BlacKkKlansman (2018)

This week on Sister Cinema Swap, Kate finally watches BlacKkKlansman. Kate and Emily discuss VHS movies, David Bowie, spy music, letting tension build, First Communion candles, a tense dinner lineup, leading double lives, and self-help tapes. Additionally, Kate gives up on the police chief, Emily wasn't worried if Kate would like it, and they both agree the telephone is a central character.

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Artwork by Jenni Crowley.  Music by Nick Heredia.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Sister Cinema Squat, the podcast where two sisters work through their backlogs of movies they haven't seen yet. I'm Emily Bateman.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

I'm Kate Kabala, and I finally watch Black Clansman. It's God, it was really good.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

I'm so glad.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

It was really, really good.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

I'm so glad that this was on our list. This was like one I like genuinely wasn't worried about. I was like, yeah, this is good. I know this is good and I fuck I know it and it's good at the end.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Like it's I know it's good and Kate's gonna like it. And you were correct.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Well, good. Um I feel like we switch this up sometimes, but um uh on our list it says uh if you want to share why you missed it first.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Yeah, so I know that this is one of those movies that came out and I remember it coming out and like seeing like I don't know if I ever even saw a trailer for it or if I just saw like like the poster and like kind of was aware of it and thought, oh, I should see that, and then just didn't. But then I also I was trying to remember what else came out this year. I looked it up, so many movies came out in 2018, and so many of them oh my god, and I didn't see so many of them. I yeah, like going through the list, I was like, these are all really good movies, like are supposed to be really good movies, and I either didn't see them then or saw them way later. And so I don't I think in 2018 I was no, I know exactly what was happening in 2018. I was working like five jobs. So that's great. Yeah, that was when I was teaching, I was tutoring, I was at Starbucks so I could have health insurance, and then I started my factory job, and then for a little while I was doing all of them. Um, and so I was just busy. Um, so that's why I didn't really see any movies in 2018.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

That's fair. That's like the literal opposite because 2018 was like a full year of Chase and I going every week on Tuesdays. Oh man. So we got all the movies that year. This is when you pulled ahead and you were like, here we go, let's rack them up. Yeah, we we we went hard in the paint um for like Oscar movies and like I mean, because this obviously was one. Yeah. Um, but even like the random shit. Yeah, 2018 was a good year for movies. And we'll we'll kind of get into that a little bit. Specifically about Adam Driver, because I was like, he was not, I mean, this this was huge for Adam Driver. Um I mean he's we've done some other stuff.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Was this this was after Star Wars?

SPEAKER_01 2:47

After the first one, but the second one also came out in 2018. Oh my god. And then the third one came out in 2019. Wow. I'll just tell you now. So no please. Logan Lucky 2017. No. Yep. And then the year after, marriage story 2019. Oh. Which is also on your list.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

This is it is on my list.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

This is like Peak Adam Driver. Yeah. My God, I forgot how much I thought he was hot. Like he's this is yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Yep, I got the hots for Adam Driver. You are you are correct. He's lovely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Yeah. I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Yeah, I just know I get it. Yeah, that's God, that is so funny. So okay. Did you see? I know we've we've both talked about how much we like Logan Lucky. Did you see that the year it came out? Yes. Okay. Oh, yes. An emphatic yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Well, also, you say you didn't see a trailer. Because we went to see movies every week, we saw all the trailers. Oh my god, you're so we knew when everything was coming. Yeah. And we would like be like, okay, we're marking down, like, we're waiting for the the week. Okay, it came out this weekend. We're gonna see it on Tuesday. You know, we got like we're we're planning out our weeks.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

You're you're the couple that after every trailer uh like before a movie, you're like, we gotta see that one.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Yes. It's like, oh yeah, we're going to do that. We absolutely were. Yeah. I love that. And the horror ones, I'd be like, no, no, no, thank you. No, no, no, I don't want it. I'm gonna cover my eyes. Tell me when it's over. Yeah, 100%. Yes, totally.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Oh, that's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, so and and um, yeah, before that, he was in uh that TV show girls. So like that's I think where he really came out into the you know, the public eye. He was in that. I never watched girls, I didn't either, and then I believe before that uh I know he was in he was a B character in a rom-com starring a Daniel Radcliffe, um, which is also very cute. And it's about uh him falling in love with a girl who has a boyfriend, and Adam Driver is Daniel Radcliffe's friend.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Oh, oh and he's kind of a shithead. That's interesting. Okay, that sounds fun. I might have to find it's good. It's good.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Yeah, I think maybe we should add that to your list because it's very fun.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Maybe might have to look at that.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Yes. So I jumped, I jumped the shark, but um, yes, my my love for Adam Driver is strong, and this movie only solidified it more. Amazing. Uh okay, so uh why did I see this movie? Um, because we saw movies every week and we saw the trailer and we're like, oh, this looks fucking dope. The cast was amazing. Like, there was so much about Topher Grace uh playing David Duke that was out there. Isaiah Whitlock Jr. Um, because he had been on um uh not suits. Um what was that TV show? Oh man, it's in I have a long list of fun facts.

unknown 5:47

No, you're fine.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

I can I say I Isaiah Whitlock Jr., he was I most recently saw him in The Residence, and he was one of my favorite characters in that show. I love that show so much. I have rewatched it a bunch. I was really hoping he was gonna hang out a little bit longer and then he was just that one fucking scene. I was like, come back, why? I was very sad when he didn't come back. The wire. There we go. The God, the wire. He was in the wire. Need to watch the wire, heard it so good.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

But what's cool is that his his catchphrase is she and he got to say it in this movie also. That's his catchphrase from The Wire.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

I didn't realize that. Oh, okay. That's fun, good for him.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

I love that. He was also in uh at least one other Spike Lee film, uh The Five Bloods. Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

I did I did see that he was in that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Yes, and he sadly uh passed away uh last year, last December. I didn't realize that. Oh no. Yes, at the age uh December 30th, 2025. So very recently. But yeah, I was it was fun to see him in a film then. Yeah. Um, yes, so that is why I saw the movie.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Yeah. So I was gonna say you looked up your like your uh list of movies. Do you want to save your your uh what six uh eight years ago rating for the years?

SPEAKER_01 7:14

We'll s we'll save. I think well it's up to you. Do you want to hear it now? I was thinking save it for the we can save it.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

That's totally fine. Okay, yeah. No, it's all good.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Yeah, so I I uh yeah, full disclosure, I used to rate them like the week that we would see them or something and keep a bullet journal of it. So I have my rating from 2018 when I saw it. Um, and I'll give maybe something very similar, probably, uh by the end of this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

You'll have definitive proof of how well it held up.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

I will, yes. Okay, so Black Klansman came out in 2018, starring Adam Driver, Alec Baldwin for the shortest part. I had forgotten he was in this. John David Washington, Topha Grace, Isaiah Whitlock Jr., Ryan Eggold, uh Jasper Paikonen. Paikonin, I think. Uh, it's Finnish. Director Spike Lee. Uh, if you don't know about Spike Lee, uh he was born in Atlanta but moved to Brooklyn. A lot of his films center around New York. Um, movies set around the black experience, either modern day or historically. I think we both know enough about it. I didn't want to like do a whole bio, you know, about him, but I did not know that his production company was named 40 Acres in a Mule Filmworks.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Yeah, I I know I'd read that. Um, I was looking into him. I was trying to see if I had seen any other full movies that he'd done. And I don't think I actually have. Like I know I've seen like either. I've seen clips, I've seen bits and pieces. I know it's included in film studies courses. I think, like, especially on IMDb, I did not realize how many music videos he'd directed. Oh, I did not see that. So many. Um, a lot for Michael Jackson, a lot for Prince, um, a lot of different ones. Um that's cool. Yeah, but yeah, it was it and it's so funny because I was like, I must have seen a Spike Lee movie. And just scrolling through, I was like, shit, I haven't seen any of these. But it's like he is he has such a distinct, like cinematic style and like vision and like you know, the way like even just like the way scenes are shot and everything. It's just it's very specifically him. But it's yeah, it it was it was nice to finally make sure I actually saw a movie of his. I was like, okay, how yeah, I need to go back and see more now.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Well, and he's also, I think, so outspoken in like in general. Yes. So it's like I know his name, I know things about him without knowing that I hadn't seen any other of his movies besides this one. Yes. Um, and yeah, you're right. Uh, as far as like trademarks, he does uh characters usually address cameras at some point. Although I'm not sure this exactly happened in this one, usually involved baseball or New York. Uh, and then one of his director trademarks is on the dollies where people look like they are on platforms that look like they're floating. Yeah, uh, which happened literally at the end of this movie. So it did happen. But um oh, and then and then a fun fact about Spike Lee. Uh, for all you rent heads, it is mentioned in one of the songs. I hear I hear Spike Lee shooting down the street. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

So I was like, oh yeah, we're in New York. That is immediately I always kind of think that it's just like, oh yes, the musical tick that it just uh spike it just hits that little, oh yeah, this is from a this is from a musical. It's like of course it is.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Yeah. Well, it was like a fun fact under his bio and IMDB, and I was like, oh yeah, forget about that.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

That's so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

So I was like, I'm gonna have to I have to say it.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

I mean one simply must.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Uh so writers, we've got a lot of writers based on the actual book by the actual Ron Stalworth. We've got Charlie Watchtel, uh, literally, this is the biggest credit he has for writing. David Rabinowitz, uh, again, this is the biggest thing he's ever written for, very small writing credits, and then Kevin Wilmot, who uh wrote and directed CSA The Confederate States of America, which is a satirical fake documentary about if the South had won the Civil War in 2004.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

I've heard of that. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Yeah, and so he's written other, you know, very racially charged movies, so very in line with Spike Lee's. Um he also wrote The Five Bloods, which is about uh four black veterans returning to Vietnam to get the remains of their squad leader and the gold he helped them hide. Okay. I was like, okay, like that sounds dope as hell. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

I might have to watch that. Yeah. With this, like, I a lot of my like editorial notes as I was taking that, I was like, I want to look up everything about this movie, but I can't. I was like, how much of it? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, there's anything. No, not at all. No, like as far as like the fact that it's like based on a book for like by the actual guy. Like, I I love that. Like, I I think a lot of it was like, okay, this like dialogue. I'm like, okay, how like enough of the dialogue. I'm just like, how real is this? And I didn't want to look up I either because I wanted to be surprised or because I would get mad.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

So um I have not looked, it didn't devolve like how much there are things that are made up. Like this is not a direct one-to-one of what was in Ron's book. Ron was involved, it sounds like Ron was contacted a lot, and he's still alive. I'm probably still alive now. Um, but was you know, around when they were making it, literally. John David Washington talked to Ron like about parts of the film and stuff. So um, and actually, uh the real Ron Stalworth uh really wanted Denzel Washington to play himself, and then was like, okay, his son's just as you know, because John David Washington is his son. Yeah. Um so he was like, Oh, well, that's and then was very excited to find out that his son was playing him.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Oh, that's really cool. Also, so real quick, I recognized John David Washington. I was like, okay, this guy. And then I was like, what have I seen him in? No idea. I haven't seen him in a single other thing. And then I started digging, I was like, wait, no, he's Denzel Washington's son. Oh, wait, he he used to be in the NFL. I was like, I all right. Like, oh, I did not look up a lot about him. That's funny. I don't know. I was like, I don't know why I know this guy. Like, I don't know what I don't know. I I feel like maybe I saw like pictures for like uh like trailers and stuff for Tenet for a thousand years because I feel that I feel like that movie was like almost about to come out for like five years, and then I I never I never saw it and I don't I don't know anything about it. I heard it was exhausting. Um yeah, but I don't know, but yeah, I was just like, I don't know why I recognize you, but no, but I loved him though. I really liked him in this in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

He was great, so funny, and like when he was having fun, he's so cute. He's I was like him and Patrice. I was like, oh my god, you're adoring. He's great, yeah. He's got he's got such range, it's great. He really did, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. And and Spike Lee was also a writer. Like oh we know a lot about Spike Lee. He was the fourth, one, two, three, four, fourth writer. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

So I looked it up. There were also like a ton of producers on this, like, including I did not even get into the producers. No, it's okay. So I had glanced at it, and I know like it, I think there were a couple people, it was Spike Lee, but it was also uh Jordan Peel, who also had Get Out. Oh no, am I am I jumping ahead? Go ahead. No, no, it was the same. Go for it. No, Jordan uh Jordan Peel was also one of the producers, and this is the same year that Get Out came out. Um, and also Jason Bloom uh of Bloom House, the big horror studio, um, is one of the producers as well. That's it. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

That was those are the only things I know.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Well, along with that, uh Jordan Peel was the one who pitched Spike Lee on this movie. He said, you know, Black Man infiltrates KKK. Spike Lee didn't believe it was a real story. And then once he found out it that it was, he was like, I have to make this movie.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

That's so cool. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yeah, yeah. So Jordan Peel pitched him on it in general. Oh, and then also uh Spike Lee is the second black American to be nominated for producing, writing, and directing in the same year, and the first one was Jordan Peel, the year before. Amazing! Good for them. So, uh, let's see, what other fun facts? We've got 46 overall wins and 215 nominations.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

We have one Oscar win for best adapted screenplay, so it was for writing.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

We got Oscar Noms for uh best music written, best motion picture, uh directing, supporting actor, Adam Driver, and film editing.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Let's see, 7.5 rating on IMDb. Uh, so pretty good. Yeah. And this is uh, so there's gonna be I I need to organize these next time. But they are like, I think a lot of these are like differences. So for example, David Duke did not discover Ron was a black man until 2006, when a Miami Herald reporter contacted him for his side of the story. No, so it might have been ice like after the book, maybe. I haven't looked it up, but like yeah. Oh wow, however funny that phone call was did not happen. Yeah. Oh god.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yeah, that wild. Oh, to be a fly on the wall during that phone call, though.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Yeah, or if it was in person with the reporter, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Yeah, it's like, were you aware? What?

SPEAKER_01 16:35

What amazing. Let's see. According to the editor, there are no deleted scenes for the movie. So they used everything that they shot. Amazing. Let's see. It says, in reality, uh, because a lot of this is like from Ron, he never used a quote unquote white voice on the phone. He literally used his real voice because he could have been caught if he slipped up. Yeah. Um, and then in real life, when his colleagues questioned him about it, and he was like, What literally, like in the movie, like, how does it make it any different? Like, what are you what do you mean? Yeah. Um, and then they like they wouldn't like come out and say it. And so like it way worked anyway. Like, he did it.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Gosh, that honestly, I love that even more.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

That's fantastic. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like in re yeah, how is that gonna work if you've got the the conf the confidence of racism?

SPEAKER_00 17:27

It's like, no, no, no. What what do you mean? It's different. No, say say the quiet part, say say the part you're not saying. What is that?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Yeah, what do you mean? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, explain yourself. So the guy who plays Felix, uh Jasper, is Finnish, but was so determined to get the role that he went into the audition speaking in American accent and then revealed to Spikely later that he was Finnish, and he was so shocked that he gave him the role because he fully believed that he was an American.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Yeah, there's something about like honestly, like the haircut and the mustache, like that a hundred percent. I'm like, yeah, like you they they styled you perfectly for this. Like, I would not, I didn't even question it.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

No, me either. And and uh he lived in uh New York for a while because it says uh growing up in New York being Finnish, he experienced a lot of uh types of racism. So he said it really prepared him for this role. Oh, that's amazing as an actor. So yeah, and I mean, yeah, he was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

He w he was so good at like he was awful, but he was so so good at so you see why when I see these actors again, I'm like, okay, so I know we talked about this. I was gonna ask which actor it was that you were like, Well, fuck this guy.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

He was actually it was actually Walter. I was wondering, okay. I have seen him in other stuff, and but but looking back at it, I'm like, Walter was not the worst one. Like, what? You know, you're not the most fucked up guy. You're still a fucked up guy, but like Yeah, so I'm like, maybe because this was it was my first time watching it. And like, I mean, there were still definitely parts that like my body was just getting so angry and uncomfortable. Uh-huh. Um, but then you know, you'd be juxtaposed with something comedic or something different, you know, and not so hateful, but still serious. And so it was, yeah, it was it was a lot. I'm sure you can speak more to that seeing it for the first time.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Oh, yeah. No, and and it's there there are some like really good points of like cutting that tension, but it's also like they're so good at letting that tension build so that when it is finally cut, it's like, oh, okay. It's like it's that like you can feel the like sigh of relief of like, okay, that that tense moment is over. But it's like you can't just like uh like going all the way to make it actually very stressful and then like pulling that away. It's like it's it's good, like it's good, yeah. It's it's done very well. It's a good fucking movie.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

I've really liked it. I have I have a few more facts. Um so and I didn't know some of this about the films that they had added in there, like um the first one in the the beginning of the movie was from Gone with the Wind.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yes. I was wondering about what that was from. I my my first note, like with that still, I was like, is this Birth of the Nation? That's also another movie I haven't seen. Yeah, I know we get to that one. Yeah. Did you watch Gone with the Wind with mom a thousand years ago? Okay. No, I never saw that. I think I was too young or something. I know mom and I watched it at one point because she had the two VHS of it. It's you know, it's a beautiful movie, but it my god, it's just it woof.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

I read a whole article about after watching this movie because I wanted to make sure which parts were gone with the wind and which parts were the birth of a nation. Yeah. And it was like a whole thing of like, why, despite being touted as a really, really great movie, it's like Gone with the Wind is not a good, like, it's not good for people. It's just not like it's it's not a good thing to have out there for people to watch and like emulate and and romanticize and sounds.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Yeah, maybe not. It's like, hey, this movie sucks all around.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yes. So going with uh The Birth of a Nation, uh, when Spike Lee was at NYU, it was taught as like part of film study and stuff, and uh was was involved in part of the uh the KKK's 20th century rebirth. And so Spike Lee was like so mad that we weren't like acknowledged, it was just like taught and just be like, that's it. Like we're not gonna talk about how serious this is and anything. Yeah. So he made a movie, like a documentary in response, a short film called The Answer, uh, which there wasn't a lot of information about it. He made it in school, and it looked like he had um he almost got expelled for it. Um, but it went to like a board review. View and like he kind of skimmed by. Amazing. But he has a long history with that movie. And so the fact that he put it into his own film, I think is very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Oh, that's amazing. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Yes. Um let's see. Uh John David Washington said, of course, the banquet was the hardest scene for him to film. Uh and this is uh, it says that afterwards he talked to Ron and was like, How did you do this? you know, in actual like reality, like this was really, really hard to do. So it's the hardest for him to do. Topher Grace said playing David Duke made him so depressed that he made his own project of editing all the Hobbit movies into a single two-hour movie.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Oh my god. Okay, I have heard about Topher Grace's Cadetown movie. I didn't know that this was this was why. Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

This is why, because he was so sad about David Tooth.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

He needed a project. Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

He did, and he was not allowed to tell anyone during filming or anything that he was cast as David Duke. Like obviously the pilpit on the film, but like as far as like when it was sh being shot or anything, he couldn't tell anyone.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Yeah, oh no, that's that's not casting that you would want publicized. Like outside. Well, I think I think outside of like, oh yeah, we need to talk to this guy about playing. It's like, yeah, that's yeah, man. And he was great, but my god, it just exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

And I think uh I should have written this down that he had another quote as like it was uh like how charismatic he was because you know he watched a lot of like videos of the real David Duke and everything, and he was just like, it was crazy, like how charismatic he was, and and just like the yeah, so yeah, like every every line, it's like it's so like matter-of-fact and personable and so friendly, yeah, and it just makes your fucking skin crawl. Yeah, yes. Let's see. Uh oh, do do do do do uh so another thing the bomb plot at the Black Student Union is fiction for the movie, but the actual KKK had plans to attack a local gay bar, which they did bring up in the movie, the gay bar. Yeah, yeah. Um Patrice is a fictional person. Fair. She is not real. Um, I really want to read this book now, I think. Yeah to be like what actually happened. That sounds fun, yeah. Yes. I'd love to learn about that. David Duke called the real David Duke called the real Ron Stalworth to express concern over his portrayal in the film. Said it was like very cartoonish.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Said that he respected Spike Lee as a director, but wasn't pleased that the film did not follow events of the book.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Into crazy. That's it like wild.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

He called him. Yeah. Like I God. Right? The real person. The audacity. The gall of this. Well, I mean, you see later on. I understand, but Jesus Christ. Yes. Because my last, I mean, these are I say fun facts, these are not fun facts. Um, the film is dedicated to Heather Hayer, who uh was fatally hit by uh a car protesting the Unite the Right rally on August 12th, 2017 in Charlottesville, Virginia. Uh the film opened uh in the US on August 10th, 2018 to mark the first anniversary of the rally and her death. Oh wow. Yes. And for those who don't remember, and I terribly did not remember, I re once I saw it, but this was a huge thing in the news. It was a white supremacist rally whose goal was to oppose the proposed removal of the Robert E. Lee statue from the former Lee Park. And then the removal, uh and the removal was sparked by a Charleston church shooting in 2015, where a white supremacist killed nine people at a black church. So totally within reason of removing the statue, but the rally got violent and Heather uh died, and many other people were injured. Um so and you see actual footage of that at the end, the dedication is at the end, and and and uh the at the time president and current president was also quoted in the film, and we can get to that as well.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Um I yeah, that I loved that this movie ended with that. Yes. And especially imagining seeing this in 2018. Oh my I really love it. Watching it in 2026 and so much of this still being relevant is infuriating, and we'll get to it. But it's I feel like especially with Charlottesville, like that is immediately it was like seeing that and the footage, like it was all coming back to me while I too watched me too. Like I was just like, yes, this and this is what happened, and then this, and like like even like the the clip of Trump where I was like, Yes, I know I know this one, I know these lines, they're bad. Me too, yeah. Yeah, it yeah, just all of it. Yeah, it's masterful filmmaking, like incredible, like great choices to include it, but god damn.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Those are my not so fun facts.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

I love it. I love some fun facts. I love honestly, I love all of them. I I might have to watch this book too or read the book too. I'm I yeah, I'm really interested in that.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Yeah, I'm like, what did happen? What what happened?

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Yeah, I think like especially like some like in like specific lines. I'm just like, there's there's no way you just come up with this. It's like this has to be like a real thing that like David Duke hypothetically said. And I'm just like, I want it to be true, and I also don't want it to be true. Either one sucks, and I don't know, but this is great screenwriting, so I don't know. All right, well, let's let's get into it. Um let's do it. All right, so we open on footage of as you say gone with the wind, and this is where where I wrote, Oh fuck, is this birth of a nation? This is another movie I haven't seen. It is Gone with the Wind. It's been too long since I've seen Gone of the Wind. Never watching that again. Um, but it pans out to the Confederate flag, and then we get Alec Baldwin um as she says, God save the Confederacy, God save the Confederacy, and we get Alec Baldwin as the voice of the KKK, um, Dr. Kennebrew Beauvergaard. And there's just my God, I I told Emily before we started, I have nine pages of notes, and so many of them are quotes, and most of these quotes just make my skin crawl. Um, the first one, the first one that I wrote down, we are under attack. We are living in an era marked by the spread of integration and miscegenation. All of the just the the disgusting vitriol that you're used to hearing at this point. Um talking about the integration of schools, um, the the final nail in a black coffin towards America becoming a mongrel nation, talking about how we had a great way of life when we had white Protestant values. And it just him like reading, like basically recording like a propaganda video, essentially. And it's just it's such a good way to start this movie because it is like it's him like doing test footage basically. Like he's it's also comedic, like you know, weird. He's like clearing his throat, he's like yes, ending, like he's he's like rewriting them as he's right as he's going. Um, but it's like it's specifically, it's like this is someone who takes himself very seriously, and an organization that takes itself very seriously, and it's being presented as something that we don't really need to take that seriously because he's kind of a fuck up. So that immediate presentation, I'm like, okay, this is this is what we're getting into. This is the vibe.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

And I think it's also important to note. Um, I mean, I I don't know what they're teaching in history, I don't know what anybody knows, but he also did specifically point out uh about Jewish people as well. Yes. And so that you know plays a lot into this movie. So it's like, oh no, it's it's not just black people. Right, it's yes, it's also, you know, so uh it's it's other other people as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Yes, no, good point. I truly I wrote that down and I didn't even mention because you didn't know. Yeah. No, I can't no, but like after I've seen this movie, I'm like, yeah, duh, I should have said that. Um yeah, but yeah, so we get um we get this beautiful pan over of of just the mountains. This is in Colorado. It's gorgeous. Colorado Springs, Colorado. We get these great landscapes. It's gorgeous out there. We get the title, we say uh this is based on a true story, which I love. I don't think I fully knew that it was like a true story. Like I think I knew it was like like loosely adapted, but I I was like, oh shit, this is like okay, yeah. Yeah, like I don't know if I remembered that. Um, the one thing that drove me crazy about this movie, it took fucking forever to get anybody's name. I oops, yes. No, no, you don't have to it's not your fault. You're fine. Like, I just I'm sorry. I don't know, you're fine. I don't remember you get Ron's name finally at the in the subtitle at the end of my first page of notes. Um, but so we get um uh the Colorado Springs Police Force. We get we get the the banner for the Colorado Springs Police Force, specifically encouraging minorities to apply to work on the police force. So we get a younger black man with a fantastic Afro, um, who is uh Ron Stalworth. Stalworth, my God, I wrote it down somewhere, and I think it's so far down in the notes. Um, yeah, we got Ron Stalworth. He walks up or he is walking up to the building, um, and he's being interviewed by an older white man in a police uniform and Isaiah Willick Jr., um, who is delightful. He is being questioned basically about just his lifestyle. It's like, oh, why didn't you go to Vietnam? Uh, how do you feel about Vietnam? Do you do drugs? And then very pointedly, he's asked, hey, how do you feel how do you how would you uh react if you were discriminated against or called slurs by other cops? And his first question is, would that happen? Um and and it's immediately a very naive question to ask. Um, it is sort of laughed off that he would even ask, oh, would that happen? Um he would be the first black cop in the city. Um, so he's being told right off the bat that he needs to be able to have a thick skin and let all of these aggressions go and just be chill about it. Um the uh Chief Bridges, uh, the uh older white man says he's he'll have he'll have Ron's back, but he can only do so much. Um, so most of it's gonna be up to Ron. So we get later on, Ron has taken the job. He is working down in the records room. Um it sucks. He is talked down to take an advantage, like just sort of treated as just like just an office employee, like a guy who works at the station, but not an actual officer.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Real quick, I don't know if this is relevant, but it never really said a year. But this is set around like 1971, 1972. Yes, so perfect. Not that far off.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

No, no, thank you. I truly, I think after a while I was I was trying to do the math because I was like, I don't really know. And I was like, I feel like it's the 70s, but then also but also for me, like seeing the idea that David Duke is still alive and still just looks the way he does and isn't crumbling into ash. I was like, why? How long ago was this? And like I truly, I think that was the thing that that fucked me up the most.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

I was like, this doesn't check out, that's 50 years. The fictional man is still around, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Exactly. I was just like, no, you should be dissolving into dust, like the cryptkeeper. Why? Yes. Um, unfortunately, he is not. But yeah, so so we see Ron going back up to the chief and the sergeant. He says he wants to be put undercover. Um, they're put off immediately. Like he's not he's not gonna get that job. We get him back down in the record room. Um, we get uh officer Landers, who is our our main shitty cop in this precinct, comes down looking for a a toad, a uh suspect or a you know, suspect someone in the records. Um and Ron pushes back and he's like, I have people here. Do you want to see one of those? And is just immediately confrontational with Landers. Um, doesn't tolerate, you know, the immediate dismissal.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Because it it seems specifically, because they showed pictures of some of the files, they're using that term for black men.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Yes, exactly. Um yeah, and it's just one after another, like looking, you know, looking up uh suspects. Um so then Landers, you know, tensely leaves, and then Ron immediately just does a bunch of karate moves. And I kind of love that he does that whenever he's just he has so much energy and he's like he's mad, but he's also like, I need to be doing something. This is not doing anything. Um I I love that it just I think he does a great job. I really enjoy him. This was a fun movie, it was a lot, but it was a very enjoyable movie as well. Yeah, so we get um Ron is woken up by a phone call. He uh is being called by the chief to do an undercover job for narcotics. So he is up, he rushes into work, he is still late. There also in the room is we learn their names eventually. Um, it's Flip and Jimmy, um, or the uh two other guys who are gonna get him ready for this undercover job. So the chief tells him that there is a quote black radical Stokely Carmichael, um, who's a former Black Panther who's gonna give a speech. Um the chief uh chief uh no, I said the chief agrees. I don't know what I said he agrees with. I don't know. I don't know why I wrote that.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Well, I just wrote down that he said we don't want him to get into the minds of the people here and stir them up. And I was like, Yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Yeah, yeah. Basically, he he doesn't want he he doesn't want uh Carmichael to give people ideas essentially. So he wants Ron to go and basically just just monitor people's reactions, see what's going on. Um, so at this point I was still writing Adam Driver because I didn't have a name name yet. Um so so flip, so flip says, well, hang on, we need to put a wire on him first. So uh Jimmy um is uh Flip's sort of right hand guy. Um my note was this guy sounds exactly like Steve Bishemi. And then I was like, oh fuck, it's Steve Bishemi's brother. I was like, fun fact. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I did not know he had a brother and that he acted, which is great. Um, but yeah, so basically uh Jimmy's like, okay, well, what what would you do if this happened? What would, you know, what would you do if someone got in your face? What they're both sort of quizzing Ron on, you know, how he would handle different scenarios, his first time doing an undercover job. Ron does not seem fazed by it. He's like, I'm ready, let's go. So we get Ron walking up to this huge line outside of this meeting hall. Um, we see a row of people, we see banners hanging in a window or hanging like outside the building. Um, he goes straight up to the front door and starts talking to a group of people gathered outside, specifically starts talking to a young woman. We learn her name is Patrice later. She asks if he's here to see Brother Kwame Tore talk, and he is kind of surprised by the name. And she says, Oh, um, it's Carmichael, but he changed his name after he spent time in Africa. So at this point, I said, Ron, is this the first time I've gotten his name? And it was in a subtitle. What's going on? Um, so now I know his yeah, exactly. Yeah. So um, so he starts uh making conversation with Patrice while he's there. Um, she is uh Colorado College's black student union president, and she is the one who actually organized the speech and got Kwame to um, you know, attended the first place. Ron tries to uh see if he can get in because he's with the president. She's like, No, you're not going to the back of the line, which I immediately, I'm like, good for you, Patrice. I like you.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Because her friends were like, Who the hell is this? We don't know.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Yeah, immediately was like, Can we help you? And he's like, Hey. And she's like, No, no, no. Um, yeah, she was she was great. I loved her. Um Patrice. Oh, yeah. Yes. I was trying to figure out what I knew her from. Do you know the first thing that she was in? She was in the new um, the first Tom Holland Spider-Man. She was no. Yeah. She was the popular girl. Yes, she was um uh Michael Keene. She's not with his daughter. Yes. What? Oh man. I was like, why do I know you? I know your face. She's so pretty. She's she's great. I love her.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Good for her for rain. Oh man, like that. No. That's so cool. I did not know that. I should have put that together. Okay, fine. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

No, you're fine. Um, that's that's my superpower. It's IMDB. But yeah, so the next scenes we're getting are inside of the uh meeting hall um during Kwame's speech. Um, and he is specifically addressing a room full of not just black college students, but there are, you know, older people there as well. It's just completely full packed room of audience members. Um, he says that specifically as college students um and as you know, people who are educated, um, intellectuals should define, you know, define beauty and not strive specifically for white standards of beauty. Um, you get you get these really great close-ups of audience members' faces. Everyone is engaged, everyone is interested in what he has to say. Um, but it's also this is where you get that it's not just not just college-age people, that there are a lot like a wide group of of population here. Um, and Ron is uh is kind of into it as well. Like Ron is listening, but you can tell at a certain point that Ron is is understanding and connecting to what Kwame is saying.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

He does seem a little uncomfortable or hesitant to act along with everyone else, though.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Yeah, I think I think he he is a little bit more reserved, but you definitely see him it at first. I couldn't tell of him like nodding and talking back. I couldn't tell if it was just like performative of like I gotta blend in.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

But I think it was, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

Yeah, I think I feel like definitely at the start it's like it's very you know nodding because everyone else is nodding and making sure I blend in, but later on, like you get it to like you can tell that Ron is like connecting more with what is actually being said. And we get the the line from Kwame saying, um, getting the group to stop believing the lie that black people can't do the same things that white people do unless a white person helps them, which also is you know something that ends up connecting the entire movie. Um but uh Kwame is encouraging everyone to unite and organize to fight racism and their oppressors, um, talking about or how black people are being shot down in the streets by white racist cops, and it cuts immediately to Jimmy and Flip, who are listening in the car, and they're like, whoop, oop, okay. Um Kwame is is calling for action, calling for retribution, talks about protesting the Vietnam War as well. And this is where I said, God, this is too fucking timely. Um, it's all hitting very close to home. But uh Kwame says specifically, you know, the Vietnam War is not about us. He says, I would rather see a brother kill a white racist cop than a Vietnamese. And we cut back to Jimmy and flip in the car. Because at least they have a reason. Yes, at least they have a reason. Um and he he ends Kwame ends his entire speech with something that he wants everyone in attendance to ask themselves, which is if I am not for myself, who will be? If I am for myself alone, who am I? If not now, when? And if not you, who? And I fucking love that. And I hope that that's a real line from this speech. I want to read this book now. I'm really excited. Um that is from something.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Hold on. That was one of the notes. Really? Uh the fun, yes. One of the fun facts. Fun facts, yeah. My not so fun, fun facts. Oh, it's from a Jewish text. Yeah, I wanted to find the name of it or something, but yeah, it's from it's from a Jewish text.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Um, it's uh Rabbi Hillel. Yeah. I'm trying to I don't know anything about that. Um, it's from the Torah. Like it's not just like one specific guy, I think.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

Yeah, uh circa 110 BCE to 10 CE. Yeah. Okay. So um yes, it is it it uh so it it could very well have been what was actually said. Yeah. Um, because it is a direct quote from something else. Except for the all-power to all the people.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Yes. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so then that's that's the close of the speech. And at this point, like Ron is like joining in the chanting with everyone. Like he's, you know, seems really engaged with what what Kwame is saying. Um, so we get the sort of reception line at the end of the the speech. I was gonna say rally, but it's like, you know, kind of that. Um at the end of the speech. Um, so Ron asks if Kwame really thinks that a war between whites and blacks is coming. Um and Kwame sort of cryptically says to arm himself. He's like, something is coming, you need to be ready. Um but quietly, he doesn't say he leans into Ron and says Yes, yeah, very, very quietly, which means the wire can hear it, but it doesn't mean that he's you know, that's not his call to arms to everyone. It's just to Ron who asked that. So once he's outside the meeting hall, Ron meets up with Patrice, he asks her out and she says, I'm busy, I gotta take Kwame to his hotel. But if you want to meet up later, I'm going to this bar. So then we get, you know, Ron is is gonna meet up with with Patrice. Um, and then we get Ron is at the bar, Patrice gets there and meets him, and she says, You'll never believe what happened to me. She got pulled over, taking Kwame to his hotel. Um, at this point I didn't know his name, but uh Landers is the main cop um who is just has everyone out of the car, is is, you know, essentially just threatening everyone for no reason. Um, specifically tells Patrice that uh she needs to get Kwame out of town before sunrise, um, and then immediately feels her up. And when Ron pushes it, Patrice is like like Ron asks if she got his name, and Patrice sort of waves it off. She's like, it, you know, it was it was scary, it was a lot. I just kind of brushes it off a little bit of it is what it is. Um, but just that it was a shitty situation. Ron says, Hey, we should dance and take your mind off of it. And we honestly, it seems to help. And she we get a cute little dance sequence um of them genuinely having fun, which I enjoyed. Um a little long. Yeah, a little long. I was like, is this going somewhere? Do I need to be on the lookout for something? And I was like, nope, it's just a fun little dance sequence. I just, you know, I enjoy it. It was they they deserve to have a good time, honestly. In in these, you know, in the shitty fucking things that are happening to people in this movie. It's nice for them to have a little oasis of of a dance break. But yeah, so then we are back in the station the next day. Um Ron is giving his report of what the vibe was basically. He said that people were engaged and interested in what Kwame was saying, but the vibe was not violent. It wasn't like an uprising was about to start. Um, and Jimmy and Flip agree with him and support him. Um, so the chief is sort of inclined to agree or like inclined to, you know, believe him, especially when he gets that support from Jimmy and Flip. Ron uh corrects the chief when he uses Kwame's previous name. Um no one really cares, which is frustrating. Um, but Ron also asks um if they heard about Patrice getting pulled over, you know, if there's any more information about that. Uh the chief immediately hands waves over it and it's like, oh, you're talking to her. Um basically just tells uh Ron he needs to stay professional and and not uh let the woman that he's talking to uh, you know, get in the way of anything. So it his concerns are completely disregarded in that case. But separately, Ron is being transferred to intelligence, a separate department. Um, and intelligence is really quiet. It's a very small room with like seven people in it, I believe. Two of which are Jimmy and Flip. Um, so Ron is uh in in this, you know, much much more quiet room. Um he's reading a newspaper. There is an ad okay, and here's the thing there is an ad in the newspaper for the Ku Klux Klan with a phone number. And Ron goes, all right, cool. So decides to call, leave a voicemail with a very very specifically a put upon white sounding quote unquote voice that does not sound like his natural speech pattern, um, asking for more information. Reading material. Yeah, reading material. He hangs up and immediately gets a call back from uh Walter. And Walter asks what his story is, what his deal is, and Ron lists every slur in the book and says, But I especially hate black people. And Walter's like, oh hell yeah, man. We shouldn't meet up.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

Yeah, but but he says it's from the organization. Yes, which this is a goof because everyone's like, Why would you call it, you know, be so hush-hush that it's the organization if you literally put a newspaper ad for the KKK? Yes! So that is it's that's stupid. It's just it happens. Okay, okay, good. It's definitely like people are like, why? Yeah, it's definitely like, why did this happen?

SPEAKER_00 48:23

That 100% was a note. It's like, yeah, we can't have people knowing. And I'm like, so you bought a newspaper ad? Excuse me.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

Yeah, I think we're supposed to hand wavy that away.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

I well, I I did not.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

Um yes, yeah, but my favorite is seeing everyone turn in the room to look at Ron while he's saying all this.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

It's an incredible scene where Ron is is listing off every slur in the book, every single race or type of person that he could possibly hate, and every every single person in this intelligence room is turning to stare at him and going what and and wondering what the deal is. Um, so at the end of this this list of of people that Ron hates, uh Walter says, Great, uh, we're very interested. You sound like our comic kind of guy. Um, we should meet up. Um, and then immediately Flip says, Did I just hear you use your real name? And Ron goes, Oh, motherfucker. I I laughed so hard immediately. So bad. I was like, this this is perfect, perfect comedic timing. It was great. So Ron goes to the sergeant saying, Hey, here's what's going on. They want to meet, they want to meet me. Um, the sergeant says, Well, you probably shouldn't go to that. Don't do that. Well, don't do that. Um, but Ron is Ron is is onto something. Um, he says that in, you know, yeah, he shouldn't go to the meeting. Um, but what he wants to do is keep being the phone voice and get a white officer to be him in real life. And then we get this great quote of with the right white man, we can do anything, which I I think is a wonder. It's such a good interpretation of, you know, black man can do anything a white man can do as long as a white man's helping him. He's like, Yeah, okay, bet. Like, let's let's see how that works. So uh the sergeant is is okay as that. So uh flip, Adam Driver's character, is gonna be is gonna be the face of Ron. Ron Stalworth. Um, so Ron is quizzing him about quote unquote their life trivia, where you know, what their commute is, what radio stations they listen to. Jimmy is is sort of playing along, which is very fun. Um love them. Yeah, I I the three of them together, I'm like, this is fun. I like these parts, it's real good, it's enjoyable. Um, yeah, they're talking about, you know, it's like, oh, I you know, flip the channel whenever David Bowie comes on. Jimmy is like, I love David Bowie. And Ron says, Yeah, I do too. He's great. But you can't say that. Exactly. It's like, but Ron can't think that. Flip says, I always wanted to be black. All my heroes are black, listing off sports icons, including OJ Simpson. OJ Simpson. I was like, a great poll for 2018. Um, yeah. Yeah, uh, but then Ron is uh coaching Flip on his dialect to make sure basically synchronizing their uh diction and their dialect, um, having him uh read out an entire the entire uh lyric ending in say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud. And Jimmy starts chanting it along with them at the end. It's he they're they're all having a great time. There you get this great shot of of thr outside of this office, there's another guy in an in an adjoining room who just looks so annoyed by the whole thing. It's great. Um but we also get offhand comment of Jimmy saying, Hey, uh telling Flip to take off his quote, Jewish necklace. And Flip says it's a star of David, it's not a Jewish necklace. Um, so then we get a little bit more of Flip's uh character there. Um then Ron goes, Flip, you Jewish? And Flip goes, I don't know, am I? Yeah, just very blasé about it. Very weird. Yeah, uh, but yeah, so now it is it is meeting time. So skin in the game. Yeah, yeah, we're here. Flip has driven out in a truck. Um, there's a guy who gets out of the truck. His name is Felix. Um, he knocks on the window of Flip's truck. Flip gets out, um, asks if it's if his name is Walter. Um, his name is it's not Walter. He says, There's been a change of plans, and he tells Flip to get in his truck, and Flip offers to follow him. Felix says, No, that's not how this works. So Ron and Jimmy are watching from their car and start following. When Flip gets into Felix's car, they start driving. Uh, Ron and Jimmy are following them. Flip is making small talk with Felix. Um, this is where we get this is where we get the no, it's not the clan, it's the organization. You can't just say the clan. And then I said, but they had a fucking newspaper ad that said the whole name. But yeah, this is where we get a lot of like the first taste of like the the clan lore from Felix. Um he says the invisible empire has managed to stay invisible for a reason, which I all right. But uh at this point, uh Felix notices that they're that they're being followed. Uh he says, Oh, hey, there's a gun under the passenger seat, flips like, great, super cool. Thanks, thanks for the gun. Um, yeah, but then also the thing that drove me crazy about, you know, they managed to stay invisible for the for a reason. Um, they pull up to a bar with a neon Confederate flag in the window, which is subtle with a capital B.

SPEAKER_01 53:44

I feel like it's supposed to be like out in the middle of nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 53:48

Yeah, it does, it does look very middle of nowhere. However, you still see a neon like a neon sign. Like a neon sign cuts through the middle of nowhere, I think. So they go inside and Flip uh gets to meet Walter, who is playing pool inside. Um Walter introduces himself. Um it says, Hey, you know, we we got a lot in common. Uh he says that he was shot by a black man and his wife was assaulted and no one was convicted. But then he also says, Oh, you know, now we have we got to go to school with them and we have to be nice and and not call them black anymore, like, you know, change our terminology. So it's really just running the gamut of like large potential grievances to the real petty bullshit, which I feel like is just the the full scope of of I can't call them derogatory names.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

Exactly. Man, that stinks.

SPEAKER_00 54:37

This this affects me personally. It's like, all right. I hate that for me. I know. Um, but yeah, so Flip asks uh what they do. Ivanhoe, who is our dumb hick character, who is really just a big dummy. Yeah, he's he's comic relief, or he's information that shouldn't be shared, basically. Um, so he's he's a useful tool in in a lot of a lot of ways. Um, but Ivanhoe says uh uh cross burnings and marches and stuff, real big plans. Um, but he said, uh this is gonna be a big year for them, and everyone's like, shut the fuck up, Ivanhoe. Stop talking. Like, nope. Yeah, he's like, yeah, it just mimes a bomb blowing up, and it flips like, huh, I wonder what that's about. Yeah, uh, but this is where um Walter says, Well, uh the organization is strictly nonviolent. Um, so on, you know, quote unquote on paper, it's nonviolent. Flip gets led to another back room. Um, he flip reasonably is like, where are we going? Felix is like, you ask a lot of questions. So Felix is immediately like on Flip's ass, basically, about this, just skeptical of everything. Apparently, by showing up, Flip has passed the test. Um, he gets handed uh membership paperwork, he's gonna get a card, um, and then he will be able to participate in programs. And I said, This sounds like the Boy Scouts. This is bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

I I think, or maybe, maybe you're gonna get to it, but um, yeah, you're you're definitely right. Felix is like immediately suspicious. And is is this or does it later that he even asks if he's Jewish?

SPEAKER_00 56:10

Yes. Oh, that's like the next thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

Darn. Okay. You're fine. And I because I interrupted, I'm gonna say, this is where my note says, I forgot how this movie made me uncomfortable. Oh yeah. Because this is when you really get into like the I can't believe these people are saying these things so comfortably. Yes. And just so like they mean it in the worst way possible. And like, and even this is just acting, so it's like just the ick of like, this is real, like there are real people out there like that. I'm like, it makes me want to throw open my skin crawl at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Like, I just I I yeah, no, and you're a hundred percent right. It is like the oh no, like this is just like a nor like a normal person that quote unquote normal, but it's just like anyone that you are just interacting with, it's like, oh, these are like very strongly held beliefs. Like, you might not be a full fucking psychopath, like actively psychopath like Felix is, but it's like, no, it's like, well, we're we're just you know passively racist and xenophobic, like you know, we're non-violent, but you know, yeah, and it's and it's we hate them exactly, and especially with this, where it's like and we get we get into it so much more, and like there's a difference between Felix and Walter and and later uh David Duke. Um, you get that there's a difference between how they interact with Ron, who specifically it's like this is visually someone that we know is not one of us, quote unquote. It's like we know we don't like this guy for these reasons, but the fact that Flip just being a part of that group, it's the idea of being able to pass and like and that's still not being enough. Um, and it it's even scarier as something that's like, oh, well, you know, you I might not immediately know, but if I think you're this thing that I don't like, that's just as bad. In this case, it's it's flip being Jewish, but it's like, you know, the them talking about a gay bar being opened and how, you know, how that's a target, and it's any amount of like not immediately like visually clocked. And also it's something where, like, you know, if like uh Ron talks a little bit later about like, you know, black people with lighter skin being able to pass, it's like just because you can pass doesn't mean that at some point someone's gonna go, I don't know, that's still too close. I, you know, you're a target. Like that's still you passing is not enough for that. Um, and it's so fucked and it's so scary. It makes me feel bad about the world. And it just and it's it is something where like there are a lot of points in this movie where I was like, God, this is hitting really close to home. God, I hear this. Like, God, like we're not even just the 50 years later from when this movie took place, but the eight years later from when this movie was made. It's just like it, it's it's a lot. But yeah, so we after after they talk about the you know being able to participate in programs, um, there are there are monthly dues um or like yearly fees or whatever. Um it said the robes are robes and hoods aren't included because of fucking inflation. Uh, but this and this is where then this is where immediately uh Felix is is clocks him and says, You're not a Jew, are you Jews killed Christ? And Flip's like, what the fuck is your problem? Um and it and at this point, Walter is like, hey, hey, Flip, calm down. Like, hey man, like we're we're good, we're good. This this guy listed every slur. He he said all the slurs we like, he's fine, don't worry. Yeah, he said everything. Yeah, he said all the code words. So it's yeah, at this point, like already, like Walter is not taking Felix's concerns seriously, but he's not really doing much about it. The next thing we get is back at the station. Uh flip got accepted. He made it back home safely. Um, Ron is excited about where this is going and where the like Ron is like actually excited, which is is interesting. Um, the sergeant is asking how seriously they should take what this actual threat is. Um Ron says we should take it very seriously. These are actual, you know, threatening to do things. Flip is kind of skeptical. Flip says, well, you know, they like it was kind of vague, like they're like maybe we should monitor them, but it's not they're not really raising any major red flags. Like it's not an active threat necessarily. So this is where we start getting a little bit of the like in the first, like in that first instance of of you know, Ron being asked how seriously they should take something, like Flip has his back. In this case, they're a little bit more, a little bit more divided. So we get Ron on a date with Patrice, um, which is adorable. She talks about how, you know, how influential uh talking to Kwame was um when he was there for his speech. Um, specifically that he encouraged her, you know, as a as a stronger, younger woman to stand up against oppression and specifically against pigs. And Ron gets kind of uncomfortable. He's like, Oh, I don't really like that word. You're like, I don't like that. Yeah, and she's like, Why are you are you are you a pig? And he's like, Literally, yeah. It's like, am I are you asking if I'm a cop? And she's like, Well, are you? And he denies it. He says he is in construction. Uh, but this is also he Ron is sort of a little wishy-washy about how, like, politically how he feels. Um, he says, Do we always have to talk about politics? And she's like, I think is definitely it's him deflecting, but it is, you know, I think the only way for him to not, I don't want to say lead a double life, but I think the only way for him to be able to separate his relationship from like this blossoming relationship from his job is to compartmentalize and not talk about politics. But it's it does actually, you know, it affects both of them.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

Yeah, and it it it sounds like a lot of people like, oh, you're so political, like why does it always have to be? And she's like, Because it matters, yeah, you know, and so it's any other time or any other way in the world if he wasn't undercover with the KKK or whatever, like would he be saying that or would he actually be, you know, agreeing with her, like, yes, this does matter, and like, yeah, but like, you know, I can't I don't think yeah, he wants to keep talking about something where he has to lie.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:27

Exactly. Yeah, and I I think I think that's what I'm that's what I'm getting at. Where it's like the only like if they keep talking about politics, then he has to fudge more stuff, and then he has to keep track of even more lies because he's got real Ron and fake Ron. And then also it's like e even separately fake Ron. It's like, oh shit, okay. I think it is also like one of it's one of those examples where like you like you hear like especially in in 2026 about like like talking about it's like, oh, what radicalized you? It's like what made you like realize, oh, this is a big issue and I need to stand up and say something about it. And I think this is this is kind of that that sort of relationship where it's like someone who, you know, was already like before this movie started, we knew that Patrice was was radicalized and was ready to fight for a cause and strongly believed in in what she's you know promoting and talking about. And maybe we haven't necessarily seen um Ron radicalized, quote unquote, yet. Like he's still sort of, it's not that it's a game, but it's like, okay, I have a goal, I'm gonna figure this out, but it's not like you know, it it hasn't hit as close to home yet, maybe. And so it is like reminiscent of a lot of those, like, oh, you know, you why do you always talk about politics? It's like because everything is political, because a lot, because a lot of it does come down to it. So I I think it's I think it is interesting that their conversation is, you know, hits close to home, I'm sure, for a lot of us and a lot of my relationships with people in my life. But yeah, so uh we get Ron back in his um in his office. He uh was invited uh back to meet with Walter and meet some more people. Um so he's talking to the sergeant, and he says uh specifically um David Duke is in charge of the KKK. Um he is kind of trying to encourage a little less of the chaotic violence that the KKK was sort of known for. Uh Ron refers to him as the what is it, the grand, the grand wizard, grand dragon, whatever their DD term is. I can't remember. It is Grand Wizard. Grand Wizard, that's it. Yeah. Uh I was gonna say Grand Maester, and that's Game of Thrones. That's not a that's not the same thing. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:38

It is wizard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:39

I don't know if it's grand wizard. I I feel like it is, I don't know. Is it good or bad if I don't know as much about the KKK? I don't know if that's like a better sign. I could say really grand or imperial wizard. Okay, okay, yeah. Yeah, but um Ron refers to it as that sort of like, you know, magical title. And the sergeant is like, no, he's referring to himself as the national director. Like he has like an official quote unquote title, um, and says that he's, you know, trying to not just lead the KKK but also working himself into politics. And then we get the line of America would never elect someone like David Duke president. And I wrote in all caps, oh, wouldn't they? And this is where everything it says that's pretty naive coming from a black man. And I was like, Yes, it is, it really is.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

I really love that the sergeant like told him all this though because it's like clearly Ron didn't know, and I was like, Oh, you you sir are an ally, yes, like yeah, above anything else. And he's like, Yeah, I see this bigger picture, and Ron's like, nah, and you're like, Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:45

Yeah, and it and immediately on the back of you know him talking to Patrice, and it's like, oh, you know, well, why does everything have to be political? And him saying, Well, this could never happen, and it's really you get kind of how naive Ron is. At this stage where it's like, no, like, yeah, all this stuff seems impossible until it happens. And then it's like, oh fuck, what do we do now? Yeah, that line, oh boy, that I had to pause and take a second after that one. I was like, oh fuck, man. So so yeah, so we um we get later, uh, we get Ron is um staking out. Uh he is out in the car uh watching while Flip goes in to um meet some more people. Um he meets uh Connie, Felix's wife, who greets him. And at first I was like, oh, look at her. Jesus Christ, this woman. Um, so we so we're going, we're at Felix's house. Um Felix is just holding court. He's very proud of himself. And Flip sort of joins the group in there. Um and Connie pipes in. Um, she is like, oh, you know, I heard about um, you know, uh that, you know, Kwame's speech and uh about Patrice who was stopped by a cop and is speaking out against, you know, her being stopped unjustly. Um and she uh read an article about it and she cut out the article, hands it to Felix, and she goes, you know, I think we should go after her next. And it's like, oh Jesus, Connie is bought in. Um and Felix is very dismissive of her. It's like, no, okay, that's that's it, babe. She is on board in an upsetting way. She is fully in. Yes. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so the uh the group is very calmly discussing their next crossburning schedule. Just talking shop. Um, so uh Felix hands the article to Ivan Ho that um that Connie had given him. Uh he hands it to Ivanhoe to read. Um, basically just asking Ivanhoe once again to prove that he can read. To try, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's a go for it. Um, but he pulls Ron aside, um, says, Hey, come here, I want to show you something. Or flip. Yeah, or flip, gosh. I wrote Ron, but I think because he had said Ronos typing. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um Ron in quotation marks. Felix wants to show him his uh gun and clan memorabilia basement. Um specifically, it's a shotgun that he did. He just call it Jew Killer or something. It was like, it was something just like immediately it was like, hey, this is this is this, and I think Walter follows them. It's like, hey, Felix, you need to, you need to chill out.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:18

Yeah, it was very like Nazi heavy stuff. Yeah. So it's still to just like, because even in the background, you could see like the swastika flags and stuff like that. And it was like really like, you know, I'm gonna show you all this stuff to see if it like triggers you at all. Like, are you are you Jewish? Like, is this doing something to you? Yeah. Is it?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:35

Yeah, everything about it is just like, I yeah, are you triggered? But yeah, so uh Felix is pushing that again. Um, Walter tells him to cool it. I said Felix does not cool it. He uh takes him into another room, locks the door, uh, because there's a lie detector test that he wants to wants to present uh flip with instead. Um Walter says, uh, you have to stop doing this. This is how we lose recruits, which is insane. It's like, oh Felix.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:02

But he doesn't do anything about it. No, and that's and that's the It's just like the the complacency of just like, hey, stop it. Uh I guess I'll go.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:10

Yeah, it's like, well, I told him not to. Yeah, it's it's the it's the gentle parenting from the the head of this branch of the KKK.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:18

It how fucking sucks.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:26

I'm not I'm not as familiar with uh with that. I'm I'm familiar with the the badly mimified version of gentle parenting.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:34

Yeah, the fake gentle parenting version.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:36

Yeah, exactly. No, I can't. Hey budget. Hey Bud, can we knock that off? Hey Bud, can we stop that? Felix uh tells tells Flip to you know sit down and take take this lie detector test. Um we get even more of Felix's batshit insanity. Um, he is a full Holocaust denier. Um Flip Flip spins it and says, Well, no, the Holocaust was real and it was it was wonderful. And he's like, There's footage, and Felix says, Well, that's fake because Jewish people run Hollywood. And I was like, What the fuck is happening? Um, but Flip is so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:12

Flip is he's like, talk shit. Yeah, like what is this basement? Like, what the fuck is this? And he's like, God, you're I'm like, this man is insane. Like it, like just confusing him. And like, I was like, what a masterful person in general.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:27

No, he's he's so good at deflecting all of it because it it literally it's like there's no world in which he just says, No, I'm not, and Felix says, Okay, cool, sounds good. Like it's literally just all he can do is like take the offensive against Felix, um, which is what he's doing. But then um Felix immediately is like, well, it's like, oh, you know, well, I heard Jewish people uh do something to their dicks. Um, can you prove you're not circumstance? And Flip's like, that's kind of gay. Why do you want to see my dick? Um, right? Yeah. Um, which honestly is a good deflection for that. It's you know, that's it. Um at this point, Ron hears it, Ron, who has been listening to the whole thing in the car. Hears what is happening. Um specifically hears um Flip say, uh, you know, put the gun down. Ron's like, fuck, I need to fix this. Um do something. Yeah, runs up to the house, throws a rock through the window to distract everyone and runs back away. Um, at this point, everyone runs runs out of the house. Connie flips out. Connie flips out. Uh Felix and Flip run up the stairs. Um, Flip grabs the gun from is it from Felix? Yes, because Felix is gonna shoot. Yeah, yeah. Felix is ready to shoot the car. Flip grabs it from him and then quote unquote shoots at the car, like misses really badly. Oh my god, yeah. So good.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:51

Yeah, but so smart.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:53

Yeah, so like Flip is so fast at like deflecting every single bit of it. But it's just like every time it's just like, oh God, how is it gonna get out? And you're right, it is just like your heart's in your fucking throat going, oh god, oh no, that's not enough. It's it it'll buy you a little time, but oh god, what are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:10

Yeah, because yeah, because then he's like, you know, I avoided like, you know, still want me to take the lie detector test. Like I ran faster than you, grabbed your gun, shot at this black man. Like, what else do you want from me at this point? Yeah, it's like, have I not proven myself? Holding the cover, keeping Ron safe and just like, oh my god, just so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:30

Yeah, it's just it's yeah, it's fantastic. But it but it is like it's those points of like you've got tension, tension, tension, just like building, and then you get outside and he's just like, Oh, is that you know, is that not good enough for you? And you're just like, Okay, like it just relieves, like releases that tension. It's like, this is so good. This is so well shot and like well timed. Like the pacing is just god, it's perfect. Like it knows exactly how much tension to build before releasing it. It's perfect, but yeah, so the uh the sergeant is real pissed off about how everything went. He says, Um, if the chief hears about this, he's gonna kill he's gonna fight all of you guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:09

So he's not going to tell the chief because because they're like, so it's like, well, I think the chief gonna find out.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:15

Yeah, the chief gonna find out, and sergeant throws the whole file in a in a drawer and closes it. But uh then we have um Ron and Flip go to the record room to talk privately. Um, and Flip says that this entire job is getting too risky, and for what purpose, basically? Uh he says, for you it's a crusade, for me it's a job. Um Flip is sort of already distancing himself. He's like, We're taking you know, this is me in a lot of risk for, you know, for your mission. Um and Ron specifically says it should be more personal to him because because he is Jewish, because this is something that out on the street, if it was, you know, he would still be a target of this same hatred. So it's Ron pushing that it should be more personal, Flip sort of put dismissing it immediately.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:07

Um for passing. Yes. And it's like maybe Flip didn't realize that was what he was doing at the time. Because I mean, and we get the answer to that later, but it's like either he didn't want to admit it or he hadn't put it together that, like, you know, he was actually passing more that than he thought.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:27

Yeah, like just yeah, yeah, like because he can pretend that it's not like because yeah, because he can hide more easily doesn't mean that it's when push comes to show this isn't, you know, targeting him. Um yeah, so uh so Ron calls his personal KKK hotline to get his uh member c membership card expedited. And he ends up talking to David Duke personally on the phone, um, just to get that personally expedited because he's you know been calling in a lot. He's a a name that people know somehow, which is fun. So he uh leaves the office immediately, gets elbow checked um by Landers. Ron complains about Landers, like he's talking to Jimmy and Flip about him. And I can't remember if it's Jimmy or Flip, but they say, Oh, he's been a bad cop for a long time. Um yeah, he says uh he, you know, shot and killed a black kid. Um, but but he basically they're saying this is just what happens, like he's gonna get away with it. They're saying uh uh we're a family, right or wrong, we stand up for each other, which is per a pervasive attitude and also fucked. I think it's some it's another another instance of, you know, Ron was kind of told that this might happen when he joined the force, and it's a little bit of his naivety saying, Oh, well, you know, what so so, you know, why hasn't anything been done? And and being told immediately, well, that's not how this works. You know, that's not how we operate. The next scene we get um target practice with the clan. Flip is out shooting guns with the guys. Um, they're complaining about the gay bar that is getting built or established in town. Um, and there are uh two new two guys that Flip hasn't seen before. Um, they're older guys with, you know, with guns that are kind of not shooting with everybody else, they're kind of just scoping everyone else out. Flip asks Walter who they are. Um, and Walter said that is classified information. Um, so now we gotta figure out who those guys are. So yeah, so uh Flip basically shows off that he has actually very good aim um after uh they talk shit about how he missed the car yes uh the other day. It's like, oh okay, well, how's this? So he, you know, does a good job. I think at this point, um, I in the background, uh Ivanhoe says something about getting gooder. Um, and then Walter says, I don't think gooder is a word, but you're doing real good. And I was like, Oh yes, it was like when they were walking away. Yeah, yeah. He was like, I think, yeah. Yeah, I'm just like, okay, like this is yeah, but this is just like it's Walter being like, oh yeah, you know, like kind of moderate, like not a huge deal. Like, yeah, you know, I hate I hate all the same people as you guys, but you know, we're we're all we're all a big group and we're all friends here. Yeah, exactly. We're all friends here, and then Walter is maybe not not the same mindset as the rest of the group. Um, so we get some really dramatic music as Ron goes into that field, um, picks up, you know, picks up bullet casings, kind of scopes it out, and then we uh finally, unsurprisingly, I think, uh get a shot of what the targets are, which are metal cutouts of uh black running figures, all of whom have afroes. Um, which is what they're cruising. Yep, which is what they've been shooting at the entire time.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:39

The music was really good.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:40

Yes, god, the music is incredible in this. I'm not surprised that it was non-profit. Makes sense whether me too. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, and especially like it's the dramatic music, and then this is like these are the kinds of like inter scene cutscenes where we get those like dramatic mountain shots into in it's just God, it's so it's so good. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:00

This is a pretty yeah, and they they use this like dramatic, like kind of it's like jazzy, dangerous theme. Like it's it's used multiple times throughout the movie, too. And so it's like like almost a theme for like when danger's happening or like when certain things are happening. Like it just yeah, they did really well.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:19

Yeah, it's like it's almost 70s spy movie, but not quite. Kind of, yeah. It's it's very it's it seems silly to say it because it's in a movie, but it's very cinematic. You know what I mean? Like it's gotten sweeping sort of orchestral. Yeah, they're good. But yeah, we get uh Ron and Patrice um talking about uh black cop movies and detective movies. Um, they're talking about Hitman and Cleopatra Jones. Um, and basically Ron is saying, oh, you know, these are like they're still good. Um uh Patrice is is saying that, you know, black exploitation movies don't count because that's fantasy. That's not really what you know what the real world is like. That's not what being a cop is like. Ron asks about, you know, well, where's you know, where's the the value of trying to change a system from the inside? And Patrice says that doesn't happen without a struggle. Um, that that's you know, that that's not an easy transition. Like it's not like you can, you know, join into a system and just hope for the best. Like it's you have to fight against that system. Um, and they, you know, she talks about that she shouldn't have to feel conflict between being black and being an American. She should just be able to be herself. I love their conversations because I feel like all of their conversations sort of highlight a lot of what Ron is going through. Like I feel like Ron is going through that conflict of, you know, is he doing his job or is he a black man? And you know, where does where does that intersect? And where did, you know, where do those things work together and where do they pull him apart, essentially? Um yeah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:57

Because she said, you feel like you're two people all the time warring inside yourself. And I was like, oh yeah, that this is this is spot on, like exactly what he's going through. And in addition to that, he's got like a a third persona that is portrayed by flip. So it's like this just persona against persona and none of them are matching exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:18

Yeah, yeah. And it's and it's you know hard to figure out who Ron actually is because it feels like when he's with Patrice, it's who he wants to be, but he still has that you know separate side that he's having to keep from her. But once again, they are adorable together and I love them. So cute. They're so cute. I love it. I know, yeah. Um, but yeah, so uh then we get um Felix uh knocking on an apartment door, and it's Ron's door, and Patrice's there, and they make eye contact, and Felix says, sorry, I have the wrong address, and leaves um after a very tense uh moment. Um yeah, I know, just holding your breath the entire time. Um and Ron is the only one who knows. Oh no, this is really bad. So then uh Flip goes to meet up with the guys. Um, so Felix says, Oh, you have a twin. Um, I went to I went to your apartment. I looked it up in the phone book, and that's and and Flip immediately deflects and says, Oh, well, my address is unlisted. He gives his real address, whether it's his actual real address or a different address. But he's like, Oh yeah, shut up. Like, that's yeah, why would you do that? Yeah, and he he flip does the same thing that he does every time he talks to Felix, is like, what the fuck is your problem? Like immediately deflecting. But uh Felix is like, Oh, you know, this this guy is the same name as Ron. And also that woman from the student union is there. And I'm like, Okay, Patrice is even more involved, which is sucks. But yeah, we uh have Ron is leaving his apartment. Uh, he checks his mail and his KKK membership card is there. Um yeah. So they uh he brings it to Flip. They're looking at their uh pegboard, they are sort of, you know, they have the pictures of of all the chapter members that they've met so far, um, picking out like who the actual key players are. Basically, it's that Walter is is the quote unquote leader, but Felix needs to get watched, basically. But and this is when Flip starts talking a little bit more about his upbringing in religion. Um, he says he wasn't raised Jewish, that wasn't really a big part of his life, but now he's thinking about it more than ever. Like it he's says he's uh thinking constantly about rituals and heritage, um, and realizes that if that's what passing is, then he has been passing. Um, so kind of just having it highlighted and the fact that it is, you know, something that that he's gotten so far in his life without having to think about. And now that it's been brought to light, it's like, oh, this is this is something that I wasn't aware of that that has kind of affected my whole life, just not exactly the same way. But yeah, we uh go to um uh Patrice's neighborhood. Um, there are KKK flyers on her windshield and throughout her neighborhood. Um, Ron uh goes to, you know, talk to the group. He says, you know, hey, that you know, they they want you to be intimidated that you know you can't you can't let it stress you out. We just gotta stay cool. Everyone says we have been cool for too long. This is not helping, but it's it's definitely Ron, you know, trying to deflect the situation, but also kind of taking aside. And it's like, well, you guys just gotta, you know, gotta not let it bother you. And that's very much the perspective of don't think too hard about it. And I think it's literally what Flip had tried not to do and now is thinking about it constantly. And Ron's saying, hey, don't think about it. It's like Ron, what are you what are you doing, man? It you can't do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:52

Well, and also what I'm telling Ron to do in the station. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:56

Don't think about it. Yeah, you know, yeah, it's it's interesting to see how many times it's just mirrored in every single character in here. So uh Ron, we get Ron in the car at night, um staking out uh flip and Ivan Ho in the car um before the cross burning. Um cop cars keep driving by, and then we get that Ron that Ron is calling the cop cars. It's like, hey, send another one through. Again, yeah, yeah. They're they're clocking all these cop cars going by. Yeah, so they're they're making conversation. Um Ivan Ho's being awkward. Um, flip says he finished his second tour in Vietnam. Ivan Ho asks him about uh what's what his experience with C4 was, and he's like, I don't I don't know. It it it blows stuff up, man. I don't know. So obviously, yeah. Just like, hey, totally totally hypothetically, no, no reason, but like, what do you know about bombs? Do you know about bombs? Hey, how how are you with bombs? Um god, but yeah, so uh then uh Walter and the rest of the squad show up uh with with the cross to be burned. Um they are, and this is where you get a lot more of the David Duke uh monologues, and I don't know if it's a radio station, I don't know if it's a tape, I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:17

I think it's supposed to be, yeah, either a radio station or a tape that they're like listening to in their cars or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:22

Yeah, but it's like it's listening, God, listening to the dialogue. Um, specifically, uh, there was one line that I wrote down about uh minorities ethnically cleansing our people. And I said, I don't know if this is real dialogue, but it makes me feel crazy. So yeah, uh, so yeah, they they all pull up, they've got the cross, they're ready, and then uh Ivantoe says, Yeah, we've seen too many cop cars, the the cross burning's off. We we gotta cancel. And they go, Oh man, oh shucks, let's go home. Maybe next month. Yeah, so so that's canceled. So then we get uh Felix in a car and he is staking at Patrice's house. He's going rogue, just doing his own thing. Um, so then he uh she gets out of the house, gets in her car, he follows her car, and then we do do uh we get separately. Um David Duke is talking, he says, We in the organization, we don't hate black people. Uh they just need to be kept separate from everyone else. And it's just the the yeah, just the the insane, like just the the the mental gymnastics of of justifying like this bigotry and and hatred, basically.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:36

I feel like some of the recordings also lead into like him actually talking to someone too. So maybe that's I think so. I don't remember what happens next.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:43

So I think so. This is the one where he's yeah, he's talking about it, but then it my my note is like, oh, he's like Ron is just on the phone with him. So I think this is when he is like talking to Ron, but that's the reveal where it's like it cuts to Ron like listening on the other line. Just listening, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, and we Ron is is commiserating, and he he tells a story about living across the street from a black kid growing up and then being told at a certain point that he couldn't play with him anymore just because he was white. And you kind of see that shift in Ron where it's like it doesn't, it's like he's realizing how this has actually affected him, how he actually is sort of connected to this, how this isn't just a a weird hypothetical fun anymore. No, it's not, it's not fun anymore. That's exactly what it is. It's like, oh, this isn't like a oh, let's see what this guy can say. It's like, oh, this isn't a game. Like, this is something that I'm having to sort of realize. And Duke is is says, you know, we we're we're a lot alive, we have a lot in common, you and I. He said that they need people like them in office. And specifically, he says for America to achieve its greatness again. And I said, Oh, hello, 2018 rhetoric. We are being Being obvious now. Yeah, baby. Yeah. Um, which uh honestly, it's it's wild that these lines fit so perfectly in this and like at the same time like hearing them said like so rationally, like it just like it just makes my skin crawl. I don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:20

Yeah, by someone who's so blatantly a bad person, but is so convinced in what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:27

Yeah, and and and just like you said, like so charismatic, and not like you know, not foaming at the mouth and screaming about it. It's just like no, like this is really important, and just like sounding so measured, like there's something it's it's so fucked up how uh uh how effective it is to say these wildly, you know, harmful things, but being able to say them, you know, in a in a tone that people are like, oh, well, I you know, I should listen to what this person has to say. And it just it's it's it makes my skin crawl.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:07

Yeah, and he's not the one out there like saying all the slurs, he's not the one getting angry, he's not doing any of that to make himself mainstream and um a palatable to the masses.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:23

Yeah, he's he's not waving guns at people, he is he is having you know, having conversations, he's just he's just talking, he's just you know doing his radio show or sending tapes to people or whatever that is, yeah, whatever those are. Yeah, it's self-help tapes. Exactly. Yeah, it is it is insidious. Um so Duke says, Oh, we'll actually be in uh Colorado Springs for your initiation. Can't wait to meet you. And Ron's like, great, me too. Woo! Yeah, so okay, I I wrote this down and I don't remember what came of this, but we get Patrice in the library and she is looking at microfiche for things. Oh yes. What is what is she looking at or for? Because I kept I kept waiting for it to like stop on like whatever she had found.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:13

I I feel like upon reflection, maybe it was about um the article about the man that they got to speak at the black student union. Oh, that's a good point. That's my assumption now, thinking about it. Um, because they had all those pictures and they said they were printed. The whole story was like printed and and the photographs and everything. So that's my only that's the only thing I could think of that like maybe she was trying to find him as a like the other guy's like a speaker or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:41

Yeah, okay, like she was doing research for that next speech essentially. I think so.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:45

Okay, so that makes sense speech because they had all the pictures printed, like really big and stuff. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:51

No, that makes sense. I you're right, it wasn't it it wasn't clear at the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:55

I don't think at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:56

Like I jotted it down, like waiting for the next part of it, and then it just like slides into the next scenes. Yeah. Um, no, that makes sense. Um, we get Walter on the phone. Um, he is saying uh they need a new chapter leader, like he needs to step away. Um, but they need someone who's not fucking Felix. Um, but he is talking to Ron and says, Hey, I'm gonna nominate you. And Ron goes, nope, don't do that. Um he specifically says my dad. Yeah, uh he says his his dad is sick and he's in El Paso. He, you know, deflects that. Um, so then we get a meeting at I think it's Felix's house is the one we keep meeting at. Um yeah, where Walter like nominates him again and Flip's like, no, I'm I'm good. And he, you know, says, No, uh, my my dad's sick and he's in Dallas. And uh we get Ron over the over the wire. It's like, no, no, no, it's El Paso, you fucked up. And Walter's like, I thought it was El Paso, and then uh Flip sort of has to backpedal and deflect, and then immediately Felix is fucking on him. He's like, Well, which one is it? And it's just nothing he says is gonna be is gonna be good enough. But we have you know the the facade slipping a little bit for flip, but also we have you know Walter trying to give uh you know, quote unquote Ron some more responsibility in the group. So we uh get uh Duke talking to Ron over the phone. Um he uh says, well, he can he can always tell when he's talking to a black person based based on on diction and the way that they you know pronounce certain things. Um and Ron is terrified at first, he's like, oh no, you figured it out. Um the sergeant is listening in as well. Um and oh yeah, because they're both silent. Yeah, they're just silent. It's like, so we're we're good, right? I'm fine. Um, and then and Duke is absolutely convinced that Ron, that Ron is a perfect upstanding white man. It's totally fine. Um, specifically a white man, specifically using um the example he uses as the word R. Um he says, Oh, well, you know, a black man would say a ru. And and and Ron is like, You are you are so white, thank you for teaching me this lesson. I appreciate this. You are so wise, thank you. Yeah, I was like, great, cool. I I love the sergeant just literally perched on his desk, just listening in, cracking up. Yeah, it's yes, yeah. The sergeant is is a capital A ally. Good for him. I love him. He's great, but yeah, so uh Felix uh calls Ron for a meeting without Walter. Um so yeah, which is not sketchy at all. Um, so um, so they all meet up at Felix's house. Uh Felix says that uh David Duke is is gonna be in town that weekend. Uh make sure that making sure that everyone has a gun. And uh Flip is like, I didn't bring mine. And Felix is like, no problem, here's an extra. And Flip's like, great. Um yeah, but uh Felix gets everyone hyped up. He says next Sunday, basically a war is coming. And it just uh the bad vibes all around. Um, gotta figure out what's going on. Um, so then we get um This isn't the point where I was like, Do any of these people have kids?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:13

Yeah, I don't think I don't think I feel like they don't. I don't think so. Doesn't seem like many of them are married and like none of them have kids. I'm like, oh thank god.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:21

Yeah, it's yeah, it's it's uh I think that stops being as much of a crime comedy when there are kids involved. I feel like it's totally fair. Yeah, I feel like it tips it over to just a crime movie because and then it's just yeah the You see where my brain is. Yeah, no, I get it. You're totally right. Um, but yeah, so we get uh Connie um and Felix uh laying in bed before before everything. Connie is asking if Felix is having second thoughts um about everything. Uh she's just so excited. I said they're both really excited about it, and it's very fucked up. Um they are This is the scene that I remember.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:00

Oh my god. Like forever. Like this one specifically was has has stuck with me for eight years.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:07

Yeah, it is, it is chilling. Um, just them being just her being so excited about like getting to kill people and like like you know like for like a great cause and stuff, and it just yeah, I've been dreaming about this day.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:27

I thought it would never come, and it's like we're killing black people, like this is what we're talking about, and it's yeah, it it's yeah, it I oh god, it's so fucked up.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:39

Um yeah, yeah. Uh but yeah, so we get to uh we're in the office. Um, there's a note on Ron's desk. Um, he is meeting with a guy from the FBI to uh share intelligence. Um so it turns out those two uh guys at the shooting range who were classified are in NORAD. They're like high up enough in the government that they're like, oh, this is a red flag. We need to look into this. Um yeah, uh the FBI guy says, Thanks so much. By the way, um the US Army is missing some cases of C4 and they suspect a possible attack. And Ron says, Can I get some more information on that? And the guy goes, Nope, we were never here. Goodbye. And just leaves him with that information. So now the wheels are turning, everything is everything is coming together, and Ron knows that something bad is going to happen. Um, so we uh are back at Patrice's house. He is asking her not to go to the protest that weekend, but he can't tell her why. Specifically, he uses the phrase active investigation, and she clocks that and says, What the fuck is your deal? Um he finally caves and tells her that he's an undercover detective. He tries, he tries to rationalize the work that he is doing, and she argues that he's not actually doing anything, that he's not really, really fighting anything, he's not really making any kind of difference. I feel like I get where she's coming from, especially considering as much resistance as he has put pushed back for you know her trying to take stances on things. Like, yeah, he's, you know, it does comparatively sound like he's not really doing much. She is not listening to him. She is, you know, doing her own thing. Um, and Ron can't really tell her what to do. We get uh Felix on a payphone saying it's off and that you'll we'll figure it out. Um so the the march was cancelled. That was the KKK march, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:37:50

Or was that the I don't remember because I think that was the black student union because it was like a it was he was talking to her, but there were a bunch of people outside.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:00

That was a little confusing though. Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to keep yeah, because at this point So maybe maybe they were protesting the KKK march that the Flyers were for.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:08

That's what I'm something. That's what I'm wondering. Cause I think it was like I think when they're talking about the protest, it's the Black Student Union, but when they're talking about the march, I th I feel like it's the KKK one. Oh, no, so it no, so that yeah, so the KKK march was cancelled, and that's when Flip was saying, okay, well, that's fine. We can still just get them on weapons charges because I saw all of them with fucking guns. Um that's right. Yeah, and Ron says, Well, that's that's not enough. Like they're gonna get out immediately if that's the case. Um, so there was that the next scene. Yeah, yeah, that's the next scene. It it segues so fast between these. Um a lot of them real quick, but yeah. So uh the chief comes in uh for Ron says, Um, that uh David Duke needs security detail because of all these threats, and Landers uh is there to back him up on this and say, Yeah, this is what needs to happen. We don't have anyone else to spare. Um, the chief asks him to put aside personal politics, which is the most microaggression fucking, like not even a microaggression, it's the most like like just so like it's such a fucked up stupid thing to say. I think like it's just yeah, it's just like what? I don't know, like your personal feelings. It's like, no, dude, that's not what this is. Like, this is what we talk about, my guy. Yeah, it's like we know what do you mean you gotta be cool? It's like no. Um Flip uh says that uh David Duke's gonna recognize Ron's voice. The chief's like, well, you know, Ron, didn't you didn't you claim you can speak, quote, English and jive? Um and and Landers hops into the conversation and piles on, and Ron gets ready to fight him, which is honestly long deserved at this point. And then the chief goes, Oh, you'd let Landers get to you that easily. And I wrote, Oh my god. Because at this point, it's it's just it it's so frustrating. But it is like that, like you know, someone who's been like, you know, pushed and pushed and pushed finally pushes back, and it's like, Whoa, where did that come from? What do you mean? Whoa. Well, they only did the Don't overreact, man. Yeah, it's like they only did the one thing to you. It's like, oh, we just didn't see all the other 30.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:16

It's like, fuck off, man. And I literally told you you're gonna have to make sure the most erasous guy you know is safe. Yeah. But you know, Flip can't do it because he's off doing your investigation thing. He'll already be there.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:29

So it's your fault, Ron. Sorry. It's you did this. Yeah, it's I this is this is officially where I've got like even more frustrated with the chief. Like, I think at the very start, I was like, the chief seemed like he was like kind of willing to help. And he was like, you know, I'll have your back, but I can't, you know, I can't do it all. And this is where I'm like, oh, you don't give a shit. Like, this is no, yeah. It's like you are You're not the one. No, it's like you're just willing to let whatever happens happen and just say, Oh, I didn't have anything to do with it. And it's infuriating. Um, we're we're we're team team sergeant. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the sergeant is that's our guy. Yeah, uh, but yeah, so then we get um a scene in a basement question mark where an explosives guy is explaining to Connie how to plant explosives. I added three question marks after that. Yeah, um my god, it's her moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:26

Connie's been waiting for this her entire life.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:28

She's integral and I'm uncomfortable with it. It's what do you mean? I don't know. Women can do anything that men can, Kate. This is feminism. Oh my god. But then like she's like she looks at Ron and the guy's like, hey, or she looks at Felix and the guy's like, hey, hey, sweetheart, focus. And I'm just like, oh my god, everyone sucks. Like, I don't, I don't know why I I assumed that you I don't know why it surprises me that the the racist and xenophobic guys are also sexist, but here we are. Like I just I don't know why I know I don't know why it's like, oh wow, that was icky, and I'm like, the whole thing's icky, they're all icky. Like that's you're like, oh, I hated that one point. And that's it. Yeah, that's where you draw the line, Kate. What about the rest of the movies? I know it's it's like it's like movies where there are like horrible murders, and then it's like, but the dog got hurt, and it's like, oh man. Yeah, it's it's I know it's it's that, it's just like, oh shit. Um yeah, so um This guy's mean to his wife. What the fuck? Oh my gosh. I I'm starting to believe that Felix isn't that great of a guy. Oh my god. What the surprise. I'm starting to think he's the bad guy. Um so I know so uh so we get um not not quite a rally, not not quite a march or a rally, but um the a secret third thing, um, which is just David Duke leaving his hotel, basically. Um Ron stride uh drives up and then confidently walks up to uh meet him at the like outside of the hotel. Um goes to introduce himself as a security detail. David Duke is like, have we met before? And Ron's like, nope, sure haven't. Um he specifically says that he doesn't agree with Duke's philosophies, but he is a professional um and is going to, you know, d perform duties of his station. Um Duke and Walter both feel both seem very uncomfortable with it. They sort of side-eye each other. They hate it. Yeah, they're just like, oh, this is bad. Um but yeah, so we uh drive to the actual church, I believe, um, where we're having it is yeah, it's a church. Yeah, uh the church where we're having the um initiation ceremony. Um Walter introduces uh Flip to David Duke specifically. Um Ron uh stands at the very back of the room um as as security. Um Felix and Ivanhoe sort of flank him for a second, just as a weird, just a very specific moment of tension. Um, but just to tell him to, you know, stay outside of the room where the actual meeting is taught is happening. Um so he's you know performing, you know, the security detail, but he's also not actually not allowed. Yeah, yeah, not allowed to actually do anything. Interspersed with this, we go back, we cut back and forth from the initiation ceremony and a another uh uh speech put on by the Black Student Union. Um, it is a Jerome Turner. Um, he is talking about um in uh Waco, Texas in 1916. Um, Jesse Washington uh was accused of accused of rape and was lynched um after he was quote unquote convicted after four minutes of deliberation. Um I feel like this is this is something that I feel like whether or not you know all of the details, everyone has heard this story. Um as soon as he as as soon as they started telling the story, I was like, I know this story. It gave me more information than I had heard previously about this story.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:05

Yeah, I feel like this was more it was more in depth and I I did not remember this part.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:11

Yeah, definitely a lot, a lot more detail, which great, um, like jarring amounts of detail, um, but so effective interspersed with this. Um we have we have um uh Jerome Turner talking, you know, addressing the Oh, I was just gonna say, uh Jerome, did you know that he was played by Harry Belafonte?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:34

No, and that was his last role uh before he died.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:39

I honestly I thought he looked familiar, and I was just like, I don't I made myself not look up anything else. Oh no, that's amazing. Oh, hell yeah. God, it was so good. Like he had like ex like the gravitas that you need for that kind of so good, just so so matter-of-factly and measured and just yeah, just so so fucking good. Um, so so cut between this, we also have um, you know, David Duke uh talking to the the group gathered. Uh they are robed up and they are ready for this initiation. Um, and he talks about, you know, the great words of Dr. William Shockley, who's a eugenicist, talking about how great white people are. And I'm like, fuck off. Nobel Prize winner, which I did not remember. Yeah, that's well, well, of course. We're just giving those out to fucking everybody. Um, or having them stolen. I don't know. Um all right. Yeah, I I I know. Listen, I picked this film. I can't be of all the episodes. You can't tell me not to get political on this one. That's the point. Uh yeah, so all right, so we are ready. So he's like, okay, hoods on, let's go. Um, so we see uh Ron uh walking through the back rooms of this church. Um he is not staying outside of that door. Um he has found a window at the back of that of the actual meeting room where he can watch and listen and see exactly what is actually happening. Um, so we have uh David Duke praying for the new members, um a lot of bullshit. Um the the one line I wrote down was God give us true white men. Just a lot of like, you know, calling for like soldiers to arms, essentially. Um it is reinforcing that idea of an actual war and just like a holy war, essentially. Um, and it's it's gross.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:34

Uh the little candles that they had um were so sad and weird. Like I didn't even notice. Because they had like little candles with like the the cards, oh the little papers. Like honestly, it made me think of first communion, and I was like, that's gross and sad. Like I don't I don't want to associate that with like our first communion, and I was like, oh, I hate it. Why did we need a candle?

SPEAKER_00 1:47:59

Yeah, it's very like, oh, this is like in the modular building, like not a but they had the holy water and everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:07

And I was like, oh, like, yeah, this is not in the church. We do get the stained glass that Ron looks at. Yeah. Um, but like this is this is well within the sect of this church. Yeah. Whatever they're they're combined.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:22

Yeah, yeah, this is touching. Yeah, this is the weird, like, like rec room something or other. Like it's got a it's got it's got a projector, they got something going on. Yeah, yeah, it it sucks. Um, but yeah, so we are we are cutting back and forth between um uh Jerome Turner telling Jesse Washington's story um and David Duke. Um we get flip being initiated. Um, we get the the atrocities, the horrible treatment of of Jesse Washington, and then the you know, horrible treatment of his of his corpse. Um, and then we have the actual, like apparently the photos of they, you know, had a photographer come out, take photos of the body and you know, during his murder, um, and had them made into postcards. And then we have the actual photos, and there is a short still of all of these student union members holding up these photos, sort of surrounding Jerome as he holds one up too. And this is where I wrote, Goddamn Spikely makes a good movie. This is it's such a good, powerful shot. And it's stuff that like, like I said, like I've I know I've heard this story. I haven't seen this. And it's and it is like it's deeply upsetting and jarring. And it's stuff where like I don't I don't know, like it's it's so impactful seeing like okay, this is you know, uh this is what this group is is you know hoping for and and approving of and says, Man, wouldn't it be great if we could do this again? And it's just having this inter All the time, yes, exactly, and having this interpose and then You have this jarring transition, which is so effective. Um, right after the initiation, uh, Duke's like, All right, you're here, and then they open the doors for this whole celebratory group of families, yes, all the families here to celebrate. And then they you cut back to Jerome saying that the year before before Jesse Washington was murdered, Birth of a Nation came out and inspired so many of these people. And then we get these newly initiated KKK members watching Birth of a Nation like it's fucking Rocky Horror Picture Show, just yelling and everything popcorn, yelling at the screen, interactive. I wrote everyone is cheering yes. I was like, everyone is so hype and it feels insane. Colin Connie is having the time of her life.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:55

It and then flip doing the acting to be just as excited. I was like, how gross do you feel right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:51:04

Like having to do this, and then like you just yeah, like you leave and just like vomit immediately. It's just I like God, yeah. But just like that, it's it's such an incredible like dichotomy there. It's so fucking good. And we have Ron watching the entire scene from the window. He is seeing all of this happen. Um, and then at the as the movie ends, everyone in the church starts chanting white power, and then we cut back for that last time to Jerome, Jerome Turner saying, That's why I'm here today in the name of black power. And we get this dichotomy of these two fucking scenes, and it's so, it's so good. It's just it's beautiful, it's perfect. I love it. Um, but yeah, so then we we have um a more a more serious celebration. We have a banquet dinner and a toast. Um, we have Duke um, you know, leading this sort of ceremony. Um, it's well if I wrote down some more more quotes. Um it says uh real warriors for the real America that our ancestors fought and died for. Um telling, you know, telling everyone gathered there, thank you for never putting your country second, America first. And I just I hate it. But then we get uh panning across the um the the people working at this banquet. Um we cut across across like three smiling white women, and then we get four really pissed off looking black men. And the one guy saying, Shit, if I'd known it was the KKK, I wouldn't have worked this one. I wouldn't have taken it. I wouldn't have taken this job, which is so fair. It just it was just relatable. Yes, like dude, same it's perfect, but yeah. So at this banquet, we get um Felix uh, you know, interposes himself to introduce himself and uh Connie to to David Duke. Um, it looks like he's tapping like Morse code onto Duke's wrist. I don't like I don't know what exactly that was. It just it was just very much like Felix saying, I have a message to to communicate to you, and Duke just not picking up on whatever it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:22

Yeah. I think that's like a like a special handshake or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:29

Oh like a a handshake that means something, but not not Morse code or something. I don't know. Okay, um like I couldn't quite tell because it was also cutting to a lot of like eye contact and stuff. And also I just I don't know. I thought he was gonna like slip him something at first. Like I thought he was gonna like Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:52

I don't I just I kind of assumed it was like like they had a special handshake, but we hadn't seen it before or something. You know, that makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:00

But it would have been weird, like it would it it would be like the the way it zoomed in on it made it seem like it was something very it was supposed to be something I think the big th the big takeaway is that whatever it is, I don't think Duke is picking up on whatever Felix is putting down. You know what I mean? Oh, okay. Like I I feel like I feel like Felix is off on his own situation, and I think Duke is like, I don't, I'm not involved in whatever this is. Um whether whether it's consciously like I'm shutting down whatever you're presenting to me, or if it's like I don't know what this means. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:35

Yeah, I I forgot to look that up more later.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:37

No, it's all good. I mean, shit, there's a lot. I don't I don't blame people. There's gotta be something. These these last couple of movies have been just like thick, so I get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:47

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:48

Um, but yeah, so so yeah, so we also get the explosives guy. I don't know if we ever got his name. I just call him explosives guy. Walker. Okay, I just call him explosives guy the whole time. I don't know. That's fine. Um I said C4 guy, yeah. So you're good. Oh, more concise. Good job. Uh quick typing. There you go. Um, but yes, the uh the explosives guy is like side-eyeing flip. Um, he uh starts talking to Felix. Uh he says that he knows that guy. That's the guy who got him arrested. His name is Philip Zimmerman, and Felix is outraged, and he's like, Oh fuck, you mean Ron is Jewish? And uh the explosives guy goes, Well, it could be worse, he could be black. So uh but I love the who's on first event.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:30

They're like, who, Ron? You mean Philip? You next to like they're just like, oh my god, you guys. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:36

Figure it out. Yeah, they do. Yeah, and then and then that's when Felix puts puts it together at least that Flip and Ron are in some way connected. Yeah. Uh I don't know if he clo I don't do you think he clocks that they're the same quote unquote same guy, or does he just know that they're like working together in some regard?

SPEAKER_01 1:55:55

Well, because I think he recognizes Ron as the guy at the address that he pulled up for Ron. Oh, fuck, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:01

Yeah, so he just kind of figured out everything. No, that makes sense. No, that's fair. Either way, he doesn't get to finish. No, and he's and he's paranoid enough that honestly that is a leap that he would probably take. Um, honestly, that checks out.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:15

Yeah, I just yeah, of course, of course, Felix. Because he's seen actual Ron before is the only reason under Ron's address. That's true, and knows that that's his name too.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:25

So it's that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:27

And Flip is a cop, yes, right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:29

Um, but yeah, so uh so this is when Ron uh goes up to Duke um and says, Hey, uh no one's ever gonna fucking believe that I uh worked for you. Can we please take a picture? God, insane. My heart in my fucking throat. Uh so he has his his Polaroid camera, um, hands it to Flip, is like, hey, can you take this picture for me? And Flip at the last second remembers to be racist and is like, don't fucking touch me. And Ron's like, yeah, no, I thought he did a good job. I think I think he did, but I think there was like a moment of like He was surprised. Yeah, either like, what are you doing? Or oh, right, I don't know you or like you. Um, but yeah, so he so uh so yeah, he has uh flip take the camera and then he goes one, two, three, and at the very last minute, he Ron throws his arms around David Duke and this other guy. I think it was his brother or something. Yeah, and immediately it just like the flash of tension. Um Duke immediately uh threatens him. It's like, what, you know, what are you doing? And Ron immediately is unfazed, is like, hey, I will press charges if you touch me. Um that's you know, assaulting a police officer. Um it's truly just all of it. It's just like, Ron, what the fuck are you doing? Um so he at that point is like, I think, I think my my my watch is ended. I'm good. Um so he uh back he backs away, um like backs away to the the wall again. Um, but then he sees the explosives guy um sit down next to Connie, um, give her I said the case, but I feel like it's just like like a I don't know if it's really a case. It's just a brand. It just looks like a oh I thought he gave her like a bag or something. I don't know if it was like it was like it was like a handbag or something, right? I think I think I don't know. Yeah, it it true just a weird tote bag. I don't know. Yeah, I feel like it wasn't a case. I wrote case, but I I think that just like that word made the most sense in my head. Um but yeah, so he uh he sees her um sees her take the the bag of whatever um and then sees her uh v immediately leave uh and walk out of the room. Um and Ron clocks that runs to his car um and then calls out a watch for for Connie's truck, telling other, you know, other officers to be be on a lookout for it. So we have this weird sort of tense dinner lineup where we have just like like the head table and then sort of like families and wives and guests and whatever. Uh so Felix um leans across and asks uh asks Flip if he knows his friend, um, whose name is apparently Walker. Um and uh Flip is like, oh no, I I I don't know this guy. And Walker is like, oh, interesting. Um uh yeah, we uh we go way back. And Duke is like, wait, why? What's what's happening? What do you mean? Um, just kind of sort of trying to keep up with whatever's going on. And Flip is just playing dumb, just refusing to acknowledge that he knows this guy. Um, but still, you know, playing his role. Yeah, uh Felix gets a phone call. It is from Connie. Connie is freaking out um because the cops are looking for her. Um, she is panicking.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:41

Well, they were like, cops because I think she's supposed to go to the student union. Yeah. And she's like, There's cops everywhere. What do I do?

SPEAKER_00 1:59:48

Yeah. Um, and he he talks her down, he convinces her to stick to the plan. He says this plan B. Yeah, yeah. Plan B. It's like this is, you know, you said that uh someday someday I was gonna need you, and this is it. Like, I, you know, I need your help, and it's you know, it's all in Connie's hands now. Um fucking sending a woman to do their dirty. I know. So at this point, uh Felix um pops back into the room, and that is the sign for uh Walker and Ivanhoe to head out. So at this point, uh there's no more buffer, and and Duke is uh starts to question Flip and is like, hey, what's what's your deal? Why did he why did he call you something different? And and Flip just just riffs. It's like, why did he call you Flip? It's like I did uh separate thing. We were in jail. I gotta go, and just excuses himself very quickly. I like at that point, it's just like it doesn't fucking matter what I say. I'm not coming back here. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:44

She's like, yeah, let's do jail. I think he's embarrassed or something, like whatever. Excuse me. Yeah, he's violated his parole. I gotta go. That's right. Yeah, the violet of the parole.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:54

Yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, so uh Ron gets to the black student union. Um Patrice isn't there, she has already left to drive uh uh Jerome back to the airport. This is when we get a little bit more of the uh David Duke radio radio hour, um, where we get just the one line that I wrote down it's an anti-white racist country. And I said, God, I can't know if this is real shit. I will lose my mind. I'm sure it, I'm sure it is, and it's gonna make me want to barf. So uh Connie is in acting plan B. Uh she is going to stick the C4 in the mailbox of Patrice's house. Um, it's too big and it won't fit in the mailbox. And then she turns around and sees Patrice getting home. Stupid. Yeah. Um, so uh Connie panics. Um, she goes uh to put the C4 underneath Patrice's car instead. Um and as she is doing that and walking away from the car, um, Ron gets there, sprints after her, catches her, and tackles her. And just then another cop car shows up and apprehends Ron instead, just as Connie is screaming that he that he attacked her.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:07

He's trying to rape me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:09

Yeah. Uh and meanwhile, Ron is saying, I'm, you know, I'm a cop, I'm undercover. There, my badge is in my pocket, and instead they're just handcuffing him and and ignoring everything he's saying. While this chaos is happening, uh Felix pulls up right next to Patrice's car and assumes everything's according to plan, um, and then sets off the bomb right next to where he is parked. So the explosion takes out his car instead, completely flips over that car, with which is what, all three of them in it? All three of them. Walker, Ivan, and Felix, all dead. Rip. But uh Patrice and her friend have, you know, our home, they're far enough away from the explosion that they're okay. Um, Flip gets there just in time, yelling at the other officers to let him go, um, or to to let Ron go. Um, so luckily Ron is Ron is released, and that he's okay. So then we cut to Ron and Patrice at a bar. They're in a booth, and my one note is that they're super cute together. Um, they're flirting. Yeah, they're adorable. Um, and then fucking Landers slides into the booth next to her, immediately starts harassing her, um, and then immediately starts harassing him, um, just pushing buttons. Uh uh Patrice asks if he recognizes her, and she, you know, says, Oh, you know, you pulled me over that day, and Ron pushes him. Landers runs his fucking mouth about how he can do whatever he wants, how he'll get away with anything. And then turns out Ron was wearing a wire and everyone was listening, and Landers gets arrested. And I was like, that's justice. And I was like, this is too movie of an ending, but I'm really glad I'm glad it happened.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:04

I love it. I love, yeah, because Jimmy and Flipper in the other booth, and then the chief oxen. Yeah, and everyone's like, Yay!

SPEAKER_00 2:04:12

Taking out the trash. This guy sucks. Yeah. So Patrice helped the cops. Yay! Maybe it's not so bad after all. Maybe we have some common ground. Uh, we'll get there. But yeah, so we have Ron back at work. He is being greeted by co-workers. It's the vibes are good. He's so excited. Like the sergeant is excited, he hugs him. I know. I honestly, I was like, things are going so well, this feels like a dream sequence. I was like, I love this, I'm happy. But it was like, what? This vibe is really up. Um, the chief is happy. There haven't been any crossburning since uh since Ron started doing this investigation. And then he gets to tell them that there were budget cuts, and so the investigation is over. He is pulling they did too good a job. They did too good a job. They solved the problem too well. Um, so now Ron has to destroy all of his evidence. He needs to cease contact with the KKK. Um, everyone is pissed, nobody is happy about it. Um, so yeah. Uh so we get Ron sitting at his desk. He has one of the a document like over his trash bin. He hears the phone ringing, he knows that it's fucking one of his friends. Um he rips up the document instead, throws it in the trash, he ignores the phone, he walks outside, and then he stops, and then he turns back around and he runs back inside, and it's his friend David Duke, and he's just so sad about that attack. It's just man, it's so crazy what happened. And then we get all this front. He's got Jimmy and Flip and the sergeant listening and just laughing the entire time. And then finally, they're just cracking up the entire time, and then finally, uh finally Ron is like, Hey, do you do you know who I am? Are you sure? Aura, you sure you don't know who this guy is? And just completely blows his own cover, tells off David Duke, talks so much shit, and then hangs up. And you get it's so cathartic and so good, and you get this incredible shot of just David Duke in his silent, empty office, just sort of reeling, which we know is fiction, unfortunately. But I love it. It's real good. It feels good. I know. Um, but this is the point where I write, oh no, there are 10 minutes left. Um, and luckily it's not, oh no, like it's okay. Um, but I did I did get worried for a second. Um yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so we are at, we are back at Patrice's house. Ron has his uh KKK membership card. Um, he is gonna toss that. She asks if he's gonna quit being a cop too. And he says, you know, he's he's not going to. It's still important. He still has work to do. She kind of balks a little bit. She says that she really can't do this, that she's, you know, she's not really sure how she feels about it. He wants to talk. He's like, well, you know, maybe we can talk about it, but then they hear a knock at the door. Um, they both pull out guns immediately. She just really's like, What are you doing? She's she's ready, and it's great. And then we yeah, and then we get this, they both uh look at the front or look at the door, they raise their guns, and then we get this incredible shot of them on that the the platform, just the dolly, yeah. The dolly just advancing down the hallway, this long stretching hallway towards this door, and it feels it feels really reminiscent of those like 70s era, like except specifically like black posters, yeah, like all of the posters. Yeah, it's it's so good, it's so specific. Um, but yeah, so we get this like dramatic shot towards the end of this hallway, towards a door, and then we see a cross burning up a hill across the street because the investigation's over, so they're back. Um, we get a close-up of a burning cross reflected in someone's eye specifically. It's such a good shot. Um, and they they, you know, are they back at it? They start chanting blood and soil, and then we cut to footage of Charlottesville riot in 2017, and I wrote, and those fucking tiki torches. God, yep, I yeah, yep, yep. All of that, the those initial marches, um, them chanting Jews will not replace us, the riots that next day, the police brutality, specifically uh footage of Trump hemming and hawing about about this very fine people. Yes, I literally I wrote this is the very fine people speech, isn't it? And I just yeah, and it just it came back and it just yeah, just him saying, Well, you know, not not all of these people were Nazis. Um, some of them just, you know, suck a little bit. And I I yeah, it's terrible. Um, I think I hate that people's um that the in that march, I don't like that uh some people's faces were blocked. Um, I think that's kind of cowardly. I don't care for that. Um, I wish that, you know, they weren't, but that's that's just me. I'm sure there, I'm sure there are probably some restrictions. That's the footage that they could get. Oh, that's a good point. I wonder, yeah, I wonder if that was like if that's what's being shown everywhere. If that's all that was available. Yeah, no, that's a good point. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I I'm sure Spike Lee would show what he could. Yep. That's a good point. I was just like, how? How is this happening? But no, it's not. But yeah, I um at this point, I wrote, um uh uh at this point I wrote, let me just say this. I have not voluntarily listened to Trump speak in 10 years. If I can not listen to his fucking voice, I do. If I can read a transcript, I will read an article, I will do anything before listening to him. But oh my god, he looked so much less decrepit in 2017. He looked so much less ghoulish. Honestly, I was like, you look like a like a human being, and I'm not used to seeing you look like this. Like that's crazy. Um, those were almost complete sentences, and it's Buck Wilde. But yeah, uh, then we get uh we get David Duke speaking at Charlottesville, which I think this was the thing that fucked me up the most. Because I was just like, I don't What do you mean he's still around? One, what do you mean he's still around? Two, what do you mean he looks like he's 50? Like he does not he he has a portrait somewhere in his house, I'm sure, that is aging instead of him. It he has to. It sucks. Um, but yeah, but just him saying, you know, uh speaking as we've heard very, you know, very calmly, very rationally. Um, and he reference he makes a reference to Trump saying, This is the first step towards taking America back. Um, and then we get footage of that fucking car running through protesters and running over, you know, and and killing Heather Heyer, which we get the the dedication at the end. We get a really great, like on the scenes like interview, like you know, live reactions, like what was being recorded at the time. But one of the last things that we hear specifically is this is our town. We do not want those motherfuckers here. And it just it's it's the feeling that you're that you still get from all of this all of these kinds of of protests. It's like we don't it's not that we want anyone here to fight. Like we don't want these fights. We want we don't want this to be happening at all. And like the idea that it's not like cool, like, you know, yeah, let's let's fight it out. It's like no, you We're only fighting. Nobody wanted this. Yeah, it's like we're only fighting because they fought first. We're only fighting because y'all fucking started it basically.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:09

Um they want violence. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:11

Yeah. And then when when they are met with violence, it's like, oh, look, look what happened, look what they did. Um, which is exactly what happens with landers earlier in the in the movie. Um, but yeah, so we get we get the the tribute to Heather Heyer, um, and then we get an upside down American flag, which is the signal for distress, uh, that fades from red, white, and blue to black and white. And then that is the end of this movie. And it is shocking how relevant every bit of this is in 2026. So many lines, it's so close to home. As someone who saw this the year it came out, what what did this feel like in 2018? Like, did it feel the same, I think?

SPEAKER_01 2:13:02

Uh not to me, but you know, as a cis white woman, like I am like this is I am by no means an expert in any of this. So it it feels more impactful now, I feel like, than it did then for me. Yeah. I had never seen a spikely film, so maybe also that was part of it as well. It felt like this is a very strong movie, a strong stance, very, very not not radical. Um, but like it had a message. Yeah, you knew what the message was. It was making a statement. Yeah. It's there we go. Yes, it was making a statement. And I think I got it to some extent, but I think I feel it more, especially within the dialogue of the film now than I did then. Yeah. So it like it feels more important now in some ways, uh, because that was the first term of the presidency, and then we skip four years, and then we get the second term of this presidency, and you're like, oh, yeah, this is this is just a continuation, and so so it's it's only gotten worse in so many ways. Yeah. So yeah. Like yeah, I mean, I I I just remember loving it, but uh understand, I mean, understanding to the extent that I can the statement that was made by this movie and thinking that it was it was great, like great as in like very well done and important at the time and and then and and should have been made and and all of that.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:38

Yeah. I agree. I definitely I think even even as someone who was as politically sort of, you know, aware, like trying to stay aware and and as involved as I was in like, you know, 2016 and stuff, I feel like, I mean, like you're saying, like as a white woman, like I feel like there are a lot of things that like we, you know, were a little bit more insulated from. And I feel like especially talking to my friends who are minorities, my friends who are trans, my friends who are, you know, non-Christian, like any of my friends who are who are set up to be othered by this system, felt that so much sooner than a lot of cis white people did. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, and I and I feel like it's something where like I I feel like especially like, you know, uh heading up to like the the 2024 elections, like there was there's a lot of like you sort of got like the stereotype of like the pink, like you know, pussy hats and like the sort of like like like the you know, like the benevolent white lady, you know, protester. And then it's like, no, this isn't actually making a difference. You need to, you need to yell, you need to get louder, you need to stop agreeing to disagree with your friends. Like you gotta actually make a stance. And I feel like in 2016, not as many people or you know, 2017, 2018, I don't feel like people were ready to do that. And I feel like now a lot more people are seeing the importance of making that stance. But I feel like also, like, especially within like protests, like a lot of, you know, black communities have been the ones leading that movement and saying, you guys need to support us in this. Um, and I feel like this is, you know, this was definitely an important movie at the time because it was, you know, starting that conversation of you guys need to support us in this because this very specifically targets us, but also, you know, once once they're done targeting us, who else are they gonna target? And, you know, you know, every other minority and you know, every woman or you know, unmarried person, like especially unmarried women, uh, you know, every every possible subcategory of like, oh, well, this isn't that's not us exactly. Yeah, it's like, well, you're not, you know, we're not all on the same page. It's like, oh, okay, we need to, we need to catch up. Um, but yeah, I think I think you're right. Like, I think it is something where if I had watched this in 2018, I think I would have, I think I would have enjoyed it and I think it wouldn't it still would have had an impact. I think that now the fact that it's like, oh no, we're still we're still doing this, we're still talking about this, we're still hearing this, is the rhetoric still being used. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's I think it's even you're right, it is even more impactful to hear it just as clearly as as it was eight years ago. But but yeah, I loved this. I'm so glad that this was on the I'm so glad that you suggested this one. I'm really glad I watched this movie. It was great.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:39

I'm so glad. Yeah, yes, good. If I if I just gave you one that you really liked, then I'm happy. Like we can we can end here. We're doing we're doing great. Look at this. Six in, and I got a really good one. Let's go. I'm winning, baby. Oh, yeah, man. Um okay. I need to write this down. Who gives the rating first? Oh, you need to give the rating first, right? Or no?

SPEAKER_00 2:18:03

I well, I have mine written down. Do you want to give your 2018 rating and then your today rating?

SPEAKER_01 2:18:09

Oh, that's right. Because you have two.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:11

Yes. I technically.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:13

What did Past Emily think of this movie? So Past Emily was pretty hype. Past Emily gave this a 10 out of 10. Ooh! Yes. And that's there's only one other one. No, two on this page that are also a 10, and it's one, two, three, four, five, seven, eight, nine, ten, five, twelve, thirty, fourteen, fifteen. Out of 16 movies, only three are tens. Oh wow. So I feel like I'm so stingy.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:43

And that's just one page. I feel like I'm so stingy on the case.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:45

That's from like tens. I don't know. Like I feel like we were also seeing so many though that I feel like it was easy to be like, I loved this. That's true. Um, versus like, this was fine. Yeah. You know, because this this is from June to October of 2018.

SPEAKER_00 2:19:03

Yeah, I feel like I feel like weekly that's such that's a wider pool. So it's not just like, well, I saw two movies and this one was better than the other.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:11

So yeah, no, and literally like the week before I have a 9.5, you know. And then the week after I have an eight. So, you know, it's just what do I come out with? I mean, there's a six on here. There you go, so there's a seven, so yeah. Uh that's funny. Yeah. All right. Um, gosh, I feel like it's hard to argue with that. Like the only, the only thing I was like, man, this dance sequence is kind of long. But like that, you know, like that's really it. Yeah, it's really like, what are your real qualms about it? Yeah. That and then the whole the KKK ad. Like that's it. Yeah. And then they say immediately Walter calls back to me. He's like, I'm from the organization. And it's like he literally called your number for the the KKK.

SPEAKER_00 2:19:56

We don't call it that. We don't? What do you mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:00

So gosh, I guess I'm gonna go with uh 10 out of 10 wires. Oh yeah. You took mine.

SPEAKER_02 2:20:09

God.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:10

No, yes, no, you're fine. Um no, that's great. Um, yeah, I I agree. Like, I really, I really enjoyed it. I liked it a lot. I'm gonna go, I gotta pick another thing real quick. Um I'm I don't want to say bricks of C4. I literally was skimming. I was skimming through my notes and I was like, everything sucks. Aren't good notes. I know wires are the only good things. Um I'm so sorry. No, you're okay. Um I'm gonna I'm gonna say nine out of ten telephones. I don't know. Oh, that's that's still a good thing. Yeah, I mean the telephone is really like you know a central character. Um I my uh I mean if you really think about it, it's it's the the fourth, fifth, whatever number the character. Um 10th? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um yeah, I I think nine out of ten. My my note as I was reflecting on it, I was like, I I think in my heart of hearts, I wanted more resolution. Like I wanted, I wanted to see like, you know, what happened then? Like, did they hire another black cop? Like, did Patrice and Ron figure it out? But I think I think especially like the point is like I think the point is that there is no clear resolution. The fact that we're still talking about this 50 years later, like it's yeah, you know, it's not gonna get tied up neatly. It's like, oh, you know, the like as soon as we stop surveilling them and and you know, figuring everything out. Working against them. Yeah, exactly. As soon as we act stop actively opposing them, they're out fucking burning crosses again. It's just like, okay, yeah, like this. I think that's the central message. I think it's just, I don't know. I think that's the only thing that like as a movie I wanted that. But I think as a that's fair, as a as a piece of art and as a statement, I think it it does its job. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:02

For sure. Yeah, yeah. We did it. I think I covered if it holds up. I think we're Oh, 100%. Yeah, it unfortunately tragically it holds up way too well. Sorry. Well, I guess I guess more like my opinion of it also holds up. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, it's as good as I remember. Yes, yes. It makes me as uncomfortable as I remember, but also like I left the movie thinking it was so good again. Yeah. So um, yeah, just yeah, great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:30

It's good. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm glad I watched it. Not one I would watch every year. No, no, it's it's it's it's enjoyable and it's fun in a lot of places. It's still heavy at the end of the day. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:44

I have been thinking about some of those scenes since I watched it Monday night.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:48

Like they have been playing in my head. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:49

And I'm like, none of them are good.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:51

No, no, it's it's all the bad ones. It's all the ones where you're like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I don't want to think about this. Yeah, just the God, the the fucking locked in a room with the lie detector test. Oh, God, like crush. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:04

Yeah. Just like I don't know. I thought that was I thought that was so funny because flip was so good. No, it was no, it was really insane.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:10

It was definitely really funny, but it was also just like the tension of just like heart like climbing in my throat. It's like, put the gun down. I'm just like, fuck, fuck, fuck, okay. And he says it's so casually. Yeah. It's just like, hey man, what's going on? What are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 2:23:23

Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:25

Um, but yeah, I think, I think we did it. Um, but yeah, if you have seen this movie and would like to talk about how frustratingly timely it still is, um, I definitely want to hear what you thought of this one. Um, we are on Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky, and Letterboxed. Um, Sister Cinema Swap is too long. Uh, so we are S-I-S-T-R CinemaSwap on Letterboxed. Um, but all the other ones were Sister Cinema Swap. Come talk to us.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:54

Woohoo. Yeah. Uh, we also want to thank Jenny Crowley for our amazingly adorable artwork. Nick Heredia for our awesome themes music, and to thank you all so much for listening to this still fairly new podcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:06

Yeah, we appreciate you so much. Come talk to us. Let us know what movies you haven't seen. Tell us. Leave a review. Yeah, leave a review. Five uh five stars, please. Yes. Five out of five. Five out of five, yes. Would recommend. Would recommend, please. Please.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:24

Yeah. Recommend to friends. Please. Share with others. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:31

I don't know. Um, I'm not sure. I yeah, I don't know how that works. Um, anyways, thanks. We'll yeah. We'll talk to you soon. We'll see you at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:44

We'll see you at the movies. Cinema. At the at the Cinema.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:48

We'll we'll come up with something about it. The the theater. The theater to the theater.