“Learning to Trust My Body Again” — Pregnancy After Loss and Healing with Ummul Patrawala

Ummul Patrawala shares her journey through multiple pregnancy losses, including the stillbirth of her daughter Sakina at 38 weeks, and how those experiences shaped her understanding of the deep connection between trauma and the body. In this episode, we explore motherhood after loss, the physical and emotional imprint of grief, and how her rainbow baby helped her begin to rebuild trust, connection, and safety within herself. This conversation is a powerful reflection on healing after stillbirth, pregnancy after loss, and the evolving identity of motherhood in the after.

We talk about:

• The story and meaning behind Ummul’s name and identity as “the mother of all mothers”
• Navigating stillbirth and the loss of her daughter Sakina at 38 weeks
• The physical impact of grief, including autoimmune conditions, IBS, and chronic pain
• PTSD and the body’s response to unresolved trauma after pregnancy loss
• Rebuilding trust in your body during pregnancy after loss
• The emotional complexity of welcoming a rainbow baby
• Motherhood after loss and holding both grief and hope at the same time
• Supporting women through the invisible impact of trauma on the body
• Learning to listen to your body instead of disconnecting from it

This episode is a powerful reminder that grief and beauty can coexist — and that birth, even in loss, can absolutely be sacred.

Get to know Ummul:

Ummul Patrawala is a mother to three boys and five angel babies, living in Mississauga, Ontario. After experiencing profound pregnancy loss, including the stillbirth of her daughter Sakina at 38 weeks, her path shifted in a deeply personal way. Today, she is a psychotherapist who supports women navigating the physical and emotional effects of trauma — including chronic pain, autoimmune conditions, and pelvic health challenges. Her work is rooted in helping women reconnect with their bodies, rebuild trust, and feel seen in experiences that are often overlooked.

Instagram: @ThriveHolisticCoaching
Website: www.hopetherapyjourney.com

Connect with Kristin:
📍 Website: thedoulalife.ca
🌈 The Haven — Pregnancy After Loss Community Program: thedoulalife.ca/haven
🌸 Mother Like No Other — Loss Mom Community: thedoulalife.ca/mother
📸 Instagram: @the.doula.life

If you enjoyed this episode, please don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review — it helps get these stories and resources into the hands of the women who need them most. And please share it with someone who could use this kind of support. Your support means so much.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

All I remember is hearing that there was no heartbeat. Baby had stopped moving. Baby had passed. And just like what I felt in the moment is what I can connect with. Like there was a blackout period. I feel like I almost wasn't there. I went out of my body when he said that. And then I think I stayed out of my body. Then he said, We're so sorry. We're gonna admit you. And then you will well induce you and you you will give birth to the baby. And you know what's really sad, Kristen, is that I had disassociated and I got so scared. And I want to name this for other women because this is something we don't talk about. Is that all I wanted to do, I got so scared that my first thought that I can remember is, oh my God, get her out of me. It felt like suddenly there was something in me that was hostile, was the feeling that came, which blows my mind, right? Even today, that I would have felt that, but that was my survival system.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Welcome to the Rainbow Connection. This podcast was designed for mothers who are finding their way through life after loss. Whether you're grieving, trying to conceive again, newly pregnant, or holding hope in your heart for what's to come, this space is for you. Each week you'll hear real and tender stories. Stories of love, heartbreak, healing, and the babies who continue to shape us. I'm your host, Kristen Mundy, a mother, doula, and a woman who's walked this path too. May these conversations remind you that you are not alone, that your baby is never forgotten, and that hope and grief can live here together. Before we begin today's episode, I want to take a moment to talk to you. Just you. If you are a lost mom in any season of this journey, I want you to know that I created something with you in mind. Whether you are newly grieving, trying to conceive again, not sure of what comes next, pregnant after loss, or parenting a living child while still carrying the babies who aren't here. You are welcome. I have a free community called the Dual Life Community, and it's a space where lost moms can gather without having to explain themselves. A place where you don't have to shrink your grief, you don't have to tone down your hope, and you definitely don't have to pretend like you're okay. Inside you'll find other women who understand this journey. There are message boards, free workshops, shared stories, and gentle resources. But more than anything, there is connection. It's completely free and it's growing. And it was built to feel like a soft place to land. If your heart has been craving that kind of space, you can join us at thedualalife.ca slash community. I'd love to see you inside. Today's episode is one that feels both grounding and expansive at the same time and in the most unexpected way. I get the privilege of sitting down with Umal, a mother, psychotherapist, and a woman whose journey through pregnancy loss, including the stillbirth of her daughter Sikina, has shaped the way that she shows up in the world today. In this conversation, we talk about motherhood after loss, the way trauma imprints on the body, and what it can look like to slowly and gently rebuild trust in yourself and in your body again, especially in a pregnancy after loss. Umal brings such a deep reflective presence to this conversation. She is an absolute joy to talk to, and I know so many of you will see parts of your own story in hers. Okay, enough from me. Let's hear from Umal. Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Rainbow Connection. Today I am joined by Umal. Hi, Umal. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Thank you, Kristen, and thank you for creating this beautiful space.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

I'm so I'm so excited to have you here today. Uh, we were just chatting before we press record, as we always do. And Umal was one of actually the first people I have ever heard speak publicly about loss. Um, this was so long. This probably was like 10, eight to ten years ago. Um so I'm really excited to have her come on here today. It kind of feels full circle for me. Umal is going to be sharing about her journey to motherhood, through motherhood, and how that has shaped her pretty much her entire life now, as it does. Um, but before we dive into Omal's story, Umal, why don't you introduce yourself to our listeners?

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Absolutely. Thank you, Kristen. Um, so my full name is Omar Kiram. Go with Omal. And um where I want to start is uh with just my name, because I think that my name sort of has this vibration of like a story that was going to unfold that I didn't even know about. So maybe this is a good place to start. Um my name, uh the full name, Umal Kiram, is um comes from the Arabic dialect. And each, I guess, name given in my culture has a frequency and a vibration that almost is an oracle to the journey or the contribution that that soul is going to make on this planet. And so my name was gifted by someone who had that um that intuitive ability to sort of attune to the energies that were coming through my mom and uh was chosen and given, you know, before I was born. And what um alkiram sort of means, and uh a very sort of symbolic translation of it, is uh the mother of all mothers and um a really giving mother. So I'm gonna sort of translate the literal into like the symbolism of uh the one who nurtures all and um mothers, all the other mothers. And I, you know, for a long time struggled with that name because it's very unusual. When I was growing up, that name became a place where I believe a lot of um what who I am today got shaped because it wasn't accepted, it was made fun of. So uh there was a reclaiming that had to happen with my name when I recognized, when I grew old enough to recognize and reflect back on my journey of what does this mean and how the universe has asked me to serve. And that is my name. It's uh nurturing my mother energy and other moms, other nurturers who are out there doing what they love to do.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

And well, you definitely do have I'm just to affirm you. Yes, I feel that energy. Anytime even I like hear about you, or even when I'm just now as I'm talking to you, I can feel that energy. So that is really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for naming that, Kristen. So that is my I am, I guess, right? Um, which I have been on a journey to really embody and allow an authentic expression of that I am. So how that looks in the world, in the language of the world, would be that, you know, my mission now, in where I still hold space for mostly mums and women who are on a journey of reclaiming their power. And usually it now looks like it shows up as suffering, as pain, as chronic conditions in their body. And how might I support them in a really holistic way to really the essence of all of it is to learn to nurture their own versions of self, their younger versions of self. And in doing that, then show up as the nurturers that they want to be in the world. Um, so that is my mission, that is how I serve right now, and that is how I live right now. With that, I have been blessed. I have three children earth side, and I have I always have to pause and count how many children I have in the ethers. But I have uh five children in the ethers. And um the my older two are uh adults, I would say my youngest is still Levin, and we'll sort of go into that journey of you know, the unfolding and my own journey through loss, and I would say my own um rising to really step into this mission that I shared with you, my name and the vibrational essence and how I was meant to serve on the planet and how that was birthed out of um I would say the darkest moments of my life. So that is who I am right now, and um I you know how it shows up will continue to evolve. And um, do you feel, Kristen, this is a good place to start to share a little bit about my journey as sort of the before, you know, before I stepped into this essence and then the becoming into umal curam.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah, let's hear it.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Perfectly.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

So yeah. So my journey started. Um, I grew up in India and I moved here when I was 18. I chose to be uh spend the rest of my life with my current partner and uh immigrated here, did all the things that were needed, uh, went to school, and I was that young girl uh with bright, shiny eyes, right? I had dreams and hopes, and I always knew I wanted a really big family. Uh me and my partner both were very aligned with that piece. And before that, I needed to, you know, create a home and have a physical place where we could create that family space. So I was on a mission, and I felt like that mission best served if I went to school, studied business. So I did that. I was in the business world and I found like an awesome job, and I, you know, sort of would say had like the perfect uh career and the perfect trajectory early on. It felt perfect then. And the world confirmed that it was perfect because I was working in the corporate um in a corporate uh world doing the job that others wish they had uh in marketing and loving it. I was having a great time and externally felt like I was loving it. Um and that continued um until I think it was a few years into the corporate career that we decided that I was ready to have my firstborn. And um, that pregnancy was easy. I had my first, actually, that is my second born. I had another pregnancy um early on that I don't speak to a lot that I chose to terminate. And I feel like the journey had already started from that point on. And everything after that was sort of happening beneath the scenes. I just didn't know what I hadn't yet processed and what had happened to me. So sort of blissfully, I was getting ready for my second child, who is my first child earth side. Uh, got pregnant, had him resign from that really grueling corporate career in like the city and sort of moved into a suburban corporate career. I thought that would be okay for my family life balance. Uh, continued that, got pregnant again, like right after that one, because I had a plan, right? My mind was like plan, structure. And um going into that job, I thought that I had downgraded and slowed my life down, but I have memories of my first one coming in at like 6 p.m. and saying, Are you gonna come home, mama? Um, and I was torn because I wanted to go home because this is what I always wanted. And we created that home and a house and a structure. Um, but I didn't know how. I didn't know how to say no to what I had taken on in my career, and also say yes to me and my child and my family. So I that struggle continued. I had my second. And after my second, I went back into that career because the plan for our family was that, you know, when I have when we have our third child, then I will resign and I will stay home happily ever after and take care of my kids. That was our plan. So I continued to work. And when I went back after my second, already like the whispers in my body were starting to get louder. Um, and I was really good.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

What were those whispers saying?

SPEAKER_01 13:42

The whispers were saying, listen and slow down. This, this, this way and this pace at which you're moving is not sustainable. Um, but I couldn't hear them. And it was actually physical. Like physical things were starting to happen. I noticed my digestion was starting to go off then. I noticed that I couldn't make the day without like four or five cups of caffeine. Um, I noticed that I started emotionally eating a lot, like the cravings were going up big time, like and my consumption of like food that would nurture me was reducing. And the food that almost was masking those emotions that I hadn't yet felt and the feels was like increasing. Um, so now here I am, had two children back to back, right? Went back to work shortly after the second Matt leave, and still not being able to show up for either of them. And my second one had a lot higher needs, a lot more appointments. And unfortunately at that point, I I couldn't I couldn't help out. It had to be my partner who carried the load single-handedly in terms of the boys and what they needed. Um, so that heaviness lived in me. I didn't know that. I just pressed it down somewhere real far, so I couldn't feel it. Um eventually, in the quest to become pregnant for my third, we kind of hit a bit of a hiccup. It was really hard to get pregnant with my third, which shocked me because the first two were fine. Um, this time around, it took us a while. Um, finally, after about eight months of trying, we went to the fertility route because I wanted to get have a baby and I it wasn't working, right? My plan wasn't following out the way I wanted. Um got followed by the fertility clinic and they ran a lot of invasive tests and um nothing came out of them. Um essentially, the person did not have any, you know, there's nothing wrong with either of you. You should be able to conceive. Um, and and then if, you know, continue trying, and if not, then they can assist, right? There were always other options to go via the fertility route. So we continued to try. Um and I was meanwhile still hustling, right? Like doing all those things that I spoke to, and the invisible whispers were getting louder, digestion was getting worse. I think my health was actually starting to deteriorate. I just couldn't see it. And I wouldn't let myself see it.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Well, when you're busy like that, it's hard to see it, right? Because oh goodness.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Yes. And you're constantly masking with caffeine and constantly dopamine yourself with food and yes, and I made myself so busy, Kristen, so busy that I would I still remember the voices of my friends who would be like, How do you do all of this? Like, how do you have like such a like an awesome career and two kids and a home and a husband and you're doing it all, and you have parents, because I also sponsored my parents in the meantime from India and they immigrated and we hosted them. Like there was a lot happening, right? And I was like, Oh, like, I don't know, uh isn't that what we do? Right. So kept going. Eventually, I we did get pregnant with my with our, I'm gonna say our fourth, yeah, by then, um, child. And that pregnancy, it right at the get-go, now the whispers started getting a little louder. They were not whispers anymore. Now it was exhaustion that was so strong that literally I would have to reel myself to get out of bed to put on clothes and go to work. And I remember through the pregnancy starting to now voice to my partner, but I didn't really recognize it. So I would sort of voice it like, I'm really tired. Like, I I don't know how like we'll go through this pregnancy, but I'm really tired. Um, and he's like, You're almost there, you know, when we're like our plan is you're gonna resign after this one.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

It's like the last push, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Yeah. Okay. So I'm like, you're right, you know, I can do this. We'll we'll do this. Um, so it was really hard because once I got pregnant, I was not gonna have caffeine. So I had to get off caffeine. Uh now it was like, oh my God, the exhaustion. Um, and pregnancy fatigue is real, right? I didn't have that awareness then. So that I'm trying to push through that. And I'm also trying to push through a body that literally is on its last drink, right? I just didn't know it yet. So kept pushing, um, kept showing up at work, and literally every day I would feel like I ran a marathon. Like, you know, my eyes would sting. My body literally felt like my muscles, like there was an ache and a pain in the body that was inexplicable. Um, and I'm amazed now how I even sort of was able to move through it all. Like today I could feel it, I would stop and I would resource, but I was so disconnected from my body that I could just keep overriding all those signals. Um at about the as so the timing is really um appropriate right now as we're recording this, because I felt like in my mind, this is when what I used to say back then, things went downhill in that pregnancy, is it was uh October 31st. And I was about, I want to say, um, not yet three months pregnant, and I was considering announcing that in my workplace because I was starting to show and I wanted everyone to know and you know just be happy. Um and it was Halloween morning, and I remember waking up and I used the washroom and I was bleeding. And literally my heart like stopped beating, I felt like in that moment, because I'd never experienced something like that. So I thought, oh my god, I just miscarried, like I lost this pregnancy. And so I panicked. I told my partner and I said, something's wrong. Like I'm bleeding, this doesn't make sense. Like, am I pregnant? Like, um, so we rushed, we rushed to ER on Halloween and uh waited, eventually got seen, they did an ultrasound, and uh in the ultrasound they said actually everything is fine, babe's fine, uh nothing wrong, you know. Um, and they said, follow up, follow up with your family doctor and just look into what's happening. All right. We come back, the bleeding's not stopping, like it keeps going, and it's like a pretty heavy bleed by now. And I'm already exhausted from like everything that's happening, and now I'm losing a lot of blood and more exhaustion. Um, while I'm still going back to work, while all this is happening, we're investigating what's going on. Eventually I I get told that I had this really large subcore subcorionic hemorrhage. And my Obi joked with me and said, Ha, that's like the largest one I've seen.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Like so funny.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yeah, he he found it really funny. I I didn't even know, like, first of all, I didn't know what that was. I didn't know why he thought that was funny. Meanwhile, I was paralyzed by fear now because every time I still bled, my my brain was computing it as I'm losing the pregnancy. Even though he reassured me that babe was fine, it was a subcorionic, and the bleed can continue. There's no knowing how far it's gonna go, but that's just what it is. So I went back home, went back to work, bleeding is continuing, and now I started getting nightmares in the pregnancy. And this was the first time this was happening where I would have these vivid scenes of me waking up in ways that was very traumatizing, and uh and I had lost babe. And that would be the scene that would replay over and over. And this is like around like, you know, three months ish. Um and I couldn't explain like the terror was so real that. I would wake up shaking and like afraid the whole day. Um, and it continued. Finally, I realized that I was not going to be able to power through this one because there was nothing left in me. And so I went and saw my family physician. And he said, if you'd like, we can um, I can put you on bed rest and you can get a leave of absence from your work. Because he thought that that was the best move, given like how heavy the bleeding was and just what I was describing. Um, and so we agreed. And I put in the request from my work to go on leave. So I went on short, short-term leave at that moment and uh went on bed rest. And uh it was a complete bed rest because I was so scared, Kristen, of the bleed and what that meant that I I think my body had frozen and paralyzed and collapsed all at the same time. That the only thing I could do was be in bed rest. And the narrative in my mind is was that if I am on bed rest, that's gonna save me and baby. Um meanwhile, pregnancy is progressing. You know, babe's tracking fine. There's like no red flags for a babe. Uh, but my anxiety and my panic attacks were going to a level that I had never experienced before. I didn't know what a panic attack was till I got into that pregnancy. Um, so there were many more visits to the ER because I would feel like I was literally dying. I didn't know that that was a panic attack. And we'd come back, and then I, you know, I would temporarily feel better, and then that cycle would repeat. So that was the rest of the pregnancy, bed rest. By now, I had two children. They were four and five, if I'm not mistaking their ages, um, who were in service to their mother because their mother couldn't get up and do anything. Um, so they would take care of me and my partner, like doing his best to keep everything going. Uh, financially, that was a hit because I stopped working. My children were in private school. And it was a really hard time in always, um, at every level in the world and in like internally my world. As all of this is happening, the I think the scariest part for me was I had never stopped until now. And I felt like life had put these like real hard breaks on what was happening. So I didn't know how to be with myself and just lay on a couch, keep bleeding, and wondering if either me or babe were gonna make it, because that was my narrative. Someone's gonna die. Throughout the pregnancy, I knew someone was gonna die. And I thought it was me. So I was petrified because I didn't want to leave my boys behind. Um, and so that every day it was that narrative. The only thing that I think that kept me sane was faith. So I prayed. I prayed a lot. I never prayed so much in my life as I did then because that was my anchor. And we made it to 38 weeks. And um that is, you know, the magic number, right, for all of us. So finally, um on the 38th, like as soon as I touched down day one of 38 weeks, I decided, let's go out and celebrate. Today I will actually step out of the house and we will go to our favorite place. It was uh South Street Burger. Uh my boys used to love it. I used to love it. And we're like, we're like, we're gonna go there and we're gonna celebrate because I made it, baby's made it anytime she's gonna be here. And by then we knew that actually, we didn't know. We didn't know if we were having our daughter as yet. So we celebrated and uh came home. And it was I had this really um out-of-body experience when I was at the celebration. Um, almost like I had crossed into a different world, a different dimension. And I was in that dimension, and it was so overwhelming to my system that I like shut it down because I'm like, what is happening? I felt like I was gonna get dizzy and fall because I crossed into a different dimension, is how the only way I can explain it. Anyways, that happens. That was odd. I'm like, that's weird. Maybe it's just because I haven't stood up and gone outside for so many days, months. Um, anyways, we go back home and I'm laying back down, doing my usual. And suddenly by evening, I realize I can't feel her move. Um, so I'm like, that's weird. So I do all the things I know, apple juice and all the juices. And I'm like, okay, she'll move, she'll move. And after about a couple hours of doing that, I I shared that with my husband, feeling so scared to even like say that and say, she's not moving. And he's like, Did you try that? I'm like, yep. I said, can we go back to ER? So he said, Yeah, let's go back to ER. My boys were young, then this was nighttime. So we had to call our in-laws, and somebody came and watched the boys, and we left. We left in ER, and then they eventually it was my turn, and they ran an ultrasound. And the tech was just like, I don't know, felt like fiddling and fidgeting. And I'm like, what's wrong with this person? Like, hello, you know, tell me, tell me what's happening. Um and he when he looked at us, he I could tell that something had happened. Like, but even then, I always imagined it was gonna be me who was gonna die. So I was like, babe's okay. Um and and then he brought in the doctor, and we are still in like a room with like many other people, and and they came in and they um, and I I think this part is so blurred in my memory, but I'm gonna recall it the way I can right now. But I think I've for good reason my body has blocked out that time period of how they shared that. But all I remember is hearing that there was no heartbeat. Baby had stopped moving, baby had passed, and just like what I felt in the moment is what I can connect with. Like there was a blackout period. I feel like I almost wasn't there. I went out of my body when he said that. And then I think I stayed out of my body because then he said, We're so sorry, we're gonna admit you, and then you will um we'll induce you and you you will give birth to the baby. Um, and you know what's really sad, Kristen, is that I had disassociated and I got so scared, and I want to name this for other women because this is something we don't talk about. Is that all I wanted to do, I got so scared that my first thought that I can remember is, oh my God, get her out of me. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It felt like suddenly there was something in me that was hostile was the feeling that came, which blows my mind, right? Even today, that I would have felt that. But that was my survival system kicking in.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

I mean, I felt something similar too. I remember thinking, I need a C-section right now. Like, yeah, let's get this over with. Yeah. And like that's not who I am at all, or what I wanted, or what I ultimately even chose. But I just remember being like, this needs to be done. Like, let's move on. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

I almost wanted, I think what happened is I wanted to run away from it. Real fast. And I couldn't because I was in the hospital and babe's in me. So until they get her out, I can't run. And I felt paralyzed. And so my biggest thing was get her out. Get the baby out. Get the baby out. And then by then we had already received her name. So the same way my name was given by the high priest who has that sort of wisdom, he was the same high priest who had named her. So we had a boy name and a girl name given us both, and almost like with an emphasis of the girl name. Um, so I sensed that it was gonna be a daughter, because by then I had two boys. And her name was uh is Sakina. And Sakina means peace, like heavenly peace. So here I had carried this seed of peace all along, but everything that I felt was chaos. The seed of peace had unraveled chaos in a way that I didn't know existed inside me. It was there. But she like it, she just, you know, her soul brought it all to light. And um so I they got induced me, I gave birth to her, and this is the part that I grieved that even then, as I held her, there was this need to run. I wanted to run so bad.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

I couldn't even be present. And those are the uh moments that I wish I could undo.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Is I wish I like here's my body, right? Already starting to have that run energy. It's like I wish that run energy and I had the support, and someone could have anchored me and helped me understand that that was a protective instinct, and how do I create safety around it and be with what I will really want. Years later, I'm gonna look back and I'll want this. I didn't have that. And you know, it's so it's no surprise that I do that for women now and help them find safety inside them.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Well, it's so traumatic, right? And it's not uncommon to want to run away from your trauma. And I can only imagine like we've come a long way. We still have a really long way to go in supporting mothers through life-altering loss. But back then, you know, it was probably even worse, right? Like, and I I'm very sorry that you didn't have that person there for you.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

Thank you. Yeah. So as I reflect back on that, you know, for the women listening.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Sorry, umal.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Yeah. Outside is really loud, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Do you have a window open?

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Yes. Give me a moment.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

I think this one is fairly important, but I'm gonna close it.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Okay, how's that?

SPEAKER_00 33:09

A lot better. A lot better.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Yeah, there's someone a lot mowing at this point.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Yeah, weed whacking or something. Sorry, this is the worst time for me to interrupt you, but no problems.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

I'd rather that our audience can hear us because this is important. What I want to say is that if you are someone who's felt that, this need to flight or like not feel at all, um, there is no shame in that. I want to bring voice to that. That's your survival system. Because there isn't someone who can anchor you into safety in that moment. Because my person was my partner. And he too was flighting.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

And even when you talk about, you know, that moment where things kind of went black.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Even that was survival, right? Because my body was like, I'm protecting you through this. Like we cannot remember this. I'm out of here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So it's no surprise that today I am spend so much time understanding the survival biology and supporting other women. Um, create embodied ways of feeling safe with our survival mechanisms because this is I felt robbed of that experience that I wish I had.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

There was the loss, and there was the loss of being with the loss in a way that my present day self could have been that I couldn't access then.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_03 34:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

I know you're not alone in in in feeling that way, and I'm sure you've also processed this, but we often show up the best we could with the knowledge and tools we had, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Yes. Yes, absolutely. We do, we do. So I I I don't beat myself down for it. However, that is a grief that I acknowledge, I carry even today. Yes, I do miss and I wish that I could have slowed those moments down. I wish I would have felt safe enough to be with the time that I had with her. Because what also happened in the pregnancy that I want to name is because of my fears and my anxieties, I never connected with her. I was too scared to connect with her because the protective part in me was like if you get too close and if she leaves you or you leave her, that's gonna hurt more. So even throughout the pregnancy, Kristen, I never gave myself permission to bond with her ever.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

And that is also grief.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Of course. Of course. So what did what did that process afterwards kind of look like for you? Was that something that you recognized right away that you were unable to do that, or was this kind of a really long journey for you?

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Yes, a really long journey. The short answer is a really long journey. Um, because I continued to survive. So I had a really dual experience, and I'm gonna name it, and perhaps others will relate. What happened is in one aspect, um, I'm gonna use the word God. You know, I felt like there was this orchestration that had happened, you know, I always see it as like God's will, there is a greater plan here. And on one hand, something was taken. My daughter, and also a million dreams that came with that for me, my family, uh for extended family. And then on the other hand, as lost as I was and disassociated as I was, and this I still can't explain to date, is I was extremely clear in what my priorities were. I was extremely present to my children, to my surroundings. Uh, a presence took over me in a way that I started seeing life I like I had never seen before. The voice of my children felt different. Like I had never heard that voice before. Um, the way I could attune to their energies felt different. Like the way I could never attune to another human before. Um, it's almost like a superpower came in. That's the only way I can describe it.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Like another level of humanity, right? And um like another layer of the human experience that just like kind of shake, shook you and like woke you up.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Yeah, yeah. In a way that continues to give even in the work that I do today. And it never left, it stayed. And so shortly after that loss, uh, what was very crystal clear was I chose to resign from my corporate career. Um, I didn't I I just knew I had to. I knew that I wanted to spend more time with my boys. And I still was caught up in the chase of, but and I want to get pregnant. And we gotta try again very quickly for another one. Because I thought that was gonna fix it.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Yeah, which is not uncommon at all, right? Right. It's like a physiological need. I think you like when when you lose your baby, you kind of break the cycle, right? Because you're not meant to lose your baby and you have you're left with a body that has that ache. Like that ache is real, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Oh my goodness. Yeah, the ache is is there and you know, it shows up in different shapes, forms, and it's real, absolutely. So after resigning from corporate career, um, I was home. I spent most of my time baking. Now I realize how therapeutic that was. I just baked all day. All day. Um, so I found a new uh way to sort of soothe, I guess, my nervous system unknowingly. Um, and then I noticed my boys were so traumatized by the loss because when we came home, they their little eyes were looking at me like, where is our sibling? And I did not know how to tell them. Of course. Um, and I felt like I had failed them. You know, like just so then there was this like next level mom guilt that showed up in that moment. Like, not only did this not work out, and maybe I screwed this up by my fears and like da-da-da. And simultaneously, the guilt of like, oh, look what I have done to these two, is how I internalized it. I know that that was not true now.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Well, especially as being a mother, and you're like, mothers are supposed to protect your children, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Yeah. And and and I, and they were so excited to want to meet their sibling, and when I had to say no, um, they were so confused. Um, and because there was a seven-month process of them taking such good care of me in and and you know, and like with hopes and dreams that we all were holding on to. So, in that moment, I, the mothering part of me, who had not let understood that I needed to be mothered, chose that I needed to make sure they don't get traumatized by this. And so I started researching, and that's when mindfulness, meditation, yoga came more actively into my life. And we started uh meditating as a family, we started practicing mindfulness. I started teacher teacher training in yoga for children and um as a way to help them. As a way to help them. And so we did that simultaneously. I start I was uh we were trying again. I got pregnant. I carried that pregnancy for about eight-ish weeks. Um, when and and by now I was considered a high-risk pregnancy. So I was being tracked by my fertility center because we went back there because I wanted to understand why I had a stillbirth. I couldn't have to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

Yeah, did they give you did they give you any answers?

SPEAKER_01 41:37

No. No, never got any. No, there were no answers. And it was just like sometimes this happens. You happen to be that person, you know? And I just couldn't take no for an answer, right? So we're like, okay, let's go through the fertility route, investigate again, do more invasive stuff. Um, so I ended up saying yes to all those things. And um, but got pregnant, and then when we we were being tracked at about eight or 10 weeks, they said no. Again, I was at the um ultrasound by myself this time, and the technician said, sorry, there's no heartbeat. And you know, they just leave and they never check in on you. And I just want to name that so that for those of us who've sat in these places by ourselves, being told that, I just want to name how devastating that is. And how in that moment, if there could have been a compassionate presence who could have held us in any shape or form, that wouldn't have to be a traumatic experience. Then it would have been a really hard, sad experience where we were held. And that feeling would have been held. But again, I felt helpless. And I felt betrayed by my body, by everything. Um yet uncannily I still had faith. So that that's what's interesting through all of this is faith still continued. I just was like, no, okay, not this time. Okay, God, we'll try again.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

You believed.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Yeah, I I I did believe. I did believe. So we tried again. Again got pregnant. Um, went it's like I felt like now I was stuck in a work, like a loop. Same time, go for ultrasound, same news. Sorry, there's no heartbeat. Um what I didn't realize, and what I want to name for those of us who have repeated losses, is by now your body is living compounded trauma. Because if we haven't processed any of this, which I in my case I hadn't, and I just sort of kept going, your body is reliving everything from all your losses and even before what you didn't know in that moment, over and over. So your biology is literally going into like deeper and deeper, like the abyss of survival, essentially.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

It all attaches, right? That's what How it's been explained to me. Like one trauma brings up Yeah. Everything.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

It's like the tsunami was getting bigger.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

And building.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

I like that. I like that visualization of a tsunami that makes the tofu.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Yeah. And it was i I I would say that that is what's happening inside our biologies, right? Um that one was a hard one too, because when it was time for, like, you know, normally for the first one, I think my body let go of the fetus and I bled. I didn't need any interventions. Second time around, that didn't happen. I was given the pill. And when that happened, I bled so much that I had to be taken to the hospital. And they we were at the point where I might have needed a transfusion because I bled too much. So that was another incident where literally I saw myself fleeting and dying and reliving that I was about to die and cross over because I felt like I was at this teeter-totter of like crossing over again. But something brought me back. So I was here. Lived through it. Still didn't know that there was a tsunami brewing. Yeah. Continued. Tried again. Third one. Got pregnant again. Same drill. Went back to the ultrasound. Same news, same mark every time that that 10-week ultrasound. Sorry, ma'am, there is no heartbeat. That one hit hard because I had just like thought I almost died from the last one. So now it when losing a baby became scary to me because now I'm like, I don't know what to do with my body.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

Like what if or how my how is my body gonna respond?

SPEAKER_01 45:41

Like, yeah, like what's gonna happen now? Like I'm stuck here. So at that point I decided, and the doctors just said it's best that we do a DNC. So I went through a DNC. And that was another traumatizing experience. So I think after that third repetition of it, and by now, this was we were now getting up to Christmas. Um there came a moment where I recognized that I needed to surrender and stop chasing because I felt like I was caught in a chase. And there was like almost like a divine knowing that came through. And it was around Christmas I remember looking at my own self in my own reflection and saying and having a conversation with God and saying, I'm so sorry, I finally understood your message. You're telling me to be grateful with what I do have, um, and not chase. So I get it, I surrender. I surrender, I'm not going to chase. Um, and I told my partner, we're not trying. I'm done. He honored that. And he said, Yeah, if you're done, yes, agreed. Because I I I think that I was the one pushing it anyways. Like those memories are a bit of a blur. Um, however, I feel like it was me driving that anyways, that car. So we stopped trying. Um and I shifted. I started looking and finding joy in what I was having, still not dealing with any of the grief that had that was tsunamiing inside me and all the trauma. And um simultaneously, while all this was happening, Kristen, my body had actually started yelling. By now I had an autoimmune disorder. By now I had chronic inflammation, I had IBS, I had PTSD undiagnosed because I believed that everybody was going to die every time everyone went outside. So my kids would go for a bike ride and I would be praying frantically in the house, thinking, oh my God, please don't kill them. And my partner would fly and I would have panic attacks, and I would be praying like nonstop till the plane landed. And I didn't know that that was what that is. So now I had become this obsessive personality, it felt like, um, who was afraid that everyone's dying in her world. And after that, life went on in this way, with all these, with the body physically also now falling apart, uh, not knowing how to support it, not understanding there's an emotional tsunami inside that is essentially creating these symptoms. And sometime in March, I noticed that I didn't get a period for about a couple of months. And I went to see my naturopath. So by now, the universe gave me a good naturopath. So I went to see a naturopath and he tested me and he said, everything looks fine. Um, and he was gonna put me on a hormone medicine. And he said, But before you take your hormone pill, you know, just for fun, just check if you're pregnant. And I laughed at him and I said, That's hilarious. There's no way I can be pregnant because we're not trying. Um, and you got to try to be pregnant. I said, either that or we will defy physics, and you know, a sperm can live on for three months, and then maybe that is true. Right. So, anyways, I laughed at him. I left that appointment. I came home, and the next morning I was about to take that hormone med, and something inside me said, just do the pregnancy test.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

Might yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

I'm like, you know what? Who cares? Like, I have one lying around. I had a collection of them from my obsessed as one does. Right. Um so I have a collection. I'm like, sure, I'll do it. I pee on the stick, I wait. I'm like not expecting anything. And it tests positive. And it was this moment where I was like, is this a joke? Like, that's weird. Like maybe something's wrong. And I go down and my partner knew I was testing, and I'm like signaling to him from the kitchen. He's in my younger boys. And I'm like, and he's like, I'm like, mm-hmm. And we're both confused, and then we're jumping up and down, and we're dancing, and we're confused, and the kids don't know what we're doing. We're like, what the heck is happening? Are we supposed to be happy? Is this real? Is this fake? Is this a joke? Anyway, so I was like, you know what? Let's just get the blood work done because this could be false. Like this, you know, like let's not get too excited.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

And it's can't be. Like we looked at each other, we did the math, right? Like looked at the calendar, like all those things, and we're like, it doesn't math up, right? So yeah, no. So go get the blood work done, and the blood work's like, yep, your count's pretty high, blah, blah, blah. You're like, I was almost in month three of that pregnancy. Oh my goodness. Right? So what's bizarre, and not bizarre, but what is a miracle here is that the period that I would have been most traumatized to witness was first the 10 mark 10 week mark had passed. Because I had believed that after that.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

That's when you would typically miscarry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

That had passed. I was still carrying a pregnancy without knowing, which seems impossible to me because I'm hyper attuned to my body. I mean, part of my trauma did that. However, this thing went undercover. I couldn't rack it. I couldn't feel it, couldn't connect with this babe, right? And you weren't bleeding. And no, no, no. So this baby is my rainbow baby. He is uh he just turned 11 this year. And that pregnancy was I wish it would have been an easy pregnancy as in internally. But it was another, it was a conscious but a very hard, uh, scary pregnancy from the moment I realized I was pregnant, everything changed. Um, that joy fleeted immediately into panic. I w literally went in back into freeze mode because by then I was teaching after school yoga to children, and I could only do one of those classes per week. That's all I had capacity for. And um I put myself on bed rest because I had nothing in me. Like literally, Kristen, I couldn't breathe in the pregnancy, I couldn't move. Um, it was beyond even running a marathon. It was like I had nothing in me, and every day I would pray to God and say, Why is this happening? Because you've given me this gift, and all I'm wishing for or want to wish for is I wish I didn't have this. Because I don't know how to live with it and be and breathe, because I can't breathe even. So all I knew back then was now I had yoga, mindfulness, meditation, and prayer. So I did all of that.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

And so you were able to tap into some of those things at times.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

Yeah. Like prayer non-stop. Do you find that it helped, or did it just help you manage? Because I find that there are tools that are like, okay, this actually like disintegrates some of this that I'm wearing, but then some of it is just like, no, it's just like getting me through because it's so high right now that it's just like pushing me forward.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

I think that mostly it was keeping me sane.

SPEAKER_00 53:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

Because I think I would have gone, I would have lost it otherwise without it. So it kept me sane enough, despite all the conditions in my body, to exist and hold and carry that pregnancy. Because from what I know and how I know I felt, there wasn't an ounce of energy left in me to give to that pregnancy. So that was a miracle.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

Well, and you still had two, you have two kids on earth that you have to take care of as well. Like you still have to show up as a mother. Like it's really unbelievable to hold all of this at once.

SPEAKER_01 54:08

And yet something was allowing that. So I think that's the miracle of it that I survived that pregnancy because every day I felt like I was going to die in not from fear, but I literally could not breathe. It's like your cells, I could feel my cells so depleted that there was nothing to give. Me, um, even like a breath felt so labored. Like almost like you're not oxygenated enough, type of feeling. It's a very hard feeling to describe. Um, now I understand it in the language of the nervous system and yada yada. But back then it was extremely scary. Could that have been helped? Absolutely. So, for those who are hearing this, and if you relate to this, please know that you don't have to feel that way throughout. There is support because now I understand how to create that safety signal to my brain, because my brain was still playing out the traumas, and it was literally like had burnt out every energy reserve possible, and I didn't know how to tap into creating safety back to find some energy to exist with it. Um, so with all of that, I carried babe till 38 weeks. I chose to be induced at 38 weeks because I couldn't bear the scare or the risk of losing this one. And I asked to be induced. Um, and I had a bit of a scare like two days before the induction. And I think once they saw me, like freaking out, they were like, Yep, okay, let's induce you. Um, if that's what helps you keep feel feel better. So we induced him. And he was born, his name is Kozaima. He's um he was born on 30th September, 2014, 9.01 p.m. And that was another moment when I feel the universe gifted me this babe, and you know, when they put the child on your heart, I had a um profound experience of my, I'm gonna speak energy centers, my heart chakra opening up in a way that I have never felt love and compassion so deep and so vast as the universe as I did in that moment. And so I started calling my Rainbow Baby my Earth Angel of Love because I felt like he broke open all these cementing that happened after all those losses and the years of like my journey and created room for me to now start healing and mothering myself. Because that's when that journey started. The journey of me learning how to mother myself. Uh, shortly after he was born, I went into teacher training for adults and had very profound experiences learning kundalini yoga and meditation that started shifting my energy and started returning and started moving my trauma through my system.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

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SPEAKER_01 59:16

I think that since then the colors of the rainbows have only brightened in my life. It's the best way to describe it.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

Tell me what that means to you.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

It means that I started finding myself again. It means that those colors of the rainbows I was able to bring in to my parts of self, the grieving ones, the ones who felt shame, the ones who felt guilt, the ones who felt didn't belong, the ones who felt like I was a misfit. And on and on, you know, what we call our shadows. In my work, we call them our parts, like these parts of ourselves, younger parts that are disconnected. Um suddenly there was capacity and a knowing in me that guided me to all the work that I needed to do to bring that compassion and love home and bring all these fragments of my soul or myself home and re start reclaiming more and more authentically who I am, which I see today as I am spirit first, who is free, and I'm reclaiming my my birthright of sharing my truth, whatever that means moment to moment, while existing in this physicality. And that was the gift that my rainbow baby, alongside I feel Sakina.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:56

I was just gonna say both.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:58

I think they're a team, and all my other babes who chose me for a short period. I have like a team that works in the ethers who supports me. And almost like the team got activated when Kosaima came Earthside. Like they were there, but I couldn't see them. I couldn't connect to them in that way, but now I can, and now they support and um almost like allow me to channel the work that I don't have words to describe how I hold space, but I know that it's divine and I know it's sacred because it is beyond me. It doesn't come from my cognitions and this limitations.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:40

What does it look like for you to to connect with them?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:45

Um when I connect with them, I'm gonna say every time I hold space for myself and my grieving parts or my hurting and my pain, it is that they have my back and they're guiding me in exactly the ways that I need to be helped. Whether it is connecting me to that right person who will hold space for me, or whether it is whatever it is, however that support shows up, finding other angels, you know, in the earth who are gonna help me doesn't matter. Um it shows up there and and then it shows up in how I hold space for folks. Because when I go into those containers, um I access something that is greater than me. And I feel like that comes from the gifts of from the ethers, like the my team. Um they they want other women to also be nurtured and mothered, and they want me to really step into my mission and own my mission and be and be worse as due. And uh it shows up in how I serve myself and how I serve the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:06

Yeah, because it sounds like they, well, they obviously have had a profound effect on not just how you show up as a mother, how you show up for yourself, how you show up for your family, but your career as well. And it has opened up this like new way of serving women. What does you know serving women look like to you now? You talk about holding a container, how has like your career or how do you serve women on a day-to-day right now?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:33

So essentially, no surprise then that how I serve women on a day-to-day is for the creating and helping them access this innate intelligent healing intelligence that is within them by helping them embody safety in their bodies, not just like words like I am safe, I am supported, but a felt sense of safety to create that container and that space where they can access that within them, the same way that I could unlock the powers that were within me. Um, so that when they're going through the really hard things in life, and usually these women today end up being women who are suffering from chronic illness-related symptoms. They have like debilitating pain, they have uh debilitating fatigue, um, they've lost their quality of life. And they don't know how to live with all these symptoms and be present to life and taking what the goodness that life also has, which is essentially my story.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:46

Because a lot of that, you know, if we're not creating safety, if we're not, you know, feeling safe and we're just kind of feeling miserable bypassing through life, we're missing, we're not just missing out on all like the hard things and avoiding all the hard things, but we're also missing out on those like beautiful moments of joy and connection and like true humanness. What are like some of the things that you know that you do suggest in like creating that safety or that like sense of groundedness for for women?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:16

I think that I'm gonna use the word co-regulation, right? As as humans, we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to regulate and self-regulate all the time. Uh, what I've learned in my healing journey is that actually what we need first is co-regulation. So co-regulation can look like your relationship with, you know, if you if you're faith-based and like divine creator, universe, whatever you name it, call it, and sensing that connection, not just through like our words, but feeling that in our bodies and getting curious about am I able to notice what happens to my breath when I pray? Does that shift at all? Because that will let you know, first of all, is it even safe to occupy your body yet? Right? So it might start with like what happens for me within or around me? And maybe the information is, no, I don't notice the shift in my breath yet while I'm praying. All right. That's information. That's not you're doing it wrong. That's information to then get curious about, okay, so then how do I find a way to feel safe enough to occupy my body again? That's when we need help from someone who can, in a trauma-informed way, help us occupy our body. Because if there's a reason, there's a wise reason why you can't yet connect with your body, don't force it. I really want to say this. It's not you failing, it's very intelligent. That's where we need the co-regulation of another human who can hold and create a container and gently create safe enough experiences for you to start feeling into your body again. So this is not a doing or a push your way through it process or um like Nike just do it. It's actually the other rhythm. It is a rhythm of feeling, can I pace? Can I slow things down enough? Is that even available to me? What is the information here? And then if it's not, who is that safe person I'm gonna connect with who will help me access that state? Because as soon as you access that state, now you can co-regulate. You're gonna go out, maybe you go out in nature and you notice that you just feel a little lighter. Maybe you can't describe it in your body or in your breath yet. Okay, so notice that. Notice what you got. Where is that moment where you feel a little bit alive, where you feel like, oh, that felt nice. You know, maybe it's talking and holding a loved one or your fur baby, and you're like, oh, that was so special. Time flew. That's your clue. Like, hang out there then. Hang out there and get curious about can I just savor this moment? This is what's available to me. Maybe I can't even feel it in my body. It doesn't matter, but I know it feels good. Savor the goodness of the smallest moments you have. And then if you want more and you're like, well, I'd really like to also feel it in my body because safety, remember, is a felt sense. Then seek the support of someone who can, who is trauma-informed, who can hold that space for you and help you occupy and embody in a safe way. Yeah. Because that's the work that I had to learn to do, and that now I have the privilege to hold space for. And I wish there was more awareness around this because it took me years to figure that out.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:58

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I spent I think right now, too, there's like a lot of um you'll see a lot online or like a buzzword is like regulate, regulate, regulate. And you bring up a really good point because get rid of, you know, distractions, feel your feels. Yeah. If you are traumatized, if you are, if it's not safe to feel, like feeling your feels could actually be dangerous. And I always say, like, there's a reason why we distract. There's a reason why watching TV feels good. There's a because you do need a reprieve. Like this, it it does give you a reprieve. Um, so I really like how you brought up, you know, if you're not feeling safe and you're being told to regulate, like that might not be the best idea. It might have to come from somewhere else before, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:48

Yeah, co-regulate. Where actually there's, you know, and if I had the science, I would share that more today. But more and more, the uh we we the key is co-regulation first, then regulation.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:03

I like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:04

Right? Think about our loved ones. As humans, we are an interdependent species. Not just with humans, but with nature and our outside world. This is what I that what it means when we say interdependence. So it's a co-we are co-regulating species. This is not just like a buzzword. This is what how we're designed. And we want to meet our ourselves in the way that we are designed, versus trying to impose these formulas or these buzzwords and force that and feel then like we're failing.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:37

Now, what would you say to the mom that's listening to this that's saying, that's thinking, like, I don't really have a person to co-regulate with? Like, I don't have a dog, my partner isn't even feeling safe, my friends don't get it, my mother doesn't get it. Like, what would you say to that woman who's like feeling I don't have anyone to correct?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:58

I don't have um there are two things. I'm gonna say, first of all, if you're feeling that I just want to hold her for a moment. I know and be with her. And if she's listening, Kristen, if we could take a breath together just to like be like Yes, we hear you.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:19

If you're somewhere listening and you're feeling this, please know that you're not alone.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:32

And then from this place, perhaps the invitation may start as you know, is there something is there a moment where you sit in the sunshine or you hold a warm cup of coffee or tea or something that feels quite pleasant for you. That is just like, you know, when the in a hot day uh you come in and you feel cool, or in a warm like a cold day, you feel the sun shining on your face. Start there. Receive from nature, receive from the everyday what seems like ordinary experiences that are actually I want to say extraordinary, but that warm cup of tea, could you hold it and really feel the warmth emanating in your fingertips? Because that's gonna be a reminder that one, you're not alone, but two, if as you're doing that and you're like, actually, I need more holding, I need more of a container, then look for folks that you feel safe with, right? This is the work that I have the privilege of doing and holding space for women is being a place where we build that skill together from a place of safety and compassion versus doing and pushing and all of those places. So, yes, there is that help available too, if that is accessible. And it can start with what we call the world calls ordinary moments, can become extraordinary. If we can kind of freeze frame and be like, ah, and maybe even talk out loud, like, oh my god, that sun feels so good on my skin right now. I'm gonna be here and I'm gonna receive it. And that light is universal, it's for everyone. You're not alone. If you can feel the sun shining and you can see its rays, you're not alone. There is we're we're connected to all that is, and it's okay if you don't feel it fully right now. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:41

Yeah, sometimes it does take time, right? To even like to even enjoy your coffee again. I remember that was like the first I remember thinking, like, am I ever gonna enjoy my coffee again? Because that was something that was one of those moments where I'm like, I'm human, I enjoy this, I feel like joy and comfort from this coffee. And when that went away, it was like, oh gosh, like how am I ever gonna get back to that?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:06

But it really was the first step was like, oh, my coffee kind of tastes good today. And I'm really going to just like sit in how good this coffee tastes. Yeah. And like one thing we talk about a lot on the podcast and all my work is like how important it is to get in touch with community right now and just like other lost moms, because it really is this level of understanding that can bring that can bring isolation really. Um, because no one is ever going to fully understand what your experience is like and meet you on that level, but other lost moms really are someone, even if they're not trauma-informed, that can at least see you and understand and you can say the crazy things that you're feeling and thinking that feel crazy, and it be received by someone that's like, Yes, you know, I I can get I can understand why you would feel that way. Absolutely. Um would you have any words of you know advice for any of our listeners? Ones that who are, you know, maybe tr maybe they've just lost a baby or maybe they are pregnant again after loss. What words of wisdom? I mean, you've already shared so much, but do you have any last-minute words of wisdom that you would want to share with them?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:35

Yeah, absolutely. I want to close with sharing the science of hope that um brings me a lot of joy, and I want to share the goodness. And maybe some of you, as you're hearing this, have heard this already. Um, so this was shared by Mylene Klass, and Mileen Klass named this uh science that is called micro a microchymerism. What is it called? Microchimerism or chimerism. Um and do you are you aware of that, Kristen? You are, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:14

So that I'll let you explain it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:17

I think that that science can be really special because one thing that in the years of my own journey and holding space for other women who've moved through losses, is we feel like, you know, we did not we we held our babes, and then it's like, and now what do I have with me? There are the memories, and there is like that spirit connection, and and yet there is a feeling like I wish I could carry something. Um, and the science says you do. Uh, because the science explains that when we get pregnant, um, there is an exchange of cells that happens between babe and the mom. And your the mother's kidneys, the mother's heart, the mother's liver um starts like taking in the cells from babe. So if you can imagine for a moment right now, for all of us, and I constantly gotta keep visualizing this, is that all of the babes that I've had, I do have their cells inside me. They're beating in my heart, they're helping my heart beat, they're helping my liver do what they need to do. They're in my gut, they're in me. They're not separate from me. And actually, they do live inside me, even though I can't hold them. They're living inside. And as we sort of sit with that knowing of like every heartbeat is that reminder of like, oh yeah, their beautiful cells are still within me. And then when we have, for those of us who have our rainbow babes, rainbow baby carries your cells and all the other cells of their siblings, here or not here in them. So your rainbow baby is like a collection of all our babes. So when I see Kosaima, I feel like in him is Sakina, the three others that we did not name those beautiful babes, but three other spirit babies who chose me, and my very first spirit baby who chose me at a really young age. Anaziz and Hydra, like Kosaima is like uh carrying everyone's like imprints within him, and so do I. So as a mother, we truly are holding their imprint in us, not just as a word, but as like real. Their cells are vibrating in us and are living within us. And that to me is um it lights me up. I share this with Kozima too, and I'm like, do you know this that you have the cells of all? And his face lights up every time I say that, you know, Sakina also lives inside you. And when I hug him, then I feel like I'm hugging all my babes.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:13

I love that. That's such a beautiful thought, actually. And it makes me excited to, you know, go hug my little girl Senna.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:22

Yes. I just want to say that if folks are curious and want to learn more about the work that I share and the space that I hold, um, I have shared with Kristen a link for a uh complimentary discovery call where you can just hop on and maybe you're just even curious and you don't know exactly what it is that you know you're where the support might look like or how, and that's the purpose of these calls is to have a heart-to-heart and sort of gather in a space and be seen and be held and and explore. And maybe it's the conversation, maybe it is support that you seek, uh, but there that is available. So feel free to take my invitation on that. Um, I also have an Instagram account that I've shared with Kristen called Thrive Holistic Coaching. Uh, that's another place that I share as much as I can to empower women on their healing. Um, so feel free to you know follow here or engage or say hello there. Um, and know that whatever you're doing, you're not alone. There is folks like Kristen, myself, and others who've been on this podcast who too have walked this path and only each of us know how unique it is to us, and yet we are connected by this invisible thread that is sacred, right? There is a community here. Um, and you're not alone. So if you're listening to this and don't even know where to go, let's start with the knowing that you're not alone in this.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:00

It's so true. So true. I think sometimes the pain is so great and so huge that it's almost impossible to realize and recognize that you know other women have felt that too. Yes, and are feeling it with them too.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:16

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:17

Well, I think that's a beautiful place to wrap up. And I just want to say thank you so much for sharing your story, sharing your hearts, your beautiful wisdom and gifts with us. Um, no doubt there are women listening to this that, you know, they are feeling seen and they're feeling heard and they are feeling less alone, right? Yeah. That's the goal.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:39

That is the goal.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:41

Thank you so much, Um all for sharing with us today.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:44

Yeah. Thank you for having me here, Kristen. And for this sacred work that you are creating space for, I just want to honor that as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:52

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:54

So welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:55

If this episode resonated with you, would you mind sharing it with another mother who might need to hear it? Sometimes the smallest act, like sending an episode to a friend or sharing it in your stories, can remind someone they're not alone in their grief or their hope. If you do share, please take at the Rainbow Connection Podcast so we can continue to spread these stories together. Thank you again for tuning in today. And remember, you are never alone. I'll see you in the next episode.