S2 Episode 6 - No Such Thing as a Glass Ceiling with Maralyn O'Keefe

In this engaging conversation, Maralyn shares her inspiring journey from a childhood in Paris and London to becoming a renowned stained glass artist. She discusses the pivotal moments in her life, including motherhood, health challenges, and the rediscovery of her artistic passion. Maralyn reflects on her experiences in the art world, the impact of her work, and the importance of legacy as she prepares to pass her knowledge to the next generation. The conversation concludes with a lighthearted discussion about a cocktail inspired by her creative spirit.

Maralyn is one of the UK's foremost stained glass artists, with work in countries all over the world. After 30 years as an artist, she recently retired to enjoy life.

Born in the 50’s, Maralyn’s youth was spent in Paris & London where she fell in love with the shop windows and architecture. However, she was told by her art teacher that she would never amount to anything!

After travelling the world, aged 40 and suffering from a debilitating illness, Maralyn enrolled on an art degree from Sunderland University specialising in glass and ceramics where she found her calling. Her work has included public & private commissions ranging from personal windows to an entire cathedral.

For commissions, contact artcetera@live.co.uk

Takeaways

Maralyn's childhood in Paris influenced her artistic journey.

Motherhood sparked Maralyn's return to creativity.

An art teacher's discouragement fuelled Maralyn's determination.

Health challenges led Maralyn to pursue her art education later in life.

Maralyn's work in stained glass has brought her joy and fulfilment.

Art can play a significant role in healing and recovery.

Maralyn's family has been a strong support system throughout her career.

The importance of legacy in passing on knowledge to future generations.

Maralyn's experiences have opened many doors in her life.

Creativity can be spontaneous and deeply personal.

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Transcript

Hear Me Roar (00:32)

Hello! Hi, we were just sitting chatting before we started recording anything today because I went to my first WI meeting and Marie's just giving me a push back into the middle because otherwise I fade out with the mic. We're going to be talking to Maralyn O'Keefe today and she makes stained glass, but...

I also know that Maralyn's thinking about joining the WI. Yeah, she is, yeah. And I went to my first WI meeting recently. Yes, you popped your WI cherry. Well, yeah, yeah. I had to sing Jerusalem and being Scottish, we didn't do much singing of England's green and pleasant lands. So I didn't know the words, but fortunately they gave me a cheat sheet. And it was really good. It's like...

a ready-made friendship group actually. But so I signed up to go on a walk with them and I'd been on a walk with my daughter that morning, I'd done four miles already and I thought oh gosh yeah I've got this other walk like later on. I thought oh it's they'll probably only be going a couple of miles or something like that. It'll be fine, it'll all be fine. I'm sure the old legs will make it. Four miles!

another four miles so I'd walked eight miles that day and then I texted my sister later on that night and I said to her they've broken me. I think I think I need a hip replacement. Oh my god you're so dramatic. It was really good it was really good.

The thing about the WI is that there's no sort of age limit. there is, there's a lot of older people. There are people right up to the nineties. There are people like me in the fifties. There's not a limit to it. You just have to be an adult woman. Yeah. There isn't an age limit at all is there? And people were so nice as well. They got me to wear this little knitted flower so everyone would know that I was new.

And then all these people just- Was that in case you got lost on the walk? No, no, this was to the meeting. this was to the meeting. they made, they got me to wear this little flower and all these people just came up and talked to me, which was really nice. That's lovely. Cause quite often if you go into somewhere new, some kind of new group, A, you're nervous about going in because of all these people there and you don't know anybody. And then quite often you get ignored. So it's good that they've obviously been-

encouraged to approach new members and having something that marks you out like a flower. Is that a bit like when you go on a blind date and you meet under the clock tower and he carries a copy of the Sunday Times and you carry a rose? I did not get a single snog. That was just very disappointing. Came out of there devastated. I would be devastated as well. we did have a good sing, a chat and a scone. What more could you ask for?

Anyway, this week we're going to be talking to Maralyn O'Keefe and the episode is called No Such Thing as a Glass Ceiling. And that's because Maralyn is one of the UK's foremost stained glass artists and she's worked in countries all over the world. And after 30 years as an artist, she's now retired to enjoy life, she says. She was born in the 50s. And her youth was spent in Paris and London.

where she fell in love with the shop windows and the architecture. However, she was told by her art teacher she would never amount to anything. After traveling the world, aged 40 and suffering from a debilitating illness, Maralyn enrolled on an art degree from Sunderland University, specializing in glass and ceramics, where she found her ceiling, her calling.

Her work has included public and private commissions ranging from personal windows to an entire cathedral. So I can't wait to hear from Maralyn. me too. Let's go and meet her.

Hear Me Roar (04:31)

Hi Maralyn it's lovely to see you.

Maralyn (04:35)

Hello

everyone, hello there, hi.

Hear Me Roar (04:39)

So

Maralyn, you're one of our top inspirations because you changed course midlife and went on to create something absolutely wonderful. But let us start by taking you back to your youth, which was spent in Paris and London. Why Paris?

Maralyn (04:46)

Yes.

Yes. ⁓

My father was, his job took him over to just outside Paris and as a family we went with him and initially we lived in Versailles, literally down from the palace and our playground was the Château de Versailles, it was the gardens. And then after a year we moved to a place called Maison Lafitte which is on the

Hear Me Roar (05:12)

Wow

Maralyn (05:22)

Blois de Boulogne on the outskirts of Paris. And I spent two more years there. So three years nearly I spent over there. ⁓ I was sort of 12 and I came back when I was 15, although my father didn't. We came back so that I could then get my education going again, you know, into English because I've been to a French school for three years. So...

Hear Me Roar (05:25)

Mm-hmm.

How old were you at this point?

So,

are you fluent in French then?

Maralyn (05:49)

More then than I am now because I don't speak it quite as much. But yes, and which was why, although I loved art and I wanted to go down the art route, you know, when even when I was talking to my parents, but they said art was a waste of time. Yeah, waste of time because I spoke French and I should, you know, and that was when people didn't speak, multiple languages then.

Hear Me Roar (06:05)

Thank you.

Yeah.

Maralyn (06:12)

And when I came back to London, I went to the school there, the art teacher confirmed my parents were right that I should go into business in some way because she said to my parents and I can hear it as clear as day, Maralyn will never aspire to anything in art. and that set my my destiny for the time being. And so I went to work for Barclays International in Pall Mall in London, which was the most soul destroying

Hear Me Roar (06:27)

⁓ my goodness.

you

Maralyn (06:40)

job

you could ever have. But, you know, I was in France, in Versailles, in Paris, I saw the beautiful architecture and the shop windows and I actually didn't think about stained glass, not at all, even though there was plenty there with Notre Dame and whatever. But it was the displays, window displays, and I actually wanted to be a window display artist.

And then coming to London, of course, you know, all the big shops and Regent Street and Oxford Street. I really, really wanted to do that sort of thing. But maybe I was not rebellious enough to say to my parents, no, I don't want to go into international business. I want to do art, but I wasn't. I listened to my parents and it was knocked on the head for quite a few years.

It was having a baby that changed it, believe it or not.

Hear Me Roar (07:26)

Ah, right.

what sparked the change then around having the baby?

Maralyn (07:31)

Well, I married somebody in the Air Force and we got married very quickly because he'd been posted to Cyprus And then the next thing, he got posted to Belgium and we thought, well, hang on, this is an ideal time perhaps to start a family

and that's when I became pregnant with my first son. Anyway, somebody gave me a sewing machine. And well, there I was in Belgium, new baby, clothes didn't fit. So I taught myself from a basic pattern that I was given to adapt patterns to design and went and got material, made myself some dresses.

Hear Me Roar (07:55)

you

Wow

Maralyn (08:05)

was taught how to set sleeves in in a telephone box to England to my mum. That was when he had to book ⁓ a call. And there I am with my hunched up shoulders because I hadn't set the sleeves in my dresses properly. And then I started designing toys and it's the design elements of it that I really enjoyed. It wasn't following patterns. I designed things and I was designing toys made out of

Hear Me Roar (08:12)

didn't... god.

Maralyn (08:31)

old clothes and all sorts and I had almost like a little business, know, supplying people, oh I like that, I'll make you one if you want, what colours do you want? And, you know, and they kept me occupied while this baby slept. And that's how it got me back into the swing of doing something arty, but, yeah.

Hear Me Roar (08:46)

Well, that's amazing and so creative.

And do you still make your own clothes?

Maralyn (08:51)

No, I don't even

like mending clothes. I have a lovely sewing machine, which I've had donkey's years, and a Bernina, which is a really nice sewing machine. But I've got a dress upstairs, which is too long, and it's been upstairs for about two years too long. I love textiles. I've got a lot of

Hear Me Roar (09:16)

Yeah.

Maralyn (09:17)

work in my house done by textile artists. But no, it's, it was then and now I'm here, so things changed.

Hear Me Roar (09:25)

But it brought your creative streak back.

Maralyn (09:29)

Absolutely.

Also, when macrame in the 80s, late ⁓ 70s, early 80s became popular and people were making pots, it explains perhaps why I like doing big windows because I wanted to make big things with macrame.

I just liked working big and I used to have a hook in the doorway of our dining room that I used to work from, so maybe that was the precursor to me going into making windows, so.

Hear Me Roar (09:45)

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah,

which you do with great aplomb as well. You've done some pretty spectacular windows in your time, haven't you?

Maralyn (10:03)

I've been very fortunate to have Bridget who's been 28 years and she has been part, she's been my assistant for 28 years. And so I like the word our as opposed to me. So although they're my designs mainly,

It's an our thing, you know, it's a team. And in St Cuthbert's in Seaham, there's a church there, the church site called St Cuthbert's has absolutely, I should think nearly a hundred panels of ours, in their window panels. The whole, all the stained glass in that church is mine, if you want to say using the me word. And they gave me carte blanche, it's a 1950s church, had toilet glass window.

And so I brought in the theme of the 50s throughout my work into it. And it was a wonderful commission to work on. then I've done, you know, from smaller things, it doesn't matter what size, if it's of interest, you know, and generally can make anything interesting through to cathedrals. And the one that was an amazing experience was in Nigeria, in Lagos.

Hear Me Roar (10:47)

That's nice.

Thank

Maralyn (11:08)

And for over a period of five years, I worked on the cathedral over there, mainly working from England, but every year I would go there for about three, four weeks at a time. And we made new windows, we restored the original windows, which originally came from Britain when Nigeria was part of the empire. And that was an experience and a half. You wouldn't want to go for a holiday necessarily because it's a bit, you know, well.

I had to be sort of looked after all the time, guarded almost, because, but the people I met, the whole experience was wonderful. So it's not just doing the windows, it's the experience of working with the people who you're making them for. And that was one of those opportunities that I take with the one that I did for Boots. Never ever thought.

Hear Me Roar (11:45)

Yeah. Yeah.

Maralyn (11:54)

Well, they contacted me would I do something for a photo backdrop. I said, yes, that would be lovely. Wonderful. What's it for? Incontinence pads.

Hear Me Roar (12:01)

well, you're on the right podcast for that.

Maralyn (12:03)

Well, they sent me these samples

of male and female pads and contraptions and blankets and whatever and I thought what the heck. And I did whatever they wanted, and ⁓ off it went. So, no comparison, you know, beautiful cathedral and intercontinence pads.

Hear Me Roar (12:22)

So

that's an actual window in a boot store?

Maralyn (12:27)

No, no, it was a photo backdrop.

It was, know, they were obviously doing something to market and they wanted stained glass. So, I mean, what I did was based on quilting, to tell you the truth, because I worked on, they sent me these covers, to go on the bed, which were quilted. So I did quilting and it was done more in etching than anything, you know, it's and there's a glass, not stained glass, a ⁓ blown artist, know, a furnace artist in glass who helped make some of the shapes

Hear Me Roar (12:29)

⁓ right.

Maralyn (12:54)

for instance, like the male incontinence pad won't go over there. And so, yeah, so no, it's not a stained glass window. It's just a backdrop for them to then prop things against, you know. So yeah, I'm from the sublime to the ridiculous basically. Yeah. ⁓

Hear Me Roar (12:57)

you

No.

⁓ So let's.

Yeah, that is quite ridiculous, isn't it? Let's

just take you back because when you were at school, you had an art teacher who said basically there's no way you would amount to anything in art. But that was clearly a love of yours. So did that, did her opinion of you and your ability, did that spur you on to go, right, I'm going to prove you wrong?

Maralyn (13:14)

Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓

Well, yes, in a way. I mean, all through my schooling, going back from when you first start school, I wasn't the, I'm not going to say I the thickest of pupils, I wasn't. But if I didn't understand something too well, what I did understand, I would doodle and draw.

And it made me look as though I understood things. If we were talking about the Romans, I would hand him my little essay about Romans and then there'd be a Roman soldier on mine. So I actually got better marks in school because I illustrated and I thought I understood more than I did. So when this teacher said that and all through those years, I was told by teachers, my parents were told by teachers, Maralyn's got this drawing ability, her imagination

Hear Me Roar (13:47)

and

Yeah

Maralyn (14:16)

 runs wild. And then when I did get my O level art, I got an A in O level art and I thought if I was that bad, why did I get an A? So I actually, even though, well, I'd had my two boys, had Darren and Tim, and I went and did my A level art at college while they were at school.

Hear Me Roar (14:23)

Yeah.

Maralyn (14:35)

And I got a top mark in that and I thought, well, am I that bad? So that's why I went on to do my degree. D'you know, she'll be long since gone now, but I'd love to meet her up there and say, you got it wrong, Mrs. Yeah, the first sort of 20, 30 years of my life, you've got it wrong. Yeah.

Hear Me Roar (14:46)

You got it wrong. Yeah, wrong big time.

Definitely. So you

had, so you went to uni when you were ⁓ in your 40s and, but just before that you'd suffered a debilitating illness.

Maralyn (14:58)

Yeah, I mean, yeah.

I did, it's an illness called sarcoidosis, which really may never go away. I still get checked for it annually and things like this. It's an illness which manifests itself a lot like TB, but it doesn't have the... It's not infectious, whereas TB is. It affects your autoimmune system. It affects your skin, your eyes, primarily your lungs.

Hear Me Roar (15:21)

Right.

Maralyn (15:29)

liver, kidney, everything, all your major organs. And they basically are fighting against each other. I'd had it, first time I had it, or I would say had it, I think it might have affected me when I was younger, not 100 % sure, very much younger. But the next time when it was diagnosed correctly was in my 30s. I thought I was getting old because I couldn't get up the stairs in one go, I used have to sit because I couldn't breathe properly.

And that's when it was diagnosed properly. And then it was, say in my early 40s, I started feeling achy. My skin was itching all over. There was all sorts. My breathing again. I couldn't get up the stairs in one go. And I more or less diagnosed it myself because the doctor couldn't see what was the matter with me. Yes, it's debilitating because you hurt all over.

There's a secondary illness that comes with it called erythema nodosum, which goes on to all the joints, all the non-fleshy parts, and they're just inflamed areas on there, and they hurt like mad. And the answer to help things along because there is no cure for it is steroids. And so I was on big steroids for a long, long time. I'm talking a few years, well, a couple of years, and then anti-inflammatory tablets.

I can't take anti-inflammatories because it's wrecked me and you know what mean. but I'm fit as a fiddle. I got very fat because of the steroids. Yeah, whether it was the reason, my thyroid started misbehaving so I had to have that removed. I'm 73 and I'm fit as a fiddle. Life could be worse.

Hear Me Roar (16:55)

I really, yeah.

I know, I mean, what amazes me about you is the fact that you suffered from this. You had your two children and you were still you were going to get your education, your art education restarted. Then you went to university. That's a heck of a lot going on there.

Maralyn (17:11)

Yeah.

Yes.

Well, the illness really, it was the last year of my degree, the fourth year when I was thinking, I'm taking on too much, I'm doing too much. I got my degree from Sunderland, which was renowned for being the best in Europe for glass studies, which was wonderful. I'll tell you in a bit how I got into glass actually, because that's a different thing again. Yeah, all right.

Hear Me Roar (17:45)

Yes, we're going to ask you that. So we want to know

that.

Maralyn (17:48)

Yeah, but

what it was, I thought because I was feeling tired and achy, I thought I was taking on too much with two children with, you know, traveling, working. I did. And so it's the last year that it really got to me. And I was told I could defer that last year for a year. But when you've been with other students, even though they were half my age, you've got to know them. I didn't want to defer it for students I didn't really know. I wanted to complete. And I have to say, my husband

Ron, he helped me set up my degree show. It was wonderful. The National Trust bought my degree show basically. It was based on the Giant's Causeway.

Hear Me Roar (18:19)

Wow, that's amazing. that's fantastic.

So that must have been displayed somewhere then.

Maralyn (18:30)

It went to the Giants Causeway and it was on display for a year. You know, the whole thing, I designed a chess set based on the Giants Causeway. Do you know the Giants Causeway at all? That's right. When I first saw it a few years earlier, it looked like a giant chess board to me, you know, all the different heights and the way, you know, the hexagonal shapes, because they're pretty uniform.

Hear Me Roar (18:32)

Yeah. ⁓

I haven't been. We know what it is.

Yes. Yeah. Yes.

Maralyn (18:56)

And that's when I did my whole degree show on the Giants Causeway. But because I was incorporating kiln glass, which is three dimensional, into my stained glass, I actually worked with the Royal Society for the Blind and invited them. I would go to their meetings and then invited them to my degree show because they could touch my work. I touch. I see I called it that area because.

They couldn't see it, by touching they could see it. So yes, that was my start and having the National Trust buy my complete degree show, they asked me to do extra pieces for them and suddenly I was in business and I didn't expect it.

Hear Me Roar (19:23)

Yeah.

But I know

your family have been incredibly supportive of your stained glass business.

Maralyn (19:43)

Oh,

absolutely. Oh, they have, Ron especially, and then, as I say, we're getting older, Ron, during COVID, he never did get COVID, but he did, you know, he was getting older and he's got his own illnesses, unfortunately. So Tim came in and has put us on, into the 21st century because we were very much working.

as if it was 1990.

Hear Me Roar (20:08)

Yeah, but

being artistic and creative, it's quite difficult to then move that into a business and have a business mind.

Maralyn (20:18)

I don't know what money I've got in the bank or if I have got any in the bank, I don't do anything like that because it's very hard to put a price on something ⁓ that's made from the heart. You must feel that sometimes, you know.

Hear Me Roar (20:25)

No.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I would,

I would give my work away if it wasn't for my husband saying, no, you can't do that. ha

Maralyn (20:38)

I did exactly that. That's

what I did. And one of the postings that we had was down in Devon and I took up ceramics. So my degree was actually in glass and ceramics, but I specialized in glass. I made loads of these ceramics. People say, I love my mug. You couldn't make me a coffee set. Yes, I make you a coffee set. I never charged a penny for them. And Ron used to say,

this clay, how much clay have you got? You're not making very much. I went, ⁓ I am really not renting a kiln. So yeah, and I used to give away my glass as well. But I thought, the time is to sell. And the first piece, I remember thinking, I don't want it to go. I don't want it to go, you know. But when they're commissions, when I, and then it's nearly always commissions, they're not for me. They're for the people, ⁓ it's a different thing. But it was something I've made. It's very hard to let it go.

Hear Me Roar (21:17)

Yeah.

Maralyn (21:26)

So,

Hear Me Roar (21:27)

it's part of you, isn't it? Because you've put yourself into it. No, it's your heart as well. So what was it about? Yes. Yes. Yeah, because it's come from you, you know. So what?

Maralyn (21:29)

It is. It's not just the brain, it's the heart. Yeah, exactly. It's not unusual. All artists think this. Yeah, all artists think this as well.

Yeah. ⁓

Hear Me Roar (21:44)

What drew you, because obviously you were very good at drawing and textiles, so what drew you to stained glass and ceramics rather than going down the say, I don't know, book illustration avenue or the textiles and yeah.

Maralyn (21:55)

Yeah.

Well, there you are. Another posting Ron had was to Denmark, northern Denmark. And I had, well, we had to put our boys into boarding school because there was no school nearby and I suddenly found I had a lot of time on my hand.

And nearby, about 20 miles from where we lived, there was a glass studio called Holmegaard which is the Danish National Glass People. And I was invited to go and see them and, ⁓ to, you know, well go to this glass place. that'll be nice. And I went in and I went, gosh, this is gorgeous. I love the work. And so anyway,

Hear Me Roar (22:21)

Right.

Maralyn (22:33)

When Ron was at work, I went back myself, then I kept going back, then I kept going back and they said, do you want to come on the plant floor? Come and have a look. I went, that'd be lovely. So I went on the plant floor and they said, do you want to have a go? And this is blown glass, you know. And went, I'd love to have a go. And basically the next two years, I spent one to two days a week there on the plant floor, even knocking with a sledgehammer.

Hear Me Roar (22:45)

Yeah

Maralyn (22:56)

a furnace apart because it had to be rebuilt because they have to be rebuilt every couple of years. And all this, you know, I was really absolutely loving every bit of it. Never in a million years ever thought I would ever get into glass. And Ron is from up here, from Rowlands Gill and we came to live up here after years of travelling because he was due out of the Air Force. And anyway,

an advert came on TV for Sunderland University and their glass course. And I said, I'd love to go on that. in the end I did, I went on, on the course. And there's only so much you can do with blown glass. You've got a furnace and how many, yeah, we've all got furnaces, haven't we? not many people do. And then,

Hear Me Roar (23:34)

all got one in our back garden.

Maralyn (23:39)

On the foundation course, when I was going through the different, from sculpting, printmaking and everything, one of my tutors on printmaking was ill, couldn't come that day. So I wandered off and I walked into the glass department, walked past the stained glass department and I never walked out again. Basically, I changed my degree to architectural glass and 3D design. And that's it. I didn't go back in to do

the blown glass, I was there, yeah, it was mainly stained glass with kiln glass, which is a flatter version, you know what I mean? It's not big vessels and things. And that's it. I couldn't get over, I had one of the best tutors going, Mike Davies, who's done work in Durham Cathedral as well. And he said to me, my first piece, if you can do that, it was meant to be Cathy.

Hear Me Roar (24:13)

Yeah.

Maralyn (24:29)

crying for Heathcliff so the tears were down the gown. If you can do the head on that, which was only about that big, the size of there, if you can do the head in lead, you can be a stained glass artist. And I did the head, no problem. And here I am. I did, yeah. So really going to Denmark with Ron changed my life. ⁓Putting the boys in boarding school, my God, that was horrific.

Hear Me Roar (24:31)

yes.

Yeah. You obviously found your calling and that was that. Yeah.

Mm. Yeah.

They loved it and you were devastated.

Maralyn (24:56)

And I suffered more than they did. They absolutely had a ball, it turned out. Yeah. They went

visiting until the teachers eventually had retired or gone. The school way into their adulthood and they will tell you it was brilliant time, you know, together. They were together. That was the main thing. was, know. But yeah, but that changed me.

Hear Me Roar (25:15)

Yeah, that's lovely.

Can I ask, Sunderland's got, is it the National Glass Centre in Sunderland? ⁓ And that's that's a pretty big deal. So do you have some pieces in there?

Maralyn (25:22)

Yes. Yeah.

No, it's going to close at the end of this year because it's got structural problems. It opened the year after I graduated and went into business. 1999, think they would have opened. 98, 99, something like that. And they have got structural problems with a glass roof. But what did happen in, I think it was 2003, was nominated the

Hear Me Roar (25:32)

no!

Maralyn (25:54)

best cultural and creative business in the northeast of England. And I became their guest artist for three months, so I had my work in there. But whoever designed the building, considering how much stained glass there is in the world, they didn't arrange for anything. that could be hung in the glass, which was one side of the building.

Hear Me Roar (25:58)

out.

Maralyn (26:14)

So my glass was hung either in a cabinet or against a wall, a wooden wall, because it was so badly designed to begin with, you know what I mean? The facility really, in my mind, needs light, exactly. But they didn't have anywhere to hang, you know.

Hear Me Roar (26:14)

straight.

I don't know.

Yeah, because glass needs light to go through it. So

30 years on, you're still, you're in your 70s now and you're retiring.

Maralyn (26:36)

Yes, I know.

Yeah,

I am. I mean, I've been getting my pension for 13 years now, I must retire. I must retire. But I need to spend time with Ron. we've got, well, we're into the autumn of our, autumn years of our lives. And you've got to consider, that there's a life other than work. Although my work has been, for the last 30 years has been the most wonderful work I could ever imagine.

Hear Me Roar (26:52)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Are you still making commissions then for your beautiful glass creation?

Maralyn (27:07)

You know, right.

Well,

yes, but I'm passing them through now to my assistant Bridgette, so she can and she's more or less the same age that I was when I started. ⁓ And she has got all these years ahead of her as well. I have to say that I've I've had the most wonderful I mean, I've been told I should write a book about even the last 30 years or even my life, the way it's changed over the years.

Hear Me Roar (27:21)

Wow.

Hmm

Maralyn (27:35)

⁓ So, Yvonne, I need some help. I got to meet Mo Mowlam I was commissioned to do a piece to commemorate the peace talks in Northern Ireland. And my work went to Omagh after the bombing in memory of the people who died, the 29 people who died in that bombing. Ron and I were invited to Omagh for three days and they hosted us. I mean, that was quite harrowing actually.

Hear Me Roar (27:49)

Wow.

Yes.

Maralyn (28:01)

But art

played a big part in helping people recover. It was heartbreaking seeing some of the drawings done by the children soon after the event because it brought out the horror that they had experienced. We went to the Royal Garden Party in Buckingham Palace. We went and ate with Hilary Armstrong, Baroness Hilary Armstrong.

Hear Me Roar (28:05)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Maralyn (28:24)

in the Churchill Room in the House of Parliament and were given a private viewing of Parliament. We also had an exhibition, a small exhibition of my work in Washington, and we were taken because the lady who'd organised it, her husband was FBI, and we had a viewing of the White House at seven o'clock in the morning.

Hear Me Roar (28:46)

Wow.

Maralyn (28:47)

But

Bill Clinton was a few yards away getting into a helicopter on the lawn. It's opened so many doors. It's done some wonderful things, opportunities and memories that I can't explain. It's just been a fabulous life. So I could a little bit forgive that art teacher, but...

Hear Me Roar (28:56)

Yeah.

Yes.

No. ⁓

Maralyn (29:12)

Not totally, because maybe

through maturity and an illness that I couldn't go back to do my previous job, which was actually as a translator, because I speak Danish and French. It did me the, you know, she did me a favour because at least I had the maturity to go into my art. Whereas when you leave university as a young person,

you haven't got all that other knowledge of life. So changing, midlife, has its benefits.

Hear Me Roar (29:35)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

kind of a very wise note to leave things on, isn't it really? This episode is called No Such Thing As A Glass Ceiling and you've certainly proved that.

Maralyn (29:45)

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. I always

give talks and I say to people, my end bit is always that one time I wanted to do the window displays. Now I just make the windows. I haven't come very far in my life.

Hear Me Roar (30:03)

No, that's true.

So Maralyn, that leaves us with our final question, which is about our cocktail. Your cocktail, not our cocktail, your cocktail. So we had a chat about this and you wanted to call it... Was it Spontaneity? Yes.

Maralyn (30:16)

You

Yes.

spontaneous because I'm very

spontaneous. I'm very, if I want to do something, I mean Ron dreads me. I'm gonna put the sofa there and I can't sit there, I have to move the sofa. You know, I do things, if I want to do something I have to do it now. So yes.

Hear Me Roar (30:38)

Okay, so it's called spontaneous and what are your ingredients and why?

Maralyn (30:41)

But it's got to Right.

Well, red, green and blue, because they are the main colors that are used in glass that people think of. But grenadine, and I can't remember the other two. What have I... That's it, yes. That's it, yes. Whether the density will make them sit on top of each other, I don't know.

Hear Me Roar (30:56)

Blue curacao and Midori, which is the green one.

Maralyn (31:06)

when you're pouring it. Yeah.

Hear Me Roar (31:06)

I think they will. I think

they will. I've seen that cocktail where it sits in three stripes. Well, we're gonna make these cocktails, so we'll soon find out, won't we? And do know what? If it doesn't, what we'll do is we'll add a bit of fizz because you're also a really warm, bubbly person.

Maralyn (31:11)

That's what I think.

⁓

Yeah, Prosecco has got to add to it as well, I think. Thank you. Yeah, add Prosecco. ⁓ but no, it's been lovely chatting. ⁓

Hear Me Roar (31:25)

Yeah. I just write that down then, we're Prosecco. Okay. Well, thank you so much.

It's been absolutely wonderful to hear from you, Maralyn. Yeah, thanks Maralyn, because obviously this is the first time I've met you. I know Yvonne... I've met you. It was lovely to meet you. I know.

Maralyn (31:42)

Yes, you've met me many times, So, but no, thank

you. It's been lovely chatting, you know.

Hear Me Roar (31:50)

Thank you very much. Thank you for joining us. All right. Thanks a lot, Maralyn. Bye. Bye.

Maralyn (31:52)

Yeah, it's nice. Thank you.

Bye. Bye.

Hear Me Roar (31:57)

If you would like to commission Maralyn or the lady she works with, Bridget, for an artwork, her email address is artcetera, that's A-R-T-C-E-T-E-R-A @ live.co.uk.