Beyond the Reformer

How Much Anatomy Do Pilates Teachers Actually Need to Know With Tracy Ward

• Nic Lenny

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0:00 | 53:56

"I really worry that we will lose the essence of what Pilates actually is. How much are we going to dilute it?"

In this episode, Nic is joined by Tracy Ward - physiotherapist, Pilates teacher, and author of The Science of Pilates, published by DK. Tracy sits at the unique intersection of clinical practice and Pilates, bringing over 15 years of experience teaching, treating patients, and training new teachers through APPI.

They explore what it really takes to understand anatomy as a Pilates teacher - not to the depth of a medical degree, but in a way that genuinely improves your cueing, your touch, and your ability to help clients feel the work in the right places. Tracy shares why she wrote The Science of Pilates and the gap she kept seeing in teacher training that inspired it.

They get honest about the state of the industry right now - the social media-driven push toward dynamic, athletic content and what that means for the integrity of the practice. Both Nic and Tracy share their concern that the essence of Pilates is being diluted, and why returning to the foundations matters more than ever.

They also dig into the reality of being a new teacher - the confidence challenges, finding your own voice, managing mixed-ability classes, and why the basics taught really well will always outperform a fancy class plan that doesn't land.

Timestamps

01:56 Why anatomy overwhelms Pilates teachers 

03:21 Tracy's journey into Pilates and physiotherapy 

09:52 How The Science of Pilates came about 

12:03 How the book was created and illustrated 

17:15 How to bring anatomy to life beyond the textbook 

19:59 Finding your voice as a new teacher 

27:10 Managing mixed ability classes

 29:54 Language, modifications and empowering clients 

37:11 Social media and what it's doing to Pilates 

42:08 Common misconceptions about the body 

43:49 The myth of perfect posture 

44:37 Should we be blending Pilates with other modalities? 

47:38 Pain, movement and what clients misunderstand


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SPEAKER_00

Coming up on this week's episode of Beyond the Reformer. Today I'm joined by Tracy Ward. So learn anatomy is a degree in itself.

SPEAKER_01

They could maybe teach the exercises beautifully, but they maybe didn't understand the principles behind it. I really worry that we will lose the essence of what actually is Pilates. How much are we going to dilute it? So I actually quit after that first class. There's space for everyone. Without a doubt, everyone should be doing Pilates.

SPEAKER_00

Today's episode is one I think so many teachers are going to connect with because we're diving into something that comes up again and again in Pilates education: anatomy. We all know it matters, but for many teachers, it can also feel intimidating, overwhelming, or disconnected from how we actually teach in the studio is a question I get asked all the time. So in this conversation, Tracy and I explore what teachers really need to understand about the body, how anatomy can improve your cueing, your communication, and what actually makes someone a great Pilates teacher beyond simply knowing the exercises. Before we get into today's conversation, I've just got a quick favor to ask. I ask every week. But if you're enjoying these episodes, it would mean the world if you could take a moment to like, follow, or subscribe. Wherever you're listening or watching, you can also watch us. It genuinely helps the podcast to grow and it allows me to keep bringing you these conversations. Also, if you can share it with a friend, all the better. If you can share it onto your stories, that's so great. These things are all helping us build this community together. Okay, let's get into today's conversation. Tracy, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. What an honor to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. Well, I was just saying, behind me is your book. Your book has been there not just because you're on the show with me, but because I have read your book, the book in our teacher training reading list. It's a great book. And I thought we would start there around the anatomy of Pilates. Because, you know, we all know as Pilates teachers, anatomy matters. We got asked to do, you know, some base level before we begin, usually. And then there's anatomy within the courses. But at the same time, what I see all the time is people feeling really overwhelmed by the anatomy for Pilates. Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_01

I think, I mean, yes, it's a very good point. And I see it all the time when I'm teaching students, and even like through social media now, I have students reaching out to me saying either they've signed up to teacher training and they're completely overwhelmed, or they've qualified and they still don't understand the anatomy. And how can they get better with it? So I think it's just it is such a large topic to take in. Like when I was at university, my first degree was biomedical science, and we did anatomy for an entire year, like eight hours a day, and we had anatomy labs, we had so much studying to do. And then I think we're trying to teach people to be Platyste, learn the exercises, learn how to teach, and we're teaching them anatomy. And it's also, I suppose, how well that's taught on courses, because at the end of the day, people are coming to be Plate's teachers, they're not coming to learn the breadth of anatomy, perhaps, or the course is not delivering that, or the students are not, you know, taking that on. So I think it's just such a huge topic. But on a course, it's, you know, it's almost like a module, or it's a small part of it.

SPEAKER_00

And I think you make a good point. Like I sometimes wonder, do those people who are saying they're worried they want to learn more, is it that they think they're supposed to know more than they are? Because I think that's true, because it's interesting hearing your story, and we'll talk more about your story. But yeah, like to learn anatomy is a degree in itself. So, how much do you think we need to know to be able to do our jobs well?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, so I think that's where the idea for the book came from, in that students would be so overwhelmed. They're learning their origins, their insertions, they're learning every single muscle and not just the muscles, they're learning all the nerve supplies and the blood supplies. And it comes a point where I think anatomy is so important as a Pilates teacher and you should absolutely have it. But do they really need to know it to the depths of what the exams are asking for them, which, as you say, is almost on like a degree level? So that's where I had the idea for the book is that really they need to know what muscles are being worked in the exercises. They need to know if somebody has an injury and they say, you know, I've hurt my rotator cuff, for example. I think it's important they know what that is so they can modify the exercises safely for them to give them the best experience. But I don't necessarily think they need to know it as in-depth as an anatomy textbook.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I think that's a really good point. And you sit between the worlds of Pilates and physiotherapy. Tell me a little bit about your story and how Pilates came into your life and why you were drawn to that.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, I was doing my undergrad in biomedical science to begin with, and it was a really demanding course. It was, you know, eight hours a day on campus, and I would go to the gym at lunch times to break up studying. And I got to a stage where, you know, I was studying so intensely, I was going to the gym quite intensely to kind of break things up. And I think I just needed something a little bit different, a little bit calmer that would take me away from that. Because even in the gym, I'd be with my classmates, you'd be chatting or I'd be listening to music. And I think I never got that complete mind break from what I was doing. So then the university um advertised that they had plate classes, and it was on a lunchtime that I wasn't going to the gym, and I thought, you know what? I'll go and try this class and see what it's like. And I can't quite describe what happened in that, but it was just this space that I was looking for. You didn't have your phone on you, you didn't have people around you speaking to you. I couldn't think about anything else because I was so focused on the movement, the breath, what I was doing, where I was connecting, what was going on. And the feeling afterwards was just exactly what I was needing. It was that clear-headed space, and my body just felt amazing from it. I used to get really sore shoulders from studying all the time, and I would constantly have knots in my shoulders and have sore pains, even though I did lots of sport and activity, and I felt like I couldn't get rid of that. But then when I started going to Pilates, I could see that my posture changed, the aches and pains went away, I stopped getting injured. I used to competitive ice skater as well, but my injuries reduced. And I just felt that stress relief from it as well.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's so interesting, isn't it? Like I was just chatting to someone this morning actually about, you know, the growth of Pilates and the innovation that's coming in and the sort of desire to like make it more than it is. And yeah, I think those of us who found it, it was it did slow us down. And I think that's quite interesting, where it feels like a lot of the innovation is trying to speed us up again. And that was my experience too. Also had a lot of neck and shoulder pain. Also found it really helped me with my work. So that's really interesting that that was your experience too. So what took you from that? You've obviously, you know, you're you're there, you're doing your undergraduate, you've, you know, you've discovered Pilates. What kind of happened next?

SPEAKER_01

So I continued to go to classes, and then the plan was always to go and do my physiotherapy master's degree afterwards. And it was very soon into that that I realized how important Pilates could be to my patients. So on all my placements and when I was learning about physiotherapy, and I thought, you know, if we just gave them some of these exercises, I actually think that would help them. And it worked even when I was on, you know, outpatients, especially, and which is what I work in now, but in neurology, in cardiovascular, in every area, I was like, you know, if we do some breath work, this will slow them down, it'll help their breathing, it'll calm them down, it'll help those injuries. So it was literally the month after I graduated from physiotherapy, I signed up to do my Pilates teacher training because I just knew that any job I went into, this was just an extra skill that I needed that you don't get taught at university either. So it was really valuable to my clinical practice.

SPEAKER_00

I've had some interesting chats actually with physiotherapists who blend Pilates in, and it's a really interesting conversation around how the two worlds you'd expect that the physiotherapy world really understands what we're doing, but often it's not the case. And so, you know, physiotherapists are often referring in to us. We often have to send people to physiotherapists. It must be interesting for you to kind of sit in this intersection between the two and to see how this work can help and how maybe it's short-sighted if we're not bringing it into their rehab.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. I can see it from both sides that I've got, you know, physiotherapy colleagues that are not Pilates trained and the way that they treat patients is different to how I would treat them. And then likewise Pilates teachers who are referring into physio for what they need. And I just love the crossover of it because pretty much every day I will be treating a patient as a physiotherapist, but I will be using Pilates. And I just don't know what I would have done without that as part of my practice now, because it's it's a huge part of how I treat people.

SPEAKER_00

And what sort of drew you into physiotherapy in the first place?

SPEAKER_01

So I was always really into sports from a very young age, and I was getting injured all the time. I was forever at AE, I was forever in bandages, casts, just different injuries. I think being young and not having the balance, the muscle mass, and the sports that I did, I did gymnastics and then I went into ice skating, and that's where I did most of my sports. And I think it was just seeing how, you know, the doctors and nurses help you, but the physios really help you get back to what you want to do. And I just seen it as a really positive sort of health profession that you you're not necessarily treating or for what I do anyway, in outpatients, you're not treating lots of sick people. You're actually helping people get back to whatever sport or activity they want to do, or whether it's just walking and feeling good in life. And I really just wanted to know how to do that. I was amazed that somebody could look at a muscle or a bone or an arm or a leg and they could make it better. And I just really loved it. And it blended my love for exercise as well, because that's hugely what we do is we treat people with the right exercise and the right loading.

SPEAKER_00

And so, what does your work, you know, what did your work look like straight away? You then went into the physiotherapy world and brought the Pilates with it, or were you teaching classes? Like explain to me what that mix looked like for you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I went into physiotherapy, and then I from the very beginning set up, I think I did one class a week, like one evening, and instantly it was fully booked. So I set up another class and it got fully booked, because as you know, everybody wants to do Pilates, and this was over 15 years ago, and even back then it was so popular. So I was using it in clinic as a physio, but I was then using it in the community using my classes, and the classes just kept growing, and so I would be using it to treat patients, but be using it to have that positive, healthy lifestyle for people as well.

SPEAKER_00

And then how did the book come about? You know, did you have this idea that you wanted to communicate movement and anatomy in a more accessible way?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I actually loved writing essays at uni, which makes me probably sound a bit strange. I think it was just so ingrained in me that for the type of degrees I did, we did so much writing, and I was actually quite good at it. So I started a blog on my website because I was running my classes, and I was just finding that I was so used to doing this at uni that I had free time to fill. So I started writing a blog, and then I started writing for actual publications, and I got a role as a sports medicine writer, which blended physiotherapy, Pilates, sort of sports injury knowledge, and I would write for them on a monthly basis, and I loved it because it meant I got to read all the research and I got to convey it into basic terms for people to understand and they can apply it to what they did. So I was doing this as like a side job, you could say, just alongside everything else I was doing. And I continued that, and then I worked for APPI as a course presenter. So I was working on their teacher training courses and teaching new students how to become Pilates teachers. And I just felt the same things were coming up every time, whether it was when I was teaching on the courses, whether it was people contacting me on social media or just people in general asking questions, that even people that were qualifying as Pilates teachers didn't fully have the depth of the understanding of the method. They could maybe teach the exercises beautifully, but they maybe didn't understand the principles behind it fully, or they didn't understand where it came from, like the classical sort of characteristics and how that's been modified over the years. And I felt that was really important to know where it's come from, where it is now. It's all still Pilates, but there is different variations of it. And then all the research that I was using as a physio for treating injuries, treating people, I just wanted everyone to know how good it was, and that it's not just because I said it was good or my patient in clinic got better. There's genuine research to back it all up. And I just felt there was a huge gap in the market for that. And that's where science of Pilates came from.

SPEAKER_00

And it's beautiful. I mean, it goes through the exercises and it is really interesting. Like the illustrations are gorgeous, and it's a very visual way of learning and explaining what this movement. It must have been interesting for you to think about like how do I communicate this in a book?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, it was quite the process to do. So I initially came up with the idea and wrote the book proposal and sent it off, really not expecting to hear anything back. I just thought, at least I've tried and I've put it out there. And then when DK, the publishers got in touch and said that they loved the idea and they wanted to go ahead with it, they then came back to me with a, you know, this is the sort of size that we think this book should be. Here's some word counts and layouts on pages. Can you put your content onto this and design it and come up with it? And then for the illustrations, so I obviously wanted each picture to be as it is, the main exercises with all the anatomy. And I had to take pictures of me doing it, send it to the illustrator, and then I had to label on it, you know, these are all the muscles, this is what's going on. So it made my head really get to grips with it because I had to put it all down on paper. And then the illustrator, who was fantastic, but they would create it, they would come back to me and I'd be like, oh, that's not quite right. This muscle's doing this. And we tweaked it back and forth. And then that's how we ended up with our illustrations.

SPEAKER_00

And I was just sharing it to someone today, actually, because I was saying I was having a chat with you, and I was explaining that it's so nice to sort of see this is a muscle contracting under tension or this is a muscle that's lengthening. And I'm guessing that that was quite a deliberate idea because in Pilates, our cuing is often leaning into, like if you understand your anatomy, I truly believe your cueing is better. I don't think you need to personally, I don't think you need to cue muscles and engagement, but I think you need to understand what's happening so that you can then come up with some imagery or some anatomy imagery. Was that kind of deliberate? Because I guess then it's like you can take this and your words can match what's actually happening.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. So I wanted it to be a text where you had everything in one place for even just the Pilates enthusiast or somebody that wants to know more about it. But then the depth of the anatomy is exactly what you said for teachers, that if they're discussing, you know, if somebody's doing a one-leg stretch and they're lengthening that single leg stretch out, thinking, yes, we're not cuing those quadriceps are contracting, but at least they know that the muscles are contracting or the muscles are lengthening. And I just think it would add to the depth of the teachers when they're queuing their exercises.

SPEAKER_00

And I see this come up in my teacher trainings a lot, you know, it's often comes up with the imagery and the tactile cueing, especially, like for you to understand how to tactile cue. If you understand what is getting longer and your words are saying it, and it, you know, you're not saying, because sometimes I think what happens with queuing is someone's saying you're getting longer, but maybe they cue the wrong part of them that's getting longer, which then doesn't feel right to the client in their body. And then the tactile cues, you know, people get quite caught up, I think, on tactile cueing. And I truly believe if you, if if what you're touching matches what you're saying, which matches what the client is feeling, then that tactile cue is is very powerful and very supportive. But I think people can be very nervous of tactile cueing because I think they sort of, A, there's the touch element, but B, I think they're like, I'm not quite sure what's happening and what how what am I helping to enhance?

SPEAKER_01

And that's exactly it. I wanted Pilates teachers to feel just that extra depth of knowledge that when they are cueing, when they're teaching, they know what they're talking about. They're not just teaching an exercise that they've been shown. They really understand what that exercise is doing. So then if you have a client that says, you know, that's feeling really uncomfortable, is it because they've been over-contracting that muscle and the muscle is fatigued, or is it because they've stretched it beyond their limit and maybe you need to, you know, scale back with it? So you can then work with that client to find out what's a better option for them. Because at the end of the day, we want our clients to feel amazing after Pilates because we know how great it is. And the only way they're going to get that is if you've got the right cues, the right technique, and you know what you're doing with it.

SPEAKER_00

So, would you say then that really understanding anatomy is less about being able to name out every single muscle and insertion point, but more about understanding the patterns of the movement and what's getting longer. I guess also what's connecting, you know, the patterns through the body so that we can understand the systems that are working.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, exactly. So whilst I think you need the breadth of the muscles, I don't think it's really necessary to know exactly which part of the bone it attaches to and exactly which part it inserts into. As long as you've got an idea that the muscle runs, you know, from here to here, it's a group of muscles that work with this group of muscles and the opposite muscles, so the two that work, you know, in contrast to each other, I think that amount of knowledge is valuable and is probably enough for teachers to know with it. And as long as they know where the muscles are, and like you say, the systems, so the slings and how it all connects together and how it works, I think is so important.

SPEAKER_00

And I think one of the challenges is, Tracy, that people can read your book, and it's a it's genuinely a great book, but still feel like, I know, but I, you know, I need how do I apply it or how do I learn more about it? What what what advice do you give for those people? So those people who are like, I'm still feeling like, I don't know, maybe they want more of an experiential. Where does someone go? What does someone do to feel like they could understand this work more? Like, how could we bring it to life, you know, beyond the textbook in a way that students and new teachers can maybe explore a bit more with?

SPEAKER_01

So that probably I think comes down to experiencing really good teachers and going to different teachers and seeing how their cues come to life. And, you know, if they're experienced, they've been around this, they've learned different cues and different ways of teaching. So I think just having that depth of going to various different classes, teachers that are trained from different places and listening to how they're cueing with it to see how they bring it to life. And it's when I'm trying to teach, I don't cue by muscle, you know, I won't say it's your hamstrings or your quadriceps or that, but I will say to my clients, you know, that's the muscle on the back of your leg that is now working with those glutes, those bottom muscles, to try and help them understand because they will relate to that outside of class as well and where they're feeling the exercise is working. So I think getting to as many classes from different teachers as they can and listening to that cueing and trying it themselves as well. So if they've looked at some exercises, they can then think, right, when I'm talking about that in class today, I'm going to try and explain it in a certain way or see if the clients feel where it's working in the right place.

SPEAKER_00

And I think that leans into that clients respond to different types of cueing. Like some like quite technical cueing, other likes beautiful imagery. Like, how do you think we can support that balance and understand what is working for a client that we're working with?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So seeing how they respond to your cues. There's times where I've been teaching and you say something and everybody's either just looking at you like a deer in headlights, or they go off and do their own thing. I think, right, that didn't nail it. I need to say it in a different way. So I think again, that just comes from experience and like client mileage and looking and responding to your class in front of you. It's all very good having a great class planned out, that's a beautiful plan. The exercises are fantastic, they flow well together. But if when you're teaching it, people don't understand that, it's not going to be that class. Or if you've got people that can do bits of it, but they're struggling with the exercises, it's your skill of modifying it and breaking it down. And that comes to how you cue it as well.

SPEAKER_00

And I think sometimes that there is a feeling that as a new teacher, we're supposed to know it all. And that's what you're saying, actually. When you're going to watch these teachers and maybe you're really inspired by them, they might be doing this 10 years. And we've kind of made the mistakes along the way. And we've all been there, haven't we, Tracy? Where you teach and you're like, I'm saying all the words that I've learned and they cannot do it. Like they just cannot do it. And then I think that's when you have to think about okay, what is this movement about? And how could I come at it a different way? And to have a bit of a toolbox of cues. You know, to understand that there's not one way of learning. And visual cues, by the way, are good for some people. You know, some people you just have to demo it, other people you don't. Some people, you know, want to just feel it in their bodies. So I think you're absolutely right. It's to kind of understand that a big part of the learning comes from being the teacher.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I think that's it's so relevant to think of that with new teachers because it is so scary. And my very first class that I taught, I when I was at university, I worked in a gym and I then became the manager of that gym. So when I became a physio and became a Pilates teacher, that was obviously the first place I went to to think, right, I'll start a class there before I went in the community. And my very first class, it was people that I knew, it was my old clients. It should have been really easy and really supportive. And I went in with this huge expectation on my shoulders that this should be this most amazing Pilates class. And I mean, it went fine. I think they enjoyed it. But I actually phoned up the gym and said, I'm not coming back because I think I was so hard on myself that it didn't mimic somebody that had been teaching for 10, 15 years. And I I just completely was like, I can't do this. So I actually quit after that first class. And then I got over it very quickly, and then I set up my own classes and it obviously worked from there. But I think it's just so clear that, you know, that confidence in the very beginning.

SPEAKER_00

And I think it can be very difficult to go in and follow a good teacher, you know. So a good teacher maybe steps down from a role or steps down for some hours and you get the gig. And by the way, this also is the same for experienced teachers. You can't be that person, okay? And those clients might love that person, but I do think if you try and be them, you'll actually never do a very good job in your teaching because you've not been you. And sometimes it takes a bit of time as well, isn't it? There is a little bit of a time of a transition for clients to get used to maybe a slightly different way of doing things and cueing things as well, which is good for them because, like you said before, I actually think it's really important that clients go to more than one teacher. Like we should go to more than one teacher and be inspired. Like it's often quite good, isn't it? To people have their flavors of how they deliver this work. And that can be quite helpful for clients sometimes to kind of experience different things on their body. But I think there's many of us, Tracy, so thanks for sharing that, that have been there where we're like, oh my God, I I can't. This was not, this was not the most enjoyable experience. And sometimes when you do it on your own, it's like that you almost don't have any other expectation because they only know you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I'm so glad you said that for experienced teachers as well, because I think you feel like you're trying to follow in their footsteps. But like you say, it will never be as good because you're not them. And just because people love them, it doesn't mean they're not going to love you. You just have to find your personality, your way of cueing things, your way of sort of empowering the room and adjusting the room and respond off your clients as well, which I think is the biggest thing for me, is that I will teach to who's in front of me rather than, you know, don't think about what's on that paper. If people look like they're enjoying it, you know, give them more encouragement. And it's about finding your way of responding to the room.

SPEAKER_00

I think it's such a good point because I think we could we can all get caught up. Like there's some teachers at my studio that teach just, I mean, I'm quite a deep thinker of a teacher. Like, let's feel, let's notice, that's my style. Okay. And I've got other teachers that are a little bit maybe more dynamic. And it can feel if I get asked to cover last minute, it can feel a little bit, even for me as a studio owner, like I need to go in and sort of step in. That's what they expect. And I've learned and I've seen it with lots of teachers. Don't do that because I cannot be that teacher. If I was, I would be that teacher. I am, but I think I do a good job. But you know what? And I sort of go in and go, you know, tonight, guys, you're gonna get the Nick show. And it's not the Katie show, but that's what we're gonna get. And they're like, yeah, okay. And you know, they go with it. And it's the advice I actually give to teachers all the time when they're doing cover for us. It's like, please be you. It's good for you to maybe see what the clients have been doing and the kind of level they're at, you know, if you get the chance to go and observe a class or something. But don't try and emulate the teacher. And the same, just becoming the teacher, like, I think we're all sponges and we all pick up bits from different teachers that have inspired us and we loved, but you've got to make it your own and become your own version of a teacher.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's what I say to people as well, is I say, I know you've, you know, you've been going to whoever's class um recently, but this is how I teach things. And, you know, you're not going to be for everyone. You will have people that prefer that other teacher, and that's fine because they teach that way. And I know how I teach, and I know that there's people that love my method as well. And it's just, yeah, finding your people, adapting to who's there, but absolutely just being yourself with them. So, what do you think actually makes a really great Pilates teacher? So I think just what we've touched on there really is that someone who reads the room and responds to the room rather than just sticks to what they're trying to get through, that you take the time to care about that person in front of you. You notice who's struggling, you notice who's not in the right position or the right technique. You know, if they're finding it too difficult, you offer them those solutions so that they can feel good. You know, nobody wants a client that goes to class and they go home thinking, I couldn't do any of that, I was awful. You want them to think I went to that class and I feel great and I did great. And I think that's your job as a teacher, whatever the ability, whatever the, you know, condition of that person is to give them that experience. And you do that through tuning into what they're doing and how they're doing it and offering. It could just be that tiny little tweak they need. It could be they need to lower their leg or change their spring on the reformer, change the strap they're using, change their body position. It might be just that tiny tweaks they need. But yeah, being responsive, what you've got there.

SPEAKER_00

It's interesting because what you're saying is this kind of art of presence of being able to see what's going on in the room. And I think that does take some practice. Inevitably, I think in any class you teach, it is inevitably mixed level, even if it's officially a level. There's always somebody, if not more than one person. You know, clients say to me, Oh, Nick, I feel like, you know, there's all these things you modified. I say, you have no idea how many people in the room had their own version of this class. But Tracy, how do we get better at that? Because I think that can throw people out. You know, you get the person who's pregnant, you get the person who can't do flexion, maybe, you get the person who's saying, I can't wait bare on my wrist. And you're trying to like manage your class plan. So, how does one go about from they've planned a class, how do they teach the people in front of them?

SPEAKER_01

So I classes that I teach are generally mixed ability. So I do that a lot. And I start off with my kind of base exercise, the one that I want to teach. And then as I'm teaching that exercise, I try to keep it quite simple. I'll think in my head, if we're doing, for example, you know, we've got sort of abdominal curl type movements in it, and I might suggest, you know, if if your neck's bothering you with it, we can keep the head down. If we're in a double tabletop position, we could do a single tabletop. So I try to offer a modification for sort of head and neck and for leg load when we're doing it. And that generally serves most people in the room. And then I try to think of if we're doing an exercise, so say we're doing like an oblique curl or an oblique prep, for example, the people that don't want to move their neck, we could move their legs instead. So they're still getting those obliques to work, but they're taking the strain out of their neck for whatever reason they don't want to. So I try to have a base exercise, think about usually head and neck and limb load with it. And then I would then think about the other people we have in the room. So that should generally serve those with back or neck pains, which are our most common issues. Those that are pregnant, so then I have to think about should they be lying on their back in this position, is the load correct for them? Again, they can kind of come into potentially single load option or maybe a different position if they need it. The weight-bearing aspect, so if they're not comfortable on the wrists, I generally have a couple of go-to things. So they could come onto elbows, they could come into prone, depending on the exercise that you're working with. In my classes, I quite often offer sort of standing exercise as well, because I've got a lot of people that might have hip and knee replacements and things like that where they maybe can't kneel. So I tend to have a few sort of easy adaptations that we can have because you would generally cover most of your clients with those without overcomplicating it.

SPEAKER_00

And I think it is that, isn't it? It's it's to have them have a few of these up your sleeve and keep it simple. And hopefully, I always sort of encourage teachers if the client walks in and tells you something like make it central on a system. So next time they come in, you've already known and you could plan that in. Because there's nothing worse, is there, where you someone turns up and they're like, oh, just so you know. And you're like, okay, right, I have to figure that out now. But it's hard, isn't it, to kind of have your eyes on those people. I wanted to ask you about what is your thought around how we get our clients to take some ownership in their responsibility for what they do and don't do in class? Because sometimes I think teachers can get worried that, like, I have to mind everybody, and that that's a lot to look after if there's several of those people in your class.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So when I've taught like whatever exercise we're going to do, I would generally then stand up, scan the room, and you would look for the ones that are either not doing it correctly or they look like they're struggling, and they're the ones that I would go to first to help. The rest of the people, you know, if they're doing it fine, you can kind of guide over those to begin with. And I think whenever I'm teaching the exercises, I will give the cue that, you know, if you're feeling this in your back, do this. If you're feeling it here, I would like you to take this option instead. I never use the words beginner option, advanced option, or easier and harder options because I think everybody wants to do the harder option.

SPEAKER_00

Everybody wants to feel we are we are hard programmed to go harder, are we not, Tracy? Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. So I tend to use the option of I'll say it's maybe a lighter load or more support for your back. And that I think empowers them a little bit more to think, oh, I am feeling that in my back. Maybe I do need a bit more support. So I think language is really important as how we frame it. And then once everybody's maybe chosen their exercise, I will then give them almost like give them permission and say, you know, if that's not feeling good for you today, please take this alternative option. I'd rather you're doing it effectively than you're feeling it strained. And I think that tends to work when you use the more positive language. People do respond to that better.

SPEAKER_00

And I think it is, is it's using that language that is getting them to tune in and notice and make a choice for themselves. I this happened years ago and it wasn't with me, but it was a client who basically said, I was in this class and I got injured, you know. And you're like, okay, well, let's explain. And it was kneeling arms facing sides, so nothing particularly difficult on a yellow. And when we sort of chatted to them, they said, I was doing it, it felt uncomfortable, but you know, and I said, Well, why did you not stop? And they were like, Well, I didn't think I could. And it really made me think that actually as teachers, we also need to give them permission to stop. So it's it's that like, if this is feeling good, come along with me. If this is not feeling good, here's the adaptation. If this isn't feeling good, like let me know. Or, you know, sometimes I'll say, This should feel delicious in your body. If it doesn't, can you please let me know? Because my eyes can't be everywhere. And I think it is about the language is so important and the positive language, because you know, you're especially working with people who've got things going on in their body. They need to feel empowered, not disempowered, don't they, in the work that we do?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, like you say, it's giving them you can only give them so much. So you've told them to let you know. But I think then I remind them and I say, you know, like you say, if that doesn't feel delicious, you need to let me know. And then I will check in with people and say, does that feel good? Does that feel okay? Are we all feeling great? And just keep checking in with people and give them that permission to step back if they're not feeling that it's working for them.

SPEAKER_00

In the work that you're doing with kind of Pilates teachers out there, what are you seeing as challenges that teachers are having, whether that's during their teacher training or as new teachers or during their mentoring, what are the things that are coming up that they're finding hard?

SPEAKER_01

I think confidence is probably one of the big things. Like we've said, you know, starting to take over class lists or even setting up their classes in the first place, that whole business side of it. Whereas you're maybe taught how to be a good teacher, but you're not really taught how to make it transactional that you then have to accept money for this. You need to turn it into a business. And I think that's really hard for people to get going with. I know I really struggled with that in the early days as well. And you need to have that if this is going to be your career and you're going to make it work.

SPEAKER_00

Because even when you work for a studio, most people are self-employed in our country anyway. And so it's your business in my business. And it's about how do you get people to come back? And then if you decide to make this your actual business, it's the same thing, isn't it? And the ability to have confidence in not just delivering the class, but I think so much about the experience of a class is the welcome, the knowing their names, knowing what's going on with them, checking in with them, like that. Almost the, you know, there's a lot of talk at the moment around communities. Community is is is fine. Like you can put on community events, but I actually think the biggest part of community is the community in the class and the community of the relationship with the teacher and the community with your, you know, I'm still, I still remember my, you know, I'm still friends with my Pilates friend from like 17 years ago, who I met at Pilates before I was a teacher. And I think that's a big part of it, isn't it? That whole and that takes some confidence to be able to hold that space and then deliver the class, remember the class, and then be able to adapt it. Like it's a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I think that's, I would probably say the other that, or probably the second issue that I think people struggle with is being able to adapt it. They get so stuck on creating the perfect plan, which obviously is important to have a really good plan. But I think people get so stuck on making that plan super creative, super innovative week to week, but actually lose sight of if you just do the basics really well, know your clients, give them that modification so that they can feel that it's working for them. You don't need a huge fancy plan. You need to be able to modify it for them and let them feel it properly.

SPEAKER_00

I always say that when, especially someone new starts or they're covering. I'm like, people never really think anything of a really, you know, straightforward class taught well. Like all they'll remember is that was a decent class. They might say, oh, it's maybe not quite as challenging as this other teacher, whatever, but they won't say it's poor. They'll just say, you know, that was nice. And most people just like to move and move well. And actually, I think the fundamentals are the most interesting part of our work. But when people try and get creative too quickly, and maybe they don't, you know, they they don't set it up in the right way, it can get chaotic. And actually, for all the work they've put in trying to come up with these class plans, people think the class was taught poorly. And that's such a shame, actually. So it's yeah, it's interesting to hear you're experiencing that too.

SPEAKER_01

And I've seen that myself when I, if I do think, right, I'm going to do something completely different this week and I might spend much longer than normal planning out this class to make it, you know, really different and dynamic and exciting. And then when I get into the room, I'm not saying I don't deliver those classes, but there are my many occasions where I go to deliver it and I just think either the people in the room are not able for that, or it doesn't actually flow the way it should. And I end up maybe just taking it down a level or two or scaling it back because at the end of the day, you want a class done really well that they're going to enjoy rather than me trying to invent something that maybe they're not ready for as well.

SPEAKER_00

I think we've all been caught out with that, haven't we? We go on a course and we go in the first day, we're back at the studio, and we're like, right, I'm gonna deliver, and then you suddenly think, oh, it takes a bit of time to kind of get this in. And as you said, often are met with the clients you can't, you know, can't do it, or that you know, the energy just doesn't feel right for for what's going on. Do you see that there's a real challenge around, you know, the the creativity? And and a lot of this, I think, has been driven by the noise on social media about what Pilates is. And do you see that teachers are are kind of getting caught up and thinking that that's what they need to deliver?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think social media has, I mean, we know Pilates is in such an era at the moment, which is amazing, but I think it's drifting furthermore into it's this really dynamic, athletic, creative, advanced level exercises, because to be fair, they're what looks good on social media and it it looks more photogenic perhaps than the basic exercises do. But I think that gives a huge misinterpretation as to what the practice actually is, and it might put people off and people that could really benefit from it, they're seeing these things and thinking, well, I could never do that. And we hear the saying a lot: people say, Oh, I'm not flexible enough to do Pilates. And I think, but it's not about being flexible in any sense. It's about how you move your body and making your body feel good. So yeah, I feel that it has gone a long way down that road, which hopefully we can bring it back and just let people know that it's it's the principles that matter, the foundations that matter. And if you're at that level, then fantastic. Go ahead and try the more creative elements of it, but it's not what it's all about.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think we have to understand how the algorithms work. They work in every sector, whether it's politics or fitness or anything in between. They work on extreme content. That's what drives the algorithm. And I think it's, you know, those of us who've been around a long time doing this work, that's not representative of what's happening in studios. But I think there are now new teachers coming through who are then opening studios and opening them with that kind of idea that that's what we're going to teach people. And I worry a little bit because I think of, you know, one of the things I've been talking a bit about is I think we need some naming conventions because the person with the hip replacement or the L5S1 disc, if they go to that studio, that's not going to benefit them. Okay. But if they go to your studio, they work. Now, I'm not saying there's not a studio that that other work, but it becomes more of a fitness and it's just a very different ethos. I joke that the powerful fundamental moves that feel so deep in your body when you get them and they take so much concentration. I always joke, don't see this on Instagram. It looks like nothing. You know, nothing. And yet inside you're going, oh my God, like, how do I move my legs and keep my pelvis quiet? Like, how do I, I don't even know what I decided to do that. And I think I was reflecting, Tracy, that we, you know, when I did my training, and it sounds like you were sort of the same sort of time. I just have my manual, really. There wasn't Pilates Anytime had only recently started. YouTube wasn't as big as it is now. There was no videos on social yet. I'd spent thousands on my course, I'd spent thousands on hours to get me ready for my exam. And I thought, I've got all this stuff, right? I'm going to use it. And there was years where really I looked at that work inside out, back to front, you know, worked with clients, realized what I'm saying doesn't make sense to them. How do I say it differently? And what I see now is that people are coming out, they've done all that work, they've spent all that money, and then they're going, oh, well, I'm just going to kind of part that over there and look at this other stuff. I find that confusing. I feel very lucky in a way that I didn't really have a choice. I just had to kind of go, I'm going to trust what I spent a lot of money on to, you know, it's a bit like you with your physiotherapy. You don't come out of uni and go, well, I'll just go off piste and do something completely different. You're like, there's a reason I spent so many years learning this work.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think that's the same with my training, is that yeah, I only had my manuals. So that is how I taught. And I'm not saying I haven't changed how I've taught or added to it, which I think is great because we should always be learning. But I didn't have the same influence that, you know, you finished a course and you open Instagram and you're like, oh, I'm going to teach that today, even though I've no idea what it is. So yeah, I think it was nice that I had the same as you, just that your the actual content, the foundations of your course, and then you can add to it when you feel able to.

SPEAKER_00

And I think I am absolutely not stuck in it must be exactly as my manuals, but I think it's nice to explore the work you've learned before you start playing with it. Because then you play with it with a more of an understanding. You know, this is a practice, isn't it? And I think it's for us to understand we don't come out with our certificate actually great teachers yet. We're competent, we're safe, but suddenly we're out in the real world with real people, and that's a different skill again, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's what I was thinking going back to the book is that I thought people, they know the exercise, they maybe know how to teach it, what cues maybe to use, but do they know if somebody's got a back pain or if they've got an injury here, if they've got hip pain, perhaps they should cue it a bit differently or they should modify it. So that's why I wanted to put all that together so that people had that maybe extra resource while they're building up their experience as being a teacher.

SPEAKER_00

I wondered if you see any kind of common misunderstandings that Pilates teachers have about the body.

SPEAKER_01

So I think the flexibility one is a huge one that everybody or a lot of people seem to think you've got to be flexible to do Pilates. And I think people think Pilates is just your core. It's working, it's your abdominals, it's that core muscles, which, yes, that is the foundation and it's where we work from, but it is a full-body workout. It's working everything from your head to your toe. And I think that's really misunderstood. Even now, I think people don't necessarily get the grasps of that, that we can treat necks with it, we can treat our posture with it, our shoulders with it. It's not just about my core.

SPEAKER_00

Well, the core is an interesting one. Can we talk about the core a little bit? Because you know, I I think it's interesting how Pilates got associated with the core. When I'm doing in my lectures, we're doing like our class programming. Like there's so many movements that are about the spine. I it's like for me, Pilates is such a big part of the spine. Of course, the core is part of it. But of course, there's become this obsession, has there not with the core is like the root of all solutions? Like my core is weak, therefore I am like this. And as you said, we need to be looking more holistically at the whole body. Would you agree?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. I think the core is a huge part of it. But it's also, like you say, it's how your spine moves, how that then connects to the upper body, the lower body, how your pelvis moves with that, how you breathe with that. Because if the breathing mechanics are not correct, we hold more tension, muscles become tighter, we adapt our posture to it. So it is full-body holistic approach that we need to be thinking about.

SPEAKER_00

What kind of myths do you think about there, maybe around posture, that what this perfect posture should look like?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I don't think there is a thing as perfect posture either, is there, in that we think of posture as being this one static position that we should all be sitting in or standing in and it's ideal, but bodies are made to move, they're not designed to stay still with it. So I think your posture is this ever-changing stance that you should be looking at. So whilst we can say that, you know, slouching over your desk is not ideal posture or holding yourself a certain way is not ideal, if you're only doing that short term, it's not going to do you any harm. It's what you're doing long term. And are you putting things in place like doing Pilates, doing strength training, conditioning your body to keep everything strong and supportive, which I think is really the bigger picture.

SPEAKER_00

You mentioned strength training. Like I feel like because Pilates is in this era that we're having at the moment, there's a lot of noise out there on social where people are saying, you know, Pilates isn't enough. It's almost like Pilates has to go up against everything else. And so then you see these modalities coming through where it's like, let's put strength into Pilates or let's put cardio into Pilates. What's your thought on that? Like, I worry that then the Pilates bit of what, you know, the bit that slowed you down, that gave you that space when you were studying, like, that wouldn't have done it for me in this way that we're seeing now. What's your thought? Like, you know, because you're right, we need these different modalities for health. So can we blend them together successfully in a class?

SPEAKER_01

I feel I would worry that we're gonna lose the depth of Pilates and what it's actually all about if we do start blending them too much, because Pilates is amazing on its own. It does what it needs to do on its own. It works our body, it's it strengthens, it mobilizes, it gives us that breath work. And I think if you overcomplicate it and add too much to it, I really worry that we will lose the essence of what actually is Pilates, how much are we going to dilute it? And then the next teacher and then the next generation. Whereas I still I do think we have a point that we should all be doing some strength training, we should all be doing some cardio. Do we need to do all that in one workout? Well, I appreciate people are time short these days. We've got busy lives that maybe you do want it all in one session, but I then don't think you'll get the full benefit of it because your heart rate's not going to get to what it needs to for those cardiovascular benefits. The muscular load is not going to get to the level we need to get hypertrophy and get strength changes. So are we then just creating something that's not actually giving us the full benefits that we actually want?

SPEAKER_00

Well, it becomes it, it has the risk of in in an attempt to make it an all singing or dancing, it kind of becomes neither of the three in the three examples that we gave. Um you mentioned about like posture, but also I think I think people can see this idea of like perfect alignment, which would you also agree doesn't necessarily exist?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, mostly to an extent. I think that our bodies are dynamic, they're always moving. We can see what the ideal should be, but how many people really actually have that when you look at them? I think it would be very small, the amount of people that would have perfect alignment. I think what we need to look at is what is that alignment like for that person? So, yes, if it's maybe vastly different, we could put in exercises or advice to maybe change it or guidance for them. If they're not having any problems, symptoms, they're feeling good, let them move. Because at the end of the day, if they're moving, that's what we want their bodies to do, and they're going to feel good for it. So I think correct it where we feel we need to, but I wouldn't necessarily say we need to over-correct it to achieve perfection when that might not be attainable.

SPEAKER_00

Do you see any sort of misconceptions around pain and what pain means? And I know we could have we could talk for an hour on this, Tracy. I know pain's a huge topic, but you know, we are often met, especially if we're working in privates, we're often met with clients who are experiencing some level of pain. How do we what do you do you see confusion out there? Like I definitely feel like I see sometimes pain means don't move. And that's sometimes not the best advice. I wondered what you're seeing out there in terms of pain and maybe what clients are misunderstanding, but maybe what other teachers are as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. I think from a client perspective, they see, like you say, if they've got pain, it means rest or don't move or don't do that exercise. Whereas I think if we modify that exercise, maybe take it down a level, maybe reduce the range of movement on it, maybe get them to feel it in the right places. That's the starting point of it. Because if they just don't move, muscles get tighter or joints get stiffer, and then they get more worried about it. So they move even less. And then we end up in even more pain because their bodies haven't been able to move. So I think it's really coming back to educating that client that, okay, let's just step it right down, let's start here. You know, that felt good last week. Let's add a little bit more and building it up for them. And then from a teacher perspective, I think, especially maybe newer teachers as well, who maybe don't have that experience or that understanding, is that they do get worried when somebody comes into class and they've got pain. And I think understandably you can agree that they would. But again, it's for them, it's thinking, right, well, they have pain in a certain part of their body or with a certain movement. Just having that small modification, how can we change it for them so that they're they're not in pain and we can get them to enjoy the class?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, I think that's really great advice because I think we we're often met with that, and it's it's nice to think about how can we empower people because fundamentally we have to get them moving, but can we get them moving in a pain-free way? However basic that might be, is actually quite powerful for them.

SPEAKER_01

And I think from a teacher perspective as well, you have to remember that person, if they've come to class and they've told you they've got pain, they want to be there. They've chosen to come to you. It's not as if you've made them come and now you're worried about what they're going to do. So they want you to help them. And I think if you can just take them to a level that suits them, give them an option that they do feel comfortable with and work with them, you know, they want to be there. So they they want to do it. It's a positive interaction between both of you.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. To end our conversation today, Tracy, I'd like to end with some quickish fire questions, if I may. Um, what is your favorite Pilates exercise and why?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I love shoulder bridge. I think it kind of ticks all the boxes in one go. It activates my core, it mobilizes my spine, it fires up my glutes, it lengthens out the front of my body. I just feel great when I move when I'm going through them.

SPEAKER_00

I also love it. I feel like I've got if I've got three, four minutes and that's all I've got, I'm gonna do a bridge. And is there a cue that you find yourself saying over and over again?

SPEAKER_01

I probably say relax your shoulders quite a lot. I think people feel the tension in, you know, they're tensed up during the exercises. And I often say just relax, relax those shoulders, enjoy the movement and flow with it, take that tension away from the top half.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's such a common like pattern that people have built up inside themselves, haven't they? So yeah, we see that a lot. Is there a biggest mistake that you see teachers make with anatomy?

SPEAKER_01

Trying to overcomplicate it, trying to use the anatomical terms and the muscle terms because they've spent so long learning it, they want to use it. But actually in class, keep it really simple. And what has Pilates taught you personally? Pilates has taught me that without a doubt, everyone should be doing Pilates, whatever their fitness level, medical ability, condition, because I think there's space for everyone. And it's served me through so many different parts of my life, different areas and stages that I actually don't know what I would have done without it through most of my adult life.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think it's been such a support for so many of us. I think it's such a lovely practice. Tracy, this has been such a fabulous conversation. Obviously, if those are people are interested in you, you've got the Science of Pilates book, which I really do recommend. It's a great read. Really supportive to the work that we do. You're on socials. Are you, you know, are you doing anything else? Do you run courses? How can people work with you?

SPEAKER_01

So I have my online studio so you can practice with me at home. I film for that every week, so there's new classes online, and I obviously teach in studio if you're local. My book and I also write ebooks, so I've got a new one coming out later.

SPEAKER_00

It's all on my website if you're interested. We'll put a link in the show notes. So thank you so much. It's been wonderful to chat to you. All things anatomy today. Thank you so much. A big thank you to Tracy for joining me for today's conversation. I really love this one because I think it made anatomy feel a little less intimidating and much more connected to what we actually do every day as teachers. Helping people move and feel better in their bodies and understanding how we can do it. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please do share it with another teacher, student, client who you think might find it useful. And as always, don't forget to like, follow, or subscribe, or also over on Instagram. So do send me a DM over there. Really love when you comment on our stories. We put clips up of all of these. So I hope you've enjoyed today's episode, and I will see you for another episode of Beyond the Reformer next week.