S1 Episode 3 - Living Life Upside Down with Eilidh Whiteford

In this engaging conversation, Eilidh Whiteford shares her unique journey from a political career to becoming a mother at 50. She reflects on her experiences in academia, the challenges of navigating the political landscape, and the joys and difficulties of motherhood later in life. Eilidh discusses her experiences with menopause, the societal perceptions of older mothers, and the importance of work-life balance. Her story is one of resilience, adaptation, and what it means to be a mother and a professional in today's world.

Eilidh Whiteford was born in 1969 and grew up on the Banffshire coast. After studies in literature at Glasgow University and the University of Guelph, Canada, she taught in adult education before building a career in the voluntary sector. From 2010 to 2017 Eilidh served in the House of Commons as MP for Banff and Buchan. During that time, she was the SNP spokesperson for Work and Pensions, and for Agriculture and Fisheries. Eilidh lives in Cruden Bay with her husband and son, and a grumpy cat. She now works for the strategic advisory firm, True North.  

Takeaways

• Eilidh transitioned from politics to consultancy, leveraging her experience.
• Her leap into politics was influenced by a chance conversation at an event.
• Eilidh served as an MP for seven years, achieving significant milestones.
• She became a mother at 50, which she describes as living life upside down.
• Eilidh experienced perimenopause while navigating new motherhood.
• She found the challenges of motherhood to be a great equaliser.
• Eilidh emphasises the importance of adapting to work-life balance.
• She reflects on the infantilising nature of maternity care for older mothers.
• Eilidh believes age is just a number and encourages others to embrace their journeys.

Sound Bites

“Even if you're winning the argument, you may not be winning the vote.”

“I've never heard a parent yet who doesn't say they're constantly exhausted and constantly working really hard at it…it's a great equaliser in lots of ways. 

"You can't do HRT while you're still breastfeeding. So I just had to get on with it.”

“If you were a kid in school learning about this [menopause], you'd probably forget it and think, nah, that's not for another 30 years or whatever. But it might help you know what's going on with your mother”

Resources:

UK Parliament: https://members.parliament.uk/member/3911/career

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eilidh_Whiteford

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eilidh-whiteford-979a6a4

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

03:20 From Politics to Public Affairs

04:23 Academic Journey and International Experience

07:17 Transitioning to Politics

11:35 Life After Politics: Becoming a Mother at 50

13:04 Navigating Menopause and Motherhood

16:39 Experiences as an Older Mother

17:45 Reflections on Age and Parenting

22:24 Balancing Career and Family Life

26:23 Cin Cin

27:13 Outro

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Get in touch: hearmeroarhere@gmail.com or via our website hearmeroarhere.com

Transcript

Hear Me Roar (00:33)
Here we are again. Yes, here we are. And today we're going to be talking to Eilidh Whiteford, who's a former MP.

What about you? What have you been up to? 

Well, over on my Facebook page, I've been coming out in solidarity with a female poet this week. 

Wow.

Donna Ashworth, who was absolutely slated in the Times. Now bear in mind she's got, she's had several number one bestsellers in the Times. And this columnist completely ripped her and other similar poets apart saying that, you know, that they were like getting in the way of highbrow poets and what have you. And it's just absolutely appalling. 

So did you just go ‘saddle my high horse Marjorie.’

I did. I said, get my soap box, bring it hither. So I climbed onto my soap box and supported her and said it was outrageous. And everybody piled on and agreed it was outrageous because nobody should be attacking anybody in any newspaper or anywhere else for that matter. 

No, no. And people who write poetry are generally doing it from a very good place. 

Yeah, exactly. 

And they're the nicest people in the world. 

Yes, well, this lady is. This lady's lovely, lovely lady. But yes, just outrageous to attack people. Inexplicable. 

And unnecessary. However, today we're speaking to another lovely lady, Eilidh Whiteford. Now Eilidh was born in 1969 and she grew up on the Banffshire coast. Banffshire is in the north east of Scotland. After studying literature at Glasgow University, Eilidh went off to Canada for her post-grad studies and then she came back to Scotland where she began her career in the voluntary sector. So from 2010 to 2017, she says turning over the bit of paper, she served in the House of Commons as MP for Banff and Buchan. And I do like a bit of Banff and Buchan. 

I've heard you do, darling. 

During that time, she was the SNP spokesperson for work and pensions and for agriculture and fisheries. 

Get that out. 

Yeah, Ran out of breath there. Eilidh lives in Cruden Bay. And she lives with her husband, son and a grumpy cat. And she now works for the strategic advisory firm True North. So today's episode is living life upside down. And Eilidh has truly inspired both of us. And you will find out in a moment exactly why.

Hear Me Roar (03:21)
Hi Eilidh lovely to meet you. You're a former MP who, in your own words, has lived life upside down. You've become a mum at 50 for the first time, but we're going to get to that. But before we do, we wanted to ask you what you're doing now in your post-MP career.

Eilidh Whiteford (03:26)
Lovely to meet you ladies as well.
Well, I'm now working in public affairs. I'm working for a small, fairly new consultancy called True North. And we offer strategic advice, mostly to businesses, quite a lot in the energy and financial services sectors.

Hear Me Roar (04:05)
So does that touch on the political side? Do you get to draw from your experience there?

Eilidh Whiteford (04:10)
Very much tapping into my political experience, yeah. But also using a lot of communication skills that I've built up over the years. So it's good fun. I'm working with a great bunch of people. I really enjoy what I'm doing.

Hear Me Roar (04:23)
That's fantastic. And so in your early career, you started off at Glasgow University where you graduated with first class honours in English and Scottish literature. And then you ended up in Canada for your post-grad studies. How did that come about?

Eilidh Whiteford (04:46)
Well, I was coming towards the end of my first degree, one of my professors and I were just discussing if I was going to do anything further. And he suggested it was him who planted the seeds really said, you know, have you thought about, going somewhere else and going overseas and just getting the benefit of that international experience? And then he had somebody in mind for me to study with a wonderful academic who's no longer with us called Katherine Kerrigan and she was based at Guelph in Canada. So she was over in Scotland for a conference. So I met her, we had bit of a discussion and one thing led to another and about a year later, I ended up in Toronto Airport and spent, did a master's degree at Guelph in Canada where they've got this amazing library that has some of the best resources anywhere in North America for Scottish culture, for Scottish history and literature because they were bequeathed them. Obviously it's a part of Canada that has a lot of...
lot of connections to Scotland just because of the history. Lots of Scots have ended up in that area over the decades. as far as being an international student goes, it was a lot easier than some, but it was a hugely beneficial experience. I really loved my time in Canada.

Hear Me Roar (06:09)
There's no language barrier either, so that must have helped.

Eilidh Whiteford (06:12)
Well, it depends where you are. There's a lot of French spoken in Canada as well, of course. And my French was always rubbish. You probably remember Yvonne what it was like at school. I wasn't very good at French. But fortunately, you don't need it to get by. You can still get by in English.

Hear Me Roar (06:16)
So after you'd finished your studies, did you come straight back to Scotland? Or did you work out there?

Eilidh Whiteford (06:32)
I did, I came back to Scotland and I did a doctorate. I finished my doctorate in I think 1998 back in Glasgow. And then I worked in academia for a while as well. I did quite a lot around adult and continuing education. But I think by that point I kind of realised that it wasn't really what I wanted to do. I wanted to do other things and I was quite involved in other things. I was quite active politically and whatnot.

Hear Me Roar (06:52)
Mm-hmm.

Eilidh Whiteford (06:59)
I spent the next few years working in the voluntary sector, very much doing the kind of public affairs things that I'm doing now actually, not so categorically different, but obviously I was doing it more in-house rather than kind of agency work in that way.

Hear Me Roar (07:17)
So what made you take the leap into actually becoming an MP?

Eilidh Whiteford (07:21)
Well, I went to...an event, a political event, it was a dinner, it was a celebration event and I got talking to some people there really very late in the evening after quite a lot of wine had been drunk and somebody in quite a teasing way said, Eilidh would be a good candidate and I didn't say no quickly enough. I didn't say no, absolutely never and consequently next Monday morning I had an email in my inbox when I opened up my work email and this was the forms to fill out to go for candidate vetting and the rest really just followed from there.

Hear Me Roar (08:02)
Did you have any second thoughts though? Because that's quite a big step to go from what you were doing into public life.

Eilidh Whiteford (08:07)
Well it was, but I was at a stage in my life where I was kind of looking for what, okay, what's the next step going to be? And I don't know, it was a big thought because also there's no guarantee that you're gonna, first of all, get selected as a candidate and secondly, get elected. I mean, there's just no guarantees at all. It's a very, very insecure and quite whimsical kind of lifestyle in politics, you just never really know. There's definitely no job security, but there's also no, you know, things can turn very quickly. So it can be quite difficult to plan ahead. And you just never know, in a process like that, some of the local members might prefer someone else. Like I say, it's very whimsical. So I kind of entered into the process thinking, well, nothing ventured, nothing gained and got selected. There was supposed to be, everybody thought there was going to be an election in 2007. It was the election that never was. It was the one that all the, you know, I believe all the advertising hoardings had been bought and paid for and everything. And then Gordon Brown bottled it and that election just didn't happen and then everyone had to hang about for two and a half years. So I'd been through this really rapid process of selection, a very accelerated few months and then all of a sudden you're kind of in limbo for the next two and a half years.

Hear Me Roar (09:39)
Wow. But you went on and you did it for a good few years. Yeah. Well, that's a that's a fairly long time in any job as well these days, isn't it? So what when you when you had ended your career as an MP, what did you like feel…

Eilidh Whiteford (09:42)
Yes. Yeah, I was in the House of Commons for seven years, yeah.

Hear Me Roar (10:02)
…that you'd achieved and it sounds a little bit rude, doesn't it? Like, I don't mean that, but you must have walked away thinking to yourself, I did this, I did this, I did this, and I'm so proud.

Eilidh Whiteford (10:14)
Yeah, I mean, think politics generally, if you're an opposition MP of any party, really, you can sometimes feel like you're a bit of an extra in a pantomime. You've just got this sort of walk on part, but you know, it can be quite frustrating sometimes because even if you're winning the argument, you may not be winning the vote just because of the way the party system works. So I think, I think what you achieve in politics, I mean for me I managed to get a private members bill through the House of Commons and I was the only opposition MP of any party in the 2015-17 Parliament who managed to do that. So I was very proud of being able to get that actually onto the statute book. I think the other things are, you do a lot of things that are not so public where people come to you with problems that they have that they've found really intractable or can't solve. And you know, you do manage to help a lot of people on an individual basis. But in terms of changing policy, if you're on the opposition side, you don't have a lot of opportunity to really do that. You take the small wins, you take the wins on what you've been able to do and things that you've been able to raise, things you've been able to highlight.

Hear Me Roar (11:21)
No.
Mm-hmm.

Eilidh Whiteford (11:31)
But you're also very aware of what you can't do as well.

Hear Me Roar (11:35)
So after a wonderful career in politics you became a mum at 50 which in your words was living life upside down. Can you tell us about that? What did you mean by that?

Eilidh Whiteford (11:41)
I did.
Well, think it's, you know, I always imagined that I would have a family and I might do politics later in life. I certainly didn't think that I would do politics first and then have a family afterwards.

Hear Me Roar (12:03)
Mm-hmm.

Eilidh Whiteford (12:04)
Life doesn't always work out the way you want it to or the way you imagine it's going to. I just feel very very lucky that I do have a wee boy and he's great fun. He's hard work, he's great fun.

Hear Me Roar (12:12)
Mm-hmm.
They're all hard work. And that doesn't change the older they get. Sometimes they become harder work. Mine are their 20s and I'm still helping them. In fact, I did an open university course when I was in my 40s and I remember sitting there with my dad going, I bet you never thought you'd be helping me with my maths homework at 42, whatever it was.

Eilidh Whiteford (12:23)
Hahaha

Hear Me Roar (12:45)
So, got that to look forward to.

Eilidh Whiteford (12:45)
Thanks for that!
I do think though, I've never heard a parent yet who doesn't say they're constantly exhausted and constantly working really hard at it. You know, I kind of think it's a great equaliser in lots of ways.

Hear Me Roar (12:55)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

So thinking along those lines, if you were 50, where were you or were you anywhere in the menopause journey at this point?

Eilidh Whiteford (13:12)
Well, I was kind of, I think, looking back, I didn't really think about it like this at the time, but looking back, I was probably quite well into perimenopause. ⁓ I think it kind of creeps up on folk. You don't realise that that's what's causing symptoms, but I think in retrospect, it absolutely definitely was. And obviously, you know, I've gone through menopause since then.

Hear Me Roar (13:21)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

Eilidh Whiteford (13:37)
Yeah, that's been interesting.

Hear Me Roar (13:39)
Yes

Eilidh Whiteford (13:40)
To be honest, when it was at its worst, when I was struggling most with symptoms, I was still feeding the wee one. And you know, they're contraindicated. You can't really take anything for the menopause. You can't do HRT while you're still breastfeeding. So I just kind of had to get on with it, really.

Hear Me Roar (14:02)
So what sort of symptoms were you suffering?

Eilidh Whiteford (14:05)
Hot flushes. It's like the temperature would go from normal to just volcanic in a few seconds. And that all settled down. It just kind of disappeared as quickly as it came, to be honest.

Hear Me Roar (14:06)

Did the pregnancy hormones help with that?

Eilidh Whiteford (14:22)
I don't know. I mean, I think the pregnancy definitely reset my hormones a bit and probably offset some of those symptoms while I was pregnant. And certainly some of the perimenopausal stuff just didn't really bother me again. But then the hot flushes, which I hadn't been getting before I was pregnant, they caught up on me. But they kind of settled down a wee bit.

Hear Me Roar (14:40)
Yeah.

I think there'll be a lot of awe felt by some of our listeners, realizing that you coped with the menopause, which can be exhausting, and a newborn, which can be extremely exhausting, all at the same time.

Eilidh Whiteford (14:59)
Yeah, it's funny because I think as I get older I've got more stamina. I think I definitely don't need quite as much sleep as I used to need and I think I... I think I've... I don't feel... You know, I don't feel any more or less knackered at the end of the day than I used to. I think... I think I was probably also quite lucky with some of the menopausal stuff too that, you know, I know a lot of women have a really, really rough time and...have a lot of kind of hormonal swings and things and I was, I think I got off relatively lightly compared to some women. I think it's different for, you know, people are different. Different experiences.

Hear Me Roar (15:35)
Yeah, it is different. I mean, there's like 40,000 symptoms. You know how many symptoms there are Marie 

Well, yeah. Now, at one point I read there were 34. Now I've since read there were like 50. I don't know. It seems to change every time I read it. Thankfully you don't tend to get all of them. 

No. You just get a few of them. 

Eilidh Whiteford (15:36)

There are, and you don't, not everybody gets all of them, you know?

Yeah, exactly. I think I'm a bit stoic as well. I think I'm just a bit kind of, och, just get on with it if I can.

Hear Me Roar (16:04)
Yeah, but it was never taught in school and I think it is being taught a bit more now. It is being taught a bit more now. Sorry, put my teeth back in. 

Please do. I don't want them dropping out down your dress. 

When we were all at school, it was never talked about at all, even by your mum. Gosh, I mean, yeah.

Eilidh Whiteford (16:09)
No, that's true. That's very true.

Hear Me Roar (16:30)
I mean, my mum discussed periods with me by just throwing a packet of pads into the bottom of my wardrobe and saying, here you go, you'll need these someday. That was my entire birds and bees talk with my mum. But yeah, nobody discussed menopause at all. And all I knew was that you got hot flushes. And that was it.

Yes, that does seem to be the main symptom that people talk about and refer to, doesn't it?

Eilidh Whiteford (16:39)
And that was it. Yeah.

Hear Me Roar (16:58)
It's one of the more annoying ones.

Eilidh Whiteford (16:58)
Yeah, I think that's true.
And I think, okay, if you were a kid in school learning about this, you'd probably forget it and think, nah, that's not for another 30 years or whatever. But it might help you know what's going on with your mother.

Hear Me Roar (17:12)

Yeah, it's true. Very true.

Eilidh Whiteford (17:14)

It might be good education for why your mum's going a bit crazy.

Hear Me Roar (17:19)

Why does she keep running out into the snow naked? Why was she calm two minutes ago and now she's absolutely raging?.

Eilidh Whiteford (17:22)

Yeah, exactly. Why does she need…? Why is this house freezing now?

Yeah. Yeah.

Hear Me Roar (17:45)

So how did you find being an older mother, especially like when you had to go to... because I had my first at 33 and my second at 36. When I went to maternity appointments, I was surrounded by really young mothers and I felt quite sort of, you know, old and out of place. How did you deal with that? Were you aware of it? Did you feel anything?

Eilidh Whiteford (17:56)

Well, the first anti-natal class I went to, I walked into the room and I saw a woman who looked about my age sitting in the seats. I thought, I'll go and sit beside her and I'll just make small talk or whatever. It turned out she was there with her daughter.

Yeah, I mean there is an age gap but it's also, I think there are a lot more older mums now and you know I'm still probably, I'm still probably the oldest mum in the playground but I'm not the oldest parent I don't think. I think there are dads that are older and I think there are, I think there are, you know there's quite a lot of mums in their forties now, really. And that doesn't feel like such a big age gap and you know it keeps me young.

Hear Me Roar (18:18)

What about did you get called a geriatric mother? Because that's such a horrible term. Yeah.

Eilidh Whiteford (18:43)

I think that's the term. I mean, I think that is the term. You just, you know, what's wrong with that? No, I mean, it's, it's, yeah, I've been called worse. I think maybe, you know, having been in politics, you just develop a much thicker skin and realise, lots of people are not going to like you. And you just kind of deal with that. You just don't, don't worry too much about it.

Hear Me Roar (18:48)

Yeah.

Did you find, sorry I'm jumping in, did you find that the system was more geared towards younger mums than geriatric mums?

Eilidh Whiteford (19:18)

I'll tell you, it made me more aware of things that I found quite infantilising. Like for example, I remember going to the maternity unit in Aberdeen and on the wall there was this almost like this frieze in kind of pastel-y kind of baby colours. And it was, at eight weeks your baby is the size of a banana, at 10 weeks it's the size of an aubergine. I think…

Hear Me Roar (19:25)

Yeah.

Eilidh Whiteford (19:41)

…oh, is this how they're teaching it in medical school now? You know, like, we're not five. This is hospital for grown-up women, not a hospital for little children. So why are you infantilising grown women who are there for medical care? You know, it just didn't feel like a grown-up space for grown-up people and maybe just being a bit older and a bit kind of around the block a few times, I was more conscious of that.

Hear Me Roar (19:44)

Using fruit!

Mm.

Yeah. Yeah. I think you're probably, you're probably right. And I think 20 year old me would have been a bit like, Ooh, but, now I would be.

Eilidh Whiteford (20:15)

Yeah. If I wanted to decorate a nursery I would be in, you know, I'd be in B and Q. I wouldn't be in the hospital. It just seemed, I didn't like it anyway. I thought it was a bit... it kind of sets a tone that then, you know, it's easier for staff to treat you like you're a child rather than an adult woman.

Hear Me Roar (20:24)

Mm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Now, I remember when I was out with my mum and she had fostered kids, my mum, and she'd adopted two boys. And we were out with the youngest, who was maybe two or three at the time. And the lady in the supermarket called me his mum and called her his granny. I was mortified. Have you kind of faced any sort of unconscious prejudice?

Eilidh Whiteford (21:09)

To be honest, only once has somebody said, is this your grandson? And otherwise no. I think that's probably the interaction. It's very obvious when somebody's with their granny and when they're with their mum. So yes, I am older, but I'm not so markedly older, I don't think. I don't feel it anyway. Maybe people are just too polite to say anything.

Hear Me Roar (21:22)

Yeah. No, you don't look it either. No, you definitely don't look it. So, you know, to be fair.

Eilidh Whiteford (21:36)

Well, I think the wee one just keeps me on my toes.

Hear Me Roar (21:38)

Keep you fit. It's a lot to do with how you are in yourself as well. Like you say, if you've got a lot of energy and go about you, you're able to do all the kind of running after a five year old and all the things that you do, people, you know, age is really just a number, isn't it? You're projecting. 

Eilidh Whiteford (21:58)

I suppose I just think it's a number. Yeah, I try not to think about it too much. But, you know.

Hear Me Roar (22:06)

I mean, we all feel like that regardless of having a child in later life, don't we? We all feel age is just a number and I'm just going to crack on with it. Definitely.

Eilidh Whiteford (22:11)

Because I don't really feel any different than I did at 20 something, you know? You're the same person.

Hear Me Roar (22:18)

No, you don't do you?

So back to where you are now, did having a child influence your career choice now at all?

Eilidh Whiteford (22:31)

Yeah, I don't think there's any way around that. I mean, my son was born just a few months before the Covid lockdown. So I was still in maternity leave during lockdown and I ended up looking after my dad as well. So I was kind of a carer as well as a mum at that point.

Hear Me Roar (22:40)

Wow.

Mmm.

Eilidh Whiteford (22:55)

Yeah, I didn't think it would be possible really to work full time at that point and I still don't, if I'm honest. And that's partly also about geography too because I live in the sticks in Aberdeenshire. You know, I would have to add commuting time onto any working time to do that.

Hear Me Roar (23:14)

Yeah.

Eilidh Whiteford (23:17)

I'm quite happy to be... I'm working part-time at the moment. Sometimes it's a bit more than that. But it suits me quite well. I certainly... I think it would be very difficult for me to do elected office again in the same way. I think if you're going to do that, I think a lot of families struggle. You either need to accept that you're not going to be the primary carer or you have to kind of relocate your family to where the Parliament is.

Hear Me Roar (23:38)

Yes.

Yeah.

Eilidh Whiteford (23:44)

Whether that's

London or Edinburgh, kind of have to... If you want to see them during the week, that's the way you kind of have to do it. So it's not hugely practical. It's not what I want to be doing at the moment. Having waited a very long time to have him, I kind of want to be around, you know.

Hear Me Roar (24:00)

Yes, yeah. You want to spend the time with him, obviously, yeah.

Do you work from home then?

Eilidh Whiteford (24:09)

Mostly. Yeah, mostly I work from home.

Hear Me Roar (24:11)

Because there's a lot of companies and governments pushing back against home working now but it makes such a difference.

Eilidh Whiteford (24:16)

Yeah, and I get that. I do get that. I understand, like, for commerce, if you're in an office, you are you're also boosting the local economy in that area. You know, you go out, you buy coffee, you buy lunch, you nip out to the shops, all that. And that all kind of helps keep a town centre vibrant. And I also get that in a business sense, it's different having a conversation on Teams or Zoom than it is having a face-to-face and a lot of that water cooler type conversation doesn't happen in the same way. But on the other hand, the kind of thing I'm doing, I need peace and quiet to, actually think. And I'm not sure that contemporary open plan office spaces work terribly well for me personally.

Hear Me Roar (24:45)

Yeah.

Mm, yeah.

Eilidh Whiteford (25:04)

I much prefer to be somewhere very quiet where I can concentrate and also read, but also focus. So I think it's horses for courses. There's pros and cons. I also think that I wouldn't necessarily be in the workplace in the same way if I was having to do the job I'm doing from a city-based location. What would happen, I would probably do a less well-paid job much closer to home.

Hear Me Roar (25:14)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Eilidh Whiteford (25:32)

which I think is what a lot of women end up doing.

Hear Me Roar (25:35)

Yeah, I think so. I think you just have to adapt, don't you? 

You do, yeah.

Eilidh Whiteford (25:39)

Yeah, everybody has to find a solution they can make work.

Hear Me Roar (25:44)

Yeah, that's what it's all about. Finding your way through. A way that works for you and your family. And you've done, you've achieved some pretty incredible things in your time. And I can only think that having your son is the most incredible.

Eilidh Whiteford (25:51)

Yeah. I wouldn't swap it for anything. Yeah, we're very lucky. But he's good fun.

Hear Me Roar (26:11)

Well, you truly are an inspirational woman proving that life does not have to follow a set pattern. Yeah, definitely. And you can beat it to your own drum.

But before you go, we're going to ask you about your cocktail. Is it a cocktail or a mocktail? Yes. It's a cocktail, right. So tell us if you were a cocktail, what would you be called and what would be your main ingredients and why?

Eilidh Whiteford (26:30)

It's a cocktail. Definitely a cocktail. I'd be a sloe gin Negroni because I love a good Negroni. I also love sloe gin so I would just spice it up a wee bit.

Hear Me Roar (26:46)

Just put them together. What's in a sloe gin  Negroni then?

Eilidh Whiteford (26:50)

Campari and sloe gin and vermouth, a sweet vermouth.

Hear Me Roar (26:55)

Yeah. Lovely. I've never had one of those. Might have to have one. Yeah, we'll definitely have to try one of those. 

Immediately. 

Immediately. Now. 

OK, well, thanks very much, Eilidh. All the best. Been lovely speaking to you.

Eilidh Whiteford (27:01)

Yeah.

Thank you ladies. Pleasure.