Place and People: Designing for Flourishing and Collective Efficacy

What turns a school building into a place where students truly flourish?

In this episode of Evolution Stories, Christian Talbot sits down with Dr. Brian Kelly, Head of School at Carol Morgan School in the Dominican Republic, to explore how physical space and school culture work together to drive meaningful change.

Dr. Kelly shares the thinking behind Carol Morgan's new Arts, Innovation, and Dining Center, a space designed intentionally around student flourishing, and traces his own path into education and school leadership.

The conversation digs into the challenge every leader faces: how to meet the accelerating pace of change with genuine innovation while building a culture of collective efficacy. Dr. Kelly reflects on a pivotal realization, that leaders don't need to have all the answers, and that their real work is elevating the people around them to catalyze change together.

This episode is essential listening for leaders thinking about how the spaces they build and the cultures they foster can bring out the best in students and staff alike.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Evolution Stories by Middle States. This interview series is devoted to teaching you how to lead change in education. We're here because facilitating change in schools has never been harder or more important. So this is your place to learn from those who are leading the way. Okay. Welcome back. My name is Christian Talbot. I am the president of the Middle States Association, and this is Evolution Stories, and I am thrilled to introduce you today to Brian Kelly. Dr. Brian Kelly is the head of school at the Carol Morgan School in Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic. He's a deeply experienced international school educator and leader. He's led schools in not just the Dominican Republic, but also Colombia and Greece and South Korea and the United States. And he's been involved in a lot of change projects. But most recently at Carol Morgan, Brian oversaw the design and the construction and the programming and the opening of a purpose-built arts, innovation, and dining center, which is really kind of like a fascinating combination and blend for one particular physical environment, and it's incredibly dynamic. Basically, among other things, there's state-of-the-art studio galleries and showcase spaces for student demonstrations of learning. There's a dining area that's as much about well-being as it is about the particular food being served. And it's really, I think of as a model for what it means to design the physical environment to foster student flourishing. So, Brian, welcome to Evolution Stories. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Brian, what how did you get into this? Like what drew you to education in the first place?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

And so they put me as a teacher aid for my favorite US history teacher. Wow. And from that moment, I was kind of hooked. Sadly, uh when I got to the university, the the freshman university counselor uh talked me out of education, put me into a business track. And uh after my first accounting class, I'm like, not gonna do this for a career. So, but I did I graduated in public relations and then worked a few years uh in the field of public relations. And every day driving by that school, I had that feeling inside me, and I decided to go back and uh and become a teacher.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

That's super interesting. The the public relations angle. I don't know if I've ever met anybody in education who started there with their career, but I I have to believe that that's been pretty useful for you as a school leader.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Incredibly helpful. And actually, uh my major work was in uh uh development and university advancement. So uh that has really come in handy as a head of school.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Yeah, say say more about that. Like uh what were you doing with university advancement stuff, and then how have you translated that into your your head of school work?

SPEAKER_00 3:19

So um I mainly worked on fundraising projects, uh annual giving projects, uh special events that were uh fundraisers and um working with alumni uh and their donations. And so um that translates directly to the the things that we're doing as a private school, you know, managing an endowment, trying to look at ways to um, you know, increase revenue, not through tuition, uh, which is more and more important, particularly with these capital projects. The the arts and dining, the arts innovation and dining center is just the uh the beginning for us in terms of our our redevelopment of Carol Morgan School. So um very, very important those skills.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yeah. I would love to hear um what what's a like an insight or an idea from the discipline of public relations that would influence the way that you think about fundraising, not so much like the technique of fundraising, but like what's a conceptually something about public relations that shapes how you think about that work?

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Uh it boils down to telling your story. Every school has a story. And um fortunately, our our story is a really rich and unique uh story. Um, and it schools often don't tell their story, and um that's that's really probably the the main thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Yeah, I I know that it took me forever to learn that lesson when I was I was ahead of school that um either you're shaping the narrative or you're being shaped by the narrative. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Yeah, you always want to be the one that's telling your story, right? And it's hard, it's hard today because there's a lot of people are afraid to uh to go out on a limb and and tell the story for for whatever reason, for critique or um uh social media today is often harsh on people, but I think you um you have to do it and and try and really promote those positive things that you're doing, um, and that generates interest.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Yeah. What what was the the story frame or the narrative through line around this new building that you all put up?

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Well, it's really that um it's kind of a mindset shift um for the school, you know. And uh we uh we for many years, I mean historically I would say, um kind of had a really strong legacy, right? And I think the school was very, very comfortable um in and with that legacy from from 90 years, 93 years we've been around and a lot of pride in the reputation and legacy, but um, in a lot of ways resting on that success of the past. And so um it it came to a point where I where I saw it as uh we can't rely on history anymore in order to maintain that legacy. We have to continue to change. The world is so different, it's changing fast. Um, so are our students' needs, right? Um they the students are are curious, they they crave environments where they can explore, ask questions. It's truly inquiry, uh inquiry-based learning at its at its best. And I think that if we didn't start to adapt um and have built purpose-built spaces for for this inquiry-driven approach, um, I think we'd start to risk losing losing our relevance, maybe. And and um I would I would never want us to uh to tarnish that um that really strong legacy that we have.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

So I'm thinking, I'm I'm wondering whether you had kind of like three choices here in terms of storytelling around this new building. Uh-huh. I could imagine one choice would be like we've been successful for 90 plus years and we're continuing that success. Or we've been successful for 93 years and we need to build upon that in new ways. Or a third story frame could have been like, what we were doing before doesn't work anymore, and we need to change. Like they're kind of kind of like on a continuum in some sense, but there are three very different story frames. And I'm I'm curious if how did you approach the challenge there?

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Yeah, somewhere between version two and version three of what you of what you just said. I mean, I think I have a lot of respect for uh for the leaders of this school that that I've led in the past, and I think um this school has a lot to be proud for uh in its history. Um, and my approach has always been to be respectful of that because it got us to where we are today. Um, but I like to um I always tell a story to the the people that uh that push back on change, right? And um, so I'll often say to them, hey, uh particularly alumni that that come in and say, I want it to be like it was when I was there this year. And I remember saying to uh a group of people that were questioning some of this this change, which is really positive, you know, uh this inquiry-based thinking. People don't always understand why it's different than the traditional paradigm. But I used to I said to this person and this group of people, I said, Hey, you remember uh back when you were at Carol Morgan, you you had a Blackberry, didn't you? And they said, Oh yeah, of course I had a Blackberry when it came out. That was the coolest thing ever. And I said, Do you have a Blackberry now? Do you? No, why? Because they didn't change, they didn't innovate. And uh now you have the iPhone, that's a company that has always innovated and always changed, right? And if you don't change, you can become irrelevant pretty quickly. And um people they looked at me and was like, that is a really good analogy, right? And I heard that from somebody else, I'm stealing it from somebody. I don't remember who, but um that you know it's true. And if you if you're not changing, you can quickly become irrelevant. And but what's sad about education today, that blackberry model, that that analogy, that's out there, right? And you can find it if if you if that's what you want. Um, but um that we we don't want that here.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

You know what I love about this anecdote is um, well, first of all, it's it's sort of a variation on storytelling because you you are telling the the blackberry story, the blackberry versus apple story. Yeah, but what I love even more about it is um when it when it comes to leading change, like there's just there's often so much complexity, you know, there could just be like people have to pay attention to so many things, there's so much going on. In in this particular instance, it might be like inquiry-based learning is a is a new concept, so there's more complexity there. And the the BlackBerry story as a kind of an analogy cuts through all of that instantly. And it's like a cognitive shortcut. And so you take things that could be overwhelming by volume, by sheer quantity, or by complexity, and you make it super simple and super clear. And I that that strikes me as like an incredibly important skill and technique if you want to lead people from where they are to where you want them to go.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Oh, yeah, and it's it's critical. I mean, getting people on board uh is it's critical. And you know, those relationships, that's the that's the number one thing when you're trying to make a change like this in a school.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yeah. Had had you encountered people for whom that analogy did not land and you had to kind of take other other tacks.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

You know, not really. I think it's that's so uh that's a powerful analogy. And I don't think anybody's gonna disagree with that. You know, you don't see anybody walking around with blackberries anymore. Maybe, maybe, maybe they have them. I don't know, they're not working. That's right. Um, but uh yeah, that analogy has been pretty powerful. And yeah, you know, I think maybe people are tired of me using it, but it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

So one of the other things that strikes me about this building, and and uh it's a it's a hypothesis I have, and I'm curious to hear if I've if I'm if I'm correct, is that you have this vision, you have a story to support the vision, and then you've got to bring it to life in the literal concrete expression of the building itself.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

But again, for some people, inquiry-based learning and and even just the idea of like student flourishing can sound very kind of like hand wavy, very abstract. And I noticed that this building is designed to make the learning and the flourishing visible. Like you have literally have demonstration spaces in in this building. Yeah, yeah. And and I'm I was wondering, was that part of like in your own head, like the storytelling will continue literally through the space in the building itself?

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Correct. And I and just this this week we had uh our our first alumni event in the building, inviting the alumni back to uh to see what it's like. And the the look on that was about probably about 50 people that came to the event, and uh the look on these people's faces when they were walking in these spaces, and wow, I mean you you just see it there. Um particularly in the art spaces, right? And um, and and the the the easels are out, the the the tools are out, the brushes. It's maybe even a little bit messy, right? But that's the way it's supposed to look. Um and then having a totally separate space for the kids to do their their their work, you know, there's a there's a space for a desk. So that they're not um, it's always moving, right? There's it's not static. Um and it just really comes through when you walk through the building. And the same can be said on the on the innovation floor. I mean, the we we used to have a robotics field within a classroom, and it was a tight, tight fit. The kids couldn't really do anything with that field there. And so now this huge space where the team can uh actually practice on their robotics field, uh, build stuff. The the 3D printers are there, it opened up our makerspace uh to be to be used more collectively. So a lot of positives with that uh that purpose-built building. And and the building, the building itself actually, uh my predecessor who uh who was a long time head of school and then came in for an interim year, really the the concept of the the cafeteria started there. And what was great is that through that process, um when I came in, we were able to develop how it how it actually looked in in practice and development. And so what started as one idea, we were able to evolve over time to meet those needs that we knew that we were uh we were gonna have. Like this idea of uh inquiry-based learning throughout the school, the building is just one small piece of that, right? And it's and it serves as the example of what could be. Um, and so really powerful messaging and and people feel it. It's uh it's really quite uh impressive.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Um I was curious, is was the the inclusion of the dining room, the um the cafeteria, was that uh a constraint? Like you just didn't have room elsewhere on campus to do that, or was that intentional by design that you wanted to combine that space where kids are eating and socializing with learning?

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah, I think it was intentional. Um the the again, the original concept started with uh my predecessor, and they they wanted a better space for our kids to eat. And we so we actually built the cafeteria on the space where the old cafeteria was. And so anecdotally, the the what we had to do was we we had to take our library, which is it was a two-story space, we had to turn that into a provisional cafeteria. And so the cafeteria moved over to the library, we rebuilt this building. Um, and then when I came on board, it it wasn't built yet, it was it was down to the the foundation, and we had to move the cafeteria over. And then we started to tweak the designs, particularly on the second and third floor. But the idea was always there to have it as a um more of a dining commons and a dining center rather than a cafeteria. Yeah. And now that the cafeteria is there, we have this great opportunity to do the same thing that we did in this building into our library. So are we having a new library open in February, uh, which is gonna be rebranded as something else, not just library. Uh, it's really truly a media center, and um and but we're gonna come up with a little more creative name than that. Uh, but it's got the same concepts, uh, collaboration spaces everywhere, um, places where students can actually go, where it can be a hub for kids to hang out and learn. Um and we're very excited about that as well.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Yeah, one of the things I I was wondering about, again, in terms of the intentionality of the of the design, was uh whether this idea of student flourishing is uh a recognition that it's not just about the type of learning, inquiry-based learning, for example, collaborative learning, project-based learning, but also that learning is is like profoundly social and relational. And like the cafeteria is not just a place where you stick calories in your body, it's a place where you sit down with your friends and you socialize. And to have that in the same space where you're doing the learning feels very coherent to me. And it feels like this is an ecosystem. It's not like we're we're segmenting and compartmentalizing things. Uh, it sounds like maybe that's part of the part of the intention.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Uh definitely, definitely. And I think um also, you know, being being in Latin America is uh these the kids are inherently social, right? And this is uh this is a great part. I mean, we're many years in Colombia and here, and you can't underestimate that power of the socializing. And and here we're we really do embrace it. And the teachers um being able to have those spaces too, um, to uh to utilize. And uh it's it's it's been a powerful change for us. And that that's the direction we're heading. Um and it's uh this this change process has been um it's been it's been really wonderful. Uh seeing it in my third year now here, it it just feels like a different place. It's amazing. Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Let's shift focus um from a very clear success in a change project to an example where you were leading a change initiative and maybe it ultimately succeeded, but it was a struggle to get there, or maybe it didn't succeed and you learned a lesson the hard way. Like what's something from your career where it it didn't go quite as smoothly?

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Well, that's a great question. Um I you know, I I see failed changed as an opportunity. I mean, I think that that's um that's the way you have to have to look at it. I was in a for a few years I was in a large private school in the US. And um I think that uh you know it was uh a real hard experience for me because I was coming in new, it was a huge campus, uh like almost a college-like campus. There's nine nine buildings, but it was a school that had an impressive reputation and a long history, built in the late 1800s. Um fancy culinary program, vibrant music department, um, some innovation in there. Um but beneath the surface there was really some fundamental challenges, and it was related to teaching, learning, and assessments, and also support for students with uh with special needs. The curriculum was kind of all over the place, the standards and benchmarks, uh learning targets that that didn't exist, very, very, very traditional. Um, and so I think I I came in and I overestimated the readiness of uh the teaching staff to embrace the shift. And um not because they weren't capable, it's just that they they were gonna need more time uh in order to see this meaningful change that I wanted to make. And again, kids were starving for voice and agency, and I and I knew that's what we needed to do. Uh, but it hit me it hit me pretty quick that uh that I was gonna have to take a different approach. Um it it th those gaps uh were would need to be filled before the the teacher's gonna be ready to make that change.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

I I'm imagining that was probably a frustrating realization. Like you you were ready to go, you wanted to see the change, you probably had a clear picture in your head of the change, but the readiness, that that's the word that's really jumping out at me from what you said. Like the readiness wasn't there, and I I would imagine that was frustrating.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Yeah, I mean it went sideways pretty quick, and um my my enthusiasm quickly shifted to panic. Um, but but you know, in the end, uh it was we were able to come back and and fill in fill in the holes, and and I'm still in contact with people there today, and that school is really thriving now. And and ultimately um it's about relationships. And I think as I was too new to fully grasp the the dynamic that was uh that was at the school, and it kind of stifled the process before we could even get it, get it started. Those those relationships have to be in place. Collaboration suffers if it's not, and that's that's clearly the key, right? Um, but uh yeah, the the groundwork for change was was hampered by that. I think um in hindsight, it maybe that sounds obvious, you have to build build relationships, right? But it's more than just fostering connections. Um, that's relatively easy to do. It's really about creating a culture of collective efficacy. That's that's the hard part.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Say that's a really interesting phrase. Say more about that.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Well, I mean, if um if if if you cannot have a group of people that believe that their work together will assure that kids don't fail, then um you're gonna have a problem, right? And I think that's what we needed to do. We needed to make sure that everybody on that campus understood the vision. It was not only collective vision, but that there was Collective efficacy that no one person on that campus is going to be the res be responsible for any child failing. And once you build that on a staff, that's when I think it you're ready for the change. And yeah, it's about relationships, but it goes beyond because it has to be a collective mindset.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

That's really powerful. I'm thinking uh of an analogy like the relationship building is maybe like the tilling of and the fertilizing of the soil. So like that has to be in place, but that's that by itself is not going to cause the flowers and the plants to spring to life and flourish. They that the soil has to be ready, but then the collective efficacy piece is really, really important. And I'm I'm I'm I'm kind of like picturing in my head that like you just can't rush that part of it, and you have to get to a point where a certain percentage of the faculty felt prepared, and then you had reached the critical mass point at which point you could say, now we're moving to collective efficacy as opposed to individual teachers being exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

And I and I think that's um that's essentially what what happened because it took a while. And it's like like I say here, I'm in I'm in year three, and I and this this is the year that I feel like we are we're we're really uh really achieving what we set out to do. And and it's gonna build, obviously. But you know, it's it's so much about um fostering open communication, yes, but it's it's share sharing of goals. Uh collaboration, encouraging collaboration, it's it's critical. Um recognizing people's contributions because I think sometimes people come in and when you when you want uh to change things really quickly, you oftentimes forget about what people contribute and what they've contributed in the past. So having to recognize those contributions is is uh incredibly important in building efficacy. Uh of course, developing people's competencies. Um, you know, not everybody's on the same page. Um and something I learned from failure for sure is modeling resilience, um, which you know is is important for uh for people to see, especially for principals and ahead of school. Um empowering their decision making was important for us too. And all of that kind of helps uh build relationships and then you can cross that into collective advocacy.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Yeah. There's a lot there uh that I would love to double-click on, but the the thing that is most standing out is recognizing people's work.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

And the relationship between doing that recognition and the fostering of collective efficacy is really interesting because I have found that um sometimes people aren't even aware that they're doing something that is effective until someone points it out and says it to them. And that can be good for their own personal efficacy, but then doing that in a public setting could actually have a spillover effect to the other people watching that and observing that and listening to that and saying, Oh, well, I also do that, or I could do that, and so I can be efficacious in that way too. Um, and that's like such a it's such a simple but really powerful move as a as a leader of change.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Right, it is. And and and I mean, I think about some of the things we're we're doing now, and people get worried. Um, well, how are we gonna do that? And and so it's really exactly what you said. You you sit down and you you show them, look, what you're doing here is what we want. But what we want is to make that more consistent across the board. You you've got it, you already know how to do it, you're doing it. Now everybody's gonna do it. And they, oh, okay, so I can do this. Yes, yes, you can. And particularly for the more experienced teachers, and we have some experienced teachers here, and they haven't um they haven't done some of this work, particularly the the the collaboration with um the inquiry-based learning. Um, but they're able to get it because what they're doing in their classrooms, they're showing that they're capable. Um, but you have to verbalize it, you have to let them know that you see it.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Yeah. I I think I'm also wondering, Brian, I mean, you you described the situation uh at the school in in the US with with real clarity. And I'm wondering if you rewind the tape and you go back to that experience, like how long did it take you to kind of bring these thoughts together in a coherent way where you're where suddenly you're like, okay, now I understand why it's not working yet.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah, I mean, I I'm pretty I I figured it out uh pretty quick that that it that it wasn't gonna work. Um and and I we had to retool it. Um and I think that I look at it now as uh really I I should have started with the relationships more. I mean, I again I think it was the the relationship building was uh was a little superficial. Now, in in fairness, that was during COVID, so uh right right after COVID and actually right before right after COVID. But um yeah, I think that's that's my my thinking on it now. I have a very clear, but I I know what I would do different uh for sure. And I think for me, failure or not succeeding at something has um has always been a pretty powerful catalyst uh for my transformation as a leader. Um and again, I think I mentioned it, it's kind of where you discover your resilience, right? And I think um that that school in particular uh kind of fundamentally changed how I see myself as a leader and shifting my focus from this impossible image of perfection. The head of school has to be infallible, right? That's you know, it's really you've got to be more authentic than that. You have to, you know, show that you can be resilient and and that it's it's okay to fail, you know. Success isn't about being infallible, right? I think it's our job as leaders to navigate navigate challenges, but there's gonna be errors along the way, and that's okay, right? Um, I think experiencing failure kind of also compelled me a little bit to maybe confront some of my limitations and embrace vulnerability. And I think as a leader, um, and and I this is what I love about the people that I um really think are model leaders out there, it not only makes you more resilient, but it makes you a more relatable person and a more relatable leader. And um I think that's powerful too.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Yeah. Again, I I wish uh I wish I had learned those lessons much sooner than I did. I felt like I felt like I needed to be perfect when I was ahead of school for you know for far too long. And um nobody wants to work with somebody who's either actually perfect or thinks they they should be worse, they think they're perfect. Yeah, right, yeah, exactly. And I I remember really this was this was like a the I the fact that I can remember this so clearly tells you something. I I was in my at the end of my first year or second year, maybe as a head of school for the first time, and I got 360 feedback. And I can tell you only one thing from this, I don't know, it was like a 300-page, you know, summary document. And the one thing that I I remember somebody said was like Christian doesn't always need to be the one with the answer.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

And it and and the person who wrote it didn't say the one with the right answer, just the one with the answer. And and the light bulb for me was like, oh, not only am I not always necessarily correct, but I'm like cutting off the oxygen in the room because I'm trying to be the one who's right all the time. And you know, it still took me a long time to sort of internalize and develop muscle memory around not doing that, but at least I had that epiphany that like nobody wants you to be perfect, they don't want to work with someone who's perfect.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Yeah. And I I I think back to my first principalship and I some of the things some of the decisions I made I I I think back in horror now. Um, but you know, you learn and and uh and you change, right? And I it's also as as you know well, uh it's about who you uh who you surround yourself with too. I mean, hiring smart people and people that uh have that shared vision and people that are also comfortable pushing back, uh it's critical. Um and so it's always about teams, those allies that you uh that you build in uh in your leadership team and in your community.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Yeah, a hundred percent. Oh my gosh, we could spend a whole another hour just talking about about that that particular topic of of hiring the right people and building a team. And um I think Brian, the the thing I want to end with is to come back to maybe maybe it's your your early training in PR and how you've you've leveraged that over your career, or maybe it maybe it's something else. But um what would you say are one or two things that someone who wants to lead change can lean into and produce outsized leverage and results because like these one or two things are just really, really powerful. So again, I'm thinking of the background in PR because storytelling is like to me, that's like one of the most important levers that a leader has for change. But you might have other other thoughts about like what are those one or two things that the audience should keep in mind if they really want to catalyze change.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

You know, I think um I think it number one, it's gonna be belief in your in your people um and and belief in your team. Um and I I I really believe that even your weakest link has has something to offer, right? And I think you have to have belief in your be people first, right? Because that goes back to what I was saying about cultivating change and and building that collective efficacy. Um and I also think um it it really truly is is about relationships, right? Um and um I think ahead of school uh our principal, any really any person that's in a leadership position, um you have to be you have to be somebody that's relatable and you you have to be able to communicate um and you have to be visible. Uh and I and I I mean that I always tell people I have a closed door policy. I close my door and I and I get out of my office, right? But I I mean I wish I wish it wasn't that as many meetings that I'm in, and I sometimes I sometimes if I go a day where I I haven't left the office, uh I I quickly run out to see people because it's uh it's critical. I mean, my favorite thing and my absolute favorite thing, and it's my office hours is in the parking lot on the in the in the morning. Every day talk to teachers, talk to principals, talk to parents, talk to kids. Um, and I get a lot of business done out there. But um that's also uh a way to build relationships. And so for me, uh that part has been been important. And I think a lot of young administrators uh get overwhelmed and they they're in their office working away at stuff and and forget that they gotta be they gotta be in people's classrooms, they gotta talk to the parents, they gotta talk to the kids on the playground, um, in the lunch line, all of that. So I think those would be the two big things for me. Um, because everything else is you know, you you you you you learn along the way, and all the new ideas were coming, like the innovation, uh, that's gonna be out there. You can learn that. Um, but the relationships, uh, that part is just critical. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Brian, this was an incredibly rich conversation. So many, so many very practical gems that you've shared about how to lead change. Uh, so thank you for sharing your wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Well, I appreciate you inviting me. I I mean I I talk a lot, I apologize, but uh, not at all. Um but I love talking about this stuff, and um, it's you know, it's what we do, it's our passion. And um, you know, we are responsible for uh getting these kids ready for an unknown future. And um so these are important conversations. I thank you.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

No, thank you. And and I would add, and and it's part of why I admire you as a leader, uh, everything you were saying at the end is we're not just preparing the kids, but when we're when we're ahead of school, like we're as responsible for the adults, in some ways, kind of more responsible for the adults, because we're not in the classroom, right? Um and and that's like that's a huge responsibility, and it's so obvious that you care as much about the adults as you do about the kids, and and that's why the school succeeds, is because you you need both of those things. Um, and that is the job as well, is to care for the adults.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

It is absolutely the uh, you know, the kids are the are the product and they're important, but the adults are the ones on the ground every day making it happen.