Michael Dominguez: Time to Change the Narrative

If you’re ready to hear what real progress sounds like, this episode is for you. 

Hear from the President & CEO of ALHI and one of our industry’s leading-edge thought leaders, Mr. Michael Dominguez.  Michael brings forward-thinking clarity to where our industry is headed and what real progress looks like today in an ever-changing landscape. His perspective is sharp, refreshing, and shaped by years of guiding our industry through both calm and chaos.  Get ready for a conversation that will stay with you long after the episode ends.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome to Insight Live podcast where we talk with top professionals in the meetings and events industry, sharing insider knowledge and perspectives. Whether you're experienced or just starting out, this is your go-to podcast for Event Industry Wisdom. Each episode will dive into challenges, trends, and strategies for success. So get ready to level up your skills. This is Inside Live. Hello, friends. Today I've got a very special guest. If you're in the meetings and events industry, this man really needs no introduction. And honestly, if you're outside the industry too, you know he probably doesn't either. It's Michael Dominguez, and he is one of those rare figures who not only understands this business inside and out, but he shapes it. Okay, his insight and his leadership and his straight talk have made him one of the most trusted voices in hospitality. Now he's a thought leader and he's a sought-after keynote speaker precisely because he spent years not just studying the industry, but moving it forward. It's what he does. So Michael is the president and CEO of Ali Global Events, the ownership firm behind some of the world's most recognized names in luxury hospitality. He's deeply involved, I should say, in leadership across the field. He served on executive committees for the U.S. Travel Association and the Meetings Mean Business Coalition. Look, he's a regular voice on topics ranging from disruption and the economy to behavioral trends. This man is the future of how we gather. And it's my privilege to welcome Michael Dominguez. Thank you for being here, sir.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Thank you so much. And that's quite an introduction. Thank you. Well, it's possible.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

It's we have people that that that are part of the industry. They speak about it. There's experts. And then there's the people, the rare people who have shaped our experience, our shared experience. All of us in the industry know um what it's like to have someone like that and have an honor, the honor of just speaking with you. So I'm not blowing smoke up your uh blazer there.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Well, I appreciate it. I'll I'll tell you, I give all that credit to my mother because she raised me as if you're gonna be in, be in. And if you're in, you're in with both feet and not only up to your knees, up to your neck. And it's the only way I know how to do it. So that's that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

And that's that's precisely the state I found you in at IMEX, by the way. I saw you at IMEX and you were up into your neck, but you still made time to shake my hand, say hello. I love that about you, Michael. You're accessible still, even though you're probably one of the most busiest men uh at IMAX that that week was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

I appreciate you know, you know, it's funny you say that. I I actually made the comment uh to one of my team members that um IMAX, I probably feel more guilty leaving IMAX than any other show I do because I said I never am able to give the people the time they deserve because it is this five minutes. Yeah, you know, and it's like, yeah, I was able to shake your hand and say hello. I wanted to have a conversation, and you just don't have time to have the deep conversations when it's that quick. And the fact that I feel guilty means I still approach it the right way, you know, that's right because you want to give people the right time. So it was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

I knew shaking your hand that we were gonna have this moment today. So I was so grateful that you shook my hand, remembered me. It just says a lot about you, Michael. So let's just jump right in. Okay, state of the industry and leadership signals. Okay, let's just let's just kind of set some ground rules here. Um, is let's uh let's just do some like uh I don't want to call them softballs, but let's just kind of start this off. You you're someone who's uh you've sat at the crossroads of hospitality, travel, and meetings for years. What's top of mind for you right now? What is keeping you up, or should I say, what is exciting you the most in the industry right now? Either way, however you want to approach it.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Yeah, I like the exciting because it's um the funny thing is I always say nothing keeps me up at night. I sleep well. Um, I really do. And my and my aura ring tells me it takes me about three minutes to fall asleep. So sleep well and I can hit my deep sleep. Um, but what excites me, there's a lot that excites me about the industry. I think we're one of the things I've mentioned is you know, we just experienced what I I like to frame as the great pause. And this great pause came between April and July, where everybody tightened up and it became because of the announced Liberation Day tariffs and what that could mean. And we saw it's you know, we saw it shock the market, we saw it shock different economies, it it shook our business because you saw group actually decline for about four months as everybody was pausing to figure out what was going to happen. And what we're finding, and why I'm optimistic, we've come to the other end of it, and what we're finding is actually everything's okay, and things are pretty good. And if we can get past the emotion of this chaotic time frame, I'm looking at we had a GDP in our country of 3.8% in Q2, and the Atlanta Fed is estimating a 3.9% GDP for Q3, which means our economy is doing well, and it doesn't mean we don't have headwinds, but I think where I have a saying, Timothy, is that how we feel is how we behave. And what was really encouraging for me is that back between April and if you got to June, you had CEOs mention during earnings calls uh when they were reporting to the street the word recession over 450 times. Uh, between June and August, it's now 70. You don't have CEOs screaming recession anymore. And that's important because again, how we feel is how we behave. How CEOs feel is how they behave. They're getting more optimistic about what the future looks like. And you know, we're a broad membership-based um independent hotels specifically, large resorts. And what you're finding is all of our hotels are telling us the same thing the in the year for the year for fourth quarter, the short-term business on the group side, it's kind of popping right now. So we're coming out of the pause, and people are now booking some of that business that had just been sitting there for a while. And we're talking about really short windows, really tight windows. We're hearing it across the board. Oh, yeah. And then 26, everybody is talking about a record backlog. We have a record on the books going into 26. Oh, did I mention FIFA's here next year? So you're looking at a really compressed year for us. And if everything holds the way it is right now, I think 26 is going to be a rocking year for us as an industry overall. And and I think a lot of that is going to come uh flowing back. And you mentioned the leadership side of it. I always tell people, as leaders, it's it's our responsibility to try to cut through the noise. And um, Secretary or president, the Fed president of the Cleveland Federal Reserve, her name is uh President Hammock. She was on CNBC and she said this brilliantly. She said, It's a great time to have your noise reduction headphones on. And I think that's important for a leader. Cut out the noise. And as I tell people, something that has served me well, I don't get over my skis. I look at the data for what the data is. And there's this great quote by John Chambers when he used to run Cisco. He was the CEO of Cisco, says, deal with the world the way it is, not the way you want it to be. And I think sometimes there's too many leaders that don't like the data the way it's being presented. And either you want to wallow in a little more sorrow and the data's not telling us that, or you're being Pollyanna and the data is telling you you shouldn't be. But sometimes we're not dealing with the world just the way it is. And I think if you can pay attention to what the data points are telling you, you'll be much better served as a leader because I always say, remove your emotion and tell me what the data says. Remove your opinion and tell me what the data says. And the data should be guiding your decision and your discussion moving forward. That will serve you well in this time frame.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Well, I like your optimism, and I think it's definitely served. I'm seeing it like you just said, um, in in my indicator, in my market indicators in the audiovisual space, we're seeing some in great indicators for 26. So, you know, this is backed, like you said, it's backed by data. Um, people are and and now the emotions are starting to follow the data, which is great. And I love that you don't shy away from from talking about some of these like real life hard-hitting topics. I mean, I asked you about the state of it. You went right for it. The the uh the tariffs, right? Right for the you went right for it and uh liberation day. And thank you. Thank you for your honesty. I think that's what makes it so refreshing to speak with you.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

No worries at all.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Well, okay, let's talk about something else because um we're talking about you know, trends, leadership industry, kind of setting the template. You and I had a conversation recently. We you talked about the wellness trend that maybe there's a loose thread in the fabric of it. And as we look at 26, can you talk a little bit? Can you expand on that? Um, what are you can you unpack like the center of gravity uh for planners, you know, uh when it comes to wellness and incorporating it into their future plans?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yeah, I think it was interesting because we're getting prepped for one of our larger meetings, and um, we have a steering committee and a lot of heavy corporate planners there in some associations, and we're getting ready and we're talking about what are what is, and this is why we bring a steering committee together. We try to make our content relevant and fresh to that audience that comes in, but we're asking them what's being talked about in your boardroom? What's being talked about in your organizations? Like, what are the hottest topics that you're trying to solve for? And we went through you know a day and a half of meetings and wellness never came up. And we asked the question so, how much are you guys talking about wellness and how much does it fall in? And it didn't. They all shook their heads, like it doesn't, but we got into a deeper discussion. It doesn't mean that wellness doesn't matter. I think where we've landed is wellness is an expectation. It's not that it doesn't matter today. We just expect to be able to have wellness woven into the fabric of the meeting, but it I don't know if it necessarily has to be called out. And and the way I kind of reference that, Timothy, to me, it's it's sustainability 15 years ago. We don't talk about sustainability as much when we're in the meeting, but we expect it to be woven through every piece of the meeting as a fabric of the meeting. We know sustainability is important and it needs to be a part of it. We now know wellness and health and wellness is important and needs to be part of that fabric. So I I I always caution when I say that it doesn't mean that wellness wasn't important. I saw it as a positive in that we've moved far enough that we know that people need to to have a little bit uh of that wellness as part of their overall experience. And and I I think too many times when we talk about wellness, it's about it's about the yoga, it's about the food, it's about those pieces. What we try to do when we build our our you know, our programming for our events, and I think certain people miss this, we make sure there is plenty of white space in the agenda. You want to talk about wellness, give me some time to breathe. And what I see are agendas that go from eight to eight, and we're supposed to enjoy that. And and what I have learned, if you want people's full attention, if you want them present in the meeting, if you really want them present, make sure that, and we do this in our meetings. I am crushing a bunch of content from about eight until after we're done with lunch, maybe two o'clock, but then they are free from two to six. And because they know that, they are completely present with us because they know they got plenty of time to go check emails. If they need to make a phone call, they're gonna be able to do it. They know it's there, they don't feel this anxiety. Like I need to do it now because I'm gonna have no time during the day. So I think it is a really important lesson for us to learn. The more free time you can build in, the more quality time you will have them while you have them in the room. And that's a wellness piece I think we're missing because the biggest part to wellness to me is stress and anxiety. And when you're away from home and you're away from work, your anxiety is already elevated and your stress levels are elevated if you think you don't have enough time to keep up with everything. I think that is one of the simplest things we can do to really start to weave in a little bit of mental wellness into our programming.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

See, Michael, and this is the thing that you do that you're so good at is you turn things on it on their head, you do the paradigm flip. Because for for many people, wellness was like maybe the silver bullet that was like gonna, you know, gonna drive decision makers, just like lead certification might have been for decision makers, right? Now it's expected. I love what you just said. Um, yeah, I I know I need to run on my treadmill today. I know I need to get on the treadmill and walk 30 minutes. I know I need to do those things. You've packed me in here from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. I'm not gonna get to do that. Don't talk to me about wellness if I'm not gonna be able to make, you know, and then call and then do FaceTime my cats because I'm worried about them, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

That that is awesome. And and you know, it's also let led into the trend when you see it. It's the reason we're drinking less as a society. And and I tend to joke because all the ratings Gallup has been surveying since 1945, all adults, and only 54% of adults think that any drinking is appropriate from a health and wellness perspective. And it's the lowest score ever that we've seen. And I always joke, yet our industry plants parties like it's 1999. Um, we've got to think through that. And if you're really in if you're really impressing wellness, then we shouldn't have open bars and hosted bars that are three hours long. That's not healthy, you know. But a two-hour bar is probably sufficient when it's done.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

I love that. And then, you know, um, honestly, you know, I'm I'm I'm following this trend also. I'm being very careful about what I'm putting in my body, and alcohol is one of the first things. It's like low-hanging fruit. I can get rid of it. Um, the other thing is though, you know, in the afternoon, sometimes now people are wanting coffee and they're not seeing that option. So that was something that was like important. Um, that I came up at at IMAX was everyone was was standing in lines at Columbia's booth to get afternoon coffee.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

It's so true. Coffee shot, and we all know coffee is healthy with for you as long as you're not putting all the sweeteners in the creams and everything else in it. You know, and and I've actually taken a year to that point, Timothy. I've taken over the last year to work out any kind of cream in my coffee. I now drink it black with a single stevia uh in it, and all the health benefits I'm now gaining because the health benefits are in black coffee. Um, the more we add into it, the more we're taking the benefits away from it. But I'm doing that from a health perspective.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

So, all you meeting planners listening, you know, how about that uh that happy hour kicks off with a coffee bar too, you know, espresso machine?

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Um I'll I'll even take an espresso martini if you're gonna do drinks. You know, we will at least work it in there somewhere, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

So, okay, so let me last question on this topic uh of wellness. Um, if wellness isn't the silver bullet, if that's not what are people chasing? Is it the the autonomy that you just talked about, the the liberty, the the free time? What are people chasing right now? Or what should they be chasing when they're planning their initiation their events?

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Well, that it's twofold. And it is the free the free time, having enough of it. Um, the other thing is that we're really looking as how do we create environments that are truly engaging for people to connect and communicate? Um, and I'll give you an example. It's something that I I'm always trying to impress, even in our own meetings, is that when I'm having a reception, uh I need the music to be down a few notches. If we are screaming at each other, trying to be heard, the point of the reception is to actually network and engage and really be intentional with people. And yet we tend, we've all been to them. And I always go and my my events team knows they're always like, is it too loud? And I'm like, it needs to be a little more background, a little louder than background music, but not so loud that I am screaming over everybody to have if it's a concert, go for it. If you're at a networking reception or a dinner, I shouldn't be screaming to have a conversation with everybody. And and something, Timothy, we talked about it, you know, my love for the Spurs, and we talked a little bit about this culture and what they do. By accident, we actually exposed this in one of my meetings uh recently because I had talked about it during a leadership talk. And I said, one of the things they're so intentional with the Spurs that they're known for these team dinners. When they're on the road, most teams, after a road game, they jump on a plane and they go home. The Spurs know they will stay overnight. They will have a team dinner, it's mandatory, they'll have a signed seating. Popovich has gone ahead of time to arrange the tables, pick the menu, pick the wine, and it's about engaging as human beings. And that's what makes them so special. But one of the things he does that I think we need to bring into our environment, they do not allow a table to be more than six people ever. Because when you get past six, the conversations become conversations of two and three. And by accident, just the way the room laid out at this program that we put on, uh, we were at our Sun Seeker Hotel in Florida. My table was only six people. And at the end of it, you know what we were all saying? Like, holy cow, that actually works. We had a table conversation the entire evening. There were no two-offs, there were no one-offs, because the table, and we, you know, all hotels have six-foot rounds and eight-foot rounds. Yes, as far as tables. We could do a six-foot round that could max out at eight, seat those for six where we have the room. I do realize not all rooms have that capability, but where you can, that is what we're trying to really gain in the experience. Where you can build huge, you know, really deep human connections and have conversations that matter instead of it being so superficial because I didn't even hear what you said because I'm deaf in this ear, um, because I'm too close to the speaker, you know, that type of thing. I just think these are the things we have to think about. And if you find yourself screaming and you are the organizer, it's your meeting. Please go tell the band to turn the the turn down the volume. Yes. And I do think little things like that are kind of where we're at. I I I like to phrase it this way. We came out of the pandemic and it was all about meeting again, and we were learning how to meet again. Um, I think we're in this time frame of let's not forget why we're meeting. It's about the human engagement and it's about connecting us with a common humanity. And that is what we should be focused on. The rest of it will take care of itself.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

I like what you're saying because you've you've already said um, you know, in order to get the free time, to bake free time in, then you need to really refine your content, get it high quality so that people get the most out of that for, like you said, that 8 to 2 p.m. 8 to 3 p.m. And then it's not like a lot, nothing is lost. In fact, you've gained, you've gotten a better, tighter um content, right? Time right and people get that that wellness time to themselves. And now you just talked about really uh focusing in on on the where the way the intimacy at a networking, getting people able to connect with each other. So you're just this is refining, this is refinement. I hope people are paying attention and jotting down notes.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah, Timothy, we didn't even mention, like on the content side, you know, outside of some certain themes that I might want around a keynote on my bigger meeting that's a three-day meeting, the rest of the content, I don't start tightening it up until 90 days out. And and the reason I say that, how do you how can you tell me what's relevant six months from now? Oh wow. And if you think about this, last year would have been a great example. I can use MPI as an example. So yeah, and I'm making it up. You're you're an MPI chapter, you've planned out your education for January, February, March, April. Great. Planned it all out. Um, and you planned that out in November, December. We didn't see the tariff issue coming that was coming. So you're telling me in April, what what are we going to be talking about when everybody wants to talk about what does this mean? What does all of this mean? You know, and that just happened on this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

So, so on this podcast, topics that we were looking at AI, we wanted to talk about AI, we want to talk about you know these trends, and then it was like this was simmering at the top. This is what everybody was thinking about. And I'm interviewing people on AI, and I'm that's not what I'm worried about in January. That's not what I was worried about. I didn't care about AI.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

I mean, I did, but it yeah, and I say that without criticism, Timothy. It's it's how we've always done it. But I I like to know, okay, these are some themes, and we kind of have people on hold, but tell them we're gonna place you where it makes sense. We just want your commitment that we're gonna have you in. But on a bigger meeting, it's easy, it's the same thing. Like, what should we be talking about? So, for instance, on my meeting coming up at the Dominican Republic, um, I have the head of housing for FIFA coming to talk to us. Because I think it would be important for everyone to understand what does World Cup mean to us right as a meeting society? What should we be thinking of? How does it flow? What's the breakdown? Again, that's a really relevant topic, knowing that FIFA is around the corner in six months from that time frame. That's how we try to keep it really relevant and fresh.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Nice, Michael. I I love the way that this is why you're a thought leader. Um, this seems like a good time to transition a little bit from um surface level things, uh state of the industry things. I want to talk about something that you've been um, you've been kind of uh shaping this discussion around. Uh, and we're gonna get into some DEI. Um we're gonna get into that. But before we do that, what does it mean? Because you've been talking about uh a distinction between demographics and psychographics. Can you walk us through that? What is changing in how we understand our audiences?

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Yeah, I I think it's really important. Like, you know, I'm I'm old enough that from a marketing perspective or a sales and marketing perspective, demographics were it was the gold. And what I mean by that is, you know, before before technology, Timothy, I needed, I needed to know you're a 55-year-old white male living in the Midwest. And I could tell you what your buying habits look like based on your income levels and what that looks like. We grouped everybody by demographic. It had to do with geography, and it had to do with age and income and and gender. Now, the reason I say I don't think demographic matters, the change that is technology. It has flattened the world. Now, the geography used to matter. It doesn't matter when we're universally connected through technology today. Geography is non-existent. And more importantly, when you hear me talk about psychographic, I think we live in an age because of technology. If we study the behavior and not the age, you will cover every age group. Because I think the mistake is we talk about Gen Z, like all Gen Z's are all the same. Millennials, like all millennials, are the same. Xers, like all the Xers, are the same. And the truth of the matter today is that you're going to have millennials, Gen Z, and Xers and Boomers that all have the same behavior and the same light. I'll give you an example. If I like the outdoors and I like hiking, I could be any age group. But that puts me into a behavior, not an age. And if I focus on the behavior, let's say I'm a resort in Yosemite and this is what I want to promote. I if I focus on the people that love this behavior, I cover every age group. It's no longer about your demographic, it's about your psychographic. If I like gaming, that does not make me 20 years old. By the way, your biggest group in gamers are near 40. I'm a huge gamer. I'm in my 40s. Yeah. That's my point. But most people think of kids. When you think of gaming, you think of kids. And that is because we break things into a demographic versus psychographic. And if I look at psychographic, and gaming's always a great one because one of the fastest growing segments of gamers is females, but we all think it's very male-dominated. It's not. Some of the biggest, some of the biggest people on Twitch are females.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

The influencers are females, yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Without a doubt. I know that because I pay attention to it. So my point is that's a great example. If I study the behavior, I will cover every gender, every age group because it's about the behavior. And that's what I mean by psychographic versus demographic.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

That's incredible. And that's going to translate into uh the way you design an event, right? Event design. Exactly. Thinking about psychographics as opposed to demographics. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

And I think we get too stuck on age groups versus just understanding, let's focus on the behaviors, and I should be able to take care of everybody.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yeah, you I would my next question was going to be like, what do we miss? But you've covered that. Like if we just focus on on demographics, we miss everything. We miss the point.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

We miss half the audience, right? You really do. It's a swing and a miss. It leaves it a little bit hollow, just not completely full.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

You've said, I think you've said this before that behavior tells the truth faster than surveys. I think that's that's a Michael quote. Um, can you give an example of a recent shift that surprised you besides gaming in the industry uh in planning and events?

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Uh I don't know if anything's caught me off guard. It continues to evolve. Yes. Um, you know what I do find right now is you know, we we got into a big gamification with apps, and I but I do think what's a little bit of a surprise is the lack of participation around the gamification. And we think it's cool, but you're gonna have the same top 10 listed every event because it's the same top 10 people that are really into it while the other group isn't. And that's a surprise to me because you thought we're trying to make, and we always say we're trying to be engaged, we're trying to make it engaging. This is why we did this, but that is a perfect example also that ties back in, Timothy, to the psychographic versus demographic. There's only a small audience that's telling me in those meetings, there's only a small audience that are into the games, yeah. You know, and we may think it we may think it's old school, but maybe they want a traditional icebreaker. Um, we did this we did this recently at an event and it was a hit because it was all a music theme. We were in Austin, so of course, music city. So we had a music theme, everybody got to pick their own vinyl. Uh, they got record players, you know, that we sent to their houses afterwards. Um, but what I thought was really cool is everybody on their name tag had the very first uh uh very first concert they ever saw. And it was the best icebreaker. Wow, because people were walking around and saying, No way, that was my first one, or you really went to go see that, you know, it was that conversation. Yeah, that's old school, but everybody participated. You know, everybody's been to some live concert or live music event. You know, that is an easy one to be able to connect with. So that's a little bit of an example that maybe sometimes old school or analog, and I will tell you, all research is telling us Gen Alpha right now, yes, they're the analog generation, they want to disconnect in a big way like we've never seen. And what I'm really getting encouraged, and I think we have to pay attention to the trends. I just saw a report about the percentage of school children that they can't even have phones at school anymore. Schools get banned. Schools are banning it. Yes. So, what's that gonna do to their behavior when we thought everybody was so accessible to it? And then you take it one step further. Parents are limiting the time at home. Parents are getting restrictive.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Does that mean that uh kids are gonna get notes in their lockers again? Like the old, the old drop a note of my life. That'd be so cute. I hope it does come back. And then look at you and I. We you and I have our wired earbuds in, and that's like what Jane Alpha is wearing too. Like they're just getting they're getting away from like Bluetooth and all this connectivity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Well, well, here's the other thing, too. Let's talk, let's go back to health and wellness. You know why I'm wearing these? Talk to me. Those those little earbuds. Um, and I was just hearing today the reason where rare earth metals metals matter so much, and we're hearing it in the news. Um, every one of those earbuds has a really powerful magnet. Those magnets are really bad energy uh for our eardrums long term. And it's not even about the volume, it's about an amount of energy that's being emitted through those things. I was reading an article that um it was a doctor talking about what our level should be of energy transmission versus what it is within our ear canal. And I I went to these, I just went a little bit old school, uh, but it's better for you long term from a health perspective.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

There's those psychographics coming in. People are concerned about their health. It hasn't really that can transcend generations, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Without a doubt.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Okay, so let's let's let's kind of let's kind of change gears here a little bit because that was really that's a lot, and there's so much. I hope, like I said, I hope I'm gonna I maybe I might even re-retweak the intro to this one and just maybe say get your notepads out if you're listening this time, because you're not gonna get a chance to drink from this fountain ever again, maybe. Uh no, you're very accessible. But let's talk about something. Um, I want to let you define a term. I'm gonna say two words. Okay, I'm gonna let you define what this means to you. Okay. Conscious inclusion.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Yeah, I laugh because it's kind of where we're headed. And you know, we um we started with this conversation that uh I I'm I'm highly involved with ASAE, and ASAD made this announcement that they were moving away from a DEI, an initiative, and moving into a conscious inclusion, which means inclusion and diversity needs to be ingrained and interwoven into every aspect of ASAE's mission, but it has to be the filter that's looked at through everything. And of course, there were some there were some people that really had a problem that ASAE was retiring this. So there's a couple of things. Um, when we talk about DEI's initiative initiative, I heard a speaker that spoke at one of our events. He happened to be Deloitte's CEO of the year at that time. He happened to be a a a solid Black leader who sat on stage and said, anyone that has a DEI initiative doesn't know what they're talking about because an initiative has an endpoint and a start point.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

He goes, diversity and inclusion is not an initiative. Diversity and inclusion is how we treat human beings, how we make sure that people feel like they belong. And he goes, when you make it an initiative, you don't know what you're doing because the initiative literally has an end date and a start date. And we're forgetting about the human on the other side of it. Now that was just his perspective on it, but it was a it was a great reminder to everybody that diversity is not an initiative. It is about how we treat people. And what I think is really important, Timothy, I think I shared with you, um, we had this PCMA event uh in Chicago. It was a local chapter that one of uh one of my uh past employees was part of the you know communications committee and asked me, or education committee asked me to do this thing. And we went and we spent an hour and a half really going deep around DEI. And and the kind of eye-opening point that I made that kind of made people rethink this just a little bit, nobody is questioning the what, we're questioning the how. Nobody is questioning that diversity is inclusion and inclusion is important, it's how we do it. And the reason I think this is so important, if if nothing else comes out of this podcast, there was a unanimous Supreme Court decision in February. And the reason I say unanimous, the reason I say unanimous, it matters that this wasn't a political statement, that's a pure legal statement. And there was a unanimous Supreme Court decision that said somebody of white color has no extra burden of proof to claim a discrimination claim against an organization or a company or a person than somebody of color. There is no extra burden of proof. So let me give you an example. Everything in my association is DEI, DEI, DEI, DEI. It's it's pasted everywhere. It is what I champion, it is what I continuously talk about. I get passed over for a scholarship, I'm of white color. I now can sue you, and I've got all the evidence in the world that tells you what you care about because of how we've put this together. How what you're caring about is excluding that. And that is putting organizations at risk. That is there, and like anything when these types of decisions are made, there are ambulance chasing lawyers that are on the sidelines waiting to sue somebody.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

So I'm reminding everybody remove your emotion and let's talk about how we get this done in the new framework of law so that we make sure we're getting what we want. And by the way, I always say if you have a DEI initiative and it feels like it excludes anybody, we've missed the point. It's about inclusion. And it shouldn't be based on in, you know, going back to what we all heard and loved about Martin Luther King, you know, judge me on the content of my character, not the color of my skin. Yet sometimes the color of the skin becomes the conversation. And that's what we're wrestling with. But I think it's important for people not to get emotional when they're hearing organizations getting away from a DEI program or a lead. It doesn't mean they don't believe in DEI. They are trying to figure out how they do this more effectively and make that important. And, you know, there was a Wall Street Journal article that talked about the number of corporations that had gotten rid of their head of DEI over the last year. And I remember in the association world hearing a lot of people really upset with that. I go, but did you read further past the headline? It's not that the companies didn't believe in in DEI. What they realized was if you're really going to have an impact, if you're really going to make movement through the organization, it needed to live in the human resources department because they put in these DEI roles and they had no connectivity to the rest of the company.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

But but the heartbeat of the company is HR. It's always HR. So it lives there. It's the heart. So what does the heart do? It pumps blood to the rest of the body. And if you can put DE DEI or diversity and inclusion in the heart, it will be pumped through the rest of the organization. That's the best analogy I can give you on what is trying to be done. I'm not saying it's a hundred times successful, but that's what everybody's trying to accomplish.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Yeah, and I think the the people and and the individuals that are bemoaning the loss of DEI the most vocifier vociferously, right? They're the ones I think that at the end of the day, what they truly wanted was for inclusion to be a practice and not a program, right? Right. And that's what you've talked about. Like it needs, like we we just covered that with a lead, like lead certification and wellness. Like it needs to just be expected. It's just baked in. It there's no question about it.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Well, and and I will tell you, like, I I you look at our organization, we're as diverse as they come. And somebody pointed out to me I have an all-female exec team. And I said, But by the way, that's not diverse either. You know, it would be nice to have a little bit of male perspective because that's not diverse to have an all-female team when it's all done. But I wasn't trying to check a box ever. Right. And the reason we're diverse is because, and this is the one thing, Timothy, for people that really want to make a difference, focus on diversity of thought. And diversity of thought is brought to the forefront by your unique experience, your unique filter. It has nothing to do with your color or your gender, it has to do with how you grew up, where you grew up, who your parents were, who your friends were. All of that makes you a unique human being. Yet we tend to put people in the same bucket because they're people of color and a certain color. And I'm sitting there reminding everybody diversity of thought is what you're looking for. And diversity of thought comes from different perspectives. And that's how you build a very unique organization when it's all done.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

Well, a great perspective from someone who's sitting, um, 10,000 feet view of the industry and where things are changing, you know, from from the from the Supreme Court, the the the law of the land is changed. And it's gonna take uh voices like yours, Michael, to get that message out. But that the time don't don't be uh planning like it's 1999, right? Like I just planning bodies like it's 1999. The tides have changed. And and thank you for thank you for addressing that for our listeners. We really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

And and Timothy, I think it's important. It wasn't highly publicized. No, the reason most people don't know about it, it wasn't front front of the papers, uh, because we were just getting into just about tariff conversations and all those other points, it was kind of missed. And it's an important, it is an important change in what the um the statute tells us as far as barriers, um, and and level of barrier that that is required. It's it's a significant change.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

I would I would encourage if you're interested, read Sotomayor's uh uh opinion on the on the matter. She she she weighed in pretty well and uh and it was powerful. When I read it, I realized okay, times have changed. This is different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Let's let's move into uh our final topic. We're gonna we're gonna spend last uh we're gonna park it here because there's you what when I spoke with you, just the the ground that you cover, the the the the scope that you see is is so much. And so we're trying to cover a lot of it here, but we want to talk about something else you talked about, mentorship versus sponsorship. And this this topic, mentorship, is big right now because of the generational shift. Um, COVID, we saw a lot of exit from the the uh people that were already thinking about retiring, they moved out of the game, and a lot of young planners came in, and now mentorship is the topic, right? But you talked about a different word. You said, let's talk about sponsorship. I love how you do this, you're constantly challenging the paradigm. So so let's talk about mentorship versus sponsorship. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Well, the you know, mentorship, we we tend to ask people uh to be a mentor, and we ask people to teach us and and really embrace that. And like your manager can be a mentor, but it's your manager and it's their job to actually grow you and help you develop. Um, the biggest difference that I don't think people understand is I I have a lot of employees through the time frame through my career that have asked me to be a mentor. And what does that look like? And I always ask them, what does that look like to you? Because everybody has a different definition of what mentorship looks like. But what I think is really important and what I think people should be focused on, if you're trying to advance your career, if you're trying to advance your skill set, that's mentorship. If you're trying to advance your wisdom, it's mentorship. If you're really trying to advance your, your, you know, your career and where you want to go, it becomes sponsorship. And the difference between sponsorship and membership are mentorship is a mentor is not always your sponsor. And the reason for that is your mentor may not be in the room when a sponsor is gonna serve you well. And the difference is very simple, Timothy. I'm sitting in a leadership meeting, and let's say it's in my past role, and I'm at this table with all of the leaders and the executives of a corporation, and we're talking about, you know, we we're gonna put in this new project, we're gonna have to have a lead. And it's me saying, you know, you should look at Timothy. Timothy would be really good for that. That is me being your sponsor because I am willing to speak up and say, This is the person you need to look at. And and when they ask me why, it's like, because he always raises his hand, he always execute, he's always on time, he's always professional. I do those things, you're right. Yeah, seriously. That's being a sponsor, and that's not necessarily me being your mentor, because I may have never mentored you, but it's how it's how you show up and it's how you're seen. And I will tell you, and I know this will rub some people wrong, but you know, we live in such a casual society. The way I'm dressed right now, it shocks people if I show up in jeans anywhere. Ever. Like I never wear jeans. Yes, I do wear jeans, it's usually on the weekends, but if the worst thing anybody's gonna always say is Mike is always in a sports coat, always looks professional, and always sharply dressed, that's my own persona, that's my own brand. It's really easy for people to sponsor me. But we've got people that think it's all about my own identity when I'm at work and I'm gonna dress and be uniquely me. That's great. But don't complain when your your age group puts you in a kid category and you dress and show up like a kid. Don't complain when I'm in a room and I have an ability to sponsor. I'm not sponsoring the kid because it's me putting my name on the line to say, you know what? Like I said, always professional, always shows up, always there. And there's this thing I also believe is that we've become so casual in our dress. Now, look, I don't wear a tie anymore. That's me being more casual today, but I do wear the, but I will wear a tie where it's appropriate. If I'm doing calls in New York and I'm meeting with New Yorkers, guess what? I'm putting a tie on because they have a tie on. And it shouldn't matter what I want, it matters who I'm seeing. And I think we've lost some of that, but I've always said this how you dress is how you behave. If you've ever noticed, I think we have become less respectful as a society as we become more casual as a society. Because when we dress up, it's a different format. And and my eye-opener to this, let me explain where this is coming from. I got to speak at the Cambridge Debate Hall. Um, and this was three years ago now. Good Lord. Okay. It is the oldest debate hall in existence.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Yes. Um, is it in London? It's in Cambridge.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

It's in Cambridge.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Cambridge University.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

Yeah, it's Cambridge University. It was an amazing experience. I was invited by one of our meeting planners, and she wants me back next year because it's going to be the five-year anniversary or in 26, 27. So I'm coming back. But when we did this, Timothy, the thing that stood out to me, and I did a LinkedIn post, a very lengthy LinkedIn post. But you know, there's three people pro, there's three people against.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Oh, I've seen the format. It's that old table, they stand across the table from each other.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Yeah, yeah. And you you've got podiums, and then there's it looks like a courtroom, and there's there's aisles on this side. So cool. The main yeah, well, it's run by the student union. Yes. And these students come in, and what stood out to me, everybody that participated, the students that are involved, the people that put it together, we were all in tuxedo and formal gowns. You dressed up for the epoch. Wow. And you know what you found? When you're dressed in a tuxedo, you tend to talk a little more elegantly. You tend to because of how you dressed. And I and I think it does matter. And this this is where it really occurred to me that we've become so casual and there was such a respect for tradition in this debate hall that they were able to debate. And and what I found when I talk about respect, they have a dinner for everybody that's involved, right? Right before the event. And I'm out in the hallway talking, they're like, Mike, we're waiting for you. And I come in, everybody is standing behind their chair because they will not sit down until everybody who's having dinner is in the room. Oh goodness. It's it's respect. And they're saying it's not about because I said, Oh, how formal. They go, Mike, it's not formal, it's respectful. This is how we show respect. And then what I thought is interesting is of course we debated, and anybody could speak up and stuff's being thrown back at you. It's really cool. And then you vote with your feet. You walk out and you go through you go left if you're pro, you go right if you're con. And if you abstain, you go through the middle. They count how you exit to know who won the debate. But we're all exiting into a reception hall and we're having beer and wine and continuing the conversation, and nobody's screaming, nobody's mad. It is part of the evening. But I do think part of it is how we're dressed, and there's a part of that. And I just did a leadership lesson at a women's leadership conference. And you know what I said? I learned this long ago when I had the privilege of working for Mr. Tisch. And he, you know, he would lose hotels. I was in New York, got to know John quite well. But you know, the one thing John I took away from John is when I'm on an airplane, Timothy, and I'm for business. If I'm on an airplane for business, I'm going somewhere. I'm dressed like this. I'm not in sweats, I'm not in jeans, I'm not in tennis shoes. Because you know what John said? You never know who you're sitting next to. And remember the adage, you can never make a first impression again. No, so I'm trying to be a serious business person. I'm next to somebody that could be my biggest client, but I'm in my sweatpants and my sweatsuit and I'm wearing my tennis and trying to say I'm a serious entrepreneur or business owner. It is always stuck with me. And I don't mean that as criticism. I said somebody taught me that. Somebody was my mentor that taught me that long ago. You never know who you're sitting next to. So I show up all the time in a professional manner when it's with business. Hey, if I'm going on vacation, I'm in my shorts, I'm in my t-shirt, I'm doing that. But everybody would understand I'm headed to vacation. That is dress appropriate. And I think we've gotten away from dress appropriate.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

You know, I don't know how you do this because here's my next question. Has anyone ever done that for you and mentored you and changed your trajectory? I was about to ask that. Can you can you elaborate on on maybe your time with Mr. Tish?

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Yeah, yeah, you know what? I I say this often. The the one John is the epitome of hospitality. And and I thought I did it well, and John does it to the nth degree. And and I learned a lot from him. So one time I had to be his handler, and I say his handler, he he was getting dropped off. I had to get him through a convention center uh because he was giving an award uh at one evening at an event in Washington, D.C. So I get him, I walk him through, and he stops, somebody stops him, he's talking to him, and I'm trying to get John where we're supposed to go. And I'm kind of antsy and I'm over here, and he's completely ignoring me, completely. And I'm like, I'm trying to get his attention. And then as we walk away, and it's this is what I learned from him, and I try to replicate it. Um, he actually says, Mike, I saw you. He said, I may only have five minutes for people, but they owe I owe them five minutes of my attention. Oh man. And I'm trying to do this every word you just said. Yeah, and I am trying to do that today, Timothy. That's why I said I feel guilty sometimes after IMX, because that's what John taught me. And I have had clients that told me, Mike, it was only five minutes, but I felt like I was the only person in the world. That's what should happen. And if you're one of these, Timothy, let me tell you what that looks like. If you're at a reception, it's an MPI reception, you're talking, me and you were talking, but I'm like looking around because somebody's kind of I do it sometimes. It's habit. It is habit, but that's telling the person you're talking to, that's more important than the conversation you're having.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

Well, you at IMAX, this was we're talking about people. There were there was a record setting year. I think there was like 19,000 people there, right? Record breaking year. And there's the you're at the your booth is at the core of IMAX right there at that at the beating heart. And Michael, you never broke eye contact with me for the five minutes that you stood. And I knew you were you were in the middle, you were on your way. I could see it. The energy that you were giving off was, I'm super busy. This is a crazy, crazy time. But then you never broke eye contact with me. You you lead by example. What you just preached, you practiced when when I saw you at IMAX, um, eye contact, you gave me, and and even when when when it was time to end the conversation, you looked at me again and was like, and you gave me another chance. Uh anything else you want to say? I I love that about about the way that you were accessible to me in that moment. And it says a lot about a mentor.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

And that's it. And you said, What did I learn from John? And one other quick story with John that I think was impressive is you know, John being John, I mean, he comes from one of the richest families in in the US and owned the New York Giants, and yeah, they're looking good. Thank God we're doing we're going. Because I told John I'd always cheer for them.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

Um that's because San Antonio doesn't have a football team.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

Exactly, exactly. There you go. Um, but what's really interesting is on that same, on that same event, um, he ended up making sure I got on the plane to go back. Um, because he was on, he was on uh private, private flight. So there were four of us on the plane. And what I'll never forget, um pilot came out before we took off and said, you know, here's here's some Sauvignon Blanc, here's some turkey sandwiches. Mr. Tish says, Thank you. You know, um, the flight takes off when we settle at an altitude that we everything's normal. John gets up and he never stops serving us. The three guests on his plane, he continued to make sure our glasses were full and we had food if we wanted food. And to me, that is that is being real and that is being humble, and and also more than anything, that is why I say he's the king of hospitality. I have the utmost respect uh for Jonathan because I think he he did it right. And John will tell you, as good as he was, his father was even better. Oh and John will tell you that. And I I only got to meet Preston once because he passed away shortly after I got to uh to Lowe's, but everybody will talk about he was he did what John did on steroids. So John had somebody that taught him that same thing.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

What a pedigree of mentorship, Michael. I'm sure that you pass that along to everyone you get to spend time with. And even in the small moments, you are passing that along. You are living that legacy. And we do thank you for joining us today. I want to leave you, I want to leave us with one question though. Okay. Um, and I just I just I just want to just kind of like, you know, what what I love about you is, and and I'm prefacing this because you have not pulled any punches today. So that's what I think that's why you're such a sought-after speaker. You say it like it is. So um, is there anything that you're seeing in this next generation of leadership that's coming up that's giving you hope? Yeah and what would you encourage them to do?

SPEAKER_00 49:51

Without a doubt, um, I'm gonna separate it. Um, and and again, I'm gonna I'm gonna counter something I said because I'm gonna talk about a generation.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Uh, but Gen Z, when I'm looking at Gen Z, the one thing I am reminding everybody in our industry, um, and I'm I'm kind of putting that in that 26 and younger category. Um, I said, you need to understand they're nothing like the millennials. They are coming up a different generation. They actually have the largest workforce participation rate we have seen for 16 and 19 year olds in 25 years. And that was pretty consistent for about 30 years until the millennials who didn't work part-time and didn't work 16 to 19, didn't work through college in many cases. That dropped to 25%. The Gen Z is coming back, they are working. I promise you, if you go look at if you go to forget fast food over the weekend, if you go to a restaurant, you're gonna see kids and you're gonna see kids working. That's refreshing. And I am so encouraged because we have a generation that wants to work. We have a generation that is going to vocational schools. And I think that we're forgetting that vocational schools disappeared. Um, the bill that passed in Washington in March, by the way, has 500 billion set aside for vocational training. And we are getting kids that are coming out of this generation. They're going to be electricians, they're going to be plumbers, they're going to be carpenters. And by the way, if we're going to build data centers around the world or around the country, guess what we need? Plumbers and electricians. There's a lot of water to cool those data centers. There's a lot of power to actually run those data centers. We're kind of merging at the same time. And for our industry, I'm looking at people that really want to come in to work. And I think the challenge for us uh with this opportunity is how do we create our own vocational type schooling or programming so the kids know they can come learn on the job and get that same vocational skill and carry it through our industry to do something else they want to do. Wow. And it's like in the hotels, we used to have management training programs. How do we create a management training program without the promise of a management job? But I'm going to teach you everything. And the more I can get you skilled, the more you're going to find out where you fit in our industry. And some of it might be on your side where they want to get. And I remind these kids, hey, you like working with video, you like working with technology. You know, have you ever thought about this part of it? And we forget that as an industry. I think we have an opportunity to capitalize on it. But I am so excited. And by the way, all the research is telling us this generation wants to be together face to face more than any other generation. And that is encouraging for us for the future when you're talking about what's going to look like over the next 10 or 15 years. And I hired one of these really talented young individuals out of college, um, literally about three months ago now. But her first week, I take her to lunch. And you know what she told me? And it was an aha for me. She says, What people have forgotten is all of my friends, my age group, at least three or four years of my schooling was virtual. We were disconnected from humanity. And this is why they are so she, by the way, want to be in the office. They want to come to an office. Doesn't mean they want to come five days a week, but they want to be in an office. They want to be around people, they want to learn around people. I think that is such a shift for us uh moving forward. And I'm so encouraged and so optimistic because I look at this generation and it's like it is really fun to see what they're going to do because I think they are gonna come out with so much enthusiasm about our industry and about what we do that it's just gonna make us better.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

Wow, Michael, that is true. They are a hardworking bunch, and and I can attestify, I can testify to that. Um, we're gonna let you go, but before we do, I'm gonna give you a plug and we're gonna talk about where people can find you next. Um, but I'm gonna give you a personal plug, and this is not planned, you you weren't expecting this, but one of my favorite places to eat, my girlfriend and I will make the trek an hour north to Austin to go sit in the Carillon restaurant at the ATT Executive Education and Conference Center. I did not know that was one of your brands. When I was walking the floor, that was at the end of the aisle, and I saw that brand. I'm like, I love that place. I go there, I eat there. Allison, uh, the the GM there. I know, I know Allison. I know. Allison's awesome. She's yeah, she's awesome. So I was gonna shout out one of your brands, ATT Conference Center. They are phenomenal. And if you can eat at the Carolon, it is worth every minute of your time to go sit there. And it just the brand stands out. Where can we find you next, sir?

SPEAKER_00 54:24

Um, let's see. From an industry perspective, I'll be at FICP uh for a little bit, uh doing something with the hospitality group. And um, and then um I think that's it from now to the end of the year in the big one. We have a lot of Al High events that are gonna be all over the place, but um, I'll definitely be around and then we'll be at uh starting next year. I I hit the ground running, but um lots lots of different cities.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

How do people reach out to if they want to book you as a keynote speaker?

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Um actually they can uh just reach out. My my email address is my mdominguez at al high.com, a-l-h-i.com. Yes. And um, and then uh also on LinkedIn, they can do that at any time. But um, like I I appreciate it. I I'm passionate about the industry, and um, I love the questioning because I thought this was really robust and had some breath to it, so that makes it valuable and it wasn't a vanilla conversation. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

Of course, Mark. We're so glad that you joined us. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you, appreciate it, you guys. Have we go? Thank you for tuning in to M like Live. We hope today's episode in the video away and still. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe away. So we're new. Hopefully, so we need more listeners and bring even better content in the way. Opportunities to come back growing. Until next time, stay in the spot and keep leveling up. This is Timothy's spinning up. Thank you for listening.