Finding Your True Identity in Christ: Breaking Free From Performance-Based Living with Michael Bartlett

For more than 30 years, Michael Bartlett had been following Christ. He had been born again as a child, served in ministry, taught pastors, and helped teenagers wrestle with identity. And still, at 41, something had not clicked. Then one truth finally did: he was trying to become something he already was. In this episode of The Guidelight, Michael and I talk about what changed when he stopped building identity around performance and started seeing himself the way God sees him.

That is the tension at the center of Christian identity. We are conditioned to ask, What do you do? How did you perform? What do other people think? Michael names three false places we keep reaching for identity: relationships, abilities, and worth measured by what we have. But identity in Christ works differently. It is not something we achieve. It is something we receive, reckon as true, and renew our minds around. Romans 12:2, Ephesians 1, and the freedom Michael found in Christ all point back to the same invitation: let God define you.

This one may expose how quietly performance has been naming you. Tune in to the full episode and ask the Holy Spirit to show you where approval, ability, achievement, or possessions are still defining you more than Christ is.

Michael Bartlett is also known as Pastor B, a longtime pastor and ministry leader whose own journey with identity in Christ became personal in his early 40s. He became a Christ follower as a child, later served as a youth pastor and family pastor, and found himself helping teenagers understand who they were while realizing he had not fully understood who he was in Christ. His journey has been shaped by Dr. Charles Solomon's exchanged life teaching and Neil Anderson's Freedom in Christ. Michael has taught these truths to teenagers and pastors, and in this conversation he shares the freedom that came when he stopped measuring identity by performance and began letting God define who he already was in Christ.

Connect With Pastor Michael:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/michael.bartlett.33/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-bartlett-57a8a347/

Jason Trent is the host of The Guidelight Podcast and the founder of Guidelight Legacy Advisors. The Guidelight is a discipleship platform for the awake heart — the man or woman in any seat, at any income, in any season whose soul has started asking questions their circumstances can't answer. Jason walks listeners through the Seven Guidelight Pathways — Purpose, Identity, Inner Battle, Wisdom, Covenant, Stewardship, Legacy — toward wholeness: shalom, nothing missing.

He has lived on both sides of the fence — lack and abundance — and speaks to both without pandering to either. He lives with his wife Kellie and their youngest, Sadie, on a small homestead in Brevard, North Carolina. Acts 20:24 is the verse his life is built around.

Grace and peace.

Connect with Jason Trent:
 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trent-jason/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/guidelight-insurance/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/The-Guidelight/61575862355860/ 

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SPEAKER_00 0:03

The Guidelines is for business owners ready to make the biggest move of their career. If you're selling or transforming a $2 to $10 million EBITDA company, host Jason Trent brings you the strategies, the pitfalls to avoid, and the insider stories from those who have been there. This is more than closing a deal. It's about protecting your legacy and thriving in what comes next. Listen to the Guidelines and lead your next chapter with clarity and confidence.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

And man, I'm super stoked about today. Uh this gentleman on the other side of the screen is uh Michael Bartlett, aka Pastor B, one of my closest and dearest friends. And um here lately on the Guy Light Podcast, we've been talking about identity, and I I could not share with you anything around our identity in Christ without bringing on uh my dear friend Michael to share some of his own um experiences and journey on this. He and I have been you know walking this whole pathway with uh Dr. Charles Solomon and Neil Anderson's Freedom in Christ, but just life, just our kids and the and the life and our and our wives, our families just uh sharing this journey together has just been uh it's been amazing. It's been amazing. So without that said, I want to I'm gonna kick us off with a question. And Michael's ask you this question, you can expound a little bit, but it's kind of one of these things I just want to I just want to hit the ground running uh when it comes to identity. And so one of these things that I I had in my mind, because I was reflecting on this not long ago, about when this journey and this understanding of identity really hits your plate. And just uh what did that look like? Tell us about that experience because you've been a follower. Why don't you talk about you've been a follower of Christ, your history, and just that moment of when this build us up to that a little bit, and I'll I'll turn it over to you.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Well, sounds good. Thank you. It's good to be with you, Jason. We've walked through a lot of things together, and uh but for me, uh I was born again around the age of 10, 11, um, and uh, you know, grew up in a Christian home and things fell apart there that it pushed into my identity. But I bec became uh uh a youth pastor in your area and had the privilege of being the family pastor for your boys. And I was really fleshing this out with myself because here I am 41, I'm a youth pastor, I don't have the muscles and the you know the cool hair and the the accent, and here I am dealing with teenagers trying to find out who they are. At the same point, same time in my life, I didn't know who I was, uh, who I was in Christ. And so around the age of 41, I'm 54 now, so 13 years ago, 2013, I started uh teaching some of this material that you mentioned, uh, the exchange life with Dr. Charles Solomon. And I was I was teaching it to a group of pastors, and I didn't quite understand it. Um but I went off to the conference in Pigeon Forge and uh and the light bulb just clicked. Uh, that I was trying to become something I already was, and I didn't really understand who I was in Christ. So I I think I'd been looking for it for 30 some years as a born-again Christ follower, but I never had really understood who I was in Christ. And here I was trying to help uh teenagers figure out who they are, navigate this world. And when it hit me, it it changed my life.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

So, like one of the things, again, like being a pastor, I think it's it's one thing to experience is just someone that's on their journey. But like I said, you know, I remember you and I know uh Pastor Alan, yeah, he always talked about when you realize come to that realization, it's almost like being saved again because it's this this new level of understanding of what God really says about you. And the one thing I get a little choked up thinking about it is I think about the healing that takes place in your soul and your spirit, and just your your you know, your mind, will, and emotions are all in your soul. We have to get all that fed through the spirit that that's complete 100%. It's lacking nothing, has full shalom, nothing missing, nothing broken. But when the Holy Spirit comes in and you start realizing and believing who you are, it's just you're it's it is like it's a new person, you're a new person. You're operating out from who he created you to be. Oh what was that like in doing ministry from that understanding versus what you had done, you know, decade or so prior to that?

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Yes, a hundred percent. I remember that conversation. I was leaning up against a vehicle, I think it was a truck, talking to Alan Perry, explaining my new identity that I found in Christ and the freedom that came with that. And and he said, Yeah, and I said that same statement, it meant more to me than my salvation, and obviously not to take away from uh being uh forgiven of our sins and uh being reconciled to the Lord is obviously the most meaningful thing in our lives. But the emotion, the peace, uh the healing of damaged emotions that I had, the me trying to go out and and achieve uh who I am, especially in ministry. You asked that question. You know, I I was only as good as my last sermon. You know, I was only as good as my last counseling session, or my last interaction, or my last gospel conversation with someone. And uh we know that can ebb and flow. Um we can have good days, bad days, we can have perform well and feel good about ourselves. But here's the point that changed me. When I started to see myself the way God sees me, the the freedom and the burden that came with that was lifted from that was so enlightening, uh so freeing, and just allowed me that the scriptures came alive, some of the old hymns, some of the songs, but some of the things just I saw everything new and afresh uh when I finally saw myself the way God sees me, and not the way I see me, not the way others see me, but when I let him define me and my new identity, uh it was a game changer.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

I think I shared um, I think I shared this on my last podcast. I don't know. Sometimes I have conversations with people, and I'm like, would I share that on the podcast? That's just a conversation, like something I don't know. But um I I remember I I'll never forget whenever I um was walking through this, you know, I had the head knowledge and all these things, and but I certain things weren't getting traction. And it's like, I know this is true, I believe it, but just something either wasn't clicking or you know, it just it wasn't staying grounded. I don't know what it was, but I and I remember I was getting, I was being honest with you, I was a little frustrated. I was like, I was like, God, like I know this is what it is. Why am I not seeing the fruit out of this belief? And like, what is it? And I was I'll never forget. I remember the moment it happened, I mean, and I just I was like kind of not arguing with God, but like, you know, come on, you know, this is true, but I'm not seeing it. And I know like being a pastor, you've you've I'm sure, and maybe you've experienced that a little bit, but I know you've seen that in other people's lives. Like, what would you say to someone that once they understand this and they start, you know, it's a journey. It's and then like I said, I'm I'm 53 years old. I've kind of known and understood these truths for and well over a decade or more, and just it's something they're still working on. But you know, if you if someone gets to that point and they're frustrated, like tell me a little bit about that and what you see and or and or what you've experienced in that in that space.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Once you understand that truth, you want everybody to get it. And it it's a long journey, you know. You want everybody, so I I came back and taught it to the youth for eight months straight. They were up on the you know, whiteboarding and they were doing the material. And but think about this, you're a pretty strong guy. When when your wife brings you or someone brings you a jar and and the lid is stuck, and you know, you're banging on the counter, you you try, you know, you grip it, you you get, you know, you're trying, but all of a sudden it's just sometimes somebody can just hand it to somebody and they just it just pops. It just pops open. And uh and that's what it was like for me. I mean, it just it just popped open, it just clicked. Um, I think God had been slowly, those passages of scripture that I'd memorized as a teenager in college, and uh he'd just been slowly loosening that that jar. And when it popped open, when I was at, again, I taught this to pastors. Uh I went through it myself, but when I went to the conference and it just clicked and popped open, I was like, wow, I get it now. I see myself the way God sees me, and I get to let Him define me, and I still struggle with it. We'll probably talk about that later, but you know, I still wrestle with it at times, but once you get it, you want everybody to get it.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Well, that's a good segue. So, like, you know, we the struggle. Like, what does that look like? What does that look like for you? Um, what does it look like for people you've ministered to in just the the continual struggle? And and what does that look like? And and and how does a person what does a person do with that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Well, I think we're so conditioned to a performance-based world. Uh uh, what's your name, Jay? So what do you what do you do for a living? What what do you do? Oh, this this defined me, or how how did that go? How'd you do? How'd you do on the test? How did how did practice go? Or how did you do in the game? And so we get so used to performing and achieving and and doing that it's uh it is hard to just receive it. Um to kind of tie what I said a little bit ago to this, it's salvation. Did I do anything to get born again? No, I just received that truth, I received that grace and mercy when I repented of my sins and turned and put my faith and trust in the completed work of Christ and and uh his atonement for me. It's the same with identity. You just have to um receive that truth. But it's easy to fall back into, well, how'd I do? You know, how was that last sermon? It's funny, sometimes I'll I'll I'll think I dropped a bomb, laid an egg, and people come up just in tears, and Pastor Michael, that was the best sermon ever. I'll think it, you know, so so it's just it I can slip back into that old identity of trying to perform, um, trying to achieve and base it on maybe some of my standards and my performance. Uh so I fight with it every day. I have to renew my mind. We know that verse in Romans 12, too. Don't be conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of my mind. I have to renew my mind around this truth literally daily, uh weekly. And that helps me to maintain that walk of freedom and that new identity.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

I love what you said there, and you said I receive it. And I know you and I talking, you know, I listen to some podcasts and stuff, and so this new term that I think a lot more of the charismatic Pentecostal folks, they always talk about receiving it. And I'm not talking about um, you know, prosperity preaching, whatever, but it it is that understanding. I think they use that term a lot about um, I receive that. I receive that. And then to me it sounded a little cliche when I started hearing some of these folks in that you know type of ministry saying that. But then God really showed me, He's like, Well, Jason, are you receiving it? And I'm like, Well, well, yeah, I'm I I receive that. And then so, but he started showing me that no, there is a there's there's there's a head-to-heart pathway that we just we need to open up our hearts and and have that conversation with God and say, I I do receive this. And then, and you think about that, just even just the the psychological aspect of saying I receive that, it does something to where it really opens you up to where sometimes I think some for me, so I'll say for me, like the areas I was struggling with or I was getting frustrated with is the reason I wasn't receiving it was because I was not willing to surrender something. There was something in my uh heart and in my soul that had been there, you know, for who knows how long, that even though God told me I was accepted, I would still strive to please other people or want their validation. And he he was just like, Why why are you still looking for that, Jason? Why why are you still saying why are you still looking for that? Like I, you you haven't received my you know truth that you are accepted. And he and I just the Holy Spirit just really had to do a number on me. And and I think I've shared this before, but God, he touched me one day, and when he did it and healed me of that, I was just like, it was like, ah, there it is. There it is. And I think it's that like you're talking about that wrestling and just the struggle we all go through, no matter what it is. And I was reading recently just in the scripture about persistency, like not giving up, standing firm in your faith. Um, all those things, all those characteristics that scripture calls us to, of no matter where you're at in your journey with this, and understanding your identity or uh the just different aspects of our life, it may not even fully come to our identity piece, is that persistency, God's word, having conversations, being open to receive it. I mean, I think that I mean, does that kind of speak to what you're saying and maybe the question that I was talking about? Anything anything you want to add to that or thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Yeah, it sure does. You know, Romans 6 and 8 talks about being dead to sin and alive to God. But there's a term in there that that's uh the Bible says to reckon yourselves. That's an accounting term, you know. It means to look at these numbers and look at these facts, and don't look at your faith, don't look at your feelings, don't look at how you're performing and doing, but but reckon these things. And so it is kind of a not a name it, claim it, but it is to believe it and receive it, and receive it and believe it, and that constant, you know, I got to remind myself, oh, like when I look at my bank account, I reckon, oh, I got this amount, and if I spend this, I've got, and it comes out to a factual, you know, answer, and it is the same way with your identity. You've got to reckon these things to be true, and you've got to walk them out. You gotta know them here. Pretty soon they'll start coming into your heart and then into your hands and feet, I say, which is your your walk, your daily life, your daily conduct, uh, your lifestyle. Reckon yourselves to be a child of God. And what does that look like? And then when I start seeing myself, I said it earlier, when I started seeing myself and allowing God to define me and see myself the way he sees me with this new position I have in Christ, it changed everything.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

So, this next question I'm gonna ask, I want to be careful, and especially for anyone who's listening to this, because that it I'll phrase it how I phrase it, but it's just, I mean, this isn't throwing stones or anything. It's just in a lot of times I just I put myself like I was I may have just not been in a way to receive it, but even in your own words, when when you started this journey, you'd been in church, you'd been through seminary, you've been through all these other things. I wasn't, you know, transparency, I wasn't as devout and dedicated as you were uh in the lay world, but even in my faith talk journey. But I'd been in church for a long time, and I feel like I hadn't, I had not heard this taught or understood the teachings of this, and I was kind of like, where why aren't we hearing this? Because all everything we're talking about is scripture. Like, you know, I've got a download that you can click on, and it just shows all the scripture that talks about you know acceptance, significance, um, and uh security. Again, I've referenced Dr. Charles Solomon's teaching, I've referenced Neil Anderson. All this is is scripture. And you know, the idea was why does this seem new? Why did this seem like a new teaching? And then I'm not throwing stones at the church, but I'm just I mean, I don't know if you want to speak to that a little bit because you you you were on the pulpit, you had that understanding, you went through seminary, and I guess if someone's hearing this for the first time that was in your position as a pastor, um, what that's like. And before I turn it over, I will say this. Ever since I understood this teaching, I would hear it in different various pastors from all over the country, not brought together like we're bringing it as your identity, but because they're speaking the truth, I would hear parts of it here and there. I do feel like here uh more lately, I'm hearing people more succinctly put it in to the format that you know Solomon and Neil Anderson, I should say scripture. I don't like I don't, you know, I want to give them credit where credit is due just because our life journey, but back to it's just scripture. But you want to speak to that a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Yeah, I I think again, a lot of I didn't get it for years. Um and when you look at the Romans road, we know that usually look at that for salvation or justification. Um we look at, you know, for all of sin to fall short of the glory of God, and uh the wages of sin is death, and and 5, 8, and 10, 30, and just and and we kind of we we stop at the end of the Romans road of salvation. Again, if that's as far as you get, praise God. But that Roman's road doesn't stop there at salvation or justification, it continues with what we call three words Savior, Lord, and life. And if you get the savior part and you never make him the Lord, the master, you don't get the life. But if you get the savior part, praise God. You're on your way to heaven and your eternity has been changed, and you're a child of God, and that's wonderful. But the Romans road keeps going, it keeps going, and it helps us with not just uh uh uh being born again and justified to even understanding justification. I'm legally stamped righteous. That the the holy judge sent his son to bear this the the shame and and my sin on the cross, and when I got born again, he legally stamped me righteous. That's that's the first part. And if we don't understand that, it's hard to to become more holy, more set apart, uh uh make him Lord, and then life. You look at the the the children of Israel, uh they God raised up a savior, uh Moses, and they got him out of Egypt, but it's really hard to get Egypt out of us. You ever heard that before? Yeah, take there's phrases out there, you can take the the boy out of the country, but it's hard to take the country out of the boy, or you know, fill in those blanks. And it's hard it's easy to get it's pretty easy to get out of Egypt, you know, the the gospel, but it's hard to get me out of myself and the world out of myself. And so to to to to wrap up that answer, most leaders don't understand that, uh as I I did not. We preach a message. Now, here's four things you need to go and do. Here's the application. Now go do these things and your marriage is going to be better. Go do these things and you're gonna be a better evangelist. And and again, those things I I do it every Sunday, but if we don't understand our being, who we are in Christ, and our our standing in Christ, our unity in Christ, it's very hard to go back and let it well it's actually easy to go backwards, but to let that new identity flow through us um helps us. And so we have to understand it, we have to reckon it. And even with you, Jason, how many times did I share it with you? Quite quite a few times. You went to the conference, you went through the material, and it you know, all that was just again loosening the jar. And when you read the book, what was the book by Watchman Knee?

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Oh, uh Sit Watch Stand or Sit Walk Stand. Normal Christian Life. Yeah. I've read several of them, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Yeah, but sit, walk, stand's a good one too. We might get into that a little bit, but the nor it's just a normal Christian life to understand your new identity. Yeah. And when you read through that, that was just kind of click, I get it. Now I see myself, yeah, the way God sees. Me. I see my new identity and the freedom that comes with that of not having to achieve and perform, but look to my position and my new identity, my new standing in Christ. It's freedom. Freedom.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

And I'll add this to kind of segue us towards the close, and then I'll give you the last word as always. But I think one of the things that, you know, if anyone's listening and they get something out of this is just, you know, I kind of mentioned a little bit, is just pursuing God, pursuing his truth, asking and praying. I think, you know, at that time when I was walking through this, as I started to kind of get a little bit of understanding, I just kept pursuing. I kept asking. God continued to bring people, voices, understanding all around. And I think that's definitely a takeaway as we walk through this journey in our in our faith, this journey of sanctification that we're all on and still on, and we'll probably be on for you know on some level for all eternity, because even when we get to heaven, we're still gonna be learning and growing and uh won't have this wretched body on us anymore flesh, but it's still gonna be a growth thing. And I think that's one of the things that from my own experience and when I've seen others growing in their faith is just that that persistency, the the not giving up and just and just believing and hoping that, hey, I may not understand every aspect of this, but he does. As I lean into his word and I lean into these truths that other people, and I listen to the Holy Spirit. What you know, this morning we were in a men's group, we're talking about being a Berean, like looking at the word, what does it really say? Um, taking that back to uh the scholarly aspect of it, but also just to the Holy Spirit to speak into it. I think that's a key in this whole journey of finding our identity to be who God's created us to be. Um but with that said, like what what's the last thing you'd leave us with as far as just understanding identity and speaking to our listeners about uh things they may, you know, they maybe their ears are perked up on this, and maybe some things are resonating, and they're like, there's there's more to this. What what next? Like what would you want to say to those folk folks listening?

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Real quick, I'd say there's three sources that we all try to define ourselves out of. Three sources. That's our relationships, our people groups, that's our abilities, uh, what we can do, or what our hobbies or uh, you know, our grades or whatever it is. And then the third source is our worth, our stuff, our things. And, you know, go back to middle school, high school. I don't want to do that, but and you know, if I get good grades, and if I have a girlfriend, and if I'm on the basketball team, and if I have these things are gonna complete me, and it's not. Uh, we try to find our sources of identity, who we are, um, from false sources, and the only place to find it is is in Christ. And so I'm I'm even thinking of a Pastor Nate from your area. Uh he'd been so close, the the lid was about to pop, and I took him to Ephesians 1, and in less than an hour, he started reading Ephesians 1 and seeing himself the way God sees him, seeing his new identity and freedom in Christ, and it just clicked. He's like, How come I've never seen this? Well, it's just it's it's a process. It's a process for all of us. We sing that that song, I am who you say I am, I am chosen, I I am wanted, I I I'm adopted, I I am who you say I am, I'm I'm this, I'm holy. I re read Ephesians 1, and then verse 18. Paul understood this truth. He says, I pray that the eyes of your heart be illuminated to this truth. So so just pray and and ask the Holy Spirit and get into Ephesians 1. This is who I am. You mentioned that book by Watchman Knee. I love it because it's short and it's small. Those are my favorite books. The shorter and the smaller, you know, with maybe a few pictures in there to keep my attention. But he says, sit in Ephesians chapter one through three. And then chapter four, one, he says, now walk worthy of the manner in which you've been called. But if you don't understand the doctrine of your new identity and your position in Christ of chapters one, two, and three, you're not going to walk worthy. And then he verse chapter chapter five, it continues that, but chapter six, he says, Stand. Now stand firm in in the armor of God. But but sit in chapters one through three, sit in your new identity and then start walking out of that. We try to, we we get saved and we try to walk and run so quickly. A baby doesn't do that. A baby, a baby understands it's accepted. A baby understands it's significant, a baby understands it's it's secure, and it's done nothing. It poops, it pees, it eats, and it cries, and and it doesn't do anything. And it's still accepted in that that relationship with with you know the the family. Friends of ours just had a baby yesterday, and one thing I was reminded of that a baby can only see about 18 inches right after birth. And that's that's perfect perfect position for a for the mother and the father and the grandparents of the family holding that baby because it can only see a certain distance. And when we start to to see God up close and see his word and see who he says and let him define, he created me, he loved me, he died on the cross for me, he he rose again, he he reconciled me and saved me. So why would I not lean into who he says that I am? So pray, get into Ephesians, reckon it, and and watch what the Holy Spirit can do. And it's just a it's a fun journey, and praise God that we're all on a different different walk, a different path, but he's continually drawing us to himself and sanctifying us and uh praise the Lord for it.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Amen. Amen. Well, that's that's a mic drop right there, folks. I uh there's nothing else to say on that. So I just want to thank you for your time and joining us today. Uh and like I said, I should have some little uh info in the in the description if you want to explore a little more. And again, we've mentioned a lot of different resources. Uh and hey, if this was helpful to you, uh hit share, like it, uh, subscribe, we'll do all that kind of stuff, and just uh and just keep on you know, keep on keeping on, keep seeking him, and uh just let's keep growing. So uh we love you, we appreciate you, and have a blessed day.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Amen. You've been listening to The Guideline with Jason Trent, the show that helps business owners navigate the sale or transformation of their company with clarity and purpose. If you enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to rate and review the guideline on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Your feedback helps more business leaders discover the show. You can also watch full episodes and exclusive content on YouTube by searching for The Guideline with Jason Trent. Until next time, keep moving towards your next chapter with confidence.