Series 3 Episode 1 - Bouncing Back with Jenny Hodgson

Trigger warning: This episode mentions childhood sexual abuse. There are no graphic descriptions. The focus is on healing.

Summary: In this episode, Jenny Hodgson shares her inspiring journey from childhood trauma to healing and self-acceptance. She discusses the impact of her past experiences on her mental health, the recognition of PTSD, and the therapeutic techniques that helped her reclaim her life. Jenny emphasises the importance of support systems, mindfulness practices, and finding joy in hobbies as essential components of her recovery. Her story is a testament to resilience and the power of hope in overcoming adversity.

Bio: After what felt like a lightbulb moment in her teens, Jenny Hodgson changed from being a laidback kid into a highly driven, slightly obsessive perfectionist. A published writer at 21, winner of scholarships and an Ivy League graduate, she became a Fast Streamer and senior civil servant before moving into the private sector. She even featured in a national newspaper for her achievements. 

Then she hit her 40s, her past caught up with her and her life as she knew it changed forever. Now she’s getting back to being that laidback kid and living a new type of life that she never imagined was possible.

Takeaways:

Jenny transformed from a laid-back teen to a perfectionist after a pivotal moment in her life.

Childhood trauma led to years of struggle with self-worth and PTSD symptoms.

The Me Too movement triggered Jenny's memories of past abuse, leading her to seek help.

Nightmares were a constant for Jenny, stemming from her childhood trauma.

Therapy helped Jenny understand the connection between her trauma and mental health issues.

EMDR therapy was a turning point in Jenny's healing journey.

Mindfulness practices, like meditation and knitting, became essential tools for Jenny.

Jenny found joy in life again through hobbies and community activities.

Support from family and friends played a crucial role in Jenny's recovery.

Jenny emphasizes the importance of never giving up and finding hope in healing.

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Transcript

Hear Me Roar (00:32)

This is a slightly different episode today because we have to give a trigger warning at the very beginning. The subjects covered today involve child sexual abuse and so if this is something that you can't listen to then now might be a good time to switch off. However, it's a positive discussion.

We're talking to Jenny Hodgson and ⁓ Jenny's going to be telling us about some of the techniques that she used that helped her live a positive life even after going through the most horrendous trauma. Have a notepad ready if you want to take some notes as Jenny explains what she's done as we go along. And the

Show notes for this podcast will include some organisations that might be able to help too. So after what felt like a lightbulb moment in her teens, Jenny changed from being a laid back kid into a highly driven, slightly obsessive perfectionist. A published writer at 21, winner of scholarships and an Ivy League graduate, she became a fast streamer in the civil service

(so that's where you shoot into the senior civil service) before moving into the private sector. She even featured in a national newspaper for her achievements. Then she hit her 40s and everything caught up with her and her life as she knew it changed forever. And now she's getting back to being that laid back kid and she's living a new type of life that she never even imagined was possible.

So let's go and meet Jenny.

Hear Me Roar (02:20)

Hi Jenny! Hi Jenny!

Jenny Hodgson (02:22)

Hi Yvonne, hi Marie, nice to see you.

Hear Me Roar (02:25)

Lovely to meet you. Lovely to see you too. So hands up here, you are somebody that I know already and I asked you to come on because you are one of my personal inspirational people simply because you never bloomin' stop. You've got your fingers in every pie. But you said that you weren't like that as a teen, you were far more laid back and then you had a light bulb moment in your teens.

that changed you into being far more driven and perfectionist. So take us through your early experiences and what made you change how you approached life.

Jenny Hodgson (03:07)

So the time I didn't really understand what was happening to me, but it was kind of wonderful actually. I was a real tomboy. I loved playing football with the boys across the road. I didn't have a huge amount of interest in school. I was very much a C/D student, you know, just very, very average. And I much preferred playing out to

reading books or anything, you know, this was just how I was, played, you know, Lego, football, things like that. And one night, my mum had gone to bed early, my mum was really ill when I was a kid, she used to go to bed early. And I remember it was Channel 4, I've got to thank for this. And it was a, an art programme, just happened to be on, flicked on. And I saw this

Hear Me Roar (03:48)

ha

Jenny Hodgson (03:56)

image and this painting and it was as if, it was as if a dart had gone through me in a way. was, I felt this huge sense of recognition. It was a really strange experience. Almost like, at the time I believed it was deja vu or past life. I was trying to understand this as a, you know, 13 year old and

Hear Me Roar (04:12)

Mm-hmm. ⁓

Jenny Hodgson (04:22)

It was about Dante Rossetti and the Pre-Raphaelites, randomly, who I'd never heard of, I'd never had any interest in art at all, or literature. from that, well, the next day, I remember telling my mum about it, it a marvel that I'd seen on TV and I had to know more. So that's where it all started my interest in...

Hear Me Roar (04:30)

Mm

Jenny Hodgson (04:46)

First it was the pre-Raphaelite brotherhood, then I moved on to poetry and I became, I just read book after book after book. And it was like, it was like this awakening in my life. I felt all these new worlds were opening up to me.

I just was living in a whole new world, but...

on reflection and now I kind of understand better erm it was a world of escapism and I was really lucky that I or feel like my brain found such wholesome interesting things I could have gone into drugs and drink to escape you know what I'd been going through I was abused as a child and I'd had

quite a few years of really, really struggling on my own. And then this was, you know, I call it a lightbulb moment because in a way I feel that I was saved in some way. And it's, you know, I just feel so lucky in a way I happened to maybe I was having, I think probably was having a crisis moment at that time. And thank goodness for that.

Hear Me Roar (05:42)

Mm-hmm.

Wow, and that kind of drove the rest of your, well the next few decades of your life, didn't it?

Jenny Hodgson (06:01)

Yeah, I mean, it's something, I guess I became a bit obsessive. You know, I got to, I was really lacking in self-confidence and self-worth. You know, I had a lot of shame and disgust about myself and I never felt I was good enough. So I worked and I worked and I worked and then quickly, guess it's quite, you know, like Pavlovian, you work hard, you get better grades, you get praise and applause. So.

Hear Me Roar (06:24)

Yeah. ⁓

Jenny Hodgson (06:26)

You know, at university I used to get up at four o'clock in the morning and start work so I could be four hours ahead of anyone else around me. We used to have hand essays in on a Thursday, so on a Monday I would only get five hours of sleep. On a Tuesday I'd get, allow myself three hours of sleep. On a Wednesday I wouldn't sleep at all. So I was working as hard as I could to deserve that grade because I didn't feel like I deserved it.

Hear Me Roar (06:31)

Wow.

Jenny Hodgson (06:52)

So it was a good thing, because I did great. I got a first, I won scholarships, I got into an Ivy League university as a graduate scholar, but it wasn't a very healthy way of living. I probably tipped over into being a workaholic. But I did well. I got into the Civil Service Faststream, which is an accelerated graduate program. I got into the Senior Civil Service within 18 months of joining.

worked like a lunatic and I kept working like a lunatic till my early 40s and then I had a major burnout and that was, it was maybe coming because you know as we get older we can't keep going the same way but also it was at the time of the Me Too movement and I had no idea you know anything of that related to me in a way because

Hear Me Roar (07:39)

Right.

Jenny Hodgson (07:46)

I hadn't forgotten what I'd experienced as a child. I was sexually abused, but I just parceled it away. I'd spent the years before discovering good old Dante Rossetti, trying to forget about it, trying not to think about it. And that just becomes a way of being. It was something I refused to think about, any scenes on TV of that nature. I just...

would not look at or I'd go out of a room, it made me feel really uncomfortable. I would avoid reading about these things just as habit, it become a habit really. But with me too, you couldn't avoid it, it was everywhere. And that's when I started to experience symptoms of PTSD. I didn't know what was happening at the time.

Hear Me Roar (08:24)

You

How did that manifest itself? What were the symptoms?

Jenny Hodgson (08:37)

Well, for years, I only ever used to have nightmares. Every night I'd have these horrendous, terrifying nightmares of being chased to be raped and murdered. And well, I kind of thought it was normal and these started to get worse. And one day my partner, think I'd woken up in a bit of a state, and my partner turned around and said, do you know, Jen this isn't normal.

And that was kind of like, well, it's normal for me. This isn't normal. Maybe you should go and get some help. And it never occurred to me that I could change that. I was so, you know, when you've had 30 years of it every night, it's completely a normal experience. But these nightmares had started to get so bad, I was scared of going to sleep. You know, I'd just dread.

what I was going to experience. And that's really where my journey to understanding what was, why I was as I was, why I was having the nightmares, why I was so driven. It was almost like, and I knew I was aware of this, if I didn't have my head really into something like my work or...

something mental to keep my mind occupied. I mean, I always had to keep myself mentally on the go, because if I wasn't, I would really struggle with, you know, depressive thoughts and anxiety and things. And

I just, you know, it was if I just couldn't do that anymore.

Hear Me Roar (10:04)

So do you think you were running away from it basically

Jenny Hodgson (10:08)

Yeah, mean, literally I was running every night. I just spend all my nights running, running, hiding in fear. And then in the day I would be again, you know, just working like an idiot.

you know, nothing was ever good enough. So I always remember I needed to feel, I used to tell myself if I didn't suffer, I wasn't working hard enough. And if I wasn't working hard enough, I didn't deserve to be where I was

Hear Me Roar (10:30)

yeah

Jenny Hodgson (10:36)

I've read a reasonable amount about this now, a lot of us don't think the best of ourselves, that's kind of human behaviour, isn't it? But shame, you know, huge amount of shame and disgust. You know, when I was a child, we didn't have the internet, I was very much on my own. This was something which happened to me when I was at

Hear Me Roar (10:44)

Mm-hmm.

Jenny Hodgson (10:59)

primary school so I was very young and

I remember feeling like I would rather die than my mum find out. I was just terrified about her finding out, anyone finding out. I just kept it, wild horses wouldn't have dragged it out of me. I still kind of felt, you put it behind you as an adult because you move away.

You do things to keep yourself feeling safe, keep yourself occupied. But again, when I hit my early 40s and there's people telling the stories, there's things which resonated so strongly with my experiences, it was suddenly like I couldn't stop it coming out. I had to get it out. I remember this feeling of wanting to turn this dark

literally dark secrets from within me and just to go get it out, you know, I had to get it out.

Hear Me Roar (11:56)

So at what point did you come to the acceptance that none of this was your fault? Because obviously with an abuser, it's pinned on you, it's your fault. You're the one that feels the shame, that's how you're conditioned to feel. What brought you to the point where you could go, actually that wasn't my fault?

Jenny Hodgson (12:06)

yeah.

I'm not going to say I still struggle with it, but...

It's something which I will say even now with everything I've done.

I'm not 100 % able to tell myself I'm not to blame because I can still, you know, I'd like to imagine an alternate turn of events where I did fight him off, where I did do things differently, where I did seek help. But at the same time, I kind of, I've done enough, you know, do a lot of kind of meditation work. I can stand back and say,

Hear Me Roar (12:45)

you

Jenny Hodgson (12:46)

I know that's not realistic. I was a child. But I'm 50 now. So I've had 40 years of ⁓ thinking like that. So, it's fine. It's not in a damaging way anymore, but it's, I've got to be truthful with you. can't, I just wish, I still wish it had been different, but at the same time, I wouldn't be the person I am. I wouldn't have had the wonderful experiences I've had in life.

And, it's like I'm looking now at stacks and stacks of piano music and records and books and things which excite and interest me. And that's almost the gift that I feel has been given to me by life as...

Hear Me Roar (13:21)

Hmm.

Jenny Hodgson (13:28)

it's not compensation for what happened in a way, but I don't think I would have been driven down this road and discovered so much joy in life in some ways.

Hear Me Roar (13:37)

Yeah. So, you were saying that you had this kind of a moment where your partner was going, that's not normal. What did you do? Did you act immediately? Did you listen?

Jenny Hodgson (13:46)

Mmm. Mmm.

I did actually, because

it was like, wow, you know, the thought of not having, the thought of having a nice dream. I mean, my partner, would say, well, I have normal dreams. These are my dreams. I'm like, wow, wouldn't that, that's just amazing. So yeah, booked in with a ...found a therapist in the local town and booked in with her and

Hear Me Roar (14:02)

Mm hmm

Jenny Hodgson (14:14)

it's like a lot of the things you can have symptoms, but what's the cause? And I wasn't really at all hadn't occurred to me. There was a cause underneath, you know, these dreams really. Cause again, you parcel abuse away, it's little box, all shut up, tucked away. But what you don't realize until you maybe go into therapy or learn more about

trauma is that it's actually a bit of a leaky box and things are seeping out. And then someone once described it to me as a Pandora's box when it opens all hell lets loose and it is there and actually it is best dealt with and it can be dealt with. And so very quickly this therapist got to the cause and she

Hear Me Roar (14:43)

Yes.

Right.

Jenny Hodgson (15:03)

linked them up. I had no idea that being sexually abused could result in nightmares, could result in depression, could result in anxiety, could result in maybe obsessive behaviours, avoidance tactics. And it was like, wow, I just had no idea, but I think I'd not wanted to even entertain that and go down that route maybe.

Hear Me Roar (15:20)

Yeah.

No, you probably had to be at a stage in your life when you were ready to face that because no box is ever going to be leak proof and what happened to you will absolutely have impacted your whole life even though you wouldn't have thought so at the time.

Jenny Hodgson (15:28)

in my head.

Yeah.

Yeah, and that was what was now, it's again, is it another light bulb moment, I guess. It's like that light is, you know, shone on. I could reflect back and see all these things.

But also it was really painful at the same time because, well firstly, PTSD, well this all started to happen. guess I've skipped a bit ahead but.

When she first said those words, my instinctive reaction was to go and read more about it.

Hear Me Roar (16:12)

Mm-hmm.

Jenny Hodgson (16:13)

But what I didn't realize is how careful you've got to be with triggering. So I got a book, something like The Body Keeps A Score, which is a really well-known book, but there's examples of trauma that you read about. Well, it was that Pandora's Box Opened, and before I knew it, I was reliving what had happened to me, literally.

Hear Me Roar (16:18)

Hmm.

Jenny Hodgson (16:36)

One of the awful, I just remember this awful moment, which I think, if I just give you this one example, you'll have enough. I was just going to the toilet and pulled my knickers down and suddenly it was him pulling my knickers down. Literally in that moment, you know, it was just, it was awful. It was so real. It was so real. And what you learn about

PTSD is you literally, your brain is reliving these shards of experience which are too traumatic to process.

Hear Me Roar (17:05)

Yeah.

Jenny Hodgson (17:06)

And, like the dreams now I understand it was my brain trying to process that fear of getting kind of chased and,

Hear Me Roar (17:17)

Yeah.

Jenny Hodgson (17:17)

kind of caught by

that person again and again and again, but I could never process that because I could never get through it.

Hear Me Roar (17:26)

Yeah.

Jenny Hodgson (17:27)

But

there is a real positive because there are things out there that can help you process those memories and that's what I was lucky enough to be able to access and really change my life and turn my life around.

So I did have some talking therapy and I have to say that while it was maybe helping me understand more about my experiences and

how those might have led me to be how I am. So for instance, I always thought that I was depressive because of the serotonin imbalance in my brain, because that's what, you know, that was the common explanation for depression. I've just got a chemical imbalance. But actually I now know that trauma leads to depression. And I now know that...

Hear Me Roar (18:16)

Yes.

Jenny Hodgson (18:19)

since I've had my treatment, it's lifted and it's never come back. I feel like a different person in that respect. Again, you can tell yourself that this is who you are, this is your personality, but actually it's not necessarily, and that's where I want to give out a real message of hope to anyone who's experienced similar things to myself. And I know there'll be a lot.

Hear Me Roar (18:26)

Where?

Mm-hmm.

Jenny Hodgson (18:44)

because

when I came out about my experiences, I was astonished and very horrified at how many friends, female friends I had who'd also experienced various levels of sexual abuse. ⁓ But yeah, sorry, back to the therapy. So I, again, was very lucky. I had a friend who'd been a counselor and she recommended a charity.

Hear Me Roar (18:56)

Wow.

Jenny Hodgson (19:09)

that she knew of that could provide me with various types of therapy for PTSD should I qualify. And I initially did a little bit of talking therapy with them, but wasn't really progressing. And they recommended me for EMDR, which is Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprogramming Therapy.

Hear Me Roar (19:26)

which is?

⁓

I've heard of that, Tell us about that.

Jenny Hodgson (19:34)

Wow.

Yeah. So, I started that within a few weeks. I was, so, so lucky. And so, basically, you...it's like...a bit like magic. We do say it's like magic, and I'm not sure we entirely know how it works, but...so, when...when you go to sleep at night, I think a lot of people will know this, your eyes flicker, and that's when you're processing the memories of the day.

Hear Me Roar (19:57)

Yeah.

Right?

Jenny Hodgson (20:01)

and you're processing what's been happening to you. Now when you experience trauma, your brain can't process these memories. And that's where trauma then starts to, it sits in the brain as I see it, and you're still on permanent alert. You've not parceled those memories away. So with EMDR,

Hear Me Roar (20:17)

Mm-hmm.

Jenny Hodgson (20:19)

you literally look at a stimulus. Now this was during COVID, so I was doing mine on Zoom. So I had to tap shoulders and look down. So I'm seeing this in my peripheral vision, I'm seeing this movement. And then what you do is you work with your therapist. It was very, very difficult, but it was one of the best experiences of my life actually. think actually.

Hear Me Roar (20:34)

Mmm. ⁓

Jenny Hodgson (20:45)

What I experienced, if everyone could experience it, you don't necessarily need to experience trauma to do it, but that reprogramming of those memories was incredible. you have to relive what happened to you, which I was so shocked at first when she told me this and surely I can't, I can't do it. But I was given the reassurances and I read up about how effective the therapy was.

Hear Me Roar (20:57)

It's

Jenny Hodgson (21:08)

And so I'll give you one of my memories because it's not sexual, it's just one of the things that was done to me. He would beat me to, as a warning, not to tell anyone and wind me. So he'd hit me kind of in my diaphragm.

And I remember being hit in my diaphragm and not being able to breathe. I remember just trying to take in air and feeling there was none and that I was going to die, you know, I was only a young child and that horrendous feeling. that was, it was actually the first memory that came to mind when she said, let's choose one.

Hear Me Roar (21:29)

Mmm.

Yeah.

Jenny Hodgson (21:53)

And, well, that wasn't too bad really, but that was, yeah, just that feeling of literally not being able to breathe. And so you start the tapping, we did some meditation first, going to a safe place, because you've kind of got to get into a good mental state to do this. So don't go trying this at home, do it professionally, if you're listening to this and it relate, you you might think it's useful, you do need a professional therapist, I'm summarizing here.

Hear Me Roar (21:59)

Mmm.

Jenny Hodgson (22:18)

So you're doing the tapping whilst I had to go over and over this memory and speak it out as I was reliving it. It was really, really difficult. And I kind of went into a dream. It's like a dream state. It was like I was awake. I was looking at the camera, but I was dreaming. So I guess maybe you're self-hypnotizing. And...

I'd go over and over being punched and rebreathing and punched and rebreathing and punched and rebreathing. And then suddenly he's about to punch me. And I just remember standing, I stood back and I took a big football kick. So I was keen on football as a child and I was, you know, a child in, as I was remembering this. And I just remember kicking him and he just kind of flew, just zoomed into a distance where I couldn't see him anymore. And

It sounds silly and cartoon-like, but in that moment, my brain had processed that with an acceptable ending, an ending I could deal with. Even though it's not real, it didn't matter. And it sounds simplistic and it sounds childlike, but that's forcing that processing of that memory. we went from that to obviously more difficult memories.

but you're processing them like you're in a dream, but then they really did go away and they cease, you know, I can think about what was done to me without feeling intense emotion, without feeling upset and without feeling fear and unsafe. And it's just now, instead of feeling like something I can't bear to think about or something that makes me feel.

anxious or tense or you know all those things it now I feel safe it feels like something that did happen 40 years ago and it's so it's obviously not okay that it happened but it's something that I can now see it's just been it's a part of my life it's I wouldn't be where I am today and I'm just so happy and thankful where I am today and the experiences I've had in my life

Hear Me Roar (24:06)

you

Jenny Hodgson (24:22)

And yeah, it's made it just another experience really.

Hear Me Roar (24:27)

And that's all, that's finding a good therapist and a good counsellor is absolutely key, isn't it? Because that's what's brought you to this point, that you found somebody who could work you through it and knew what you doing and...

Jenny Hodgson (24:39)

Oh yeah.

And I think the message, you know, if I was going to say anything about this is never give up. There's so many different therapies. There's so many different things you can do. I mean, I've done a lot myself as well. It's not just EMDR. So, you know, I do meditation. I got the daily calm app, took out a lifetime subscription, you know, 10 minutes a day, start off with that.

Hear Me Roar (24:45)

Hmm.

Jenny Hodgson (25:05)

⁓ I was going, I was trying everything and some things you feel connect and work for you and some things just didn't work for me.  journaling. Yeah, I had to go at that. Knitting is a big one that really helped me. Again, it was just a way of focusing my mind on something, but something I could pick up and put down because by this point I'd also

Hear Me Roar (25:13)

Mm.

Next.

Mmm.

Jenny Hodgson (25:33)

I'd had, this is over kind of an extended period really, but going through that, while I've maybe made it sound quite easy with the EMDR, for a few days later, you kind of go through this processing in your brain. I remember it feeling like what's going on with my brain. I could feel things were happening with my brain and you...

It's like, call it rewiring, and this again is something which really interests me and has given me so much, I would say hope. It's like, I know I can change the way my brain works now. I know I can change those patterns of fear and anxiety. I can change those and I have changed those and I will continue to change those. So meditation, getting...

Hear Me Roar (25:57)

Hmm.

Mm.

Jenny Hodgson (26:18)

healthy, interesting hobbies that relax and calm. Cold water, the whole Wim Hof method was a big part of all this as well. I call it my little toolbox. Yeah, so if I'm used to...

Hear Me Roar (26:27)

Bye.

I remember seeing pictures

of you on Facebook in your ice baths.

Jenny Hodgson (26:36)

Well,

we have, yeah, friend, a friend suggested it to me, you know, and at this time, we had a really cold winter and someone suggested it again and it was around the time when I was doing the EMDR and they said it can really help calm and lower those cortisol levels. And anyway, we've got a stream at the bottom of our garden. So I literally went and just.

Hear Me Roar (26:59)

Just got straight in there.

Jenny Hodgson (26:59)

I threw myself in the stream

I literally, I just laid in the stream. Yeah, it wasn't a very big stream either. I just laid in the stream. You know what Ophelia is? Is it Edward Millais Ophelia? It was like that, but a lot less elegance. Laid in the stream by a bridal way.

Hear Me Roar (27:10)

Yeah.

Jenny Hodgson (27:15)

But wow, I felt incredible. And I've got to say as well that the cold water, I actually, I've got to say for about three days prior, I started with cold showers. threw myself under... Well, I just want to, you know, I didn't know it was going to do anything for me. So, the first cold shower, I remember just like huddling under, absolutely. was horrible. It was horrible. Timed myself for like three minutes. It was awful. But I was really...

Hear Me Roar (27:27)

Yeah, like, break yourself in.

Okay.

Jenny Hodgson (27:43)

I was in that mindset, I was determined and almost desperate really. I desperately wanted to be right. I was struggling at this point with fatigue

Hear Me Roar (27:52)

Mmm.

Jenny Hodgson (27:55)

So, yeah, my first shower, cold shower was awful. The second cold shower was slightly less awful, but I think I committed to give it, you know, five days, something like that. I'm just quite right. I'm to go for it. So, the third cold shower. So, something to tell you before this is... And again, this relates to trauma. You close down...

you just close down, you know, and you have to go numb and try not to feel these things. And then even after it, the emotions, it's so damaging. You feel so strongly. I did these surges of emotions, but you kind of shut down. My whole life, I've always, you know, I'll smile and I, you know, do the right things, but I felt pretty dead inside.

And again, I thought that was just how I was, just kind of dead inside and pretending really. Not that I didn't feel happiness. I'd feel a surge of something when I was getting my head into things. Like my meetings, I used to get a thrill from, like achieving things, but it was very short lived and it was just like a lift up. again, it's a bit of a high really, and then I'd be back down.

Hear Me Roar (28:44)

Mm. ⁓

Jenny Hodgson (29:09)

and I just kind of thought that's me, that's just how I work and I've got to live with that and I didn't again associate it with what happened and this is why life is so different now, this is gone. Anyway, third day of cold showers, so here I am kind of dead inside, and I was under the shower, I was just stood there tolerating it with my timer on.

And then suddenly I felt this, it was like a burst of energy and light. It sounds crazy, but it's true. Went through me, I had my eyes shut, my head down, just getting through the shower. And I remember feeling this, just this like explosion of joy and happiness. was like, yeah, it was like nothing I'd ever experienced. And it was like,

Hear Me Roar (29:40)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Jenny Hodgson (29:58)

It lasted maybe a few seconds. And I got out of that shower and I thought, it's inside me. This is inside me. I do have, I can feel just, it was just joy, pure joy, pure joy. And from that was when I was like, I am doing this every day. If I can just feel that for a few seconds every day, I want to feel that. And so that's when I threw myself in the stream.

Hear Me Roar (30:11)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, but the thing is, your posts and your, that I saw on Facebook and your photos now, they were joyful. Like, here I am again!

Jenny Hodgson (30:24)

next time.

Yeah, I was so happy.

Well, it was like the best high ever, but what happened was that massive surge became a minute, became an hour, became a day. And then I just, it kind of things settled down. So I mean, I wasn't insanely happy, you know, it was like, was like all this, this happiness that had been locked away almost, it was like, it was suddenly there and infusing my body.

Hear Me Roar (30:42)

Yeah.

you

Jenny Hodgson (30:56)

Now I understand more about the vagus nerve and it stimulates the vagus nerve and how that can be kind of malfunctioning in people who've experienced trauma. I don't, you know, I'm no expert, but to me, what it felt like was it suddenly switched on.

Hear Me Roar (31:06)

me.

Jenny Hodgson (31:13)

these neural pathways, it's all connected. that was, these things all came hand in hand, the cold water, I would do the breath work before, I would do meditation, was throwing myself in the stream.

you know, doing everything I could and it all kind of, it's like a little jigsaw really, little pieces will be put into place. yeah, was just a process and you know, not having the nightmares anymore, not having the fear, starting to realize that this shame,

that I'd felt in myself not feeling good enough, you now know where that's come from. that comes from someone treating you in a certain way, doing things to you, telling you certain things, and you believe it, and your belief starts to become who you are. So I was able to stand back from that and go, no, I'm not that person. I'm not who he wanted me to be.

And it was like, I felt like I'd had a personality transplant. it was wonderful really.

Hear Me Roar (32:13)

you took control and you rebuilt yourself. Some aspects were probably felt a little bit scary. I imagine things like telling your family what happened. That must have been really hard.

Jenny Hodgson (32:18)

Yeah. Yeah.

I think it was probably harder for them than for me because, you know, when I think about my mum and knowing your daughter's gone through that and you weren't even aware and you weren't able to...

Hear Me Roar (32:36)

Right.

Mm.

Jenny Hodgson (32:49)

prevent that from happening. You weren't able to comfort them. That's because the very nature of abusers, they want to keep the person they're abusing quiet, don't they? The whole part of the torture of what they put you through is how they will isolate you, how they will make sure you don't tell anyone.

Hear Me Roar (33:06)

yeah

mm

Jenny Hodgson (33:11)

you know, it's kind of all part of, part of the abuse. So, do, you know, my mum's been really amazing, really, because she's experienced difficulties in her life with her health. I've had, again, I feel kind of blessed in a way, because I've had the most incredibly supportive family. I've got a wonderfully supportive partner who helped me through it. And people who love me very much and that

again, I've got to think, well, I consider myself a totally unlovable person, but hold on, I've got all these people who love me. And you've kind of got to reflect on those things and be able to stand. It's been a big process in realising, but it's about standing back from your thoughts and realising what is an assumption and what is actually factual.

Hear Me Roar (33:58)

So your family have been incredibly supportive in that kind of taking control and rebuilding yourself process then. Yeah.

Jenny Hodgson (34:04)

Mmm.

Well,

in a way, really from the start. mean, my mum didn't, she did say, I did wonder where you got the interest in art from. because again, when I was a kid, she didn't, she said I didn't realize where this interest came from, but I knew it made you happy. So she used to run me to bookshops, take me to galleries, we used to have these trips out together. She was slightly bemused about her poetry reading daughter

Hear Me Roar (34:20)

Right.

Jenny Hodgson (34:32)

but she was really incredibly supportive.

Hear Me Roar (34:35)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jenny Hodgson (34:37)

She just

wants me to be happy. And I'm really, really lucky. She didn't care when I left one job for another and I'd flit around.

but my mum's never she says as long as you're happy just follow your path.

Hear Me Roar (34:48)

Yeah. And so what did you do when you left the Civil Service and was it around the time that you left the Civil Service that all of this was becoming clear to you?

Jenny Hodgson (35:00)

No, no, that was, it was the time of me too. I think I remember, I accidentally watched the Jimmy Savile documentary and I actually think that's what did it.

Hear Me Roar (35:06)

Hmm.

Because you went on to become a tattoo artist, didn't you?

Jenny Hodgson (35:15)

Well,

for a while I wasn't very good at it.

it was just great fun I had a really really good time but it happened yeah it it happened around that time.

Hear Me Roar (35:23)

Yeah. So are you working now? I mean you say you've kind of come full circle and you've now got back to being that laid-back kid. Are you working now?

Jenny Hodgson (35:29)

Mmm.

Well I'm actually a lady of leisure at the moment, so maybe that's why I'm so laid back, but...

Hear Me Roar (35:38)

ha ha

Jenny Hodgson (35:40)

No, I'm actually retired now. So this has been, you know, I'm obviously extremely lucky to be in this position, but I've worked really, really hard and, worked hard, saved hard. And now, yeah, I've kind of been in that place where I'm, you know what work's like, you throw yourself into it.

Hear Me Roar (35:42)

Mm-hmm.

Yes, you have.

Jenny Hodgson (36:03)

you're, you know, and I always have thrown myself very heavily into work. So it's been kind of interesting to step back from that and look kind of for the first time, what do I want to do now? What do I want to do with my life? And it's, well, I have had the menopause to deal with as well, actually, of late. there's been, and that's been fun. And again, you know,

Hear Me Roar (36:26)

Well, it.

Jenny Hodgson (36:31)

It's fun for any woman as we know, but again, women who've experienced trauma can have more kind of issues from a hormonal perspective because again, another thing is the sensitivity of the body. I'm like really, really sensitive to things and less so now because I know how to manage that. So, I keep off the caffeine, I have a healthy diet.

Hear Me Roar (36:38)

Hmm. Yeah? Mm-hmm.

Jenny Hodgson (36:57)

minimal alcohol. I sleep like a baby now, which is wonderful. And I look after myself and I know that looking after my mind and body is what it's all about for anyone, but I do feel I have to do that.

Hear Me Roar (36:59)

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah. And are we right in thinking that you also play in a brass band?

Jenny Hodgson (37:16)

Yes, I do. yeah, mean, music's been one of my loves. it's something that's never left me.

and my partner, maybe, I think she wanted to get me out of the house, she's like, why don't you join a brass band?

Hear Me Roar (37:29)

Okay ⁓

Jenny Hodgson (37:33)

And

So yes, I play the euphonium. And again, my partner thought a big low instrument would be quieter rather than a shrill high one. How wrong was she?

It's like a yeah, it is, it is, but it's a lot of fun. Yeah. So I've got my euphonium and yeah, that's been great. I mean, music is another thing that stimulates the vagus nerve. You know, that's like these community choirs, know, the rock choirs and things like that. So many people are joining those because it's literally doing special things to your body.

Hear Me Roar (37:44)

I was going to say it's a big instrument, isn't it?

Music can be very healing. I love a good sing. If I'm down... Yeah, just belt it out the top of your voice. A good sing really helps.

Jenny Hodgson (38:17)

Well, and this is it. And you probably think, well, it's just making me feel better and lifting me up. But actually, it's doing real physiological things to your body. It's that mind-body connection.

Hear Me Roar (38:25)

Yeah,

Jenny Hodgson (38:28)

I got a book about the vagus nerve and it was like, what's good for the vagus nerve? Well, just so many things. know, music is just one of those things. And yeah, so I can heartily recommend it.

Hear Me Roar (38:40)

Yeah and we're seeing a stream of knitting and increasingly complicated jumpers appearing on Facebook Jenny. we're not on socks then, you're onto jumpers. proper, full on Fair Isle jobs. Wow.

Jenny Hodgson (38:49)

Yes, the five-year Gansey.

Yeah,

yeah, guess I've got a pair of gloves to finish, very fancy pair of gloves I'm on with at the moment. But no, knitting was again part of the therapy. So my mind was so exhausted because again PTSD, you're just going into panic, panic, panic, panic. And it really wears you out. You know, I used to go to bed, try and sleep, spend the night being tortured, you know.

and wake up black under my eyes and I just couldn't concentrate. It was really difficult. so knitting, yeah, I'd always, I don't know, I don't know where it came from, the idea to do it, but I remember my goal was to be able to count to five, because I would get distracted before that point. You know, it's incredible now, but I remember that count to five. And just that process of,

Hear Me Roar (39:23)

Yeah.

Jenny Hodgson (39:44)

Knitting's really basic, it really is. There's only two things you need to learn to knit and to purl basically. So just to do that knit stitch and be able to count to five was my goal. it was just, it was hard at first, but I remember achieving that and then just keeping going. And again, you know, we say we're knitting, you're, see, I don't know, but is that connection, your eyes are kind of moving to and fro. It's very repetitive and calming and relaxing.

Hear Me Roar (39:50)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jenny Hodgson (40:11)

And, you know, again, it's just one of those tools really. Go on.

Hear Me Roar (40:12)

It

it fits in with mindfulness in a way really because you're pushing everything else away and you're just focusing on ⁓what's kind of quite a tiny routine task.

Jenny Hodgson (40:20)

yeah.

100 %

it's very very mindful and again, you know, it can be mindful and relaxing but you can challenge yourself mentally if you want to do something a little bit, you know, like say fair isle you've got to do a lot of counting and concentrating and just to have that concentrated effort it was almost like training my mind and focusing my mind again. So again, I see knitting as you know, like crochet or

maybe embroidery can be really, really powerful. But again, you can just put it down and pick it up whenever you like. So again, if there's anyone out there who is looking for techniques, there's so many things you can do which can help help your mind. Whatever, it's like lowering anxiety levels, taking your mind off difficult things. I'm a big, I'm a big fan of crafting as well.

Hear Me Roar (41:16)

yeah

Yeah, that's good. Knitting therapy. Well, it has been amazing and we've really got only got one final thing, which sort of feels slightly jarring in in light of some of the things we've discussed. It does feel little bit frivolous. Yeah. But you know what? We're entitled to a little bit of frivol sometimes, aren't we? Yes.

Jenny Hodgson (41:45)

Can I just say though, it's not jarring because this is just life, isn't it?

Hear Me Roar (41:50)

Yes.

Jenny Hodgson (41:50)

these things are painful and I wouldn't encourage anyone to go shouting from the rooftop necessarily what's happened to them because you are, you've got to be prepared for what that's going to lead to. But at the same time,

Hear Me Roar (42:00)

Yeah.

Jenny Hodgson (42:04)

so many wonderful things have come out of it. And actually, I feel like I can face anything in life now

it obviously is an experience I'd rather not have had, but in a way now I feel really well set up for life.

Hear Me Roar (42:17)

Yeah, that's so just fantastic to hear because your episode is called Bouncing Back and you absolutely have bounced back and you've been so inspirational to listen to. Absolutely, yeah, definitely. Right, so we need to finish with our frivolous question. If you were a cocktail or mocktail, what would you be called and what would your ingredients be and why?

Jenny Hodgson (42:31)

Well, thank you.

Yes.

Right. Okay. Well, I'm actually... I'm going to just hope, if you don't mind, refer to my phone because I am such a geek, I had to... I did a little quiz so I could... I could be told what cocktail I would be.

I'm told as a result, I am a Reyka rhubarb cosmopolitan.

Hear Me Roar (43:02)

What? ⁓ what? was it? How do you spell the first bit?

Jenny Hodgson (43:05)

R E Y K A. She's a lady off Gardner's World, which I am a fan of and she has an allotment. She grows lots of really interesting fruits and vegetables and cooks them basically and things like that.

Hear Me Roar (43:11)

All right, okay.

Right here.

What was it

Jenny Hodgson (43:24)

Reyka

Rhubarb Cosmopolitan.

Hear Me Roar (43:27)

I don't know.

Okay.

Jenny Hodgson (43:28)

So

it's Tangy Rhubarb with Blood Orange.

with, just a gin shaken over ice with fresh lime. And I've got to consume it while looking pensively out of the window and debating my love life.

Does that sound about right?

Hear Me Roar (43:46)

Well, it's definitely a good one for someone who's a thinker. Well, that actually sounds quite nice. I think we'll look forward to trying that one.

Jenny Hodgson (43:56)

I love rhubarb, I mean

rhubarb gin is amazing isn't it, so yeah.

Hear Me Roar (44:00)

A gin. Marvelous.

I love a rhubarb crumble. I like a rhubarb gin. And on that note, I'm very hungry now. Yeah. And I want a rhubarb gin. Definitely.

Jenny Hodgson (44:04)

that too.

Hear Me Roar (44:11)

Right, thank you. Thank you so much, Jen. It's been fantastic talking to you and I hope that anyone who's listening, at the very least, if they've gone through a similar experience that they take away some hope here that things can be better. And I also hope that they take away some thoughts on different therapies that they...

they might want to try.

Jenny Hodgson (44:40)

I'd just

say never give up. The human brain is the most, isn't it, like the most complex known organism in the universe or something, literally. It's the most incredible thing and just have faith in yourself.

Hear Me Roar (44:48)

Yeah.

Jenny Hodgson (44:53)

I remember being in a really bad place and someone saying, don't worry, it'll get better. And I was really angry with them. I was like, how dare you say that to me? But actually, it was right. It does.

Hear Me Roar (44:58)

Yeah.

Thank you so much. Thank you for sharing your extremely inspirational story with us and our listeners. Thank you.

Jenny Hodgson (45:09)

Well thank

you for inviting me, I really appreciate it.

Hear Me Roar (45:12)

Thanks Jen.

Jenny Hodgson (45:14)

Okay, bye.