S1 Episode 6 - Triumph Over Adversity with Gillian Castle

In this inspiring conversation, Gill Castle shares her remarkable journey from a traumatic childbirth experience to becoming the first person to swim the English Channel solo with a stoma. She discusses the challenges she faced, her mental health struggles, and how she turned her experiences into a positive force by founding the charity Chameleon Buddies, which supports women affected by childbirth injuries. Gill's story is one of resilience, determination, and the power of community support, as she continues to advocate for awareness and change in the realm of childbirth trauma.

Gill is a middle-aged mother of a teenage boy, who has a permanent stoma after the traumatic childbirth of her son. After a diagnosis of severe mental health issues following the birth, including PTSD, Gill was medically retired from her job as a police officer. During her subsequent recovery, Gill has established an international charity dedicated to supporting women in the UK and Kenya to adapt to life after childbirth trauma or stoma surgery. In 2023, Gill became the first person to successfully swim the English Channel solo with a stoma, which was recognised by the Guinness World Records. 

Takeaways

Gill Castle is a former police officer and mother who faced severe childbirth trauma.

She has a permanent stoma due to complications from childbirth.

Gill became the first person to swim the English Channel with a stoma.

She raised £10,000 through her Bikini Challenge to support women injured in childbirth.

Gill founded the charity Chameleon Buddies to help women adapt to life after childbirth injuries.

Her mental health struggles included PTSD after her traumatic experience.

Gill emphasizes the importance of resilience and turning negative experiences into positive actions.

She is climbing Kilimanjaro to raise funds for a hospital wing in Kenya.

Gill advocates for the Birth Trauma Association and MASIC charity.

She is also writing a book about her experiences and journey.

Sound Bites

"I'm going to prove you wrong."

"I ended up raising £10,000."

"I believe that people are like chameleons."

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Transcript

Hear Me Roar (00:32)

Hello. Hi. You know it's us because we always start with a giggle, don't we? I know. And a hello. Hello. So what have we been up to this week? I've had a rotten time of it. You have had a horrible time on old F book. Yes. OK. So I put a joke on my Facebook page about sunbathing topless going in topless to ask my husband why he was being a bit fuddy-duddy about it and popped me boobs on the breakfast bar and said, what's the matter? And the joke was, and he could not look me in the eye. Right. Okay. So I don't think that's kind of, it's a little bit kind of naughty, a bit rude, it's not only teeny tiny bit around the edges. Yeah. Yeah. But it certainly did not warrant like the torrent. The absolute torrent of men coming on asking for pictures of my boobs. I sent you screenshots of the comments. That was just a few of them. 

No, I couldn't believe what I was reading from those comments. And some of them were seriously creepy. Like, I'll rub cream into them for you and things like that. Yeah, seriously sick-making and creepy. And one guy who works in a...special educational needs school with vulnerable kids. He sent me a message asking for pics. And someone else sent me a message asking for, asking if I was available for some fun with him and his wife or his girlfriend or something.

And to be honest, I'm surprised he's got a girlfriend. Well, so am I if he's prepared to say things like that. I mean, I was shocked. I was shocked when you said it and I was shocked when I read some of the comments. Yeah. I just, what is wrong with people? It was a joke. It was, you know, it's just, don't know. I just defies logic, really. And then when I challenged it in another post, people got offended. Mostly men, one woman, mostly men.

because, I didn't say I was offended, I just said I was really surprised at the attitude.

And I said, I'm not offended as such, just surprised that there was still these idiots around, you know, that mother nature hasn't lopped their todgers off yet. And then. I'd like to volunteer for that job. Yeah, exactly.

And you think kind of after everything that the world's seen the last few years with Harvey Weinstein, the awful thing that happened with Sarah Everard, all those things that have happened, BBC TV, people, disgracing themselves, all that, you'd think that people would get the message that, you know, just even if you think it.

Don't say it. Don't say say it. You certainly don't write it. Try not to think it. Try not to think it, but absolutely. But if you must. Prevent yourself from writing it. Control yourselves. Control yourselves indeed. So, yeah,

Yeah. Anyway, so we're talking to Gill today, Gillian Castle. Now she's a middle aged mum of a teenage boy who has a permanent stoma after a horrific childbirth.

And following that, she had severe mental health issues, including PTSD. And she was medically retired from a job as a police officer, which she loved her job. So that's really, really sad. She had to go through a heck of a lot. She lost, probably felt like she lost everything. So during her recovery, she established an international charity dedicated to supporting women in the UK and Kenya to adopt

Sorry, to adapt to life after childbirth, trauma or stoma surgery. And in 2023, Gill became the first person to successfully swim the English Channel solo with a stoma. And this was recognized by the Guinness World Records. So that was a fantastic achievement. Well done, Gill. And we'll go and meet her now.

Hear Me Roar (04:22)

Gill it's lovely to meet you. So you're a mum, a former police officer, wow, and you've done something absolutely fabulous and amazing, which you're going to tell us about today,

Gill Castle (04:23)

Hello.

you

Yeah.

yes, I was the first person ever to swim the English Channel solo with a stoma,

so I've had my stoma, well I've actually got a colostomy which means a stoma has been taken out of the large bowel, but I'll backtrack a little bit to explain how I got my stoma and then I'll explain exactly what a stoma is. So I've had my stoma since 2011, since October the 20th when I gave birth to my first and only child Sam. He got stuck during the delivery because he was six weeks early so he was really small.

and he got really tired so he couldn't help himself out. Because he got stuck, they had to use forceps to bring him out. And when they did that, they really badly damaged me. But unfortunately, they missed all of the injuries for nearly a week. And eventually, after a week, when I was found collapsed in the corridor by a male midwife, I wasn't actually able to speak very much at that point because I was completely incontinent both ways.

Hear Me Roar (05:36)

Wow.

Gill Castle (05:39)

You know, I was in so much pain I couldn't really communicate properly and when I said to him I can't do this anymore because of the pain he said well maybe it's your perception of the pain. Obviously it means it's in your head. So after that I was examined under gas and air and then they discovered the extent of my injuries which was, they're pretty graphic but hey ho, that's what we're here for. So I had a missed fourth degree tear.

Hear Me Roar (05:50)

Wow ⁓

Gill Castle (06:02)

So we have different categories of perineal tear when you have a baby. The most significant is the fourth degree tear, which means I was torn all the way through the rectum, the vagina, the internal and the external sphincter. I also had a very rare complication called a rectovaginal fistula. So I had a hole between the rectum and the vagina, which was why I was pooing out of my vagina. All of this had led to an enormous perineal abscess because of course,

Hear Me Roar (06:12)

Bye.

Mm-hmm.

my god.

Gill Castle (06:28)

All of my wounds were covered in poo for a week. So this caused an enormous abscess which should then burst, which is when I collapsed in the corridor. So they said the only thing that we can do is fit you with a stoma so that we can divert the poo away from your wounds and allow it to heal. So what a stoma is, is it's a bowel diversion surgery. And what they do is they cut into your abdomen, hole about the size of a 50 pence piece.

Hear Me Roar (06:31)

Mm-hmm.

Gill Castle (06:51)

then they cut into your bowel, for me the large bowel, they take out a section of bowel and put it onto your abdomen. That part of your bowel which is on your abdomen is called the stoma, which is actually a Greek word for mouth, and out of the stoma comes your waste comes your poo, and that goes into a stoma bag. Obviously as a result of that I had a lot of mental health problems, post-traumatic stress, hypervigilance, extreme anxiety.

Hear Me Roar (07:12)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Gill Castle (07:15)

And at that time I was a police officer on the front line in Bradford. And it was ultimately decided after two years that I wasn't physically or mentally capable of working on the front line. So I was medically discharged in 2013. So that's like a really gruesome little snapshot of a pretty miserable period of my life. But I'm really happy to say it didn't last.

Hear Me Roar (07:15)

⁓

Wow.

which

should have been the best period of your life as well.

Gill Castle (07:40)

It

should, it should, you know, and it's actually really difficult now. I'm 45, coming up 46, my son's a teenager. Had a miscarriage a couple years after he was born, which was horrifically dealt with by the hospital again. And it is quite difficult to accept that you are never ever going to have that opportunity to try again, you know, to have that experience that you would like to have.

Hear Me Roar (08:00)

Yeah.

Gill Castle (08:03)

And so that I've actually found that quite difficult in the last year or so to sort of come to terms with that again, because you're sort of grieving all the time for something that you thought you were going to have and you didn't have. And now I'm sort of grieving again because I'm now, you know, I'm not going to go back and do it all again now, am I? So, so, yeah, but I mean, I've got a lot to be thankful for as well. Definitely.

Hear Me Roar (08:11)

Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

No.

So

having the stoma has not held you back in the slightest. In fact, it seems to have spurred you on. If I remember rightly, you've done a half Ironman, a parachute jump, a 105 mile rat race, which includes cycling, kayaking and a trail run over 48 hours. You've gone scuba diving and you've done a bikini challenge and you've swum the channel. What on earth spurred you on to do all of these fantastic things?

Gill Castle (08:33)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Two things. Number one, a health visitor told me I would never be happy. And I thought, right, I'm bloody well yeah So I thought, right, I'm gonna show you. She said I could be happier, but I couldn't be happy. So I thought, right, and one thing you can never, no, I know, one thing you should never say to me is you can't do something. So somebody basically said, you're not gonna be happy. And I thought, I'm gonna prove you wrong. And of course, really my everything is to show my son that his birth didn't ruin my life because it hasn't.

Hear Me Roar (08:57)

No way!

Happier

Mm.

Gill Castle (09:20)

It hasn't prevented me from doing anything. And that's like my driving force really, to be honest, is to get back control and make my life my own. You know, I don't like it being dictated to you by anything or anyone. So.

Hear Me Roar (09:20)

No, no.

No, fair enough.

So tell us about this bikini challenge.

Gill Castle (09:34)

Well, I'm a very spontaneous person. I do lots of things spontaneously without full thought, which is a good job because I don't think I would do any of the things that I decided to do if I realised what was involved. And I decided during Covid when we all went a bit crazy that I wanted something that was going to give me a bit of a positive focus. So I completely spontaneously decided that I was going to wear nothing but a bikini for three open water swims or dips a week from

Hear Me Roar (09:55)

Mm-hmm.

Gill Castle (10:02)

October to May. I'd never got my stoma bag out in public ever in my life and I didn't own a bikini, rightly so. I mean who owns a bikini these days, especially when you've had a baby. So I had to go and borrow a bikini from some friends and I did lots of like live streaming on social media to try and you know get some raise some awareness of women injured in childbirth and things and

Hear Me Roar (10:03)

Wow.

Gill Castle (10:26)

It really took off, I think, quite frankly, because people had nothing better to do with their time than look at social media and this mad old middle-aged woman sitting in a bath in Northumberland, freezing cold in a bikini, swearing vociferously, chasing away the cat. So yeah, it went really well. I ended up raising £10,000.

Hear Me Roar (10:33)

in.

Yeah.

And is that

10,000 pounds? That's fantastic.

Gill Castle (10:47)

Yeah, yeah,

yeah for the birth trauma association.

Hear Me Roar (10:50)

So everything you've done, certainly recently, has been to raise money and to raise awareness, which is absolutely phenomenal. And you've now founded a charity called Chameleon Buddies. Would you like to tell us a bit about that?

Gill Castle (10:57)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah,

Yes, it was another spontaneous decision of mine. So as a result of this bikini challenge, the BBC had done a really short video of my challenge and it was seen by an American lady who's got a charity based at the GynaCare and fistula hospital in Eldoret in Kenya, which is in the northwest of Kenya. And basically she and her charity support women who've got fistulas like I did.

after birth and some of them were left with stomas. So she said to me, would you mind having a chat with some of them to kind of just show to them, you know, that your life isn't over as a result of having a stoma? And I said, yes, of course I can. Anyway, during the course of this online conversation that had with the two of these girls, I realized that they didn't have access to stoma bags. So what they use is crisp packets or tin cans or bread wrappers or bits of cloth. And we're talking about the ages of two to 76.

Hear Me Roar (11:36)

Yeah.

my goodness.

Gill Castle (11:55)

They're like the ages that we're supporting. And because we've got so many surplus supplies in this country, I fundraised to send them out and the girls were able to go back to school and the women were able to take part in business training workshops, et cetera. But basically what happened was organizations were saying to me, we can't really give you any money and we can't give you medical supplies if you're not a charity. And I said, well, I've never even been a trustee of a charity and literally don't know the first thing about charities.

Hear Me Roar (11:55)

Whoa. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Gill Castle (12:21)

but let's

create a charity. So that's what I did. I founded my charity, Chameleon Buddies, having not even been to Kenya at that point. So this was back in 2022. And the reason why it's called Chameleon Buddies is I believe that people are like chameleons. So we can adapt to changes in our circumstances like a chameleon. And we, as a charity, buddy up to help women to support them to adapt to changes in their life.

Hear Me Roar (12:31)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Gill Castle (12:48)

following childbirth, injury or stoma surgery in the UK, but mainly in Kenya. So that, yeah, that was the quite spontaneous, but it's changed my whole life.

Hear Me Roar (12:52)

Yeah.

Can

I ask something? I mean, you touched earlier on the trauma that you went through following the birth of your son, the effect on your mental health. yet you've gone on to do all these huge challenges and found a charity and do these absolutely amazing things. Has doing those things helped you?

Gill Castle (13:00)

Mm-hmm.

Hear Me Roar (13:21)

in terms of recovering from what happened to you, certainly mentally.

Gill Castle (13:25)

Yes, definitely. think number one, nothing that I do ever, ever in my life will be as bad as what I went through then. Like nothing, nothing that I try can be as bad as that. And there's actually a term for it, which I discovered a few years into my recovery and it's called post-traumatic growth. And what happens is some people respond to trauma by like recognizing how strong they are as a person and you are left a little bit.

Hear Me Roar (13:33)

No. ⁓

Gill Castle (13:52)

more like fearless like I've just said like nothing can be as bad as what you've already been through and you kind of realize what your own strength is and so then as a result of that it can make you feel even more powerful but obviously that can take you a long time to get to that point which I mean it did for me it took a long time but it's a bit like then it's a bit like building a wall or building steps up something you've got to start small so but each little brick each little bit of

Each little thing that you achieve, like the first time I went to a cycling class, I've never been to a cycling class in my life, especially not with a stoma. And I didn't even finish that class. But for me, I had gone to a class. So that was like a little brick, right? I've done that and nobody can take that little brick away from me. It's like when I got my degree in law, I always remember my dad saying, no one can ever take that away from you. So no one can ever take away anything that you achieve. And it's just about building on.

Hear Me Roar (14:22)

Thank

Yeah.

No.

Gill Castle (14:43)

building on that all the time. I think, but you do, get such a sense of achievement when you are turning something negative into a positive, but it's really, you just get so much joy from seeing other people thrive and knowing that you've been a part of that in some way. Cause that's what life's all about, isn't it really? When you've been through something utterly shit, you don't want other people to go through that experience. And if you can help them, you know.

Hear Me Roar (15:06)

Mm-hmm.

Gill Castle (15:08)

recover more quickly or adapt a bit better, then why wouldn't you want to try and help people? So, yeah, I just feel very lucky, to be honest. Yeah, very lucky.

Hear Me Roar (15:13)

Yeah. Yeah.

You are a very strong, determined, resilient lady. think you're probably one of the strongest women I've ever met. Definitely. Absolutely. Nothing has phased you, has it? You've just gone for everything.

Gill Castle (15:26)

Okay. Yeah.

I do. don't, mean, my husband will agree I'm a very strong woman. It's not particularly fantastic if you're married to them. behind every strong woman there's a really, really quiet man. Exactly. It was his birthday yesterday and I was like, I can't believe this. This is a day that's not about me. Every day should be about me.

Hear Me Roar (15:35)

Hahaha!

laughter

Scared man.

Yes, because

it's all about me, darling.

Gill Castle (15:56)

And

I know it's like, can we just get this day over and done with and go back to me? ⁓ But yeah, I mean, I am strong. I think it's because, like I say, just, I'm very, I mean, I was quite a difficult child because I've got willpower and I just don't like being told what I can and can't do. And I just, I felt like my stoma was telling me what I could and couldn't do. you know, surgeons had said to me, you can't scuba dive.

Hear Me Roar (15:59)

and then go back to me.

you

Gill Castle (16:21)

And then obviously I was told you can't be in the police anymore. then, you know, it's just a bit of a, you just start to think, actually I've got one life. Just one life. And I'm actually really pleased everything that's happened to me has happened to me because it's such a cliche, but we only have cliches because they're necessary and they're true. And the cliche is that you've got to make the best of the life that you've been given. I mean, and that's it. And I sort of drifted through my twenties drinking far too much and doing ridiculous things that I shouldn't have been doing.

Hear Me Roar (16:28)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Gill Castle (16:49)

not really appreciating the body that I've been given and the strength that I had and taking advantage of opportunities that came my way, never thinking I was capable of achieving great things. And now I just think I had my wake-up call, my massive wake-up call that actually you've just got to get out there and bloody well enjoy yourself, make the most of it.

Hear Me Roar (17:09)

I mean,

being a police officer, takes a certain strength of character anyway. You don't get many shrinking violets in the police force, do you? And it does. Yeah. So.

Gill Castle (17:19)

No, no you don't. Yeah, but you

know, I didn't apply till I was 27. You know, I didn't think I would ever get in. And it's funny because I'm really good in other people's dramas and situations. You know, I could bowl in and sort out some, like actually it was interesting. had somebody crashed into me when I was in Brighton a few weeks ago. Everyone was absolutely fine.

Hear Me Roar (17:34)

Yeah.

Gill Castle (17:42)

But he was an old guy and he was absolutely all over the place. And I was with a friend of mine who I've known for a few years, Nicola, who was on my channel boat and who comes to Kenya with me. And she was like, wow, Gill, I've never seen you behave like that. She said, you just went totally straight faced, uber professional, really calm and sorted everything out. And I said, yeah, because I have that side as well.

Hear Me Roar (17:58)

Mm-hmm.

So you've definitely built a group around you. You now have a support group called Chameleon Buddies and I'm right in thinking that you and others are climbing Kilimanjaro.

Gill Castle (18:12)

Mm-hmm.

Yes, so when I was doing all of my horrifically lonely training, which I'm sure we'll come on to I thought I wanted to I Wanted to give other people the opportunity to step out of comfort zones and achieve something and for them to make their Stoma or their trauma not the thing that's going to define everything that they do in life So I thought right. Well, what could we do? So I thought I know

Hear Me Roar (18:15)

Yes.

defines them.

Gill Castle (18:40)

perfect idea, we'll climb Kilimanjaro, which is the highest peak in Africa. So I recruited from around the UK for, and the only criteria was that you had to be a woman and you had to have experienced childbirth trauma or have a stoma. And they were the only two criteria. Didn't matter about age or anything. So we've got 20 of us who are going, nine who've got stomas, four have got traumatic birth history. Age ranges go from 30 to 60s.

and loads of different backgrounds, reasons why people have got stomas, what happened during their childbirth, everyone's completely different and that is happening in October and we are climbing to raise money to build a hospital wing in Kenya. It's going to attach to the hospital that we support and it'll be dedicated to stomas.

what I ultimately want to do is have like two stoma wards, so they'll have proper wards for the stoma patients, which they don't have at the minute, and a training area and everything. I aim high.

Hear Me Roar (19:30)

Mm-hmm.

It must

be so gratifying to know that you're making a difference, direct difference to people's lives. But not only just knowing that you're doing it, but you're going over to Kenya and you're seeing the difference that it makes when you're raising money, getting equipment out to them, all the rest of it. It just must be fabulous to see the difference that it's making in people's lives.

Gill Castle (19:50)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hear Me Roar (19:57)

Yeah, because people can raise money, can't they? Yeah, people can raise money, but you're not just raising it. Yeah.

Gill Castle (19:57)

It is, but again, I just feel so lucky. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I was going to say. I feel so lucky that I get to see.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I actually get to see who it's going to and the difference that it makes. And that's really, you know, I feel really grateful that I get that because like you say, lots of people, you donate money and you might see a picture, but I get to meet the people. So, yeah, I'm very lucky. Very lucky.

Hear Me Roar (20:10)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. ⁓

You work for the charity now, don't you? So how did that come about?

Gill Castle (20:25)

I do.

Yeah, so when I first set up the charity, like I said at beginning, was done without any real consideration for what the hell is involved in running a charity. And no intention of me ever working for the charity. But three years down the line, it's grown quite big. And it got to the point where we realized it actually needs to be run properly and not me in the toilets at work trying to like reply to emails and all this kind of stuff.

So what we did was I stood down from the charity and we had an open recruitment campaign and eventually after lots of interviews and discussion with the charity commission, I was offered the job of Chief Executive Officer, CEO. So I do that 16 hours a week, but I also work at Pets at Home.

Hear Me Roar (21:06)

Mm-hmm. Excellent.

Gill Castle (21:10)

I work there two days a week, I get, yeah, you know, I like to just be spontaneous and do lots of different things. So I work there and I get to see all the little puppies that come in and speak to all the customers and I love it. So yeah, so I have two completely different jobs. And I've written a book.

Hear Me Roar (21:10)

better home.

love that. I love that you do this majorly

important thing that's kind of changing lives. And then, you know, in the other half of you, is it pets at home, looking at ... Stroking gerbils.

Gill Castle (21:34)

⁓ I know, I do.

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I do. I clean up hamster shit half the week. It's great. It keeps me grounded.

Hear Me Roar (21:42)

But

not content with being involved with your own charity, you're also an advocate for the Birth Trauma Association, is that correct? And you're involved with the charity MASIC,

Gill Castle (21:55)

Yes, yes.

Yes, the Birth Trauma Association, this is a charity that's been going for more than 20 years, which I had never heard of after I had my birth. Found out about it when I was doing my half Ironman and they support women and their partners who've been traumatized by childbirth. So obviously that's something that's massively important to me. So I have been supporting them since about 2017. I do loads of advocacy for them.

I did lots of fundraising for them And then we've also got MASIC. So MASIC stands for the Maternal Anal Sphincter Injury Charity. they contacted me and asked me to be an advocate. When was it? was a few years ago now. And I did say to my husband, my gosh.

this charity have got in contact with me and asked me to be an advocate and I said, but I can't believe the charity has got the words anal and sphincter in it. said, and that is just typical. Like it really sounded very sexy. But anyway, don't mind about that though. They like, they do really, really important work. Obviously it's all about childbirth injuries. ⁓ But yeah, so I do a lot of advocacy for them as well. And I'm also on their advisory council.

Hear Me Roar (22:58)

Yeah. Yeah.

Gill Castle (23:04)

yeah, it's something I'm really, really passionate about. And I'm also joining the New Global Maternity Alliance, which Theo Clark, the former MP who was the chair of the Birth Trauma APPG, I was on the special advisory group for, has set up. So I'm involved with that as well. Yeah, so I'm pretty busy. Yeah, pretty busy. Yeah, no, and I've a book.

Hear Me Roar (23:22)

There's just no stopping you. your latest project is

you've written a book!

Gill Castle (23:30)

I've written a book and today I've sent off my first submission so I'm just waiting for my rejection. I'm stealing myself. I said to mum, I said to mum today, well I said to mum, said well JK Rowling got something like 20 rejections so yeah I'm just sending it off. I'm sending it off with very low expectations. You just, you know.

Hear Me Roar (23:36)

⁓ don't know. Don't know. Wait for the acceptance.

Yeah, yeah.

Gill Castle (23:55)

You've just got to wait and see, haven't you? But like my husband said, if you don't send it off, you'll never know. So there's only one way to find out, isn't there?

Hear Me Roar (24:00)

Well, no, exactly. Yeah. And

what's your book called? Are you happy to say?

Gill Castle (24:07)

Well,

yes, at the minute it's called Against the Current. that's what it's called at the minute. But I've really, really enjoyed writing it. Obviously it covers a bit of my childhood and then goes into the police and then the birth of the stoma and all the hideousness and then obviously the big swim and things at the end.

I did find it quite difficult actually revisiting all the trauma so in depth because of course it's all about how did that make you feel? Like really get your feelings out and I had to sort of live that experience again but for about three months so that was pretty miserable but I've done that bit now so I'm on to the good bit which is great I've enjoyed it

Hear Me Roar (24:33)

Yeah.

Yeah.

of

throw up some memories that you'd forgotten? I don't mean the bad memories, but just as you're going through everything and you're thinking, and you suddenly think, gosh, I'd forgotten about that. I'll include that.

Gill Castle (24:58)

Yeah,

yeah, and do you know, it's one of the stories that makes me laugh is when I was with my channel swim and I've got like, so when you do a channel swim, get an observer and your team and your crew who write down like literally every moment, every word that's spoken, like everything is documented. And of course I didn't.

know what was on this until I read it afterwards. And before I'd started swimming the channel, I had read somewhere that you have to tell your crew every time you had a wee, because that was indicating whether you were dehydrated or not, which is like a really important thing. But I hadn't told my crew that this is what I was going to do. So it's like also it's like the holy grail of swimming, which is learning to wee while swimming. So I was really, really pleased that I had managed to conquer this weeing while swimming.

So every time I had a wee, I was going, wee, and my crew like, and they were all just smiling at me. And then they were like, look at, they were like, looking at each other and they're like, why is she telling us every time she's had a wee? And then they were like, I don't know, but she looks really pleased with herself. So let's just smile at her.

Hear Me Roar (26:02)

So we just smile and wave.

Gill Castle (26:03)

it's like the real epitome of the smile and nod but of course because they smiled like massive smile every time I said it I was like are they really pleased that I'm weeing so I'm gonna keep telling them it's just one of those really good things

Hear Me Roar (26:12)

Ha ha ha!

⁓ I'm

gonna do that with my husband now. Just gonna go wee.

Gill Castle (26:21)

But

not in the pool.

Hear Me Roar (26:24)

No, I

was going to say, where are you going to do that? From the bathroom, I hope. The thing is, if you were on your way to France, you could have just been shouting yes. When you got into French waters, it just turned into yes.

Gill Castle (26:27)

Yeah. ⁓

I don't think I lost you.

you

Hear Me Roar (26:39)

⁓ do it.

Gill Castle (26:39)

So yeah, so that

really made me laugh, like, like reading through the thing and obviously then chatting to my crew and they're like, yeah, like we had no idea what you were talking about.

serious.

Hear Me Roar (26:49)

So when you get

to France, if the tide's in or if the tide's out, you can stand up quicker, can you? I don't understand. Do have to touch a certain part of the marker?

Gill Castle (27:01)

⁓ You could, but

no, because if you think about it, if the tide is out, it's pushing against you, so that's actually harder. You want the tide coming in. And you can land anywhere on that, on a certain section in France. So it's like no way that you would know. And without finally totally up myself, the BBC were wanting to film it and they kept saying to my pilot and everyone, well, what time is she going to land and where is she going to land in France? And they were like...

Hear Me Roar (27:11)

yeah.

Darn it.

Gill Castle (27:29)

No idea. It's like a huge ghost line. I haven't got a clue where she'll land. So, but yeah, you can't go as far as Calais. One girl did, but... And one of the rules about Channel swimming is you have to clear the water. So you can't have any water... You can't be paddling, basically. You have to have totally cleared it and have no water either side of you. Or rocks, like some people that end up on the rocks.

Hear Me Roar (27:49)

.

Gill Castle (27:51)

But yeah, it is a strange experience though, because obviously when you land, there's people, French people, just going about their day, walking their dog. then there's me, bedraggled and exhausted, flopping onto the beach. It must be quite weird for them.

Hear Me Roar (28:00)

Yeah.

Really what you wanted was a fanfare on your arrival?

Gill Castle (28:10)

Exactly, exactly. Some people said, you know, it's great because I landed in the middle of night and had the beach myself in the dark. And I was like, God, no, I'd be terrified. Wouldn't want to land on the beach in the dark. I said, no, so I want to the photos.

Hear Me Roar (28:19)

wow.

Yeah,

so obviously part of your swim would have been in pitch black.

Gill Castle (28:27)

Yeah, so I set off at half past nine at night, which was, well, let's be totally honest. It got me a lot more money in sponsorship. It was not what I wanted to do because it's terrifying. So yeah, I set off at half past nine at night and so I'm up for nine hours throughout the night, but it actually made for an epic video of me leaving in the dark with just two little lights, one on my back and one on my head. One flashes and the other one's...

Hear Me Roar (28:35)

That's good thing.

Hmm.

room.

Gill Castle (28:54)

like on fully so that the boat can tell which is your backside and which is your head. mean, I kind of would hope that they would, you know, I mean, that obviously shows how slowly that you're swimming that they have to judge by the lights flashing which end is which. And, yeah, like where she goes, even know where she is, she doesn't know what she's doing. So, yeah, so yeah, it was, it was bloody boring as well.

Hear Me Roar (28:56)

Alright.

Good to know.

Yeah.

Especially when you're shouting, wee.

Gill Castle (29:19)

through the night. I mean, and I was lied to because I was told the good thing about swimming through the night is that you'll get an amazing sunrise. Like everyone said this to me. So I was like, right, I cannot wait to get this sunrise. And no, I didn't get that. It literally just, you know, it went from dark to like light gray, light gray, And I was like, that was literally it. I was like, that was crap. Yeah.

Hear Me Roar (29:20)

Yeah.

And that was it. That was that. Can I ask? Right. When like

half past nine at night, I'm looking at my watch thinking it's bedtime. Did you have to somehow adjust your body clock and start sleeping during the day? Did you not do any of that?

Gill Castle (29:49)

yeah.

No, no,

no, because you don't know what time you're leaving. didn't know I was leaving at that time until half past six that morning. Yeah, you don't you get you find out 12 hours before. So they check the time times every 12 hours. Yeah, but that's what mind the adrenaline kind of sees you through. Yeah, the adrenaline just, you know, chucks you in. It's

Hear Me Roar (30:00)

⁓ right. ⁓ wow.

So all of a sudden you're doing night shift. Wow.

What was

the, I mean, obviously arriving in France must have been the high point and setting off was probably a high point, but what was the low point for you? Was there any point where you just thought, oh, I can't do this?

Gill Castle (30:24)

Yeah.

No, no, it was the most amazing experience of my life. think because I'd, right, so basically when you swim the channel, you're given a window of opportunity to swim. So your pilot has got seven days to get four people to France and back. And I was number four. To get a long story short, I was blown out of my window by bad weather. So I was told that's it. You might not even get a chance to swim the channel at all after training for three years. There was only four weeks left.

Hear Me Roar (30:40)

Mm-hmm.

Ugh.

Wow.

Gill Castle (30:54)

season. So then my pilot

basically managed to squeeze me in so I was so unbelievably happy and grateful that I was swimming. That alone just gave me such a massive amount of positive energy but also it's really drummed into you throughout your training, your really lonely arduous gruelling training when you can't talk to anybody that your head is the thing that will get you to France or not.

Hear Me Roar (31:08)

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Gill Castle (31:20)

So you can't let any negative thoughts in at all and I knew that. And 10 minutes before you get off the boat, you're given a warning by the pilot and he says to your crew, right, this is when you have to slather with Sudokrem and Vaseline and that's to stop chafing. And when he gave that warning, I literally just went into some sort of like, adrenalized shock. You know, my whole body was shaking and they said, my crew said they could feel the adrenaline pumping underneath my skin.

Hear Me Roar (31:33)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Gill Castle (31:46)

My teeth were shaking, like everything was just literally like that. And then as soon as he said, right, get in, it just disappeared. And it was literally like a drug. I was just like, I feel amazing. And I was like, right, let's swim to France. I wasn't scared at all. I just knew I was going to swim to France. And the whole way through, I was just like, yeah, I'm going to get there. And it sounds really strange. Apart from being incredibly relieved when I landed in France, I wasn't surprised. That's like all I knew, was going to swim to France. But that was only like for that.

Hear Me Roar (31:46)

Wow.

Wow.

Gill Castle (32:13)

13, 14 hours. It was amazing. Just an amazing experience.

Hear Me Roar (32:16)

But that

positive mental attitude can take you a long way, can't it?

Gill Castle (32:21)

Yeah, yeah, and I knew it. I knew if I let any negative thoughts in, like you've only got your brain there. And it was too important. And also I had a hell of a lot of pressure. The world was following me. So yeah.

Hear Me Roar (32:26)

and

Yeah.

And how do you,

how did you train for it?

Gill Castle (32:39)

So

when I decided, again, this was a very spontaneous decision to swim the English Channel without any forethought or consideration or knowledge of the rules. I couldn't actually lift my left arm at that point because I had a really severe rotator cuff injury. So the rotator cuff is your shoulder and I couldn't even change gear properly with my left arm. So first I had to start off with eight months of physio.

twice a day for half an hour. I hadn't swum more than two miles in my whole entire life and that was in a pool. I hadn't swum out of, you know, hadn't swum at night, I hadn't swum next to a boat, I hadn't swum on my own in the sea, I hadn't swum for more than a mile in the sea and then I was off to swim 21 miles. So I had all my physio and then I had to end up swimming, I don't even know what it was now, four or five times a week, up to 25.

thousand kilometres every single week plus being at the gym and doing palates and eating properly and making sure I was sleeping properly. Joyfully I couldn't carry heavy shopping again like I couldn't after my stomach surgery. I became very much like a princess. Can't carry heavy things. Very careful. Well one thing I didn't do actually was do ice skating at Christmas which is not to say I'm like bloody

whatever her name is from Bolero. Yeah, Torval and Dean. I wasn't like that anyway, but I wouldn't do that at Christmas in case I fell over and hurt myself. So anyway, after I did the channel swim, I was actually then able to go ice skating, like with my son at Christmas time. I now fell over and gave myself concussion. And I was like, well, there you go. I haven't really missed out.

Hear Me Roar (34:07)

no. ⁓

Gill Castle (34:09)

I was just like, well, there you go. You know, I've waited like four years to do this. I was really excited and that, and I had one of the little penguin things and I let go of it and then I fell backwards and gave myself concussion So yeah, I think it's safer for me to swim the channel.

Hear Me Roar (34:23)

I have to say,

really admire you because I did a challenge last year from Macmillan and it was a swim the channel challenge. you so you had to do 21 miles, but you could do it over the space of I think it was like two months or something. I did it in about over the space of three weeks. And I think the furthest that I swam was two miles in one go with

Gill Castle (34:32)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hear Me Roar (34:50)

with wee breaks, I didn't get to shout wee and just go in the pool. Yeah, because it has thrown you out. People tend to get a bit annoyed with you when you just shout wee in the pool.

Gill Castle (34:50)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mind, I think they'd be even more alarmed if I was shouting poo, because obviously I can poo while I'm my bag while I'm swimming. So I think they'd be even more alarmed if I did that.

Hear Me Roar (35:05)

Hahaha! ⁓

But I found, I

found just doing it over the space of a few weeks was really hard. How on earth you get through it in a day is...

Gill Castle (35:18)

Do you know what

it is? It's motivation. you don't have a reason to do it, you won't do it. So I used to find more than half an hour, 45 minutes swimming in the pool before I decided to do this. Just boring. I there's no way I could do that. But I knew I couldn't afford to get bored because you can't get bored because I was like, this is something I've got to do. So my mind just switched.

Hear Me Roar (35:23)

Mm.

No, no.

and I'm.

Gill Castle (35:44)

But now, if I get back in the pool now, I'm like, ugh. God, this is so boring. Because I'm not motivated. I don't have the go.

Hear Me Roar (35:47)

Yeah. Well,

I've got my swimming headphones and I listen to Harry Potter.

Gill Castle (35:54)

See

that's cheating.

Hear Me Roar (35:55)

My daughter comes with

me and I ignore her for the whole time because I'm listening to Harry Potter. If I was doing that I'd be...

Gill Castle (36:01)

how lovely. But yeah, and you know what?

Hear Me Roar (36:04)

go on.

Gill Castle (36:04)

As long as you're enjoying it, it doesn't matter. I'm saying as long as you're enjoying it, it really doesn't matter.

Like, I just think people should exercise whichever way makes them happy, you know? Who cares?

Hear Me Roar (36:12)

Yeah.

I would have drowned without a shadow of a doubt.

What's next You've done your book. Hopefully that'll get publisher. Have you got anything else on the horizon

Gill Castle (36:25)

we want to build the new hospital wing, obviously. So that's the next thing. And we've got a filmmaker who's coming to Kili. So we're going to have that release. I mean, like for a 20 minute film festival film. So there'll be that exciting thing to look forward to. Just sort of, I don't know, actually. I think, do you know what I need to do? I need to get bored and then I'll have a great idea. So. ⁓

Hear Me Roar (36:27)

Yeah.

then you'll think of something.

Are you actually going to go out there and lay some of the bricks so you can be really part of it? Yeah.

Gill Castle (36:51)

Yeah, that would be great. Well,

I think they might let me one because we don't want it to fall down. Yeah. Yeah. And we definitely don't want to give me the key because I'll lose it. But yeah, yeah. I mean, it makes me laugh because people always say, you know, what does your husband think about all these things? And I'm like, he just accepts it. Like, just because, yeah, do what you want. He's certainly not going to say no.

Hear Me Roar (36:55)

Yeah, obviously. We don't want it falling down.

No

I would imagine he's immensely proud.

Gill Castle (37:18)

Yeah, well

he is but he's just he's just a nice he's just a quiet guy he just likes a quiet life Quiet life is let me do what I want Yeah Yeah Yeah

Hear Me Roar (37:24)

Mm-hmm.

I think that's probably a lot of men just like a quiet life. My husband likes a quiet

life. He doesn't get one does he? Neither does mine. we're gonna move on now and we asked you to come up with a cocktail or a mocktail that represents you.

Gill Castle (37:51)

you

Hear Me Roar (37:53)

Tell us Gill, what did you come up with?

Gill Castle (37:53)

Thank

Well, I've put a lot of thought into this over a long period of time and I've called it Sunrise Over the English Channel and it will have pineapple in because they're prickly like my legs and probably my chin, let's face it. Lemonade because it's bubbly like me and raspberry because it has rosy cheeks like I have, especially when you've swum to France.

Hear Me Roar (38:04)

Excellent.

you

Like you.

Mmm. Yes. You missed

a key ingredient there. It's the apple juice for the wee.

Gill Castle (38:25)

did I?

I was like, what is that? thought I wrote it down.

Hear Me Roar (38:28)

You

Well, Gill, it's been absolutely fab. has been great talking Listening to your stories and you are truly an inspiration, which is what our podcast is all about, isn't it? You are one of the most inspirational women we've ever met. Yeah, It's fantastic. And thank you for for agreeing to come and talk to us. It's been brilliant. So interesting. We have got everything crossed.

Gill Castle (38:40)

⁓ thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.

My pleasure.

Hear Me Roar (38:58)

fingers and toes for your book. I am sure somebody will snap it up. They have to. if they do, we'd like a signed copy. ⁓

Gill Castle (39:01)

Okay.

Thank you. We'll see. Thank you very much. Thank you very

much ladies and gentlemen. I've thoroughly enjoyed myself, so thank you.

Hear Me Roar (39:17)

Thank

you. Thanks a lot Gill. Bye. Bye.

Gill Castle (39:21)

Bye!