Liminal Lounge Mediums Podcast - Episode 7 - Shadow work

In this episode, hosts Carey Kaas, Lorenda Carr, and Michelle Oyler explore the depth and reality of shadow work — what it truly is, how it shows up, and why it becomes an essential part of spiritual and mediumship development.

Moving beyond the common misconceptions of “dark vs light,” this conversation brings a grounded and honest perspective to shadow work as a path of awareness, integration, and growth. Through personal experiences, client work, and teaching, the hosts share how shadow work naturally emerges on the spiritual path — often at moments of expansion, challenge, or transition.

From emotional triggers and nervous system responses to mediumship development and healing practices, this episode offers both insight and practical ways to begin working with your shadow in a supportive and realistic way.

Topics Covered

•  What shadow work actually is (beyond common misconceptions) 
•  Carl Jung’s concept of the shadow self 
•  Shadow work as integration, not “fixing.” 
•  How shadow work naturally appears during spiritual awakening 
•  The connection between shadow work and mediumship development 
•  Emotional triggers as gateways to deeper awareness 
•  Anxiety, the nervous system, and shadow activation 
•  Why shadow work influences intuitive accuracy and interpretation 
•  The importance of doing your own work as a reader or healer 
•  “Hitting a ceiling” in spiritual growth and what it means 
•  Shadow work is an ongoing practice, not a one-time process 
•  Practical tools and approaches: 
  •  Journaling and self-observation 
  •  Body awareness and emotional tracking 
  •  Meditation and grounding practices 
  •  Bioenergetics and energy flow 
  •  Brain spotting and EMDR concepts 
•  The role of therapy and support systems 
•  Working with Spirit Guides to navigate shadow work 
•  Learning to hold space for yourself and others 
•  Reframing shadow work as growth and expansion 

Notable Quotes

“It’s not about darkness — it’s about wholeness.” 

“Shadow work is self-honesty — choosing to look at what’s uncomfortable.” 

“When things start coming up, it’s a sign of growth.” 

“You don’t finish shadow work. It’s a practice.” 

“Your shadow isn’t here to stop you — it’s here to be integrated.” 

Recommended Resources

• Women Who Run With the Wolves — Clarissa Pinkola Estés 
• The Body Keeps the Score — Bessel van der Kolk 
• Owning Your Own Shadow — Robert A. Johnson 
• Meeting the Shadow — Connie Zweig & Jeremiah Abrams 

Connect with Your Hosts

Carey Kaas — Medium & Mentor
🌐 www.careykaas.com

✉️ carey.thepsychic@gmail.com

Lorenda Carr
🌐 www.lorendacarr.com

✉️ spiritualinsightnetwork@gmail.com

Michelle Oyler
🌐 www.michelleoylermystic.wordpress.com

✉️ mysticmedium7@gmail.com

Transcript

Carey 0:00

This episode today is something that I think the three of us have had a lot of experience with, and that is shadow work. I'm sure that we have all been hearing that terminology and at some point, I think most people, if you are a medium, most people have talked about this topic. I know a lot of my students. Who aren't experienced with the journey of healing? Ask me that question. What is shadow work? We're gonna be talking about it today, both from our own personal experience, but also when we're dealing with working with Spirit and our students, and I'm really excited to get into it. So let's say hello to our co-host, Michelle. How are you? Great. Hello. It's good to be here. It's good to be together. We haven't seen each other. It's whole weeks. We're really excited to been to this topic and Lolo nda. How are you? I'm doing well, thank you. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm looking forward to talking about this, this topic as well. It's such a, an important part of, especially if you're on a medium ship journey, but any kind of spiritual journey. This is if you're going through an awakening. Yeah, I'm, I think it's good to talk about this topic because so many people hear it one way. They might take it as another. Let's debunk some things today. Yeah. Oh, I love it. We love debunking. Hmm. One of the things that every time I've gone to research this, we are always drawn back to Carl Jung, you know, who was a psychiatrist of course, in the earlier part of the 19 hundreds, and he gave this understanding to us of that we have two parts. Of ourselves. Right? That's how he equated it. He said, we have the part of us that the world sees on the outside, you know, albeit, you go through your life, you have a, roles you play in your life. You might be mother, you might be friend, you might be, um, a business professional, things like that. And you show this face to the world. However, there also is this part of us that is hidden that maybe we don't even know about, and that is where it's known as the shadow cell. And I think there's a lot of myth. Around shadow being dark, and then, um, things that we know about being light, and we're really here to, again, like Lorena said, debunk that and to help us understand that. But essentially one of the things that I feel when I think about the shadow self is the part of us that we haven't really embraced or integrated or healed, or come to terms with. And we live in a world of polarities. And, you know, I wanna say this is about harmony and balance. Right? Yeah. Michelle, I'd love to, um, move it over to you, my friend, and let, what, what is your impression of shadow? Shadow work? Yeah. About your, yeah. Well, you, you know, it's interesting. I, I really didn't even, I wasn't even looking for it initially, but it was through mediumship that it. Kept coming up for me personally. And of course we do hear about it a lot. People talk about it a lot in what we do as mediums because it's so important to our mediumship. Um, for me, shadow work is about becoming aware of the parts. Of myself that I've pushed away, and whether it's from fear or insecurity, um, and, and I don't even realize, I don't think we realize we've done it, you know, it's just, it's just this, um, it's like kind of sitting there repressed in our subconscious, if you will. Um, I see it as self-honesty. It's, it's choosing to look at what's uncomfortable instead of just bypassing it. Um, we were talking earlier, the three of us, uh, it's not about darkness, it's about wholeness, you know? Um, I don't think of our shadow as something bad. It's, it helps us grow. It's, it tells us things about ourselves that we need to know. If we listen right as mediums, I believe. Um. Our shadow doesn't so much block our gifts as much as it influences and shapes them. Um, it's like every unhealed part of us, every, uh, suppressed emotion, every hidden belief. It all influences how we're receiving, interpreting, and delivering our intuitive information. You know, and this is what makes, uh, shadow work so important. To our continued growth as mediums doing. I, I guess okay, to like, just put this in a nutshell, doing shadow work, in my opinion, is about awareness. And in order to move forward, we must be aware of what's either blocking us or what's shaping us. I, I, that's how I would answer that. That is such a beautiful response and that just lends to so many more subtopics of this incredible conversation. I'm excited to. Get into it. Lorenda. So here, I I, spirit just gave me a really fun little analogy that I literally have never thought of until right now. Um, I see shadow work or shadow side of us as, yeah, it's just our unconscious part. But you know what, if you look at it as an analogy of, I, as you know, I'm a dance teacher and performer. The shadow is just the stuff waiting in the wings. Not every dancer can play every single part at all times in the spotlight. Sometimes it just has to wait in the wings until it's time. Wow. And when, when it's their time, it'll, they'll step into the spotlight. They'll have their moment, and maybe they go back to the shadows, may or maybe they go back to the wings. So it's just, I, I believe, looking at my life, if I'm zooming out, looking at my big, my, my entire picture. Is that there were things that needed to be in the forefront at certain points in my life so I can learn the lessons. And then at just the right cue, 5, 6, 7, 8. Hmm. Next week, next, next, next. Thing's coming up. Next part coming outta the wings. Here we come the next, the next part of the show. And then we incorporate that into the show. And at the end, at the end, everyone comes out for the big bow. Hmm. Right. Everyone gets seen at the very end, but not everybody's always in the spotlight all at once, and that, I believe that's how it is with our, whether it's our gifts, whether it's our traumas, whether it's our, whatever it is that's waiting in the wings to be seen. That's the shadow. Wow. Love that and how we incorporate that into our, into our, this thing we call life. I love that. Yeah. Great. One of the things I thought about when we, I was putting, when we were putting this together was how I believe my own shadow really propelled me forward on my journey early days. Of even doing this, moving into spiritual development, and that was because every anxiety is so interwoven, you know, with our nervous systems and often things under the surface that are brewing come in the form of anxiety. And I think it's a whole nervous system interplay here. And for me, at the, at that younger age, having anxiety, I had to deal with my shadow. My shadow was starting to call me and to say, I need to be looked at, I need to be recognized, I need to be healed. Um, and I need to be understood. So I couldn't go through business as usual, moving forward with my agenda to, and what I thought the life I was gonna have was going to. Come into shape, right? So I had to learn to deal with the parts of myself that were asking to be recognized, which was, there was fear, uncertainty and so on. And so it, it did hold with it. And that's why a lot of, I think people that are drawn into developing their abilities. Either for personal development or professional is because they, they have the, again, the weighting and the wings. I love that of your gifts, your abilities, your sensitivities are really intricately part of sometimes that shadow. And so repressing it or trying to fit into a mold that society gives us, you know, um, compresses everything, right? Mm-hmm. And so that's the gift spirit gives us is when we come and then we start intuitively working. We're shining light and we're healing. Yeah. So that's a reflection I had. Yeah. Now, Michelle, you had some. You actually, I think were just talking with your students last night about some Yeah. It's so crazy. Um, so, you know, um. I have to be honest, like when I first started working as a, a medium, I kept hearing about shadow work, but I honestly wasn't looking for it. And it was interesting how, um, it just started bubbling up and I have some theories on that maybe we could get to later. But, um, it's kind of like you start hitting a ceiling in your development or your progress and you have to. Just come to terms with, okay, I need to release some stuff here so that I can keep growing or at least look at it, that sort of thing. Um. So the first time that occurred for, for me personally, and I was having to look at my shadow work, I started investigating ways to help my students process some shadow work. And I'm not a trained therapist or anything like that, but I came across, um, a concept called bioenergetics. Um, and um, it's a practice that. I learned about it through, uh, Dr. Sue Morter, who she's written book, she's a, a speaker on the topic and so forth. But bioenergetic medicine describes the natural flow of life energy through the body. So in this concept, when source energy is moving freely through our body. We have physical health, emotional balance, you know, we're able to function and create effectively. When that flow is blocked, obviously then it disrupts. Communication between the body systems, like it interferes with our immune, our immune system, our hormonal system, our nervous system, and then that contributes to imbalance and illness. So Dr. Sue Morter, she is a medical doctor. She's looking at this more from a, a health, um, perspective, but, but like we were talking about earlier, like. If we have stuff blocking like that, blocking that flow, which is what we're trying so desperately to get into as mediums, then it can actually, I feel like it can kind of, um, influence, maybe block or influence how we're working as mediums. We have to look at this at some point. We just have to, if we wanna keep growing, right? So. The purpose of this bioenergetics is that, um, through awareness and practice, you start promoting grounding. So she actually has you ground with your breath to the earth and then you, you breathe that earth energy. Well, you bring, you bring in the source energy. I'm gonna get this backwards'cause I'm doing it off the top of my head here. But you bring in the source energy, you push it through the body into the earth. And then you bring it back up through the body and it just gets that flow moving. Right. Um. It's kind of like it, it's uh, uh, it just returns everything back to a, a natural state of self-regulation and healing. Right. I love it. I've used it. It's very meditative, if you will. Um, and she even, like you can find, um, recordings of her kind of talking you through it and the so and so forth. There's also, um, and I learned this from a student of mine in one of my development circles, who is a, um, certified. Uh, clinician. Um, and she uses a system called Brain Spotting, which, uh, was developed by David Grand. Um, it, it's like this body-based therapy that helps us process stored trauma by using eye position and attention and physical awareness, right? So, um, the idea is you. You notice where you consider where you are actually feeling the trigger that's showing up, right? So we get triggered, we're having this emotion, having all these feelings, and you, you ask yourself, where am I feeling that physically? Where am I feeling it? Um, he, I think one of the phrases he uses his or issues or in the tissues or something like that, right? Yeah. So you're, you're holding that and then you, you. Focus your awareness on where are your eyes positioned when you're noticing that, and then you hold your gaze in that position while staying present. And then you start using, um, the, it's like the, um, this helps this, this holding your gaze, considering where it is in your tissues that you're holding it. It helps us access parts of the brain where the trauma is stored beyond conscious thinking. Right, and I won't like go through all the, the steps with it. You can definitely look this up. But, um, there's also something about using. Alternator, alternating bilateral sound between the ears. Yes. Which immediately makes me think of binaural beats, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. But, um, anyway, it's, it's a method that we can certainly use. The bioenergetics, the brain spotting. And then just last night I was in another development circle that I was, uh, leading and they brought up something I had not heard of. Carrie had heard of it'cause I brought it up before we got started here, but it's, um, E-M-D-R-D-R. Yeah. EMDR. My, a student of mine was telling me about it. They're using it, she's using it in her therapy sessions right now, but I think it stands for something like, um, I, I movement desensitation reprocessing or something like that. I don't remember exactly, but again, um, it's helping people. Through eye movements basically process this, this traumatic information we have stored in us. But, um, to me, a lot of it, it, it's like these, it, to me, it correlates very much to meditation, which I think is another avenue we can use to help get to the, to the root of what is it that we're storing, where are we storing it, and how can we release it in a healthy way? How can we let it. Bubble up and let it go. Yeah. When we look at our bodies as we are the vessel, right? You are the container, you're the vessel. And, um, and so as you are coming into that frequency, if you're say, being conscious and you're coming in more into connection with spirit. And again, spirit shedding light upon you, those things that you have carried with you will begin to emerge. Yes. And this, this, we, we'll talk about this in the future a lot of times.'cause this is all connected to like past life trauma. Yeah. How we walk through this. I know NDA does this work. I mean it's absolutely incredible. What, what especially, it's so exciting that so many methods are being brought to the planet right now that are gonna help. I know. These things, which is incredible. Exactly. It's crazy. It's, yeah. Lorenda, what is your experience? What have you noticed even with students and things like that? I have noticed, so if I'm coming from a mediumship mentor point of view and being in the social spaces and, and doing all the things, living out loud, basically. Mm-hmm. Um, I'm finding that even just using myself as an example. That when I'm doing work where I am, um, doing, say I'm doing a reading, I, I have had, I had to process all of my stuff. I had to do my own work, my own shadow work. Whether that was through, you know, to me it's therapy's not just. Mind, it's mind, body, spirit, like you're really working on all three complexes of your, of your being. Right? And if you haven't done that work and you are working with a client and something comes in, then if you haven't done the shadow work, you can easily be triggered. It can send you into a spiral. And I've seen it, and I know I, I, I'm pretty sure I've talked about this on another podcast before. Um, but when. You get someone's loved ones who come in and they're saying, yeah, so talk about this situation that I went through, that the client, they're just trying to get me to say keywords to protect that client's privacy. You know, they, so I'm not seeing their actual trauma, right? I've got my spirit guide saying, Hey, talk about this really uncomfortable thing that you went through, but we know you're healed from now. If I'm not in a place where that has been healed. That could be extremely triggering. Yeah. Okay. Right. Yeah. And that I fully believe that's where, that, that shadow work, whether that's the, the really dark, you know, crazy suppressed stuff that they can, you know, could really break us if we allow it to. Um, or even the good stuff, things that we just haven't faced or things that haven't come up, um, that we haven't processed yet. If you, if you're not. If you haven't worked through some of that stuff, when you're doing mediumship and working with spirit and working with clients, you gotta be able to, you gotta be able to hold that space. I've seen people literally crash out in real time and have to go offline and not be seen for a few months'cause they, something has been triggered. Or you see those people that are crying when they're reading in a public space, like, oh, I can't believe you're going through this because they haven't done. Right. Their own work and something that Spirit has brought them or has triggered something. So I, I, I'm a big fan of doing the work and, and also even doing, I, I love when you were talking about all the, the brain spotting and all that, all that really cool things that you were talking about, Michelle. Yeah. When I'm doing multidimensional work, it's interesting. She's like, yes, spirit is bringing us different ways. Could process that. So when I'm doing multidimensional work through trance stuff, that's, that's my fancy term through trance stuff. Yeah. Higher self. Higher self as Dolores Canon labeled it. So just a subconscious, I'm connecting, we're working through those different layers of the dimensions and, and in zoning in on, let's find where this trauma's happening. Where's the block happening? Where or what is there? It just hasn't been unlocked yet. Yeah. And, and what, what can we open up for you to help you step into your best version of yourself? Because it's not always bad stuff. And you're going back to my waiting in the wings analogy. It's not always, Hmm. Necessarily bad stuff that's waiting in the wings. Oh, that's sweet. You have to be open and be ready to receive it, you know? And especially doing, especially doing spiritual work, it's okay to have aha moments, but you gotta be, you gotta have that negative stuff handled too. Yeah. I always feel like, I think we are like the best healers, the best, you know, mediums, the best support people when we have traveled that journey ourselves, you know, when we've had our own things that we've had to deal with. I was saying to some of my members last week, um, they were commenting on some of my guided journeys and my meditations, and I say one of the reasons is because I've walked through those shadow places myself, so I know I. How to hold the space and to give you that in an audio experience. So because I have traveled to every dark crevice that I'm, we're going to, and you know, I understand that journey so intimately and continue to, I also really love what you're saying so much, Loren, about. The timing of everything and, uh, how gifts don't always appear, you know, prematurely. Everything's very tied in. Right. It's synchronistic. Yeah. And the other thing we had mentioned, especially, you know, when you have a, like if you're doing practice readings or you're just starting to do this work and you, you're maybe doing a practice reading when someone comes in and they have exactly the issue you went through. That's like spirit's way of, first of all. Validating your experience, but also getting you to realize that this is also something too, and you having that experience can help that person tremendously as well from your own clarity and you know, a little bit of distance preferably. So I love that. Yeah, exactly. One thing I was gonna say is, this is going along with our spirit guides conversation, but I also feel like if, if you go back in. Make sure you as listeners go back and listen to our Spirit Guides episode as well. But one thing that my guides have really helped me with is, is looking at my shadow. I was gonna say that that's one thing that I think they've really helped, and this is you, the listener, can also start to work with your spirit guides to get support on this journey. Right. And I always say, I think what, this is one thing that I think goddesses are very good at, people talk about that they can help you on so many levels to be able to start to look at the parts of yourself that maybe you haven't always loved or embraced. Mm-hmm. You know? And things of that nature as well. You know, so I, I was thinking I can, I can almost hear the questions people have, you know, of like, what do I do? Where do I start? You know, what does, what does that look like? Right. I'd love to turn the attention to that.'cause I think it can be daunting. I can, I I think people have no, sometimes no idea where to start. And so, um. Do you guys have some recommendations, some tips? I know we talked about some methods, but things that have worked for you, your students, things like that when they're getting started looking at their shadow or embracing their shadow, Michelle? Um, I, okay. How do I, well, like I said, like through the meditative work that we've done with the bioenergetics and doing some brain spotting and that sort of thing, I, I honestly feel like I need to. Do more of it, and I think I want to even maybe, um, have a discussion with my circles, like my development circles so that we all can start working with this. Um, we have done some work in the past, honestly, that this is so crazy that this is coming up right now, that we're having this conversation right now, because just in the past couple of months I've been going through something. Okay. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I, I've been a, what I would consider to be a meta physician working with Metaphysical Law for decades now. Working on mastery of the mind, right? Practicing, um, responding to things instead of reacting to situations, learning to control my emotions so that I'm. Even and calm in all situations, which that's a little bit of a joke because I'm not, but at least I'm aware of it and trying. Right. Um, working on discernment instead of judgment. All the things like, I thought, I thought two months ago, if someone would've said, how are you doing on, um, your shadow work and your. If your mastery of the mind, I would say, I, I understand it. I'm working on it. It's adequate work, you know, that sort of thing. I, I'm all about it. I know what I'm doing. And then about two months ago, I hit a ceiling in my growth as a medium. I just felt like I was bumping up against the ceiling. I, I was like, what is going on? What, what's happening? And I, I found myself, I was getting really triggered by. Just silly things. Silly things that just kept triggering me beyond what I feel like I should have been, um, getting upset by these things. Right? And so I finally realized, I thought, oh my gosh, I, um. This block that I'm having, this hitting the ceiling. I realize this, first of all is part of the shadow work that I wasn't getting to for whatever reason, but it, I also took it as a sign of growth. So I feel like when these things come up, it's like this, it's like the universe saying, Hey, look, you're growing. You're filling that vessel. The picture, like I always think of it as like this picture, right? And we're filling it up with this love and light to raise our vibration, and there's all this. The sediment at the bottom, so the more we're filling it up, that sediment's bubbling up. It maybe doesn't all bubble up at one time. Like NDAs saying it's, you know, waiting in the wings. I, I love NDAs analogies by the way. Mm-hmm. It's waiting in the wings, you know, and it comes up a little bit at a time. And even though I was going around thinking, man, I've got this. I know my shadow work. I'm doing it. A big bunch of that stuff bubbled up lately. And um, you know, we were talking before we started the recording, um, NDA doesn't cry very much. I don't cry hardly ever. It must be a. Fire sign thing. I just rarely cry. And in the past two months, I have been crying over some of this stuff coming up. Things I haven't thought about in 30 years. I haven't thought about them. Um, so I, I guess what I would say, like how could you, what advice would I give my students in this work? Um, it's never, uh, it's never a bad idea to. Find a counselor who's really good at helping you through it. Um, it's, um, obviously there are all these different practices we can do along the lines of meditation, um, the bioenergetics exercises, the brain spotting, the all the things, right. Um, but I think what I would say is to remember that when it does bubble up, it's a good sign. Because it's a sign of growth and, and to know that this isn't a one and done thing, like you don't get to the finish line of shadow work. This is forever a practice. It's a practice. And some days we'll get it and some days. It'll be like, dang, this is hard. But it's always good. That's how I see it. It's always a good thing. That is so beautiful. Thank you. And also, thank you for sharing the fact that you are also struggling. I think it's really important. I think we all do that. That you wanna be transparent. Yeah. Um, being able to share that. We, you, you still, you're human, so you're still gonna show. Yeah. Lorenda. So I've got another analogy. Yeah. We're gonna stay in the, we're gonna stay in the performing arts. Yes. So, first and foremost, if you're having problems, go to therapy. Right. Start mundane before magical. Monday before magical start with that Earth stuff. Whatever you're facing in, in real time, all the things around you so you can learn how to manage it. Put it in its appropriate boxes and its appropriate vessels. Deal with it one at a time. Let things flow through. Then, you know,'cause and honestly, I did EMDR. You were talking about that. Yeah, we were talking about that before we started and, and it, it occurred to me and I had said to you, well, it didn't, it didn't work for me. And I can tell you why. One, it made my eyes dry out. I was like, my eye, my contacts are drying out in my eyeballs. I guess I should contacts out. So it became a physical distraction. But first and foremost, I didn't trust the therapist doing it. Oh, interesting. Tell you why. Because I someone new and I immediately sat down and it was in my, I'm gonna be authentically me era. And I said, well, I'm a psychic medium. And, and I said a couple other things and, and I told her also. She was like, well, why do you think you're so stressed out? I'm like, well, our political climate have you, I don't know if you've looked around lately. And then she's like, I don't understand why it's a problem. So I didn't trust her immediately subconsciously, right. So I didn't, I don't know that it would've worked on me even I was already there. We were trying it, it didn't work. So trust is huge. But I'm gonna go back to my dance analogy. So. When children in dance are go through a growth spurt, well tell'em, just so you know, you can have the best turns, you can have the best pirouettes on the planet, you can do eight in a row. The day you grow is the day that you lose all those turns because your center of gravity shifts. Interesting and. It's okay. You didn't become a terrible dancer. You didn't just lose it. You didn't forget how to dance. You didn't forget how to pull up into your posse. I am saying all these dance terms. I know all my dancers in the house are gonna be like, I know what she means when we tell them specifically to do certain physical things. Suddenly their mind and body just are not connecting because there's been a growth spurt. There's been a change in their body. Yeah. And as spiritual people, we also look at it and go, oh, it also affects like our etheric body. Right? And, and, and then that changes our mental body because then things are not connecting and we don't know what the heck is happening. So everything is thrown off. And even down to, I kid you not you guys, when. We can always tell when the kids went to get their braces tightened because they can't turn for anything. That's amazing right there. Yeah. Their balance is off everything, and all of a sudden they're, wow. I was dealing with a kid just last night. I love this kid and she. All of a sudden went back to everything that I told her not to do back in August. Right. Everything that she'd been working so diligently and was looking so good all of a sudden yesterday it was that kid that I, that was in August. I'm like, who are, oh, you grew And I, every time that happens, when they are way off, I'm like, stand next to me. Wow. Going out to them. You grew. You have gone through ghost rides and I'll say, and they'll like, no, I don't think I have. I'm like, your shoes are a little tight, aren't they? Are your, uh, uh, let's look at, let's look at the length of those pants you're wearing right now. I feel like you probably grew and, and they have started understanding that, uh, especially, especially the short kiddos like myself, um, that when they are. Thrown off, they'll be like, wait, maybe I'm going through a growth spurt. Yeah. So they're able to embrace it as change, but maybe everything else feels like it has regressed. Maybe they feel like they've regret, they're no longer good dancers, where now they can go, oh. I'm doing a growth spurt. Step one step closer to becoming a Rockette. Hello. Yeah, so changing their mindset and then embracing the change and understanding that our bodies sometimes need to heal. They need to change, they need to evolve, and sometimes that other stuff on the fringes just have to sit and simmer for a bit and wait, and that's okay. Grief is another version of that. And when, when you are going through grief. Especially if you see a medium that's going through grief or maybe they had a major life of he, of people that had nothing to do with mediumship or spirit. They're just, life is in a situation and they can, they're having a hard time connecting. Mm-hmm. They don't understand spirit a certain way. It's because they have to go through the mundane. Before they can do the magical, we've gotta get through that grief because our mind, body, and spirit energies are no longer aligned in the way that we're used to them being. So that that is shadow to me. That is just that that's being revealed and that is coming in. And when you go through those changes. The things that we were used to doing are now going to be disrupted. And we then the shadow work is how do we integrate it? Yes. How do we make both things exist at the same time? Mm-hmm. How do we make a kid who's getting taller mm-hmm. Still understand how to connect their posse, engage their core, and expand their back and nail those turns. While keeping their tongue in their mouth, like how, how do we teach them to do that and then still also smile and perform at the same time the things that they were already doing. It's shadow work is a it to me that that's the analogy. Thank you Dr. Mike, my doctor. Yeah. For our guides. That was an amazing analogy. I love the idea of, it's almost like it's a new education of a whole new experience integrating those things into your life. That's incredible. And that's the shadow work. The shadow work is not just, it's happening. It's how do we integrate it into what we already know and do. That's right. Beautiful. Into this present day. I love these examples. Beautiful. The first thing I thought of, of course, is to yes, absolutely find a really good mental health professional to start with that, and then also. If you are on your development journey if you can find a friend or two who can then reflect back to you what you may be going through that you're having a hard time seeing. I was gonna say that's one of the things that both of you help me with so much is when I'm struggling in my own growth and development, I'm like, I don't know which way is up right now. I can't see what's happening. Can you tell me what's going on or reflect back to me? If that is one of the most grounding things is someone who won't judge you and someone who will hold space for you and can see probably the things you can't see, because that's one thing. Shadows will sometimes lend itself to distortion. Of self. Of the self. And so like knowing, or you have a good teacher who can say, Hey, you've grown, you know, and to remind you of what is true. Some of the things we wrote down before for which I think can help people are these things is, is when you're noticing these reactions, like what you talked about, Michelle, you're reacting to things, is just begin to. Be gentle with yourself and notice your projections. Like what are you consistently reacting to? So let's say for example, you are trying to tune into your intuition, right? And every time you do it, you hear this little voice say something unpleasant to you. Just observe it, notice it, you know, take, take note of it. And also journaling is a big part of that. Being able to see what is happening outside of yourself. I think that's a big part. And there are, the good thing is there are so many ways you can get journal prompts on shadow work, and again, it's just about understanding illumination integration. Body awareness is a big part of it. What we talked about today is like understanding where am I holding this? Is it in my neck, my shoulders? Do I feel my throat shutting down? You know, do I feel my, my stomach is a knot? Things like that. And again, the more compassion you bring to yourself in this, you really do balance these parts of yourself. And then you also, it'll give you a voice to be able to express it, which is integration, which is what. Lorinda ISS speaking about so beautifully. And then a big thing is just compassionate, a compassionate witnessing. I think that's a huge part of just holding space for yourself and others, knowing that we each go through these things and it's a part of our human journey, and it's not about perfection and it is about kindness and integration. I really feel that. Yeah. So as we're, um, moving to the end of this episode, which has been amazing, again, of course I love being with you guys. Yes. And we'll definitely have some book recommendations at the end to share with you.'cause I know I can hear people asking these questions. Where should we start? Um, do you have any final thoughts on this, Michelle, that you would share with our audience and listeners? Oh, wow. You know, um. It, it's interesting. I feel like we've covered so much, uh, already. I, I, I don't know that I have any final thoughts. What I can say is I personally am still exploring and trying to figure it out for myself. Um, the first step is just awareness. Being aware that. We have a shadow and that it's okay. And when things start coming up, to be honest and look at it and, uh, don't just push it back down. You know, let it let it bubble up. Philip. Let it, let it be, let it be there. Yeah. Yeah. I love that so much. And Lorenda, I think just looking at it, it, sometimes it's just a matter of, of how we. Perceive it? Is the shadow an exciting surprise or is it something dark and scary? Is it something that can, what if? What if it's the perfect partner waiting in the wings to come out and you're gonna like be showstoppers and get the standing ovation? Or is it like that show Steeler that's gonna come out and steal your spotlight? How do you embrace. The positive side of it is like, what can I big di spiritual bypassing can be a thing, but we're not talking about that. We're talking about taking. On these things that we could be perceived as negative, as dark, as shadow like and going, I wonder what's next? I wonder what is waiting in the wings for me next that I'm going to learn? And if you can stay open to that mind, body, and spirit and recognize when things are off, when something is off, when you're feeling blocked, learning how to go. Am I looking in the wings scared of what's gonna come out? Or am I ready to embrace it and be its partner? Hmm. Amazing. Sweet. That gives me, that just reminds me of that movie with an Alan Alda parenting, I think, and he played this father in this role where he, he, he was uptight, he held onto everything. Right. And there's an image of him. Sitting down and watching. No, that was Steve Martin. Forgive me. So, and he is watching his daughter on stage and bombing, you know, she's a young girl and she's like doing everything you know, that you're not supposed to do on stage at like this elementary school performance. And he's just like, ah, everything's falling apart. And all of a sudden he had a rush of spirit letting go and just enjoying the chaos, the ride, the shadow, the whole thing, right? Because that's all part of our experience. Two things before we finish this incredible episode. The first thing is I'm gonna recommend a few books. I'll put everything in the show notes for everyone to view. The first one is one that's very well known to a lot of people, and that's Women Who Run With The Wolves by Clarissa Pink Estes. I love that. Yeah. Incredible. And I love her and everything about. Everything. And she's also a Jungian analyst writing, so that's what we're talking about. Carol Jung. The Body Keeps the Score. Now I know this is a really well-known book and getting really a lot of popularity, and essentially that's understanding how shadow lives in your body, and that's by Bestel Van K. Then owning Your Own Shadow by Robert A. Johnson, which is probably also going with Young's framework as something more short, clear, and direct. And then finally, we have Meeting The Shadow by Connie Swig and Jeremiah Abrams. And again, all these resources can be found in the show notes. I wanna say thank you both so much. This was an incredible episode. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. It was fun. Be sure you guys to comment and share our podcast. We are growing and we love hearing back from you'cause we have more episodes in the works. We'd love to hear what you'd like to know more about. We wanna thank you so much again and friends. I can't wait to be with both of you in the next episode. Yes, same. Love you guys so much. Love you both. Love you too. Bye-Bye. Bye.