Michel Koch - Lost Records: Bloom & Rage

Join Simon as he sits down with the Co-Creator of Life Is Strange and Creative Director on DontNod Montreal's latest hit, Lost Records: Bloom & Rage. We explore the inception of the game and the journey through its fascinating development. We also talk to Michel about some of his favourite scenes in the game and we hear some fun stories about the actors who bought the characters to life...we also asked the all important question, what's next?

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Transcript

Simon: 0:00

Hello and welcome to Gone Gold with me, Simon Hill, eSports host, industry presenter and TV personality. Hey, hi and welcome to the first episode of Gone Gold. This is really exciting. Thank you to everyone tuning into the inception of the show. Can't wait to share this platform with you and bring you some really fun, insightful and entertaining interviews along the way. Allow me to give you an introduction and a little insight into what this show is and how it came to be and who will be appearing on it, more importantly. I've worked in the gaming industry for around 10 years now. I began as a journalist before moving on to hosting the News to Gamers TV show. For those who remember that, that was an awesome time. I then broke into hosting multiple events, interviewing developers, working with publishers, and interviewing some of your favourite characters from all around the world of video games. This show was originally a concept around four years ago, and outside of gaming, I'm also a professional sports commentator. And I began interviewing pro wrestlers, which exploded, and And that would top the charts around Apple Podcasts all over the world. And I'll just continue that journey because it got so popular. Now, four years on, I've decided to go back to the business I fell in love with and one that's close to my heart. Gone Gold is a love letter to the gaming industry. It's a show that celebrates awesome developers, actors, publishers, and those who bring you some of your most beloved gaming experiences. Every week you'll hear a new, fun, insightful interview like never before. And this isn't just another PR interview. This is a sit down as we deep dive and delve into some of the most captivating games, characters, scenes, and memories in the industry. Before we kick off our first episode, I want to say a huge thank you to everyone who has tuned into this episode today. Please take some time to give this podcast a rating on your chosen platform and even drop a mini review if you have the time. It helps reach more people and I guess the biggest benefit of all of this is it helps me establish more guests with your favourite developers or actors. As I mentioned that this show is a love letter to the video game industry and we're kicking off with exactly that my first guest is the co-creator game director and art director of life is strange and the creative director on his latest venture lost records bloom and rage his new montreal studio has released one of the most innovative unique stories in the history of the company with fantastic reviews to attest to their hard work and we talk about so much in this episode from the inception and idea behind Lost Records, to working with talented actors, what the community contributed to the game, and that all-important question, what's next? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Gone Gold with creative director, Michelle Cole. Here it is, ladies and gentlemen, the first episode of Gone Gold with me, Simon Hill. I'm incredibly proud that we're kicking things off in style with one of the most respected studios in gaming who have been at the forefront of creating some of the most immersive, captivating and innovative experiences across the industry. They've set the bar for some emotional storytelling. We've laughed, we've cried with them, all whilst being completely submerged in a unique adventure. Allow me to introduce you to the co-creator of Life is Strange and more recently he's led the team as creative director on the phenomenal Lost Records, Bloom and Rage, Michel Coe. Welcome to the show.

Michel: 4:17

Thank you so much Simon for having me today and like I told you it's really an honour to be one of the first for your new show. So thank you. Thank you so much.

Simon: 4:29

It's an absolute honor to have you here. And I think I want to kick things off with now that both parts of Lost Records are out in the world. You'll see players sit down and enjoy this incredible game that you've built. And it's been a long road. You know, there was a delay. It was worth it in the end because we've got to experience this incredible story. How are you and the team feeling? Surely you're over the moon now to see it in players. We'd

Michel: 4:55

say we're tired first, because making games is always hard. But yeah, we are so happy that the game is out, that we've seen players discovering those new characters, having emotions with them. discovering the secrets of the summer of 95, going with those characters and finding them again in 2022 and discovering what's happening at the end of the game. We've been receiving a lot of messages from fans about how they loved those characters and how they had the feeling that they found friends and lost friends at the end of the game, which for me is one of the best things I can hear about a game we are making. Because we are making games I'm especially making games for that. I think some of the best work I love in TV or movies or games is when at the end of the TV show or the game, I have a feeling of I lost some friends, I leave some characters behind. So if some of our players are experiencing that with our games, it means that it's a success. It's great. It's something very strong.

Simon: 6:09

I can tell by the passion in your voice how much these projects has meant to you. I think it's really cool as well. I mean, something that I've noticed is you have such a huge fan base. Has it been fun to see some of the fan theories going around as well? And were some of those, you know, which ones were the favorites and that stood out to you before obviously everyone got their hands on the full two parts?

Michel: 6:30

That's something that's always great with episodic games. I mean, even if in Lost Records it was only two parts, we did that a lot before for Life is Strange and Life is Strange 2, making those games in five parts. it was so fun to read on on reddit on on social media to see the fan series what the players were expecting from from what's next um on lost records we had some really good ones that uh i mean some players were really spot on with uh what would be happening but there was also some very wild theories like the one i liked a lot that I saw was the theory of the fifth group member, like players, because of some of the artistic choice we made with camera point of view in the past and some moments. Some players were adamant that there was a fifth girl that was with the group that they forgot. And it was very interesting. So it was not the case, but it was something that I really liked. looking how they would pick up on some details to get into this theory.

Simon: 7:38

And I think a really cool aspect to this, I guess we don't really get the insight into this, but as a studio, are you looking at some of these and going, yeah, that'd be really cool if we did that?

Michel: 7:50

Yeah, totally. And the thing is that we don't have time, of course, to change everything. But it really happens. When we see some ideas, sometimes we're like, oh, We should have thought of that, and if we could, if we had more time, maybe we could put some of that in the next episode. During the development of Life is Strange, since it was five episodes, we were able to slightly make change, because when, after episode one was released, we were looking a lot at what the players were liking about the game, or what they were talking about the game, and we were still working I think when episode one was released, we were working on episode four and five, I guess. So we still had some leverage to make some adjustments for those final episodes. And so it's old. It's more than 10 years ago. But if I remember correctly, we added the scene in Life is Strange. We added the scene that takes place at the hospital when we go and see Kate in Kate's room at the hospital. We added this theme. I think it's in episode four or three. I don't even remember. I'm sorry. But we added this theme because we saw that the players were such fans of the character of Kate and what we did with her that we found a way to add a smaller scene to feature her a bit more in the story than what was planned at the origin. So yeah, sometimes with the team, we are telling ourselves, oh, we should pick up on that, and we should make a nod to this fan theory. And it's great when we can do that, because it's a reactive. It's basically trying to interact within the game with your community, which is something I really love.

Simon: 9:44

Let's go right back to the start. Going into pre-production, you'd just come off at the back of Life is Strange 2. What was it that drew you into a summer's 90s setting with four characters and a completely different element of storytelling here, especially going into the shoes of Swan?

Michel: 10:01

That's a long story. You're right, we were just finishing Life is Strange 2 and I think it was at the end of 2019. Um, and we're thinking of what's next. There was, um, so, you know, um, Square Enix were working with Deck Nine to work on the other, other Life is Strange games. And I think that, um, it's not that we didn't want to make any more Life is Strange. It's more like there was, it was not in the plans either of Square Enix or the top management at Dontnod to have another game happening right now at this moment. And we'll see what happens in the future. But, um, So we are thinking of what's next for us. And at the same time, with Luc Bagadouste, our executive producer from Life is Strange, we wanted to move to Canada to start a new branch for AdoptNotes. That was something we were tasked by Oscar Gilbert, our CEO, to start a new studio, not in France, but to start a new studio from scratch in Quebec, in Montreal, Canada. So that was the start of starting something new start a new team start a new studio where we were thinking of course at the game we wanted to make and with Jean-Luc Canot as a writer I've been working with for the past 10 years or so since Life is Strange we knew that we this time wanted to tell a story that would focus still focus on teenagers but we really wanted to focus on adults also too because we are getting older and at a point there was some narrative threads we wanted to explore about not only what it is to grow up but also what it is to actually be an adult and reflect upon your teenagehood and I think that was the big first steps of this game just having a game where you would play the characters in two timelines of their lives having a reunion evening with former friends you haven't seen since more than a very long time since your teenagehood and the game would we really wanted to have the game structured in a way that it's a reunion with those friends that would triggers interactive memories where you would play and reconstruct the story and we didn't have much of the characters or the story back then more of the framework like having this back and forth between two timelines having a mystery and reconstruct this mystery as you play in your teenage memories.

Simon: 12:38

What's really great there is some of the questions where we're breaking these parts down, you're filling in for us, which is, you know, the passion of what you've managed to create there. And I think having that element where, you know, the summer of 95 has never been stranger, right? You know, great hook. But what's really fascinating, you mentioned it there, and it helps build the tension throughout the story, is the dual timeline element. It throws you between the era of 1995 and 2022, I believe, when the teenage girls have become adults and how meticulous was that story planning and gameplay execution? You had to get this right because you also wanted to make it a core element of the story.

Michel: 13:18

I think a lot of things evolve organically. So we had this premise of reunion evening, a mystery, friends you haven't seen for more than 27 years, and you are reconstructing the story and remembering the story as you play those memories. We knew that we wanted the story to take place around 1995-1996, I think because of our own experience. I was a teenager. I was almost the age of Swan in 1995. Jean-Luc was the same. So even if we grew up in France, we still had an image in our memory of what the 90s were. And I think we wanted to recreate that in the game and give that to our players. But then, yes, you have to think of a story that works with those time jumps. Like when you start the game, As a player, you don't know anything of what's happening, and your character, Swan, she knows more than you, because she's on the parking of the bar, she goes for this reunion evening, and you don't know as much as her. But we also use the trope of having the memory loss, like, they definitely don't remember everything that happened during the summer of 95 for some reason that you will discover in the game. So that helps us makes the interactivity work like as a player the things you are remembering and recollecting with swan she's actually recollecting them this the same way as you that so the this is allowing us to change things to make sure that the the way you're playing the past memories you are basically rewriting the story and making things happen like who you are getting closer to what relationship you had with those girls it's you as a player who are defining that when you play And it was not set in stone in Swann's memories, of course. And then we are working on graphs. Like we have the story in the present days. We have the big element of story with the branching we want to do in the past. So we create these huge boards of post-its. I mean, we do that mostly on a computer, but with virtual post-its where we have those timelines, present timeline, past timelines, and we see what kind of back and forth we are doing with it. what kind of branching we can allow ourselves to do, because we have also production constraints, we cannot make as many branches as we would love to do, so we have to rationalize that. And I guess then it's a question of playtesting the story, iterating on the story, bringing new team members to have new ideas on the story. That's how we recruited and worked with Nina Freeman and Desirée Seyfried. two American writers that worked a lot on all the lines and the story in the game with us. And the thing happened. And basically, as you work on the game, things change. The game we did release last month is very close to what we had in mind four years ago, but still a lot of things change because it's also evolved in its own way as we work with the team.

Simon: 16:18

For me personally, I just love when we come back to that modern day because then we're building the tension of what's happening next, what's coming up, what's going on, and where are we going to end up after this before we again go back to 1995. Also, Michelle, I have to do this for myself, selfishly, and the community. Can we please get a Gus and Pam spin-off?

Michel: 16:43

I'd love that. Oh, so that's a... Cool story about Gus and Pam. Of course, it is a nod to Stardew Valley. It wasn't planned at the beginning. We knew that we had the character of the bartender, and it was our lead character artist, Juliette de Villers, with a huge fan of Stardew Valley. And when she was working on the characters, at the point we were asking, what's the name of the bartender? And we liked the name Gus, and we had in mind, of course, this... reference from Stardew Valley and those characters in the game. And so we created the character Pam, not just for this node, but it's still something that happened. Pam was not planned at the beginning of the game, but we added her because we wanted to have another woman who had the slightly older than our main characters, who also was an ally. Because when you meet her in the past, she's one of the nice... woman in town who is not against our cast of four girls and wanted her to have this kind of vibe where she knew some more things about what's happening in the woods, what's happening in the town. So hopefully we could have more stories about her. I don't know in what form, but I'd love, of course, to...

Simon: 18:01

I think we'd all love to hear more. I fell in love with Gus straight away. I was like, no, this guy's got some stories. Even if the game is just me sitting at the bar, you know, ordering a drink and listening to him tell stories. You know? As

Michel: 18:19

a voice actor, for him, it was great. I really love talking with Gus. And something which changed... a long time development, is the very first version of the bartender we brought four years ago was way less nice. I think it was more rough, more slightly, I don't know, not an adversary.

Simon: 18:42

Sarcastic?

Michel: 18:43

Sarcastic, sometimes a bit, I think it was a bit of an asshole, the first version we made. And we were like... we have too many assholes, and we need to have some nicer characters, so we really, we wanted to be a much more nicer bartender, and I think some of our inspiration also for, I don't know if you watch the TV show Gilmore Girls, and if you remember the character of Luke, we had in mind of this kind of character, like, he's very nice, but slightly sometimes can be rough around the edges, but he's a really good guy, and that's what we wanted to get with our second version of Gus, and the version of Gus that's in in

Simon: 19:22

the final game. What really brings all of that to life, though, is the nostalgia element. 1995, how fun was it for you, as you said you were a teenager back then, to go back and explore all these elements of nostalgia and probably get reminded of a few things along the way?

Michel: 19:51

Yeah, I've always loved the small town settings. I grew up in France in a small town, so it's not the same as an American small town, but still, I feel like it's... the same idea everywhere it's something that's a bit like universal like when you grew up as a teenager in a small town especially in the 90s when there is no mobile phone almost no internet you have to find things to do basically you have to go out to explore to go in the in in the woods just to use your imagination with your friends to find something to do Of course, we were also playing video games back then, very early days of video games, but it was not the same as today. So when you're in a small town, you have to, I mean, the outskirts of the town starts to become your kingdom or your playground or where you want to find things to do. and you have some iconic places like the video store or the movie theater or something like that when you grew up in a small town. So we really wanted to get this feeling because the game takes place during the summer and we wanted this summer to be almost like a love story at first sight or friendship love story at first sight for those four girls. So we needed the setting to feel like what do we do to have fun when there is nothing to do in a boring small town. So that's why we have them go into the woods, find this hideout, create their own space, find this small beach on the lake. And they're creating stories in a setting that doesn't have a lot of stories by itself. It's basically you make your own stories in a small town setting. And that's what we wanted to create. And a lot of inspiration was, of course, from one of my favorite TV shows, Twin Peaks, from Mark Frost and David Lynch. And if you look at the tone of Twin Peaks, you never really understand what is the map of Twin Peaks. You just have some landmarks and location that feels magical. And that creates what is Twin Peaks. You just don't know what is the map of the main street or everything. You have a feeling of various locations that's gathered together, creates Twin Peaks. And we wanted to, in a way, to kind of recreate that for Velvet Cove.

Simon: 22:16

Oh, that's awesome. Let's talk about that nostalgic piece whilst you're doing all of your research and getting your notes and what to include in the game from that era. Were there a few things like, yeah, these were cool. I remember seeing one of the finger skateboards, I think, at one point in the game and a few other little nods to the old school sweets and chocolate bars we used to get. What was so fun for you to jump in and pick up some of those old fashioned toys or sweets and put those assets in around the game?

Michel: 22:48

Yeah, it was amazing to try to think of what will be the iconic elements from the 90s that we want or we can put in the game. At the early stages of production, what we did is just work with all the team. I asked every team member to take a page and just write what were the 90s for you. So we basically tried to gather the memories of the 90s for each of our team members back then. We were a small team at the beginning, but still. And everybody has some different vision of what were the 90s. So it was really interesting to try to look at everybody and see what were the common ground, what were the common elements, what were the colors or the toys or the games or the movies that people were remembering vividly from the 90s. And we didn't really make then a checklist, but we really wanted to feature the one that would serve the mood. Because our goal was to make sure that people who actually grew up in the 90s, they would feel the nostalgic mood of this game. But we also wanted that younger players, players who were not just either just young kids or not even born during the 90s, we still wanted them to find something in this game that feels interesting. And I think it's like they are discovering something that feels old and ancient and different, so we wanted to find this balance to make sure that it works for the nostalgic players, but it also works for the newcomers who are like, oh, That was so weird. Why were they doing that? So one of my favorites is, for example, the Magic Eye book that you can find in Swan's bedroom. And I know that a lot of players just cannot see the picture. But if you know how to squint, to cross eyes, and to look at it, you can actually see 3D pictures in those. And it's really funny because some players will They just cannot get it. They just don't see it. And they are like asking the other, what is that? What are you seeing? And

Simon: 25:10

that was the 90s though, wasn't it? You know, we had... We just loved to fall out of trees. We loved to go to the video store, ride our bikes, and we had all the weirdest toys. Well, they weren't weird at the time, but now you'd be like, well, how did you make something out of that? And that's what you had to do, like you said earlier. You had to make something out of nothing back then, and that's what was so cool. I think the ultimate setting, I think what created the picture in Lost Records is... the early introduction of the video store right now we've all got memories anyone that grew up around the 90s have all got memories of video stores and it was like a day out wasn't it you know it's so exciting to go there grab your popcorn spend hours looking for a vhs to take back and uh you know you'd all curl around the sofa or the fire or whatever and just watch these vhs and be enamored by them it's such an incredible era i

Michel: 26:04

would have loved that we could have done slightly more with the video store go inside at the point at early stage of production. We really wanted to have the interior of the video store be there and have some more scenes and things happening in it. But yeah, it was a challenge because you have to recreate. I mean, you know, when we are working with video games, we need to work with the legal department. And we cannot recreate every existing movie. I mean, we cannot use any existing art for movies. So the interior of a video store with only fake movies would have been too much work. So we made the exterior, we recreated all those fake movies that for us were iconic, like you've seen the Primal Preserve, which is of course a nod to Jurassic Park, and all of those movies we created were kind of the movies from 92, 93, 94 that we wanted to feature in the game. But unfortunately, yes, we were not able to have the manpower to recreate everything inside the store, so we kept it outside. Yeah, my memories of video stores were, I remember as a teenager, I just was very excited to go to the video store almost every week and look at the new arrival, you know, because in a video store with the new arrival, you have more than 20 or 30 copies of the same movie when it's a big blockbuster, and it's like, yeah, I can rent this one. And yeah, for me it was a great way to engage with movies, like in the movie theater, but I really loved the go to the video store, find the tape I wanted to rent, go back home, watch it, and have to go back and return it in a way that was a ritual that fails. You connected with the movie because you had to actually walk take back home, walk back to the video store. It felt like something. And don't get me wrong, I love streaming and access to so many movies today, but it's so easy to get to see a movie that sometimes you don't commit because it's so easy to start something, oh, it's okay, and you stop watching the movie and you go to something else. If you rent a video, even if it's not a great movie, you watch it because you paid for it. You made the you actually went to the video store and that was a great way to engage with movies that felt maybe not as great but in the end you still love them because it was personal.

Simon: 28:37

Yeah, there's nothing quite like that. And, you know, the later generation have missed out on how exciting that was. And a bit later on, video stores would introduce games and you could go and rent games. And again, it would be the same process. You couldn't wait to see what was on the shelf the next week you went in. And sometimes I think you'd get games for like five days or something. Again, you'd have to do the same process. But it would be the same process. You'd have to go down, you'd Yeah, that was really something we wanted to push and I've

Michel: 29:34

I mean, I've read the reception for the game, which is great, but I've read some players or some critics, some say that tape one sometimes was dragging a bit too long, or that tape two sometimes at the opposite was a bit too short, and I completely get those feedbacks. But in the end, why tape one is longer is that we really wanted to get you spend time with those girls and just get into the world so it was maybe a tough decision especially nowadays where everything has to be fast and immediate because we the story is there in the background but we still spend a lot of time to make sure that you have time to discover who is swan to get into this world where you meet those girls and then you spend some days just chilling with them just gets to know them, talking with them, and do, I would say, useless, such important stuff with them during the summer days. So we needed that slowness to get to know them. And that's something that's very 90s, like you had the days felt longer because you were not on your phone, you were not reminded all the time of time passing, of, oh, I have to get back, I have to... phone or send a text message because I need to be there at this moment. We really wanted to get this feeling of endless summer where you can just be bored with your friends and that's so cool to be bored with your friends because that's how you You bond with them, basically.

Simon: 31:15

Yeah, you had to talk to each other. Yes. In person. Entering the nostalgic playground, you took control of Swan, as we've mentioned, who was played by the wonderful Olivia Lepore. Olivia's gone on record to say that Don't Nod have the most beautiful family. So I don't know if you know that, but she has gone on record.

Michel: 31:37

That's so cool. She's awesome. She's so great.

Simon: 31:39

What was it like to work with Olivia? She clearly took on this role, she was super passionate, and there's also a really fun story where she originally actually auditioned for a different character.

Michel: 31:52

Yeah, so that's a very, very fun one. I mean, casting is always a part of any project that I love the most, because that's where you discover your characters, and when we write a character, it's just... the first draft on paper. We really need the voice actor to meet the character for real. And the way we like to work is really when we have the voice actor, sometimes we readjust, of course, the writing to make sure that it works with the voice actor rather than this is our version of the character and deal with it. So first original casting, I remember that we were receiving audition tapes for the four girls. and i don't think we had anyone we were particularly there was no swan where we were like oh this is swan and in the auditions for for cat there was olivia which i think didn't work that well for cats because she's just one and so we were like but wait this this this cat this audition for cat we should project, we should try to have her come back and audition for Swan. And I don't remember exactly how it happened, but when she came back and she recited Swan's line, it was her. Yeah, it was definitely, it was perfect. We knew that we needed to hire her to be Swan and to embody Swan. That's a really cool way to That's a cool anecdote, because if we were not open-minded to say, let's try her for another part, it wouldn't have worked. And the other interesting thing is that Natalie De Conti, who plays Kat, she originally auditioned for Noah. And we thought, oh, she would make a great Kat. So basically, we did a lot of shuffling around based on what our casting agency send us. And we were like, oh, we will shuffle some around.

Simon: 34:07

There were some incredible actresses we've mentioned too there, with Olivia and Natalie, who's an unreal actress. You had Andrea Carter as well, who played Autumn, and Amelia Saugerson, who played

Michel: 34:22

Nora. What I loved with those, and those two were the two ones we were the most sure of the casting first. I think we really locked Autumn and Nora in. earlier, and then we had to try Natalie and Olivia to shuffle them around to make sure it worked. But for Andrea and Amelia, so we had the audition tapes, we were loving already their performance, but what we did after just the audition tape to make sure it works is we had actually have them come on site for an in-person session to see if there was any chemistry between them. And Yeah, the first time we saw Emilia and Andrea together, we had the feeling that they knew each other for 10 years or more. So we knew that it was them. Even if they didn't know each other, they just knew each other for a few minutes. It really was the two best friends, and it was working so well.

Simon: 35:22

First day of filming, you're in the space with the actors, you're going through lines... When you're watching these guys perform, are you just thinking, no, this is exactly what we wanted and more? Was it a slow process, collaborative effort, or was it instant, no, this is it, this is exactly what we're looking for?

Michel: 35:42

I think we were quite lucky because for Oton and Noah, for Andrea and Amelia, it was really like, this is it, and this is even working better than what I thought. And then when we had the chance to have Natalie and Olivia come back to switch their part and play Kat and play Swan, we were also like, yes, it's exactly what we need. And the thing is, I really like to, like I said, to adjust our characters then based on the voice actors. So that's also... We make a very big step on defining the characters, creating those character sheets, their voices, what we need. Then we have the casting, we find the actors and the actresses. But then we adjust also our script and our characters to make them even work better for the actors and the actresses. Because they bring a lot. Like when we are going into voice recording sessions, I like to always tell the voice actor, like, if a line feels weird to you, don't hesitate to change it so it feels more natural for you to deliver it. Because I feel like there is nothing worse than a voice actor who is not believing in the voice line. So if the line is weird because we didn't write it correctly or made some weird choices, I mean, we have great actors who are also artists who just know their characters. They can improve the lines.

Simon: 37:15

Did you expect the community to connect so much with these four characters? There are fan accounts on each character. There's a podcast dedicated just to the show that explore these characters. A lot of them connect personally with their backgrounds as well. Was this a welcome surprise for the studio?

Michel: 37:35

I would say it's always a welcome surprise because creating a character is always a hit or miss. I mean, you... Even if that's what we love the most, I really think that my way of writing stories in games is really thinking of character first. We really think that characters are keys to make sure that any story is great. I have a feeling that if you don't have great characters, you cannot tell a great story, where the opposite is slightly more true. If you have great characters, it helps to make the story better. So I would say that we always hope that the players will resonate with our characters because that's really our goal. We make those characters to make sure that we want our players to love them as much as friends and that was really the core of this game. The main theme was group friendship and it was the whole intention of the project was to put you in the shoes of Swan and make you want to interact with those girls to to meet them, to be part of the group, and to basically meet your best friends. And I would say lose them at the end of the summer and just rediscover them 27 years later. So when we've seen that it worked, that players were loving those characters so much, it's of course a big, it's very warm, it's a big win because it's exactly what we are creating those characters in this goal. But it always, It's always a surprise. I mean, seeing the cosplays, the fan art, the fan fictions, or just, yeah, just the love for the characters. It's why we're making games. So it's always great to read that. And it's always more than when we thought it would be. So I love that.

Simon: 39:20

You must be proud. And another key aspect, I think, one of the most important things in any game is the score. And we're talking my sort of music now, Michelle. In the 90s, with Lost Records, you had this punk vibe. We had some Dreamstate in there as well. But, you know, in 1995, we had the likes of Green Day, Blink-182, The Offspring a little bit earlier. It was kind of the Ramones and Bad Religion. Some real cool bands. Were some of these the influences for what you wanted to bring with the punk side of things

Michel: 39:53

so this is a very cool question because we quite early in the game we weren't completely sure of what the mood of the music should be and at the point we're thinking okay should we go the route of really licensing a lot of those 90s tracks you're mentioning just to recreate even more the mood of the 90s but it felt for me that it was not exactly the intention of this game. I mean, it's a game where music is important, but it's not a game about music. It's a game about friendship and about outcasts who are part of a punk band, but they're not great at music. They are doing music because it's what they love and it's what summons their friendship together. So it's a game about more about have the adults, you have the teenagers, we are playing adult Swan who goes back into memories of our past. So we thought that we needed the soundtrack and the music to feel more like a bridge in between those two timelines, to feel timeless. And that's why I really wanted to have the soundtracks have a lot of inspiration from the Dream Pop music movement, and especially The two main inspirations were Chromatix and Beach House. Even before we worked with Ruth Radley, I really thought that Chromatix should be for me the big inspiration musically for this game. Because I feel like the music of Chromatix or Beach House, it's a music that feels timeless. It sounds from the 80s, 90s. in some of the way of the mood of the music, but it sounds very modern in how well produced and how modern it sounds also. So it's basically a timeless music that would work really well as the soundtrack for memories of the past. So going advancing, we heard that Chromatix had split. I was sad and I was like, oh no, so Chromatix doesn't exist anymore. But we saw that Ruth Radley was starting her own solo project And we had the wild guess to let's try to write to her. And she answered. And basically, we had a meeting in a team meeting just with her. And she just was really liking the premise of the game. And it was like a dream come true when it happened that she was OK to write songs for this game. And she even brought back two members of Chromatix to write songs for the game. So basically, the music she composed, it's three out of four older members of Chromatics who made those songs.

Simon: 42:42

Wow, wow. And I should have prepped you on this next question, but it just kind of got me thinking while you were talking there. What's on Michelle Ko's Spotify?

Michel: 42:53

So it's very, so the fun thing is that the songs we are using at the end of tape one, Miss from Beach House, I think it's been

Simon: 43:01

for the

Michel: 43:02

past 10 years, always my most listened songs at my 25th record. And I think it's one of my favorite songs of all time. And I really, at the point I was saying, even when we were working on Life is Strange, I was thinking, I hope there will be a game where these songs will make a lot of sense and I could use it in a game. So I didn't create this game just for this song, but on the opposite, when we were working on this last scene of Tape One, and I felt like, okay, this is the moment where we should use it. But yeah, a lot of my own Spotify is... is very close to what we have in in lost records uh i feel like this game is very personal to me and it was working very well with what i like in music wise of course i'm listening to a lot of other things that are not in this game but still there is a lot of dream pop on on my on my personal spotify that really resonates with with that and and i guess also a lot of the musics we use in Life is Strange, they're on my own Spotify because I feel like the The mood of those games is very close to my own, of course, personal taste.

Simon: 44:20

Well, there we have it. We now know what's on Michel's Spotify if we've learned anything today. I just want to kind of get into the emotional side here just for a little bit. There were some really wonderful moments that were captured in the game and it really encapsulated the beauty of friendship and togetherness. A few that really stood out and connected with me personally. Tape one where a cat climbed over the ledge. to look out at that stunning view and her friends all joining her to sit down on the ledge. And you had that amazing shot of their feet dangling as they're laughing and joking with each other. I just thought that was so, so beautiful. Alongside that, you also had the makeshift beach scene, you know, and you were prompted to hit the music. And again, you just brought into this true love of friendship. Were these taken from any real life situations you or the team have found yourselves in in the past?

Michel: 45:16

Some of them have been, but for example the one you mentioned with Denling Fields, it all comes down to one of the concept art that our art director Sam Bradley did. We knew that we wanted, of course, this feeling of just having those endless days, looking at the scenery, and we know that we have the lake, the Great Lake, in front of them. And he made this picture with just the feet and the lake in the background. And we knew that we wanted this to be featured in the game. So we used that as a main menu. And during this scene you mentioned, we also used that for this moment after cats jump over the rail guard. And then we switched to a dialogue where you're just seeing their feet for two or three minutes. And even as you answer, we keep this point of view because it felt like strong to keep this point of view rather than going back to their face and just seeing their small motion in their feet as they're talking. It was something, that's the kind of moment I love in the video games we can make that's maybe slightly different to other games where we can just take our time And the other moments you mentioned, like the montage when you start the radio and you have Dreamers from Ruth Radley, which is playing, and a lot of those small vignettes from their endless days, it was something I wanted to do from very, very early in the project, because it was our own version of a montage from the 90s, you know, the training montage, or any montage you have in the 90s movies where you just see small pieces cuts of our music we really wanted to feature that but about friendship about their their friendship training montage basically and we tried to put some interactivity in it it's very very light it's just you most of the time press a button or make a choice decide who to give a flower and it advanced with the music but we felt like it was a nice showing of how time times they spend a few weeks just getting more and more friendly to each other

Simon: 47:29

Well, you've captured my heart, Michel. I can tell you that much. I was almost a bawling mess at some points. I was wowed and captivated. A couple of questions before I do let you go. I'm very conscious of your time here. A few quickfire questions for you. Who's your favourite character?

Michel: 47:46

This is such a hard one. I mean, you shouldn't pick one of... your favorite. If you have children or if you have pets, you shouldn't say which one is your favorite. I don't know. I would say that I love really them all and when we create characters, we try to... I think we would not create a character if we don't love them as a character or their story arc or what they represent or what they bring to the story. But if I just think of who I'm the closest to, I still feel like Swan is the one I'm I'm the closest to, because she's the protagonist and I really like to create protagonists where I can project some part of myself in it. And some of the key words we wanted to do with Swan is to create her as a positive introvert. Like she's shy and she's an introvert, but I still really wanted to portray that as not feeling like too much of a weakness, be more like, she's loving to go to walk in the woods by herself and that's okay that's something you can do you can still enjoy your life doing that and if you see her in the present time she's living alone in a small town with a nice cottage in the woods as you mentioned and she's quite happy with it so that's something i wanted to portray because i'm i i feel like myself i'm a social introvert i of course like to be around people but i'm really also enjoy my a long time and I wanted to portray that in a way with Swan in a way that won't feel like it's a weakness.

Simon: 49:27

Next question is what is your favourite scene in the game? Now there's plenty to choose from so I can understand this being a difficult question too.

Michel: 49:34

That's also a hard one. I think that the scene I'm the most proud of and it's in tape too and I think it's a dance scene. I really think like the what we achieved with the cinematic artist, with the music, with the fashion animation and the mood of the scene is very close to what I had in mind at the beginning of the project where it's their moment of, their last moment of being of quiet together but it also turns into something that's very magical and I love how we blurred the line between what is real, what is magic what is maybe slightly a projection of what the abyss and their friendship is making them feel feel feel and yeah i think it's a it's a great scene that uh as a player i'd love to experience so i'm very proud of this scene yeah

Simon: 50:37

and if you could offer a gift to the abyss what would you offer and what would you ask in return

Michel: 50:44

should not answer this question i mean You know how it goes wrong. Each time you ask something in any movie, in whatever, it goes badly. So we should ask something very mundane so it doesn't have any repercussion. Like, just ask for... I don't know. I would love to be able to live again one day in the 90s, just to re-experience the 90s for real and go to a video store a very... old one, a real one, just re-experience some of this magic because we know that it's only in our memories now. But we lived it, so that's already cool.

Simon: 51:26

Yeah, exactly. We've got those memories and we can keep them forever. Very good answer as well. Final question. I'd be remiss if I didn't ask this for our community and we'll take away any answer you choose to give. Have we seen the last of Lost Records and can we expect to have some more experiences in the future?

Michel: 51:45

So for this question, of course, I cannot say things that I cannot say about what's next. But the way we worked on this game is really to create a story that hopefully still feels... complete in a way for this smaller journey, but within the universe and within characters that we really hope we will be able to make them come back. That's why it's called Lost Records, Bloom and Rage. We really wanted to create something that we own as a company where we can come back when we will be able to. So I cannot say much more about those plans. But as a creator, we... with Jean-Luc and with the team, we have already a lot of ideas of where this goes, of what happens, of course, after the end of Bloom and Rage, of what you see with Swan, with Cat, with Auton and Noah. We have ideas of what to do next. We have ideas of how we link this game to Other leads we've put in the games, like the things you can find in the hideout, the stories about the miners, it's a lot of leads, of breadcrumbs for ideas that we want to develop. So we'll have to see when and how, but we have built this universe in a way that we can come back to it for sure.

Simon: 53:10

So there's still hope for that Gus and Pam DLC someday. Who knows? We should do that. I would. Just take my money. Just take it now. michelle this has been incredible i'd like to firstly thank you for being my first guest on this show it's been in the works for for years for myself but i'm glad that i was able to get yourself on as my first guest this has been such an insightful fun interview for me and i'd like to just leave you to have the final word on the show on the podcast and and also you know about you and the studio as well

Michel: 53:45

thank you thank you so much simon and i would say first Really, thank you for having me on this show. Congratulations for the show. And it's been really fun talking with you and talking to your audience. And I will watch closely the other podcasts, the other episodes you will do. And yeah, I would say thank you also to all the players and the fans of Lost Records and the games we did before. that's for them for you that we are doing those games to prove that we're creating those characters and we really hope that you will be there for the next games we are doing and you'll continue to have a love for those characters and those storytelling

Simon: 54:32

Well, where do I start? I want to thank Michelle and the team at Don't Nod Montreal for helping pull all of this together. And we were able to hear some really fascinating insights into the stories behind the game and some really fun little anecdotes along the way too. We've launched the show strong here and we're not slowing down. Head over to Gone Gold Show on X and Instagram to find out who our next guest is. And trust me, you won't want to miss it. I'd also like to point you in the direction of the ratings on your chosen platform. Takes seconds to do and really helps push this podcast in front of more people. We'll see you next week with a brand new episode of Gone Gold with me, Simon Hill. Until then, keep it locked.