“Learning to Feel Safe Again” — Katie on Miscarriage, Breathwork, and Motherhood After Loss

Katie shares her experience of miscarriage, the emotional impact of early pregnancy loss, and the path that led her to becoming a mother to her two rainbow babies. Through her story, we explore what it means to navigate pregnancy after loss, to reconnect with the body, and to move through grief while still holding space for hope. Katie’s journey into breathwork and yoga nidra is deeply intertwined with her healing, and her work now supports women through fertility, pregnancy, postpartum, and motherhood after loss.

We talk about:

• Experiencing miscarriage in a first pregnancy
• The emotional and physical impact of pregnancy loss
• Navigating grief while continuing to move forward
• Pregnancy after loss and the complexity of holding fear and hope
• Rebuilding trust in the body after miscarriage
• The role of breathwork and nervous system support in healing
• Motherhood after loss and what it looks like day-to-day
• The identity shift that comes with loss and becoming a mother
• Supporting other women through TTC, pregnancy, and postpartum after loss

This episode is a powerful reminder that grief and beauty can coexist — and that birth, even in loss, can absolutely be sacred.

Get to know Katie: 

Katie is a breathwork and yoga nidra facilitator based on Vancouver Island, supporting women through every stage of motherhood — from trying to conceive to postpartum. Her work is deeply rooted in her own lived experience with miscarriage and pregnancy after loss, and she is passionate about helping women reconnect with their bodies, regulate their nervous systems, and feel supported in the messy, complex realities of motherhood. She lives with her husband, their two rainbow babies, and their beloved fur baby.

Instagram: @othermindbreathwork
Website: Othermind.ca

Connect with Kristin:
📍 Website: thedoulalife.ca
🌈 The Haven — Pregnancy After Loss Community Program: thedoulalife.ca/haven
🌸 Mother Like No Other — Loss Mom Community: thedoulalife.ca/mother
📸 Instagram: @the.doula.life

If you enjoyed this episode, please don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review — it helps get these stories and resources into the hands of the women who need them most. And please share it with someone who could use this kind of support. Your support means so much.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I just knew that I had miscarried, but it had been missed. And so he couldn't tell me anything, obviously, because they can't tell you anything, but I just knew. And I was trying so hard to keep it together. You know, my son was three and he I just remember he was like, Mom, like, you know, why are you so sad? Why are you in the bathroom all the time? And like it was just heartbreaking because I felt like such a failure. Like I had let him down. I knew he wanted a sibling. I let my partner down. I let myself down. I let the baby down. I still don't know what happened at like when I had lost this baby. I had no idea or why. I had no answers.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Welcome to the Rainbow Connection. This podcast was designed for mothers who are finding their way through life after loss. Whether you're grieving, trying to conceive again, newly pregnant, or holding hope in your heart for what's to come, this space is for you. Each week you'll hear real and tender stories. Stories of love, heartbreak, healing, and the babies who continue to shape us. I'm your host, Kristen Mundy, a mother, doula, and a woman who's walked this path too. May these conversations remind you that you are not alone, that your baby is never forgotten, and that hope and grief can live here together. Before we begin today's episode, I want to take a moment to talk to you. Just you. If you are a lost mom in any season of this journey, I want you to know that I created something with you in mind. Whether you are newly grieving, trying to conceive again, not sure of what comes next, pregnant after loss, or parenting a living child while still carrying the babies who aren't here. You are welcome. I have a free community called the Dual of Life Community, and it's a space where lost moms can gather without having to explain themselves. A place where you don't have to shrink your grief, you don't have to tone down your hope, and you definitely don't have to pretend like you're okay. Inside, you'll find other women who understand this journey. There are message boards, free workshops, shared stories, and gentle resources. But more than anything, there is connection. It's completely free and it's growing. And it was built to feel like a soft place to land. If your heart has been craving that kind of space, you can join us at thedualalife.ca slash community. I'd love to see you inside. On today's episode of the Rainbow Connection, I'm sitting down with Katie Lister, someone who I know so many of you know very well because she is kind of an OG in the Dual Life community. We have her come in there and lead us through so many of her beautiful offerings pretty often, actually. She is a breathwork and yoga nidra facilitator, a fellow lost mom, and someone whose story is deeply rooted in both heartbreak and in healing, too. Katie shares about her first pregnancy ending in a miscarriage and the long layered journey that followed as she navigated grief, trying to conceive again, and eventually welcoming both of her rainbow babies. Now, this conversation is about what it means to come back into your body after loss, to rebuild that trust, to move through that fear, and to find those moments of safety again. It's about motherhood after loss in its truest form. It's not perfect, it's definitely not linear either, but it is deeply, deeply real. I'm so honored to hold this space with her. She is truly such a gem, and I know if you haven't met her yet, you're going to love her. And I'm just so honored to be able to share her story with you today. Okay, now enough from me. Let's hear from Katie. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Rainbow Connection. Today I'm joined with Katie. Hi, Katie. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. She is going to share all about her motherhood journey and what brought her here today. I have had the pleasure of getting to know Katie over the last few months. We were connected online. She is a beautiful breathwork facilitator and she's done some work inside the Haven and inside of Mother Like No Other. So some of our listeners might know you already. But today, Katie is on the other side of the seat, and she's going to share a little bit more about her story. So, Katie, before you know we do jump into your story, why don't you give us a little bit of an introduction of who you are and what brought you to this podcast today?

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Yeah. Okay. Well, my name is Katie. I have two beautiful rainbow babies and a fur baby. And I am a breathwork and yoga ninja coach. And I I really specialize in helping women through loss or fertility or postpartum or just you know messy motherhood. Um as it is. Yeah. Because that's been my journey. And so that's uh that's my passion.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Katie's coming from lived experience for sure. And that always makes, you know, the coach so much better when they have that personal history with it, right? Well, Katie, we would love to hear more about that motherhood journey. We'd love to hear more about those two beautiful rainbow babies. So wherever you feel comfortable starting, we would love to hold that space for you.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Okay. Thank you so much. Um, and just thank you for giving me the space to chat about it. So, yeah, the motherhood journey journey was not easy. And it started, we're going back about eight years. And my husband and I, you know, we wanted, we weren't married at the time, but we were already like so bonded and we knew we wanted kids together and a whole bunch. We're like, let's have three, four kids, you know, it'll be awesome. And it did not really turn out that way. We um we did get pregnant actually quite easily, and I miscarried my very first pregnancy. And obviously, like my very first experience with pregnancy, like I was so excited, you know, in the your first pregnancy, your first pregnancy test, and you see those little lines, and you're like, Yes, thank God, like I'm gonna be a mom. This is so exciting. You know, all the rush of feelings and excitement. And um, and then two weeks later, like I miscarried, and I was so heartbroken, but my logical brain kicked in and I was like, you know, I know one in four women miscarry. Like, this is just really bad luck for me. So we tried again, got pregnant again. Um, and this was pregnancy with my son, uh, who's now almost seven. And I spent the pregnancy just full of anxiety. Um, because I think because of that first loss. And then he was born, and of course, like the first words that came out of my mouth were like, is he okay? Like I wasn't like, oh yay. I was like, is he okay? Like, tell me he's okay, like white knuckling. Um and of course, he's totally fine and healthy and perfect and amazing. But after that, I found like my mindset just went in the toilet. I was in a deep depression. I was diagnosed with postpartum anxiety and depression. Okay. And I just felt like I completely lost myself. And I was having these really terrifying, intrusive thoughts. Like I didn't want anybody to hold him because I thought they would hurt him. I didn't anyone want anyone to touch him. I thought he would, you know, fall down the stairs, or my mom would take him for walks, and we used to live by the water. And I just had these images of her like falling, tripping and falling, and then the stroller would go off into the water. Or um even silly things like I would be in the shower and I would start imagining him at 15 years old, and he in my head, I would play out the whole situation. Like he would die of a drug overdose, and I was in there like writing his eulogy and just bawling in the shower. And my husband would be like, What's wrong? Like, are you okay? And I'm like, oh my God, like what is wrong with me? Like, this is not normal. And of course, like I didn't, I didn't know what was happening to me. Like at the time I hadn't been diagnosed. It took, it took over a year for me to be diagnosed with postpartum anxiety. And so I was just powering through and I thought I was strong enough to handle it. I didn't want meds. I refused all meds, and I was just like, no, I got this, I got this.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

What was your partner kind of thinking at this point? Was this like a really recognizable thing that he was witnessing, or was he kind of, she's postpartum, this some of this is normal, or what was that like?

SPEAKER_01 9:34

I think he was confused. I thought maybe he told me later that he thought this was just all part of postpartum. And, you know, obviously he was there for me and always check in with me and you know, offer any support, but he didn't really understand what was going on with me either. I didn't understand what was going on with me, and so much of it I just kept inside.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

I was gonna say intrusive thoughts usually stay internal, intrusive thoughts, right? Because some of them are so horrible. I don't like saying crazy, but they're like so Yes. Oh, I felt crazy. Not yourself that you're like, I can't say this out loud. Like, yeah, you're definitely not alone in those thoughts either.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

No, and I know that now, but at the time, I had no idea. I was like, is this motherhood? Like, is this what it's supposed to be like? Like this is horrible. Um and then of course we're like, let's try for another baby, because that's what you do when you're stressed and anxious and everything. But we always wanted lots of kids, and we were, you know, I wasn't a young mom. I had my first at 35. So we were like, let's get on this, let's have another. So then we tried again, and I got pregnant and I miscarried again. So I was like, wow, that's really bad luck. Like, that's two miscarriages now. And then um we tried again and I miscarried again. And that was like a couple of months later. And so at this point, I was like, okay, something is wrong. Like, I don't know what I'm doing. What's wrong with me? And we went to a fertility clinic.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

At this point, because it was your third loss, were your doctors also thinking, like, hey, like maybe we should do some investigations.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

So it was my third loss, but not third in a row. So they told me, Don't worry, I had a good doctor though. My doctor was like, Well, you're only allowed to be referred to a clinic, a fertility clinic, if you've had three losses in a row. And he's like, but like I'm gonna just send you anyway. So I was like, Thank you. Um, because like how that would be awful if you had to do it. I mean that's a stupid rule, right? Right, exactly. Like you had to go through another loss in order to be taken into a fertility clinic.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Well, and then what if you did, you know, bring home a baby and then you went through two more? Like it's just just it's such ridiculous rationale. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

So then we did all the testing and they were like, oh, everything looks fine. Like you look fine. Your AMH is actually really great for your age. Like, we don't know what's wrong with you. So I was like, okay. Like I almost wanted something to be wrong, you know, because then I could at least know, like have some closure, know what it is, and go and fix it. If it if it was fixable. But just to be like, oh, well, we don't know what's wrong, like carry on and try again. It was like, ugh, like it just felt like Russian roulette. So after that, we took a long break, like I think over a year. Um, and then when I and of course, like through all of this, my anxiety and depression just got worse and worse, right? With each loss, I just started feeling like I was just I look back now and I'm like, holy crap, like I wasn't even myself. It all feels like a blur. Like I don't think I saw my friends for years, except for like special occasions, and I don't, I'm I was like a different person. Yeah, just we're not yourself. No, it's like this this haze, this dark cloud over me at all times. And then finally I felt like, okay, I'm ready to try again. We were 38 and we're like, let's do this. We're just we had nothing, you know, no answers from the fertility clinic, but we were like, we're just gonna try anyway. And got pregnant, and um everything kept progressing, and I was like, okay, I didn't usually I had miscarried around like seven or eight weeks, but this time, you know, we passed seven, eight, and I was like, okay, still pregnant. Passed nine, ten, I was like, okay, interesting, still pregnant. Um, or so I thought. And then we got to my 12-week scan. And you know, obviously I was a bundle of anxiety and nerves, and but I was also hopeful because I thought I had, I thought I hadn't miscarried. There had been no signs, there had been no signs of miscarriage, so I was hopeful. And I went in there, and of course, it was like an older male tech, and there's nothing wrong with older male techs, but at that in that moment, I needed a woman, preferably a mother. But he looked at the scan and he's like, Oh. And I'm like, Oh. Yeah. And I I just knew, I just knew that I had miscarried, but it had been missed. And so he couldn't tell me anything, obviously, because they can't tell you anything, but I just knew. And I was trying so hard to keep it together.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

At this point, did you know what a missed miscarriage was? No, I had no idea.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

I just, I could just tell that something was wrong. Um something was wrong. So they sent me to the hospital where they did like another scan and um blood tests and et cetera. And um, they told me that I had missed well, I the baby was not there anymore, past um, at some point along the journey. And so then I had to go and take the abortion pill and prepare to miscarry at home. And that was like probably the worst two days of my life. And just going through all of that and like the pain and the blood, and and my son, you know, my son was three, and he I just remember he was like, Mom, like, you know, why are you so sad? Why are you in the bathroom all the time? And like it was just heartbreaking because I felt like such a failure. Like I had let him down. I knew he wanted a sibling. I had let my partner down, I let myself down, I let the baby down. I still don't know what happened at like when I had lost this baby. I had no idea or why, I had no answers.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

That can be so hard because, like you said, sometimes when you just know what's going on, you can do something different. And just doing something different in itself can be so comforting.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Exactly. To have some sort of reasoning behind all of these losses.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Now, did your care providers, you know, when you did find out that this baby had passed, did they give you any sort of support in what to expect in the upcoming days, taking um, you know, miscaring at home?

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Yeah. So the nurse I saw um who gave me the medication, she was really great. Um and she gave me, you know, she told me what to expect. Um and my maternity doctor did as well, because she had been with me since the beginning. So she knew my hasty. So I did feel really supported in that way, which was nice. Um but nothing can prepare you for for going through something like that. And after that, I just um I was almost furious, like what is wrong? Something is obviously wrong. Like it's not normal. Like I know one in four, but the math, the math ain't mathing. Right. And so we went to another fertility clinic because we really wanted another baby. And I'm like, look, this is the history, this is how many losses we've had. We've already done the testing, you know, two years ago, and this is what they said. Um, and so they're like, okay, let's do it again. Let's try your, let's do your AMH and all the, you know, progesterone and all the tests, and and my husband as well. And they came back and they're like, Yeah, I don't know. Like everything looks fine. And I'm like, well, clearly not doing the right tests, like something something is wrong. So anyway, we left there feeling just like, how could this possibly be? How could there possibly be nothing wrong? The only thing that she gave me was like, well, you know, at your age, like 60% of your eggs are no good. Her words, no good.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

I'd be like, I'd really like to see the you know, study that you're referring to where it tells me that definitively, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Yeah. And also like, what a horrible thing to say to somebody. Yeah, like it's just complete bullshit. Like well, not only is it complete bullshit, but like a lot of those losses happened, you know, when I was 36 and also at 34. So yeah, anyway, I was just like thank you. Yeah, I was just like, how are you in a position of power talking to like very vulnerable when women going through this? But anyway, I digress. So after that, I was like, you know what? I don't think I don't think I want to try again. Like it's too painful, it's too much. Obviously, I'm too old. Like, we're just that's it. We're gonna have one baby, pour all our love into him, and that'll be that. And so that was sort of the path we had chosen. And um, I was trying really hard to accept that we were only gonna have one baby. I'm an only child. I always wanted a big family. So for me, that was a hard pill to swallow to just have one. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with having one. I had a great childhood just being the only one. I got all my parents' love and attention, and it was beautiful. I had the best childhood. But I personally wanted more kids. So having to just to make that decision, like, okay, it's just gonna be one. It just felt like a it just hurt. But I'm I had made the decision. It's like, okay, we're one and done. We got this, let's move on. And then around Christmas time, we were, my husband and I were talking, and we're like, remember back in the day when we were kids and like those big family dinners and Christmases where all your cousins would be there, and your, you know, the big family dinners, and you'd have like your kids' table where you would sit with your siblings and cousins, and it was just like such a big, fun. It's just the best. It's the best. Yeah. And we're like, that's like not gonna be the case for our son. Like, because I don't have siblings, so he doesn't have uh cousins from my side, and my husband has one sister, but she doesn't have any children. It was always just it was always just him alone with all the adults, and I'm like, oh like poor guy. Yeah, I don't know what came over me, but I was just like, you know what? Like, I know there's one more baby. Like I just I know there's one more baby for us. I just know it. Like there's this little voice voice, something here. I mean like I'm here, like I'm here, I want to come through. So I was like, okay, let's just. Let's give it our very last shot. And we were 39. And I was like, honestly, I didn't have expectations. I was like, it's probably not gonna happen. Let's just go for it.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Why not? Right?

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Why not? Um, and I wasn't expecting to get pregnant at all, to be honest, but I did actually very quickly. And I mean, you know, when you've experienced so many losses, when you find out you're pregnant again, it's just like you hold your breath, you're like, oh God, like brace for impact, right? Yeah, just imagining all the things that could go wrong because they have in the past. Like, so I was just like, okay, what do I do? So I signed myself up for weekly acupuncture, and I knew I had to get a hold of my anxiety. I was just, I mean, I was a nervous wreck. I didn't want to acknowledge her, but at the same time, I was like, I want, I was so desperate to hold on to her. Like I would have done anything, like literally anything you name it, I would have done it to keep her. And so I'm like, okay, I need to calm the fuck down. Yes. So I and I read all the benefits of like breath work and meditation and all of that. So I was like, okay, I'm just, I'll try anything. I will try anything. So I carved out a little time for myself, 10 to 15 minutes a day, every day. I put it in my calendar and I'm like, I'm gonna light a candle, I'm gonna play some soft music, and I'm just gonna focus on my breath. And that is what I did. And it took, it was really hard at first because my body just I just didn't feel like a safe place. My body didn't feel safe. I didn't feel safe. My brain was like this chaotic, jumbled mess of thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

It could be really challenging to slow down, right? And to like be with your thoughts and be in your body where you're like, well, if my thoughts in my body have been so dangerous, like why the heck would I want to take it? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

Yeah, exactly. Like my mind, my thoughts, it was not a safe space and it hadn't been for a very, very long time. And I just didn't trust myself. So I literally forced myself to do this. And I didn't like follow a technique or it wasn't even a guided practice. I literally just sat there and I just breathed. And I just focused on the breath coming in and out of my nose, and I focused on the rise and fall of my belly. And that is literally all I did. And I found that I was actually able to calm myself down. I went from like a here to a here. And I was like, okay, I can do this. So I did it every single day, every day. And after a while, I found that my brain was no longer this like chaotic, jumbled mess of crazy thoughts that didn't make any sense to me. I was able to like think more clearly and be more logical and open my heart more. And like I was just, I didn't know what I was doing at the time, but I was just activating my parasympathetic nervous system, right? Because I was no longer living in this state of like constant fight or flight and vigilance. And I was moving into a space of where I could actually like release and breathe and actually just be, which was a very new feeling for me. I hadn't felt like that in in years. So um, yeah, it was a great practice, and I just I just kept coming back to it. And yeah, like I said, at first I didn't want to do it at all. And after a few weeks, it was like the thing that I needed to do. I was like, I need to go do my breath or practice like right now, or I'm gonna lose it. Um I'm getting warm. Can I take this off?

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Yeah, of course. Okay. Okay. Perfect. All right, let me just gather my thoughts back up.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Um so you stopped at saying I needed to do my breath room practice.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Right. Yes. So the thing that I didn't want to do for so long was finally the thing that was like saving me and that felt like my sanctuary. And so then it just became like my daily non-negotiable. And through this process, I finally felt like my walls could come down and I could connect with her. Because I spent that whole time, you know, the first five months of my pregnancy completely disconnected, not only just her, but from myself, from my body, which is a normal response, right? After you've been through so much loss.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Totally. But at the same time, we don't usually want that response, right? Because it's like that push and pull of like, I know my body is doing this as a form of protection, but I don't really want to be protected from her. Like, I want to be able to connect to my baby, right? It's like exactly both.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Yes, both, which is such a weird place to be. Um, I was also having weekly scans. So I was referred to a specialist in town, and they were like, you know, we can set up weekly ultrasounds for you. And I know some women probably think that that would make them more anxious. But for me, I was like, Yes, I want this weekly scan. I need to know. I felt the same too. Yeah. Like you just, I need to know. I have to know. So I had that, and then I had my practice, my daily practice, and my weekly acupuncture, and obviously my partner's support. And then between all of those things, I just finally felt like just really like I had this weight lifted off me. Not completely, but a whole, like a big part of it. And I felt lighter and I felt like I could finally connect with her. And so once I could connect with her, then I felt like I could start. Okay, well, we hadn't done anything for, like, we hadn't bought anything for her, we hadn't thought of a name. Like my husband brought it up, and I was like, no.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

But now too scary.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Everything felt too scary. I didn't buy a single thing until probably about six. Uh I was about six months pregnant, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna buy something. And it was a dress, it was like the sweetest little white summer dress. And I'm like, okay. And then at seven months, I'm like, I think I can maybe talk about names, you know, like little bit by little bit. And I ended up having the end of my pregnancy. It was actually really nice, better than my first. I felt like I felt good, I felt excited. And even though there was still that little part of me that was a bit scared, I just could think more clearly. That's the best way I can describe it. I just felt like my all my jumbled, anxious, wild thoughts from before were more compartmentalized, and I could think them through clearer. And I just felt more calm and present and willing to let her in and willing to open my heart, even if it meant that it would be broken again. And then the day came and she was born, and like honestly, it was the best day of my life. It was like it was a beautiful, beautiful day. And the sun, it was November, but the sun was shining, and we were joking around with the nurses, and it the vibe was just it was light and chill, even though obviously I was in pain because I was having contractions, but um it was just such a great day. And then she was there, and I just I honestly couldn't believe that she was there. Like I was like, Are you really? Are you here? Like, is that you? And she was born just a couple weeks before I turned 40. And so it was like the best, the best birthday present in the whole world. And after she was born, I don't think I put her down for months. I just like I carried her around with me and just stared at her, like constantly, just she was there with me. Like she was my like she was attached to me.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Was your postpartum like vastly different with her versus you know, your son? Oh my god, like night and day.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

With him, I was I was a disaster, like a shell of myself. And with her, I felt a lot more confident and like I was able to let some joy in and be happy. And because of that, I feel like I actually remember more of my postpartum with her, whereas with him, it's all such a blur. And that makes me so sad because like I would do anything to go back and remember him that little and remember those days, but obviously, like I blanked that out for a reason, right? Like those were not happy days for me.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Like super, super hard days, but days like that you would still want to remember, right? Because they're your baby's days, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

Yeah, those are his days, and you know, he was my rainbow baby too.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Totally. Yeah. So that was now a little over two years ago, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Yeah. So she turned two in November, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

What has like life kind of looked like since then? Because obviously now you are a breathwork coach. Yeah. So obviously, breathwork has been very like defining for you, right? Like it has really been life-changing for you. So tell me more about what kind of life looked after she was here. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

So I I feel so silly being like, oh, breath work changed my life, because it seems like such a simple thing. But it really did. And so after she was born, I did my very first sympathetic breathwork practice. So that's like the faster breathing, which can be really powerful and really healing. And I didn't know what to expect. I wasn't sure if I was gonna tell the story, but I'm just gonna tell the story.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Let's hear it.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Okay. So this was this was a guided practice, thanks to MJ. And she, it was like um the idea was that you go up into the higher realms and you meet, you don't know who you're gonna meet, but you meet whoever's open to receiving you, and you get to ask them some questions. So now I am not like I do not believe in God. I have a very practical, logical mindset. And what happened in this practice completely blew me away. And I left honestly, like completely changed. I I went up into the higher realms and I didn't, I had no expectations of who I was gonna see or if I'd even see anybody. But um when I got there, I saw four little kids, all the you know, the babies that I had that I had miscarried at the ages that they would have been in that moment in time. And I just like eyeballed. But it was a very, it was it was happy. I got to like be with them and play with them and just just be together. And then all of a sudden, my like grandmothers who have passed, and my great-grandmothers, and even one of my aunts who has passed, you know, they all sort of appeared around us in a circle. And they were like, Katie, like, you don't need to worry about them anymore. Like, we've got them. You're okay. You can you can move on. And obviously, like that is exactly what I needed to hear. But I couldn't have got there without that practice. And after I had that, I mean, it was just I I left that practice being like, what just happened to me? Like, that was amazing. And I was just crying and crying, but they were happy tears. You know, they were just like, I just felt like I got so much closure from that.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

While we take a quick break, I want to introduce you to The Haven, my signature support program for mothers who are pregnant again after miscarriage, TFMR, stillbirth, or infant loss. This is not just a course. The Haven is a trauma-informed community program that includes weekly live workshops, expert guest speakers, and ongoing support from me, an experienced duula and fellow lost mom, anytime you need it. You'll also receive one-on-one check-ins, guided journaling prompts, full access to my birth course reclaim, and a warm, intimate community of other POL mothers, a place where you can be real, be held, and be reminded that you are not alone in this. Enrollment inside the Haven is now open and support is available to walk with you throughout your entire pregnancy. From the moment you see those two pink lines all the way until your baby is tucked safely into your arms. If you've been longing for a place to feel safe, feel seen, and be supported throughout your pregnancy, then the haven was made for you. You can learn more at the doolalife.ca slash haven. Inside the Haven, your baby is remembered, your voice is honored, and you are fully supported every step of the way. Now, at what point did you like, I know that you were practicing your breath work when you were pregnant. Did you get, did you do your certification, or what kind of like called you to even think of like, maybe I'll try breath work? I know that loss, you know, does crazy things to people. Like we start opening our minds up to things that we probably never would have considered before, or like we're like, if this would help, let's do it. Like when you said I would do anything to get her here, I totally was like nodding my head because we would stand on our heads, like whatever it is that's asked of us, we would do it right. So, what drew you to breath work? When did you start like knowing that you might have something here? You might become a teacher here. Like, tell me about that process, and then we'll get back to the transformative breath work. Yeah. Let's start there.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

So it was when I was um right after I had her, I had reflected back on my daily breathroom practice. And this was just a very calm, parasympathetic, like pregnancy safe, slow, slow breath work.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

What made you want to do that? Like, what made you think to like, oh, I'm pregnant. Maybe I should do some breathwork.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

It was just because my anxiety was so high. I was constantly like I felt like I was vibrating constantly and I couldn't think straight. And I had, you know, read all the things about meditation and breath work being um, you know, just mindfulness in general being good for you and helps you shift into like a parasympathetic state. And I was like, this is well, I'm just gonna try it because I will do anything to keep this baby. I need that parasympathetic state. Like say less. Yeah. And because I was so I was so up here, like just vibrating on this other level. And so I I just I and I don't know if that's the reason why I kept my pregnancy. I have no idea. We never got any answers. But if that was the reason, like I'm forever grateful to that practice and to myself for forcing myself to get quiet and go within and and just be with my thoughts and be with my breath. And so after I had my daughter and I was on maternity leave for a year, I was like, Well, I have a year, I'm gonna go get certified. Yeah, why not? I love this practice. It's like totally it opened me up. And at first I was like, I just want to do it for my own, my own knowledge. But then I did that really transformative practice. Um, I think it was only like maybe a month into the course at that point, and I was like, okay, no, I'm gonna do this like as a thing. Like, I want to start this business and help other women who are going through similar or same experiences because that one breath work was so life-changing. It had like lifted this weight of grief that I had been carrying around for so long, and not just grief, but my mindset around something is wrong with me. I'm broken. And so all of that, it just allowed me to think in a different way and allowed me to heal myself, which was really empowering. And because nobody else can heal you, like yeah, and it's hard to know like what to even do, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:12

Like, what is going to be that missing piece that brings me a little bit closer to healing, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

And the doctors were giving me nothing, so I had to go out and figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

That often unfortunately, that often happens is like you we don't get answers, right? But in our bodies and in our minds, and in our two in our intuition, we we know that like there's something here, there's something that I could be doing. And I think it's like so wise that you felt the need to get quiet, because what's the I mean, the first thing that we usually don't want to do is be quiet and be with ourselves, right? And said you were brave enough to go in, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Yeah, and it it was it was hard. Like I said, it was really hard to do that and to just be alone with my at the time very horrible thoughts about myself and about my body, things that I did not want to think, but I needed to think those thoughts. I needed to work my way through them and parse them out and make sense of them in order to move past them and move through them.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

So that's what the practice did. Yeah, I love that. So now obviously it's had a profound impact on your life, on your journey, on your career. So now what does that look like for you? How are you utilizing that and you know, sharing your gifts and this like healing power that you discovered with other women?

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Yeah. So after I got certified, I wanted to make a membership for people, for women specifically, whether they are trying to conceive, whether they are going through pregnancy after loss or loss or postpartum or any of that. Um, and I head down furiously wrote like several breathwork practices, and they were they were exactly what I wanted to hear when I was going through all of these different things. And I mean, I cried writing these practices because and it was so healing for me too to write them down. Um but yeah, I wrote the practices. I recorded and put them to music and edited them and created this whole membership around breathwork practices. And um, in the portal, there's um it's split up into three sections, but there's the motherhood path is one section. And in there, those are all those really like heart-led practices about trying to conceive pregnancy, pregnancy after loss, going through loss. There's a womb clearing one in there as well. Um and then there's the breathwork for life section. So those are those are a mix of sympathetic and parasympathetic, but there's a lot of nervous system regulation practices and also some things like shedding limiting beliefs. And then in the third section, which is new, is Yoga Nidra. So I also became Yoga Nidra certified, and that is essentially conscious sleep. And your body goes to sleep while your mind stays awake, and you basically peel back the layers of self until you get to your true self, your soul, your center, whatever you want to call it. And there you plant your seed of intention. So it's just another powerful practice that I love just as much as breathwork. And so that's This membership is out there for women who are struggling, either trying to conceive or going through loss. And it's basically the whole thing is like a love letter to my former self, former selves, uh, depending on where I was in that profile. So I feel like I just alchemized all that pain and heartache into something creative and beautiful that can help other women.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

I love that. I mean, that yoga nidra, I feel like I need that right now. That sounds amazing.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

We all do. Three 45 minutes of yoga nidra is equal to three hours of sleep. Oh my God, I definitely do need that.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

Lord knows. I haven't slept in like five years. So I feel that lovely. We're gonna definitely have to do that. Actually, we do have Katie coming in to teach Yoga Nidra in our mother, like no other group, I think in April, right? So I can't wait. I'm not sure if I can wait till April, though, Katie. I might need to get you to come sooner. But it sounds lovely. And um I'm always so amazed when I see women just like you said, alchemizing their pain into something that is so life-giving and healing and so honoring of the journey and of the babies that you know sadly aren't in our arms. I know that they're watching and they're pointing and saying, like, you know, that's my mom. She's changing the world, right? Um it's true though. It's true. Um, I think it's like one of the most powerful ways to really like honor our babies is to allow their little lives to change us, right? And to step into whatever it is that they have shown us or exposed us or taught us, and just like let that be a part of who we are now. And you definitely are a living embodiment of that, right? Of your journey and of your babies. And I think it's just so beautiful. Now, I'm wondering how you know breath work shows up in your your life now, because there's always like that, you know, do as I say, not as I do. I know that sometimes I come on here and I'm guilty of that as well, where I'm like, hey, this is what da-da-da-da-da. And then you're like still struggling in the trenches. But I'd be curious to know how, you know, how does breath work show up in your life now now that you have two kids? Um yeah, I would love to hear about that.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

Yeah, yeah. So differently. Yes, because I've got two kids, one who's turning seven in a couple weeks, and my daughter who's two, and you know, toddlers and a dog. Um, my life is dizzy and full, and I don't have the time and space to be like, okay, I'm gonna set an hour aside for myself and lay out a blanket and like candles and set the mood and do this amazing breathwork journey. No, no, no. I have got like five minutes. I'm gonna sit down. I'm gonna swim. That's real, right? That's real. Or also, I like to my like eye of the storm, or what I like to call it, when life feels so overstimulating as a mom. Like I've got kids screaming and they're running all over the house. There's toys everywhere. My dinner's burning. Yeah. Dinner's burning, like, you know, the drill. Like it's just it's chaos. And so I do this little eye of the storm where I literally just I close my eyes and I imagine a storm like swirling and whirling around my body, but I am still and sturdy like a mountain. And I just slow my breath. It's literally just me slowing down my breath so that I activate that parasympathetic response so that instead of being super reactive and you know, snapping and yelling, which I don't want to do, and I can react from a more grounded place.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

So thank you. And it's keeping me sane, honestly. Um, but that's what my breath work looks like now. And I mean, one day when I have more time, I'll go back to doing those like longer guided journeys. Um, and sometimes I do, like if, you know, after bedtime, you know, and the kids are gone to bed and I'm not totally exhausted, then I'll take maybe 20 or 30 minutes to do a breath work journey.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

But it's I mean, that's real life though, right? And like we have different, we have different stages for different parts of our life, just like exercise. Like sometimes we have enough time for to work out for an hour three times a week. And sometimes we all we can do is like a 15-minute walk. And um, I think once you start like recognizing the benefits, you know, it's gonna ebb and flow with your life, right? Katie did teach me this one um breath work practice, and maybe you can guide us through it before we close off. It's like so simple. And I wish I had it when my daughter was born and I was in the thick of postpartum because I 1000% a few things. First off, I was a very deeply grieving mother. Um, I was very out of my body, disassociated. I really was like, when you say you were in a daze, like that's what I was. I was like just in this thick fog where I couldn't attach to myself. And for good reason, like attaching to myself was a scary thing. And then when I was in postpartum, I was like, I was the overstimulated mom. Like I had postpartum rage, I was just like not myself. But Katie taught us this like practice the humming bee one. Oh, the humming, yeah. I thought you were gonna say something else, but yeah. Oh, the humming bee. But I honestly like I started practicing that because I feel like I could do it anywhere. And usually it was like when my baby was screaming in the backseat and I was driving, and I was like, Oh my gosh, like I this is really, really hard. And maybe you could guide us through that because I feel like I'm gonna say it, I feel like it changed my life because now I do it all the time. Whenever that like stress or disassociation comes up, whenever I know I'm not in my truest self, it takes five minutes and I could do it anywhere and it's free. And it's like a little therapist like in my back pocket. So I would love if you could share that with us.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Sure. So humming, when I mean, when I first started doing it, I know I felt kind of silly. I'm like, oh I'm humming like I'm one of those people. But the reason why I work so well is because humming activates your vagus nerve, which is your direct pathway to your parasympathetic nervous system, and it almost instantly calms you down. And it's really easy to do. So if you are listening, just you know, maybe close your eyes and take a deep breath in through the nose and then hum it out.

SPEAKER_02 51:31

And then you can go again in breath through the nose. And hum it out.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

And while you're doing this, you can play around with the tone of the hum. You can make it higher or lower, louder or quieter. You can even place your hands on your ears like this. And when you do that, you can feel the hum more internally, which draws you into your body even more. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

I I do it so much now that Senna knows that so Senna's my daughter. Senna notices when I do it because she's probably like it's in the middle of like her yelling at me about something. But now, like when I notice that she is even getting heightened, she's also getting into like a stress response. I'll hold her hands and I'll be like, take a deep breath and just go. It's really adorable, but our little ones are watching, right? And I'm the only reason she probably knows how to do that now is because she watches me. But I know before I said it's a five-minute practice, but literally it takes 30 seconds. So I take that back. Like sometimes I do it when I'm driving. I know that if I am going into a really heavy appointment or a really nerve-wracking appointment or a podcast airfield, it could be like just such an amazing way for me to come back to myself. And if some of the people listening who are like, well, what is parasympathetic? Because I know some of us are like, what does that even mean? So they're sympathetic where you're like in flight or fight, farm or freeze. Um, and parasympathetic is like when you're in your rest and digest. So it's like your calmest state, right? Is that the a good way to explain it?

SPEAKER_01 53:32

Yes. And there's nothing inherently wrong with being in a sympathetic state. We're actually supposed to move easily between both states. But when you have trauma and you're living too much in a sympathetic state, then that's where things can be not so great for your health. So trying to bring it back into the over to the parasympathetic side as often as you can to help sort of balance it out.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

Especially if you're, you know, pregnant after loss right now, too, or trying to conceive after loss, because those are two different times where we really want to return to a parasympathetic state or like a state of safety, right? And of calmness. So yeah, such an easy tool, so simple, so powerful. Yeah, it changed my life. So I'm really glad I get to share it with our listeners today. See, Katie, these are your babies showing up. This is your story showing up, and now it's multiplying and going to change even more people, right? That are listening to this and that are in their struggles or in their lost journey. So I just want to thank you so much for, you know, sharing this part of your story, for sharing your gifts, and for giving us all, you know, a little bit more hope and a little bit more validation by listening to you today.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Thank you so much, Kristen. Thank you for giving me the time and space to talk about my story and to talk about those little souls that I lost. And yeah, it's all part of the healing process. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 55:01

You're an amazing mama.

SPEAKER_01 55:03

Oh, so are you.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

If this episode resonated with you, would you mind sharing it with another mother who might need to hear it? Sometimes the smallest act, like sending an episode to a friend or sharing it in your stories, can remind someone they're not alone in their grief or their hope. If you do share, please tag at the Rainbow Connection Podcast so we can continue to spread these stories together. Thank you again for tuning in today. And remember, you are never alone. I'll see you in the next episode.