remained the same across both of those, as you mentioned, Jared, is the storytelling element, right, of bringing that information to audiences and breaking it down in a way that folks can understand. And so when I shifted and started working at the agency, I found myself really drawn to these complex industries that are often misunderstood. And they're also kind of just have some more fun stories to tell and a little more challenging to unpack. But AEC for me clicked when I realized the stakes, right? I mean, these are the firms that literally shape the world we live in and the built environment, right? And yet they can often struggle to articulate their value because they're really good at what they do and not necessarily at communicating what they do. And so, yeah, that was my turning point, realizing that PR isn't just about coverage, but ultimately about culture, credibility and long term reputation.

Track 2

[3:27]Perfect.

[3:28]

The Unique AEC Landscape

Track 3

[3:28]Well, it's interesting, you know, with Reputation Inc. focusing on AEC, it kind of makes one think, you know, that is a little bit of a niche, obviously. And I'm wondering, like, what makes PR different in this space compared to other industries? Because like you say, it is different in a niche.

Track 1

[3:45]Yes. Honestly, you know, AEC firms, in my experience, I found they, well, they tend to be humble, I think, first and foremost. So not always you're lining up for the spotlight folks, but they're also, you know, very technical and risk averse communicators more often than not, which honestly is both a challenge and an opportunity, you know, less about flash and more about thought leadership, trust building and, you know, what we do for our clients. In really showcasing innovation without overselling either. Because I mean, yeah, these are right at the end of the day, often multimillion dollar projects with schedules that are measured in years a lot of times, which really makes establishing that trust and authority critical because again, we're not talking about convincing someone to make a spontaneous purchase while they're doom scrolling, like if you're selling a consumer product. So that's what, yeah. Yeah. And kind of goes back to what we were saying about what I really enjoy about the space is it's a niche that allows us as communicators and PR specialists to go deep and really kind of understand, OK, what are those delivery methods, project types and whatnot, which really ultimately feeds stronger PR campaigns?

Track 3

[5:01]Yeah. Yeah.

Track 2

[5:02]So, you know, we've started the beginning of the conversation thinking about

[5:12]

The Internal Impact of PR

Track 2

[5:06]how a lot of folks don't get the connection between PR and the internal side of a business. So what is it that most firms actually miss about the internal impact of PR?

Track 1

[5:19]I would say my experience, what I see is a lot of times firms, they treat PR as kind of like you mentioned, something for the outside world and the outside world only, which inherently, I mean, is true to some degree in some ways, right? Press releases, we talk about winning awards, showing up in the media, but it definitely can be more than that when it's done with intention, right? I mean, if you think about internal teams, if they're seeing their colleagues or themselves featured or quoted or their work being recognized, it really validates their work and elevates them as an employee. And it really ultimately builds kind of this sense of shared mission, right? The pride and loyalty of the work and the projects you're doing that PR can also, even though it's outward facing, can really foster that internally, especially when it's done consistently, which I think is a big part of that.

[6:17]

Showcasing Innovation Authentically

Track 3

[6:17]Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's interesting too, because I know in, especially in the architecture side, we talk a lot about innovation. That's one of the things we talk about innovation design. And I think you've said before that, you know, PR can really showcase innovation, but it can also showcase, you know, intellectual rigor. And so I'm just wondering if you can maybe help us understand, like, how, how does that play out like in practice? But I think even more important, like how do firms do that without looking like they're putting on a performance?

Track 1

[6:47]Yes, that's a great question. Well, I'll start by saying I work with a lot of architects, engineers, construction folks, and contractors. I like to say that intellectual rigor and innovation are definitely words I associate with the industry, but sometimes people think, oh, like the construction industry, maybe that's not the first thing that comes to mind. But I think that's such a misconception, really, because, you know, the AEC industry really does employ some of the most intelligent people I've met. But like you said, Carl, you know, we're not wanting to come across as inauthentic either and that we're just bragging about our work. And so, yeah, you know, I think those kind of folks make the work we do at Rep Inc. So engaging. But like we said, they're not the first in line to line up to say, yeah, I want to be on a camera. Pick me. So as you probably have experienced, but, you know, just as in-house marketers, you know, have to earn the trust and prove their firm's authority to your buyers, you know, they also need to take a similar approach with their own internal subject matter experts when trying to really glean those insights internally. Right. So, you know, one way I look at that is searching for earned wisdom, right? Stories that are rooted in some actual real experience, which, you know, your folks who are on the ground have and can speak to, right? They're not just buzzwords in a word salad.

Track 1

[8:16]So, but when I say developing that trust, right? Yeah. It means interviewing, you know, those SMEs, talking to those experts, engineers, architects, project managers, whatever they may be, and drawing out their point of view in plain language. That's, I think really the best way to avoid that performative piece of it just by being authentic, right? Aligning your message with actual lived experience. And a lot of times, if we could talk about projects as well, client outcomes too.

Track 3

[8:46]Sure. Sure.

[8:47]

Building Internal Pride

Track 2

[8:48]You, I think you've talked in the past about how you can actually build kind of internal pride through PR and, you know, I think we know about a lot of the external things, media, awards, speaking gigs, all those kinds of tools that we utilize. But what does it look like to actually build that internal pride inside of a firm?

Track 1

[9:11]That's a good question. So, I mean, for example, consider, I don't know, a project spotlight, maybe that becomes the most shared internal email of the month. Or, you know, maybe a senior engineer writes this op-ed and, you know, that gets posted in the break room because it's like, you know, this, this is what we need to be talking about.

Track 1

[9:32]Ultimately, like those moments create moments of, yeah, I'm proud to work here. I'm part of something bigger than myself, especially if we're talking about those who don't always get a voice. They aren't the ones in the boardroom necessarily, but they're the ones doing the hands-on work with clients. And so creating those moments to me is, is kind of how you build that pride. And I can give you, I guess, one example of that. We have a client who is a heavy civil contractor. So I'm specializing, you know, building roads, bridges, all that good stuff. And we've helped integrate our external PR efforts for them into the quarterly employee newsletter that we help them produce that gets shared internally. And so, especially for this company, this is huge because they have a workforce that's split between office and field and they have numerous job sites in numerous regions. And so, in that environment, especially, it can be really easy for those field crews to feel like we're just out here on our site, kind of working in a silo and not necessarily as connected to the larger organization, right? So by kind of giving them that their work a spotlight and then highlighting when we are featuring the work that they're doing and it does get that coverage and closing the loop to say, hey, let's share it with the company about where this is going, you know, giving that spotlight, sharing their knowledge and highlighting that recognition.

Track 1

[11:02]Gives them peer recognition, sure, but it also gives their, you know, in this case, office based counterparts, a greater sense of connection to the work that's actually happening out there in the field. So, yeah, that's I guess that's just one example of it. But I would say that, you know, it's a it's a pride building activity. And aside from morale and retention, of course, this this plays an important role in recruiting as well.

Track 2

[11:28]Yeah.

[11:28]

Attracting Values-Aligned Talent

Track 3

[11:29]Well, you know, speaking of recruiting, we kind of say in our world, we only have two resources to work with. One is a client, but the other half of that is our talent. And that's sometimes really hard to find. And you talk about PR being a way to help attract values aligned talent. And, you know, and sometimes for us, that younger talent is what's what's kind of really hard to find and kind of work with. And so, you know, are there maybe some stories about how that plays into action with with our young professionals and early career people, how we move the needle with PR with them?

Track 1

[12:05]Hmm. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's a challenge, right? I mean, recruiting in this industry is always a challenge, right? And now we've got this shift happening, right? Generational shifts and coming into the workforce. And what do we do here? So as you may have seen, heard, you know, a lot of research shows that younger professionals, they care about purpose, right? Transparency, impact. Speaking of coming across authentically, right? They grew up, this generation that's coming up too, right? Grew up navigating an internet-driven, information-saturated society. So they have relatively good BS detectors, we'll say, most of the time, right? But that goes back to the point of, are you just, is this just a veneer or is this actually, are you telling stories that are true to who you are as a firm? And so, you know, you mentioned, Jerry, some of the more obvious PR wins that can bolster the recruiting efforts, right? Awards, best places to work, things that highlight unique employee benefits at the company, that's really the low-hanging fruit.

Track 1

[13:07]But I also think about, you know, what are the stories that you tell? What are they saying about your company and its point of view ultimately, right? So some of these stories that tend to resonate with these audiences. And again, they're not a monolith, right? Gen Z isn't a monolith. But, you know, stories that focus on community impact, sustainability initiatives, career journey stories, not just the what, but the why. Uh and you know i think a lot of times that's what firms can get wrong in this vein is is kind of just vague value statements that don't really have any proof to them right um right what i what i'm always encouraging clients is like pr should show not tell so yeah show me that who are you let's talk about that.

Track 2

[13:55]Yeah good yeah i love the i love that note about any given generation and Gen Z millennials not being a monolith. It's really easy as marketers to sometimes fall into that trap or as organizational leaders to fall into that trap because we read a book or we heard a podcast or what have you and start to think about an entire generation of people as being the same. And yet we grew up in a generation that we know wasn't all exactly the same.

[14:27]

PR as an Employee Recognition Tool

Track 2

[14:24]And we hated being painted with the same brush often. You know, if we continue on that vein a little bit around employee experience, Is there a way that PR can be part of a employee recognition strategy? And if so, what does that look like when it's done well?

Track 1

[14:41]Sure. Yeah. You know, that you sometimes have to get a little bit, maybe a little more creative there. But I mean, you know, it can look like publicly spotlighting team members when talking about a project, but spotlighting things like, okay, well, how was this innovative? How was there a mentorship element to this story or, you know, leadership on this project? Was there an angle there?

Track 1

[15:02]So, you know, there's ways of looking at that, too. But I would say when you're thinking about those voices in your organization, are you always relying on the same voices for those quotes and insights? Or is your firm encouraging other people to develop those skills? I think that's even just a way, you know, of giving your employees that visibility, even if they're not necessarily the most senior, they are the closest to the work. And two you know when we talk about these projects that we're working on for clients are we telling stories that not just demonstrate yes the successful execution but also the culture and the approach that made that outcome possible so we you know can look at things like media features awards we've talked about even internal newsletters on social right on linkedin i mean recognition in any form sends a message at the very least of, Hey, we see you, we value you. Um, so, you know, we have some clients who will do like a crew of the month recognition if they've got field crews or, you know, we've got one client that, that does commercial interiors. Right. And so they spotlight, we'll do like spotlights for their designers on their LinkedIn account. So it's not just, um.

Track 1

[16:15]Project announcements, hey, we won this contract, but some snapshots into.

Track 1

[16:20]Hey, meet this designer. This is sort of their creative approach. Or here was some of the inspiration behind the design for this project, you know, especially nowadays in this AI world too, that also gives you the double bonus of humanizing your brand, putting faces, you know, to the names and the people doing the work, kind of gives that behind the scenes look at how you work, demonstrates that creativity, authority, and yeah and so that's just like you know one one way that like you could look at doing that but really at the end of the day the the best programs are going to be ones that are proactive and inclusive not not just again spotlighting the the usual suspects that always are coming up time and again in the organization yeah.

Track 3

[17:03]Makes sense i think that's that's great because i think you did hit on the fact that i think especially some of our younger talent you know they are talking about What is their professional growth? What's my path? How do I get there? And trying to show them that. And I think you've talked about, again, like PR, how PR can help somebody's professional growth.

[17:26]

Media Visibility and Career Growth

Track 3

[17:22]And I think some of those examples you gave, you know, kind of the big picture things were great. I'm wondering if there is maybe an example or a story somewhere that, you know, where actual, you know, media visibility was actually used to help somebody build their career from inside the firm. You know, they could actually see that happen.

Track 1

[17:42]Sure. Well, it's always ongoing. So I hope maybe in 10 years from now, I'll have an update on a CEO that started with a media placement. We got him or her. So but one example. Sure. So let's, we have, okay, we have a subject matter expert with one of our client firms. We were connecting with him again, just to learn about a particular project so we can promote an upcoming milestone that we're going to, you know, be completing the project.

Track 1

[18:10]And so as part of that discussion, you know, we began to unpack what's going on. Okay, among the different elements of what made this project successful, there was, you know, the unique delivery method is what made it possible on the short schedule that the owner required for that. And in this case, it was a department, a state agency, a department of transportation, right? And so we saw this as an opportunity to discuss, wait a second, this is really new. And in this case, it was in Florida. It was one of the first such contracts that the state had taken on in that structure, that delivery method. And so we said, well, there may be an opportunity here to leverage this strategy in similar projects. I'm sure there are other agencies, other states, other places that could benefit from this. Can we show that we're thought leaders? Because we put this into practice. We can speak to it. So we pitched that, proposed an article to a trade publication on the topic about strategies for using this delivery method. And it was ultimately accepted, which was great. And for him, it was like, oh, okay, I'm just, you know, talking about what it was, you know, this is just the realities of the project that we did.

Track 1

[19:16]But again, you don't always necessarily think you've got newsworthy stuff when you're the one that close to it. So in addition to getting that, we then leveraged that coverage to then pitch that same gentleman to an industry conference to actually moderate a panel alongside other DOT leaders from other states. And so it was sort of the stepping stone of, okay, experience, media exposure, using that exposure then as, you know, a credibility booster and to say, look, this is how we can present it. Let's pitch this again. Now he was in a room, you know, full of potential clients and not just elevating his professional profile and his career, but at the same time, you know, serving as that relationship building opportunity with those existing and potential clients in the room. So I don't know if that's maybe a perfect example, but it's, there tends to be a domino effect that can happen there. Right. And it's really about giving those emerging leaders a platform to share their expertise. Yes. But also, you know, build, like you were saying, Carl, you should know that personal brand credibility and for their career path, which, I mean, if you do that at the end of the day, it's, it's, it's benefiting both them and right.

Track 3

[20:30]Right. Yeah. Good point.

[20:35]

Common PR Pitfalls

Track 2

[20:31]Yeah, I love the win-win kind of approach to that. When you're thinking about PR as this way of building employee experience, what are some of the common pitfalls that you see firms stumble over when they're trying to connect PR with employee experience?

Track 1

[20:50]Hmm. Pitfalls. Yes. I've seen a few. Um, let's see the, I would say I, the three, there's probably three common mistakes that I see the most in this area. One is honestly, first when, when firms treat PR as an afterthought, you know, it's a, it's a nice to have layer, right. It's, but it's not, it's not connected to our talent or culture strategies or what, you know, they're doing an HR. No, it's over there with marketing. And so that is just ultimately a disservice to the organization, right? Because if the in-house marketer and or if you have a PR partner you're working with, if they're not looped in to project updates, operations meetings, or they're otherwise not encouraged to like communicate or reach out to other departments, that's a huge missed opportunity right there from just getting them plugged in. So that's one.

Track 1

[21:48]Two which is a little similar to that but when i see sometimes firm leadership will have this sort of gatekeeper mentality where you know it's executives or like the marketing leads they get the visibility they're the they're the faces full stop um and a lot of times i've seen some firms be afraid to promote their people publicly in that way or give them that platform for fear of them being poached by competitors or whatnot, which honestly, as you gentlemen know, in today's connected online world, that can be a bit short-sighted, right? I mean, because the question I would consider is, well, if you're not recognizing your people and elevating them, shouldn't you be more worried about them leaving for someplace else that maybe will versus them getting poached? So yes, you want them to do good work for your company and clients, but at the same time they're developing their own individual careers as well and so you can't lose sight of that reality and i did say three third yeah i would say closing the loop probably when you know internal teams don't see the outcomes if there's not you know a feedback loop to positively reinforce that activity then it'll lose momentum right if they're like kind of launched and you're like oh we need your help with all of this and you run off with it and then you know that engineer designer is like, okay, great. I think I helped them. What came of that?

Track 1

[23:13]So if they're never sharing, celebrating, or analyzing the results of that and going back to your people with, hey, this is what came of this, that momentum is going to die. And, You know, honestly, I've seen this firsthand, too. When one of your engineers or architects, particularly maybe one of some of those who are the back of the room folks who aren't going to raise their hand, they start to see the coverage and the attention that some of their peers are receiving and that they're kind of getting this platform and it's opening up doors and they're walking into pitch meetings. And they're like, oh, yeah, actually, I read that. I saw that project. I read that piece. Those other folks, they start to get curious or dare I dare I say, envious sometimes. Right. Which can sometimes push enthusiasm for those PR efforts across the organization. So I'd say, yeah, those are the big three. It's not don't make it an afterthought. It is connected to your other departments and your recruiting and your culture. Don't just gatekeep to a few people to have the mic so to speak and make sure

[24:17]

Leadership's Role in PR

Track 1

[24:15]that you're communicating what's happening with with these opportunities.

Track 3

[24:17]Yeah steven you know it sort of hits me that kind of one of the things we're talking about is what is the role like like what role does leadership play in all of this right because it's kind of setting the tone and i think probably some leaders probably still see pr through that lens of oh it's a marketing or It's a business development tool. And that's kind of what, you know, probably some older guard may say. And so I just curious, like, when you think about leadership, then so what do you say to those skeptics out there? You know, how do you get them to see like, hey, here's the internal value of what this really means?

Track 1

[24:54]Good question. Well, first of all, I'll back up and say, if you're a leader and you're viewing PR as a business development tool, then perhaps you're already ahead of some other leaders already. Right. To even get there, because that's a conversation sometimes we have to have. Right. But but as we've said, right, it it can be so much more than that. My message to those more reluctant leaders is, look, I mean, ultimately, PR is about storytelling. Like you said, Jerry, off the top and perception. Right. It's it's culture shaping. um it validates what the firm values in theory right otherwise you wouldn't be talking about it so um, If you want to recruit better, retain better, build long-term trust, PR is just that vehicle of sharing the realities and your values, right? It has to be a part of that strategy. You know, summertime now, we just had Fourth of July. You know, we have some clients who will do some sort of, you know, yard party or, you know, event for employees. And so I always, you know, that's one of my thoughts to a CEO is what story do you think your employees are telling their friends at a barbecue, right? Oh, what do you do? Tell me about where you work or what have you been working on?

Track 1

[26:14]That shapes your culture, your people, who you're bringing in the door and the kind of work you're getting. Ultimately pr helps shape that narrative and it's like we've said externally internally it ends up being a thread when you leverage it the right way that is flows throughout the organization and ultimately i mean what i you know the bottom line is look if you don't tell your own story someone else will or they'll just take the liberty to to assume who you are and what you do and so do you want to cede that power do you want to kind of be in control of of communicating the truth about who you are and what you guys, you know, what you bring. So I don't know, it's a tough one.

Track 2

[26:53]But yeah, I mean, I think there's, there's a lot of nuance there. And you said something at the very beginning about AEC firms being kind of modest or humble, um, which can, you know, I think what you were just now talking about reveals a

[27:13]

Navigating Humility in Storytelling

Track 2

[27:08]bit of a tension between humility and putting the firm or people in the firm in the spotlight. So what's, what's your advice or how do you coach teams through that that humility tension.

Track 1

[27:19]That's a great question and we run into it a lot honestly, it's a fine line you said like you said it's nuanced right but there there's a difference between ego and earned expertise uh and so we coach teams to think about it through the lens of sharing the win, right? Elevating project teams, not just individuals. And, you know, in AEC, that could include project partners, sometimes subs when appropriate. But it's a.

Track 1

[27:54]No single project is right built by one or designed by one person um and ultimately though as a sort of sidebar right stories you you know you tell should position your client ultimately as the hero right with your guidance as helping them achieve that success there's a way to strike a balance there but remember there's no balance if you don't say anything uh so really it's about like framing that conversation because i know we come across it a lot like oh i don't want to be i know it's not i'm not i'm just little old me but again it's it's making them realize look i appreciate you but this isn't a story just about you mr superintendent or you know mrs project manager or whatever it might be it's it's about look framing these stories as how did our team, solve a challenge it's not look how great we are how did we show up and so i think again there's nuance in navigating that but it ultimately is yeah think about the end goal is it's you're not you're not we're not here to just edify and one person to make them visible it's a team effort and so that's usually how we're trying to remind clients to be thinking about these efforts it's collaborative, just like anything else, you know, with it within your firm.

Track 3

[29:14]Yeah, I think about like our collaborative partners within the firm and marketing leaders kind of pop to my mind, right? And thinking about like to talk to that specific group that might be listening today who say, yeah, I'd love to use PR as a way to strengthen internal culture. I don't want to just drive visibility, but I'm kind of wondering like, where do I start with that? Have you got any, maybe a good sort of springboard for that?

[29:40]

Starting Small with Internal PR

Track 1

[29:40]Ooh, where to start? Well, I always say start small. And I would say, I mean, if it truly is something that you're kind of just now getting your feet wet with, start internally to kind of trial things out, right? Spotlight a team win. Maybe share one of those behind the scenes stories on, you know, the intranet or whatever, you know, internal newsletter that you guys might have. Right um you know publish and meet the team series so that you know other internally at least first there is some of this cross pollination being like hey we're over here this is what we're doing.

Track 1

[30:16]So i mean that's one place there and a few of those kind of like little tactics i guess and it also gives you the chance to get some of those reps and kind of fine-tune who your champions are and how you want to do that before you pivot to externally pitching things out and yeah and i I would say another place to start, honestly, is looking for those internal champions that are already there, not just external campaigns, right? Because there's people in your organization who already understand the value of this and may not need as much convincing. They kind of understand the power of, you know, marketing and PR and storytelling in our space. And so identify those folks and let them boost your efforts and be internal champions for you as well. But those would be my, I think my two things there is, yeah, smart, start small and internal with some of these tactics, but just at a smaller scale and make the company your audience before you make the world your audience.

Track 3

[31:16]Great. Yeah, that's good advice. Yeah.

Track 2

[31:18]I think internal teams sometimes struggle with bandwidth when trying to implement this, which is obviously one of the reasons why firms like yours exist. But when they're trying to think about what channels and formats do I focus

[31:36]

Engaging Internal Audiences

Track 2

[31:32]on, particularly at the start, what do you think are the right places to start? What really resonates particularly with these internal audiences?

Track 1

[31:40]Certainly, you know, team awards, project wins, innovation stories. I mean, it's interesting, too. It's a lot of times folks within their own firm or company may not recognize the level of innovation or work that's happening on some of their projects because, you know, I'm over here and estimating and, you know, I necessarily don't touch anything out there that's happening on the operation side in the field. But I would say the key is delivering those opportunities through accessible formats, right? I mean, where are your employees already paying attention, right? Email, video is more engaging, right? Is there a company intranet that you use or is there an all hands meeting that's an opportunity to kind of just at least share this a little bit? And so, yeah, to your point, bandwidth is always a challenge for sure. But I would say it's ultimately not about volume so much as it is about relevance and visibility. You know, the whole quality over quantity cliche, I mean, applies. But i always say that the you gotta start somewhere and sometimes the hardest that's the hardest part is just doing the thing and getting going even if it's not going to be perfect the first time yeah uh but yeah we love we love to help in-house marketers in that regard too because hey if you're willing to say you know what we know we want to do this

[33:08]

Tying PR to Real Culture

Track 1

[33:04]we're going to give it a shot that's half the battle yeah right yeah yeah.

Track 3

[33:08]One of the things that you just mentioned was the word, you know, relevance. And I think about that we want to make sure that branding is never something that's just on the surface. You know, we want it to have a deeper meaning and to do something more than that, by all means. So when you think about what all we're talking about, then the question is like, okay, well, how do you, how do you make sure that you tie all this back to the real culture? So it really is real and relevant and not something that just, yeah, is on the surface.

Track 1

[33:40]That's a great point, right? Because it's easy to imagine a jaded foreman who's with 30 years of experience in the field saying, okay, you think you understand what we're doing out here. That's cute, right? Right.

Track 1

[33:57]So that's got to be careful because, right. I mean, it can certainly it's a it can be a double edged sword in that way. But I would say, I mean, number one is listen and listen more, especially when we're talking about these internal stories, you know, collaborate with HR and the operations folks, you know, lend in a year to some of the field leadership to make sure that that messaging is aligning with, like you said, Carl, actual employee experience. And it kind of goes back to who are you elevating and making visible to, right? Are you using real employee voices or is it your VP of HR or, you know, your CEO talking in soundbites about how great our work culture is and how our value is built on delivering excellent client service? You know, fill in other other cliche here. Are you using real voices? Are you, you know, authentically? And honestly, if you're not ready to talk about something authentically, don't force it. That is one way to put your foot in your mouth and to really, you know, to telegraph that they're just they're just making that up. So it can be a balancing act for sure, but I think it ultimately comes down to listen, listen, listen, and that feedback loop of check back with the folks and say, hey.

Track 1

[35:19]We kind of shared this update. Did this resonate? And survey your folks on how is it being received? Yeah, but it's a fair question.

Track 3

[35:30]Gotcha. Yeah.

Track 2

[35:31]Yeah. I mean, this has been a great conversation, Stephen. I think the lesson about the dual way that we can think about PR and the value that we can get from it internally and externally is really something I would encourage our listeners to be thinking about. But, you know, as we are approaching the end here and wrapping up, what's the one thing that you hope listeners will take away from this conversation?

[35:58]

Final Thoughts on PR's Value

Track 1

[35:58]Hmm put a bow on it huh uh yeah so yeah like you said it's dual purpose, are you're putting you know your company is putting in a lot of this work on these projects that you're already doing are you getting as much mileage out of that as possible, and when we're talking about pr efforts in the same way the external versus internal, If you're doing that, I mean, there is a way to leverage that internally because it tells a story about your firm and when you're talking about recruitment, retention, talent. So I guess, yeah, in the vein of serving that dual purpose, I mean, I would say the takeaway is maybe PR isn't just about press. And for some of that old guard, Carl, that you mentioned, press isn't just what gets thrown on your driveway, if it still does. You know early in the morning but it's it's about pr is about pride in the work you do in your organization right it's about purpose about your people oh wow those were all three p's i didn't even didn't even try to do that um but yeah pride purpose people and if you treat it as a tool.

Track 1

[37:09]For culture and you actually behave within that framework and not just view it as coverage. Oh, it's just a vanity of getting our name out there. If you see beyond that and what PR can do in terms of that storytelling and what it can do for the organization internally, it could very easily become a strategic advantage. So it's sort of just seeing beyond that and recognizing there's a lot of power in stories because we're humans. And it's just how we function, right? So I don't know if that was a pretty bow, but it was an attempt at one.

[37:44]

Recommended Resources

Track 2

[37:43]That's a perfect bow with three Ps.

Track 3

[37:45]Yeah. Well, now that we've done that, now we're going to ask you the toughest question of the entire afternoon. So here it comes. So, Stephen, what book or podcast would you recommend to our audience? And that's a tough one.

Track 1

[38:04]Let me take a drink and spill my water to think about this because it's such a challenging question to answer yeah for podcasts i would have to say well i'm gonna plug ours right reputation inc's podcast inc sites it's hosted by our founding principal michelle calcote king, and i plug this not just because i think it's great and it's us but i think the audience And listening and your listeners now is who it's really geared towards. AEC and really business-to-business professionals in general looking to learn from industry peers, PR marketing pros. We try to really have just real conversations about, okay, reputation building, content strategy, visibility, social media, where do all these things intersect, especially in complex, expertise-driven industries. I will say in terms of a book, recently we did read as a team Building a Story Brand 2.0, Donald Miller, which I thought was pretty good in terms of being a framework for AEC marketers, business developers, even firm leadership who are... Struggling to clarify their message. So that was another kind of recent read that I thought was pretty good.

Track 2

[39:17]That's great.

[39:20]

Connecting with Reputation Inc.

Track 3

[39:17]Those are, those are two, yeah, those are great things. Thank you.

Track 2

[39:20]I'll write this down. So in, in addition to your own podcast, where can people find you, learn more about Reputation Inc.?

Track 1

[39:27]Yes, well, certainly online, rep-inc.com. You can sign up for our AEC newsletter there as well. Each month we share our latest insights as well as upcoming award opportunities and deadlines. So you can let us do the tracking for you there. We're also in all social media places, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, all that good stuff. So yeah, definitely feel free to reach out and connect and follow along because we love making new friends.

Track 2

[39:51]That's awesome.

Track 3

[39:51]Well, Stephen, we, I mean, we really do appreciate you taking time today. Thank you so much for kind of being on the show. You've shared some great insights. You've given us some great things to think about and some action plans. So I really, really appreciate the fact that you've been here with us today.

Track 1

[40:08]Yeah, it's my pleasure. Yeah, thank you for having me and for letting me come and even make a fool of myself spilling water myself on cameras. Excellent, excellent. A real great time.

[40:22]

Wrapping Up the Episode

Track 2

[40:19]It's been a great conversation, though. We really appreciate your perspective. So that wraps up another episode of The Intangible Brand. If you enjoyed today's conversation, we'd love it if you'd follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. It helps us keep bringing these kinds of insights that we had with Stephen to folks like you.

Track 3

[40:37]And if you happen to be watching on YouTube, just make sure that you like the video and subscribe to our channel so that you don't miss the future episodes that we've got coming your way.

Track 2

[40:47]We'd love to hear what resonated with you. Leave us a review, share your thoughts, drop us a line with, you know, ideas for future topics or guests.

Track 3

[40:55]And, you know, you can always connect with us on LinkedIn or visit theintangiblebrand.com for more resources and info about our show.

Track 2

[41:04]And as always, thanks for listening to The Intangible Brand, where the strongest brands are built on the experiences they create for their clients and their teams.