The Trust Muscle: Faith, Grief, and Becoming with Abi Mustapha

Thomas and Abi explore personal transformation through the lens of trust, authenticity, and spiritual awakening, discussing how our deepest beliefs get tested during periods of change.

• The "trust muscle" and how belief becomes strongest right before it gets challenged
• How numbing behaviors like alcohol and partying can mask deeper issues during transformation
• The power of radical honesty with yourself and others as the foundation for authentic living
• What happens when people fall away as you become more authentic with yourself
• The hidden complexity beneath seemingly simple human experiences
• Creating personal ceremonies to process grief, especially after relationship endings
• Faith as a reciprocal relationship that requires nurturing and communication
• The metaphor of "dark portals" that we must cross through during transformation
• How facing your darkness actually expands your capacity for joy and growth
• The cyclical nature of spiritual development rather than linear progress

Transcript

Welcome to The Unfixed Self

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to the Unfixed Self podcast , and this is a special episode because it's with Abby Mustafa . It's kind of like having a co-host a little bit .

Speaker 2 0:13

I love that , I love that .

Speaker 1 0:17

So we've been having a bunch of fun conversations lately .

Speaker 2 0:22

We could be like Trevor Noah and his co-host .

Speaker 1 0:25

Yeah , I don't have no idea what that is .

Speaker 2 0:27

I know a Trevor Noah , but she's really great .

Speaker 1 0:29

I didn't know he had a co-host .

Speaker 2 0:31

Exactly . Sometimes he has a co-host .

Speaker 1 0:33

Oh , it's like a transitionary co-host situation .

Speaker 2 0:38

I know , sometimes she's on the show and sometimes she's not . Yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1 0:45

That's amazing . But yeah , I mean , as many people know , I've been going through kind of the transformation vibes lately Um and Abby has been going through it and been an excellent like mirror and reflection of the things I've been going through , especially around like that trust muscle .

Speaker 2 1:09

The chest muscle . Yeah , I mean , that's like that's . It's always like redefining the trust muscle , you know , like the direction that you're going in now and what that looks like . I've been getting that a lot lately with everything I could . I was telling you about the ceramics just a minute ago .

Speaker 1 1:27

And .

Speaker 2 1:28

I think the trust muscle I'm going through the most right now is belief .

Speaker 1 1:31

Yeah .

Speaker 2 1:32

You know , I something , something happened and I , I just got shaken . And I was I think I get shaken the hardest when I'm closest to the epitome or like the , the peak of my belief process , and I was like , oh , I'm in it , I'm like in the flow , I got everything . And then you know , something hit and it was just like dang .

Speaker 1 1:59

Like why do you think like you sabotage ? That sounds like a sabotaging thing . Yeah , I think it's .

Speaker 2 2:04

I think it's kind of a glass ceiling situation where it's like , oh shit , I , I really deeply , was in probably the strongest sense of belief around what I wanted , where I was going , all the things that were coming in , and I was , it felt so incredibly good , yeah , and probably more incredibly good than I've ever experienced , and I was like , oh my God , I'm like there , you know , and calling in really really big things too , and so to feel so aligned and worthy of those things , it was like , oh , amazing , you know amazing , I'm on it , this like it's , I'm doing the thing , the formula works , you know , I'm in the flow , all of that . And it was so much more than that .

Speaker 1 2:46

Even the meditation I had the day before I had that crash , it was like , oh my gosh amazing when you say formula like , I'm curious , like when you like what formula , would the formula works Like you ? Were like this works and I'm like what is that ?

Speaker 2 3:08

Well , it's like there's all these different , like there's all these different manifestation formulas and formulas to like to get into the flow or to create your life , and they're all really similar yeah , you know the idea of authenticity . Yeah , uh , surrender , reprogramming yourself and belief , you know finding deservingness , worthiness , all worthiness , all of that . So all of that wrapped up in a really great formula . And expansion TBM does it the best . But I listened to a lot of Michael Beckwith too , and it's the same formula in so many words , so I just felt so aligned .

Speaker 2 3:41

Yeah , and that it really . I felt so on top of everything and I remember saying , oh , this would be like . I'm so close to getting all the things that I want . This is a likely time for me to sabotage .

Speaker 2 3:55

I said it out loud , I even wrote it in my journal , you know . And then that night was like just I got thrown off and and somehow , I think because I got thrown off when I was in a place of feeling so unshakable it really threw me off , and because I was like higher up on the mountain than I've ever been- yeah . So yeah , it was very interesting .

Speaker 1 4:18

I mean I think it's funny and I hate how this is true . I think it's funny and I hate how this is true . You hear it a lot in sobriety circles and things about hitting rock bottom or when you get some dramatic thing has to happen or it doesn't have to , but it seems to be the common theme for change or transformation , or I . You know , when I say transformation it's kind of weird because it's kind of like I feel like you know , if you're like transforming , transforming yourself , it's almost giving the idea that you're becoming something different , you know , but it's like you're kind of like not really , I mean yeah , I mean everything .

Speaker 2 5:06

Think of like a seed transforms into a plant .

Speaker 1 5:07

A baby transforms into an adult .

Speaker 2 5:08

Yeah , it's the natural course of most things to transform in some way well , shit , exactly .

Speaker 1 5:14

And um , I think you know I , I , the past year I've been through a couple of moments of situations , including a divorce , uh , kind of suicidal ideation and different things that have like sparked that kind of rock bottom quote unquote kind of vibe . But you know , it's crazy how long I , I I can just ignore , like those things right , like I just be like I'm just going to keep going , I'm not going to face the things , I'm not going to like face what the dark things that are coming up Sometimes . I'd rather just ignore it and just pretend everything is okay .

Speaker 1 5:57

Like do you , do you relate with that at all ?

Speaker 2 6:00

Yeah , it's called numbing . I do it all the time . That was my , uh , that was definitely my . That you know it was . It was like going out and partying when I had I had one . I'm in this place of obviously I've talked to you about it yeah of just transitioning into , transitioning into just being someone who isn't a drinker . Yeah , you know , that's it's and it's not out of like oh oh , I'm like I'm fucked up and I drank every night or whatever . I'm not worthy of . It's none of that . And I don't . I don't mind people drinking , I love to party . It's that it just isn't really serving me . And so , even if I go months or weeks and then I have a drink , there's something about it that ends up being just another data point as to why I don't really want to do that anymore . And so for me , that was . That was kind of part of the crash . And then , once I'm drinking , my little party goblin comes out and there's this like you know what , I'm already here .

Speaker 2 6:57

I'm already doing it so it , just , it ends up just .

Speaker 2 7:01

There's parts of me that need to be expressed in different ways . And when I , when I've seen my , when I picture myself in the future , when I picture myself in the place that feels and I imagine is is like safest and the most wise , and feels the most grounded and doing my life's work , it's I never picture it with alcohol and that's , that's been forever and it's nothing I was thinking that I really was trying to aspire to . It wasn't like a game point , that like okay , and at this point I'm going to not drink ever again . It just it's just always been like that when I've , when I pictured it .

Speaker 2 7:41

So the older I get and the more I'm getting comfortable with myself and digging deep into like why I do the things that I do . Some of that is starting to to ask , ask the why . Like come , figure it , come , figure me out . Essentially , like those little parts of me and the alcohol one has been something for the last like year or two that I've I've been in and out of , like okay , is this really , you know , even like we were talking about the other day , like acquiring a taste for alcohol ?

Speaker 2 8:09

you know the idea of like oh yeah , like I didn't ever like the taste of it . I had to acquire the taste . And if you have to acquire a taste for poison , what like why you know what , what's the , you know and it's not . I say that jokingly , like there , my husband is a brewer , as you know , and like he actually really loves the taste of beer , so it's , this is just for me , but it just hasn't been serving me . I can , like take it too far . I get , I love to party and I also like to party .

Speaker 2 8:38

Not drinking is the thing , so that also happens . And knowing that that that happens , I'm like , oh , what's the ? What's going on here ? Like what's going on with this ? And so I've just gotten

The Trust Muscle and Belief Process

Speaker 2 8:50

to a place this year , especially , where I'm finally wanting to look at it and feeling willing to look at it . Night specifically ended up being a really helpful data point for me in this . It just exposed so much after and I think I needed that in a way , like I don't think I think I needed that for this journey because there were , there were some questions that it answered for me and I yeah , I think I called it in really I do , I'm like oh yeah , I need , I needed literally journal , I know .

Speaker 2 9:28

But also just you , just what that looks like to okay and and going . Just everything about it was . We can talk more detail about that later , but it was just like . Everything about it was like oh yeah , this is like okay , yeah , I so I'm in a shift as well , but I'm I feel like it was two weeks ago , so I finally have that trust muscle again of like okay , yeah , that was like and haven't it's not .

Speaker 2 9:53

It's so interesting because drugs and alcohol and even like binge eating , you know , for me too , and or things like that , are when I , when I'm doing my work , me too and or things like that are when I , when I'm doing my work . They don't play the same kind of role in my life . And I think everybody's goal is , you know , when you're doing self-work , you're like I just want to get to a place where I don't have to practice anymore and it's just good . And I think that was the . That was what I learned from that moment of of getting caught up in some , some old habits . It was this like oh yeah , actually I need to have a practice , and part of having a practice is that , like you do change and things get easier , but also knowing why I do the things that I do . I'm not trying to bury some stuff and just be like , oh no , I like I can never do this , ever again , and I don't want to look at why . It's like okay , if I want to do that , sure , but like , why do I want to do that ? Cause there's something in me that also is like you know , and and gets just has all these feelings about it when I do so .

Speaker 2 10:56

Um yeah , that's been coming up , but that's , I feel like that's coming up with nearly everything in my life . You know , there's's a laundry list of things that are inauthentic to me , that are coming up that I'm like it's going through that list . We've said this before . But just the idea of if you're in a place where you really want to seek the truth , the idea that you have to be open to everything you think you believe potentially being wrong , and so I feel like I've gone through this before , and so I'm like , oh yeah , I know what this feels like .

Speaker 2 11:28

It's called growth , and every time you reach that kind of edge where you're like , fuck , I'm going through that again . It looks different , and so that's the formula . Ultimately , I'm like , oh yeah , it's like the spiral that goes up and you're like , oh , I remember being on this part of the spiral again . I'm just a little , a little more knowledgeable , I have more data points , I have more information , I've had more experiences in being in practice and knowing what it feels like to be in practice and knowing what it feels like when I'm tipsy like like by not drunk tipsy , but like out of practice , or the things that risk my alignment , you know . So that's a whole other part of the cyclical nature of growth .

Speaker 1 12:15

That brings up so much . But I mean , even like I don't know , I've talked about authenticity for so long , right , but it hasn't been until I really started practicing like honesty right with myself and with other people that I was like , ah crap , you know , like I haven't been honest , you know and like fully .

Speaker 1 12:48

you know and like fully . I mean , I think there's always moments where you you feel disingenuous or you feel I feel like it's like you're wearing like a costume or mask or something and then , suddenly , like you get really attached to that mask and everyone expects you to be in that mask and in that costume , and and then next thing , you know , when you start to shift , you start to see people go away . You know , you start to see , and most of the time it's not really that dramatic , you know , they just kind of fade away , but there's this sense of loss . You know , yeah , and it's probably one of the hardest things that I've had to . You know , move through Is like kind of that wound of rejection , because that's what that is . It feels like of rejection , because that's what that is . It feels like , you know that's what it feels like .

Speaker 2 13:26

It feels like yeah , yeah you know and but it's interesting that you're calling it rejection , because it's like a self-inflicted I know like you're choosing to to do something else and you're like you're actually the one moving away from those people .

Speaker 1 13:39

So that's like a deeper yeah , I like I don't , even , I don't , even , I don't even , uh , cause like I don't see it as me moving away . You know , I see , I see it as me like , like bringing up something that maybe I've always been , but being more open about it , right yeah .

Speaker 2 13:59

But then it isn't something you've always been .

Speaker 1 14:01

Yeah .

Speaker 2 14:02

You know , like they , if , if it's , if there's people in your life that are stoked on the person you are with a mask on they're not going to recognize you when you take off the mask .

Speaker 1 14:10

Yeah .

Speaker 2 14:11

You know , like that it just makes sense that they would be like I don't know you .

Speaker 1 14:14

I guess you know I think I've gone through it I almost like half expect people to have some kind of like empathy or something for it .

Speaker 2 14:32

You know everyone's watching you all the time .

Speaker 1 14:34

No , but like you know , like , like , cause , I cause . Like , when other people , like my friends , change , I don't hold them to that standard . I don't , I don't . I'm not like you were this before , now you're this , you know , I , I've like , I actually practice like just allowing myself to accept them for whoever they are when they show up . Right , and so Is it well , who's not ?

Speaker 2 14:58

are there a lot of people that you feel like aren't accepting you ? Or is that I'm not saying ? I only say this because I often like project that other people won't be accepting me , and I I was listening actually to trevor noah , the other day , and one thing that the artist he had on said was there's a name for it .

Speaker 2 15:15

Yeah , when it's , when you the the , the way that you act , when you expect racism yes you know , and I think it's the same thing when we're going through a change , yeah , there's like I always project what my friends are gonna think and and that also affects . Well , it affects how I interact with them when really I'm like is it , is that really ? Maybe they actually just don't even care ?

Speaker 1 15:39

you know or don't you know it's not .

Speaker 2 15:41

It's not a thing of that . So I like to question that , just because that .

Speaker 1 15:44

No , that's what I often do , and then I'm like , oh shit , maybe they didn't care at all . It makes complete sense . And I think yeah , because there's been times when I've been like , oh , everybody's this or everybody's that , right . When it's like I have no proof of that , that's just like my imagination . In this case , there are like a like you know a few people who have like faded away . They haven't said anything and they could be fading away for different reasons . Yeah , you know , like the assumption is that I am not saying the things I used to say as often and I'm not doing the things I used to do as often .

Speaker 1 16:16

Thus , and then now they're fading away , you know yeah um , but , like I said , it could be for other reasons . I've only had like a very small amount of people , like very tiny , tiny , tiny amount of people , who have actually , like explicitly , you know , been like uh , like you know it's a great filter .

Speaker 1 16:36

Yeah , exactly , and I keep on your life here but that's the thing I think , when we , when we're going or when I'm going through this , I tend to what we were just describing , but like over dramatize , you know , because it's so important to me , right , that feeling of feeling accepted or or wanted or whatever , um , that , like I may over dramatize the , the actual situation and so again it tends . I I've been trying to practice just being present . I know this is like a cliche . We were talking about this yesterday , about how everything I feel , like I'm saying , is like a cliche or the same things I said like 10 years ago , a Yoda meme .

Speaker 1 17:18

Yeah , a Yoda meme , but like there's something about when you really let yourself be present and still , and that's what I've been practicing a lot really let yourself be present and still and that's what I've been practicing a lot lately is just being present and still , so that I can just witness all the things that are happening and that are coming up . And you know , this all started because I decided to do a grieving ceremony for my , my marriage , and I thought I was fine . You know , I was like I'm good . And then it turned out that there was a lot there , but it wasn't just about , it was actually nothing about Lauren , it was all about the part of me that I had become .

Speaker 2 18:01

I feel like when you're in a couple , you're a different embod like you're

Alcohol, Authenticity, and Growth

Speaker 2 18:05

when you're in a couple . Yeah , you're a different embodiment of yourself . You know there's this like the we right .

Speaker 1 18:10

You know like you're mourning the we yeah , yeah , I mean even like and I think that's what I've been calling it the us . But yeah , know what I just ? I just learned from ted lasso what they call selfies , ussies . Oh , that makes so much sense . I didn't realize , but that's what that ?

Speaker 2 18:30

and I was like ussy , like what are they saying ? And then I was like oh my gosh , there's because we have the the caption on I was like they call them ussies I just saw a social media thing .

Speaker 1 18:40

I was like , oh , come here and do an ussy . And I was like what the fuck are they talking about , you know ? And now this makes complete .

Speaker 2 18:45

I thought they were saying hussy . I was like why are ? I think it's just a different word for a selfie . And then I realized ussy . I was like oh , okay .

Speaker 1 18:56

What was I talking about ?

Speaker 2 18:56

Because you couldn't say like a wee , wee .

Speaker 1 18:58

Yeah , yeah , yeah . I don't know .

Speaker 2 19:01

Oh , the us yeah , oh my gosh , it time it makes sense because and why like us calling it a cell if you're not by yourself , if you're taking it with like ?

Speaker 1 19:10

another person . Yeah , yeah , yeah , an se the se . Yeah , I think it's brilliant . It's interesting because , like it's because like when we're in in a relationship and there's a lot of unconscious things that happen , like to us , like , I think , for me , because I've been trying to practice more , just like talking in I statements yeah , you're talking about you and lauren yeah , yeah , right , so , or you and your ex-partners no , that's fine .

Speaker 1 19:37

Um , like the us , what was created from that , like what that is , is a part of me that had kind of slowly started to try to tailor my myself to the relationship , mixed with this kind of like . The only way I could describe it is like , even if I'm sitting here right now and I was still married , right , part of her , or the part of her that I perceive that I project on , that I , you know , created my mind is here with me , right , like because we are , we are bonded , we have done a ceremonial bond and we have been together for a significant amount of time , right , and we live together . We've gone through trauma together , we've gone through all these things together , and so when a relationship ends again with a ceremonial bond broken , suddenly that entity that was in here now is , it has died , and so now you're just left with this emptiness , this void , and then like this , like weird , and that you could , and it feels sometimes like freedom , like I started like asking everyone out on dates , which was totally unhinged , right , but I look back at it , but I'm like that kind of makes sense , it does , and like you know , um , and but it was . I look at that void and I'm like man , like I was like when I come home at night , like I was so used to seeing my partner like you know , just you know making food for herself or something you know she had like a gracefulness to her . And now I'm coming home and it's just like this dark house , you know , and there's just like emptiness , there's quiet , and for a long time that was like terrifying .

Speaker 1 21:38

I would come home and it was just I'm like man . I knew what I had , but I didn't understand the full embodiment of that individually , on an individual level , and what that felt like . It felt like a death . It felt like someone had died , even though I was still talking to my partner . I was still , you know , and so I had .

Speaker 1 22:02

So eventually , after like obsessing over boxing for like months and like going every single day , I remember that yeah , you know , and um , being like , yeah , let's do this , you know , but a few times coming home , uh , with you know , borderline concussions from sparring , you know , I was like maybe I should calm down a little bit , uh , but I just was like I think I really need to grieve this . I haven't gotten to that point . I haven't really done a ceremony of grief , I haven't really accepted that something had died here , and so I went through a whole ceremony with myself and did it , and that's what opened up this freaking door , the portal .

Speaker 1 22:42

Yeah , this portal , it really truly , and I'm there and I have a choice did it and that's what opened up this freaking door , the portal , yeah , this portal , it really truly , and I'm there and I and I have a choice . This portal is dark , you know , like , if you think about , like , even just use your imagination for a second right and think of like an actual portal , like a door way , and like you have no idea what that weird , jelly looking thing is .

Speaker 2 23:04

That's what your portals look like . You know , and like sci-fi films ?

Speaker 1 23:07

yeah , totally and like you see all this like weird stuff and you're like , you're in people , just like walking through it . I'm always like , if that happened , I don't know if I would be just confidently putting my arm through , that I would I would totally peek through , I would .

Speaker 2 23:20

I wouldn't just jump through .

Speaker 1 23:22

But but I would like .

Speaker 2 23:24

I might stick my head through just to like get a glimpse .

Speaker 1 23:27

I think I would first like put my foot .

Speaker 2 23:32

Well , I'd want to see , because what if you stick your foot through and then something grabs you ?

Speaker 1 23:36

Yeah , but what , if you like , stick your head in and you're decapitated .

Speaker 2 23:39

Totally , but it is a risk . It's a risk , but you still won't know anything from putting your hand in , except that potentially , something's there watching you put your hand in you're totally versus like correct just stick your little , just like your the tip of your face through , you know , like the first three inches do a little quick . Look , see , you know , and then you can go a little further . Right , you know , maybe throw something through , see if it closes afterwards .

Speaker 1 24:07

So this is , this is exactly the feeling though , right , you don't you .

Speaker 1 24:11

We have different strategies of looking at like this true , this threshold I'm like I have to go see , no , but like , either way , like it's something that we're not just like , I'm just gonna walk through , you know , yeah , there's still that hesitation of like what am I going to do ? And I think even when I walked through it , it was very dark , you know , and it was like , you know , you recommended Martha Beck and it's similar to the book , the kind of idea that , like the dark wood , and she talks about , you know , dante's Inferno .

Speaker 1 24:41

Yeah , that book is so good and I walked through and it's like that . You know it's not a happy thing . You know Dante's Inferno yeah , that book is so good and I walk through and it's like that . You know it's not a happy thing . You know it's like I'm crying , like every other day . I'm like , you know , angry , like I'm just , you know , well , you're experiencing all the stages of grief like that .

Speaker 2 25:00

It's interesting that when you get married you know there's a ceremony for coupling , but there isn't an official ceremony for uncoupling .

Speaker 1 25:08

That's what divorce paperwork is all about .

Speaker 2 25:10

Totally I guess . Yeah , but like an actual recognition of you know , there's some cultures where there's like something that happens symbolically , and I guess signing paperwork is kind of symbolic it's like our society , yeah . But just the like . Like there's some culture where , like , the woman will put the guy's shoes outside yeah , and that means we're done . Yeah , and so it's like there's no physical evidence of uncoupling , yeah , so how do you grieve that ? You know you have it's . You have to create something for yourself .

Speaker 1 25:43

I think , yeah , I mean , there's no . There are funerals , there are weddings , there's no like equivalent to like a divorce , you know . And so I walked through the portal and it's just been . You know , as you know , it's been kind of like mixed bag you know , pain , things come up .

Speaker 1 26:12

But to be honest , it's been the biggest gift , like we've been talking about . I am so lucky that for that first year that really none of the real relationship-like things like dating , didn't work out Because I was forced to sit with my loneliness yes , like real loneliness . You know where it was like I had no crushes , Right , I had no partner , I had my cat .

Speaker 2 26:49

You got your cat .

Speaker 1 26:50

Yeah .

Speaker 2 26:50

You like made it happen . You went and got your cat .

Speaker 1 26:52

Yeah , when I got my cat , yeah , it was . Yeah , I'll say that story in a second Right , but at the end of the day it was kind of this , um , this , um , like facing , like truly feeling , and it's not alone as in like friendship alone , right it's like romantic alone .

Speaker 2 27:14

Well , are you talking about ? It's not loneliness , it's a aloneness aloneness .

Speaker 1 27:17

I guess I don't know the difference . What's the difference ?

Speaker 1 27:19

well like loneliness is when you long for other people around , and aloneness , to me at least , is just experiencing no other people around yeah , I mean that's so , it's , it's not the same as as longing for other people to be around there was there was , I think at first it was longing for , for like , but it wasn't people specifically like romantic , like finding validation in myself outside of myself yeah and like that's what I did with romantic partners . Like that I didn't have enough self-love and I would like fight , like when , like my love for myself was shown to me externally , you know , and I was like that's .

Speaker 1 27:58

That means like , oh , I'm worthy of love because I'm seeing it happen to me externally I hadn hadn't strengthened that muscle , and I've done little bits of it , but not as much as I should . And so by the time when that relationship ended I had very weak , almost astrophied muscle of like self-love , and so the loneliness eventually turned into just aloneness . And then that was a big step because it was like I was practicing , I was strengthening that self-love muscle and to now , where it's kind of just I guess it is still aloneness , but I'm not tripping about it as much .

Speaker 1 28:38

You know I'm not as attached , but that's just because I've been going . I've been like facing the things honestly . I think honesty is like the first step and I hate to say that I hate , I hate being the dude who's like why is it ?

Speaker 2 28:50

why do you need to say that ? I think I think everyone should be honest . I don't think it's popular at all , I think it is . I think that , again , maybe it's just my midwest charm , but no , I'm kidding , I do think . I do think that everything starts with honesty . You know like any shift or change in your life is usually cause you're like fuck it . I gotta be honest . Yeah , I don't like the way this tastes , you know , whatever it is , yeah . Most changes initiated by an honest thought , feeling or experience or honest reflection of such you know it's .

Speaker 2 29:20

If it just it is what initiates change . And it's's also like getting , when you're honest , at some point , all the things in your life that aren't honest they kind of they leave you and then you're just living a deeply honest in life that's in integrity and integrity and honesty . You know it's like you can be honest and and still not feel in integrity yeah , yeah . You know what I mean . So it's . I think integrity is when honesty is coupled with with right action .

Speaker 1 29:52

Yeah .

Speaker 2 29:52

So there's this like I , I need to be an integrity with myself . It just it's a totally different . I definitely I don't think that there's a problem saying that people need to be honest .

Speaker 1 30:05

Yeah , it's funny , it's like I'm seeing these stages that I've had just looking back , you know , of like because I remember I got a journal I have a journal here that when I started the journal I was like you know what ? I'm gonna be 100% honest in this journal . Right , I was like because usually some that sometimes when I start journaling , I start to realize like I start to almost censor myself a little bit with taboo subjects .

Speaker 1 30:31

Oh , I totally do , you know , I totally do and like so I was like you know , this journal staying in this house and I don't want to risk losing it

Facing Truth Through Honesty

Speaker 1 30:40

and I'm gonna be 100% in it , like there's no room there's , like I'm going to no lies , no like ops , like trying to make it different , like you know , just a hundred percent honest . And I . So I did . And then I did the grieving ceremony . Then then suddenly it was like okay , I'm , I'm being honest with myself , right and right . And so I'm like I'm just honest with myself . I could still say white lies to like get out of things or whatever . And then it became even more like I just need to be honest . Like being lying outside and then being honest in the inside is just not feeling good . You know , it's just confusing me , you know .

Speaker 1 31:19

So now I'm having to just be honest on the outside and honest on the inside and honest in the journal you know and and that has been like brilliant , because you know I'll sit here drinking tea and something will happen , like I'll just start to feel like uh , an attachment or something with my phone , something will trigger me on my phone or something Right , and instead of just like suppressing it , like pushing it away and be like I'm fine , you know , everything's good , I'm just going to move on to do some stuff , which is what I've done for a very long time .

Speaker 2 31:54

Is everything fine , or are you saying it to feel that everything is fine ?

Speaker 1 31:57

That's what I'm saying , like that's everything's not fine , but I'm just like I'm telling myself everything's fine , putting that to the side , like I'm good , and then I'll maybe I'll eat some food or I'll watch a movie or I'll like distract myself in some way you like , regulate your nervous system right , but recently it's been just like nope , like what's this ?

Speaker 1 32:18

and just being 100 honest and being looking at it . And you know if I'm real , like the past few days I've been rough , you know , super tender , oh , and like , if you look at it from the outside , I'm just chilling in my house .

Speaker 1 32:31

You know what I'm saying on the inside , yeah , yeah right , I'm like I'm like crying , I'm like I'm like sobbing and I'm just like listening to these songs that are very sad and I'm like what is happening , you know , um , and I'm like okay , and even once , like , you started playing some of the songs that were like it's actually like took away some of the mysticism . To be honest , it's kind of it's like .

Speaker 2 32:56

Doesn't that remind you , though , of how much simplicity doesn't necessarily um indicate a lack of complexity ?

Speaker 2 33:06

you know so , cause I can have a myriad of emotions run through me from the time I like am laying in bed and wake up to the time I actually get out of bed . It can be like just this rollercoaster of all these different thoughts and feelings and it's like , wow , nobody else , nobody else . Anybody looking at this would be like , oh , she just like woke up and got out of bed , you know . But you're like , oh , I made it , yeah .

Speaker 1 33:30

That feel like when you're going through transition and you're constantly thinking about things .

Speaker 2 33:33

It's the like like even just getting out of your house . Sometimes you're like , fuck , I made it .

Speaker 1 33:37

Yeah , and really if anybody else were looking at you , if there were cameras everywhere , it would literally .

Speaker 2 33:41

It looked like you got up and you went to the bathroom . You went to the kitchen oh , you sat down and had some tea . You're like this calm , zen person and inside , as soon as you step outside the door , you're like yeah fuck , I made it , and like and you it . Just the simplicity isn't necessarily an indicator of lack of complexity , you know , and it's to see that in other people . You know that that is that's kind of what's helpful to remember when I go through things like that that , oh okay .

Speaker 1 34:09

That person looks like they're chilling , but they look like they're chilling , but I have no idea what's going on , you know , and it's , that's that complexity , that is , I mean complex personhood , personhood , right , like I think we are all complex and I think this idea that we are simple is just no , that we appear simple , that we appear simple like some people , but like I feel like there's this ideology going on .

Speaker 1 34:36

Like I'm just a simple person , I'm just a simple guy , blah blah . I'm like I have never met a simple guy . You know what I mean ?

Speaker 2 34:43

nope , I have never met that before no , I used to think that about my husband .

Speaker 2 34:46

I was like , oh , he's so chill , yeah , but like he's just so chill , he's just like and not simple , but like he's just like , he's just very content he did , and then I was like no , no , no , I'm like I am gonna bring it out of you yeah , I know there's more in there , because I'm taking this for granted . Like nobody is simple , yeah , you gotta be complex , and I think he's very complex , but I think he is also very chill and so there's a difference .

Speaker 1 35:15

Right , my like , for instance , like my natural personality is very mellow , but like , but , like the , the . Yeah , you can be chill and externally like stoic even , but inside there's like a lot of things happening , like you know , I think of a family member who I'm not going to name , but who is like you know who you are .

Speaker 1 35:40

Yeah , beautiful human being , right , they're beautiful human beings , like you know . I know there's like deep things because I've had conversations and I've seen it and I think we get used . Definitely , guys , a lot of guys strive to be that kind of the masculine archetype , right , the kind of stoic , strong , everything , simple and fine and whatever , and not really in touch with their emotions as much , you know , just kind of being like that kind of vibe because they see that as success , you know , in our society . But what happens with that , like what it takes to be , that takes years of suppression and years of like not facing things to the point where how you look at reality , like reality , like what's real is blurred and so it's like some things may just like .

Speaker 1 36:34

That's why , like , a lot of miscommunications happen . That's why all these things are like . Why don't you just listen to me ? Why don't all these arguments ? Because they're like they literally see a totally different reality , because they've been suppressing things so much . And I know this because I've done this . You know I've done this because it's easy for guys to do .

Speaker 2 36:52

I mean women do that in a lot of ways too . Everybody does it . I'm just speaking from my own experience .

Speaker 1 36:57

You know , and being around other guys too , like it's almost expected , like we don't just talk . Sometimes , a lot of times , it's just like oh yeah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , like it's . It's like surface level , but then when you say something deep , it's almost gives them permission to be like deeper .

Speaker 2 37:30

Then you realize that they're going through deeper and some people accept that and some don't I actually mike was just showing me this morning an snl skit , yeah where the wife asked the guy , the husband , hey , can you tell your friends to keep it down out in the living room ?

Speaker 2 37:35

but I heard it , I didn't see it . Yeah , and he goes out into the living room and instead of saying hey , keep it down , he drops an emotional like invitation and and she's like why didn't you just tell him to keep it down , or whatever I'm probably butchering this and he's like nothing silences a guy .

Speaker 2 37:49

A room full of men , more than intimacy or like inviting whatever , and that's not the words he used , but just the idea that , like inviting intimacy , like in with male relationships , it's an invitation and some people totally accept it and some people it's like well , you know , and it's , it's a , yeah , it's , it's an invitation and some people totally accept it and some people it's like , well , you know , and it's , it's a yeah , it's .

Speaker 1 38:08

it's something I've seen often . Luckily , santa Cruz is definitely leans more toward men who are very trying to be in touch with their feelings . Um from my , from my experience from being out and , like you know , um trying to organize men's groups and meetings and , like you know , um trying to organize men's groups and meetings and stuff you know .

Speaker 2 38:27

Well , and those ? But those are also men who would come to men's groups . So you're you're exposing yourself to people who are interested in in that .

Speaker 1 38:35

But , yeah , exactly Exactly , which is interesting because a whole , whole , whole slew of reasons . But I've just been like yeah , it's been crazy just sitting here and just facing shit , you know , and being like , well , today I feel this and that , and like also stopping , like letting myself be still , you know , instead of just like running around trying to fill up my schedules or fill up my weeks , like letting myself just sit in that stillness and like act from a place of like presence which is just like really just like you know getting in depth into your body , you know , really understanding like how you're moving , like I walk slower now , you know , and I'm okay with that , you know . I think I had song who asked them like what their pet peeve was , and they're like slow walkers ever since then I've been just like , oh man , but yeah , I just like take my time because I just want to be present .

Speaker 1 39:35

You know , I want to like notice what's happening in myself and like in my , my surroundings , and that's been like the best thing to like really like , when things come up in myself like I know I'm where , exactly where my body is happening , I know the emotion that I want to react like that that's coming up to face this , and then I have the story that I'm telling myself . Right , and the only way I could ever be aware of that is because I've been practicing just being present with it . You know , and it's really interesting . I just have never I've gone this deep before . But I haven't gone this deep Like where , you know , I told you I pulled the Oracle card , that was .

Speaker 2 40:19

Oh , I brought my Starseed Oracle . Oh , okay , that's awesome . I'm going to run out and get them when we take a break .

Speaker 1 40:25

Yeah , yeah yeah , Like diving for light , right , that's been the kind of theme . And even this morning I was like , okay , give me that . And I pulled it again . I was like what the hell is happening ? And I was like , okay , maybe I just need to read thoroughly

Complex Personhood Behind Simple Appearances

Speaker 1 40:41

, because the Sacred Rebels deck is like they're very known for having really long descriptions .

Speaker 2 40:48

Oh , wow , you know .

Speaker 1 40:50

And so I read it again and it was very aligned of like you're doing the right thing , like just let yourself go deep because there is a light to it . You know there is a light there and it's , you know , you know cliche again within yourself . And you know , I was telling you about the picture and it was like under the ocean and I thought that was really cool because it made me think of like the inner depth of the ocean , like the darkness in there , and how creatures have to generate their own lights down in the depth , and I was like man , and so it also gave me this trust , though Trusting that going through the darkness is worth it . And that's where I guess that's where I'm at . I'm still in the darkness , even though I don't want to be . I want to be , I'm impatient , I want to be out of the darkness already .

Speaker 2 41:39

Abso-fucking-lutely . Everything in me is this you know , when you it's like I , everything in me is this you know , when you it's like , for example , I do this thing I do it less now , but where I'll hold it when I have to pee , yeah , and there's nothing stopping you from getting up and just going to the bathroom , you know it's better for you . You'll feel better Like just go to the bathroom , yeah , but there's better for you . You'll feel better Like just go to the bathroom , but there's still this like I don't want to that feeling . And there's I mean there's multiple , there's so many ways to talk about it . But just especially when you know you and I have talked about like it's sick If we , if we know something is cyclical , you know why freak out , why freak out ? And and there's all these like , even when it's it's the trained behavior , right , and I think that every cycle goes through and is like , oh , you haven't been practicing , here's where you're still need work .

Speaker 2 42:38

You know , it's those tests that come through to see if you can operate at a higher level , and so it's so freaking frustrating to be in a place where you're like I know , like I know it's okay . I know what the flow feels like . Yeah , I know what belief feels like . Yeah , I know what it means to reprogram Right . I know that I feel better when I reprogram and I do the work . I feel proud of myself . I know that I feel better when I reprogram and I do the work .

Speaker 2 43:07

I feel proud of myself . I know that I feel better when I , like , am totally in my surrender and trust muscle because I've done all the work . I and I know from historical evidence that it always works out , usually better than I can ever imagine . Yeah , yeah , I can say all of that out loud and know it consciously , and there's still something in me that's like but let me try to make this happen . Or like , let me , let me just let me like think about all the different ways instead of like no , you actually like that doesn't help you . You actually know like . You know how to channel , you know how to get into your higher self .

Speaker 1 43:41

You know how to ask for information to come to you when you need it .

Speaker 2 43:45

It sounds like pure magic , but it is yesterday's magic which is today's science . There are reasons we think this way . There are reasons we act this way . We know that this is real , it's actual , it's freaking magic .

Speaker 1 43:57

I'm going to call it magical science . Yeah , this whole description is yesterday's . What did you say ? Yesterday's magic is today's science . Because you know like , yeah , I'm not gonna go on a whole rant about colonialism and all that stuff right now , but like it's true and I don't know I'm , I'm , it's because we live in this like story , that like things like manifestation , for example , when you don't look too deeply at it , it looks like woo-woo , right . When you just look on the outside , you're like you could think it and it happens , right . But when you dive deep into , like actual , the brain , chemistry , the idea of presence of the things that it takes to be like magnetic or like to be or have charisma is like our fancy term for that . It requires a lot of like behavioral things , behavioral sciences . It requires like even like down to pheromones coming off people . You know like these are not . This is not just some kind of like woo-woo thing just because it's it's , it's seen that way from the surface and I think the problem with me it seems simple , but it's not .

Speaker 2 45:22

It's complex .

Speaker 1 45:24

The problem with my brain is that there's still part of me that buys that full story , right that this is , this is all woo woo Right ? It's been taking me years to come out as being like I like astrology or I like these things , or I'm like yeah right , I'm woo , yeah , yeah .

Speaker 2 45:42

And .

Speaker 1 45:49

Because I know it makes it like I feel like it lowers my credibility as like a human in this society , and I hate thinking that way , but I feel like that's what it does . But I'm like I'm at this point now in my own life where I'm just like fuck that you know , like I need to exist as I am and I need to practice this trust in knowing who I am and what I'm here to do Because , for one , we don't have a lot of time here in this body . For two , like I want to be my fullest potential and the only way to do that is to lean into what I am and me hiding these parts of myself or feeling like I have to , like you know more . For shift has been exhausting and it's causal . It's I think that's literally what's caused my like depression . Well , you know absolutely .

Speaker 2 46:42

I think that that's what usually causes depression . There's like there's something that you're it's like , it's like like something that's in a box that's trying to get out and you're straining to hold it in yeah , your muscles are like , Ooh , until you just burst because you can't .

Speaker 2 46:56

You don't have , nobody can hold that in . You know , this thing that's supposed to , and once it's out , there's a little bit of chaos and you know it's kind of like what ? What is that ball that moves it ? That ? The fledgers in Harry Potter , the bludgers , oh , bludgers , oh yeah , it's like that . It's like this thing that you're holding in and you don't want people to see it and as soon as you like , let it out . It's , it's chaotic yeah at first and you're just like dodging all the shit that it's throwing at you .

Speaker 2 47:24

And then at some point you make friends with it and it settles inside yourself and you're like , oh , actually , now that you actually you came out of me and you cleared the chaos , was you clearing out all the shit around me that didn't align with the me that I really am ? And then it settles . It's this tool , you know , it's that . It's literally a tool that comes out of you to clear the nonsense in your life . And it's we , but we love the nonsense you know we love it and I love nonsense .

Speaker 2 47:56

You know , for me at least , there's that feeling of who am I without this stuff ? And every time I let go of something that I have that kind of question around I , the answer is I'm more myself and I'm more at peace . I have all that and even knowing that , I still cling tirelessly to the nonsense .

Speaker 1 48:16

I cling to it because it's what I know . Tell me about the nonsense .

Speaker 2 48:19

For I don't know right now . You know , going through this , I feel like I'm coming out of the spiritual closet .

Speaker 1 48:25

Yeah .

Speaker 2 48:25

You know and so even talking to someone and trying to explain that where I get some of my information that helps me to make decisions instead of saying oh , I just you know . I say oh , I had an intuition and so I went and looked , instead of saying my fucking spirit guide told me . I asked them and they told me and I went and did this thing and they were correct per usual , and I I shift that the language around it for certain people instead of just saying what it actually is for me .

Speaker 1 48:55

That's such a test .

Speaker 2 48:56

It's such a test and it keeps coming up and it's totally fine , but also what that does for me to be in my authenticity with that . It will change the way that people treat you . But we're all here to teach people how to treat us constantly and I think that that's something that we constantly need to be revisiting . And it's a little bit awkward when you're teaching someone a new way of treating you . I remember years ago when I got off Facebook , there was a transitional period where I just missed all the invitations to things and eventually friends were like why didn't you come to this or why didn't ? Or they'd text and be like , are you on your way ? And I'm like I have no idea what you're talking about . And it got to be a thing where eventually , people would text me and they would just invite me directly and I was okay with that .

Speaker 2 49:39

Once it was like I am just , I am not involved , I'm not on Facebook . And I did get back on Facebook , but it was this moment where I was like that's . I accepted that . I was like I'm just in transition and it means I'm going to miss some things . There's going to be more parties , there's going to be more things . It'll be fine , and I wish that I could get into that kind of acceptance with the transition I'm in now and I think I'm hitting that wall where there's certain . You know , I want to seek the truth . I am really desiring these like more material manifestations .

Speaker 1 50:12

Yeah .

Speaker 2 50:13

And I think the universe is throwing me things to help me shift , to get there , and there's things I'm clinging to that I'm trying to be open to everything I believe could be wrong and I'm like , oh , but I really like that one , but I really like that one .

Speaker 1 50:29

I really like that one . Well , I think that's you know , like oh , I don't know .

Speaker 2 50:33

You know , and that other night when I had the like , it wasn't even when I was so high the day before you know , just so and high is a weird word , but like I was so aligned and so kind of on fire and it was , it was such a shift , in part because I think that's one of the first times in my life where my faith has been shaken .

Speaker 1 50:56

Yeah .

Speaker 2 50:56

You know , I've had moments where I've kind of been like but I in general , I feel like I have a really good self talk and I have really good spiritual belief and I've I . I think it was also just a reminder that , oh , you haven't been connecting .

Speaker 1 51:11

Yeah .

Speaker 2 51:12

You haven't been visiting your spiritual support system Because right now you're feeling ostracized in that way and you're not going there for the information that you

Grieving Ceremonies and Dark Portals

Speaker 2 51:23

normally get and the normal talk of like no , you're fine . What do we learn from this ? Where can we go ? We sent you this for a reason . What are you using in that ? And that's what . When I'm in that place where I see every single thing in my life that happens as a massive opportunity , it's this feeling of full on . I can't be shaken Like nothing can shake me . And that's how I felt when I came back from Mount Shasta like two years ago , I guess now , or almost three , but it was this total shift in full alignment with being of the earth , if that makes sense , not just operating and moving around on the earth , but being of the earth in a way that nothing could shake me .

Speaker 1 52:06

You belong , no matter where you are , wherever I am .

Speaker 2 52:09

And I remember getting back and the mural had been vandalized again and I was like , oh my God , I can't wait to see what happens with this . And I was like something really cool is going to happen and that's all it was . And I remember people being really upset about it and I was like , oh , I'm not there , I shouldn't be so excited about this . And it wasn't the excitement over what happened , it was like , oh , I know that when big things like this happen , it means that something else is on the other side of it right you know , and that's the thing that left me yeah and it's almost like a little muse yeah that .

Speaker 2 52:43

That was that little , this little type of sprightly energy around me kind of it . Well , I think , I don't think so . I think it's , it's there , I think it's part of it is is like the a connection yeah , but I think the test this time was like you have not been communicating with me and now I need you to go deeper yeah to come and communicate with me , to call me back into your life .

Speaker 2 53:04

That feeling , that , and that's like faith is a muse faith and belief are they are actual , like little , almost like entities that you have to feed to to you feed them and they feed you yeah , they , you know , it's this .

Speaker 1 53:19

I mean even the muscle analogy and all these other analogies like it's . It's literally reciprocal .

Speaker 2 53:25

Yeah , it's a reciprocal relationship . Yeah , just the download , that , that that reciprocal relation , like I hadn't really thought about it , that that way , until talking about it now . And you know , I know that there's everything is a trust muscle when you're shifting . But I didn't realize that my relationship with my faith and my belief , that's one that I I've always taken it for granted . Because , I've always been such a just faith spiritual .

Speaker 2 53:51

Like I've always just kind of like I have always . The self-talk has always been there , but there's something about the self-talk that didn't work this time , you know . It was like oh , actually that that muscle hasn't been worked , or whatever .

Speaker 1 54:06

You know , and I even just thinking of it as an entity . I really liked that idea because it's I think , when we think of something in like a like as a spirit guide or something like that , it allows us to give it autonomy you know , and understand , we understand it . We understand it better and quicker versus like it's just a muscle . You know it's like it's . It actually has a feeling to it .

Speaker 2 54:33

You know an energy to it yeah , I , I'm like this just blew my mind the faith thing . Actually I'm like thinking maybe I didn't because my words are always there , like I like again with the self-talk . But I think this was one of the first times I questioned yeah faith . Like usually , it's right under the surface and I'm always like , okay , I know it's there . This feels shitty . Whatever I'm going through , it's super shitty the surface and I'm always like , okay , I know it's there .

Speaker 2 54:53

This feels shitty . Whatever I'm going through , it's super shitty . I don't like this , but it's super rare in my life that I'm like maybe all this is bullshit .

Speaker 1 55:01

Yeah .

Speaker 2 55:02

And this was the first time maybe I think I've done this like twice in my life , yeah , and this was one of those times where I went from being so on it and I had that moment where I was like maybe all of this is bullshit and I think it it it like it offended faith , you know , but it also it it it drew some shame from me because it was like you know that that's not true .

Speaker 2 55:28

Like you know that's not true , it's like when you say something really horrible to your partner which is also pretty rare , you know Um , but it was that kind of a feeling , like I like oh dang , I just , and I really deeply felt that where I questioned and I think it's for everyone , Everyone should question their faith . You should question things , but it's like something that I have had , I have been fed with Totally . I like questioned whether it's like questioning whether the food in front of you is real .

Speaker 1 55:58

Yeah .

Speaker 2 55:58

Like if your mom put a plate of food in front of you and you're like I'm not going to eat that Cause . That's not real .

Speaker 1 56:02

Yeah .

Speaker 2 56:03

You know you'd be . She'd be like I just made all this food for you . And you're going to like . I'd be so offended , I so offended .

Speaker 1 56:18

I'd be like if you were just in this phase where you're like it's not real , I'm not gonna eat it and throw it , threw it away , and that's what it feels like I did with within that moment of of questioning . Why do you think you ? You got to that moment , like what , what like ?

Speaker 2 56:24

let's be honest , you know , I know , I think that that's what I've been trying to settle or solve in the past two weeks , and I think it was . I wonder if it was chemical too , because in my fall from grace like the partying , I did some drugs and that was the biggest shame thing . It was like it was this , but even before then , like , yeah , what was the ?

Speaker 1 56:45

what was like ?

Speaker 2 56:47

what part of you , I guess , like I haven't been able to put my finger on it and that's why that's . I think that's why it's been so baffling this time , and even just processing it right now , it was like I think , ah , I , I think the deepest part of me has a little bit of shame because I didn't believe in myself . You know the , the , the flying high and being in this place that I had never been before high and being in this place that I had never been before .

Speaker 2 57:14

It's kind of like when you're , you know , for lack of a better phrase like when you're on DMT and you kind of peek your head above the clouds and people have had that experience and it's like , oh my God , that's what it felt like the day before . Like . I was in this other dimension of beingness . And it was so extremely real . It's so real that I brought back information with me .

Speaker 1 57:35

Yeah .

Speaker 2 57:36

Right , and so the next day to look at that experience that I had I'm not talking about DMT now . I'm talking about just of being so solid and feeling like this is what full alignment feels like . And I know that this is where my future self my wisest self when I'm doing my life's work , self which I always put off for another day it was like , finally , that feeling of like , oh my gosh , I'm ready to do my life's work , like I'm ready , I'm ready to step into that .

Speaker 2 58:08

And so and then it was like to to like not follow through .

Speaker 1 58:13

Yeah .

Speaker 2 58:14

It was like how did all that happen and how was I allowed to feel all that ? Yeah , If it wasn't so , if it wasn't true ?

Speaker 1 58:22

Do you think there was some kind of rebelliousness there ?

Speaker 2 58:25

I think there was certainly a fear of of you know the responsibility of responding to your life's calling or responding to to that call of getting deep responsibility right , yeah , the ability to respond .

Speaker 1 58:37

There's the fear of what it means to respond yeah , because , like I don't know , when I hear that story , what it brings up in me is like this kind of I mean it sounds really strange and it could be a really bad analogy . But like the whole lucifer thing , right , this idea that this guy was like the highest angel he wanted to be , he wanted to be even higher , you know , and then like that's what caused the fall , you know , I mean I'm going on a lot of details .

Speaker 1 59:02

But like you know this idea that even you're calling it your fall from grace , like you know what I mean , like you're kind of affirming that .

Speaker 2 59:08

What's interesting is , I've had many falls from grace , you know , and there's something , and this one seemed so trivial . It should have seemed so trivial , yeah , but for some reason it made a bigger impression on me .

Speaker 1 59:19

Yeah .

Speaker 2 59:23

And I think part of . I think honestly there is a spiritual component to this . I think that I talked to my ancestors in the morning and I think they saved me from something really big .

Speaker 1 59:35

And you know like , let's be real , like you have now around you reflections with , like your husband , with me , with like all these other people . There was much more , like there's more counter reflections around you than I think normal . So , like I think I don't know .

Speaker 2 59:49

like you know , like I think I reached out to the counter reflections .

Speaker 1 59:53

Yeah , yeah , you did .

Speaker 2 59:54

You did , you know , because that's what I'm definitely looking for , but there I think , I do think that there was something spiritual yeah that this was a bigger fall . Not a fall , but a bigger it , even though it didn't seem like risk taking yeah there was something very spiritual about it yeah that was bigger and I'm feeling it emotionally and I can't put a finger on it yet .

Speaker 2 1:00:17

But even the idea that , like my ancestors , potentially saved me from something and there's a part of my internal dialogue that knows that and and hasn't it hasn't been revealed to me yet yeah but just the idea , the feeling . The next day in talking to my ancestors , it was this like whoa , you were there . Holy shit , like you were there , why were you there ?

Speaker 2 1:00:38

Oh my gosh , you know , and that , like , like , we protect the feeling of being protected , and so that doesn't happen all the time , especially in some when you're , like , out at a bar and it just feels very trivial , and so to have that deep feeling of like , oh shit , this could have whatever this was , so it's impactful in a different way and I'm still feeling that , without having the conscious awareness of the exact thing that it could have been . And so there's , I think , honestly , I think that is what is happening in me right now , and so there's part of me that wants to play detective , and there's part of me me that's like no , this is your moment yeah get in fucking alignment yeah , I think it's just .

Speaker 1 1:01:18

You know , from from my own experience , it's like things like that that you can't put your finger on , are here , right they ?

Speaker 2 1:01:28

they are here , they , they , yeah , I feel like my body

Faith as a Relationship and Entity

Speaker 2 1:01:30

knows , they know .

Speaker 1 1:01:31

But it's like for us to really conceive and really be honest with that , we have to be at that certain vibration for it to resonate . It's like tuning a guitar or you see those things where you hit one metronome and it's all out of order out of order and then the next thing you know they're all just going in the same frequency . It's like our bodies aren't tuned sometimes to receive the information you know and right now your body and your mind are not tuned to receive this information yet .

Speaker 2 1:02:03

Clearly , I mean my opinion .

Speaker 1 1:02:04

No , I think you're 100 right and like just based on , like I'm not , I'm saying you and no , it is me . I'm saying also like there is a lack of information with myself , with myself every time I get into this like kind of stillness , like working on myself , working on my internal world , and even now I'm going deeper and things start arising that now I'm ready to be able to actually face .

Speaker 1 1:02:26

Like it's almost like if you had an angel there who was like looking at all the things you have to face to become your greatest self . And they're just like , like he's going to take that this way right now , you know he's going to take that he's . I know his he's not strong enough in that muscle yet or in that like awareness , and then , right when you get to a point when you're he can handle this , here you go and it's like , it's like a protector , almost , you know well , totally it .

Speaker 2 1:02:52

Yes , yeah , it's all .

Speaker 2 1:02:53

Yes , it's just like a protector almost you know , Well , totally yes , yeah , yes , there is , there is something to that . And the other thing that I think we talked about maybe a week ago or two weeks ago-ish just the idea that to know , you know , it could like you just said this , but it will be revealed the more I just go in I know the direction I'm going in the more I do that it could be revealed or it could not , but what I know is it was this , this sign to turn this way , you know . So there is that , and so I think leaning into that too is the is the whole thing , and when you're calling in big things , you get bigger tests , and there's probably also a part of me that wants this to be a massively big test yeah because I want massively bigger things in my life , the things that I'm calling in , and so there , there's that too .

Speaker 2 1:03:45

It's like how much of that is my ego and how much of it is like it's just time , well I think some of it is just fucking time and there's a logic to it .

Speaker 1 1:03:52

It it sounds like from hearing you and I think we've discussed this , but what's coming up is a lot of my attraction has been to be this thing and that thing inspires me and , yeah , inspires me and like wants me to . You know , become it . Like if it's a thought leader , if it's a this or that , like my ego wants that . But attraction isn't random and over time , I think , to get to that , there is like a level of things you have to do and you have to face to get to that . You know , that's why there's like archetypes and the ego's hero's journey and all these different things like that . Right , and you know , I think it's natural for to face the darkness . It's like if you have , if you haven't dived that deep , you're not giving yourself the capacity to have that much joy either . You know , like if you dive , very deep .

Speaker 2 1:04:53

It expands the capacity for everything . It expands for everything , everything .

Speaker 1 1:04:57

That's the thing . But yeah , Abby , thanks for coming on my new podcast this is great , I wouldn't do it again .

Speaker 2 1:05:05

Yeah , yeah , yeah , of course , just to you with Thomas .

Speaker 1 1:05:07

I know it feels like we should just like do this . So , yeah , thank you , thank , like like do this .

Speaker 2 1:05:12

So yeah , thank you . Thank you , this has been expansive for sure . I'm like oh man , it is , there's more yeah .

Speaker 1 1:05:20

Well , thank you for listening to everybody . Have a good day .