Becoming a Spiritual Leader: Lessons in Family, Faith, and Following Christ (EP 277)

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What does it really mean to be a spiritual leader in your home and community? How can men overcome setbacks and thrive as husbands, fathers, and leaders? What are the practical steps to building a strong, Christ-centered family legacy?

This week on the MOI Podcast, host Colton Herb sits down with special guest Pastor Cooper for an inspiring and practical conversation on being a spiritual leader—at home, in marriage, with your children, and within the church. Pastor Cooper shares his journey from New York City dreams and setbacks to 45+ years of passionate ministry, including his role as a long-time NBA team chaplain and founder of outreach ministries across 24 cities in Puerto Rico.

Discover why true leadership starts with being a follower—of Christ and His Word—and how vulnerability, honesty, and commitment shape the legacy you leave. Cooper unpacks essential traits for every man, explains how to support and empower your spouse, connect authentically with your kids, and navigate challenges without compromising your core values. Whether you're a single man, new husband, father, or seasoned leader, this episode is packed with stories, biblical wisdom, and action steps to move you forward in faith, family, and influence.

If you’re searching for real answers on leading your family, building unshakeable integrity, and deepening your impact as a man of God, don’t miss this episode. Ready to step up? Listen now and check out all our free resources, mentorship options, and apparel—links below!

Watch on YouTube, listen on Apple Podcasts & Spotify, and subscribe for more. Men of Iron exists to change culture one man at a time—let’s climb that mountain together.

#christianmen #spiritualleadership #familyfirst #mensministry #manhood #legacy #mentorship

Find out more at https://menofiron.org

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Transcript

Pastor Cooper [00:00:00]:
To be a leader, you have to be a follower. You know, you have to be a follower. And there's a great verse in Jeremiah 10:23 says, the way of man is not within himself. It's not within a man to direct his own steps.

Colton Herb [00:00:18]:
Welcome back to the Men of Iron podcast. This month, we are talking about family, and today we're going to jump into being what it means to be a spiritual leader. But before we get to there, I have a guest today. Pastor Cooper. Thanks for coming up today.

Pastor Cooper [00:00:31]:
Hey, my pleasure, man. My pleasure. Good to see you.

Colton Herb [00:00:34]:
Absolutely appreciate you. I've known Pastor Cooper for a long time, a long time. And. But what's been amazing is his faithfulness and just his life really is just a example of Christ's life, really just reaching the lost and just being that example. And through the test of time, too. Yeah, yeah, through the test of time. And so I just want to give you an opportunity to introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about you family, what that looks like life, what you're up to now.

Pastor Cooper [00:01:01]:
Wow. Well, okay. Geez. Born in 1961. No, actually, I got saved in 79. It was interesting because I grew up in New York City, and when I grew up, I grew up watching Walt Frazier and Earl of Pearl. And my dream, I dreamed that I worked at was to be a professional basketball player and play for the New York Knicks.

Colton Herb [00:01:27]:
Come on.

Pastor Cooper [00:01:28]:
Right? So at 18, I get saved, and instead of going to college, I ended up going to Bible school. Really put a knife in my father's heart. He was like, he didn't talk to me for three years. Long story short, I had a Bible school. Got involved with youth ministry right away. And the interesting thing for me, though, was when I went, I went. I didn't know anything about theology or becoming a pastor. All I knew is that I wanted to get to know God. You know, when I got saved, I was like, wow. You know, I thought God was way up there, but now he's like this. Yeah. And so I want to learn more about that. So I went and ended up hooking up with gentleman who started the first chapel service for the NBA with the Boston Celtics, Billy. And traveled to him to the Garden. And long story short, 20 years later, I get asked to help chapel in New York for the Knicks. So for me, it's like, okay, my dream, the desire of my heart was to be a professional ball player and play for the Knicks. And then, you know, if I made it, I'm six one, you know, I might have got in, like, I Would have been a guy sitting on the bench. And then when you know they're up by 40, everybody's saying put, you know, so like, and I would have made it maybe a year or whatever if I made it. But now, you know, I just stepped away from a 21 year old career chaplain and the New York Knicks. So shout out to Nobles, who did a great podcast with you. Yeah. A while ago. Great young man. And when guys like that are stepping up, we can pursue other things God has called us to do. But got married early when I lived in Massachusetts. Five year married, got divorced, got three girls. Beautiful, beautiful young girls. And then I came down to Baltimore in 94. And in 94, unexpectedly, I was a single father. I took my youngest daughter with me and I was raising her from 4 years old and stayed single for 7 years and didn't expect this, but ended up meeting my wife now who had been married 24 years. This coming. No, the 24th of this month. I gotta remember.

Colton Herb [00:04:02]:
Happy anniversary.

Pastor Cooper [00:04:03]:
Yeah, yeah, I gotta remember that. That's why I said that, so I can remember. Yeah. But, but anyway, we, but when I married her, she had four little children, little toddlers. The oldest was seven years old. So I did two cycles of parenthood, raised seven children. And it was interesting because, you know, we go through trials and this iron, sharpen iron and men sharpening each other is such a, such a important thing. And what you're doing is like incredible. I'm really proud of you that. Because if I, When I went through the hardest trials of my life, going through divorce, church split and a whole bunch of stuff, I actually stepped away for two years. And it was men in my life that I could lean on that actually helped me to come back. And, and when I came back, you know, I was involved in ministry for 10 years already. When I came back, I didn't think I could even minister. And it's interesting because I told our pastor, I said, listen, you know, I'm. I came back because, you know, the world is not it. Once you've had Christ, it's like you can't go back to the world and be satisfied. And it's like there's a difference between the emotional feelings and, and the mental. And in my head I said, listen, I just need to go and sit under the Word and the Word will restore me. Because I was done. I was, I was done hurt and done. And you know, my pastor saw me, said, hey, let's go for a ride. And he said to me, he said, I said, hey, listen, I'm not soul winning or evangelized anymore, you know, and I've led bus ministries and raised youth groups and all that kind of stuff and Bible studies. He says, that's fine. Don't let anybody condemn you. And then the next word out of his mouth was, but when are you going to go for your ordination? I'm like, man, what did I just tell you? Right? What he was saying to me was that man, doesn't change the call that God has in your life. And that was, that was a really good lesson I learned. And long story short, you know, I started mentoring some family members of some of the kids that I had as teenagers that were now young adults in Bible school. And through that process, God totally healed me. And then eventually they, they asked me to be, you know, outreach director and stuff like that. And so I've been leading outreaches for, and training people for over 30 years. And yeah, so like, that's kind of like brought me to this place now where, where in doing so I've always, anybody that's planted a new work, one of the things we used to do is we used to take the outreach leaders and visit different church plants. If a guy went out, planted a church, I would go maybe three or four times a year and go help him to, to build his work and stuff like that. And, and through it came a trip to Puerto Rico and, and my three daughters are half Puerto Rican. And I just got a burden for the Spanish culture because I grew up in New York. So New York in the 60s, there were some opportunities for African Americans. And what really hit me though was when I left the New York area and I went to Massachusetts, it was like neighborhoods were more segregated, so there was less opportunities. And I find that to be true in Baltimore I'm at now, it's like the people, my, my nationality, I would say, was kind of stuck in that civil rights age where they feel that there's not opportunities where, when there are. So anyway, I'm saying that to say that we've had great training, but where we are, we're not getting a lot of Hispanic men that were training. So where's the best place to find Spanish men? It's in Puerto Rico. And so went there to test it in 2013. I said, listen, if, if we get results, you know, there's fruit, people respond to what we're saying, then I know that this is where I'm supposed to be. If not then at least I can wash my hands of it. So went, it took off. So this past Year was like, okay, 21 years in New York is good. You know, We've grown to 24 cities in Puerto Rico now work with guys in the league down there. So stepped away from that and now occupy with that, you know, full time.

Colton Herb [00:09:28]:
That's awesome. I think just listening. I don't think I've ever heard your full story right there alone.

Pastor Cooper [00:09:34]:
I said it too, buddy.

Colton Herb [00:09:36]:
Sure. So just listening to that piece of. Just the whole time, God's working. Yeah, right. God was working the whole time through that story. And, and I'm sure there was tough patches and the time of even stepping away and being like, I don't want anything to do with this. And then God still, okay, you made that. Make your choice. He lets us choose.

Pastor Cooper [00:09:55]:
Yeah.

Colton Herb [00:09:55]:
But yet still, he still has a call in your life and still reeling you in.

Pastor Cooper [00:09:59]:
Absolutely. And always had people in place. And that's why I love what you guys are doing. Because if men weren't there in place, like, you know, you can have, you go to the church, there's 50 people. You go to the church, there's a hundred people, there's a thousand people. But out of even a 50, there's maybe a handful of guys that you could really, you know, trust to pour your soul out to, you know, that's why I love Noble so much, because he's that kind of guy. And you know, and we've done things in the NBA as far as getting all the chaplains together. And across the board, guys like Nobles are really unique. Yeah. You know, there's just guys out there that are just doing it, you know, for the, hey, I'm in the NBA type of thing. But these guys like Nobles that really care about the heart of men and that's who Christ was. Yep. So if we're not. And I guess being from New York, being from New York, it's a big busy city, you have to be sharp minded, you have to be discerning. You know, you have to, I call it, you may call it street smart, but that's a good thing, you know, as a believer, because there's, there's people that say praise the Lord and you know, I'm a Christian but yet won't walk a mile in your shoes or point start pointing the finger at you when you have trouble in your life and not look at you with the finished work eyes of Christ. You know, like Jesus is like, listen, yeah, I know that, I know you messed up, but I paid for it. So how can we restore this? And you know, there may be some you know, maybe some reaping. Yep, of course. But reaping what you sow does not minimize redemption, you know. And so I've had those men in my life on a, you know, count them on a hand. Sure. That was there for me and helped me recover when it was tough.

Colton Herb [00:11:59]:
Man, that's so good. And talking today about, you know, spiritual leader and what that looks like.

Pastor Cooper [00:12:04]:
Yeah.

Colton Herb [00:12:05]:
I think even with just the different roles that you played, you know, raising your daughter, raising, going, going through what you went through, raising three more kids, going through that cycle twice. Yeah, right. And having to be that strong leader. What are some like characteristics or pieces that you think are essential for spirit to be a spiritual leader? Like what does that look like? How do you, how do you say, like when someone says, man, I want to, I want to be a leader and I want to be led by the spirit in doing so.

Pastor Cooper [00:12:31]:
Exactly.

Colton Herb [00:12:31]:
What do those pieces look like?

Pastor Cooper [00:12:34]:
To be a leader you have to be a follower. You know, you have to be a follower. And there's a great verse in Jeremiah 10:23, it says, the way of man is not within himself. It's not within a man to direct his own steps. So we all make decisions based on what has influenced or, or motivated us. And two things, like, there's who we are on the outside, but then there's the soul, who we are on the inside. And that's the guy, that's the guy I have to be true to. You know, we adjust our outer man to fit into society, you know, and have relationships. But to be a leader, you have to let Christ in, you have to let him take over. Like you have to, you have to learn to trust them in the, in the times where you can't even see in front of your face. And you know, in that circumstance, I explained before that that was a place where I got saved because of people were Christlike to me. Like I, I put people that witnessed to me through the ringer. But there was one lady who, this one lady sister of a friend of mine, her husband was in jail, she was raising a kid by herself, had a part time job, I had a new car, nice job. And I always made excuses for her. And one day I told her I didn't have enough gas in my car, my new little sports car, right? And this is, you don't know anything about this, but this was back when gas was 70 cents a gallon, okay. And the next day in the mail was a card for her from her with $5 in it. And I tell you what, I wasn't saved yet, but I was like, this is. This is like a lottery ticket, man. And I just jumped up and ran and put it in my car. And when I went to the Bible study, it's like, this is disco days. So I had put on loud clothes and all this kind of stuff, and I walked in and. And you know how you walk into a strange place and you. You feel a little nervous? Yeah, I felt it suppressed, and I was relaxed. And then when the pastor started explaining Christ, I was like, yo, you know, so her. And I was like, well, she was like that to me. And she knows I was playing games. She knows I was running games. But in her. In her condition, where she couldn't afford to do what she did, she did it out of love, and God took care of her. And so to be a leader, you got to let. You have to let Christ in the deepest part of you. And you have to. You can't give what you haven't received. You have to trust him in the roughest times, and that's not emotional. You make a decision based on what he said, yeah, I'm going to believe you. I don't feel like believing you, but I'm going to trust you. So like I said, when I recovered, it was knowing that a. The word of God will do its work, that Christ is real, and that he can do what he says he's doing. So the second word would be the big V word, vulnerability. As men, we need to be vulnerable. We need to be vulnerable, and then we can lead others. Because you know what? When I went through my divorce, all the good Christian men that have not suffered couldn't do a thing for me. All the verses, they, well, brother, you know, third John, you know, psych. I'm like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, but the person who walked into my shoes and could look me in eye and says, you know what? I know how you hurt because I've been there. Just trust God. Because look at, you know, God got me through it. He'll get you through it. That's what made a difference, you know, that's what made a difference, man, that's.

Colton Herb [00:16:47]:
So good, I think so many times we can blow it out of proportion, right? Of what it means to be a leader. Put all these, like, different titles to. Or different words and try to make it. But the simplicity in that. And that's how God is. God is so simple. And so many times we try to make. Oh, it has to be all these 20 different things, or I got to read these 30 different books. To be a good leader. But it comes down to that. I only. I only can lead from what I've. What I've been taught and who I'm following.

Pastor Cooper [00:17:12]:
That's right. And I've been in ministry for 45 years, Cole. 45 years. And I have to apologize, and I'm constantly apologizing to all you young guys of how we represent it in the beginning, because Christianity all through the 80s and 90s was all about behavior. All about behavior. And like, you know, we. We read a verse with a lady yesterday. She asked about Psalm 23, and, you know, leads me in paths or righteousness, Right? And we say, well, that means behavior. Like, you know, when we talk about righteousness, we have to behave, you know, and it's not. It's a position. We can't. We can't behave perfect for God. It's like, we have to accept what he's done for us. He's given us his righteousness. So my walking in righteousness is not me being. And we've done this. We've done this to you guys. Behave, especially in the area of sexuality and family. Don't do this. Don't do that. Don't do this. I've spoken to so many young couples that come to me as a young couple and say, we did it by the book. We saved ourselves for marriage. Now we're together, we're married, but physically, we're, like, really not comfortable because all we've heard was negativity about the beautiful intimacy that God has created. And so, you know, a. I tell you what, another very important part of being a leader is, is your personal, individual relationship with God, you know, trusting his word. The beauty of it is, is when you trust God's word, He puts people together. We've put in the past, we've put organizations above the word. Oh, you got to do it like we do it, brother, or you got to do it this way, you know? Yeah, I get that when I'm in Puerto Rico. Well, are you going to do this, this, this, this? I said, no, I'm going to do what God, the Lord is leading me to do. And the results, if it's fruitful, blesses the church, and then people learn and grow. So, you know, have to be led. You have to be led by his spirit and trust his spirit.

Colton Herb [00:19:44]:
When we talk about spiritual leadership and the pieces kind of went a little bit on the high level of what. What those pieces are.

Pastor Cooper [00:19:50]:
Yeah.

Colton Herb [00:19:50]:
How does a man be a spiritual leader for his. For his wife? Right, Right.

Pastor Cooper [00:19:58]:
Yeah.

Colton Herb [00:19:58]:
Let's start with the wife and being that leader. What does that look like in the marriage? Really?

Pastor Cooper [00:20:03]:
Okay, Proverbs 11:30. The fruit of the righteous, the fruit of people who know who they are in Christ, is a tree of life. What's a tree? You know, we are plant trees of righteousness planted by the water, right? We're trees, okay? It's. It's. We have to know in a marriage how to reproduce fruit in our partner. But it's not us that produces the fruit is Christ. For my wife to grow as a tree, her roots. Her roots have to be planted not in me, but in. In Christ. So we get. We take this thing called headship and we say, okay, I'm above you. No, I say this being a covering or a head means that I'm on my hands and knees and you step on my back and get closer to God. That's in pastoring, too. That's a leader, lady, dude. So for me, you know, I can manipulate my wife to get a response. Well, what's that? Yeah, that's. That's. That doesn't feel good, you know, that doesn't feel good. Like, if my wife comes and gives me a hug and a kiss because she loves me, that feels good. But if my wife gives me a hug and, hey, baby, give me a hug. Give me a kiss, you know, that doesn't feel good. You walk away from that, it's like, that was empty, you know? But. But. So I found that there's two rules, because I've done a few weddings. Sure. You know, there's a few rules I have. Like, number one, everybody has a backpack on their back, and in that backpack is baggage from the past. Okay? So, you know, your partner has a backpack. The rule number one is you never reach into the other person's backpack and pull their stuff out and throw it in their face. Number one, it'll come out when it comes out. You want to help them deal with it when they're ready, not when you're ready. We got to straighten this out. No, it's like, it'll come up in a marriage. But the other. The other rule is, is like, I have to know if I want to win my wife. I need to know what builds her up in her personal relationship. And you know, when I. Like I said, my second wife had four kids. So when we didn't really date pre marriage, because it was like our dating was going shopping to the store, doing laundry, and all this kind of stuff because we, between us, we're dealing with seven kids, but it's like there was a woman's Bible study that really built her up. So I said, you know what? That night, no matter if I want to or not, I'm watching all the kids. I'm watching all the kids. You go, you do your thing, you know, what do you like? What? You know? She likes to work with young girls, so for years she just stopped working. We started going to Puerto Rico more. But for years, for the young pre. Teen girls, every Monday night in the summer, she would have a. A backyard, a little, little fire pit, fire pit chat for all the girls. And, and all these little girls would be in our yard and all that stuff every Monday, and every Monday I'm out the way. You know what I mean? Yep. So when she comes back to me, oh, man, she's. She's blessing me with what God has done in her life. Yeah, so. So it's interesting, man. It's like Jesus Christ knows us intimately and personally. He knows what we need. Right. We need to love our partner intimately and personally. So. And, and understand what they need and not make it happen, but get out of the way of it happening. What, that, you know, Tuesday nights, that's your night. Go do your thing, you know?

Colton Herb [00:24:16]:
Yep. When you so taking that piece. So we kind of talking about the wife being the spiritual leader for my wife.

Pastor Cooper [00:24:23]:
Yes.

Colton Herb [00:24:24]:
Now, what about your kids? Right, because they're watching you. Your kids are watching all the moves you make and, you know, talking through these other podcasts we're going to do about being a, you know, spiritual father, like how important it is for you to be a spiritual leader to your kids as well. And what would you say with having the kids that you've had, like, thinking that through, you know, like, how did I. Did I lead properly? Yeah, how do I make an. Maybe guys are listening right now and like, maybe I need to make an adjustment.

Pastor Cooper [00:24:53]:
Yeah.

Colton Herb [00:24:54]:
Maybe I'm not leading. Right. Maybe I'm maybe doing some things right or maybe I'm not doing anything right at all. How do I make that adjustment? And how do I be that spiritual leader for my kids and for my family as a whole, man?

Pastor Cooper [00:25:06]:
Greatest gift God gave us was free will. All of our kids have free will. Our spouse has. Has free will. We can't manipulate. It is to be 100% honest. And I believe, man, you know, this may be tough for somebody, but zero tolerance, you know, Zero tolerance. The rules for the house is, you know, this is your home, you're the head of your home, so you establish the rules, you know, Rules sounds like a rough word, but this is how we're going to do it in. In this house. This house is, you know, it's mommy and daddy's job to. To protect you before God, you know, so we're going to do this and we're not going to compromise, okay? If you. If you step into that lane, then these are going to be the consequences. And there's no, you know, there's no arguing about it. The great person to refer to is the old Dr. Dobson, the old books he used to write, you know, because he used to explain the makeup of kids without telling you exactly what to do or how to do it, but helping you understand. So all of your kids are different. Gosh, all our kids are different. And so I've raised natural and I've raised step. So it's like the principle is. Is there's a verse in Psalm 27:10 that says, though your mother and father forsake you, the Lord will take you up and adopt you as his very own. And the word adoption means like that. Any legal stipulation that had to be met for it, for you to be a legal heir has been dealt with, Right? Like I have stepchildren, you know, I have not adopted them because their natural dad is alive. And even though that's a broken relationship, I'm praying for them that one day that'll. They can work that, you know, out. But. So if I die, they get nothing. I'm kidding. Unless I sign up. I'll sign a paper, but you know what I'm saying. But if I adopted them, without question, they're automatic heirs. I mean, they're automatic heirs anyway. They just don't know it. I mean, they don't. But it was interesting because especially with the stepchildren, number one, I knew that I could not replace natural daddy, okay? I could not replace that. And then as a natural father, I could not replace the Heavenly Father. I have to teach them how to relate to the perfect one when the imperfect one is imperfect. Like, hey, I'm going to do the best I can. But where I'm wrong, you know, God is not trust him. You know, when you can't trust me or, you know, so I would say this, I had to learn this with my. My step kids is I had to make decision man. Okay? I'm dealing with four. So it's like they become the fishing buddy, the baseball guy, you know, an entertaining guy to make them all like me. I can manipulate them to like me, and then they would grow up still with all the. The damage that, you know, the trauma they have from their. From their broken relationship with their dad. Or I could be the uncompromising tough guy that gives them truth and they're gonna fight it. And it was like that I told my wife when we got married, I said, you know what? These teenage years are going to be like, you know, like hell, you know, but at the end, we'll reap. And that's exactly what happened. That's exactly what happened. Tough times. And then, funny thing is, okay, so. So I'm not. I'm not gonna throw him under the bus, but one of our kids wanted to start dabbling with, you know, a little bit of weed and stuff like that, right? And it's like, okay, number one, we told him. I said this, you are not going to put peer pressure on your siblings. This is a safe house. There's no peer pressure in this house. So if you want to do something outside of that, then guess what? You're going to go. And it's funny because before I even got to him, it's like his mother was like, you know, you're out. Yeah. And the cool thing about that uncompromised was he came back. Could I talk to you guys? That wasn't worth it. I'm so sorry. You know, any straight that saved him from going deep into that area in his life, if we compromise, it was like, sentimental. I know so many young people that have parents that compromise and they're still stuck not knowing how to get out because there's not somebody that. That gives them that truth. So to be uncompromising to. And to be true to your word and to be honest and being able to say you're sorry, but also, I did this. It was like, this is dangerous, you know? You know, year of jubilee, you know, seventh year old, debt is forgiven, right? So when the kids are having a tough time, we sit them down at the table. So, okay, this is a year of jubilee. Okay? You can say anything you want and you will not get punished, but we want you to express yourself 100%. And, man, it got ugly. It got ugly. But things that they didn't understand. We. Were you able to say, no, it's not like this. This is why we're doing this. And they were like, oh. And it helped them and it set them free. So they. They need to be able to. God, if you're a parent, you want your kid to talk to you. You want your kid to talk to you. Even if they did the stupidest, ugliest thing in the world as a youth leader. You know how many young girls came to me and was like, you know, shaking, crying. I got pregnant and they're expecting, you know, this. The finger of shame. But instead we open our arms and say, come here. It's going to be all right. You know what I'm saying?

Colton Herb [00:31:31]:
Yeah.

Pastor Cooper [00:31:31]:
So I guess. I guess you have to have, you know, if you're a Christian, you have to believe that Christ died and treat your kids as if Christ died for their sins, too. Yeah. And just like Christ wants to restore us, how do I restore my kid? That's what discipline is. Yeah. You know, man, that's so good.

Colton Herb [00:31:51]:
Last, one, last kind of piece that I want to touch on is spiritual leaders in the church. And having being a spiritual leader in the church and feeling called. Right. Like you were talking about God kind of pricked your heart and.

Pastor Cooper [00:32:04]:
Yes, sir.

Colton Herb [00:32:04]:
And all those different pieces. So as I'm a spiritual leader at the church, what does that look like? You have a. God's calling you to something.

Pastor Cooper [00:32:11]:
Yeah.

Colton Herb [00:32:12]:
Maybe God's calling some. Someone's listening. God's calling them to do something, but they're not sure. Maybe something like Puerto Rico.

Pastor Cooper [00:32:17]:
Right. Yeah.

Colton Herb [00:32:17]:
I gotta go test the waters.

Pastor Cooper [00:32:19]:
Yeah.

Colton Herb [00:32:19]:
Let's see if fruit comes from it.

Pastor Cooper [00:32:21]:
Yeah.

Colton Herb [00:32:21]:
How is it to be when God's calling you to something and being a spiritual leader in that you've had several different roles in spiritual leadership with inside the church.

Pastor Cooper [00:32:29]:
Yes.

Colton Herb [00:32:29]:
What does that look like? And how do you be that spiritual leader that you need to be?

Pastor Cooper [00:32:33]:
Man shoo.

Colton Herb [00:32:36]:
That's another podcast.

Pastor Cooper [00:32:39]:
Another podcast is Anita podcast. Yeah. Because men struggle in this area. It's like, okay, so in pr, because of being in New York so many years, we plan an outreach ministry in Puerto Rico. Not the standard mission plan. A church then bring everybody to you. But we've went to everybody, and actually we're in 24 cities because people that we've ministered to have brought us to other people. It's not because I'm a great evangelist, but. But it's because of. Of helping these people. They brought us to other people. But all these different churches have come to us now. You know, the Bible speaks of Leviathan. Right. It speaks of Satan, the head. It speaks of a monster like an alligator. The head is Satan and. And the body is all his demons. Jesus Christ is the head of the church. Right. We're the body of Christ. How many denominations did I pass on the way up here? You know what I'm saying? We're. We're divided. They're not. And it's because. And this is what I tell these guys, because we do. We do a. A zoom study every Monday with. With all different guys from different churches. I said, listen, if you're dedicated more to your denomination than you are Jesus Christ and his Word, then the most you'll ever be is what another man has made you. Because every denomination started with one man serving God, like, making a huge difference, okay? But then the church, when it became an organization, it's lost that fire. Like, it's lost that. So if you follow Christ, if you're true to the word and don't compromise it, I'm, you know, I've assisted pastors, so I haven't compromised. If something's not right, then I speak up, but I don't have to be a jerk about it, you know, but I have to speak up. And I presented. And now if a person walk, continues to want to walk with it in the wrong direction, then that says something about that leader. And you have to ask yourself, okay, is this a learning curve for that person? Or, you know, lord, do I stay here or do I leave? Do I leave? You know, two things. One, if. One, if you quick to leave and you're part of the resolution, then nothing gets resolved, okay? But also, if you're a person of the Word, then you're an asset to your church and you're a help to your pastor. You know, one of the pastors, you know, well, this Italian guy, right? Very strong Italian guy. I know a lot of people that just listen to what he says and just does it without thinking. And I'm like, what are you doing? I'm like, I. I've known him. We've been friends before. We were both ordained. I disagree with. If I disagree with him, I let them know. Like, if I didn't agree with him, I'd be living in another continent right now, you know? Right now, you know, But I knew what God wanted me to do. But because I do, guess what? I'm a good friend to him. You know, when he's struggling with something, he can come to me and we can talk, you know, and I can tell them the truth even if I. If I disagree with them. And you know what? You can't be afraid to butt heads with somebody. You can't be afraid to not argue. But disagree. Disagree doesn't mean that you don't love the person. You know, There have been men that I've disagreed strongly with, but the very next morning, we could go out to breakfast because we love each other, you know, and because Christ was lifted up and love was made the issue. The Holy Spirit now reveals what's true. Whether I'm right or wrong or whether they're right or wrong. We could come to that place without condemnation or without shaming each other. So you have to. Anybody that steps up in leadership has. They have to have a devotion and a commitment to the word of God first, to the Bible, first. What the scripture says. Yeah. You know, like this trip. You know, it's interesting because when. When you. When that happens, it's like you can help other people be free. Because all of us old guys have grown up in very starch, stern, strict systems. Very starch, strict systems. And if we're honest, anybody in their 60s or 70s still has some of that old system bleeding out of them. I can't do it like that. Because this. And when you sit down and think about it, because of this is because of what we were told it was supposed to be like. But that's not what the Bible is saying. Like. Like, if I'm your pastor, I'm the one. I'm. I'm. I have no more access to God than you do. Right. I. You know, and here's. Here's pastors telling people who they should marry. Pastors telling people what they. What they should do in a circumstance. You know, pastors telling people that they shouldn't get divorced. When a lady is getting beat up by her husband, just be all that. The book says this. That's not what it's saying. You know, man, that's.

Colton Herb [00:38:19]:
I think all those different pieces of how to be a spiritual leader are so crucial, no matter what part that may be yours or maybe is in the future for you. Maybe you're not a husband yet, right. Maybe you're a single guy. You know, being. Still being a spiritual leader, whether you're in the church leading. Whether that is. Or whether you're leading a family, like, all those three pieces put together. My last question for you, and I always ask every guest this, okay. What do you want your legacy to be?

Pastor Cooper [00:38:45]:
Oh, that's an easy one for me.

Colton Herb [00:38:47]:
Come on, give it to me.

Pastor Cooper [00:38:48]:
Because I'm, you know, with the stroke stuff and all that stuff, like, so you really think about these things. It's like, when I was young, I. I never thought that, you know, when you first get saved back in the 60s and 70s, you first get saved, man, and you hear about the Rapture, right? You're like, I'm not even gonna see the year 2000, right here it is. 20, 25. I'm like, I'm going home in a box, you know, or a cup. But I want my legacy to be fruit. I've been your brother. Your. Your brother is married to my goddaughter. Okay. Her brother just had a baby. I'm holding that baby. We're celebrating his grandmother's 80th birthday. Then I looked across the room. I was like, okay. Jesse's mom was a teenager that got saved. After she got saved, the difference in her life brought her parents to church. Then Herbie, Cad, Barrett had Jesse and Kaylin, and now Jesse had a baby. That's four generations. Four generations of people. And I don't take credit for that, but each and every one of them can trust me with whatever. With the good, the bad, the ugly. And that's what I want my legacy to be. That. That I was someone that a people can trust. And the fruit remains not my work, because the fruit is not me. The fruit is just helping a branch get plugged into the vine. But the vine is Jesus Christ. It's not. And, you know, it's like, I suffer because I think like that. Like, I have a. I have a. We have a nonprofit in Puerto Rico, and we don't do anything to try to raise money and make it a business type of a church because we're so occupied. And. And God has just taken us all over the place and brought people. And the coolest thing is he's brought pastors, pastors that were out there. And this is what I realized, like, because a lot of people, you know, churches can be divided, you know, oh, well, you're this denomination with that denomination. But I find that a lot of pastors out there only have what they've been taught in the seminary that they've gone to. And not that I'm better or, you know, they're things that they've learned that I haven't learned. We can grow with each other, you know, and the Holy Spirit can work out all the. All the little stupid, different stuff that people make a big deal out of, you know? Yeah.

Colton Herb [00:41:52]:
Now, that's so good. I think I. We. We were just saying on another podcast for, you know, legacy, like, I just want to be pointing people to Christ. Like, that's it. Like, that's it. I don't care what. I just want people to look at my life and say, that's where he was pointing me.

Pastor Cooper [00:42:06]:
Yeah.

Colton Herb [00:42:06]:
And if that's. If that's. If that can be it at the end of the day, if that's like my tombstone piece or whatever, like, people can just look back and say, pointed people to Christ.

Pastor Cooper [00:42:14]:
Yes, that's it. I'm good in heaven. You know what's cool? In heaven, people are going to walk up to you and say, you know what, man? You don't even know who I am, but you did a podcast, and it changed my life. You know what I'm saying?

Colton Herb [00:42:30]:
Yep.

Pastor Cooper [00:42:31]:
That's the great. That is the cool thing. It's like, oh, hey, cool, right?

Colton Herb [00:42:36]:
Yeah.

Pastor Cooper [00:42:36]:
You know, that's part of the joy of being with the Lord in heaven, man. No.

Colton Herb [00:42:40]:
Awesome.

Pastor Cooper [00:42:40]:
But it's fun.

Colton Herb [00:42:41]:
Awesome. Well, I appreciate you coming in today.

Pastor Cooper [00:42:43]:
Oh, it's my pleasure.

Colton Herb [00:42:44]:
And just talking about spiritual leaders and how they're so important for us. I think that's something that, as men, to step up sometimes can be tough. You got to be vulnerable.

Pastor Cooper [00:42:53]:
Yes.

Colton Herb [00:42:53]:
You got to be led by the word. You have to. You have to follow first before you.

Pastor Cooper [00:42:57]:
Can lead, even if nobody else does.

Colton Herb [00:43:00]:
Come on. And I think hearing those words today, I hope someone out there just feels encouraged in them and knows to take the next step of whether that's for their. For their marriage with their wife, maybe that's for their family, or maybe they're in the church. So just thank you again for making the trip up.

Pastor Cooper [00:43:16]:
Oh, thanks for having me.

Colton Herb [00:43:17]:
No, I really appreciate it.

Pastor Cooper [00:43:18]:
God bless you and a Men of Iron man. What a great thing you guys are doing.

Colton Herb [00:43:21]:
Thank you. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for joining us on the Men of Iron podcast. This month, we're going to be diving into all these different topics of family, brothers, sons, husbands, all these different things. And we're just so thankful that you joined us today. If you want to check out some of our stuff, check down in the links. We have links to our basecamp free resources. We also have a store on there. So if you want some swag like this hat I got on, feel free to check it out. We'll see you guys next week as we dive into more of family.

Pastor Cooper [00:43:49]:
Thanks for listening to the Men of Iron podcast.

Colton Herb [00:43:51]:
Be sure to, like, subscribe and share. At Menaviron, we exist to change a.

Pastor Cooper [00:43:55]:
Culture one man at a time, and.

Colton Herb [00:43:56]:
We'D love to have you partner with us.

Pastor Cooper [00:43:58]:
So go to menaviron.org to see how you can get involved or donate@menaviron.org donate.