The Full Circle: Linking Songs with Musicians & Friends

DJ Coxy AKA Matthew Cox Is The Very Special Guest On The Full Circle!

• DC • Season 2 • Episode 5

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0:00 | 1:05:16

Dr Matthew Cox aka DJ Coxy is the very special guest on The Full Circle! We went to medical school together, and having both qualified in 2016, this is legitimately the first time since that we have spoken to each other, almost a decade later.

On the show, Matt talks about fatherhood, and juggling this with work, and how it compares. He also shares his excitement about starting as a consultant in acute medicine and what the job entails. 

He also answers some tough Would You Rather questions takes part in a Buzzfeed quiz where his 2000s Music Opinions apparently reveal what his best personality trait is... did Buzzfeed get it spot on or were they completely off? Try for yourself here: https://www.buzzfeed.com/val3riee/build-a-2000s-playlist-and-well-tell-you-what-you

And, of course, Matt creates his Full Circle, choosing some of his favourite songs that you might have heard on some of your favourite TV shows! Playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5Xj0Kqt03mJ60OiGVLvSKs

Thank you so much to Matt for coming on The Full Circle and thank you for checking out the show and for the support as always!

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SPEAKER_00

The Full Circle.

SPEAKER_01

With D.

SPEAKER_00

I have a very special guest on the Full Circle today, someone who I went to medical school with, and actually, fun fact, the first time we've spoken in a decade. He is an acute medicine doctor and is about to be working as a consultant very soon. His name is Dr. Matt Cox. Boom boom boom boom boom. Hey Matt, how are you?

SPEAKER_01

Hello, I'm good, Dev. Thank you for having me on. It's very nice to catch up and chat for the first time in a decade, and I'm looking forward to being on uh the full circle for the second time, having done it back in uni, so yeah. Looking forward to uh to chatting.

SPEAKER_00

Pleasure. Do you remember what your D do you remember what you called yourself uh when when we did it at uni? Do you remember the name that you chose?

SPEAKER_01

I do because one of my other mates from Uni has mocked me about it ever since. Uh DJ Coxie.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

He'll saved in his phone as DJ Coxie, uh, potentially. So yeah, I've never never been able to forget that.

SPEAKER_00

Do you call yourself DJ Coxie at work?

SPEAKER_01

Uh not regularly, not regularly. No. Just no. I'm trying to impress the new, the new younger doctors with my my hipness.

SPEAKER_00

Oh dear. I mean, it's been it's been a decade. I know a lot has happened in that 10 years. Do you want to let the the listeners know like how you are and and and and what's happened since we last spoke?

SPEAKER_01

Uh yeah, so I mean, I'm as Deb said, I'm a doctor. I've just finished my training as an acute medical doctor, so I'll be starting as a consultant soon, which is very exciting. Well, just haven't, I've got married uh to my lovely wife, Claire, and more recently I've now got a 20-month-old little girl called Aurora who uh is very entertaining. There's probably been some other bits in between, but mostly it's been yeah, work, work, family, and and friends, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Very nice, very nice. You enjoying fatherhood.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely loving it, yeah. It's um incredibly tiring, but very entertaining. Um, having these little people you watch grow up goes incredibly fast. I really thought I'd be so prepped for like for late nights and like not getting much sleep because of like being a doctor and night shifts and long shifts. And turns out no, it's uh the good thing about a set of nights is well, they're quite tiring. They finish and then you get to like laze about for three or four days and recover. It turns out in parenthood, you just have to keep getting up again in the morning. So it's like doing perennial night shifts, but it is no, it's fantastic. I've loved it, and it's um particularly, I think, when you do a career like we do, which I love being a doctor. I'm sure I'm sure you do as well. You get very engaged with it. Um, it's quite nice to have an extra reminder that work isn't the only thing and it's been good for work-life balance.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, for sure. I mean, it's a yeah, I mean, it's a completely different, new, challenging experience, but uh, but a fun one. And like you say, I'm really glad you're you're getting into fatherhood and and and you're enjoying it. It's you mentioned about how you didn't think you were gonna be, you know, you thought actually working as a doctor doing nights would would mean that you'll be okay getting through getting through the night when you're looking after, you know, being a father. But is there anything else that's been a surprise to you being a father?

SPEAKER_01

Uh what have I found? I think one of the things I found surprising is there's you always think about all the firsts, like first time they smile, um, first time they take steps, all those things. I think one of the things I've been surprised with is how many times I've been struck by your lasts. Like my daughter used to always have contact naps, now she doesn't do that. So it's like, oh, that's my last time that she's gonna nap. Just you know, I'm gonna spend an hour sat on the sofa cuddling her while she sleeps. The last time they fit into the first outfit that you, you know, associate with a certain age and things like that. So there's all these little lasts you get as well, which is quite, I don't know, poignant. They're nice little moments. I don't think it's sad particularly, but I didn't expect that. And I think the other thing that has particularly struck me, I'm not an anxious person at all. It's never been a particular thing for me. But when you suddenly have like, I remember this for the pregnancy and the birth, and when she was unwell and we had to go into hospital for a little bit, it's so there's this weird, like, it's very difficult. I think, particularly as a doctor or a healthcare professional, when you're accessing healthcare for other people, you there comes with this whole level of like worry and anxiety where you feel like, you know, normally the hospital is my place, it's my happy place, that's where I do my best work, and suddenly you're there and you're not in charge and you're not in control, and it's an odd feeling. Mostly it's been everything I expected to do and really positive because I mean both of those sound quite sad things, but those have been the things that have surprised me. But it's been it's incredible. It's it's uh it's a joy to watch her run around and come out with new words and tell me to sit the other day. She told me to just sit down in the road. She'd got fed up with walking, so she's just like, well, sit sit here? Probably not.

SPEAKER_00

Well, they always say, I mean, I know I know you weren't a patient, but I remember someone, someone, I think, I think I remember some physio and someone and the physio was like, Yeah, doctors are the worst, they're the worst kind of patients. I don't know, maybe maybe it's to do with that. Maybe it's to do with the fact that, like you say, it's that not having that control of or or or used to being on that side, I guess. Maybe.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I think I think it's part of it. I was also a nightmare in terms of I don't tell anyone I'm a doctor and just ask questions that sort of imply I might know more than I've let on.

SPEAKER_00

You don't tell people. I mean, that's an interesting one. So that's a that's a debate in itself. I mean, this is beyond the scope of this show, but I know some people, some people will say it straight away. And I I I'm I'm one of those that I'll only say if they ask me what you do. Yeah. But some people will say it straight away, just to be like, hey, just to let you know I am a doctor, or or you know, I work in healthcare because I want to make that very clear. But uh, yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I try not to, because I don't know what you feel when people do that to you when you've been working. But you know, I remember having to do a cannula on someone and their mum revealed themselves to be a very senior consultant, and I've never been more nervous in my life. Um, so I tend not to tell people because I think it makes them act differently. Yes. I will reveal it if I'm asked or if it becomes relevant for some other reason.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, I that yeah, when I was when I was first year, when I was an FI1, um, I had to do a cannula on someone who who was a doctor. And yes, I was uh I was very, very nervous. The most I'd ever been for anything. And and but the word but the word but the but the hardest part was was they were telling me, yeah, yeah, yeah, go for this vein, go for this one. And I'm just like, oh, like seriously, I was like, oh please, please don't coach me through this. Thankfully, thankfully it was okay, but I I don't think I ever felt so nervous about anything. And you know, I mean this you know, this is coming in a specialty in a psychiatry where where where it can be quite anxiety provoking. I think that even that FY1 moment, I still would say that's the most nerve-wracking thing in my career.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, particularly if they're telling you where to go, you're like, well, I can't mess up now.

SPEAKER_00

I know, that's the bit, that's the bit. That really is the bit. Right. You have created a full circle, your second full circle since since the last time we did it, I've got the date 21st of February 2015. So it's been 11 years since that time we did it. Is there any like theme or any any lots of sort of songs that you've chosen for the full circle before we before we go into it?

SPEAKER_01

So, yeah, you're you're obviously very into your music and you go to gigs all the time and stuff like that. And I'm I would say that I probably have quite an embarrassing taste in music, and I've never been massively into festivals and gigs and things like that. I do really like music, and I get a lot of my music from the TV shows and films that I watch, and I don't for whatever reason that's you know, songs will stick to me. So I thought I'd be really clever and I'd pick songs that are in TV shows, and then I'll link each one that they're you know, they're in this show and another one, and it would go around like that. And I thought it'd be really easy, and particularly, you know, immediately I'm thinking of this, I thought I've got this. This is gonna take like five minutes to plan. And the first song that came to mind is uh is my first song, which is uh The fray How to Save a Life, um, which is in basically every TV show ever. I've particularly picked it here for being in Grey's Anatomy, um, which I recently started watching and love. I like all medical dramas, but I don't know why I'd not watch Grey's Anatomy for so long. And it's in this fantastic episode about losing patience and superstitions and things like that, which I find fascinating as a doctor. But yeah, so that that's my first song, House Save a Life, The Fray. It's also in like scrubs and it's been in basically everything. It all got harder from here, where I realised that not every song is in most TV shows.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah. You've only just recently got into Grey's Anatomy. Isn't there like 20, almost 20 seasons I've or not? There are indeed. I'm on like season four. Okay, so you're at least I mean it's good, it's good. Start uh start late, and then you've got just so much, so much more TV to watch. You know, it's quite quite good. None of that, none of that waiting around for next Thursday. Exactly. Excellent. The fray, How to Save a Life. I I I love that song. The first song on the full circle. That album, oh my goodness, the album titles got out of my head. Is it called How to Save a Life? I can't remember. But that album is so good. Have you listened to the album?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, but not recently though, but yes, I I remember particularly, I think that that must have come out while we were still at school. Uh particularly when I was at school, that was sort of my my genre of music was sort of I would describe as like mopey indie rock. And yeah, I just I remember like being at parties and listening to that or having your headphones in when you're moping about something at school. Yeah, it's a great album. And a song that is in everything, like it it's it's good. It's a great song, and that's why it's in multiple medical dramas and other things being in very poignant, sad moments.

SPEAKER_00

It's good. Definitely. And I think I think it turned 20 years old last year because they did a 20th, they did some 20th anniversary shows, but I couldn't make it. So I was like, but really I'm gonna iron about everything to go. But I didn't realise, and obviously it's one of those, another debate, but I think they've got a different lead singer now. Okay. And I don't know, that's always a bit tough, isn't it, when they change their vocalists. It's just gonna sound different, I guess.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's really tough if it's a if it's something you're going to see for a nostalgia, because I think that's why I'd want to go and see, you know, the fray or like the killers, the fraternity, all those those bands you listen to when you were at school that you have very fond memories of. If you go and see them and they're, you know, and and it's a different person doing it, I don't think it has the same feeling. But equally, the the band is still the band. I don't know, it's they and they didn't say you know, 20, 30 years on which what band does sound the same, who's not changed and had their voice challenged in that time.

SPEAKER_00

No, that's a very fair point. Right. I want to hear a link. You know, you said that you found it a challenge to to link the songs together. So what is the second song and how does it link from the fray how to save a life?

SPEAKER_01

The uh how to save a life fray is in Grey's Anatomy. The next song is also a song from that's in an episode of Grey's Anatomy. It's Hallelujah, which has numerous covers. I've picked the Jeff Buckley one as the one we'll have uh for the playlist. Um, I think the one in the Grey's Anatomy one is actually a cover up, a cover by Alicia Keys. And the linking in is that it's also in House MD, which is probably my one of one of the best medical dramas, not the best, one of the best. Um, and that's in a fantastic episode where they look after a death row inmate who's played by LL Cool Joe. They have these debates about they're saving this guy's life so he can go back onto death row, he's about to be executed. So it's yeah, so classic, like ridiculous medicine and ridiculous drama of house, but it's uh very entertaining. So, yeah, so the link for each one will be that they're in both of the shows, and we'll we'll go around and meander through a few other TV shows. I did realise as I did this that most of the songs that I seem to be able to find that were in multiple shows are relatively like dour and sad. So it's gonna be quite a morose playlist for people. But maybe that's you know, that's what I liked when I was 17, and maybe that's what people like now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, exactly. Jeff Buckley, hallelujah, the second song on the full circle. And I funnily enough, that is actually what I'm watching again. I'm re-watching house at the moment. I absolutely love house. Now, here's here's something I I actually don't watch many medical dramas, if any. In fact, House is the only one I watch, but there's just something about that one that I that I really like. I try not to watch medical dramas because or medical TV shows in general, because I don't know. I just feel like I work in medicine, so let's not watch medicine. That's just my feeling. But but as I was thinking about this, I think at the moment we're we're watching Scrubs because that's come back on on Disney, which is which is great. Like that's that's so good. And we're watching this other medical show. I think I'm not watching it this one, but my my my partner, she's watching oh my goodness, it's this one that's everyone's raving about. Is it the pit?

SPEAKER_01

The pit on yeah, I've not seen it yet.

SPEAKER_00

It's meant to be very good. Yeah, and then another one that Abby and I are watching together is called Saint Dennis Medical. That's on iPlayer, and we I only watched it on a plane because we were just flying when we went on our last holiday, it was just on on the plane. I was like, oh, it's actually quite funny. So there's me going on about how I hardly watch any medical shows, and there's like, well, I'm watching three on the go right now. But I want to know, you said that House is one of the best medical shows, but not the best. So what's the best one?

SPEAKER_01

So I I think there's two that I think come up as the best for me. One of them, which was quite recent, and I loathe to say it because I don't like his books, but is um This Is Gonna Hurt, which was the based on the Adam Kay book. And I don't know if you watched that, that came out probably three or four years ago now, but was a fantastic representation of some of the challenges of working in the NHS and just brilliantly acted. Um, I think it was Ben Wishore who is the main character, and there was someone else who played a one of his junior doctors called Shroti, who was a phenomenal as well. But my favourite is a um a TV show from about the early 2000s called Bodies, which was on BBC, and it's by I can't remember his name, the guy who did Line of Duty, who it was a doctor and has written a couple of he also did one from the 90s called Cardiac Arrest, which is a bit more like sketch showy, I think. Um, but bodies is this fantastic TV series about medicine, and it's it's a lot of it's about medical errors and the impact of that on patients and staff. And that's one of my like interests as a doctor, alongside doing acute medicine. I have an interest in sort of leadership and and in clinical governance and medical errors and stuff like that. And just this show, I remember it was dreadfully timed because I watched it after a set of night, like between night shifts, uh, which is obviously, you know, you often leave the hospital worried about the patients you've treated. But it's just fantastic. It was very, very well done, pretty realistic, and for me, just touched on lots of the themes that I find interesting and challenging about the work we do. I think that's why I like medical dramas. I think it I like a good cry at a TV show. I'm not afraid to say that. Um, and I think a lot of those topics for me, I don't maybe it's one of the ways I process the work we do, but yeah, bodies for me is if check it out, it's it's fantastic. I think you can still get it all on my player.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I'll have a look at it. Yeah, okay. I've I've I've not heard I must admit I've not heard of bodies, but I'll I'll I'll I'll definitely I'll definitely have it on the list. And this is gonna hurt, yeah. I've read the books. I interesting. I don't know. Have you ever met Adam Kay? I've I've heard mixed things. So I I I don't know, like obviously, obviously, uh a lot of people obviously find him hilarious. His books are great, and but apparently um someone I know said that they're someone they know because they work in the TV world. Apparently he was apparently really rude. I don't know, I'm not gonna I don't want to spread anything, but apparently they apparently they were really rude. Apparently, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I was being careful because I don't want to uh slander him on I I really don't like his books because I think I d I think it annoys me because he clearly they're not all he play he portrays it and it's I'm sure people do this in all sorts of comedy as all stories about him. He worked for less time than either of us has been a doctor for. He's got about he had he did a whole book of Christmas stories. Like it's not feasible that he's had that many entertaining medical stories at work, and that just irritates me, which is probably my thing, not his. I have also heard some people who haven't found him the best person to speak to. And I think thinking of his stories from within a medical context, they come across as funny. I do think sometimes that perhaps they may come across the wrong way, and I think you have to be really careful with stories you share from work anyway. But I think, and I'm sure he changes them to make them publishable and all those things. But I think particularly with the field he works in and all the stuff that's going on in maternity stuff at the moment, I'm not sure all of it in retrospect comes across as well as it should. So if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I know what you mean. I haven't I mean it's been a few years since I've read them, but the only one that that springs to my mind, and I'm only saying, like, because we've you know this is from uh someone that's uh works in the profession, not you know, not looking in about the patient stories. But have is it is this possible? Where I think he said that he was meant to be working Christmas Day, and on the day he came in, and then someone else came in and said to him, Oh no, I'm gonna work your shift now, you go. And I'm like, Did that actually really happen? Does do people actually do that? Do people like come in on Christmas Day without even tallying the person that's working it and then be like, Yeah, off you go? I don't know, it just felt a little bit true.

SPEAKER_01

But I don't know. I think that's how I feel reading a lot of the stories, basically, is that this that didn't happen. That didn't allone came in on Christmas Day to send you home. They might have offered to swap with you.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's what I think probably happened. He probably got a swap, but then portrayed it as if it happened on the day itself. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

And it yeah, and I'm and I as I said, I'm sure that is normal in, you know, I'm all comedians, I'm sure, like adapt their stories to make them funnier and what and more dramatic, but it just irritates me. So I don't like his books. But being a doctor, I don't know if you've had this, I get bought a lot of like not recently because he's not published anything, but previously I would get bought his books for like Christmas because people know I quite like reading. And then and then you end up with this selection of books for someone you don't actually like.

SPEAKER_00

So actually, yeah, so actually, someone comes in, someone comes in and seals all the Adam Kay books. Oh, big fan, big fan, I see. Yeah, love it. But the show was excellent and was a really good display of what hospital working can be like. And just to add, as Adam Kaye does, uh Adam Kay, if you're somehow listening to this or watching this, I don't think you will be, but if you are, what we all just said was a joke. We're massive fans of yours, and we'd love to meet you sometime. You're welcome on the show. Thanks. I I also wanted to bring up something, and I don't know if you remember, because I must admit, I didn't remember we did this. But on the last show, we did we actually did a food challenge.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, we were meant to do a different food challenge, but I think I think it was probably my fault it didn't get organized. And we drank spicy water from water bottles.

SPEAKER_00

Is that right? That's right, that's right. I um it must have been so traumatizing I decided to decided to just pretend it never happened. What were we supposed to do?

SPEAKER_01

I think we were supposed to do like a hot wing challenge or something like that.

SPEAKER_00

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But I suspect I didn't organise it and it therefore didn't happen.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean it's it's it's it's a shame that we're uh that that that we're doing this virtually because I would have said let's do it now. But let's get the water bottles back, yeah, yeah. Or let's let's order some hot wings and let's just do it. Yeah. Maybe maybe maybe maybe we'll have to do it, do an in-person one. I mean, uh I don't I think food challenges. I actually think that was you that suggested doing food challenges on the on on the show. I think you're the one that mentioned it, and I think it was it was a positive and a negative, I think. A positive perhaps for people viewing it and a negative for you having to do them. Exactly. Exactly. Have you uh me and Day uh I don't know, you do you remember David Desai? He he's also just come on, but we actually recreated the the chili challenge again, which uh again just didn't go down, didn't go well, didn't go well at all. No, no, we had bird bird eye chilies and it just just terrible. So I'm glad that we're just having a civil conversation and we're not doing a food challenge. But if we were to do a food challenge, if I'm gonna get you back on the show, what would it be? Because I'll make sure we do it next time.

SPEAKER_01

So I think I'm I was very food phobic when I was young, and now I like most foods, but I don't do well with like gross food. So I think for me it would have to be something like yeah, a hot wing challenge, or I don't know what else. How many chicken I'm you know, how many McNuggets can you eat? I reckon I could give that a good go in a in an eating contest.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. I lost a friendship because I did chicken hearts once. You lost a friend? Yeah, I lost a friendship because they they so they're vegetarian and they said that apparently I was being really inhumane doing a chicken heart challenge. I mean, the argument is is that I was using all of the chicken. Like, if you're gonna be like pedantic about it, but that could be a challenge. We could do a chicken heart challenge. How many chicken hearts can we? have in a minute. Are they nice? Uh they were tough. It's like, oh yeah. Yeah, give it a go. Give it a go. Might lose some friendships though.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but I think the friendships you lose over eating meat are probably ones that weren't very firm in the starting point. Um if you can't survive me eating a chicken heart we weren't truly we weren't truly friends.

SPEAKER_00

It's not like it's not like we've just like you know killed a chicken pulled his heart out.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. No if we yeah if you'd killed all the chickens and then done it yourself, that would probably be inhumane. But these ones were gone already. You know, someone had to eat those chicken hearts. It's good that they weren't wasted.

SPEAKER_00

That's exactly the point. And obviously I'd rather we're in a world where you know these you know if if if people if if everyone didn't eat meat then okay fair enough. But it it we we do live in a world where we do eat meat. I was reading actually that people think in fifty years time that's gonna be the thing that people are going to be like how did people ever eat to do that? Do you think that's true?

SPEAKER_01

I think it's possible isn't it because there's lots of things that people think were normal that aren't anymore. But I also struggle to see 50 years isn't that long to fully get rid of everyone who eats meat. You know? And there's lots of places that aren't maybe in one maybe in some very left leaning countries. But I suspect if you went globally that's quite unlikely to be achieved. People like meat it's very tasty.

SPEAKER_00

Probably should whatsoever miss that probably should treat animals better. Probably yeah probably should yeah yeah yeah oh my goodness it's yeah this isn't gonna work we've criticized Adam Kay and now we're gonna have the vegetarianslash vegan community after it as well so who should have next let's just move on to the next song I think that's probably the safest thing to do how does how does Jeff Buckley hallelujah link to the next song next song so another one that features in House MD.

SPEAKER_01

This is probably my favorite song on the list and is one that that I really do like it's a song called Passing Afternoon by Iron and Wine. It's very random I doubt it's but it's um it features in I think it's the season five House finale I think it's season five which is very sad beautiful episode um and it's right at the end it's all over the closing montage as things wrap up and you know that that for me is sort of where I I don't know it's that association of the song with what's happening into the characters and things like that. It's a really beautiful poignant song I really love it. And the the so that's from linking house to house and then it's also in um a Ricky Gervais series called Afterlife which I don't know if you've watched watched a couple of episodes you probably need to get into a little bit more. Yeah. Which was all about it's similar I mean there's a bit of a theme of this of everything I've picked but it's sort of another one that's about grief and processing grief and how life carries on. So yeah that's that's the the link there but it's that's my favourite song on this list actually it's a really beautiful song good to sit and reflect to. Very nice Iron and Wine Passing Afternoon the third song on the full circle right let's do some would you rather would you rather work as a GP or as a psychiatrist I would rather work as a GP than a psychiatrist. And that's I know that's um a dagger to the heart I'm sorry. The reason being I don't think I'd be very good at either to be honest um I'm much more happy in the sort of recus bit of of AE than I am in in the community bit. But general medicine is my thing. So the reason I ended up doing acute medicine is because I like I I really love my job. I really love a bit of everything. And GP is is sort of quite like acute medicine but in the community. So I think I'd be a better GP than I would psychiatrist. Yeah and it would be it'd be a disservice to my patients for me to pick to try and be a psychiatrist because it's just not the bit of medicine I'm good at. Although we do see a lot of you know patients struggling with mental health in acute medicine I just do a different bit of bit of different bit of helping them I I would ask you the question back but I think the answer will hopefully be psychiatry or you've got to retrain.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah I was gonna say if I say GP something's gone wrong something's gone wrong especially like less than a year. No that's fair. I wondered I wondered if GP would be answered. I was just curious. I think both I think your job your job is so difficult. I think I think it's interesting isn't it thinking of it from an external so you you absolutely love your job you know it's so obvious how much you enjoy your job how much you love being you know acute medical doctor and obviously being the medreg and now going to be a consultant. It's it's it's clearly your call in I think for a lot of people that would be scary worrying um anxiety provoking um making those decisions there and then I think GP a lot of people find that job a lot I think I think the public really have a dare I say it not the best understanding of it. I mean 10 minutes seeing a patient having to make a decision there and then it's it's it's not as easy as as as as I think they seem to think and they always seem to think that they're not doing a job. I think they don't realise what's going on behind the scenes you know all these investigation stuff all these referrals all the check in the bloods all these prescriptions etc I don't think they realise how how tough it is to be a GP I think I would I would find I would find that just the the pressure of that that's a different kind of pressure. And I get so many people telling me that they that they just couldn't understand why I would do psychiatry why I could do something like dealing with these sorts of cases and patients and dealing and and and and and doing those sorts of treating those th those sorts of conditions. The reason I chose those two and and obviously thinking about your acute medicine I think all three are sort of looked at differently based on who it is you're talking to and I wondered and I got and I and I wondered if GP would be more preferable to psychiatry because because I guess it is closer. You know not not not exactly but like you know it's it's there's you know like more general as you say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's got more in common. I think it's one of the things I think is fantastic about a career in medicine and I know that's probably a controversial thing at the moment because there's all sorts of challenges training to be a doctor at the moment but you know I think I'm pretty good at what I do. I think I'm a good acute medical doctor. I'd be a rubbish psychiatrist I'd be an appalling surgeon and I probably wouldn't enjoy those jobs but you know I've got fantastic friends you know who are psychiatrists who are GPs who are surgeons and it's such a varied career like we might all do the same thing and you know acute medicine is sort of similar to GP. I said I you know I'm not an anxious person acute medicine is a lot about risk to risk decision making and what can be managed in hospital what can be investigated out of hospital who can go home who can't and I love doing that in the context of where I do it. GP is doing that with less information less time less resources and I think I'd find that way scarier than doing what I do. But there's other people who can't imagine being medreg and think that would be really scary job to do and I absolutely love being medreg. It's my I would say doing the medical take has been for many years my sort of like medical happy place of you know this is where I feel like I'm in my groove I feel like I'm contributing really well I feel like I know what I'm doing I feel like I'm helping people other people would hate that. Put me in to take an appendix out no thank you. And I think that's fantastic about medicine. Like we did the same training at university but nine and a half years down the line I could not go and do your job. I don't think you could go and do my job and that's that's fantastic. We've you know there's so much within that you do this core bit of knowledge and language that lets us interact as professionals but you have a fantastic set of skills about how to manage psychosis and how to guide people through depression and treat you know eating disorders. I've got a set of knowledge for how you treat medical emergencies in hospital. Abby your partner has this fantastic skill set for how to manage chronic disease and knowing which acute illnesses need to go to hospital, which ones cheek about you know that we've all got these these little spheres of knowledge and I think that's really exciting thing about it. Try and get the the more you know things are quite difficult for newly qualified doctors at the moment but I try and pass on this enthusiasm to them that actually there is still a great career ahead of you even if things are a bit dicey at the moment.

SPEAKER_00

I love it I love it I love seeing the passion there. You know so it it could be so easy for us at this stage to be like you know like it's just a job it's just but to just see that it's is incredible. And I feel the same way I love psychiatry. I'm so glad I've got into it obviously there are some systemic issues as we know but but we need people like yourselves you know to make people who have just qualified feel happier feel you know improve the morale let me let me change it then and I and I I'm curious would you okay would you rather then work as a GP or work in AE?

SPEAKER_01

That's difficult because I've there's I'd probably rather work in A just because again I think it's a lot of the there's a big overlap with what I do at the moment and again it's a little bit more the acute bit is you know that starting point of severe illness is the bit I really like. I I really loved AE when I did it as a doctor. I was gutted I was at St George's and they you know they used to film that TV show 24 hours in AE. So they filmed a whole season of it while I was there on my four month rotation. I wore a microphone at one point I am not even in the background of a single episode. I'm I was so gutted. Yeah I didn't even get in the background shot I watched a whole season of it like am I in this am I in no not in a single bit. Oh wow so would the camera go in like if you're thinking patient would they so they they had it set up so there's they set out loads of those fixed cameras those sort of wide angle ones in in various like you know recess beds one and two have it certain rooms have it and then they have some camera crews I think who go around and do little filming bits with people and the staff wear microphones like certain people on shift will have a microphone on. I suspect they found nothing I said of value or interest to put onto TV um but I thought I'd at least make it into a background shot but no I love by you anyway I've I've digressed. I loved my time in AE. There's bits of it I'd again be absolutely rubbish at like broken bones and all of those bits trauma stuff probably not my not my forte at the moment but maybe if I did it I'd get better at it. I think probably AE. I just think that there I have a lot of respect for what GPs do. I think I would struggle with they're under so much pressure now from like volume and time that you can't really do the job a GP would do like you know the GP who knows all their patients and sees the same person through and all that. I think that would be so rewarding to do. And again they do have that fantastic general medical knowledge of even wider than mine you know they've got they need to have OBS and Giny knowledge and they need to know about peeds and they need all these different bits but it's so hard to do and I don't know how Abby finds this of you know that you just don't get to see people consistently to build up that relationship and that's such a a key part of it I think yeah I think at her practice because this I don't think there's like any locums I think the patients in general do see the same GP so that's quite a good thing.

SPEAKER_00

But as you but I think the time it's just the time I think that's that's the hardest bit even and and there are some where I think it's just like what what do I do it's this is this is this is just too too tricky. I I I yeah I do I do think they they really I think the time and just the pressures associated with that in particular really really impact it. I think for me A and E so I did AE and GP so I did both those jobs and I think A and E I I couldn't do the the the rotor not anymore like that rotor is just brutal whereas GP yeah it's nine to I mean it's basically nine to seven like if you're being honest like yeah um and that's yeah and again you lose your evenings I don't know it's tricky it's a tricky one I think A and E really helped me so I chose not to do a psychiatric job in my first two years because I knew I want to do psych. I think A and E really allowed me to if I have like a little bad feeling about something like my intuition it really helped with that and I still get it in psych like if someone you're just like oh I'm just not sure it doesn't happen very often but if when it does happen you're like oh I need seriously like whenever whenever I'm sure you probably get that as well as a Med Reg, you know I call it the eyeball test of just that you there's no number or thing that's going wrong but you just know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I think you build that you that is a a skill you build up over time and experience in whatever your field is. I've forgotten about the how brutal the A and E rotor is yeah that that that is a big a big barrier to uh to doing it. Um I the you said yeah A and E for me before I entered my medical training it was my last job as a foundation year two doctor so before you start specialising for anyone who's listening and isn't uh isn't involved in healthcare and it was the best prep I had for being a medical SHO and trainee because you just see that it's the volume like so much of medicine is seeing enough people that you know when to worry and when not to and yeah you build up that intuition that you talked about.

SPEAKER_00

I really enjoyed the job but yes I remember having headaches like every day and being like well maybe I'm ill what's wrong and then I was like oh it's because I'm really tired it's brutal I remember that and you're right because it is about the more you see the better you get there's just it's just it's just straight it's just as straightforward as that because I think in London in psychiatry so London so some people seem to have this association that psychiatry is oh it's super chill you don't do anything blah blah blah and actually in London and I don't know what it's like where you where you are but in London it is it is the opposite like I'm working in in like AE's that are three of the busiest A and E's in in in in the whole country and I think it's yeah it's a bit of a misnomer but I think what I found interesting what's what colleagues have told me is because they got we all go on like these courses together and things like that is actually people who might work in maybe like rural areas where maybe it's not as prevalent like mental health etc mate like mental illness etc their knowledge is actually a little bit limited. And I'm not saying that in a bad way it's just more comparing it to to to to maybe what it's like when you're in an area where you're just seeing it so consistently making decisions so consistently having to work and just dealing with it. And I think you're right.

SPEAKER_01

I think it is just that exposure and the more exposure you get funnily enough the easier it gets yeah 100% and yes I don't know I share my the uh the psychiatry trainees I know from where I work and you know it is brutal. Like you often cover like three or four hospitals out of hours and you've got to drive to various places and do you know it's it's not a um there's no chill sp this is why one of my pet peeves at work and I don't know if this happens to you is when people inform me that they're busy when I call them I'm very busy. So am I we're all busy every job in healthcare is busy like there isn't a bit of the NHS broadly which is chilled and quiet you know even the rural ones they're normally covering a huge area or whatever there's there's it comes with its own challenges. But yeah that that volume is is so important. It's also one of the things I think with is you know clinical examination in this country you know picking up funny heart sounds and things like that because we've got so much better at treating disease we're so much worse at that than someone who's trained in another country where the healthcare system maybe hasn't got a lot of that preventative stuff set up because if you see all of that disease and pathology more frequently you'll be better at it. And it's it's an it's an interesting thing of you know as we get better with certain types of surgery for example and get really good at robotic and uh laparoscopic procedures which are minimally invasive, we've got surgeons who are less and less skilled as they come through at doing open surgery when it's needed. There's this weird balance of of things you do in healthcare can suddenly make some of the stuff that you do skill wise harder to obtain which is an interesting training challenge to overcome.

SPEAKER_00

Do you think I mean that's what you're saying there just makes me think about this do you what do you think the role is of AI if any in the medical in this in the medical field?

SPEAKER_01

I'm sure that I'm not tech tech tech stuff is not my strong point. I'm older than my years in that way. AI will clearly have some roles and there's things like in radiology using AI to assess whether a lesion is bigger from a scan six months ago to now it's better than the human eye it's a computer program it can do that. In terms of the sort of work that I do there's this really I was reading some stuff about this recently so like LLMs whatever they're called are really good at vignettes and like you know oh they would they would do better than either of us did in our UCL medical finals because that's a set vignette with a set answer. When you then put those same models to perform an interaction with a patient where they take a history they're rubbish because there's a bit of medicine and it's the human bit they can't develop an eyeball test they can't develop intuition they can't adjust to when the story doesn't quite add up so you ask that extra question do you know what I mean? And the the work you do, psychiatry is even less based on specific you know that there isn't a one right drug or answer to psychiatry. A lot of it is you know the medical the medicines is one part of it I apologize because this will be an absolute butchery of what you do. The other part of it is the talking and the the coping mechanisms and the therapy stuff. AI can't do that. It may be able to in the future when it gets significantly more advanced but it can't do a lot of those things. So I think it really frustrates me when you get like where's streeting and people in HS England talking about upgrading us to AI and all of these things and how AI is going to adjust what we do at the front door because it's not and actually my big worry would be we start relying on that more and more for the cognitive bit and then what you end up with is a set of doctors who can't do the the the one bit of their job they need to do. You know practical skills wise for example I'm really good at lumbar punctures. I do loads of them I'm not as good as the anaetitists I'm probably better than most of the other medical trainees who don't do acute medicine on urology because I do loads of them compared with if you're a geriatrician. Anyone can probably be trained to do that practical task though. And if they do it enough they'll get it. The bit that I'm really good at is the thinking part of my job and AI just can't do that. But if you get AI in early so that people don't learn to do that bit, they won't learn it. And it it I I I worry for a vicious circle but I do think there are ways it can be applied.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah no I think I think that's that's that's very well put I think in in psychiatry I think it's basically just not going to be possible unless which is what we've had we've had some trials with helping us with our like assessment letters or clinic letters and I think pros and cons. Pros are it does gather the information really well and it summarizes it really well. The con is and obviously this is not a surprise it sounds like it's written by a robot and you can't really have psychiatric letters written in that way.

SPEAKER_01

And I think and I think this is admin stuff is where I think AI has a massive role to play particularly in the the the banal and the generic like you know my wife's a teacher primary school teacher so there's a great role for it I think in plea this is a letter for your kit list for this trip. You know blah da done hundred letters go out sorted some teachers use it for their like reports. Now to me that's like awful because the a report from your teacher should be a really personal take on how your child's doing and it's the same with a psychiatry letter or you know clinic letter depending on what it is you know if it's a really mundane thing sure but actually with psychiatry it's a really personal thing.

SPEAKER_00

You don't want your letter to clearly have been written by Chat GPT and you can always tell you can you can you see I see it so much now on social media how much stuff is just written by AI. And it just and but people yeah but Facebook like these photos and these posts people seem to fall for it.

SPEAKER_01

People do and it it it it it's becoming really hard to read some stuff because it's there's this way that AI like presents information and talks and it it becomes quite jarring. So if you're on Instagram or Twitter or X or whatever it's called now you see this all the time of like and it is there's so much information that goes out where people have clearly just got Chat GPT to write something for them split it into 20 pages and post it out and yeah it but people do seem to fall for it and I'm not sure it's a positive I don't I'm like I worry about how people kids are you know it's obviously a great adjunct to writing an essay but if people lose those abilities to write essays they're sort of losing the skills that school and uni's meant to teach you. So I don't I I just sound old and boring basically but I worry about how you if we use it too much we're just taking away the things that the humanity of things and the and things that people should learn to do.

SPEAKER_00

Oh 100% 100% we could talk about AI I could talk about AI for hours but I wanna I want to ask you another would you rather question right would you Rather, this is a bit morbid, so apologies. Would you rather deal with a medical emergency on a plane or on the tube?

SPEAKER_01

On the tube, I think. Because on a plane, I have this thought all the time of what I do in an emergency. I thankfully never had to go to anything. In fact, the one time I did try to, the police told me to go away. I think on a tube, at least you can sort of get to a station, get off, and paramedics can come quite quickly to help you and do stuff. Because I had a so it's still morbid. I had a cardiac arrest called go out to our car park. And it was amazing how, even being that little bit out of the comfort zone of the patient on a bed, the equipment available, how much less you can do and how much less you feel comfortable doing. And there's a reason we train people in pre-hospital medicine, you know, the helymed doctors in their horrible orange scrubs and um paramedics, you know, that they have a skill set that is different and that helps them do that. So I think on a plane, I would feel a lot of pressure. But on a plane, you do potentially get a load of air miles out of it. So maybe that's uh a bonus for and do you know I'd feel awful if I, at least on a tube, you sort of just hold people at, you know, Camden Town and they can walk to uh they can walk up to they can walk down to uh chalk farm or whatever. If you land the plane somewhere and you've ruined 90 people's holidays and you were wrong, it wasn't a heart attack, it was it was just indigestion. Yeah. Kind of pressure. I don't want that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I was about to say, yeah, you they ask you, don't they? They ask you, do we need to divert the plane? I think that's what they that's what they have to ask, or if you're like, no, no, no, we can carry on. That is a big decision to make.

SPEAKER_01

So I think a train would be more, a tube would be more manageable for me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Both both it depends like for me, if like, let's say like the tube, I you know, it's absolutely congested and it can't go to the station. It can't go to the station, it's just stuck. That would j that would also be a bit pretty like anxiety provoking in this in the same way a plane would be. I mean, for me, if they oh it'd be not embarrassed.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I can, I am like, you know, ILS trained and all that sort of stuff, but it would be a bit like, oh man, like you very quickly realize with these things that actually, unless you're an AE doctor, you probably don't have a lot of the skill, you know, if anyone's injured themselves, I'm about as good at putting a bandage on as the next person.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. I recently, very recently, I was walking back home from work and um a cyclist on ran uh hit a pedestrian. They were crossing the road. It was a green man, and it was and the cyclists are just very unfortunate, just hit the well, I'm not unfortunate, shouldn't have done it, but hit hit the hit the hit the pedestrian. And I was the first one there, and I just had to run. And I was like, Are you both okay? And they were like, Yeah, and I was like, Yeah, get you know, check in, get up, get up. And actually, because they were there was no injury, it was actually for me as psychiatrist, it actually worked okay because all because they were very angry, so I was able to like de-escalate the situation. Those communication skills to go. Yeah, yeah, genuinely, genuinely. Let's just de-escalate, let's Yeah, I was just I was just because they just stood on their own. It's like for like guys, let's just go to the pavement, you know. So that was the first thing I said, and then I was like, Are you okay? And they were like, Yeah, yeah, and then the other one was like, I am, but tomorrow I won't be. And I was like, Look, just it's okay. You I can't see any injuries. Are you able to cycle? Yep, go cycle. Are you able to go walk home? Yep, walk home, and let's just leave it there. Like so I did so that you know I felt like I did a pretty good intervention, but yeah, if they were injured, I would have been in trouble.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Thankfully, you just needed to use Yeah, I mean you were the right doctor to be there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, by pure chance, but yeah. Okay, last one. Would you rather listen to one song only forever or any song but one time only?

SPEAKER_01

This is difficult and cuts to a core of a of a problem I have at the moment. So my my daughter is just learning to speak, and part of that is her insistence on particular songs being played. So her favourite song is a phonics alphabet song, and she says Apple, if she would like that. She also quite likes rowro your boat, and that means that car journeys currently consists largely of listening to this phonics song, often just the first 30 seconds of it, or row row your boat on repeat. I am a bit of a when I get into a song, I do tend to like my playlists for like listening to songs of the way to work tend to be like four or five songs, and I will listen to them on repeat. But I think if you listen to one song forever, there's no song good enough that that's the only mute like that's the only mood you need. So I think I'd have to be all songs but once, but would then be very upset each time I didn't get to listen to them again.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. You'd savour that moment though.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you'd try to.

SPEAKER_00

Especially if you like the song. Yeah. Okay, if you Okay, so you're saying there's no s so if that if you were made to only listen to one song forever, you would say that's an impossible thing. You'd say there isn't a song you can do.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think it's impossible. I just think that you would eventually you would be bored of that song. Like it would uh you'd ruin it.

SPEAKER_00

What song would it be though? What song would it be if you had to?

SPEAKER_01

I'll pick my favourite song because that's probably what I'd go with. So my favourite song is by um Blues Traveller. It's called Hook. It's got uh one of the few songs with a harmonica solo in it.

SPEAKER_00

Nice, that sounds quite good. I'd love to listen to it.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's Jimmy Fallon. There's an excellent Jimmy Fallon episode where Emma Stone does one of those um, I can't remember the word for it now. They pretend to sing it, you know, quite humorous, and the songs are great.

SPEAKER_00

Nice, very, very nice. Right, what's the fourth song? How does uh Iron and Wine, Passing Afternoon, link to the fourth song on the full circle?

SPEAKER_01

So this is another one of my favourite songs from this list. Um this is a song that's in Afterlife, which was our sort of link between the last two, and it's um I Will Follow You Into the Dark, Deathcab for QT. And again, I mean it's a it's just one of those really beautiful songs, I think. Again, it's about sort of loss and acceptance and things like that. And yeah, I just think it's a really beautiful song. I can't remember, I haven't watched Afterlife for years, so I can't remember where it features in the show. But it continues that sort of uh morose, poignant, thoughtful mood that everyone's gonna have to be in when they listen to this playlist. It is another song that's in quite a few TV shows, and yeah, I just it's just a really I like songs that help you sit there and reflect.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's fair. Death Cub for Kitty, I will follow you into the dark, the fourth song on the full circle. We've got one more to go. But before we do that, before before we do this quiz that I wanted to do, um you saying that you know you've got to be in this particular mood to listen to your songs. I we would Abby and I were seeing this band, more Abby's band than I at the time, but it's fine. And then I started listening to them. And then over the next few days, I was like, God, I feel low. Like I just feel really low. And I was like, why am I feeling so low? Then it turned out that they they just write really depressing lyrics, and it and I didn't realise that it was having that impact on me. I didn't actually and so now every time we see this band, I have to, I can only I can only listen to them like a day before or something like that. So hopefully people don't people hopefully people don't feel this way when listening to songs. I think I think I think I don't think all of them are like that. I think I think I think it's good. I think it's good.

SPEAKER_01

So I just maybe don't listen to the playlist on repeat, just yes, and then something happens.

SPEAKER_00

But then someone told me, so so I had a guest on and they said that when they feel low in mood, they want to listen to to that and it actually helps them get better, which I thought was interesting. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think people use music in different ways, don't they? And it just depends how you what your what your approach to it is and how much it influences you. I think you're definitely right that if you spend your whole time listening to uh Snow Patrol, you're gonna feel sad. Because there's well, you're just bathing in sad lyrics and and sad movies.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's true. Right. Your 2000s music opinions will reveal what your best personality trait is. Fantastic. This sounds right.

SPEAKER_01

This is a Facebook classic, isn't it? From uh or Bebo back in the world.

SPEAKER_00

This is this is yeah, this is a this is a this is a classic BuzzFeed quiz. So let's uh let's let's go for it. What was your go-to song to sing in the car? Here were the four options Since You Been Gone by Kelly Clarkson, Crazy in Love, Beyonce and Jay-Z, Hey Yah by Outcast, or Mr. Brightside by the Killers.

SPEAKER_01

Oh Mr. Brightside by the Killers, comfortably for me. Perfect way to end every single wedding.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, every every night out, every event, everything always has to end on Mr. Brightside. Right, which iconics 2000's music video could you watch on repeat? Skaterboy, Avril Levine, Umbrella, Rihanna and Jay-Z, Toxic by Brittany Spears, or Hollow Backgirl by Gran Stefani.

SPEAKER_01

Just one of my when we when we originally got like digital TV, the hits TV show was like a go-to when I might have been at 13 or something, and Skaterboy's video, I think, had just come out at that time. Iconic. You can't get better than uh than Skaterboy by Avram.

SPEAKER_00

Uh she was at Glastonbury a couple of years ago, and she like they had she was on the other stage as well, not even the biggest stage, and they had to close it down. It was so cool. Like, nostalgia really is a thing. Like it is, it is just incredible. Okay, so I assume this would have been at the time in the 2000s. So, what's your favourite way to discover new music? Having a friend burn you a mix CD, waiting all day for it to play on the radio, hearing a song in a movie or TV show, or uh browsing the music store for something new.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, you couldn't get better than my car just used to be full of like burned CDs that were either me or or some random mix that one of your friends has made for you. That was a again, yeah, that was there's no better sign of friendship, was there, than I burnt you this CD of uh of random stats.

SPEAKER_00

That definitely used to be the way to do it. I also liked hearing it on the radio and recording it and then like listening to it later, but yeah. I didn't know if you were gonna say movie or TV show because that's your theme. But yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Back to the 2000s though, when you were at school.

SPEAKER_00

How did you listen to music on the go? A trusty silver iPod, a sleek flip phone with music pay playback, whatever you could get to play on a computer at the library, or an old school portable CD player.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I was uh an iPod.

SPEAKER_00

Nice. Have you still got it?

SPEAKER_01

I do, I do still have my iPod classic. I've not used it in many years because I don't obviously I've done I've lost the laptop that had all the songs on it. Ah no. Spotify and like I use Amazon, like they've killed the owning of music, haven't they? Like buying CDs is so much more expensive than having access to all of them at once.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it is why I now only really get vinyls because there's just something special about vinyls now, and that's why I've come back. And I think the emergence of, as you mentioned, Spotify, Amazon, Apple, all those sorts of stuff have have led to this happening, which is which has got his pros and cons, as you say, more accessible. But I don't know, musicians I think lose a lot more money now.

SPEAKER_01

I'm sure they do, and I you lose this is what I mean about you these losses that you get with like the little one growing up. People have lost that magic of going out and you buy, like I remember buying the Fratelli's second album, which actually wasn't very good, but being so excited to like get in the car and put that on and play that, you know, you can't get that that that little type of excitement is gone. I feel the same about like TV shows now because of between work and having a young daughter, I have don't have loads of time to watch TV. So I'm often not able to watch it when it all launches on launch day. And if you're ever on social media like TikTok, between TikTok, Twitter, and Facebook, the number of spoilers for things that are out within like a few hours of clips from the episodes and things like that, it's really hard to even capture those things anymore. Like everything gets spoiled. So I we we both like WWE, for example, and but uh you know, I don't know how much you actually watch of it. I like to watch the pay-per-views. Often they'll be spoiled for me before I get to them because without wanting to, because it's in my algorithm, half the stuff appears on there. It's a real shame that you miss those little things.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't I I keep up to date. I actually went to WrestleMania last year in Vegas. Very jealous. Yeah, which was which was uh uh I don't I don't you know it's it's definitely worth doing at some stage, but um I think unfortunately it's probably the WrestleMania maybe not to have gone to, but it's fine, it's just one of those. Okay, last one. Finally, pick an anthem for a night out with friends, get the party started by pink, I got a feeling, the black eyed peas, hot in here by Nelly or Party in the USA by Miley Cyrus. It's Party in the USA 2000s, very late 2000s? Okay, fair.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. Um I'll what were they again? All the first two?

SPEAKER_00

Sorry, uh first one, get the party started by pink, second one, I got a feeling by black-eyed peas, and then hot in here by Nelly and Party in the USA, Miley Cyrus.

SPEAKER_01

And between pink and the black-eyed peas, probably black-eyed peas, I got a feeling.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's uh that's a good way to do it. Right. Uh okay, interesting. Your best trait is resilience. You're you've weathered every playlist and every style change, and you always come out stronger, just like a power ballad. You're tough, enduring, and ready for whatever comes next.

SPEAKER_01

I've always thought that my spirit animal was a power ballad, so that is uh seems very true.

SPEAKER_00

Nice. That's that's pretty cool. Buzzfeed normally normally gets these things very inaccurate. So fair play to them for for getting that absolutely 100% spot on. Love it. Right, let's wrap things up. Dev K Dev, oh my goodness, let's wrap things up. Dev Cab for Cutie, I will follow you into the dark. How does that link to the last song on the full circle?

SPEAKER_01

So it's in Afterlife, it's also in uh one of my another of my favourite TV shows, How Make Your Mother, although it went on for far too long. That has in it a song, I've had the time of my life, Bill Medley and Jennifer Warns. Bit of a, you know, I thought good way to end this for us. I've had the time of my life chatting to the TC. And that is also in the show New Girl. And New Girl also had How to Save a Life from the Frey in it. So that's the link all the way around the circle. Very nice. So yeah, this I this is not one of my favourite songs, I'll be honest. This is a song that I found that allowed me to complete my circle. Um, after the one I'd initially thought what AI was cat working against me in this, because it turns out if you ask AI if a song has been in a TV show, it just produces gibberish. But this is um have you watched New Girl? Uh ooh, has that got uh what's her name?

SPEAKER_00

No, no, I can't remember. Yes, Zoe Dash Now say. Yeah, I've watched a bit of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So her and the another one of the main characters relationship has this song feature in it, like through the episodes of it, and that's another TV show I really enjoyed. So that's why I've put it in. Not one of my favourite songs, actually, but a good name to at least it sounds exciting. Bit of an up to the playlist.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, exactly, a bit of an upper to end it. Hence completing the full circle, yay! Oh, that's so good.

SPEAKER_01

So I think I made that far more complicated than I needed to.

SPEAKER_00

Uh look, I thought I thought it was really good. I mean, yeah, never ever, ever ask AI for these sorts of things. I think I don't think I've done it for this. Sometimes when I get guests on, sometimes I might just ask it to give me a summary. And it told me that Frank Turner had a dog named so and so. And I said, Oh yeah, just like your dog named so and so. And he goes, I never dog called that. And I was like, Oh, this is awkward.

SPEAKER_01

You have had some cracking guests on. It must be fantastic getting to chat to all these amazing artists and stuff.

SPEAKER_00

Uh it's it's cool. Yeah, there's no denying it. I mean, I didn't expect it this honestly, like it was just one of those things on a whim where I was like, Oh, do you know what? Let's just see if people would be interested, like musicians would be interested in this format. And for some reason they are. So yeah, it's it's it's cool. But obviously, I also wanted people who've who I haven't spoken to in ages also come on this show, like yourself. Like, like, you know, I remember when we when we had a great time doing the show together, and always felt bad because it got cut short. I can't remember what it was. I think I think we we were hoping it was two hours, but it got cut short to one hour. I mean, obviously now it's an hour, but it's it's because we just yap now for an hour. There's no songs in between. I but before we go, I did want to I just wanted to do you remember any of the songs that you chose uh the first time you did it? Because I've got a list. I want to know if you remember.

SPEAKER_01

So one of them was I can't one of them was No, I can't I can remember I can't remember the name of them. I do vaguely remember what the theme of them was. One of them was Macklemore, same love.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, that's the second song.

SPEAKER_01

And then the another one of them was the is it work song or something like that?

SPEAKER_00

You had you had Hosia Take Me to Church.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, there's a I think Hosier have a song called Work Song as well. So yeah, Hosia take me to church. I can remember. I have no idea what the other three are, so you'll have to tell me.

SPEAKER_00

Well, you you did four in the end because I think what what we do back then is I would play a song to see if I could if you were interested in the song. I think the song I paid you was an Imagine Dragon song. I think you quite think you didn't mind it. So Ed Shear and Thinking Out Loud, the Alex A Dare remix is what you chose, and then the last song was Ellie Golding, Anything Could Happen.

SPEAKER_01

Quite odd. Not quite an odd selection again.

SPEAKER_00

But you like that, do you still like those songs? Or do you music changed? Does your music taste changed?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I have I'd said away, I have rubbish music taste. I just like random songs. Um, I really still like the Hosier song and Macklemore. I wouldn't say I was a big fan of Ellie Goulding or Ed Sheeran particularly. I quite like some of Ed Sheeran's songs. I think again, it we've talked about it already, but I think it's quite hard to like his songs if you ever listen to the radio because they're played so much that that it becomes quite annoying. But the the first two I do still, that's that they probably are my kind of music. But I just I I like random stuff. I don't have a good I don't have good music taste. If people looked to my iPod, I'm sure they'd be uh they'd be mortified. But I like a mixture of pop and rock and whatever random stuff.

SPEAKER_00

I I I you know like fair enough if if if if if you're saying that, but I think I don't know, I think people who judge other people's music tastes, I don't know, I'd call I'd call I'd call it unacceptable. Like you can people can like what they like, you know, you can like what you like. I think you've chosen some really good songs. Obviously, it might not just because I might not listen to some of those doesn't mean I think, oh my goodness, why is your music taste like this? Like at the end of the day, uh people can listen to what they want. I think the thing that I don't like, I I I'd I'd rather I'd want people to listen to music because they actually like it, not because of some bandwagon. Like that's the thing that I think, you know, just enjoy what you enjoy. You know, some people get really upset, but some people get really like embarrassed about liking Nickelback. Like, do you know what I mean? It's like they wrote some really good songs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

They do get some good songs, they're just yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But if you say that to someone, uh you know, like they get like it's like all things, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

There's there's stuff that I think the Marvel movies is a really interesting thing where probably back when we were at school, if you'd been uh in your twenties or thirties and been interested in Marvel films, you'd have probably been made fun of. Now, because they've become mainstream, you know, there was a bit where everyone absolutely loved them and they were making billions. Now they're probably viewed as I think we've gone past that now, and now people make fun of them because they're pop they're too popular, and now that do you know what I mean? Like things do this all the time, whether it's film or TV or music. Like what you like. I don't mind having a bad taste in music. I like the songs I listen to. Just means if I do your playlist, you might not be not everything true of everything.

SPEAKER_00

I think it's cool. No, I think I like it. I think I think some really good songs, and yeah, it'll be on the playlist, check them out, and hopefully it's not too downbeat. That's the only thing, hopefully. Fingers crossed. Just reflect. Uh yeah, exactly. Reflective. It's reflective, it's reflective. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you need a day to sort of just reflect on things, listen to this playlist. Some really good song choices. DJ Coxy, any any final words to share to the Full Circle Nation before we wrap things up?

SPEAKER_01

Just thank you very much for having me on. It's been fantastic getting to chat to you and catch up a bit. Um, let's not make it ten years again. And I hope to all the viewers and listeners that they've really enjoyed it. It's been um it's been a real pleasure. Thank you very much for having me.

SPEAKER_00

Now, you've already admitted you're a meat eater. Confessed. Do you do you eat beef? I don't. Well, okay, that's fine. But for those of you that don't, or for those of you that don't want to, just remember this. Stay safe. Don't